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pitbosflyer
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:34 pm

B6BOSfan wrote:
I came back to Boston last Tuesday on Delta's Heathrow flight. Several people around me were connecting at Logan Airport, including a couple to Indianapolis. They didn't realize until the flight that when they got to Boston, they'd have to switch buildings. I had suggested to them that once they cleared security, they should cut through the parking lot directly to Terminal A. They thought they'd have to trudge around all 3 terminals! That being said, the connection part of Delta's Boston strategy will be their biggest challenge -- and one JetBlue should capitalize.


I would hope Delta has some pretty good signage set up for those transferring from E to A. I recently watched a flight review from a youtuber that connected thru BOS. He got lost trying to find his way to A, even though he was following the signage. He finished his video recommending people don't make international connection in BOS.....not a great look for sure. Obviously its much easier to connect between B6 and their international partners. But I really don't think its that bad with DL either (I could be wrong). I've been thru some pretty painful JFK international connections and no one ever tells people to not connect there. DTW on the other hand has always been crazy smooth in my experience, they really do a good job.. (also I hope mentioning DTW doesn't summon the crazies).
A:320/21, 333, 343, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 763, 772 || MD80, MD90 || E:145, 170, 175, 190, 195 || CR200, 700, 900
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:03 pm

B6BOSfan wrote:
Reading all this discussion, I have a couple of questions:

- If you're adding "bus" gates at the end of Runway 14-32, where's the room to de-ice planes in the winter? I seem to recall that's where that work is done when needed.

- Is Delta counting some of its international partner airlines in that "200" count? I was stunned to see how quiet Terminal A was the Tuesday before the 4th of July around 5:30 - 6 p.m. vs. what I normally see at the JetBlue terminal at that time.

- MassPort's long term capital budget through 2025 is submitted, but could they possibly expand the airport land out over transportation way and hotel drive, especially since toll plazas are no longer needed for the Mass. Pike?

I came back to Boston last Tuesday on Delta's Heathrow flight. Several people around me were connecting at Logan Airport, including a couple to Indianapolis. They didn't realize until the flight that when they got to Boston, they'd have to switch buildings. I had suggested to them that once they cleared security, they should cut through the parking lot directly to Terminal A. They thought they'd have to trudge around all 3 terminals! That being said, the connection part of Delta's Boston strategy will be their biggest challenge -- and one JetBlue should capitalize.


The theory on the bus gates is that they would be summer only, for a number of reasons as FGITD pointed out, not really ideal in the winter for stairs and fueling (still an issue in the summer unless you extend the fuel lines over from Cargo). So they could still de-ice planes over there on the J-Pad during the winter season, you could even start out with just the eagle terminal, there are 4 striped holding slots right there assuming you use small aircraft for the purpose. But your point is well noted and would have to be managed correctly.

On the Delta counting it's partners, I am sure it is, however if you think they have (2AF, 1KLM, 2VS, 1AZ and 1KE), it's only 7 and 2 of those are not even daily. and 1 of the AF's is summer only), so it's not going to make a huge dent in the count, they would still need 193, which the math says is highly tricky to do with 21 gates, 6 of which are spoken for at various times of the day due to WS and TATL flying.

I am not sure what you think they might do with that land, but it looks exceedingly complicated to do anything with that layout, unless I am missing something and you can pinpoint where you are thinking. I think the next 2-3 years capital budget submissions are going to give us some clarity on where Massport think this is heading, by 2025, pretty much all the upgrade work will be complete. E will have 19 main gates, The expansions of B and C will be done and the re-builds complete, pax count will be headed towards 50m (barring economic crash), so in its simplest form, the question they have to pose to themselves is.. Well now what?

All the above said, I agree with you about DL, they are absolutely at a disadvantage compared to B6 in terms of international connections. Can you imagine the walk getting off DL59 at Gate E19, and having to go all the way around (if you want to stay behind security) and then through to the Satellite as your connecting flight to IND leaves from A13. Even if you scrap the security thing, and cut the parking lot, that's still a hell of a long way vs going through the C connector to the equivalent B6. We have to remember BOS wasn't really designed as a connection airport, it's O&D, the B6 piece is as close as it comes given it's proximity and now even using the E gates. Even the help guide Massport has looks scary to your average Joe Traveller https://www.massport.com/logan-airport/ ... g-flights/

All the talk of CBP in A, it makes sense given the above scenario's, I often wonder about adding another level to the Satellite to provide the Sterile area needed, that would give you the space of course, but how do you get people out of gates in a sterile fashion, when they were really design for Domestic purposes. The problem with that is that the Pike runs directly underneath the terminal, so could it take the additional weight., I wish i was an architect at this point and a structural engineer, but alas I am an accountant so this is beyond my realms of figuring out what might work practically and aesthetically.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
swinch
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:33 pm

Could we see Massport implementing some kind of post security airside bussing system between terminals? I seem to recall PHL uses these busses to solve a similar problem and it works pretty well for connections.
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:48 pm

Maybe because I've used BOS so many times the thought of changing terminals from E to A or B doesn't phase me at all. This concept certainly isn't unique to BOS. Take for instance JFK. When DL's partners KE, AZ, AF, SU all arrive into T1 those passengers connecting on to DL flights then have to change terminals to T2 or T4. Same with AA and their partner JL. Even airports like LAX require an arrival into TBIT and a change to the domestic terminals. Same with ORD I believe.
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:49 pm

Saw TP arrive yesterday and noticed the distinct bandit look to the cockpit windows. Quick look on flightradar24 confirmed it was an A330-900. Looks like TP used the A339 yesterday, Sunday and Saturday.

Is TP down an A332 or how did we get lucky with that?
 
jworks158
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:06 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
Saw TP arrive yesterday and noticed the distinct bandit look to the cockpit windows. Quick look on flightradar24 confirmed it was an A330-900. Looks like TP used the A339 yesterday, Sunday and Saturday.

Is TP down an A332 or how did we get lucky with that?


Not sure, but it is scheduled on 3 other days this week.
(A359,A343/A346,A332,A319/320/321,A220-100)(B788,B772,B762,B752,B744/B748,B732/B737/B738,B717)(E190,E145)(CRJ100/200, Dash 8-200)(MD-83)
JB,UA(C5,EV,CHQ,AX),AA(EGF,ZW,AX,PT),DL(OH,YX),FL,WN,LH,BA,AF,AZ,IB,VX,CO
https://my.flightradar24.com/theorangetechie
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:12 pm

jworks158 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
Saw TP arrive yesterday and noticed the distinct bandit look to the cockpit windows. Quick look on flightradar24 confirmed it was an A330-900. Looks like TP used the A339 yesterday, Sunday and Saturday.

