Supersarestupid
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:51 pm

Sad to see WW go. I'm curious how long they'll leave the bird in BOS (it is there as of this afternoon). The overnight fees Massport will charge has to incentivize them to move it soon I would think. But who makes those decisions, who would do it (WW crew, repo crew, lessor chartered crew, etc), and how quickly?

Also got to see the BA bird today, and we agreed in the tower it wasn't our favorite. I still like the concept and publicity of the retro paint, but BOAC was more my speed.
 
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pitbosflyer
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:10 pm

VS4ever wrote:

True, but they had 3.5m pax last year, those folks are still a market to address, they just won't be getting the ultra low fares that WW were offering.


It's starting to look more and more like WWs model of ultra low cost TATL might not work at all. So if its impossible to fly profitably across the pond for what WW was charging. I doubt we will see anyone fill the void they left. Although WW's failure will likely work IN B6's favor when they launch their TATL routes.
 
iyerhari
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:28 pm

Logan Feb-2019 nos. are out.

Feb-2019 total pax: 2,716,724
Feb-2018 total pax: 2,605,207
AAGR: 4.28%

YTD total pax: 5,426,760
YTD total pax 2018: 5,181,468
AAGR: 4.7%

Feb-19 Feb-18 Difference
Domestic Charter Passenger 2129 3343 -36.31%
Domestic Commuter Passenger 141,433 131,494 7.56%
Domestic Jet Passenger 2,106,221 2,040,473 3.22%
Total Domestic Passengers 2,249,783 2,175,310 3.42%

International
Bermuda/Bahamas/Caribbean 105,874 93,898 12.75%
Canada 56,344 62,955 -10.50%
Central America 33,798 19,125 76.72%
Europe 179,320 166,560 7.66%
Middle East 41,088 40,116 2.42%
South America 9,789 3,325 194.41%
Trans-Pacific 33,836 36,728 -7.87%
Total International passengers 460,049 422,707 8.83%

General Aviation 6,892 7,190 -4.14%
Total Airport pax 2,716,724 2,605,207 4.28%
 
jworks158
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:45 pm

Supersarestupid wrote:
Sad to see WW go. I'm curious how long they'll leave the bird in BOS (it is there as of this afternoon). The overnight fees Massport will charge has to incentivize them to move it soon I would think. But who makes those decisions, who would do it (WW crew, repo crew, lessor chartered crew, etc), and how quickly?

Also got to see the BA bird today, and we agreed in the tower it wasn't our favorite. I still like the concept and publicity of the retro paint, but BOAC was more my speed.


Do you have a picture?
(A359,A343/A346,A332,A319/320/321,A220-100)(B788,B772,B762,B752,B744/B748,B732/B737/B738,B717)(E190,E145)(CRJ100/200, Dash 8-200)(MD-83)
JB,UA(C5,EV,CHQ,AX),AA(EGF,ZW,AX,PT),DL(OH,YX),FL,WN,LH,BA,AF,AZ,IB,VX,CO
https://my.flightradar24.com/theorangetechie
 
jworks158
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:45 pm

Supersarestupid wrote:
Sad to see WW go. I'm curious how long they'll leave the bird in BOS (it is there as of this afternoon). The overnight fees Massport will charge has to incentivize them to move it soon I would think. But who makes those decisions, who would do it (WW crew, repo crew, lessor chartered crew, etc), and how quickly?

Also got to see the BA bird today, and we agreed in the tower it wasn't our favorite. I still like the concept and publicity of the retro paint, but BOAC was more my speed.


Do you have a picture?
(A359,A343/A346,A332,A319/320/321,A220-100)(B788,B772,B762,B752,B744/B748,B732/B737/B738,B717)(E190,E145)(CRJ100/200, Dash 8-200)(MD-83)
JB,UA(C5,EV,CHQ,AX),AA(EGF,ZW,AX,PT),DL(OH,YX),FL,WN,LH,BA,AF,AZ,IB,VX,CO
https://my.flightradar24.com/theorangetechie
 
33lspotter
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:59 pm

pitbosflyer wrote:
It's starting to look more and more like WWs model of ultra low cost TATL might not work at all. So if its impossible to fly profitably across the pond for what WW was charging. I doubt we will see anyone fill the void they left. Although WW's failure will likely work IN B6's favor when they launch their TATL routes.


Genuine question: how is WW's model that much different (if at all) than DY, who is still standing amidst seemingly endless rumors of financial collapse? Is DY doomed too? Maybe that premium cabin really does help the bottom line, or maybe DY is next...
 
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pitbosflyer
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:11 pm

33lspotter wrote:
pitbosflyer wrote:
It's starting to look more and more like WWs model of ultra low cost TATL might not work at all. So if its impossible to fly profitably across the pond for what WW was charging. I doubt we will see anyone fill the void they left. Although WW's failure will likely work IN B6's favor when they launch their TATL routes.


Genuine question: how is WW's model that much different (if at all) than DY, who is still standing amidst seemingly endless rumors of financial collapse? Is DY doomed too? Maybe that premium cabin really does help the bottom line, or maybe DY is next...


