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iyerhari
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:15 pm

tphuang wrote:
tlecam wrote:
TPHuang - question about those average fares for the Cleveland route? How would connecting traffic for DL and B6 reflect there?

I stripped out any fare itineraries that were BOS-XXX-CLE, since those are not reflective of the direct route. Sorry, I don't have any data on CLE-BOS-XXX or XXX-BOS-CLE. Haven't figured out how to calculate % of traffic that are connecting on a route. I would imagine that would be lower yielding stuff.

tphuang - thank you as always. Generic question and if anyone can share insights would be helpful: typically is the cost structure for express flights cheaper vs. full service or it is completely dependent on outside factors (premium cabin, fare competition etc.). The reason I ask is: (just listed some of the key points)

1. Last week due to the CHI bad weather on Thu, all AA flights got canceled to BOS. I had to fly on Fri to PVD. When I looked at the announcement board, practically all Platinum Pro members got upgraded to First Class. It was also a AAE flights to PVD vs. all the flights to BOS are the AA flights. The point I am trying to make is, for flights to BOS, rarely do I find members get an upgrade unless it is fluke - I am referring to pax who are lifetime million milers and i hear them lament all the time how rarely they find an upgrade.

Does AA make money in the PVD flight as the front row is filled with upgraded pax?

2. DL is going to start flights to ORD starting Sep. ORD is ultra-competitive market and i can buy a first class seat using my corporate website for $200/way. This is for AA. I can imagine DL is chasing the Sky pax as most business pax want to be in their affiliated airline. Can we say that DL cost structure would be cheaper than UA or AA as they are going to use Express planes vs. full-service DL?

Appreciate any expert insights.
 
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tlecam
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:15 am

Lots of diversions headed to Logan tonight - they apparently closed two runways just to park the planes.

https://twitter.com/jettipnet/status/11 ... 66624?s=21
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:57 am

tlecam wrote:
Lots of diversions headed to Logan tonight - they apparently closed two runways just to park the planes.

https://twitter.com/jettipnet/status/11 ... 66624?s=21


Closed 4R and 33L, ouch... that means they can only use 4L/22R and 9/27 as the main operating runways..

You should definitely take a look at some of those diverts, there's a couple of rarities in there for BOS

Alr Belgium, 2x UA 772's, UA 787-10 (wonder if that's the first visit of the type to BOS), JAL 77W, AA 77W, thank goodness RAM recently started to BOS, as one of their 789's showed up.

Always fun to see the diversions, no fun to be the diverted aircraft.. good luck to everyone on those planes tonight, it's going to be a long night I think.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
PVD757
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:05 am

iyerhari wrote:
tphuang wrote:
tlecam wrote:
TPHuang - question about those average fares for the Cleveland route? How would connecting traffic for DL and B6 reflect there?

I stripped out any fare itineraries that were BOS-XXX-CLE, since those are not reflective of the direct route. Sorry, I don't have any data on CLE-BOS-XXX or XXX-BOS-CLE. Haven't figured out how to calculate % of traffic that are connecting on a route. I would imagine that would be lower yielding stuff.

tphuang - thank you as always. Generic question and if anyone can share insights would be helpful: typically is the cost structure for express flights cheaper vs. full service or it is completely dependent on outside factors (premium cabin, fare competition etc.). The reason I ask is: (just listed some of the key points)

1. Last week due to the CHI bad weather on Thu, all AA flights got canceled to BOS. I had to fly on Fri to PVD. When I looked at the announcement board, practically all Platinum Pro members got upgraded to First Class. It was also a AAE flights to PVD vs. all the flights to BOS are the AA flights. The point I am trying to make is, for flights to BOS, rarely do I find members get an upgrade unless it is fluke - I am referring to pax who are lifetime million milers and i hear them lament all the time how rarely they find an upgrade.

Does AA make money in the PVD flight as the front row is filled with upgraded pax?

2. DL is going to start flights to ORD starting Sep. ORD is ultra-competitive market and i can buy a first class seat using my corporate website for $200/way. This is for AA. I can imagine DL is chasing the Sky pax as most business pax want to be in their affiliated airline. Can we say that DL cost structure would be cheaper than UA or AA as they are going to use Express planes vs. full-service DL?

Appreciate any expert insights.


The front cabin PVD regulars left for BOS years ago when PVD went down to 2 UA ORD flights on ERJs. Top tier corporate business travelers want frequency and gauge of aircraft that provide options. PVD hasn’t had either in over 10 years but has 6 total ORD flights this summer and fall.

Average fares from PVD to ORD versus BOS are also 40% higher so I’m sure money is being made on these flights.
 
FGITD
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:53 am

VS4ever wrote:
tlecam wrote:
Lots of diversions headed to Logan tonight - they apparently closed two runways just to park the planes.

https://twitter.com/jettipnet/status/11 ... 66624?s=21


Closed 4R and 33L, ouch... that means they can only use 4L/22R and 9/27 as the main operating runways..

You should definitely take a look at some of those diverts, there's a couple of rarities in there for BOS

Alr Belgium, 2x UA 772's, UA 787-10 (wonder if that's the first visit of the type to BOS), JAL 77W, AA 77W, thank goodness RAM recently started to BOS, as one of their 789's showed up.