Is TP down an A332 or how did we get lucky with that?


Not sure, but it is scheduled on 3 other days this week.


This should clear it up, A339 is scheduled 6 days a week and 5 days a week during the summer periods
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... p%20Boston
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
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tlecam
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:48 pm

A few things: In terminal A, the Berkshire Farms market where Lucky's used to be is open and does have a bar, however a lot less seating that Lucky's had. Terminal A was about as busy as I've ever seen it - Legal's was completely full and the Sky Club in the main terminal was pretty full. Did not go out to the satellite, but I think there is a lost opportunity cost at the main terminal for sit down dining/drinking.

On my flights this week, there were a ton of connections from Europe onto my domestic flight.

I was curious about the international departures and the gate usage. In order of departure:

AMS DL256 4:57 A14
AMS DL258 6:56 A16
CDG DL404 7:06 A13
LIS DL124 7:11 A17
LHR DL58 7:52 A14
DUB DL154 9:45 A13
EDI DL122 10:03 A16

That stretch from 6PM to 8PM must be interesting both in terms of the gates and terminal crowding.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
Northeast748
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:13 pm

VS4ever wrote:
FGITD wrote:
A is a long way from home but I seem to remember there being gates with direct stair access. Not sure of the number though.

Covered air stairs are nice, but all service equipment have wind limits, and aside from catering trucks, stairs are usually one of the lower limits.

At any rate, the biggest problem is that you can't fuel out there. Not every flight Refuels at every stop, but it still adds complications


Which brings me back to the Eagle Terminal, there are 4 slots there striped D1 to D4, they were obviously used in the past and must have had fueling access, you can refuel Fed Ex at their farthest slot for the Cargo piece, so I bet the folks at Massport could figure out how to extend that option to at least there. I could see doing it to 14/32 being a bit more tricky, they can do it in AMS, so i don't see why they can't figure it out at BOS. I get the wind aspect, but if we are running E series or smaller surely the wind limits wouldn't be quite as bad as if they were doing 320's or much larger aircraft. But hey you know way better than me, so I will defer to you on that one. :)

Anyway, if you COULD figure out that aspect, with the 4 striped spots next to the terminal and then a bunch on the jpad/middle of 14/32 you could actually build a sizeable operation out there. say 8 turns a day, you are probably able to run 50-60 flights a day from there. But I understand the potential constraints of doing that.

I took a view of google maps and i can't see any direct terminal access to the ground in A, except for maybe between A1 and A2 that would allow for buses. If you look at E8A, it has a special section striped for buses on it,

All this said, no plans before 2025, so we have time to post ad nauseum and see if Massport, Delta or their respective architects steal our ideas and implement them.


It's the Earhart Terminal :banghead: ;)

https://www.dhkinc.com/project/amelia-e ... l-airport/
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:18 pm

I hope nobody needs to be at the airport today because roads are clogged AGAIN thanks to another baseball game at Fenway (whoever decided that having a baseball park in the middle of the city is a great idea must have had a brain injury).
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:30 pm

Northeast748 wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
FGITD wrote:
A is a long way from home but I seem to remember there being gates with direct stair access. Not sure of the number though.

Covered air stairs are nice, but all service equipment have wind limits, and aside from catering trucks, stairs are usually one of the lower limits.

At any rate, the biggest problem is that you can't fuel out there. Not every flight Refuels at every stop, but it still adds complications


Which brings me back to the Eagle Terminal, there are 4 slots there striped D1 to D4, they were obviously used in the past and must have had fueling access, you can refuel Fed Ex at their farthest slot for the Cargo piece, so I bet the folks at Massport could figure out how to extend that option to at least there. I could see doing it to 14/32 being a bit more tricky, they can do it in AMS, so i don't see why they can't figure it out at BOS. I get the wind aspect, but if we are running E series or smaller surely the wind limits wouldn't be quite as bad as if they were doing 320's or much larger aircraft. But hey you know way better than me, so I will defer to you on that one. :)

Anyway, if you COULD figure out that aspect, with the 4 striped spots next to the terminal and then a bunch on the jpad/middle of 14/32 you could actually build a sizeable operation out there. say 8 turns a day, you are probably able to run 50-60 flights a day from there. But I understand the potential constraints of doing that.

I took a view of google maps and i can't see any direct terminal access to the ground in A, except for maybe between A1 and A2 that would allow for buses. If you look at E8A, it has a special section striped for buses on it,

All this said, no plans before 2025, so we have time to post ad nauseum and see if Massport, Delta or their respective architects steal our ideas and implement them.


It's the Earhart Terminal :banghead: ;)

https://www.dhkinc.com/project/amelia-e ... l-airport/


Well I’ve never heard it called that, thanks for the correction but the head banging was a bit overkill. I haven’t lived here all my life and I’ve only heard it called the Eagles Nest etc.
either way whatever it’s called officially or otherwise, I have read at its height it could manage 80 departures a day and I would say for DL or B6 that might serve a purpose down the road. So I stand by my comments.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:35 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
I hope nobody needs to be at the airport today because roads are clogged AGAIN thanks to another baseball game at Fenway (whoever decided that having a baseball park in the middle of the city is a great idea must have had a brain injury).


Well if you want to get into that argument. Fenway opened in 1912, Logan in 1923 so that argument should be who decided to put an international airport so close to the city surrounded by neighborhoods and next to one of the few main routes into the city that were never going to be designed for the number of cars/trucks using it now.

Why do you think Massport is hell bent On trying to get everyone to use Logan Express and the T.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:37 pm

VS4ever wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
I hope nobody needs to be at the airport today because roads are clogged AGAIN thanks to another baseball game at Fenway (whoever decided that having a baseball park in the middle of the city is a great idea must have had a brain injury).


Well if you want to get into that argument. Fenway opened in 1912, Logan in 1923 so that argument should be who decided to put an international airport so close to the city surrounded by neighborhoods and next to one of the few main routes into the city that were never going to be designed for the number of cars/trucks using it now.

Why do you think Massport is hell bent On trying to get everyone to use Logan Express and the T.


Logan's location is just dumb from a traffic pattern point of view: the majority of Mass residents who needs to get to/from the airport MUST drive through Boston. Just imagine, if 90% of English has to drive straight through London to reach LHR. or 90% of French had to drive straight through Paris to get to CDG.

In that sense, airports like ORD or SFO or much better located. Just imagine if ORD has been built inside lake Michigan (near the navy pier for instance). Madness!
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:47 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
I hope nobody needs to be at the airport today because roads are clogged AGAIN thanks to another baseball game at Fenway (whoever decided that having a baseball park in the middle of the city is a great idea must have had a brain injury).