I hope DY isn't next....but currently they are only burning money. Their earnings report for 2018 noted that it operated at a loss of 3.8 billion krona (approximately $438 million USD). That's a large loss and is not sustainable long term. Hopefully they can figure out how to be profitable before its too late. I love the competition low cost TATL adds, would be a shame to see it go. .
 
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NickolayAv
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:01 pm

Supersarestupid wrote:
Sad to see WW go. I'm curious how long they'll leave the bird in BOS (it is there as of this afternoon). The overnight fees Massport will charge has to incentivize them to move it soon I would think. But who makes those decisions, who would do it (WW crew, repo crew, lessor chartered crew, etc), and how quickly?

Do you know if the American 737 MAX 8 and the UA MAX 9 are still in Boston? or have they been moved already?

It would be awesome to hear any rumors/updates you hear from BOS, in addition to the rumors given to us by FGITD already.
"If you want to be a millionaire, start with a billion dollars and launch a new airline"-Richard Branson
 
iyerhari
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:29 pm

NickolayAv wrote:
It would be awesome to hear any rumors/updates you hear from BOS, in addition to the rumors given to us by FGITD already.

I travel AA every week and I see a news flash on my AA pop-up related to MAX. They are all grounded.

http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/20 ... fault.aspx

I am sure they maybe sitting in some of the largest AA hangars at CLT, TUL, ORD etc.
 
jworks158
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:50 pm

NickolayAv wrote:
Supersarestupid wrote:
Sad to see WW go. I'm curious how long they'll leave the bird in BOS (it is there as of this afternoon). The overnight fees Massport will charge has to incentivize them to move it soon I would think. But who makes those decisions, who would do it (WW crew, repo crew, lessor chartered crew, etc), and how quickly?

Do you know if the American 737 MAX 8 and the UA MAX 9 are still in Boston? or have they been moved already?

It would be awesome to hear any rumors/updates you hear from BOS, in addition to the rumors given to us by FGITD already.


The UA max 9 is gone! But the WOW 321 and two AA MAX 8s are there. https://twitter.com/WandrMe/status/1111388591035342848
(A359,A343/A346,A332,A319/320/321,A220-100)(B788,B772,B762,B752,B744/B748,B732/B737/B738,B717)(E190,E145)(CRJ100/200, Dash 8-200)(MD-83)
JB,UA(C5,EV,CHQ,AX),AA(EGF,ZW,AX,PT),DL(OH,YX),FL,WN,LH,BA,AF,AZ,IB,VX,CO
https://my.flightradar24.com/theorangetechie
 
AvGeekBOS
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:28 pm

What are the A388 runway/taxiway restrictions at BOS?
 
FGITD
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:12 am

NickolayAv wrote:
Supersarestupid wrote:
Sad to see WW go. I'm curious how long they'll leave the bird in BOS (it is there as of this afternoon). The overnight fees Massport will charge has to incentivize them to move it soon I would think. But who makes those decisions, who would do it (WW crew, repo crew, lessor chartered crew, etc), and how quickly?

Do you know if the American 737 MAX 8 and the UA MAX 9 are still in Boston? or have they been moved already?

It would be awesome to hear any rumors/updates you hear from BOS, in addition to the rumors given to us by FGITD already.


If it's anything like Primera, the crew is likely long gone or very soon to be gone. They hold no obligation to that airplane anymore, and aren't being paid to care for it. Just hope they got some help and didn't have to pay full fare to get home.

The one thing I'm certain of is that massport will definitely find a way to get their money for the space it's taking.

A shame to lose one of the more colourful planes. But E will be getting a lot more colour in the coming days.

Agreed with supers about negus. BOAC better by far.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:46 am

FGITD wrote:
NickolayAv wrote:
Supersarestupid wrote:
Sad to see WW go. I'm curious how long they'll leave the bird in BOS (it is there as of this afternoon). The overnight fees Massport will charge has to incentivize them to move it soon I would think. But who makes those decisions, who would do it (WW crew, repo crew, lessor chartered crew, etc), and how quickly?

Do you know if the American 737 MAX 8 and the UA MAX 9 are still in Boston? or have they been moved already?

It would be awesome to hear any rumors/updates you hear from BOS, in addition to the rumors given to us by FGITD already.


If it's anything like Primera, the crew is likely long gone or very soon to be gone. They hold no obligation to that airplane anymore, and aren't being paid to care for it. Just hope they got some help and didn't have to pay full fare to get home.

The one thing I'm certain of is that massport will definitely find a way to get their money for the space it's taking.

A shame to lose one of the more colourful planes. But E will be getting a lot more colour in the coming days.

Agreed with supers about negus. BOAC better by far.


Brit by birth, and even i agree the negus is not as nice as the BOAC or the landor for that matter.