Always fun to see the diversions, no fun to be the diverted aircraft.. good luck to everyone on those planes tonight, it's going to be a long night I think.



not a particularly fun evening for massport or ramp teams. Busing from a runway isn't exactly ideal, although I'm sure many on this site would love it.

There was also an AF 380 and I believe a KL 744 in the region, which certainly would have made things interesting

As far as I'm aware, a UA 78-10 diverted in a few months ago.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:19 pm

confirmation that DY/DI CDG-BOS is switching to summer seasonal only, that mirrors what is showing on their booking site. As previously noted, LGW remains year round, and FCO comes back in March, along with CDG, MAD is nowhere to be seen, so right now, they are done with that one.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... djustment/
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
jworks158
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:29 pm

tlecam wrote:
Lots of diversions headed to Logan tonight - they apparently closed two runways just to park the planes.

https://twitter.com/jettipnet/status/11 ... 66624?s=21


Correct in total there were about 25 diversions to BOS with 13 heavies, as I said in my tweet https://twitter.com/theOrangetechie/status/1153449985154912257?s=20 based on the NOTAMS and locations of the diverted aircraft on flightradar they closed 33L, and 4L to park the diversions. Furthermore at least 2 BOS bound flights had to divert. 1 was the 2nd daily LH, it diverted to BGR it arrived in BOS after 11pm, and a JetBlue went to PWM. All said and done most of them did get out last night, however 4 planes didn't make it out. Currently are 2x 772 & 1x 787-10 from united, and 1x 77W from AA.
(A359,A343/A346,A332,A319/320/321,A220-100)(B788,B772,B762,B752,B744/B748,B732/B737/B738,B717)(E190,E145)(CRJ100/200, Dash 8-200)(MD-83)
JB,UA(C5,EV,CHQ,AX),AA(EGF,ZW,AX,PT),DL(OH,YX),FL,WN,LH,BA,AF,AZ,IB,VX,CO
https://my.flightradar24.com/theorangetechie
 
tphuang
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:35 pm

iyerhari wrote:
1. Last week due to the CHI bad weather on Thu, all AA flights got canceled to BOS. I had to fly on Fri to PVD. When I looked at the announcement board, practically all Platinum Pro members got upgraded to First Class. It was also a AAE flights to PVD vs. all the flights to BOS are the AA flights. The point I am trying to make is, for flights to BOS, rarely do I find members get an upgrade unless it is fluke - I am referring to pax who are lifetime million milers and i hear them lament all the time how rarely they find an upgrade.

Does AA make money in the PVD flight as the front row is filled with upgraded pax?

2. DL is going to start flights to ORD starting Sep. ORD is ultra-competitive market and i can buy a first class seat using my corporate website for $200/way. This is for AA. I can imagine DL is chasing the Sky pax as most business pax want to be in their affiliated airline. Can we say that DL cost structure would be cheaper than UA or AA as they are going to use Express planes vs. full-service DL?

Appreciate any expert insights.


Sounds like we have similar experiences with upgrades on AAE flights =). My guess is that the elites are all flying to BOS due to the better/more reliable schedule.

For cost, I think this thread is really helpful.
viewtopic.php?t=559385

From a few years back, but the relative cost is probably still applicable. From there, you can see that in the same aircraft series like A319 vs A320 and B737 vs B738, the overall cost of the larger capacity variant is on average 5 to 10% higher, but the CASM is noticeably lower. And comparing something like A320 vs E90 (which we have data on from B6 and US), the overall cost is 20 to 30% more on A320, but the capacity is 50% more, so cost per seat is 20 to 25% lower. I think you will get similar differences with E90 vs 70 E70 or 76 seat E75.

E90 overall cost might be 15-20% higher (even accounting for the lower pilot/FA wages for express planes), but there are 32% more seat vs E75 and 43% more seat vs E70. So cost per seat for E70/75 would be probably 15 to 20% higher than E90 and probably 30 to 50% highr than A320/B737. I think AA is probably able to generate much higher average fares to PVD than BOS, since PVD would have much less competition. Also using AAE means they have fewer seats to fill per fight, so they don't need to fill as many seats with lower revenue connection or heavily discounted Y seats. That's why airlines want to upgauge to mainline when possible.
 
aaflyer777
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:35 pm

Appears F9 is adding BOS-MIA, 4 weekly starting Nov 15
 
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tlecam
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:08 pm

jworks158 wrote:
tlecam wrote:
Lots of diversions headed to Logan tonight - they apparently closed two runways just to park the planes.

https://twitter.com/jettipnet/status/11 ... 66624?s=21


Correct in total there were about 25 diversions to BOS with 13 heavies, as I said in my tweet https://twitter.com/theOrangetechie/status/1153449985154912257?s=20 based on the NOTAMS and locations of the diverted aircraft on flightradar they closed 33L, and 4L to park the diversions. Furthermore at least 2 BOS bound flights had to divert. 1 was the 2nd daily LH, it diverted to BGR it arrived in BOS after 11pm, and a JetBlue went to PWM. All said and done most of them did get out last night, however 4 planes didn't make it out. Currently are 2x 772 & 1x 787-10 from united, and 1x 77W from AA.