Well if you want to get into that argument. Fenway opened in 1912, Logan in 1923 so that argument should be who decided to put an international airport so close to the city surrounded by neighborhoods and next to one of the few main routes into the city that were never going to be designed for the number of cars/trucks using it now.

Why do you think Massport is hell bent On trying to get everyone to use Logan Express and the T.


Logan's location is just dumb from a traffic pattern point of view: the majority of Mass residents who needs to get to/from the airport MUST drive through Boston. Just imagine, if 90% of English has to drive straight through London to reach LHR. or 90% of French had to drive straight through Paris to get to CDG.

In that sense, airports like ORD or SFO or much better located. Just imagine if ORD has been built inside lake Michigan (near the navy pier for instance). Madness!

LHR is not a great example, it may not be in the middle of the city, but I speak from personal experience many times ,it’s a horrid place to get to however you try
I would use LGW as a better example. But that’s just me.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:52 pm

VS4ever wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
VS4ever wrote:

Well if you want to get into that argument. Fenway opened in 1912, Logan in 1923 so that argument should be who decided to put an international airport so close to the city surrounded by neighborhoods and next to one of the few main routes into the city that were never going to be designed for the number of cars/trucks using it now.

Why do you think Massport is hell bent On trying to get everyone to use Logan Express and the T.


Logan's location is just dumb from a traffic pattern point of view: the majority of Mass residents who needs to get to/from the airport MUST drive through Boston. Just imagine, if 90% of English has to drive straight through London to reach LHR. or 90% of French had to drive straight through Paris to get to CDG.

In that sense, airports like ORD or SFO or much better located. Just imagine if ORD has been built inside lake Michigan (near the navy pier for instance). Madness!

LHR is not a great example, it may not be in the middle of the city, but I speak from personal experience many times ,it’s a horrid place to get to however you try
I would use LGW as a better example. But that’s just me.


Piccadilly line from central London to LHR is not bad. Better than taking a rambling street car to Southie, and then on the clogged Silver Line to Logan.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:15 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:

Logan's location is just dumb from a traffic pattern point of view: the majority of Mass residents who needs to get to/from the airport MUST drive through Boston. Just imagine, if 90% of English has to drive straight through London to reach LHR. or 90% of French had to drive straight through Paris to get to CDG.

In that sense, airports like ORD or SFO or much better located. Just imagine if ORD has been built inside lake Michigan (near the navy pier for instance). Madness!

LHR is not a great example, it may not be in the middle of the city, but I speak from personal experience many times ,it’s a horrid place to get to however you try
I would use LGW as a better example. But that’s just me.


Piccadilly line from central London to LHR is not bad. Better than taking a rambling street car to Southie, and then on the clogged Silver Line to Logan.


Yes if you want to take an hour and half to do 30 miles, I’ve done it, it takes forever. I will give you that LHR is better connected than BOS, but it’s sucks
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
Northeast748
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:31 pm

VS4ever wrote:
Northeast748 wrote:
VS4ever wrote:

Which brings me back to the Eagle Terminal, there are 4 slots there striped D1 to D4, they were obviously used in the past and must have had fueling access, you can refuel Fed Ex at their farthest slot for the Cargo piece, so I bet the folks at Massport could figure out how to extend that option to at least there. I could see doing it to 14/32 being a bit more tricky, they can do it in AMS, so i don't see why they can't figure it out at BOS. I get the wind aspect, but if we are running E series or smaller surely the wind limits wouldn't be quite as bad as if they were doing 320's or much larger aircraft. But hey you know way better than me, so I will defer to you on that one. :)

Anyway, if you COULD figure out that aspect, with the 4 striped spots next to the terminal and then a bunch on the jpad/middle of 14/32 you could actually build a sizeable operation out there. say 8 turns a day, you are probably able to run 50-60 flights a day from there. But I understand the potential constraints of doing that.

I took a view of google maps and i can't see any direct terminal access to the ground in A, except for maybe between A1 and A2 that would allow for buses. If you look at E8A, it has a special section striped for buses on it,

All this said, no plans before 2025, so we have time to post ad nauseum and see if Massport, Delta or their respective architects steal our ideas and implement them.


It's the Earhart Terminal :banghead: ;)

https://www.dhkinc.com/project/amelia-e ... l-airport/


Well I’ve never heard it called that, thanks for the correction but the head banging was a bit overkill. I haven’t lived here all my life and I’ve only heard it called the Eagles Nest etc.
either way whatever it’s called officially or otherwise, I have read at its height it could manage 80 departures a day and I would say for DL or B6 that might serve a purpose down the road. So I stand by my comments.


Yes, I was just kidding. I was not disagreeing that it should be used more.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:41 pm

Change of pace. I actually want to give a quick shout out to the DOT and in particular their OAI (Office of Airline Information unit), In some of the data I pulled from the T-100's I noticed that WS was missing their October numbers, I sent a note to the DOT last night (late) at 7am this morning, I had a response with a contact person, I followed up, by 9am they had contacted WS to get the missing info and by 11am, they said they had it and would upload it tonight for usage tomorrow.

Say what you want about our Government sometimes, but I have to say I'm mightily impressed by these guys.. and my 2018 BOS data will be all the better for it.

In additional BOS-FCO on DY/DI has now been loaded for 2020, 4 weekly (1,3,5,7) starts 3/29/20, BOS-CDG begins again on the same day, also 4x weekly (1,3,5,7)

as of yet I do not see the return of BOS-MAD. or any other direct options for them.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:56 pm

tlecam wrote:
That stretch from 6PM to 8PM must be interesting both in terms of the gates and terminal crowding.

I'll be there tomorrow on one of those. Dreading it already :)
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:09 pm

VS4ever wrote:
jworks158 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
Saw TP arrive yesterday and noticed the distinct bandit look to the cockpit windows. Quick look on flightradar24 confirmed it was an A330-900. Looks like TP used the A339 yesterday, Sunday and Saturday.

Is TP down an A332 or how did we get lucky with that?


Not sure, but it is scheduled on 3 other days this week.


This should clear it up, A339 is scheduled 6 days a week and 5 days a week during the summer periods
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... p%20Boston


Ah, thanks. I missed that.

