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MKE22
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:46 pm

https://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/n ... chell.html

It appears Volaris is putting and end to it's MKE-GDL flights. I know at one point this went seasonal after the initial 2016 start, but it appears to not be coming back at all. Checked the website and it appears to confirm the same, sorry if this is a repeat post/discussion. I wonder if MKE-MEX might have done better?
 
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AAlaxfan
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:14 am

Sun Country to add seasonal service MSN-LAS/MCO.

https://www.jsonline.com/story/money/20 ... 274691001/
Grumpy. Not a dwarf, not an attitude. It's a lifestyle.
 
lavalampluva
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:25 pm

AAlaxfan wrote:
Sun Country to add seasonal service MSN-LAS/MCO.

https://www.jsonline.com/story/money/20 ... 274691001/


Madison – Las Vegas eff 19DEC19 2 weekly 737-800
SY893 MSN1425 – 1600LAS 738 47
SY894 LAS1650 – 2155MSN 738 47

Madison – Orlando eff 19DEC19 2 weekly 737-800
SY891 MSN0700 – 1045MCP 738 47
SY892 MCO1140 – 1330MSN 738 47

It looks like ferrying in an aircraft in from MSP?
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
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AAlaxfan
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:53 am

lavalampluva wrote:
AAlaxfan wrote:
Sun Country to add seasonal service MSN-LAS/MCO.

https://www.jsonline.com/story/money/20 ... 274691001/


Madison – Las Vegas eff 19DEC19 2 weekly 737-800
SY893 MSN1425 – 1600LAS 738 47
SY894 LAS1650 – 2155MSN 738 47

Madison – Orlando eff 19DEC19 2 weekly 737-800
SY891 MSN0700 – 1045MCP 738 47
SY892 MCO1140 – 1330MSN 738 47

It looks like ferrying in an aircraft in from MSP?

Looks like plane either starts in MCO runs MCO-MSN-LAS-MSN and overnights in MSN then MSN-MCO then a plane and crew change or starts in LAS runs LAS-MSN overnight in MSN then MSN-MCO-MSN-LAS with plane and crew change in either LAS or MCO.
Grumpy. Not a dwarf, not an attitude. It's a lifestyle.
 
dirtymillennial
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:48 pm

The social media accounts for MSN are teasing "an exciting announcement happening on October 23rd."

https://www.instagram.com/p/B3W_9wRAgnF/

Additionally, according to the county's Airport Commission September minutes, the airport's marketing director was recently scheduled to meet with Alaska Airlines.

Could be just a coincidence, but given the PNW vibes of the teaser photo and this recent meeting, perhaps we could see MSN-SEA announced in the coming weeks?
 
DakotaFlyer
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:03 am

I feel UW students could almost fill a daily plane to the PNW.
 
jpetekyxmd80
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:09 am

I don't think thats necessarily a route announcement. "Newest feature"? Could be something like a book store.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
jplatts
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:19 pm

dirtymillennial wrote:
The social media accounts for MSN are teasing "an exciting announcement happening on October 23rd."

https://www.instagram.com/p/B3W_9wRAgnF/

Additionally, according to the county's Airport Commission September minutes, the airport's marketing director was recently scheduled to meet with Alaska Airlines.

Could be just a coincidence, but given the PNW vibes of the teaser photo and this recent meeting, perhaps we could see MSN-SEA announced in the coming weeks?


DakotaFlyer wrote:
I feel UW students could almost fill a daily plane to the PNW.


AS adding MSN-SEA nonstop service on E-175 regional jets is a possibility as MSN-SEA is within the range of E-175 regional jets. AS also already operates E-175 regional jets on its DAL-SEA nonstop nonstop route, which is 48 mi longer than MSN-SEA.

I also previously mentioned in the Alaska Airlines Network Thread that there is likely enough demand between MSN and SEA to fill at least 1 E-175 regional jet per day in each direction.
 