3 days until another red nose and a blue body start showing up at BOS and 2 weeks more until another blue body shows up with DY - FCO, KL- AMS and KE - ICN... fun times :)

note to supersarestupid: I think we all here want to say thanks for keeping our airport safe everyday, it's a tough job and its takes some serious cahones to deal with the pressure, so from the pax to the tower. Thank you for all that you do.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
dtremit
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:04 am

jworks158 wrote:
The UA max 9 is gone! But the WOW 321 and two AA MAX 8s are there. https://twitter.com/WandrMe/status/1111388591035342848


Pretty sure the WOW 321 was at least moved from that position this evening -- I was looking for it when leaving the airport but couldn't spot it. Did see two AA tails in what I believe was the same position as the MAX 8s in that photo.
 
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tlecam
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:07 pm

Iyerhari- (I think this was you) - have you heard anymore from Massport over the carrier market share at BOS? It was mentioned that DL is pulling ahead of AA, curious to see if that trend continued. I’m sure it will change in the fall when DL adds the slew of ORD/DCA etc...
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
jworks158
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Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:02 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:46 pm

VS4ever wrote:
FGITD wrote:
NickolayAv wrote:
Do you know if the American 737 MAX 8 and the UA MAX 9 are still in Boston? or have they been moved already?

It would be awesome to hear any rumors/updates you hear from BOS, in addition to the rumors given to us by FGITD already.


If it's anything like Primera, the crew is likely long gone or very soon to be gone. They hold no obligation to that airplane anymore, and aren't being paid to care for it. Just hope they got some help and didn't have to pay full fare to get home.

The one thing I'm certain of is that massport will definitely find a way to get their money for the space it's taking.

A shame to lose one of the more colourful planes. But E will be getting a lot more colour in the coming days.

Agreed with supers about negus. BOAC better by far.


Brit by birth, and even i agree the negus is not as nice as the BOAC or the landor for that matter.

3 days until another red nose and a blue body start showing up at BOS and 2 weeks more until another blue body shows up with DY - FCO, KL- AMS and KE - ICN... fun times :)

note to supersarestupid: I think we all here want to say thanks for keeping our airport safe everyday, it's a tough job and its takes some serious cahones to deal with the pressure, so from the pax to the tower. Thank you for all that you do.


Don't forget about Hawaiian!
(A359,A343/A346,A332,A319/320/321,A220-100)(B788,B772,B762,B752,B744/B748,B732/B737/B738,B717)(E190,E145)(CRJ100/200, Dash 8-200)(MD-83)
JB,UA(C5,EV,CHQ,AX),AA(EGF,ZW,AX,PT),DL(OH,YX),FL,WN,LH,BA,AF,AZ,IB,VX,CO
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EK77WNH
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:55 pm

Monday begins the 'summer' season for BA. For comparison purposes, this Sunday BA will field 777-747-787-787 for a total of 933 seats. A week later, a 22% jump in seats to 1,137 as the mix that day will be 777-A380-777-787. I'm figuring the 789 rather than the 788.
Next Trip:
JAL 7-8 BOS-NRT-BOS, 787-9
September
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:08 pm

jworks158 wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
FGITD wrote:

If it's anything like Primera, the crew is likely long gone or very soon to be gone. They hold no obligation to that airplane anymore, and aren't being paid to care for it. Just hope they got some help and didn't have to pay full fare to get home.

The one thing I'm certain of is that massport will definitely find a way to get their money for the space it's taking.

A shame to lose one of the more colourful planes. But E will be getting a lot more colour in the coming days.

Agreed with supers about negus. BOAC better by far.


Brit by birth, and even i agree the negus is not as nice as the BOAC or the landor for that matter.

3 days until another red nose and a blue body start showing up at BOS and 2 weeks more until another blue body shows up with DY - FCO, KL- AMS and KE - ICN... fun times :)

note to supersarestupid: I think we all here want to say thanks for keeping our airport safe everyday, it's a tough job and its takes some serious cahones to deal with the pressure, so from the pax to the tower. Thank you for all that you do.


Don't forget about Hawaiian!


Now that's colorful :)

of course we also have VS LHR Part II with their am flight coming (thanks to NickolayAv for posting that one in a different thread), I guess Red on a VS bird is better than Eurowhite!
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
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tlecam
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:22 pm

KLM starts on Sunday, 3/31!
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
Supersarestupid
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:26 pm

33lspotter wrote:

From the outside of the tower it certainly seems that way. I flew on G-XLEB BOS-LHR the first spring it was here (2017) and I remember being confused as to why we had to wait 15-20 minutes in position on 15R before we started our takeoff roll. Then I thought more about it and (I believe you all had arrivals going to 4R and 4L with departures from 9) I thought "man, must be hard to find a window between the arrivals and other departures." I saw similar occurrences on a number of other A380 departure days as well, as it seems 15R gets used pretty much every time for A380 takeoffs, the exception being when 27 arrivals/33L departures are in use and necessitate a taxi out to the far end of the field. Someone else opined that it might be BA trying to stay aligned with their slot arrival time (and so waiting on 15R was their prerogative) but it seemed to me more of an ATC thing that was/is unavoidable. Would be curious to get your insight.