Love the info from all of the great BOS posters in this thread!
Last edited by clrd4t8koff on Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
EK77WNH
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:11 pm

We talk about proximity of Logan to the city in both good and bad terms, but when I described things in Shanghai from my trip there last month I did so thusly: “If you overlaid the center of both cities, the Shanghai Airport would be somewhere up near Pease. Same with Tokyo and Narita. There are whole NEIGHBORHOODS in both cities that are bigger than Boston.
Next Trip:
JAL 7-8 BOS-NRT-BOS, 787-9
September
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:42 pm

VS4ever wrote:
Change of pace. I actually want to give a quick shout out to the DOT and in particular their OAI (Office of Airline Information unit), In some of the data I pulled from the T-100's I noticed that WS was missing their October numbers, I sent a note to the DOT last night (late) at 7am this morning, I had a response with a contact person, I followed up, by 9am they had contacted WS to get the missing info and by 11am, they said they had it and would upload it tonight for usage tomorrow.

Say what you want about our Government sometimes, but I have to say I'm mightily impressed by these guys.. and my 2018 BOS data will be all the better for it.

In additional BOS-FCO on DY/DI has now been loaded for 2020, 4 weekly (1,3,5,7) starts 3/29/20, BOS-CDG begins again on the same day, also 4x weekly (1,3,5,7)

as of yet I do not see the return of BOS-MAD. or any other direct options for them.


Maybe BOS-MAD will be cut due to "right sizing" DY? After all, Kjos was unceremoniously sacked a couple days ago. The rumor is DY wants to focus on profit now and not just crank out trophy routes.
 
B752OS
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:26 pm

I wonder with Delta building out their network in Boston, if we could see a return of Air Europa on a seasonal basis? Or perhaps next summer Delta will add Boston to Madrid service?
 
FGITD
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:06 am

Earhart Terminal, though it may be....you'll be hard pressed to find anyone who still calls it that. Admittedly a good name, but even some of the folks at massport call it the old eagle building now.

Along a similar line to Terminal E actually being called the Volpe International Terminal. But outside of massport and the terminal committee, I don't think you'll find anyone calling it that.

Norwegian is going to be interesting going forward. I don't think we're going to see a summer quite as ambitious as this year was. Without divulging too much, they seem to have had some operational issues in Boston, not the least bit being that they are the first to bus whenever needed.

Also be interesting to see the numbers for this summer. Just on a personal level, I don't recall seeing the airport so busy
 
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N717TW
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:45 am

Weighing in on the DL and gate space issue. My understanding from some of the DL managers in BOS is that some DL flights will start departing form E next year. Given that LHR/CDG/AMS are all turns heading back to the same city (outside of a few special repositioning situations) it would make sense for them to sit on the E ramp/or by the hanger rather than tow over to A. Given that LHR is going 330, keeping them in E would effectively about 10 to 12 hours of gate usage in Terminal A, which would allow for nearly 15 more flights. I would guess DL will start a secure side bus service similar to DL's "Jitney" at JFK or USAIr bus from C to F at PHL.
 
jetlanta
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:21 am

N717TW wrote:
Weighing in on the DL and gate space issue. My understanding from some of the DL managers in BOS is that some DL flights will start departing form E next year. Given that LHR/CDG/AMS are all turns heading back to the same city (outside of a few special repositioning situations) it would make sense for them to sit on the E ramp/or by the hanger rather than tow over to A. Given that LHR is going 330, keeping them in E would effectively about 10 to 12 hours of gate usage in Terminal A, which would allow for nearly 15 more flights. I would guess DL will start a secure side bus service similar to DL's "Jitney" at JFK or USAIr bus from C to F at PHL.



People should pay close consideration to this. And keep in mind that Delta considers BOS a hub now. They are not afraid of capital investment at their hubs. There is more to come in this space and I think a jitney would be the minimal investment they will make. Delta's profits allow it to do things that most us of can't contemplate until we see them happen.

It is going to get interesting.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:22 am

jetlanta wrote:
N717TW wrote:
Weighing in on the DL and gate space issue. My understanding from some of the DL managers in BOS is that some DL flights will start departing form E next year. Given that LHR/CDG/AMS are all turns heading back to the same city (outside of a few special repositioning situations) it would make sense for them to sit on the E ramp/or by the hanger rather than tow over to A. Given that LHR is going 330, keeping them in E would effectively about 10 to 12 hours of gate usage in Terminal A, which would allow for nearly 15 more flights. I would guess DL will start a secure side bus service similar to DL's "Jitney" at JFK or USAIr bus from C to F at PHL.



People should pay close consideration to this. And keep in mind that Delta considers BOS a hub now. They are not afraid of capital investment at their hubs. There is more to come in this space and I think a jitney would be the minimal investment they will make. Delta's profits allow it to do things that most us of can't contemplate until we see them happen.

It is going to get interesting.


This would definitely be a solution to their problem, albeit would still have to figure out how to get airside access on Terminal A for buses and there really isn't much room for that. however i am sure they could figure that out if they wanted to (see my reservations below). The 2nd issue is the schedule for those flights, which handily was just posted above :), it would also end the "needing CBP in A" argument

AMS DL256 4:57 A14
AMS DL258 6:56 A16
CDG DL404 7:06 A13
LIS DL124 7:11 A17
LHR DL58 7:52 A14
DUB DL154 9:45 A13
EDI DL122 10:03 A16

Based on the Gate Usage I am seeing right now (obviously subject to change), it could work for the AMS and CDG flights, the LHR flight is probably a no-go because all the gates are occupied at that time, DUB would be possible if PD were pulled off a gate for their RON, and EDI could just about fit if they allow 45 minutes between getting on gate and departure. My guess is that might happen and the LHR would move once the E Expansion is finished (Phase 1), it would then allow them potentially to grow that bank further, or in the mean-time back fill some 757 flying out of A, maybe.....although I am not sure Massport were thinking their shiny new extension would house DL aircraft, but then why would they care as long as someone is paying those fees for the gate usage! :)

So there is some merit to their conversations about moving them. Although I am wondering if they would bother with the bus service and just have folks go to Terminal E directly, i have to think the customer experience of getting down to a bus on the tarmac, driving around, getting off, getting up to the gate area to wait to get on the plane is not going to be an awesome one, especially in Winter, DL are used to multi-terminal ops, so I suspect just changing the Terminal on ticketing and informational pieces will be the order of the day. Even BA have done this at LHR, where they say. X flight departs from Terminal 3 rather than 4 or 5.

In terms of the uptick in gate usage, it might be more than 15, because that's really only 3 turns over 5 gates, while DL don't subscribe to the WN school of turning aircraft, I have to think to get close to 200 (the recent comment by them), they might have to push that closer to 20, if you take the WS gate out of the equation, simple math says 200 = 10 turns per gate, that would be one hell of an operation to run out of there.