GSPSPOT
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:23 pm

jplatts wrote:
dirtymillennial wrote:
The social media accounts for MSN are teasing "an exciting announcement happening on October 23rd."

https://www.instagram.com/p/B3W_9wRAgnF/

Additionally, according to the county's Airport Commission September minutes, the airport's marketing director was recently scheduled to meet with Alaska Airlines.

Could be just a coincidence, but given the PNW vibes of the teaser photo and this recent meeting, perhaps we could see MSN-SEA announced in the coming weeks?


DakotaFlyer wrote:
I feel UW students could almost fill a daily plane to the PNW.


AS adding MSN-SEA nonstop service on E-175 regional jets is a possibility as MSN-SEA is within the range of E-175 regional jets. AS also already operates E-175 regional jets on its DAL-SEA nonstop nonstop route, which is 48 mi longer than MSN-SEA.

I also previously mentioned in the Alaska Airlines Network Thread that there is likely enough demand between MSN and SEA to fill at least 1 E-175 regional jet per day in each direction.

AS also started SEA-MKE on 175s before upgauging.
Great Lakes, great life.
 
Web
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:07 pm

evank516 wrote:
Trying to fly to MSN in November via DTW, over $1,000 round trip. Robbery. Anyways, I heard something about CWA getting new jetways installed?

CWA is indeed getting new jetbridges. A gate agent there told me the old ones are very unreliable and cold in the winter. First ones are already installed.
 
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knope2001
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:01 pm

It's very odd that an airport would tip off a new route announcement over two weeks in advance. Doesn't seem likely.

Though people want to assume Alaska because of the picture background, that the tweet says Are you READ-y? and has a picture of an open book suggests much more strongly they are hinting about something like a bookstore, a free book exchange program, a read-to-children-about-faraway-places program, or something similar.

MSN-SEA is certainly not impossible -- decent traffic at a high-fare airport and undoubtedly a route Alaska has looked into. But I don't think any signs really point to to that being the 10/23 news.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:37 pm

Maybe I’m behind, but what happened to the aviation museum at MKE? I was through today for the first time in about a year and was bummed to see it gone.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
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knope2001
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:45 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
Maybe I’m behind, but what happened to the aviation museum at MKE? I was through today for the first time in about a year and was bummed to see it gone.


In conjunction with a retailing refresh/remodel project the Mitchell Gallery of Flight is being relocated a few hundred feet south/southwesterly in the terminal. The new space is planned to open in early Spring.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:20 am

knope2001 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
Maybe I’m behind, but what happened to the aviation museum at MKE? I was through today for the first time in about a year and was bummed to see it gone.


In conjunction with a retailing refresh/remodel project the Mitchell Gallery of Flight is being relocated a few hundred feet south/southwesterly in the terminal. The new space is planned to open in early Spring.


Thanks, Knope. That's great news. (I may have gotten an eye roll from my wife when we emerged from Concourse C today and the first thing I said was that I was bummed that it was "gone.") While the main terminal is dated, there's some really cool stuff there like the museum and the bookstore.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
rj777
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:23 am

Did I miss something or when did Allegiant pull out?
 
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knope2001
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:42 am

rj777 wrote:
Did I miss something or when did Allegiant pull out?


Yup -- after launching a couple years back with 10 flights per week they kept trimming with pretty much every new schedule release until finally the fall schedule had no flights. The last year or so their posted loads were decent but rumor had them unhappy with the level of ancillary sales. IMHO it just didn't seem like they had a reason to be here. In the handful of sun markets they targeted Southwest largely owns and Frontier fills the ULCC role well, mostly with daily flights in-season versus Allegiant with 1 or 2 trips per week. The big disappointment is not that we're losing airports like Sanford and Punta Gorda but that Allegiant was probably the best shot at getting Milwaukee some warm-weather seasonal less-than-daily nonstops to places like New Orleans, Charleston, Myrtle Beach, etc.

