Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
freeze3192 wrote:More A320s coming or have these been accounted for already?
https://www.avitrader.com/2019/12/03/ga ... -airlines/
fun2fly wrote:The A321XLR is a nice add for UA. Same pilot/crew base as the 319/320?
jayunited wrote:VC10er wrote:Thanks! Yes, many, many European cities have the 764. I know they were delivered around 2000, but inside they do not have a competitive hard product. I know that some high premium routes like Zurich, Geneva will get a refurbished 763, but it seems to me that from a European perspective that UA has a shot at improving their image and reputation. I know Germans who used to hate having to fly UA vs LH have said that with Polaris they no longer dread UA. It makes sense given a 764 is a good size bird, and UA only needs 1 frame per city, that they would have wanted to refurb the 764’s sooner- not later. Unless some of those European cities might get 789’s?
As for the 738 (and 739) both need the new F seat (although the 738 much more. Those F seats are truly dreadful) the 739’s may have a different F seat but they are not so bad. But both have the old and very drab looking interiors. There is nothing about them that’s branded or new looking. The refurbished used A319’s are really very nice inside.
United has to have a ROI (return on investment) on these aircraft interiors. As someone else stated the 764s will still be in the fleet after many of the 763s are retired, it then makes perfect sense to start with the 763s. Also what you may not know is for many of the 763s (especially the older models) the installation of Polaris also coincided with heavy maintenance work. This is also applies to the 764 fleet some of those aircraft will be due for heavy maintenance starting next year and that maintenance will take place while the aircraft is out of service for Polaris/PE. Lets use the 788/9 fleets as another example, many people wondered why UA didn't start with that fleet type? The two main reasons are seats are expensive and UA needed a ROI on those diamond seats on those 788/9s because those seats could not be repurposed and placed on another fleet type also UA is performing scheduled maintenance on the 788/9 fleets while they are out of service for Polaris/PE. If UA were to follow the publics suggestion UA would be waisting money. Combining both the Polaris/PE schedule and the heavy maintenance schedule is the most efficient way to get through this process. Just look at the PW (sUA) 77Es, except for the 4 frames that will be joining the HD domestic fleet UA by the end of this year will have removed all IPTE seats from the sUA 77E international fleet. Also the first 77E that will be joining the HD fleet was flown to HKG a few days ago to begin its modification. This reconfiguration was completed quickly, especially when you take into account UA had to stop the process when they rolled out our PE seats and had to send the first 8 sUA frames back to XMN to install PE seats.
As far as the 738 and 739 fleets UA will get to those fleets but right now we have multiple 763s, 77Es, 752s, A319s, a 788 and soon the first 789 all out of service for some type of cabin modification and refreshment, also the MAX fleet still grounded. In addition to planes out of service for cabin mods and a grounded MAX fleet, we also have a number of planes out of service for paint. What people have to keep in mind is UA still has an airline to run and we operate thousands of flights daily. To maintain the flight schedule it means UA can't do every thing all at once. Don't take what I'm saying the wrong way because you are correct some of the 738s and 739s interiors (first class seats) are in bad shape. UA will get around to refreshing those fleet types it is just going to take time.
UA is pouring hundreds of millions of dollars into the fleet to improve the interiors and in so doing improve our passengers experience however it is going to take time to refresh a fleet with over 770 aircraft.
CALTECH wrote:" United orders 50 Airbus A321XLRs.
Additionally, United will defer the delivery of the Airbus A350s ordered several years ago until 2027 to better align with United's operational needs. By year end 2019, United will have approximately 800 mainline aircraft, a record for the mainline. United maintains a strong orderbook to meet it's growing network and capacity needs and expect to take delivery of over 64 mainline aircraft next year, consisting of 787s, 777-300ERs, 737 MAXs, used A319s and used 737 Next Generation aircraft.