The AA 773 is scheduled to fly tonight from BOS to JFK at 20:30.

I was a littel surprised that they just let it sit all day.

BTW, I enjoy your twitter feed.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
FGITD
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:38 pm

tlecam wrote:
jworks158 wrote:
tlecam wrote:
Lots of diversions headed to Logan tonight - they apparently closed two runways just to park the planes.

https://twitter.com/jettipnet/status/11 ... 66624?s=21


Correct in total there were about 25 diversions to BOS with 13 heavies, as I said in my tweet https://twitter.com/theOrangetechie/status/1153449985154912257?s=20 based on the NOTAMS and locations of the diverted aircraft on flightradar they closed 33L, and 4L to park the diversions. Furthermore at least 2 BOS bound flights had to divert. 1 was the 2nd daily LH, it diverted to BGR it arrived in BOS after 11pm, and a JetBlue went to PWM. All said and done most of them did get out last night, however 4 planes didn't make it out. Currently are 2x 772 & 1x 787-10 from united, and 1x 77W from AA.


The AA 773 is scheduled to fly tonight from BOS to JFK at 20:30.

I was a littel surprised that they just let it sit all day.

BTW, I enjoy your twitter feed.


I don't know how AA handles things since I work mostly international based carriers, but I would guess there's a decent chance it's sitting all day so the crew that brought it in can get it to JFK tonight, and possibly put the plane on a late departure.

No need to deadhead a crew in, ferry the plane, dead head the diverted crew out separately. Just have them get their mandatory rest, bring it to JFK and off they go
 
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tlecam
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:47 pm

FGITD wrote:
tlecam wrote:
jworks158 wrote:

Correct in total there were about 25 diversions to BOS with 13 heavies, as I said in my tweet https://twitter.com/theOrangetechie/status/1153449985154912257?s=20 based on the NOTAMS and locations of the diverted aircraft on flightradar they closed 33L, and 4L to park the diversions. Furthermore at least 2 BOS bound flights had to divert. 1 was the 2nd daily LH, it diverted to BGR it arrived in BOS after 11pm, and a JetBlue went to PWM. All said and done most of them did get out last night, however 4 planes didn't make it out. Currently are 2x 772 & 1x 787-10 from united, and 1x 77W from AA.


The AA 773 is scheduled to fly tonight from BOS to JFK at 20:30.

I was a littel surprised that they just let it sit all day.

BTW, I enjoy your twitter feed.


I don't know how AA handles things since I work mostly international based carriers, but I would guess there's a decent chance it's sitting all day so the crew that brought it in can get it to JFK tonight, and possibly put the plane on a late departure.

No need to deadhead a crew in, ferry the plane, dead head the diverted crew out separately. Just have them get their mandatory rest, bring it to JFK and off they go


Thanks, that makes a ton of sense. I was wondering more from the POV of customers at the height of sumemr flying after the disruptions over the past 24 hours, but that makes a lot of operational sense.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
jworks158
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:02 pm

tlecam wrote:
jworks158 wrote:
tlecam wrote:
Lots of diversions headed to Logan tonight - they apparently closed two runways just to park the planes.

https://twitter.com/jettipnet/status/11 ... 66624?s=21


Correct in total there were about 25 diversions to BOS with 13 heavies, as I said in my tweet https://twitter.com/theOrangetechie/status/1153449985154912257?s=20 based on the NOTAMS and locations of the diverted aircraft on flightradar they closed 33L, and 4L to park the diversions. Furthermore at least 2 BOS bound flights had to divert. 1 was the 2nd daily LH, it diverted to BGR it arrived in BOS after 11pm, and a JetBlue went to PWM. All said and done most of them did get out last night, however 4 planes didn't make it out. Currently are 2x 772 & 1x 787-10 from united, and 1x 77W from AA.


BTW, I enjoy your twitter feed.


Thanks! It will be more boston related soon, as I am moving back after 5 years in ROC next week!
(A359,A343/A346,A332,A319/320/321,A220-100)(B788,B772,B762,B752,B744/B748,B732/B737/B738,B717)(E190,E145)(CRJ100/200, Dash 8-200)(MD-83)
JB,UA(C5,EV,CHQ,AX),AA(EGF,ZW,AX,PT),DL(OH,YX),FL,WN,LH,BA,AF,AZ,IB,VX,CO
https://my.flightradar24.com/theorangetechie
 
RobertS975
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:15 pm

AviationAddict wrote:
jworks158 wrote:
Cape Air took delivery of the first two Tecnam P2012s this past week so time to start looking for them at BOS https://www.tecnam.com/slider-home-en/c ... -aircraft/


I can't remember where I read this so don't take it as gospel but I believe the first handful are being sent out to either the Montana or Missouri (can't remember which) bases. It might be a while before BOS sees regular service with the P2012s.