There's a lot of things that factor in. The taxi from the E10-E12 gates is super quick and easy. So if the wind is halfway decent (I've even seen BA take 15 knot tailwinds off 15R), and we're not landing or departing 33L (opposite direction operations are highly restricted now, plus there's a lot of wake turbulence issues caused by a Super ODO), 15R makes the most sense. That does two things: 1) Keeps us from having to restrict operations on other movement areas to taxi the A380 anywhere else. 2) Doesn't always give the crew time to be fully ready when they get there (see last paragraph). In the latter case, we will often have them "Line up and wait," even if they aren't ready or even if we're not ready for them, so that Ground control can have access to the taxiways again. Keep in mind that the Signature FBO, which is where all of the business jets and GA airplanes park is just NW of L taxiway near the approach end of 15R and the A380 sitting on L blocks both routes in and out.

Per Massport, the A380 can only use 4R/22L or 15R/33L for arrival and departure without a lot of other coordination. But back to your specific situation, if we were indeed on 4/9 (Landing 4R/4L and departing 9 - with aircraft who request a longer runway generally being issued 4R, sometimes 15R): Yes, there's the issue of needing a big enough gap on both finals (4L/4R). The other things that come into play are wake turbulence: If we have flow times (which happens a lot based on our position on the East Coast), we may need to prioritize the 9 departures to make them work. Once the A380 rolls, it's a 3 minute delay for 9 departures. If there were to have been a heavy departing 9 that rotated prior to the 15R intersection, that's a 2 minute delay for the A380. The other big thing that can influence it is local procedures and coordination. After the ugly runway incursion in 2005 with Aer Lingus departing 15R and US Airways departing 9 simultaneously, one mitigation is that the Local Control East (LCE) who works 4R and 9 in that configuration cannot give a release to Local Control West (LCW) who works 4L (and 15R) if they have anyone in position on Runway 9. Since we don't land on 9 (at least haven't in years due to the tall buildings of downtown Boston), we generally line up directly behind every departure as they roll. So you have to have pre-plan with your fellow controller to skip a hole or two if they want to depart 15R.

Factoring that in, 15-20 minutes is probably on the longer side, but very possible, especially in the busier summer traffic season. I have never had a BA ask for a delay to wait for a slot time at LHR. They occasionally say they're "awaiting our final figures" or "aren't ready in the back," which could all be related to a LHR slot program, but those things are typically said by other air carriers in less "proper English". In fact, just like all of the internationals that come and go in the mid-afternoon to late evening hours, BA has to wait on a gate a fair bit. However, I'm generally impressed with their timings and how we'll frequently check their gate status as the inbound shows up on radar (maybe 10 minutes away), notice it's occupied, but the outbound will push back before or as the inbound is landing. Aer Lingus is also really good about vacating a gate just in time "like ships passing in the night" as I like to think of it.
 
FGITD
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:26 pm

Supersarestupid wrote:
33lspotter wrote:

From the outside of the tower it certainly seems that way. I flew on G-XLEB BOS-LHR the first spring it was here (2017) and I remember being confused as to why we had to wait 15-20 minutes in position on 15R before we started our takeoff roll. Then I thought more about it and (I believe you all had arrivals going to 4R and 4L with departures from 9) I thought "man, must be hard to find a window between the arrivals and other departures." I saw similar occurrences on a number of other A380 departure days as well, as it seems 15R gets used pretty much every time for A380 takeoffs, the exception being when 27 arrivals/33L departures are in use and necessitate a taxi out to the far end of the field. Someone else opined that it might be BA trying to stay aligned with their slot arrival time (and so waiting on 15R was their prerogative) but it seemed to me more of an ATC thing that was/is unavoidable. Would be curious to get your insight.


However, I'm generally impressed with their timings and how we'll frequently check their gate status as the inbound shows up on radar (maybe 10 minutes away), notice it's occupied, but the outbound will push back before or as the inbound is landing. Aer Lingus is also really good about vacating a gate just in time "like ships passing in the night" as I like to think of it.


Pains me to think of how many times I've called the massport comms center at -5 from departure and told them we need another 10 minutes, while looking at 6 containers yet to be loaded and missing 100 pax.

BA to their credit, run a great operation in BOS. But they do have the luxury of what is essentially their own gate.

Also saw WOW got moved over by DHL. Shame to see them basically put in the corner.
 
33lspotter
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!

Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:05 am

Supersarestupid wrote:
There's a lot of things that factor in. The taxi from the E10-E12 gates is super quick and easy. So if the wind is halfway decent (I've even seen BA take 15 knot tailwinds off 15R), and we're not landing or departing 33L (opposite direction operations are highly restricted now, plus there's a lot of wake turbulence issues caused by a Super ODO), 15R makes the most sense. That does two things: 1) Keeps us from having to restrict operations on other movement areas to taxi the A380 anywhere else. 2) Doesn't always give the crew time to be fully ready when they get there (see last paragraph). In the latter case, we will often have them "Line up and wait," even if they aren't ready or even if we're not ready for them, so that Ground control can have access to the taxiways again. Keep in mind that the Signature FBO, which is where all of the business jets and GA airplanes park is just NW of L taxiway near the approach end of 15R and the A380 sitting on L blocks both routes in and out.