On the widebody side, United has taken delivery of 12 787-8s, 25 787-9s and nine 787-10s, with 13 787-9s and five 787-10s still on order. United has accepted delivery of 18 777-300ERs and expects four more. United currently has 45 A350-900s on order. United also has more than 200 new or used narrowbody aircraft on order. "
Kicking the A-350 can down the road some more.........
cosyr wrote:CALTECH wrote:" United orders 50 Airbus A321XLRs.
Additionally, United will defer the delivery of the Airbus A350s ordered several years ago until 2027 to better align with United's operational needs. By year end 2019, United will have approximately 800 mainline aircraft, a record for the mainline. United maintains a strong orderbook to meet it's growing network and capacity needs and expect to take delivery of over 64 mainline aircraft next year, consisting of 787s, 777-300ERs, 737 MAXs, used A319s and used 737 Next Generation aircraft.
On the widebody side, United has taken delivery of 12 787-8s, 25 787-9s and nine 787-10s, with 13 787-9s and five 787-10s still on order. United has accepted delivery of 18 777-300ERs and expects four more. United currently has 45 A350-900s on order. United also has more than 200 new or used narrowbody aircraft on order. "
Kicking the A-350 can down the road some more.........
Can anyone tell me what the original order was (25 -900's I believe?) and when the first delivery date was supposed to be before any deferments and changes? As a passenger who buys my own tickets, and thus generally flies Y, I'm sad to see the delay of planes that will replace the 10 across 777's, but I understand UA position that there is still life in the 777's. I think it is inevitable that fuel prices will go up again in the future, so I guess UA is just betting that that will happen far enough down the road that more fuel efficient planes are less of a priority than the capital costs of new planes.
cosyr wrote:CALTECH wrote:" United orders 50 Airbus A321XLRs.
Additionally, United will defer the delivery of the Airbus A350s ordered several years ago until 2027 to better align with United's operational needs. By year end 2019, United will have approximately 800 mainline aircraft, a record for the mainline. United maintains a strong orderbook to meet it's growing network and capacity needs and expect to take delivery of over 64 mainline aircraft next year, consisting of 787s, 777-300ERs, 737 MAXs, used A319s and used 737 Next Generation aircraft.
On the widebody side, United has taken delivery of 12 787-8s, 25 787-9s and nine 787-10s, with 13 787-9s and five 787-10s still on order. United has accepted delivery of 18 777-300ERs and expects four more. United currently has 45 A350-900s on order. United also has more than 200 new or used narrowbody aircraft on order. "
Kicking the A-350 can down the road some more.........
Can anyone tell me what the original order was (25 -900's I believe?) and when the first delivery date was supposed to be before any deferments and changes? As a passenger who buys my own tickets, and thus generally flies Y, I'm sad to see the delay of planes that will replace the 10 across 777's, but I understand UA position that there is still life in the 777's. I think it is inevitable that fuel prices will go up again in the future, so I guess UA is just betting that that will happen far enough down the road that more fuel efficient planes are less of a priority than the capital costs of new planes.
x1234 wrote:Can the B787-10 fly 12.5 hours over the Pacific with full payload?
jetmatt777 wrote:Why on earth would united order more of something they have no intention of taking delivery of? Why wouldn't they convert the order now when they signed for the 321's. Their behavior seems like a company that is not ready for the 350, but will be at some point.
cosyr wrote:jetmatt777 wrote:Why on earth would united order more of something they have no intention of taking delivery of? Why wouldn't they convert the order now when they signed for the 321's. Their behavior seems like a company that is not ready for the 350, but will be at some point.
I think they do have the intention to get it. As others have said, the 787 is an ok replacement for the 772's for seat capacity, but I don't think it has the payload that UA might want for cargo and pax on their longest routes. The 359 has closer, and it is more fuel efficient than the 772, but the 772's don't have to be replaced just yet. Personally, I think they're being short sighted, because I think they will want them sooner, but I do believe they will ultimately get them. I don't see the 777x at UA, and someday the 77E/A's have to be retired. UA will not be happy if their largest planes are 787's.
x1234 wrote:UA up-gauges SFO-SYD to 77W and SFO-AKL down to B787-10 today. Can the B787-10 fly 12.5 hours over the Pacific with full payload? I know for a fact seats on SFO-SYD is in high demand as its a tech route and I heard UA wanted the new Polaris product on the SYD flights ASAP.
cosyr wrote:With Munoz handing the reigns to Kirby, do we think this will have any impact on the new Small Narrowbody discussion, or the pilot negotiations?
adamblang wrote:cosyr wrote:With Munoz handing the reigns to Kirby, do we think this will have any impact on the new Small Narrowbody discussion, or the pilot negotiations?