As jetlanta rightly stated, this is definitely going to get interesting, that's for sure.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
ramzi
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:04 pm

Just flew out of E a couple of days ago, and it was crowded. Both the inboud TK flight and BA203 were on the tarmac for ages waiting for gates to clear, and a Norwegian 788 was offloading via stairs/bus. It was a pretty nice moment for spotting, A339, multiple 787s, two A380s, an A346, and everything else really. Our push back was delayed for nearly 30 mins because there was no space to move around with all the movement around Terminal E. Oh, and construction has begun on the extension, jackhammers were running full steam right in front of the BA A380. Fun times at Logan. :)
There will come a time when you believe everything is finished - that will be the beginning.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:07 pm

ramzi wrote:
Just flew out of E a couple of days ago, and it was crowded. Both the inboud TK flight and BA203 were on the tarmac for ages waiting for gates to clear, and a Norwegian 788 was offloading via stairs/bus. It was a pretty nice moment for spotting, A339, multiple 787s, two A380s, an A346, and everything else really. Our push back was delayed for nearly 30 mins because there was no space to move around with all the movement around Terminal E. Oh, and construction has begun on the extension, jackhammers were running full steam right in front of the BA A380. Fun times at Logan. :)


How many thousands are airlines losing for every minute of delay?
Adding more flights will just add to more delays. At what point do people start losing connections and need to be rebooked all the time, while airlines lose serious money? Will there be slot controls in the future?
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:18 pm

VS4ever wrote:
This would definitely be a solution to their problem, albeit would still have to figure out how to get airside access on Terminal A for buses and there really isn't much room for that.
[...]
So there is some merit to their conversations about moving them. Although I am wondering if they would bother with the bus service and just have folks go to Terminal E directly.

The airside bus is needed for connecting passengers. The question is whether intl inbound passengers will clear TSA security at terminal E then take the bus, or schlep to and clear security at terminal A. Will TSA setup a screening station at terminal E just for connecting passengers? I think that would make sense, not just for DL but for B6 and other airlines.
As for the location of the bus gate at terminal A, it's still there near gate 11 isn't it? They would have to give up that parking space but they are gaining a bunch more in exchange.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:23 pm

Airside bus from E to A ain't gonna happen. Would be madness. Bus would drive over the entire airport taxiways and block airplanes from reaching B and C gates.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:26 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
ramzi wrote:
Just flew out of E a couple of days ago, and it was crowded. Both the inboud TK flight and BA203 were on the tarmac for ages waiting for gates to clear, and a Norwegian 788 was offloading via stairs/bus. It was a pretty nice moment for spotting, A339, multiple 787s, two A380s, an A346, and everything else really. Our push back was delayed for nearly 30 mins because there was no space to move around with all the movement around Terminal E. Oh, and construction has begun on the extension, jackhammers were running full steam right in front of the BA A380. Fun times at Logan. :)


How many thousands are airlines losing for every minute of delay?
Adding more flights will just add to more delays. At what point do people start losing connections and need to be rebooked all the time, while airlines lose serious money? Will there be slot controls in the future?


I don’t think we will see much in E for 2020 or 2021 to be honest, as it is plainly rammed at peak times. 2022 will see the 4 new gates and 2023 the additional 3 so slot control will unlikely be needed. Massport are building usage around the edges with B6 mornings, F9 and SY enjoying the delights of the E gates, FGITD might know if E4 is still down for construction or not as well. The Summer profile is horrible, but that goes away around September when the seasonals start shutting down. So do you really put slot controls in for maybe 4 months of the year?
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:29 pm

VS4ever wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
ramzi wrote:
Just flew out of E a couple of days ago, and it was crowded. Both the inboud TK flight and BA203 were on the tarmac for ages waiting for gates to clear, and a Norwegian 788 was offloading via stairs/bus. It was a pretty nice moment for spotting, A339, multiple 787s, two A380s, an A346, and everything else really. Our push back was delayed for nearly 30 mins because there was no space to move around with all the movement around Terminal E. Oh, and construction has begun on the extension, jackhammers were running full steam right in front of the BA A380. Fun times at Logan. :)


How many thousands are airlines losing for every minute of delay?
Adding more flights will just add to more delays. At what point do people start losing connections and need to be rebooked all the time, while airlines lose serious money? Will there be slot controls in the future?


I don’t think we will see much in E for 2020 or 2021 to be honest, as it is plainly rammed at peak times. 2022 will see the 4 new gates and 2023 the additional 3 so slot control will unlikely be needed. Massport are building usage around the edges with B6 mornings, F9 and SY enjoying the delights of the E gates, FGITD might know if E4 is still down for construction or not as well. The Summer profile is horrible, but that goes away around September when the seasonals start shutting down. So do you really put slot controls in for maybe 4 months of the year?


Building more gates will not solve the problem of the access taxiways between gates and the runway. Have you looked at an aerial map of Logan? Just to reach terminal A you need to wheel past half of terminal B. And to reach the new E gates, you need to wheel past terminal E. Former plane movements will thus be restricted by adding those new gates.
 
B752OS
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:38 pm

Maybe Massport will look at a sterile walkway connection between terminal E and A? It would not be a short walk, but nothing worse than what travelers do everyday at other airports.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:43 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:

How many thousands are airlines losing for every minute of delay?
Adding more flights will just add to more delays. At what point do people start losing connections and need to be rebooked all the time, while airlines lose serious money? Will there be slot controls in the future?


I don’t think we will see much in E for 2020 or 2021 to be honest, as it is plainly rammed at peak times. 2022 will see the 4 new gates and 2023 the additional 3 so slot control will unlikely be needed. Massport are building usage around the edges with B6 mornings, F9 and SY enjoying the delights of the E gates, FGITD might know if E4 is still down for construction or not as well. The Summer profile is horrible, but that goes away around September when the seasonals start shutting down. So do you really put slot controls in for maybe 4 months of the year?


Building more gates will not solve the problem of the access taxiways between gates and the runway. Have you looked at an aerial map of Logan? Just to reach terminal A you need to wheel past half of terminal B. And to reach the new E gates, you need to wheel past terminal E. Former plane movements will thus be restricted by adding those new gates.

Actually I have looked very closely at it for all the other comments and suggestions that have been going around and frankly I don’t see an issue. There are support roads already lined out all the way around the terminals. Vehicles drive on them all day everyday with the existing movement profile. What we are discussing here is probably 20 buses a day moving from A to E and maybe the other way, maybe not it will only make the slightest bit of difference to the traffic movements compared to what is already going around them. Also Aircraft movements have the priority, not vehicles (outside of emergency vehicles) and that’s the key point here that will
Minimize the impact accordingly, if you listen to LiveATC you will often hear requests from vehicles to cross certain points because of aircraft movements. The busing may Not so great for the pax, but airport ops would not be impacted greatly, the other question that has been raised is whether you could make the proposed people mover into a post security option, but that’s definitely a complex solution.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:46 pm

B752OS wrote:
Maybe Massport will look at a sterile walkway connection between terminal E and A? It would not be a short walk, but nothing worse than what travelers do everyday at other airports.