That very much makes sense — I can see why it would make sense to send them off to 15R versus clog up GA and business aircraft. Regardless, I did not know about the protocol for line up and wait, but, again, totally get why that is practical.

Interesting point about ODO which I have only seen a few times at BOS (usually night ME3 heavies going during barren spells). A few years ago I heard on LiveATC a Speedbird 747 pilot on the morning flight (BA238) ask for 15R when BOS was running 27/33L and he was promptly told no. He understood, and there was no fuss, but that was the morning flight on a Sunday, seemingly pretty calm all across the field. I imagine such a request would be even more likely to be rebuffed in the evening when it is busy.

Supersarestupid wrote:
Per Massport, the A380 can only use 4R/22L or 15R/33L for arrival and departure without a lot of other coordination. But back to your specific situation, if we were indeed on 4/9 (Landing 4R/4L and departing 9 - with aircraft who request a longer runway generally being issued 4R, sometimes 15R): Yes, there's the issue of needing a big enough gap on both finals (4L/4R). The other things that come into play are wake turbulence: If we have flow times (which happens a lot based on our position on the East Coast), we may need to prioritize the 9 departures to make them work. Once the A380 rolls, it's a 3 minute delay for 9 departures. If there were to have been a heavy departing 9 that rotated prior to the 15R intersection, that's a 2 minute delay for the A380. The other big thing that can influence it is local procedures and coordination. After the ugly runway incursion in 2005 with Aer Lingus departing 15R and US Airways departing 9 simultaneously, one mitigation is that the Local Control East (LCE) who works 4R and 9 in that configuration cannot give a release to Local Control West (LCW) who works 4L (and 15R) if they have anyone in position on Runway 9. Since we don't land on 9 (at least haven't in years due to the tall buildings of downtown Boston), we generally line up directly behind every departure as they roll. So you have to have pre-plan with your fellow controller to skip a hole or two if they want to depart 15R.

I can see why two controllers working the given runways adds some complexity. Did not know about the wake turbulence times — I had an idea that there were certain clearances, but those figures provide some good context. Particularly if 9 departures are held up by 3 minutes, it makes sense that an A380 departure from 15R must be managed.

Supersarestupid wrote:
Factoring that in, 15-20 minutes is probably on the longer side, but very possible, especially in the busier summer traffic season. I have never had a BA ask for a delay to wait for a slot time at LHR. They occasionally say they're "awaiting our final figures" or "aren't ready in the back," which could all be related to a LHR slot program, but those things are typically said by other air carriers in less "proper English". In fact, just like all of the internationals that come and go in the mid-afternoon to late evening hours, BA has to wait on a gate a fair bit. However, I'm generally impressed with their timings and how we'll frequently check their gate status as the inbound shows up on radar (maybe 10 minutes away), notice it's occupied, but the outbound will push back before or as the inbound is landing. Aer Lingus is also really good about vacating a gate just in time "like ships passing in the night" as I like to think of it.

Yeah, they do seem to have the gate switching between the departing 212 (generally a 744 or A380) and arriving 203 (generally a 777). Sample size may not be the biggest, but I've only seen a handful of times where 212 hasn't been ready by the time 203 has arrived.

Really impressive analysis overall. Thank you!
 
tomaheath
Posts: 561
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:30 am

Supersarestupid wrote:
33lspotter wrote:

From the outside of the tower it certainly seems that way. I flew on G-XLEB BOS-LHR the first spring it was here (2017) and I remember being confused as to why we had to wait 15-20 minutes in position on 15R before we started our takeoff roll. Then I thought more about it and (I believe you all had arrivals going to 4R and 4L with departures from 9) I thought "man, must be hard to find a window between the arrivals and other departures." I saw similar occurrences on a number of other A380 departure days as well, as it seems 15R gets used pretty much every time for A380 takeoffs, the exception being when 27 arrivals/33L departures are in use and necessitate a taxi out to the far end of the field. Someone else opined that it might be BA trying to stay aligned with their slot arrival time (and so waiting on 15R was their prerogative) but it seemed to me more of an ATC thing that was/is unavoidable. Would be curious to get your insight.


There's a lot of things that factor in. The taxi from the E10-E12 gates is super quick and easy. So if the wind is halfway decent (I've even seen BA take 15 knot tailwinds off 15R), and we're not landing or departing 33L (opposite direction operations are highly restricted now, plus there's a lot of wake turbulence issues caused by a Super ODO), 15R makes the most sense. That does two things: 1) Keeps us from having to restrict operations on other movement areas to taxi the A380 anywhere else. 2) Doesn't always give the crew time to be fully ready when they get there (see last paragraph). In the latter case, we will often have them "Line up and wait," even if they aren't ready or even if we're not ready for them, so that Ground control can have access to the taxiways again. Keep in mind that the Signature FBO, which is where all of the business jets and GA airplanes park is just NW of L taxiway near the approach end of 15R and the A380 sitting on L blocks both routes in and out.