Every time I've heard "the economics for 100 seaters don't work," it's come from Scott Kirby's mouth. Those statements have come in the A220-100 and E190-E2 era.
CriticalPoint wrote:adamblang wrote:cosyr wrote:With Munoz handing the reigns to Kirby, do we think this will have any impact on the new Small Narrowbody discussion, or the pilot negotiations?
Every time I've heard "the economics for 100 seaters don't work," it's come from Scott Kirby's mouth. Those statements have come in the A220-100 and E190-E2 era.
This^^
Kirby has said our hub structure does not support 100seaters. He said they work for Delta due to the mega hub in ATL.
However he wants unlimited 76 seaters, the pilot group is not going to give it to him.
LGeneReese wrote:78J
Suspect N12010 B2 is to PDX for paint.
Deliveries order
N12010
N14011
N29975
N13013
N24976
N29977
N29978
N13014
N24979
N24980
All out of CHS
calpsafltskeds wrote:319:
N853UA sked to exit LCQ 2693/5Dec in 12F config
772:
N787UA entered XMN maint 2738/3Dec, already has Polaris
78X:
N12010 B1 flight today at CHS. 2 UA 78X units on CHS flightline. Couldn't see if N14011 had full paint, but tail is EvoBlu
Re the 78X, wow 61 more seats than the 772E Polaris aircraft. It's closer to the 77W than the 772ER in total seats. I know 44 Polaris is a bit behind the 50 on the 772E and 60 on the 77W.
As to TLV-EWR its about 700 NM farther than TLV-EWR, but maybe winds aren't as bad on SFO-AKL. NOTE: 78X stated range is 6430nm, SFO-AKL is 5663nm (767 more). UA seems to make BOM work with a distance of 6784 and ranges of 772E 7065nm (281 more) and 77W 7370nm (586 more).
jayunited wrote:With so much happening over the past few days I almost for got that today December 05, 2019 is the inaugural flight for UA104 SFO-DEL.
KVH68 wrote:kaitakfan wrote:KVH68 wrote:
N794UA has a return to service date of November 19
N795UA has a return to service date of December 9
On this subject of return to service, how is 6672 looking in HKG? 11/25 still on track?
Computer shows December 17 for 6672
intotheair wrote:PMUA placed an order for 25 A350-900s and 25 787-8s in December 2009. Delivery of the two types set for "between 2016 and 2019." A350s were intended to replace 747s, and 787s were set to replace 767s. 777s were new enough that replacement wasn't being talked about.
https://www.cnbc.com/id/34325447
I tried to find another news writeup that more explicitly stated this, but my reading of that order was that it was a way for Glenn Tilton to signal to CO that UA's balance sheet was finally strong enough that it had the ability to buy its own planes again and not exclusively rely on a merger partner for new planes. Before that order, CO called off merger talks because of PMUA's relatively weak financial health in 2008.
25 frames each for delivery slots so far out from both manufacturers always felt like a placeholder. Keep in mind that the executive team that placed that order was out within less than a year. CO's 787s were already coming online long before PMUA's 787s were, so by the time they were on the property, it was easy to start taking the PMUA deliveries.