Hmmm interesting idea and I agree about the walking, anyone who has departed from Terminal 3 at LHR knows what a hell of a walk it is to one of the further gates (20 minutes recommended), you can cross BOS in around 5-10 if you go through Central Parking.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
RobertS975
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:59 pm

[photoid][/photoid]
clrd4t8koff wrote:
Maybe because I've used BOS so many times the thought of changing terminals from E to A or B doesn't phase me at all. This concept certainly isn't unique to BOS. Take for instance JFK. When DL's partners KE, AZ, AF, SU all arrive into T1 those passengers connecting on to DL flights then have to change terminals to T2 or T4. Same with AA and their partner JL. Even airports like LAX require an arrival into TBIT and a change to the domestic terminals. Same with ORD I believe.


People make way more of a big deal about the E to A transfer in BOS than it deserves. The process of exiting the CBP area and taking the moving walkways through the parking lot to A, the reclearing security to enter A takes no more time than exiting CBP at ATL and reclearing security to transfer to a connecting flight in A, B or T gates! Or in LAX, or JFK to a flight in T2.

Wondering if MassPort has ever entertained the idea of stealing the acreage from the Fedex terminal for expansion of terminal A gates for international flights (all new construction would be likely needed) and finding another, less central location for the Fedex terminal, perhaps even filling some marsh near the GA terminal. No need for Fedex to occupy a facility essentially right in the hear of the airport.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:12 pm

RobertS975 wrote:
[photoid][/photoid]
clrd4t8koff wrote:
Maybe because I've used BOS so many times the thought of changing terminals from E to A or B doesn't phase me at all. This concept certainly isn't unique to BOS. Take for instance JFK. When DL's partners KE, AZ, AF, SU all arrive into T1 those passengers connecting on to DL flights then have to change terminals to T2 or T4. Same with AA and their partner JL. Even airports like LAX require an arrival into TBIT and a change to the domestic terminals. Same with ORD I believe.


People make way more of a big deal about the E to A transfer in BOS than it deserves. The process of exiting the CBP area and taking the moving walkways through the parking lot to A, the reclearing security to enter A takes no more time than exiting CBP at ATL and reclearing security to transfer to a connecting flight in A, B or T gates! Or in LAX, or JFK to a flight in T2.

Wondering if MassPort has ever entertained the idea of stealing the acreage from the Fedex terminal for expansion of terminal A gates for international flights (all new construction would be likely needed) and finding another, less central location for the Fedex terminal, perhaps even filling some marsh near the GA terminal. No need for Fedex to occupy a facility essentially right in the hear of the airport.


We’ve been discussing that, and the issue Is, that space is not just Fed Ex it handles cargo for the majority of the major airlines as well. Relocation maybe an option if they can get the environmental impacts figured out (although filling in a marsh may not go over too well), it would make sense for a lot of reasons, but would be a huge project to figure out when the airport handles over 700m lbs of cargo a year.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
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N717TW
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:48 pm

VS4ever wrote:
jetlanta wrote:
N717TW wrote:
Weighing in on the DL and gate space issue. My understanding from some of the DL managers in BOS is that some DL flights will start departing form E next year. Given that LHR/CDG/AMS are all turns heading back to the same city (outside of a few special repositioning situations) it would make sense for them to sit on the E ramp/or by the hanger rather than tow over to A. Given that LHR is going 330, keeping them in E would effectively about 10 to 12 hours of gate usage in Terminal A, which would allow for nearly 15 more flights. I would guess DL will start a secure side bus service similar to DL's "Jitney" at JFK or USAIr bus from C to F at PHL.



People should pay close consideration to this. And keep in mind that Delta considers BOS a hub now. They are not afraid of capital investment at their hubs. There is more to come in this space and I think a jitney would be the minimal investment they will make. Delta's profits allow it to do things that most us of can't contemplate until we see them happen.

It is going to get interesting.


This would definitely be a solution to their problem, albeit would still have to figure out how to get airside access on Terminal A for buses and there really isn't much room for that. however i am sure they could figure that out if they wanted to (see my reservations below). The 2nd issue is the schedule for those flights, which handily was just posted above :), it would also end the "needing CBP in A" argument

AMS DL256 4:57 A14
AMS DL258 6:56 A16
CDG DL404 7:06 A13
LIS DL124 7:11 A17
LHR DL58 7:52 A14
DUB DL154 9:45 A13
EDI DL122 10:03 A16

Based on the Gate Usage I am seeing right now (obviously subject to change), it could work for the AMS and CDG flights, the LHR flight is probably a no-go because all the gates are occupied at that time, DUB would be possible if PD were pulled off a gate for their RON, and EDI could just about fit if they allow 45 minutes between getting on gate and departure. My guess is that might happen and the LHR would move once the E Expansion is finished (Phase 1), it would then allow them potentially to grow that bank further, or in the mean-time back fill some 757 flying out of A, maybe.....although I am not sure Massport were thinking their shiny new extension would house DL aircraft, but then why would they care as long as someone is paying those fees for the gate usage! :)

So there is some merit to their conversations about moving them. Although I am wondering if they would bother with the bus service and just have folks go to Terminal E directly, i have to think the customer experience of getting down to a bus on the tarmac, driving around, getting off, getting up to the gate area to wait to get on the plane is not going to be an awesome one, especially in Winter, DL are used to multi-terminal ops, so I suspect just changing the Terminal on ticketing and informational pieces will be the order of the day. Even BA have done this at LHR, where they say. X flight departs from Terminal 3 rather than 4 or 5.

In terms of the uptick in gate usage, it might be more than 15, because that's really only 3 turns over 5 gates, while DL don't subscribe to the WN school of turning aircraft, I have to think to get close to 200 (the recent comment by them), they might have to push that closer to 20, if you take the WS gate out of the equation, simple math says 200 = 10 turns per gate, that would be one hell of an operation to run out of there.

As jetlanta rightly stated, this is definitely going to get interesting, that's for sure.


A few thoughts.

1. DUB would probably stay in A since its pre-cleared and the plane rotates with SLC (at the moment). Same would happen if SNN ever happens.
2. I would expect non-preclear Caribbean to move over there as well.
3. If there is a bus, my guess is its a one-way only shuttle...and its for the purpose of moving connecting traffic over to the Int'l flights. Im not sure what's left of the old A12 (the stairs appear to be gone) but that would seem the prime spot. There is also a passenger hallway to the ramp down by A2 or A3 (I used to use it on the Shuttle when you could exit via the rear airstairs). I would suspect that DL would keep things somewhat consistent (UK, EU flights except IRL depart E) and then notify you electronically when you're departing from E just like they do with JFK and similar to how AA does at DFW and BA does at LHR.

