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adamh8297
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:52 pm

DOT Table 6 for Q1 2019 came out this week.

Top 10 Markets unserved from BOS for the Quarter and PDEW for each market was:

1)SAT - 160
2)TUS - 90
3)SDF- 84
4)MEM -78
5)ABQ -75
6)EYW-66 Hmmm.... Interesting to see if there is a boost in 2020 maybe 80-85 from the new flight.
7)GSP-64
8)OMA-58
9)RNO-54
10)GRR-54

Also MSN, usually in the top 10 and planned to be served seasonally by SY, just missed the top 10 with 52.

I will do the gainers and losers after VS4ever does the rest of the T100 analysis.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
jplatts
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:24 pm

VS4ever wrote:
MCI - not much to write home about here, nobody is really setting the world on fire with regional service. 9E is the best of course.

9E BOS-MCI 338 25679 21616 84.2%
OO BOS-MCI 46 3226 2512 77.9%
WN BOS-MCI 290 45694 31389 68.7%
YX BOS-MCI 386 28069 18614 66.3%

MKE - this one surprised me, thought WN would be bigger to MKE, but it's only around 51/49 in favor of WN.

OO BOS-MKE 815 57074 44744 78.4%
WN BOS-MKE 431 64033 47094 73.5%


WN is going to be dropping BOS-MCI and BOS-MKE nonstop service on January 5, 2020.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:40 pm

September board deck for Massport, http://www.massport.com/media/3417/webs ... _91919.pdf, plenty of push about ORH and a whole bunch of financials, interesting they are giving back $9m to the airlines because Massport's performance outdid expectations.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
massachoicetts
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:14 pm

This might be a thin question - but - does anyone know roughly how much larger the BOS - LHR route will increase in pax in Y2019 from Y2018. 2018 was about 849.3k passengers, and this year, what range is it expected to fall under? 900k - 940k or perhaps, 1 Million?....
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:51 pm

massachoicetts wrote:
This might be a thin question - but - does anyone know roughly how much larger the BOS - LHR route will increase in pax in Y2019 from Y2018. 2018 was about 849.3k passengers, and this year, what range is it expected to fall under? 900k - 940k or perhaps, 1 Million?....


It isn't going to be 1m for 2019, not by a long shot. Having pulled the numbers for 2019 thru October from the CAA website, it's currently sitting at 820K. Last year there were 119K pax in Nov/Dec combined, so that would take you to 939K, average uplift to 2019 this year is around 12%, although Sep/Oct were 13% up on last year. If you add 12% to the 849K from last year, it gets you to 951K or thereabouts. So my guess is somewhere in the 950-960K range based on this.

Now for 2020, 1m is quite the possibility, the first 3 months of 19 do not have the 2nd daily VS flight in them, so that will be additional, then the AA flight on the 772ER from 3/28, has 273 seats daily each way, if you assume this is incremental (not a perfect science) and runs from 3/28 to say 10/20 roughly, that's 207 days or 414 flights, at an 80% load factor, that nets you 180K passengers, which would drive way over 1m. My thought is that some of the others will re-adjust slightly, so let's say the incremental is closer to 125K, still puts you over 1m next year by some margin.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:58 am

Couple things to report back on:

Tuesday 11/19 I flew KE 92 BOS-ICN in J and it was pretty much full. I saw 1 open J seat. I got lucky and got a window seat in the old F section they sell now as J. It was so nice to leave at 11am as terminal E was dead. Love that KE is doing well and look forward to the 77W next year.

Just flew back on BR56 (TPE-ORD) in J. VERY lite load, which might explain why OZ is dropping ORD and AA pulled all ORD-Asia flights. But what really sucked is the transfer from ORD int’l terminal 5 back to the domestic terminals via bus that uses the normal roads and SITS in traffic. It makes connecting in BOS and walking in the enclosed walkways from E to A & B & C a BREEZE! Transferring here in ORD is the worst arrivals experience I’ve ever been through in the US when connecting on to a domestic flight. And I’ve arrived in LAX & JFK which can be tough. ORD was wayyyy worse. I thought they had an airside train??
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:58 am

So what does everything think about BOS being SQ’s next US destination?
Last edited by clrd4t8koff on Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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ChrisNH38
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:46 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
So what does everyone think about BOS being SQ’s next US destination?


Of the cities in contention (supposedly), I think BOS comes up last. Eventually, maybe, but IMO not this go-around.
https://my.flightradar24.com/ChrisNH
 
TheChickenman
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:48 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
I thought they had an airside train??


They do, but it's currently undergoing repairs/maintenance. Apparently it's an oddity among people-mover trains, and so the parts are harder to come by and it's taking longer than expected.
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:09 am

TheChickenman wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
I thought they had an airside train??


They do, but it's currently undergoing repairs/maintenance. Apparently it's an oddity among people-mover trains, and so the parts are harder to come by and it's taking longer than expected.


This has been going on for at least a year + now, no? What made this even worse was there was a homeless woman who smelled like a port-a-potty riding the bus between the terminals and wouldn’t get off. It was the worst 30-min bus ride of my life. It smelled like 10-day old urine.
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:15 am

ChrisNH38 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
So what does everyone think about BOS being SQ’s next US destination?