Then, the Smisek-led UA upped the order to 35 A350-1000s in June 2013. Delivery set to begin in 2018.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/todayint ... y/2440665/
The order was then increased in September 2017 to 45 A350-900s with delivery from 2022-2027. Note that there was another leadership change: Oscar and Scott were at the helm by this point, and as we all know, UA is now a different airline than it was under Jeff Smisek or Glenn Tilton. This was also the first time UA said that the A350 would be a 777 replacement.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airb ... SKCN1BH1P8
Now, the same team has pushed it out to 2027 and beyond. But if we're being honest, that's honestly the right time to start talking about 777 retirements. By 2027, the oldest 777 will be 32 years old. 2022 always seemed a little too soon to start retiring 777s. To me, that makes a lot more sense than anything else.
I also think there probably was some truth to Rolls Royce being the holdup in UA trying to cancel these.
cosyr wrote:CALTECH wrote:" United orders 50 Airbus A321XLRs.
Additionally, United will defer the delivery of the Airbus A350s ordered several years ago until 2027 to better align with United's operational needs. By year end 2019, United will have approximately 800 mainline aircraft, a record for the mainline. United maintains a strong orderbook to meet it's growing network and capacity needs and expect to take delivery of over 64 mainline aircraft next year, consisting of 787s, 777-300ERs, 737 MAXs, used A319s and used 737 Next Generation aircraft.
On the widebody side, United has taken delivery of 12 787-8s, 25 787-9s and nine 787-10s, with 13 787-9s and five 787-10s still on order. United has accepted delivery of 18 777-300ERs and expects four more. United currently has 45 A350-900s on order. United also has more than 200 new or used narrowbody aircraft on order. "
Kicking the A-350 can down the road some more.........
Can anyone tell me what the original order was (25 -900's I believe?) and when the first delivery date was supposed to be before any deferments and changes? As a passenger who buys my own tickets, and thus generally flies Y, I'm sad to see the delay of planes that will replace the 10 across 777's, but I understand UA position that there is still life in the 777's. I think it is inevitable that fuel prices will go up again in the future, so I guess UA is just betting that that will happen far enough down the road that more fuel efficient planes are less of a priority than the capital costs of new planes.
1989worstyear wrote:
I don't get the logic. If they're getting rid of all of the same-aged 752's by 2024, shouldn't we expect at least some of the 777-200's and ER's to go before 2027?
AVENSAB727 wrote:I hope the 77W makes its way down to IAH soon, I thought IAH-GRU would get this first.
Nicknuzzii wrote:How many 78X’s does UA have on order? I’m seeing both 14 and 25.
TrafficCop wrote:jayunited wrote:With so much happening over the past few days I almost for got that today December 05, 2019 is the inaugural flight for UA104 SFO-DEL.
Which means only 10 days from EWR-CPT!!!!
1989worstyear wrote:cosyr wrote:CALTECH wrote:" United orders 50 Airbus A321XLRs.
Additionally, United will defer the delivery of the Airbus A350s ordered several years ago until 2027 to better align with United's operational needs. By year end 2019, United will have approximately 800 mainline aircraft, a record for the mainline. United maintains a strong orderbook to meet it's growing network and capacity needs and expect to take delivery of over 64 mainline aircraft next year, consisting of 787s, 777-300ERs, 737 MAXs, used A319s and used 737 Next Generation aircraft.
On the widebody side, United has taken delivery of 12 787-8s, 25 787-9s and nine 787-10s, with 13 787-9s and five 787-10s still on order. United has accepted delivery of 18 777-300ERs and expects four more. United currently has 45 A350-900s on order. United also has more than 200 new or used narrowbody aircraft on order. "
Kicking the A-350 can down the road some more.........
Can anyone tell me what the original order was (25 -900's I believe?) and when the first delivery date was supposed to be before any deferments and changes? As a passenger who buys my own tickets, and thus generally flies Y, I'm sad to see the delay of planes that will replace the 10 across 777's, but I understand UA position that there is still life in the 777's. I think it is inevitable that fuel prices will go up again in the future, so I guess UA is just betting that that will happen far enough down the road that more fuel efficient planes are less of a priority than the capital costs of new planes.
Yeah it's weird. The 752's from 94-00 will all be junked in 2024, but the 777's from the same period will be sticking around past 2027. I don't get it.