On a side note, it looks like the livery might be slightly different, more grayish blue than royal/dark blue on the tail. It could just be the lighting though. Either way, it's a great looking plane.

https://media.tecnam.org/2019/07/22/cap ... -aircraft/


You would think that in this day and age, the future Cape Air aircraft would have been a turboprop. For one thing, in some of the colder climates in which they operate, it would obviate the need to preheat piston engines.
 
AvGeekBOS
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:34 pm

Turboprops are more expensive to operate and require additional training, so it makes far more sense for Cape Air to stick with pistons. For the short flights they operate (kack-KBOS) the extra speed of a turboprop doesn’t outweigh lower maintenance and operating costs.
 
AviationAddict
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:08 pm

RobertS975 wrote:
AviationAddict wrote:
jworks158 wrote:
Cape Air took delivery of the first two Tecnam P2012s this past week so time to start looking for them at BOS https://www.tecnam.com/slider-home-en/c ... -aircraft/


I can't remember where I read this so don't take it as gospel but I believe the first handful are being sent out to either the Montana or Missouri (can't remember which) bases. It might be a while before BOS sees regular service with the P2012s.


On a side note, it looks like the livery might be slightly different, more grayish blue than royal/dark blue on the tail. It could just be the lighting though. Either way, it's a great looking plane.

https://media.tecnam.org/2019/07/22/cap ... -aircraft/


You would think that in this day and age, the future Cape Air aircraft would have been a turboprop. For one thing, in some of the colder climates in which they operate, it would obviate the need to preheat piston engines.


The company has stated multiple times that they were never in the market for a turboprop. Partially due to cost but also because TPs are not ideal for the quick turns 9K does during their busy seasons.
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:51 am

I tend to compare BOS & YUL and am so intrigued by how YUL can support 3x daily YUL-MEX on Aeromexico and Interjet, yet BOS couldn’t even support 1x less-than-daily on AM. How does YUL have so many flights to Mexico?
 
alexdelzotto1
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:44 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
I tend to compare BOS & YUL and am so intrigued by how YUL can support 3x daily YUL-MEX on Aeromexico and Interjet, yet BOS couldn’t even support 1x less-than-daily on AM. How does YUL have so many flights to Mexico?


4 daily

2 Aeromexico
1 Interjet
1 Air Canada
 
Mat1776
Posts: 21
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:44 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
I tend to compare BOS & YUL and am so intrigued by how YUL can support 3x daily YUL-MEX on Aeromexico and Interjet, yet BOS couldn’t even support 1x less-than-daily on AM. How does YUL have so many flights to Mexico?

Interesting observation.

If I had to hazard a guess, one of the reasons may be because there are multiple convenient and reasonably-priced one-stop options for a Boston O/D passengers to/from MEX, whereas there aren't too many convenient one-stop options available that does not force the YUL O/D passengers to go through the U.S. immigration process.
 
RobertS975
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:21 pm

Mat1776 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
I tend to compare BOS & YUL and am so intrigued by how YUL can support 3x daily YUL-MEX on Aeromexico and Interjet, yet BOS couldn’t even support 1x less-than-daily on AM. How does YUL have so many flights to Mexico?

Interesting observation.

If I had to hazard a guess, one of the reasons may be because there are multiple convenient and reasonably-priced one-stop options for a Boston O/D passengers to/from MEX, whereas there aren't too many convenient one-stop options available that does not force the YUL O/D passengers to go through the U.S. immigration process.


True, but in most instances, the US CBP clearance would take place in Canada before the initial flight.
 
PartsGuy20
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 24, 2019 3:43 pm

jworks158 wrote:
Cape Air took delivery of the first two Tecnam P2012s this past week so time to start looking for them at BOS https://www.tecnam.com/slider-home-en/c ... -aircraft/


They accepted the aircraft in Italy but they expect it'll be a couple of weeks before they make it to HYA from what I hear. They plan to start operating them by the end of August or sometime in September, and it sounds like they plan on keeping them close to HYA for a while until they gain more operating experience with them (pilots, mx crew, etc.). I wouldn't be surprised to see them in BOS before too long, but doubtful to see them anywhere outside of New England in the near term (well, aside from Capua, Italy...).

They'll eventually make it to their other bases in Montana, the Caribbean, etc. but probably not until sometime next year at the earliest.
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:36 pm

RobertS975 wrote:
Mat1776 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
I tend to compare BOS & YUL and am so intrigued by how YUL can support 3x daily YUL-MEX on Aeromexico and Interjet, yet BOS couldn’t even support 1x less-than-daily on AM. How does YUL have so many flights to Mexico?

Interesting observation.

If I had to hazard a guess, one of the reasons may be because there are multiple convenient and reasonably-priced one-stop options for a Boston O/D passengers to/from MEX, whereas there aren't too many convenient one-stop options available that does not force the YUL O/D passengers to go through the U.S. immigration process.


True, but in most instances, the US CBP clearance would take place in Canada before the initial flight.


That was my initial thought as well. Is there some large Mexican community in YUL I’m not aware of? Wanting to avoid US CBP I get, but YUL having 4x daily YUL-MEX just to avoid US CBP is excessive. Something else is at play here that I’m missing.
 
