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seanpmassey
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:08 pm

Frontier is expanding service in Green Bay by adding Orlando as a destination starting in November.

https://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/st ... 268879001/
 
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MKE22
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:46 pm

https://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/n ... chell.html

It appears Volaris is putting and end to it's MKE-GDL flights. I know at one point this went seasonal after the initial 2016 start, but it appears to not be coming back at all. Checked the website and it appears to confirm the same, sorry if this is a repeat post/discussion. I wonder if MKE-MEX might have done better?
 
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AAlaxfan
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:14 am

Sun Country to add seasonal service MSN-LAS/MCO.

https://www.jsonline.com/story/money/20 ... 274691001/
Grumpy. Not a dwarf, not an attitude. It's a lifestyle.
 
lavalampluva
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:25 pm

AAlaxfan wrote:
Sun Country to add seasonal service MSN-LAS/MCO.

https://www.jsonline.com/story/money/20 ... 274691001/


Madison – Las Vegas eff 19DEC19 2 weekly 737-800
SY893 MSN1425 – 1600LAS 738 47
SY894 LAS1650 – 2155MSN 738 47

Madison – Orlando eff 19DEC19 2 weekly 737-800
SY891 MSN0700 – 1045MCP 738 47
SY892 MCO1140 – 1330MSN 738 47

It looks like ferrying in an aircraft in from MSP?
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
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AAlaxfan
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:53 am

lavalampluva wrote:
AAlaxfan wrote:
Sun Country to add seasonal service MSN-LAS/MCO.

https://www.jsonline.com/story/money/20 ... 274691001/


Madison – Las Vegas eff 19DEC19 2 weekly 737-800
SY893 MSN1425 – 1600LAS 738 47
SY894 LAS1650 – 2155MSN 738 47

Madison – Orlando eff 19DEC19 2 weekly 737-800
SY891 MSN0700 – 1045MCP 738 47
SY892 MCO1140 – 1330MSN 738 47

It looks like ferrying in an aircraft in from MSP?

Looks like plane either starts in MCO runs MCO-MSN-LAS-MSN and overnights in MSN then MSN-MCO then a plane and crew change or starts in LAS runs LAS-MSN overnight in MSN then MSN-MCO-MSN-LAS with plane and crew change in either LAS or MCO.
Grumpy. Not a dwarf, not an attitude. It's a lifestyle.
 
dirtymillennial
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:48 pm

The social media accounts for MSN are teasing "an exciting announcement happening on October 23rd."

https://www.instagram.com/p/B3W_9wRAgnF/

Additionally, according to the county's Airport Commission September minutes, the airport's marketing director was recently scheduled to meet with Alaska Airlines.

Could be just a coincidence, but given the PNW vibes of the teaser photo and this recent meeting, perhaps we could see MSN-SEA announced in the coming weeks?
 
DakotaFlyer
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:03 am

I feel UW students could almost fill a daily plane to the PNW.
 
jpetekyxmd80
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:09 am

I don't think thats necessarily a route announcement. "Newest feature"? Could be something like a book store.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
jplatts
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:19 pm

dirtymillennial wrote:
The social media accounts for MSN are teasing "an exciting announcement happening on October 23rd."

https://www.instagram.com/p/B3W_9wRAgnF/

Additionally, according to the county's Airport Commission September minutes, the airport's marketing director was recently scheduled to meet with Alaska Airlines.

Could be just a coincidence, but given the PNW vibes of the teaser photo and this recent meeting, perhaps we could see MSN-SEA announced in the coming weeks?


DakotaFlyer wrote:
I feel UW students could almost fill a daily plane to the PNW.


AS adding MSN-SEA nonstop service on E-175 regional jets is a possibility as MSN-SEA is within the range of E-175 regional jets. AS also already operates E-175 regional jets on its DAL-SEA nonstop nonstop route, which is 48 mi longer than MSN-SEA.

I also previously mentioned in the Alaska Airlines Network Thread that there is likely enough demand between MSN and SEA to fill at least 1 E-175 regional jet per day in each direction.
 