I would love to see a secure walkway from A to E (similar to the G to C walkway in Minneapolis) but the addition to Central parking will make that harder than it would have been plus how many connections are we really talking about. there are 12 DL+partner non-pre-clearance TATL/TPAC flights per day. Does it really warrant the expense of a walkway though the garage. Despite what people say about DL spending money, they really have been super cheap in their capital spending. At JFK there was supposed to be an enclosed bridge between 2 and 4 but they went with a bus instead. Plus Terminal 4 isn't that great compared to other flagship international terminals. At LAX, DL has worked out the deal so that most of the updates actually incurred by LAWA.

My personal question: If DL does infact depart from E, will they open a lounge? They're trying to capture big money on Int'l traffic and having a lounge is a key part of the Int'l experience. Or will they force us to use the AF lounge (sorta a let down since it feels like the old NWA lounge or would they let us use the VS lounge (huge win!)?
 
B752OS
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:04 pm

N717TW wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
jetlanta wrote:

A few thoughts.

1. DUB would probably stay in A since its pre-cleared and the plane rotates with SLC (at the moment). Same would happen if SNN ever happens.
2. I would expect non-preclear Caribbean to move over there as well.
3. If there is a bus, my guess is its a one-way only shuttle...and its for the purpose of moving connecting traffic over to the Int'l flights. Im not sure what's left of the old A12 (the stairs appear to be gone) but that would seem the prime spot. There is also a passenger hallway to the ramp down by A2 or A3 (I used to use it on the Shuttle when you could exit via the rear airstairs). I would suspect that DL would keep things somewhat consistent (UK, EU flights except IRL depart E) and then notify you electronically when you're departing from E just like they do with JFK and similar to how AA does at DFW and BA does at LHR.

I would love to see a secure walkway from A to E (similar to the G to C walkway in Minneapolis) but the addition to Central parking will make that harder than it would have been plus how many connections are we really talking about. there are 12 DL+partner non-pre-clearance TATL/TPAC flights per day. Does it really warrant the expense of a walkway though the garage. Despite what people say about DL spending money, they really have been super cheap in their capital spending. At JFK there was supposed to be an enclosed bridge between 2 and 4 but they went with a bus instead. Plus Terminal 4 isn't that great compared to other flagship international terminals. At LAX, DL has worked out the deal so that most of the updates actually incurred by LAWA.

My personal question: If DL does infact depart from E, will they open a lounge? They're trying to capture big money on Int'l traffic and having a lounge is a key part of the Int'l experience. Or will they force us to use the AF lounge (sorta a let down since it feels like the old NWA lounge or would they let us use the VS lounge (huge win!)?


The first phase of the terminal E expansion includes space for 4 airline clubs (located above the great hall) and as a result, the existing airline clubs located on the lower level of terminal E will be moved out to make space for the expand CBP facilities. My guess is that Air France will take one of the 4 spaces and perhaps Delta will work with them on it? So once phase 1 is complete, there will be 7 airline clubs all located on upper levels. British Airways, Lufthansa and Emirates are already in the 3 new clubs built above E 10-12.
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:58 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Airside bus from E to A ain't gonna happen. Would be madness. Bus would drive over the entire airport taxiways and block airplanes from reaching B and C gates.

I think you are over exaggerating it. One bus every 15 minutes is nothing compared with the hundreds of other vehicles traveling around the tarmac every minute of the day. This same thing already happens at lots of airports around the world. There are traffic lanes specificaly designated for ground vehicles including buses. Just look at the same aerial view of Logan that you suggested and you will see it. And yes it is a long ride but still the best option short of a bridge connecting both E and A's sterile area.
 
FGITD
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:17 pm

There's almost no chance of DL being left on the terminal E gates all day. Most of the inbound flights barely take 30 minutes to offload and be ready to tow. Generally speaking, unless it's a quick turn...you tow, no matter who you are. (Once again exclude BA to some degree)

On today's E plan for example, all the DL flights are clocked at 45 minutes on the gate, and all the gates have another airplane arriving very shortly thereafter.

This also doesn't play much into DL's non-stop branding consistency. They would be given common use access, just like everyone else.

Regarding buses...really not that big a deal. To drive from E to A or vice versa, there's no need for ATC clearance or any outside communication. Just follow the signs and remember planes have the right of way. With that said, there's no bus lanes, and you're always at the mercy of aircraft arriving or departing from gates. Terminal C in particular can be a long ride. As can the taxiway E/K crossing by terminal B.

Maybe stuff pax into the catering trucks, they're already traversing the airfield all day anyway. And they can lift right up to the door of the airplane.
 
EK77WNH
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:59 pm

The moment you start even THINKING about filling in a mash, a bazillion spotted newts and turtles will be found to be living EXACTLY THERE. :rotfl:
Next Trip:
JAL 7-8 BOS-NRT-BOS, 787-9
September
 
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airportugal310
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:52 pm

EK77WNH wrote:
The moment you start even THINKING about filling in a mash, a bazillion spotted newts and turtles will be found to be living EXACTLY THERE. :rotfl:


And clams!!! Don't forget the clams!!
“They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.”
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:40 pm

FGITD wrote:

Maybe stuff pax into the catering trucks, they're already traversing the airfield all day anyway. And they can lift right up to the door of the airplane.


:rotfl: Please do not give the following airlines ideas.

Spirit
Frontier
American
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
tphuang
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:26 pm

N717TW wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
jetlanta wrote:


People should pay close consideration to this. And keep in mind that Delta considers BOS a hub now. They are not afraid of capital investment at their hubs. There is more to come in this space and I think a jitney would be the minimal investment they will make. Delta's profits allow it to do things that most us of can't contemplate until we see them happen.

It is going to get interesting.