Per Massport, the A380 can only use 4R/22L or 15R/33L for arrival and departure without a lot of other coordination. But back to your specific situation, if we were indeed on 4/9 (Landing 4R/4L and departing 9 - with aircraft who request a longer runway generally being issued 4R, sometimes 15R): Yes, there's the issue of needing a big enough gap on both finals (4L/4R). The other things that come into play are wake turbulence: If we have flow times (which happens a lot based on our position on the East Coast), we may need to prioritize the 9 departures to make them work. Once the A380 rolls, it's a 3 minute delay for 9 departures. If there were to have been a heavy departing 9 that rotated prior to the 15R intersection, that's a 2 minute delay for the A380. The other big thing that can influence it is local procedures and coordination. After the ugly runway incursion in 2005 with Aer Lingus departing 15R and US Airways departing 9 simultaneously, one mitigation is that the Local Control East (LCE) who works 4R and 9 in that configuration cannot give a release to Local Control West (LCW) who works 4L (and 15R) if they have anyone in position on Runway 9. Since we don't land on 9 (at least haven't in years due to the tall buildings of downtown Boston), we generally line up directly behind every departure as they roll. So you have to have pre-plan with your fellow controller to skip a hole or two if they want to depart 15R.

Factoring that in, 15-20 minutes is probably on the longer side, but very possible, especially in the busier summer traffic season. I have never had a BA ask for a delay to wait for a slot time at LHR. They occasionally say they're "awaiting our final figures" or "aren't ready in the back," which could all be related to a LHR slot program, but those things are typically said by other air carriers in less "proper English". In fact, just like all of the internationals that come and go in the mid-afternoon to late evening hours, BA has to wait on a gate a fair bit. However, I'm generally impressed with their timings and how we'll frequently check their gate status as the inbound shows up on radar (maybe 10 minutes away), notice it's occupied, but the outbound will push back before or as the inbound is landing. Aer Lingus is also really good about vacating a gate just in time "like ships passing in the night" as I like to think of it.

Thank you for the information very interesting.
 
jsteeves3
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:11 am

 
factsonly
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:44 am

tlecam wrote:
KLM starts on Sunday, 3/31!


Inaugural KLM service to Boston:

- arr. 6.30pm KL 617 Boston (BOS / KBOS) AIRBUS A330-300 KLM - PH-AKA
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:27 pm

Flew CX 811 last night in F ( using AA miles of course).

Only myself and one other person in F. J appeared full and was high on the US originating end. I couldn't tell you about the Y load.

Also saw a few military travelling in J. Would they be going to TPE? I didn't seem them in HKG immigration.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
Supersarestupid
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:08 am

factsonly wrote:
tlecam wrote:
KLM starts on Sunday, 3/31!


Inaugural KLM service to Boston:

- arr. 6.30pm KL 617 Boston (BOS / KBOS) AIRBUS A330-300 KLM - PH-AKA


They actually did a water salute and the KLM pilots opened the windows waving the American and Dutch flags to commemorate the inaugural service! I haven't ever seen the water cannons since I've been here over two years now, aside from a YouTube video of LH flying in the A350 for the first time.
 
jworks158
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:25 pm

Supersarestupid wrote:
factsonly wrote:
tlecam wrote:
KLM starts on Sunday, 3/31!


Inaugural KLM service to Boston:

- arr. 6.30pm KL 617 Boston (BOS / KBOS) AIRBUS A330-300 KLM - PH-AKA


They actually did a water salute and the KLM pilots opened the windows waving the American and Dutch flags to commemorate the inaugural service! I haven't ever seen the water cannons since I've been here over two years now, aside from a YouTube video of LH flying in the A350 for the first time.


Do you have any pictures?

Picture Boston was able to take a picture of it landing from his the top floor of his house: https://twitter.com/pictureboston/status/1112491060691914755 then gov baker commented on his post "You are clearly the best photographer of airplanes evah!"

The BOS official account posted a pretty crappy photo of the the front of the A330 with the flags out of the window. Surprisingly it was not a stock photo which is what they typically post. https://twitter.com/BostonLogan/status/1112493554079883264
(A359,A343/A346,A332,A319/320/321,A220-100)(B788,B772,B762,B752,B744/B748,B732/B737/B738,B717)(E190,E145)(CRJ100/200, Dash 8-200)(MD-83)
JB,UA(C5,EV,CHQ,AX),AA(EGF,ZW,AX,PT),DL(OH,YX),FL,WN,LH,BA,AF,AZ,IB,VX,CO
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FGITD
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:31 pm

I got myself a nice position to watch the KL arrival right by 12. I'd post the pictures I took, but I've no idea how to. Last water salute I remember was Qatar.