B757rocket
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:27 pm

YouTube video of Logan “flyover” showing completed construction phases:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kDTQ5ANKVjo
 
Sancho
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:32 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
RobertS975 wrote:
Mat1776 wrote:
Interesting observation.

If I had to hazard a guess, one of the reasons may be because there are multiple convenient and reasonably-priced one-stop options for a Boston O/D passengers to/from MEX, whereas there aren't too many convenient one-stop options available that does not force the YUL O/D passengers to go through the U.S. immigration process.


True, but in most instances, the US CBP clearance would take place in Canada before the initial flight.


That was my initial thought as well. Is there some large Mexican community in YUL I’m not aware of? Wanting to avoid US CBP I get, but YUL having 4x daily YUL-MEX just to avoid US CBP is excessive. Something else is at play here that I’m missing.


Probably is a bit of everything:
Tourism: YUL is more accesible to mexicans since Canada doesn't require a visa and is common for mexicans to finish/start their holidays & tours in that region of when visiting Toronto, Niagara, Quebec City, etc. Also I think some of the mexican tourist that go to BOS probably arrive first in NYC.
Business: May be there are more business ties between MEX and YUL vs. MEX & BOS, don't know, just guessing.
Migration: Don't know which community is bigger but definitely VFR is easier to YUL than to BOS because of visa requirement.
YUL hub: AC offers very good connections with very competitive prices to Europe through it's YUL hub.

My 2 cents

Sancho
 
swinch
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:36 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
RobertS975 wrote:
Mat1776 wrote:
Interesting observation.

If I had to hazard a guess, one of the reasons may be because there are multiple convenient and reasonably-priced one-stop options for a Boston O/D passengers to/from MEX, whereas there aren't too many convenient one-stop options available that does not force the YUL O/D passengers to go through the U.S. immigration process.


True, but in most instances, the US CBP clearance would take place in Canada before the initial flight.


That was my initial thought as well. Is there some large Mexican community in YUL I’m not aware of? Wanting to avoid US CBP I get, but YUL having 4x daily YUL-MEX just to avoid US CBP is excessive. Something else is at play here that I’m missing.


This is more of an educated guess, but I'm pretty sure those flights are fueled through the enormous Canada-Mexico tourism market. Mexico City may not be the Caribbean getaway that other Mexican locations offer, but I'd imagine it attracts similar kinds of visitors.
 
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N717TW
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:17 am

Sancho wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
RobertS975 wrote:

True, but in most instances, the US CBP clearance would take place in Canada before the initial flight.


That was my initial thought as well. Is there some large Mexican community in YUL I’m not aware of? Wanting to avoid US CBP I get, but YUL having 4x daily YUL-MEX just to avoid US CBP is excessive. Something else is at play here that I’m missing.


Probably is a bit of everything:
Tourism: YUL is more accesible to mexicans since Canada doesn't require a visa and is common for mexicans to finish/start their holidays & tours in that region of when visiting Toronto, Niagara, Quebec City, etc. Also I think some of the mexican tourist that go to BOS probably arrive first in NYC.
Business: May be there are more business ties between MEX and YUL vs. MEX & BOS, don't know, just guessing.
Migration: Don't know which community is bigger but definitely VFR is easier to YUL than to BOS because of visa requirement.
YUL hub: AC offers very good connections with very competitive prices to Europe through it's YUL hub.

My 2 cents

Sancho


Besides the other stated reasons: There is also more online and interline connecting to Europe through YUL and YYZ because there isn't a need to process through customs simply for the purpose of connecting. I still don't understand why the US (with the lone exception at ANC) won't allow for customs-free international transfers. MIA used to have a huge Europe to Latin America transfer business--Iberia even had a small hub there with a DC-9 base. If allowed, Logan would be a natural location with easy access to Eastern Canada and not really. out of the way routings to western S. America and Central America. But honestly I don't blame anyone going from EU to the Americas avoiding the US...I wouldn't want to have to clear customs simply. to make a transfer. I did it once several years ago at LHR b/c BA wouldn't interline by bags to VS and it was a pain in the @ss...had to go through customs, get a "transit" visa (not an issue but an extra step for sure), etc. I never made that mistake again and given that the US is even worse with ESTA, I can't imagine anyone willingly transfers in the U.S.
 
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adamh8297
Posts: 3216
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:10 pm

N717TW wrote:
Sancho wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:

That was my initial thought as well. Is there some large Mexican community in YUL I’m not aware of? Wanting to avoid US CBP I get, but YUL having 4x daily YUL-MEX just to avoid US CBP is excessive. Something else is at play here that I’m missing.


Probably is a bit of everything:
Tourism: YUL is more accesible to mexicans since Canada doesn't require a visa and is common for mexicans to finish/start their holidays & tours in that region of when visiting Toronto, Niagara, Quebec City, etc. Also I think some of the mexican tourist that go to BOS probably arrive first in NYC.
Business: May be there are more business ties between MEX and YUL vs. MEX & BOS, don't know, just guessing.
Migration: Don't know which community is bigger but definitely VFR is easier to YUL than to BOS because of visa requirement.
YUL hub: AC offers very good connections with very competitive prices to Europe through it's YUL hub.