Of the cities in contention (supposedly), I think BOS comes up last. Eventually, maybe, but IMO not this go-around.


Just curious - why do you think BOS comes up last vs the other cities (YYZ, IAH or ORD)?
 
iyerhari
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:01 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
Couple things to report back on:

Tuesday 11/19 I flew KE 92 BOS-ICN in J and it was pretty much full. I saw 1 open J seat. I got lucky and got a window seat in the old F section they sell now as J. It was so nice to leave at 11am as terminal E was dead. Love that KE is doing well and look forward to the 77W next year.

Just flew back on BR56 (TPE-ORD) in J. VERY lite load, which might explain why OZ is dropping ORD and AA pulled all ORD-Asia flights. But what really sucked is the transfer from ORD int’l terminal 5 back to the domestic terminals via bus that uses the normal roads and SITS in traffic. It makes connecting in BOS and walking in the enclosed walkways from E to A & B & C a BREEZE! Transferring here in ORD is the worst arrivals experience I’ve ever been through in the US when connecting on to a domestic flight. And I’ve arrived in LAX & JFK which can be tough. ORD was wayyyy worse. I thought they had an airside train??

ORD domestic transfers are good if you are affiliated to the same airline e.g. AA or UA. International transfers using T5 are not easy and you are correct about it. The people mover train stopped sometime in 2018 late and was expected to be completed Fall 2019. I do not think it's ready. ORD also has a new rental car center that was moved in a similar manner to Logan. My understanding is that all these will be connected using the people mover system. I think there is significant delay in this project. BOS would be far easier as the walk between terminals is significantly short - and with B-C-E connector once gets completed, the experience would be even more better.
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:54 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
ChrisNH38 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
So what does everyone think about BOS being SQ’s next US destination?


Of the cities in contention (supposedly), I think BOS comes up last. Eventually, maybe, but IMO not this go-around.


Just curious - why do you think BOS comes up last vs the other cities (YYZ, IAH or ORD)?


I'd put BOS on par with ORD as the top 2 potential destinations. Of course SQ could have a different opinion :)
IAH is way out of range. IAD just doesn't have the tech or finance sectors that BOS has IMO. YYZ is a close third for me, because AC seems to have a lot of protection from the Canadian government and A++ JV. SQ doesn't code-share with UA, instead they code-share with B6. Combine the B6 feed plus the latest SQ earnings call where they said the sectors driving the ULH routes are Tech, Professional services, and Finance and that puts BOS in a very strong position, IMO. ORD may still get the nod because it might be a larger overall market.
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:04 pm

airbazar wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
ChrisNH38 wrote:

Of the cities in contention (supposedly), I think BOS comes up last. Eventually, maybe, but IMO not this go-around.


Just curious - why do you think BOS comes up last vs the other cities (YYZ, IAH or ORD)?


I'd put BOS on par with ORD as the top 2 potential destinations. Of course SQ could have a different opinion :)
IAH is way out of range. IAD just doesn't have the tech or finance sectors that BOS has IMO. YYZ is a close third for me, because AC seems to have a lot of protection from the Canadian government and A++ JV. SQ doesn't code-share with UA, instead they code-share with B6. Combine the B6 feed plus the latest SQ earnings call where they said the sectors driving the ULH routes are Tech, Professional services, and Finance and that puts BOS in a very strong position, IMO. ORD may still get the nod because it might be a larger overall market.


BOS - has the tech/financial links to SIN but the beyond traffic may be tough with Indonesia/Malaysia/Thailand.

HKG is a much better fit from a connecting traffic flow perspective (Indochina is major source of VFR filling the back of the plane) but if things change there then BOS-SIN becomes highly likely in the future.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:15 pm

airbazar wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
ChrisNH38 wrote:

Of the cities in contention (supposedly), I think BOS comes up last. Eventually, maybe, but IMO not this go-around.


Just curious - why do you think BOS comes up last vs the other cities (YYZ, IAH or ORD)?


I'd put BOS on par with ORD as the top 2 potential destinations. Of course SQ could have a different opinion :)
IAH is way out of range. IAD just doesn't have the tech or finance sectors that BOS has IMO. YYZ is a close third for me, because AC seems to have a lot of protection from the Canadian government and A++ JV. SQ doesn't code-share with UA, instead they code-share with B6. Combine the B6 feed plus the latest SQ earnings call where they said the sectors driving the ULH routes are Tech, Professional services, and Finance and that puts BOS in a very strong position, IMO. ORD may still get the nod because it might be a larger overall market.


The other thing folks are forgetting is that SIN already flies to IAH via 5th freedom of MAN so it's SIN-MAN-IAH, the question is, is there enough to warrant removing that, starting direct and maybe doing the 5th freedom to BOS or ORD instead?
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:30 pm

In my dreams I would rather have SQ here via LHR than a non-stop to SIN :)
They could probably make it happen with a pair of mid-day slots at LHR which might not be prohibitively expensive. But I know that realistically that's not happening.
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 25, 2019 6:28 pm

airbazar wrote:
In my dreams I would rather have SQ here via LHR than a non-stop to SIN :)
They could probably make it happen with a pair of mid-day slots at LHR which might not be prohibitively expensive. But I know that realistically that's not happening.