Cubsrule wrote:
knope2001 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
Maybe I’m behind, but what happened to the aviation museum at MKE? I was through today for the first time in about a year and was bummed to see it gone.


In conjunction with a retailing refresh/remodel project the Mitchell Gallery of Flight is being relocated a few hundred feet south/southwesterly in the terminal. The new space is planned to open in early Spring.


Thanks, Knope. That's great news. (I may have gotten an eye roll from my wife when we emerged from Concourse C today and the first thing I said was that I was bummed that it was "gone.") While the main terminal is dated, there's some really cool stuff there like the museum and the bookstore.


Yeah, the main terminal and some of the concourse vendor areas are getting an overdue upgrade. Ultimately they were looking to reconfigure the main terminal enough to allow for a central checkpoint and have the bulk of vendors accessible to anyone beyond security. That has been put on hold but hopefully the vendor updates will freshen things up a bit, a project they intend to have done a couple of months in advance of the 2020 DNC convention next summer coming to town.
 
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knope2001
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:12 pm

AAlaxfan wrote:
jplatts wrote:
WN has announced in today's schedule extension that it is going to be permanently discontinuing MKE-BOS nonstop service after January 5th, and WN also announced that MKE-LAX is going to be reduced to seasonal nonstop service after January 5th.

Looks like the only reason I would ever have to fly WN to MKE is now going away. Will stick with a legacy with seat choices from now on.


FWIW MKE-LAX is back starting in early March -- still maddening to not have a LAX nonstop for two months but glad to see it's not reduced to a shorter season.

Interestingly when it comes back in March it's planned to be run with 175-seat aircraft both directions on weekdays, including a morning RON operating MKE-LAX too early for any connections except from CLE, and returning late afternoon with no meaningful LAX-MKE-XXX connections for sale. Certainly MKE-LAX has historically seen 738/MAX now and then but it's hardly a given, and often only the bigger aircraft one direction or the other. Often it's just 73G both ways. Now it's possible it's mostly happenstance that they're putting the big aircraft on the route both directions -- it's a big puzzle to route aircraft and capacity optimization doesn't mean you can magically match potential demand on every segment. But in the past this sort of happenstance has not typically resulted in 738/MAX both directions on MKE-LAX, and that morning originator running MKE-LAX with 175 seats seems more deliberate than if it was a middle segment of a long flying day. IF putting 175-seats on a route which had just been seasonally axed is deliberate I could see two reason. (1) It may be competitive to make the city pair less attractive for potential other airlines who may consider jumping in, or (2) they may be going for lower seat-mile costs of the bigger plane in a market where Southwest can easily fill seats with fare-sensitive flyers if the price is right. My gut on MKE-California is that significant amounts of of the smallish, higher-fare business traveler segment favors Delta (MKE-originating) or United (CA-originating) even though they don't fly nonstop. Anybody else in the market, even with nonstop flights, largely gets price sensitive leisure traffic, a market which is rather elastic and price-sensitive with low fare nonstops at ORD always looming. It may not be anything more than coincidence, but it does seem interesting that a long-time year-round market is axed seasonally for the first time and then comes back (in what is decidedly not yet peak season) with 175-seat planes both ways. I wonder if it's competitive or a sign of how they will approach the market next year.
 
jplatts
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:58 pm

knope2001 wrote:
IF putting 175-seats on a route which had just been seasonally axed is deliberate I could see two reason. (1) It may be competitive to make the city pair less attractive for potential other airlines who may consider jumping in, or (2) they may be going for lower seat-mile costs of the bigger plane in a market where Southwest can easily fill seats with fare-sensitive flyers if the price is right. My gut on MKE-California is that significant amounts of of the smallish, higher-fare business traveler segment favors Delta (MKE-originating) or United (CA-originating) even though they don't fly nonstop. Anybody else in the market, even with nonstop flights, largely gets price sensitive leisure traffic, a market which is rather elastic and price-sensitive with low fare nonstops at ORD always looming. It may not be anything more than coincidence, but it does seem interesting that a long-time year-round market is axed seasonally for the first time and then comes back (in what is decidedly not yet peak season) with 175-seat planes both ways. I wonder if it's competitive or a sign of how they will approach the market next year.