My 2 cents

Sancho


Besides the other stated reasons: There is also more online and interline connecting to Europe through YUL and YYZ because there isn't a need to process through customs simply for the purpose of connecting. I still don't understand why the US (with the lone exception at ANC) won't allow for customs-free international transfers. MIA used to have a huge Europe to Latin America transfer business--Iberia even had a small hub there with a DC-9 base. If allowed, Logan would be a natural location with easy access to Eastern Canada and not really. out of the way routings to western S. America and Central America. But honestly I don't blame anyone going from EU to the Americas avoiding the US...I wouldn't want to have to clear customs simply. to make a transfer. I did it once several years ago at LHR b/c BA wouldn't interline by bags to VS and it was a pain in the @ss...had to go through customs, get a "transit" visa (not an issue but an extra step for sure), etc. I never made that mistake again and given that the US is even worse with ESTA, I can't imagine anyone willingly transfers in the U.S.



One more item - Canadians LOVE Pacific Mexican resort areas (PVR, MZT, ACA when it was safer, SJD, HUX, and ZIH) and MEX is a good hub for that. Though the average Bostonian travels well it is probably still less than the average Canadian or Quebecois!
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
hinckley
Posts: 604
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:44 pm

adamh8297 wrote:
One more item - Canadians LOVE Pacific Mexican resort areas (PVR, MZT, ACA when it was safer, SJD, HUX, and ZIH) and MEX is a good hub for that. Though the average Bostonian travels well it is probably still less than the average Canadian or Quebecois!

Canadians - and especially Quebecois - are like the Brits. They flock to low-cost sun destinations (they love Cuba and the DR). I was thinking that that may have something to do with the frequency of the MEX flights, but I couldn't quite connect MEX and beach destinations. You just did that for me. And I think that's certainly one of the big reasons for all those planes heading south from the great white north.
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 2489
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:13 am

adamh8297 wrote:
N717TW wrote:
Sancho wrote:

Probably is a bit of everything:
Tourism: YUL is more accesible to mexicans since Canada doesn't require a visa and is common for mexicans to finish/start their holidays & tours in that region of when visiting Toronto, Niagara, Quebec City, etc. Also I think some of the mexican tourist that go to BOS probably arrive first in NYC.
Business: May be there are more business ties between MEX and YUL vs. MEX & BOS, don't know, just guessing.
Migration: Don't know which community is bigger but definitely VFR is easier to YUL than to BOS because of visa requirement.
YUL hub: AC offers very good connections with very competitive prices to Europe through it's YUL hub.

My 2 cents

Sancho


Besides the other stated reasons: There is also more online and interline connecting to Europe through YUL and YYZ because there isn't a need to process through customs simply for the purpose of connecting. I still don't understand why the US (with the lone exception at ANC) won't allow for customs-free international transfers. MIA used to have a huge Europe to Latin America transfer business--Iberia even had a small hub there with a DC-9 base. If allowed, Logan would be a natural location with easy access to Eastern Canada and not really. out of the way routings to western S. America and Central America. But honestly I don't blame anyone going from EU to the Americas avoiding the US...I wouldn't want to have to clear customs simply. to make a transfer. I did it once several years ago at LHR b/c BA wouldn't interline by bags to VS and it was a pain in the @ss...had to go through customs, get a "transit" visa (not an issue but an extra step for sure), etc. I never made that mistake again and given that the US is even worse with ESTA, I can't imagine anyone willingly transfers in the U.S.



One more item - Canadians LOVE Pacific Mexican resort areas (PVR, MZT, ACA when it was safer, SJD, HUX, and ZIH) and MEX is a good hub for that. Though the average Bostonian travels well it is probably still less than the average Canadian or Quebecois!


Don't forget that the population of Boston comprises of a large fraction of students who might not have passports. So, it is easier for them to go on Spring Break in say Florida then Mexico.
 
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VS4ever
Posts: 2580
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:09 am

F9 adding an additional route out of BOS, now with MIA starting at 4 weekly in Nov.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... -nov-2019/
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
KCaviator
Posts: 239
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:05 pm

Republic (YX) is opening a BOS crew base Dec 1 to support Delta flying. Expect further DL expansion and growth in their newest hub.
 
clrd4t8koff
Posts: 1684
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:57 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:14 pm

LEVEL going daily on BCN-BOS for S20 and flights are now bookable online according to another post here on the site.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1428063
 
clrd4t8koff
Posts: 1684
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:57 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:21 pm

Looks like we're losing some flights on COPA this winter and spring, which is surprising as I thought that would be a busier time for them. Wonder if this is because of the MAX groundings?