GSPSPOT
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:23 pm

jplatts wrote:
dirtymillennial wrote:
The social media accounts for MSN are teasing "an exciting announcement happening on October 23rd."

https://www.instagram.com/p/B3W_9wRAgnF/

Additionally, according to the county's Airport Commission September minutes, the airport's marketing director was recently scheduled to meet with Alaska Airlines.

Could be just a coincidence, but given the PNW vibes of the teaser photo and this recent meeting, perhaps we could see MSN-SEA announced in the coming weeks?


DakotaFlyer wrote:
I feel UW students could almost fill a daily plane to the PNW.


AS adding MSN-SEA nonstop service on E-175 regional jets is a possibility as MSN-SEA is within the range of E-175 regional jets. AS also already operates E-175 regional jets on its DAL-SEA nonstop nonstop route, which is 48 mi longer than MSN-SEA.

I also previously mentioned in the Alaska Airlines Network Thread that there is likely enough demand between MSN and SEA to fill at least 1 E-175 regional jet per day in each direction.

AS also started SEA-MKE on 175s before upgauging.
Great Lakes, great life.
 
Web
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:07 pm

evank516 wrote:
Trying to fly to MSN in November via DTW, over $1,000 round trip. Robbery. Anyways, I heard something about CWA getting new jetways installed?

CWA is indeed getting new jetbridges. A gate agent there told me the old ones are very unreliable and cold in the winter. First ones are already installed.
 
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knope2001
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:01 pm

It's very odd that an airport would tip off a new route announcement over two weeks in advance. Doesn't seem likely.

Though people want to assume Alaska because of the picture background, that the tweet says Are you READ-y? and has a picture of an open book suggests much more strongly they are hinting about something like a bookstore, a free book exchange program, a read-to-children-about-faraway-places program, or something similar.

MSN-SEA is certainly not impossible -- decent traffic at a high-fare airport and undoubtedly a route Alaska has looked into. But I don't think any signs really point to to that being the 10/23 news.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:37 pm

Maybe I’m behind, but what happened to the aviation museum at MKE? I was through today for the first time in about a year and was bummed to see it gone.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
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knope2001
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:45 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
Maybe I’m behind, but what happened to the aviation museum at MKE? I was through today for the first time in about a year and was bummed to see it gone.


In conjunction with a retailing refresh/remodel project the Mitchell Gallery of Flight is being relocated a few hundred feet south/southwesterly in the terminal. The new space is planned to open in early Spring.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:20 am

knope2001 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
Maybe I’m behind, but what happened to the aviation museum at MKE? I was through today for the first time in about a year and was bummed to see it gone.


In conjunction with a retailing refresh/remodel project the Mitchell Gallery of Flight is being relocated a few hundred feet south/southwesterly in the terminal. The new space is planned to open in early Spring.


Thanks, Knope. That's great news. (I may have gotten an eye roll from my wife when we emerged from Concourse C today and the first thing I said was that I was bummed that it was "gone.") While the main terminal is dated, there's some really cool stuff there like the museum and the bookstore.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
rj777
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:23 am

Did I miss something or when did Allegiant pull out?
 
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knope2001
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:42 am

rj777 wrote:
Did I miss something or when did Allegiant pull out?


Yup -- after launching a couple years back with 10 flights per week they kept trimming with pretty much every new schedule release until finally the fall schedule had no flights. The last year or so their posted loads were decent but rumor had them unhappy with the level of ancillary sales. IMHO it just didn't seem like they had a reason to be here. In the handful of sun markets they targeted Southwest largely owns and Frontier fills the ULCC role well, mostly with daily flights in-season versus Allegiant with 1 or 2 trips per week. The big disappointment is not that we're losing airports like Sanford and Punta Gorda but that Allegiant was probably the best shot at getting Milwaukee some warm-weather seasonal less-than-daily nonstops to places like New Orleans, Charleston, Myrtle Beach, etc.

Cubsrule wrote:
knope2001 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
Maybe I’m behind, but what happened to the aviation museum at MKE? I was through today for the first time in about a year and was bummed to see it gone.


In conjunction with a retailing refresh/remodel project the Mitchell Gallery of Flight is being relocated a few hundred feet south/southwesterly in the terminal. The new space is planned to open in early Spring.


Thanks, Knope. That's great news. (I may have gotten an eye roll from my wife when we emerged from Concourse C today and the first thing I said was that I was bummed that it was "gone.") While the main terminal is dated, there's some really cool stuff there like the museum and the bookstore.