Great to see the summer schedules being put to use. And today is the first BA 380 of the year.
 
iyerhari
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:02 pm

tlecam wrote:
Iyerhari- (I think this was you) - have you heard anymore from Massport over the carrier market share at BOS? It was mentioned that DL is pulling ahead of AA, curious to see if that trend continued. I’m sure it will change in the fall when DL adds the slew of ORD/DCA etc...

Per Massport, DL is number 2 at BOS both in terms of pax and ops. B6 is ahead of them and DL has ways to catch-up. Knowing DL, they are an aggressive airline.

I think history is repeating itself at BOS similar to JFK. AA never could catch-up DL and B6 and permanently ceded their top positions at JFK. Maybe they do not care and that's fine at BOS.
 
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pitbosflyer
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:31 pm

iyerhari wrote:
tlecam wrote:
Iyerhari- (I think this was you) - have you heard anymore from Massport over the carrier market share at BOS? It was mentioned that DL is pulling ahead of AA, curious to see if that trend continued. I’m sure it will change in the fall when DL adds the slew of ORD/DCA etc...

Per Massport, DL is number 2 at BOS both in terms of pax and ops. B6 is ahead of them and DL has ways to catch-up. Knowing DL, they are an aggressive airline.

I think history is repeating itself at BOS similar to JFK. AA never could catch-up DL and B6 and permanently ceded their top positions at JFK. Maybe they do not care and that's fine at BOS.


I think we are going to continue seeing AA only trying to protect the flow to its other hubs and some premium transcon action thrown in. AA doesn't seem interested in jumping into the fray with B6 and DL whatsoever. They seem content letting the oneworld partners handle international connections and running lots of frequencies to their other hubs. The way they have dropped the remaining regional flying without much of a fight is pretty telling. Although B6 and DL on BOS-PHL now is pretty interesting.

Unrelated but I also noticed in the OAG thread that DL had to push back the start of their new routes because the new gates for Southwest are taking alittle longer than expected.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:07 pm

https://news.delta.com/more-internation ... d-partners

"Delta also plans by 2020 the expansion of one of its Delta Sky Clubs, including new showers, expanded seating and a reimagined food and beverage area"

"The last 24 hours have brought two new international flights to Boston Logan International Airport, thanks to Delta joint venture partners KLM and Virgin Atlantic — setting the stage for an exciting year of growth and expansion for Delta in the Northeast.​"

"We've been eyeing Boston for a long time and it makes sense, with our Delta joint venture, to start service there now," said Korean Air's Vice President of Marketing John Jackson. "Delta is growing fast in Boston and adding an Asia flight will help them solidify their position as Boston's #1 global airline."
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:26 pm

Flew in on DL2591 this morning. That must have been the fastest I've ever flown a TCON route, just barely over 4.5 hours. The winds must have been furious up above.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL ... /KSEA/KBOS
Visiting other airports like SEA makes me appreciate how good we have it here at BOS even though some times I feel like we complain too much. The last time I was in Seattle must have been 15 years ago and that terminal feels like it hasn't seen any remodeling work in a lot longer than that. The Delta side of the terminal and the international area in particular are appallingly shabby and cramped. Air side isn't particularly better.
 
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Dieuwer
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:56 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
https://news.delta.com/more-international-flying-comes-boston-thanks-delta-and-partners



New routes include Amsterdam, London-Heathrow, Lisbon, Edinburgh and Seoul


Calling AMS a "new route" is stretching the truth beyond recognition... :roll:
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:00 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
https://news.delta.com/more-international-flying-comes-boston-thanks-delta-and-partners



New routes include Amsterdam, London-Heathrow, Lisbon, Edinburgh and Seoul


Calling AMS a "new route" is stretching the truth beyond recognition... :roll:


or LHR for that matter.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
iyerhari
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:44 pm

VS4ever wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
https://news.delta.com/more-international-flying-comes-boston-thanks-delta-and-partners



New routes include Amsterdam, London-Heathrow, Lisbon, Edinburgh and Seoul


Calling AMS a "new route" is stretching the truth beyond recognition... :roll:


or LHR for that matter.

It's ok to claim more afterall it is only 2 routes vs. a slew of large number of adds?
 
hinckley
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:00 pm

adamh8297 wrote:
Flew CX 811 last night in F ( using AA miles of course). Only myself and one other person in F. J appeared full and was high on the US originating end. I couldn't tell you about the Y load.


I flew 811 in F last week (also AA miles). F was completely full, as was J. This flight has got to be hugely profitable for CX. You've got to wonder whether a second (A359? 4x/week?) CX rotation is in BOS's future. You've also got to wonder why so many airlines were asleep at the wheel for so long, not seeing/understanding BOS-Asia demand.

On a separate note, I was hugely disappointed in the CX F experience. I've flown 811 several times now in J and see little advantage in the tired F cabin.
 
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Dieuwer
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:08 pm

Seems like CX is leaving money on the table by giving seats away to "Award Squatters" ;)
 
tjerome
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:26 pm

iyerhari wrote:
I think history is repeating itself at BOS similar to JFK. AA never could catch-up DL and B6 and permanently ceded their top positions at JFK. Maybe they do not care and that's fine at BOS.