CM BOS-PTY DEC 1.6>1.2[1.5] JAN 1.6>1.1[1.5] FEB 1.6>1.0[1.4] MAR 1.6>1.0[1.5] APR 1.6>1.1[1.4]
 
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VS4ever
Posts: 2580
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:22 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
LEVEL going daily on BCN-BOS for S20 and flights are now bookable online according to another post here on the site.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1428063


i would say about freaking time. Those loads at 3 weekly have been nuts (above 90% pretty much constantly), now i know loads<>profit/yield, but given their supposed low cost structure, certainly seemed cause for optimism, It's also curious that DY isn't bringing back MAD-BOS next year, only FCO and CDG.. Not sure if the two are directly correlated, probably not, but that's definitely a show of strength for BOS and a new route that we weren't sure was truly going to work.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
Bluewho
Posts: 168
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:58 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:15 pm

KCaviator wrote:
Republic (YX) is opening a BOS crew base Dec 1 to support Delta flying. Expect further DL expansion and growth in their newest hub.



Wow expansion AND growth, I wonder if the ticket prices will be low and cheap or the delays few and sparse, I know they make and print money there so they say. But remember even with expansion and growth they said they don’t have to be Boston’s largest airline (they never will be) just most loved or something like that while the tout NYs largest airline. ;)

I’m surprised Delta mainline hasn’t opened a base but they have a total mix of airplanes there so I can see how it would be hard. Mainline FAs have a base there not pilots.
 
clrd4t8koff
Posts: 1684
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:57 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:31 pm

VS4ever wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
LEVEL going daily on BCN-BOS for S20 and flights are now bookable online according to another post here on the site.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1428063


i would say about freaking time. Those loads at 3 weekly have been nuts (above 90% pretty much constantly), now i know loads<>profit/yield, but given their supposed low cost structure, certainly seemed cause for optimism, It's also curious that DY isn't bringing back MAD-BOS next year, only FCO and CDG.. Not sure if the two are directly correlated, probably not, but that's definitely a show of strength for BOS and a new route that we weren't sure was truly going to work.


Agreed. Seems like IAG is doing a good job developing BOS. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe even IB is now year round on BOS-MAD, though at a reduced schedule during winter?

I think LEVEL going daily is a good sign that BOS - Europe does have room to grow and I look forward to seeing what additional announcements come for 2020. So far we've had LH upgauging BOS-MUC to A380 and now daily LEVEL, with rumors from the Delta earnings call a week or two back that KE will also be increasing BOS. Fun times ahead :bouncy:
 
EK77WNH
Posts: 193
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:42 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:05 pm

We don’t know what EK’s intentions are for S20, since they switch back to the 77W after December ends, I think.
Next Trip:
JAL 7-8 BOS-NRT-BOS, 787-9
September
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 2489
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:02 pm

I had hoped to see more new destinations (e.g. ATH, DBV, VIE), but it seems like BOS is saturated. At least regarding DY.
 
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VS4ever
Posts: 2580
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:04 pm

EK77WNH wrote:
We don’t know what EK’s intentions are for S20, since they switch back to the 77W after December ends, I think.


The Whale comes from 12/1 to 1/31/20 but you are right we don’t know what the plans are, but unless they are still considering the return of the double daily, I have to think it’s going to come back for the summer period when they need the capacity the most.

As mentioned before KE has always upped Winter to a base 4x and a 5x during Dec/Jan, I could see them trying daily from 3/24 when the new season starts to kick in.

Coupled with Level daily and yes IB is now year round, but 6 weekly in the quiet months, there is still European growth, as of May 19, even with WW gone, the region was up 12% YOY, that’s some growth on what we thought was a saturated market. They keep on coming.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
KCaviator
Posts: 239
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:00 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:38 am

Bluewho wrote:
KCaviator wrote:
Republic (YX) is opening a BOS crew base Dec 1 to support Delta flying. Expect further DL expansion and growth in their newest hub.



Wow expansion AND growth, I wonder if the ticket prices will be low and cheap or the delays few and sparse, I know they make and print money there so they say. But remember even with expansion and growth they said they don’t have to be Boston’s largest airline (they never will be) just most loved or something like that while the tout NYs largest airline. ;)

I’m surprised Delta mainline hasn’t opened a base but they have a total mix of airplanes there so I can see how it would be hard. Mainline FAs have a base there not pilots.


Oh look, an offended JetBlue fanboy.
 
EK77WNH
Posts: 193
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:42 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:01 am

LOT axing flights to ORD and EWR (both 788s). Precursor to coming to Boston?
Next Trip:
JAL 7-8 BOS-NRT-BOS, 787-9
September
 
united75x
Posts: 26
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 2:01 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:30 am

EK77WNH wrote:
LOT axing flights to ORD and EWR (both 788s). Precursor to coming to Boston?


LOT is discontinuing Budapest - Chicago. They still serve Warsaw.
 
clrd4t8koff
Posts: 1684
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:57 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:56 am

Not sure how well LOT would do in BOS. If SK is still struggling I would think LOT would have an even tougher time. Should any additional *A carriers come in I think we'd see Austrian first, then perhaps SN Brussels.