Yeah, the main terminal and some of the concourse vendor areas are getting an overdue upgrade. Ultimately they were looking to reconfigure the main terminal enough to allow for a central checkpoint and have the bulk of vendors accessible to anyone beyond security. That has been put on hold but hopefully the vendor updates will freshen things up a bit, a project they intend to have done a couple of months in advance of the 2020 DNC convention next summer coming to town.
 
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knope2001
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:12 pm

AAlaxfan wrote:
jplatts wrote:
WN has announced in today's schedule extension that it is going to be permanently discontinuing MKE-BOS nonstop service after January 5th, and WN also announced that MKE-LAX is going to be reduced to seasonal nonstop service after January 5th.

Looks like the only reason I would ever have to fly WN to MKE is now going away. Will stick with a legacy with seat choices from now on.


FWIW MKE-LAX is back starting in early March -- still maddening to not have a LAX nonstop for two months but glad to see it's not reduced to a shorter season.

Interestingly when it comes back in March it's planned to be run with 175-seat aircraft both directions on weekdays, including a morning RON operating MKE-LAX too early for any connections except from CLE, and returning late afternoon with no meaningful LAX-MKE-XXX connections for sale. Certainly MKE-LAX has historically seen 738/MAX now and then but it's hardly a given, and often only the bigger aircraft one direction or the other. Often it's just 73G both ways. Now it's possible it's mostly happenstance that they're putting the big aircraft on the route both directions -- it's a big puzzle to route aircraft and capacity optimization doesn't mean you can magically match potential demand on every segment. But in the past this sort of happenstance has not typically resulted in 738/MAX both directions on MKE-LAX, and that morning originator running MKE-LAX with 175 seats seems more deliberate than if it was a middle segment of a long flying day. IF putting 175-seats on a route which had just been seasonally axed is deliberate I could see two reason. (1) It may be competitive to make the city pair less attractive for potential other airlines who may consider jumping in, or (2) they may be going for lower seat-mile costs of the bigger plane in a market where Southwest can easily fill seats with fare-sensitive flyers if the price is right. My gut on MKE-California is that significant amounts of of the smallish, higher-fare business traveler segment favors Delta (MKE-originating) or United (CA-originating) even though they don't fly nonstop. Anybody else in the market, even with nonstop flights, largely gets price sensitive leisure traffic, a market which is rather elastic and price-sensitive with low fare nonstops at ORD always looming. It may not be anything more than coincidence, but it does seem interesting that a long-time year-round market is axed seasonally for the first time and then comes back (in what is decidedly not yet peak season) with 175-seat planes both ways. I wonder if it's competitive or a sign of how they will approach the market next year.
 
jplatts
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:58 pm

knope2001 wrote:
IF putting 175-seats on a route which had just been seasonally axed is deliberate I could see two reason. (1) It may be competitive to make the city pair less attractive for potential other airlines who may consider jumping in, or (2) they may be going for lower seat-mile costs of the bigger plane in a market where Southwest can easily fill seats with fare-sensitive flyers if the price is right. My gut on MKE-California is that significant amounts of of the smallish, higher-fare business traveler segment favors Delta (MKE-originating) or United (CA-originating) even though they don't fly nonstop. Anybody else in the market, even with nonstop flights, largely gets price sensitive leisure traffic, a market which is rather elastic and price-sensitive with low fare nonstops at ORD always looming. It may not be anything more than coincidence, but it does seem interesting that a long-time year-round market is axed seasonally for the first time and then comes back (in what is decidedly not yet peak season) with 175-seat planes both ways. I wonder if it's competitive or a sign of how they will approach the market next year.


WN is likely using the 737-800 instead of the 737-700 on MKE-LAX, even if the extra capacity of the 737-800 isn't needed, due to WN being short on 737-700 planes as a result of the 737 MAX grounding and WN's plans to retire some 737-700 planes in 2020. WN also doesn't currently face nonstop competition on the MKE-LAX route, whereas the WN nonstop routes out of LAX that are being permanently discontinued in 2020 have nonstop service out of LAX on other airlines.