There's no way DL can turn their operation at BOS into something even remotely similar to JFK unless there is a major growth in terminal infrastructure at BOS. That won't be happening anytime soon.
 
iyerhari
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:31 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Seems like CX is leaving money on the table by giving seats away to "Award Squatters" ;)

I do not think you get eligible for upgrades using AA FF on a CX flight even if one is booked on the corresponding AA codeshare flight. I am an AA Platinum Pro and used to be exec Platinum last year but never got that chance on the BA JV flight even if I had booked on the AA flight operated by BA. Domestic is fine but international do not think happens. Maybe I am wrong.
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:12 am

I'm a proud "award squatter" especially for longhaul J and F.

I agree with Hinckley on J versus F. I would have taken it if available. I care about the flat bed more than anything. I was originally booked on BOS-LAX-HKG using an AA anytime award but I read on pointsguy and other sites to check for CX availability two weeks out. I saved 30k miles and got a slight upgrade to F.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
hinckley
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:13 am

I booked CX F only because a J award was not available. My experience is that AA partners like CX provide a max of one or two award seats per cabin per flight. So CX isn’t giving up a lot. But BA is different. I don’t understand why, but it’s impossible to get a ‘free’ BA TATL ticket using AA miles. There’s always a huge fee that’s essentially equal to the cost of a Y ticket. It’s crazy. But as far as I know, BA is the only oneworld member that works that way.
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:19 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Seems like CX is leaving money on the table by giving seats away to "Award Squatters" ;)

"Award squatters" make money for the airline. In some cases more so than actual paid tickets, especially when said paid tickets are heavily discounted corporate contracts.
https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.co ... ns-profit/
 
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Dieuwer
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:30 pm

airbazar wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Seems like CX is leaving money on the table by giving seats away to "Award Squatters" ;)

"Award squatters" make money for the airline. In some cases more so than actual paid tickets, especially when said paid tickets are heavily discounted corporate contracts.
https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.co ... ns-profit/


Then don't heavily discount corporate contracts.
Otherwise, with the constant devaluation of award miles those programs eventually no longer will make money either.
 
jworks158
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:22 pm

FGITD wrote:
I got myself a nice position to watch the KL arrival right by 12. I'd post the pictures I took, but I've no idea how to. Last water salute I remember was Qatar.

Great to see the summer schedules being put to use. And today is the first BA 380 of the year.


I am not sure how you can imbed here either, but you could post them to a social media site, or blog and post the link here. That is what I do.
(A359,A343/A346,A332,A319/320/321,A220-100)(B788,B772,B762,B752,B744/B748,B732/B737/B738,B717)(E190,E145)(CRJ100/200, Dash 8-200)(MD-83)
JB,UA(C5,EV,CHQ,AX),AA(EGF,ZW,AX,PT),DL(OH,YX),FL,WN,LH,BA,AF,AZ,IB,VX,CO
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airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:50 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
airbazar wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Seems like CX is leaving money on the table by giving seats away to "Award Squatters" ;)

"Award squatters" make money for the airline. In some cases more so than actual paid tickets, especially when said paid tickets are heavily discounted corporate contracts.
https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.co ... ns-profit/


Then don't heavily discount corporate contracts.
Otherwise, with the constant devaluation of award miles those programs eventually no longer will make money either.


Easier said than done. Competition is a beautiful thing.
 
jworks158
Posts: 309
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:12 pm

Logan just announced that sun country will be moving to terminal E on Monday 4/8 https://twitter.com/BostonLogan/status/ ... 3934995456
(A359,A343/A346,A332,A319/320/321,A220-100)(B788,B772,B762,B752,B744/B748,B732/B737/B738,B717)(E190,E145)(CRJ100/200, Dash 8-200)(MD-83)
JB,UA(C5,EV,CHQ,AX),AA(EGF,ZW,AX,PT),DL(OH,YX),FL,WN,LH,BA,AF,AZ,IB,VX,CO
https://my.flightradar24.com/theorangetechie
 
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pitbosflyer
Posts: 347
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:27 pm

jworks158 wrote:
Logan just announced that sun country will be moving to terminal E on Monday 4/8 https://twitter.com/BostonLogan/status/ ... 3934995456


Did they have a dedicated gate in C? Or did they share a gate. For only one flight a day, if they had a dedicated gate....I'd say the move makes sense. B6 can do alot more with that extra gate.
Last edited by pitbosflyer on Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
KMCOFlyer
Posts: 178
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:37 pm

Any updates on the work to B North for WN's move? I read in the OAG thread last week that DL had to cut some planned additional BOS capacity for September due to a delay in the move. Is this accurate?
 
iyerhari
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:57 pm

[code][/code]
jworks158 wrote:
Logan just announced that sun country will be moving to terminal E on Monday 4/8 https://twitter.com/BostonLogan/status/ ... 3934995456

Isn't SY a seasonal route? I see that they start only sometime in first week of May for 3-4 months? The timing may also work for Logan as mornings are dead there.

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