I still think the next European destination from BOS will be either ATH or MXP.
 
iyerhari
Posts: 1095
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:25 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:00 pm

BOS June-2019 numbers are out:

June-2019 total pax: 3,946,406
June-2018 total pax: 3,843,131
AAGR MTM: 2.69%

International pax June-2019: 847,877
International pax June-2018: 742,437
AAGR international MTM: 14.20% (WOW!!) - surprised domestic took a hit

Total pax YTD: 20,357,147
Total pax YTD 2018: 19,435,661
AAGR: 4.7%

Detailed breakdown:
--------------------------------

Jun-19 Jun-18 Difference
Domestic Charter Passenger 626 759 -17.52%
Domestic Commuter Passenger 241,280 212,771 13.40%
Domestic Jet Passenger 2,846,383 2,876,666 -1.05%
Total Domestic Passengers 3,088,289 3,090,196 -0.06%

International
Bermuda/Bahamas/Caribbean 109,218 82,932 31.70%
Canada 95,096 108,720 -12.53%
Central America 23,391 22,720 2.95%
Europe 482,967 421,298 14.64%
Middle East 70,010 55,520 26.10%
South America 7,604 4,308 76.51%
Trans-Pacific 57,917 46,939 23.39%
North Africa 1,674 0 #DIV/0!
Total International passengers 847,877 742,437 14.20%

General Aviation 10,240 10,498 -2.46%
Total Airport pax 3,946,406 3,843,131 2.69%

Enjoy!!
 
OlympicATH
Posts: 211
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2001 8:43 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:00 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
Not sure how well LOT would do in BOS. If SK is still struggling I would think LOT would have an even tougher time. Should any additional *A carriers come in I think we'd see Austrian first, then perhaps SN Brussels.

I still think the next European destination from BOS will be either ATH or MXP.


ATH would make a lot of sense, the traffic is there.
Could that be a seasonal DL service? Not sure if they have 767s based in BOS that could make the flight work though. ATH is not within 757 range and i believe their other Euro seasonal routes (DUB, EDI, LIS) are on 757s?
 
iyerhari
Posts: 1095
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:25 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:26 pm

Quoting flyPit from the PIT aviation forum - https://www.oag.com/hubfs/Free_Reports/ ... b007359cd1

BOS is ranked #4 and is a pretty comprehensive list. The analysis is also pretty nice for BOS.
 
RL757PVD
Posts: 3199
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 2:47 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:27 pm

Wow considering how a growing number of international pax are connecting that implies a few notable soft spots on domestic capacity, curious who the big culprits are... WN? AA?
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
iyerhari
Posts: 1095
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:25 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:30 pm

RL757PVD wrote:
Wow considering how a growing number of international pax are connecting that implies a few notable soft spots on domestic capacity, curious who the big culprits are... WN? AA?

I agree - even if i was surprised. AA has not retrenched any routes. DL adds starts from September so we should see an uptick there. But international is going big guns. VS4ever would have detailed stats - if my memory serves right from his analysis, June, July, August and September are some of the largest international swings.
 
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mikegigs
Posts: 237
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:38 pm

OlympicATH wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
Not sure how well LOT would do in BOS. If SK is still struggling I would think LOT would have an even tougher time. Should any additional *A carriers come in I think we'd see Austrian first, then perhaps SN Brussels.

I still think the next European destination from BOS will be either ATH or MXP.


ATH would make a lot of sense, the traffic is there.
Could that be a seasonal DL service? Not sure if they have 767s based in BOS that could make the flight work though. ATH is not within 757 range and i believe their other Euro seasonal routes (DUB, EDI, LIS) are on 757s?


EDI and LIS are on 757's, but DUB (as well as CDG and LHR seasonally, and a seasonal second daily AMS) are all on 763's. I've often seen three DL 763's on the groun at BOS at the same time so as long as they have the fleet capacity, it shouldn't be too difficult rotating another in. Gate space, however, may be another issue.
Airports: BOS, JAX, JFK, EWR, LGA, CVG, ATL, CLT, DCA, IAD, STT, PVD, ALB, MCO
Aircraft: 733, 735, 73G, 738, 752, 717, A319, A320, MD-88, E190, E175, E145, CRJ-200, CRJ-700, Q400
Airlines: B6, CO, DL, US, NW, WN, DH
...a good start but a long way to go!
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8488
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:02 pm

Bluewho wrote:
KCaviator wrote:
Republic (YX) is opening a BOS crew base Dec 1 to support Delta flying. Expect further DL expansion and growth in their newest hub.



Wow expansion AND growth, I wonder if the ticket prices will be low and cheap or the delays few and sparse, I know they make and print money there so they say. But remember even with expansion and growth they said they don’t have to be Boston’s largest airline (they never will be) just most loved or something like that while the tout NYs largest airline. ;)

I’m surprised Delta mainline hasn’t opened a base but they have a total mix of airplanes there so I can see how it would be hard. Mainline FAs have a base there not pilots.


You're saying DL never will be Boston's largest airline? I'll take that bet. Never is a long time. DL has widebodies and international partner JVs and equity investments, not just code-sharing. DL will surpass B6 in RPMs - if B6 doesn't get bought first.

Delta IS NYC's largest airline by flights, if not by passenger count, and it's not even close across JFK/LGA/EWR. See FSDan's work earlier this year. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1420613&start=100

NYC (EWR + LGA + JFK) total departures:
DL - 555, 47.7% mainline, 45.6% large RJ, 6.7% 50-seater
UA - 473, 56.0% mainline, 16.9% large RJ, 27.1% 50-seater

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