AA adding MKE-LAX nonstop service is also a possibility as AA has more market share at LAX than any other airline. AA could also add nonstop service to MIA, LGA, and DCA from MKE as AA already serves these 3 hubs nonstop from most of the other major Midwestern cities.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:03 pm

knope2001 wrote:
AAlaxfan wrote:
jplatts wrote:
WN has announced in today's schedule extension that it is going to be permanently discontinuing MKE-BOS nonstop service after January 5th, and WN also announced that MKE-LAX is going to be reduced to seasonal nonstop service after January 5th.

Looks like the only reason I would ever have to fly WN to MKE is now going away. Will stick with a legacy with seat choices from now on.


FWIW MKE-LAX is back starting in early March -- still maddening to not have a LAX nonstop for two months but glad to see it's not reduced to a shorter season.

Interestingly when it comes back in March it's planned to be run with 175-seat aircraft both directions on weekdays, including a morning RON operating MKE-LAX too early for any connections except from CLE, and returning late afternoon with no meaningful LAX-MKE-XXX connections for sale. Certainly MKE-LAX has historically seen 738/MAX now and then but it's hardly a given, and often only the bigger aircraft one direction or the other. Often it's just 73G both ways. Now it's possible it's mostly happenstance that they're putting the big aircraft on the route both directions -- it's a big puzzle to route aircraft and capacity optimization doesn't mean you can magically match potential demand on every segment. But in the past this sort of happenstance has not typically resulted in 738/MAX both directions on MKE-LAX, and that morning originator running MKE-LAX with 175 seats seems more deliberate than if it was a middle segment of a long flying day. IF putting 175-seats on a route which had just been seasonally axed is deliberate I could see two reason. (1) It may be competitive to make the city pair less attractive for potential other airlines who may consider jumping in, or (2) they may be going for lower seat-mile costs of the bigger plane in a market where Southwest can easily fill seats with fare-sensitive flyers if the price is right. My gut on MKE-California is that significant amounts of of the smallish, higher-fare business traveler segment favors Delta (MKE-originating) or United (CA-originating) even though they don't fly nonstop. Anybody else in the market, even with nonstop flights, largely gets price sensitive leisure traffic, a market which is rather elastic and price-sensitive with low fare nonstops at ORD always looming. It may not be anything more than coincidence, but it does seem interesting that a long-time year-round market is axed seasonally for the first time and then comes back (in what is decidedly not yet peak season) with 175-seat planes both ways. I wonder if it's competitive or a sign of how they will approach the market next year.


While I hesitate ever to accuse you of over analysis, I think that may be what you are doing here. WN schedules deliberately when it can. MKE-LAX in the current schedule is a thru flight from BNA. Daytime MKE-CLE flights generally have a sensible thru flight and another sensible short connection like BWI or BNA (I see CLE connections as an option about half the time when looking at BNA-MKE, and it’s a really easy place to connect because the CLE operation is so small.) But WN’s network is such that those opportunities are absent in some schedules and WN just treats that as a cost of doing business and keeping frequencies consistent for local passengers. You’ll also see things like city pairs with three dailies and no departure before 1400 in a single schedule period.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
jplatts
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:51 pm

WN is going to be dropping MKE-LGA nonstop service after April 13th, and WN is going to be increasing MDW-LGA to 8 daily nonstops from 6 daily nonstops starting on April 14th.

I can understand WN dropping MKE-LGA nonstop service and increasing MDW-LGA nonstop service since:
(a) WN had lower load factors on MKE-LGA in the January-July 2019 time period than on any of its other nonstop routes out of LGA with the exception of its already-dropped PBI-LGA nonstop route,
(b) the demand is there for extra MDW-LGA nonstop flights with WN pulling out of EWR this Saturday,
and (c) WN needed extra slots that are currently in use on MKE-LGA in order to increase MDW-LGA nonstop service.

DL and UA will be the only carriers serving the NYC market nonstop from MKE once WN discontinues MKE-LGA nonstop service.

DL could upgauge MKE-LGA nonstop service to A220's or 717's from regional jets in order to provide additional capacity on the MKE-NYC route.