WN is likely using the 737-800 instead of the 737-700 on MKE-LAX, even if the extra capacity of the 737-800 isn't needed, due to WN being short on 737-700 planes as a result of the 737 MAX grounding and WN's plans to retire some 737-700 planes in 2020. WN also doesn't currently face nonstop competition on the MKE-LAX route, whereas the WN nonstop routes out of LAX that are being permanently discontinued in 2020 have nonstop service out of LAX on other airlines.

AA adding MKE-LAX nonstop service is also a possibility as AA has more market share at LAX than any other airline. AA could also add nonstop service to MIA, LGA, and DCA from MKE as AA already serves these 3 hubs nonstop from most of the other major Midwestern cities.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:03 pm

knope2001 wrote:
AAlaxfan wrote:
jplatts wrote:
WN has announced in today's schedule extension that it is going to be permanently discontinuing MKE-BOS nonstop service after January 5th, and WN also announced that MKE-LAX is going to be reduced to seasonal nonstop service after January 5th.

Looks like the only reason I would ever have to fly WN to MKE is now going away. Will stick with a legacy with seat choices from now on.


FWIW MKE-LAX is back starting in early March -- still maddening to not have a LAX nonstop for two months but glad to see it's not reduced to a shorter season.

Interestingly when it comes back in March it's planned to be run with 175-seat aircraft both directions on weekdays, including a morning RON operating MKE-LAX too early for any connections except from CLE, and returning late afternoon with no meaningful LAX-MKE-XXX connections for sale. Certainly MKE-LAX has historically seen 738/MAX now and then but it's hardly a given, and often only the bigger aircraft one direction or the other. Often it's just 73G both ways. Now it's possible it's mostly happenstance that they're putting the big aircraft on the route both directions -- it's a big puzzle to route aircraft and capacity optimization doesn't mean you can magically match potential demand on every segment. But in the past this sort of happenstance has not typically resulted in 738/MAX both directions on MKE-LAX, and that morning originator running MKE-LAX with 175 seats seems more deliberate than if it was a middle segment of a long flying day. IF putting 175-seats on a route which had just been seasonally axed is deliberate I could see two reason. (1) It may be competitive to make the city pair less attractive for potential other airlines who may consider jumping in, or (2) they may be going for lower seat-mile costs of the bigger plane in a market where Southwest can easily fill seats with fare-sensitive flyers if the price is right. My gut on MKE-California is that significant amounts of of the smallish, higher-fare business traveler segment favors Delta (MKE-originating) or United (CA-originating) even though they don't fly nonstop. Anybody else in the market, even with nonstop flights, largely gets price sensitive leisure traffic, a market which is rather elastic and price-sensitive with low fare nonstops at ORD always looming. It may not be anything more than coincidence, but it does seem interesting that a long-time year-round market is axed seasonally for the first time and then comes back (in what is decidedly not yet peak season) with 175-seat planes both ways. I wonder if it's competitive or a sign of how they will approach the market next year.


While I hesitate ever to accuse you of over analysis, I think that may be what you are doing here. WN schedules deliberately when it can. MKE-LAX in the current schedule is a thru flight from BNA. Daytime MKE-CLE flights generally have a sensible thru flight and another sensible short connection like BWI or BNA (I see CLE connections as an option about half the time when looking at BNA-MKE, and it’s a really easy place to connect because the CLE operation is so small.) But WN’s network is such that those opportunities are absent in some schedules and WN just treats that as a cost of doing business and keeping frequencies consistent for local passengers. You’ll also see things like city pairs with three dailies and no departure before 1400 in a single schedule period.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more

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