This would definitely be a solution to their problem, albeit would still have to figure out how to get airside access on Terminal A for buses and there really isn't much room for that. however i am sure they could figure that out if they wanted to (see my reservations below). The 2nd issue is the schedule for those flights, which handily was just posted above :), it would also end the "needing CBP in A" argument

AMS DL256 4:57 A14
AMS DL258 6:56 A16
CDG DL404 7:06 A13
LIS DL124 7:11 A17
LHR DL58 7:52 A14
DUB DL154 9:45 A13
EDI DL122 10:03 A16

Based on the Gate Usage I am seeing right now (obviously subject to change), it could work for the AMS and CDG flights, the LHR flight is probably a no-go because all the gates are occupied at that time, DUB would be possible if PD were pulled off a gate for their RON, and EDI could just about fit if they allow 45 minutes between getting on gate and departure. My guess is that might happen and the LHR would move once the E Expansion is finished (Phase 1), it would then allow them potentially to grow that bank further, or in the mean-time back fill some 757 flying out of A, maybe.....although I am not sure Massport were thinking their shiny new extension would house DL aircraft, but then why would they care as long as someone is paying those fees for the gate usage! :)

So there is some merit to their conversations about moving them. Although I am wondering if they would bother with the bus service and just have folks go to Terminal E directly, i have to think the customer experience of getting down to a bus on the tarmac, driving around, getting off, getting up to the gate area to wait to get on the plane is not going to be an awesome one, especially in Winter, DL are used to multi-terminal ops, so I suspect just changing the Terminal on ticketing and informational pieces will be the order of the day. Even BA have done this at LHR, where they say. X flight departs from Terminal 3 rather than 4 or 5.

In terms of the uptick in gate usage, it might be more than 15, because that's really only 3 turns over 5 gates, while DL don't subscribe to the WN school of turning aircraft, I have to think to get close to 200 (the recent comment by them), they might have to push that closer to 20, if you take the WS gate out of the equation, simple math says 200 = 10 turns per gate, that would be one hell of an operation to run out of there.

As jetlanta rightly stated, this is definitely going to get interesting, that's for sure.


A few thoughts.

1. DUB would probably stay in A since its pre-cleared and the plane rotates with SLC (at the moment). Same would happen if SNN ever happens.
2. I would expect non-preclear Caribbean to move over there as well.
3. If there is a bus, my guess is its a one-way only shuttle...and its for the purpose of moving connecting traffic over to the Int'l flights. Im not sure what's left of the old A12 (the stairs appear to be gone) but that would seem the prime spot. There is also a passenger hallway to the ramp down by A2 or A3 (I used to use it on the Shuttle when you could exit via the rear airstairs). I would suspect that DL would keep things somewhat consistent (UK, EU flights except IRL depart E) and then notify you electronically when you're departing from E just like they do with JFK and similar to how AA does at DFW and BA does at LHR.

I would love to see a secure walkway from A to E (similar to the G to C walkway in Minneapolis) but the addition to Central parking will make that harder than it would have been plus how many connections are we really talking about. there are 12 DL+partner non-pre-clearance TATL/TPAC flights per day. Does it really warrant the expense of a walkway though the garage. Despite what people say about DL spending money, they really have been super cheap in their capital spending. At JFK there was supposed to be an enclosed bridge between 2 and 4 but they went with a bus instead. Plus Terminal 4 isn't that great compared to other flagship international terminals. At LAX, DL has worked out the deal so that most of the updates actually incurred by LAWA.

My personal question: If DL does infact depart from E, will they open a lounge? They're trying to capture big money on Int'l traffic and having a lounge is a key part of the Int'l experience. Or will they force us to use the AF lounge (sorta a let down since it feels like the old NWA lounge or would they let us use the VS lounge (huge win!)?


Keep in mind that even though there is expansion in terminal E starting in 2021, JetBlue will take up a lot of those new slot opened up.

They are getting 26 A321LR/XLR into service from 2021 to 2024. Funny how that times perfectly with Terminal E expansion? By my estimation, that will allow them to operate about 15 to 16 daily TATL flights out of BOS by the time they receive all that aircraft. Given that most TATL flights have the same arrival/departure window, that will take up a good chunk of the 7 new gates. Even if they depart from mostly the E gates next to terminal C, that's still a lot of arrival time slots taken up. Given all their efforts to curry favors with MassPort, I don't see them denied the opportunity to use a good chunk of the slots opened up with those new gates. So if TATL departures slots right now are at premium at Terminal E, I don't see that getting much better. Certainly not one where DL can block off several gates at a time.
 
B6BOSfan
Posts: 63
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:06 am

tphuang wrote:

Keep in mind that even though there is expansion in terminal E starting in 2021, JetBlue will take up a lot of those new slot opened up.

They are getting 26 A321LR/XLR into service from 2021 to 2024. Funny how that times perfectly with Terminal E expansion? By my estimation, that will allow them to operate about 15 to 16 daily TATL flights out of BOS by the time they receive all that aircraft. Given that most TATL flights have the same arrival/departure window, that will take up a good chunk of the 7 new gates. Even if they depart from mostly the E gates next to terminal C, that's still a lot of arrival time slots taken up. Given all their efforts to curry favors with MassPort, I don't see them denied the opportunity to use a good chunk of the slots opened up with those new gates. So if TATL departures slots right now are at premium at Terminal E, I don't see that getting much better. Certainly not one where DL can block off several gates at a time.


Perhaps Delta might want to consider adding daily service from ORH to ATL and MSP to get on Massport's good side?
 
Deltran757
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:11 am

Dieuwer wrote:
Airside bus from E to A ain't gonna happen. Would be madness. Bus would drive over the entire airport taxiways and block airplanes from reaching B and C gates.


Negative! Buses or any vehicles have to stop for any aircraft that is moving (aircrafts always have the right away). This isn’t your local street. Everyone has to yield to moving aircraft unless the aircraft signals for you to move infront of them while its is in s holding position.
To see the world... One plane at a time
 
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mikegigs
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:38 am

Does anyone know if there were any diversions/notable cancellations yesterday due to the stormy weather?

I thought on my way to work today I saw both a BA 777 and 787 on the ground at about 7:00am. Thought last night's 787 flight had maybe been cancelled but BA's website says all four flights went out yesterday.

Perhaps I was mistaken though, hard to keep your eyes on the road and on the aircraft :?
Airports: BOS, JAX, JFK, EWR, LGA, CVG, ATL, CLT, DCA, IAD, STT, PVD, ALB, MCO
Aircraft: 733, 735, 73G, 738, 752, 717, A319, A320, MD-88, E190, E175, E145, CRJ-200, CRJ-700, Q400
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VS4ever
Posts: 2580
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:19 pm

mikegigs wrote:
Does anyone know if there were any diversions/notable cancellations yesterday due to the stormy weather?

I thought on my way to work today I saw both a BA 777 and 787 on the ground at about 7:00am. Thought last night's 787 flight had maybe been cancelled but BA's website says all four flights went out yesterday.

Perhaps I was mistaken though, hard to keep your eyes on the road and on the aircraft :?


This thread should help, your eyes were not deceiving you, and it appears we had a super rare visitor in the EVA air divert.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1427273
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