AA adding MKE-LGA nonstop service is a possibility if AA has enough slots at LGA since AA already serves LGA nonstop from CAK, ORD, CVG, CLE, CMH, DAY, DTW, IND, MSP, and STL in the Midwest.
 
jplatts
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:44 pm

There is now an article on the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel's website regarding the discontinuation of WN MKE-LGA nonstop service on April 13, 2020, and that article can be found at https://www.jsonline.com/story/money/2019/10/30/southwest-ending-nonstop-flights-between-milwaukee-and-nyc-laguardia/4099270002/.
 
msnav
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:00 pm

MSN had a teaser post on twitter and instagram yesterday mentioning one of their airlines was going to be adding multiple destinations and announcing it November 5th. Any ideas what they could be? My initial thoughts were Delta to Boston and Seattle but I could be completely off base with this one.
 
FSDan
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:01 pm

msnav wrote:
MSN had a teaser post on twitter and instagram yesterday mentioning one of their airlines was going to be adding multiple destinations and announcing it November 5th. Any ideas what they could be? My initial thoughts were Delta to Boston and Seattle but I could be completely off base with this one.


DL to BOS and SEA is a good guess. UA to IAH and IAD seems plausible also. AA doesn't seem likely to me.

You never know, it could be F9 announcing AUS and RDU :duck:
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
jplatts
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:26 pm

msnav wrote:
MSN had a teaser post on twitter and instagram yesterday mentioning one of their airlines was going to be adding multiple destinations and announcing it November 5th. Any ideas what they could be? My initial thoughts were Delta to Boston and Seattle but I could be completely off base with this one.


AS adding MSN-SEA nonstop service on E-175 regional jets is also a possibly since (a) AS has recently added service to other new cities out of SEA, (b) AS already operates E-175 regional jets on its SEA-PDX and DAL-SEA nonstop routes (both of which are longer than MSN-SEA), and (c) there is likely enough O&D between MSN and SEA to easily fill a E-175 regional jet with the PDEW of MSN-SEA being 66 passengers in Q3 2018.
 
seanpmassey
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:51 pm

msnav wrote:
MSN had a teaser post on twitter and instagram yesterday mentioning one of their airlines was going to be adding multiple destinations and announcing it November 5th. Any ideas what they could be? My initial thoughts were Delta to Boston and Seattle but I could be completely off base with this one.


My guess would be someone like SY or F9 adding some less than daily destinations from MSN.
 
tys777
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:18 am

msnav wrote:
MSN had a teaser post on twitter and instagram yesterday mentioning one of their airlines was going to be adding multiple destinations and announcing it November 5th. Any ideas what they could be? My initial thoughts were Delta to Boston and Seattle but I could be completely off base with this one.


SY is announcing new cities on the 5th, going to guess that they are related.
 
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B727skyguy
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Nov 01, 2019 5:24 am

jplatts wrote:
AS adding MSN-SEA nonstop service on E-175 regional jets is also a possibly since (a) AS has recently added service to other new cities out of SEA, (b) AS already operates E-175 regional jets on its SEA-PDX and DAL-SEA nonstop routes (both of which are longer than MSN-SEA), and (c) there is likely enough O&D between MSN and SEA to easily fill a E-175 regional jet with the PDEW of MSN-SEA being 66 passengers in Q3 2018.

I think you mistyped. SEA-PDX is most definitely not longer than MSN-SEA.
 
jplatts
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:07 am

B727skyguy wrote:
I think you mistyped. SEA-PDX is most definitely not longer than MSN-SEA.


I actually meant DAL-PDX instead of SEA-PDX. SEA-PDX is much shorter than DAL-PDX or MSN-SEA is.
 
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illinoisman
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:32 pm

jplatts wrote:
WN is going to be dropping MKE-LGA nonstop service after April 13th

Happy 10 year anniversary at MKE, Southwest! :laughing:
 
BNAMealer
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:37 pm

illinoisman wrote:
jplatts wrote:
WN is going to be dropping MKE-LGA nonstop service after April 13th

Happy 10 year anniversary at MKE, Southwest! :laughing:


Funny, I was just at MKE and they had a table out with a WN lady giving away MKE pins. Found it amusing considering WN’s recent cuts
 
jplatts
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:46 pm

BNAMealer wrote:
illinoisman wrote:
jplatts wrote:
WN is going to be dropping MKE-LGA nonstop service after April 13th

Happy 10 year anniversary at MKE, Southwest! :laughing:


Funny, I was just at MKE and they had a table out with a WN lady giving away MKE pins. Found it amusing considering WN’s recent cuts


Here are the load factors for WN out of MKE in the January 2019 - July 2019 time period:
ATL-MKE - 82.05%
BNA-MKE - 85.91%
BOS-MKE - 71.00% (being dropped in January 2020)
BWI-MKE - 75.30%
CLE-MKE - 63.34%
DAL-MKE - 82.70%
DCA-MKE - 74.74%
DEN-MKE - 87.01%
FLL-MKE - 94.41%
HOU-MKE - 79.82%
LAS-MKE - 88.86%
LAX-MKE - 80.94%
LGA-MKE - 67.75% (being dropped in April 2020)
MCI-MKE - 68.81%
MCO-MKE - 88.53%
MKE-PHX - 89.06%
MKE-RSW - 83.69%
MKE-SAN - 93.01%
MKE-SFO - 89.77%
MKE-STL - 82.47%
MKE-TPA - 88.31%
 
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knope2001
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Nov 01, 2019 8:21 pm

BNAMealer wrote:
illinoisman wrote:
jplatts wrote:
WN is going to be dropping MKE-LGA nonstop service after April 13th

Happy 10 year anniversary at MKE, Southwest! :laughing:


Funny, I was just at MKE and they had a table out with a WN lady giving away MKE pins. Found it amusing considering WN’s recent cuts


It's their 10th anniversary in Milwaukee -- there's a celebration today.

It's worth noting that at the same time LaGuardia is being dropped they are adding second MKE-HOU nonstop and a fourth MKE-PHX, a frequency level they've only had briefly during spring break peak. And they are ramping up weekend Florida flying to an extent they never have done other than during spring break in this mid-April to early June schedule -- peaking on Saturdays with 7 added nonstops each way. The added Florida weekend flying nets to 31 more round trips compared to last year. Even with BOS and LGA going, the seat capacity out of MKE appears to be up about 4% over the prior year in this schedule period.

What we've seen in Milwaukee is a continued -- and nearly complete -- transition from what AirTran envisioned for MKE versus what Southwest does.

First they dismantled the big east-west connecting flow, leading to fewer frequencies to the coasts. Then they pulled the big AirTran feeder market MSP, and now they are finally pulling to major east coast business destinations. If DCA wasn't slot-controlled there would be nonstop MKE-DCA competition and Southwest might well have left that as well. But over the same time they've added 2 nonstops to Houston, 2 nonstops to Nashville, 1 stop to Dallas, 2 nonstops to Cleveland and upped frequency to DEN/PHX/LAS by 3-ish trips. All that expansion, except for the curious add of CLE, are growth to Southwest hubs and four new nonstop destinations. MKE looks much more like a medium Southwest city now than a medium AirTran city.



Not only
 
jplatts
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:17 pm

knope2001 wrote:
What we've seen in Milwaukee is a continued -- and nearly complete -- transition from what AirTran envisioned for MKE versus what Southwest does.

First they dismantled the big east-west connecting flow, leading to fewer frequencies to the coasts. Then they pulled the big AirTran feeder market MSP, and now they are finally pulling to major east coast business destinations. If DCA wasn't slot-controlled there would be nonstop MKE-DCA competition and Southwest might well have left that as well.


WN will continue to serve BWI in the DC/Baltimore market nonstop from MKE, even if WN were to drop MKE-DCA nonstop service. In addition to O&D traffic between MKE and the DC/Baltimore region, WN is also connecting some passengers to some East Coast destinations not served nonstop from MKE through BWI.

Three reasons why WN is still serving DCA nonstop from MKE include (a) WN being the only airline serving the DC/Baltimore market nonstop from MKE, (b) WN having a significant presence in the DC/Baltimore market, and (c) WN having a customer base in both the MKE and DC/Baltimore markets to support MKE-DCA nonstop service.
 
MSNflyer
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 5:31 pm

Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:49 pm

This morning, Sun Country announced twice weekly service from MSN to Boston, Nashville, Newark, Portland (OR), and Seattle, beginning May 2020.

http://msnairport.com/about/news/press_release#10498

Exciting news for Madison!
 
seanpmassey
Posts: 98
Joined: Mon May 23, 2016 3:22 pm

Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:52 pm

Route expansion at Wisconsin airports continues. G4 announced seasonal service between ATW and BNA today.
 
KOMAtose
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:52 pm

Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:20 pm

Midwest Express is planning to launch this January
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:16 am

seanpmassey wrote:
Route expansion at Wisconsin airports continues. G4 announced seasonal service between ATW and BNA today.


Someone explain to me the connection between Nashville and Appleton? .. and seasonal?? Just curious//
 
GSPSPOT
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:52 am

KOMAtose wrote:
Midwest Express is planning to launch this January

Source? Any details?
Great Lakes, great life.
 
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MKE22
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:00 am

GSPSPOT wrote:
KOMAtose wrote:
Midwest Express is planning to launch this January

Source? Any details?


https://biztimes.com/midwest-express-ho ... n-january/
 
UWPAviation
Posts: 148
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:04 am

They are HOPING to launch January. Let’s not say that they are. Still a lot of hurdles to jump through.
 
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AAlaxfan
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:01 am

WN to add additional flights to PHX, BWI and HOU.
Source: https://www.jsonline.com/story/money/20 ... 534361001/
Grumpy. Not a dwarf, not an attitude. It's a lifestyle.
 
HCLF
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Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:16 pm

Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:29 pm

yeogeo wrote:
seanpmassey wrote:
Route expansion at Wisconsin airports continues. G4 announced seasonal service between ATW and BNA today.


Someone explain to me the connection between Nashville and Appleton? .. and seasonal?? Just curious//

G4 is building a focus city in Appleton to popular leisure markets -- much the same way that SY is building a focus city in Madison. G4 now flies from Appleton to Punta Gorda, Orlando/Sanford, Saint Petersburg/Clearwater, Phoenix/Masa, Las Vegas, and soon to Nashville. Enplanements in ATW and GRB have been roughly equal on the big three airlines, but G4's added presence in ATW has propelled enplanements considerably past GRB's in recent years.
 
katwspotter
Posts: 113
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:04 pm

yeogeo wrote:
seanpmassey wrote:
Route expansion at Wisconsin airports continues. G4 announced seasonal service between ATW and BNA today.


Someone explain to me the connection between Nashville and Appleton? .. and seasonal?? Just curious//


Quite simply, there is just a big enough demand for it. Although not well known, Appleton/Green Bay and surrounding Fox Valley area have sort of been given the nickname of Nashville North. Though there are not any big name record label companies in the area, a lot of starting musicians travelling between here and Nashville doing gigs. Country music seems to be fairly popular in Fox Valley as well with yearly events such as Country USA held in Oshkosh and Hodag way up in Rhinelander that consistently draw in big name stars to come and preform. Growing up and living in the Fox Valley, everywhere I go locally, someone is either talking about going or just having recently visited Nashville. We shall see how it all works out for G4 in this market.
"You're cleared to land on the green dot"
 
jreuschl
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:18 pm

Surprised that WN is still hanging onto MKE-CLE with a 62% LF. Seems like anytime WN has a sale, that route is the cheapest flight from MKE.
 
tphuang
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:26 pm

jreuschl wrote:
Surprised that WN is still hanging onto MKE-CLE with a 62% LF. Seems like anytime WN has a sale, that route is the cheapest flight from MKE.

if i remember correctly from my look in WN network, this was one of their top 5 worst routes in the entire network.
 
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knope2001
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Nov 20, 2019 3:09 am

tphuang wrote:
jreuschl wrote:
Surprised that WN is still hanging onto MKE-CLE with a 62% LF. Seems like anytime WN has a sale, that route is the cheapest flight from MKE.

if i remember correctly from my look in WN network, this was one of their top 5 worst routes in the entire network.


January through August 2019 it's 16 from the bottom based on load factor (both ways combined). Here are the bottom 30 for Southwest:

36.2% ,,,,, DAL ,,,,, CRP
39.7% ,,,,, PBI ,,,,, LGA
50.7% ,,,,, SFO ,,,,, ONT
52.5% ,,,,, SJC ,,,,, LGB
54.3% ,,,,, FLL ,,,,, JAX
54.6% ,,,,, HOU ,,,,, CRP
56.4% ,,,,, MSP ,,,,, MCI
58.0% ,,,,, DEN ,,,,, LBB
58.3% ,,,,, GEG ,,,,, BOI
60.6% ,,,,, TPA ,,,,, RIC
61.8% ,,,,, SAN ,,,,, RNO
61.9% ,,,,, ATL ,,,,, BNA
62.3% ,,,,, DAL ,,,,, MAF
62.5% ,,,,, IND ,,,,, MCI
63.1% ,,,,, RNO ,,,,, SJC
63.2% ,,,,, MKE ,,,,, CLE
64.0% ,,,,, CVG ,,,,, MDW
64.1% ,,,,, CMH ,,,,, BOS
64.9% ,,,,, IND ,,,,, BOS
65.0% ,,,,, DAL ,,,,, MEM
65.0% ,,,,, SJC ,,,,, BUR
65.5% ,,,,, ATL ,,,,, DCA
65.6% ,,,,, ATL ,,,,, IAD
65.8% ,,,,, CVG ,,,,, BWI
66.1% ,,,,, DAL ,,,,, TUS
66.5% ,,,,, DAL ,,,,, AMA
66.7% ,,,,, BHM ,,,,, TPA
67.0% ,,,,, HRL ,,,,, AUS
67.0% ,,,,, MAF ,,,,, HOU
67.2% ,,,,, CMH ,,,,, DCA

It's an interesting mix -- some are routes being dumped, others have been around for quite a few years. It's true that MKE-CLE does not run especially full and often has sales, but what may be the saving grace is that it's largely local traffic a opposed to being connection-heavy. Some time back I pulled load factor and average local fares on several shorter hops on the west coast and MKE-CLE wasn't especially out of line for either one. It still may not be breaking even at this point but it's not necessarily an obvious overdue cut, either.
 
jplatts
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:02 pm

WN has extended its schedule to August 10, 2020 today, and here are some changes that I noticed in WN's Summer 2020 flight schedule:

  • MKE-STL increased to 3 daily nonstops from 2 daily nonstops
  • MKE-SFO seasonal nonstop service reduced to weekend-only

The lack of daily nonstop service to the San Francisco Bay Area from MKE is a huge hole, and UA could add MKE-SFO nonstop service in order to fill that void.
 
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knope2001
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Dec 12, 2019 4:39 am

jplatts wrote:
WN has extended its schedule to August 10, 2020 today, and here are some changes that I noticed in WN's Summer 2020 flight schedule:

  • MKE-STL increased to 3 daily nonstops from 2 daily nonstops
  • MKE-SFO seasonal nonstop service reduced to weekend-only

The lack of daily nonstop service to the San Francisco Bay Area from MKE is a huge hole, and UA could add MKE-SFO nonstop service in order to fill that void.


Here's more detail on the summer 2020 schedule versus summer 2019

Notable additions year-over-year:
BWI weekdays goes to 4x, was 3x
ATL weekdays goes to 3x, was 2x
STL weekdays goes to 3x, was 2x
HOU weekdays goes to 2x, was 1x
FLL operates 1x/week (Saturday), did not operate last summer

Notable cuts year-over-year
SFO goes from 7x/week to 2x/week
SAN goes from 1x/week to 0x/week
LGA goes from 58/week to 0/week
BOS goes from 7x/week to 1x/week

The HOU addition and LGA cuts were already known. BOS was also announced as a permanent cut but is being restored for summer as Saturday-only.

Comparing what's schedule for this coming summer versus what was scheduled last summer (including MAX cuts) next summer should net about 4.8% more flights and 12.5% more seats. Part of the seat increase is from about 11 more seats per departure as well. 2019 saw Southwest post big traffic drops versus 2018 so next summer should see a bounce back.

Weekly departures
2019 223
2020 234 +4.8%

Weekly seats
2019 33,030
2020 37,145 +12.5%

Average seats per flight
2019 148.1
2020 159.0

It will be interesting to see if someone comes in to fill the gaps on MKE-California -- hopefully so.
 
msnav
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:41 pm

Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:24 pm

MSN is going to have another destination announcement tomorrow. Not sure what it will be this time but this will bring them to 24 non stop destinations.

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