I would love to see any of these:

SIN-GVA/BRU/MXP/LHR/NRT/ICN-BOS
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 25, 2019 8:22 pm

TP have finally loaded their PDL non-stop, 5 weekly, doesn't run Tuesday's and Friday's as far as I can tell

TP219 PDL1540 – 1720BOS 32Q x25
TP220 BOS2230 – 0720+1PDL 32Q x25

On google flights (where I got this data from for source purposes), on a sample Wed 8th July, returning Wed 15th July, it's $549, compared to S4's $1,259.....
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:14 am

This has come up before but BOS has the second highest amount of indirect bookings to/from CUN out of USA destinations.

https://www.anna.aero/2019/11/22/cancun ... t-returns/

NK/F9 has to try it at some point. They can take the low fare pax legacies and B6 don't want to add capacity for.

I wonder if DL (or even AA) would put a spare wide body on it at some point since the majority of passengers fly on the weekends.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
massachoicetts
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:47 am

Would love to see a P2P route on United. Every airline (AA, DL, US, CO, TW, NW, BF, PA, etc) has had a a P2P BOS route...juat not United. Maybe we can see something from them? Maybe UA can plop a CUN or MBJ once a week?
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 26, 2019 2:34 am

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... poct-2020/

SAS fixed the aircraft change for fall 2020, note that the route is planned to stay daily at least through 10/24.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 26, 2019 3:32 am

massachoicetts wrote:
Would love to see a P2P route on United. Every airline (AA, DL, US, CO, TW, NW, BF, PA, etc) has had a a P2P BOS route...juat not United. Maybe we can see something from them? Maybe UA can plop a CUN or MBJ once a week?


UA did run BOS-LHR for bit and per departedflights SWF and HPN via United Express in the early 90's.

More on BOS-CUN in 2018

Total passengers/seats = LF%
113802/127192 = 89.5% - Some were connecting but probably not a lot.

B6 65400/74968 = 87.2%
1-8 weekly year round depending on month - worst loads in September/October which is actually 2 weekly

DL 36456/39104 = 93.2%
1-8 weekly depending on month - nothing September/October

AA 11946/13120 = 91.1%
Saturday only except September/October and a week here and there in August/November
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
rnav2dlrey
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 26, 2019 8:16 am

massachoicetts wrote:
Would love to see a P2P route on United. Every airline (AA, DL, US, CO, TW, NW, BF, PA, etc) has had a a P2P BOS route...juat not United. Maybe we can see something from them? Maybe UA can plop a CUN or MBJ once a week?


same, but as a *A flyer i’d rather start with NH and OZ serving BOS (which should have happened by now, based on the successes of JL and KE).

i don’t quite see a market UA could serve P2P. LHR would be a potentially good use of a 752, and UA might be able to find a niche because of the fantastic *A gold experience at LHR, but there’s too much capacity and competition on the route. warm weather destinations generally don’t provide high yields that would make them a wise use of a frame in a stretched domestic fleet. CLE could work (again) because of a strong cleveland POS, but UA seems to have no interest.
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 26, 2019 1:19 pm

rnav2dlrey wrote:
massachoicetts wrote:
Would love to see a P2P route on United. Every airline (AA, DL, US, CO, TW, NW, BF, PA, etc) has had a a P2P BOS route...juat not United. Maybe we can see something from them? Maybe UA can plop a CUN or MBJ once a week?


same, but as a *A flyer i’d rather start with NH and OZ serving BOS (which should have happened by now, based on the successes of JL and KE).

i don’t quite see a market UA could serve P2P. LHR would be a potentially good use of a 752, and UA might be able to find a niche because of the fantastic *A gold experience at LHR, but there’s too much capacity and competition on the route.


There's zero competition for *A FF customers tho. BOS-LHR is begging for UA to return. I don't think UA flies any 752's to LHR so the smallest plane you'd get is a 763. LHR is a UA Focus City and a significant *A hub. Heck they have their own terminal. The A++ alliance has so many slots at LHR, surely they could shuffle a pair. UA could rotate any type of aircraft from there and run a LHR-BOS-LHR route.
And yes, I also think that ANA is long overdue here.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:01 pm

ok, I have a question about VR (Cabo Verde) as my limited brain is struggling to figure this one out.

They recently announced the flight to SID, which makes sense, given the timings

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... e%20boston

it's a long time on the ground in BOS from 14.10 on Monday to 08.30 on Tuesday, but still makes sense logically.

VR690 SID1000 – 1410BOS 752 1
VR691 BOS0830 – 2000SID 752 2

However the timings to RAI, are just plain wierd

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... e%20boston

VR690 RAI0300 – 0710BOS 752 6
VR691 BOS1540 – 0310+1RAI 752 2

Arrives Saturday and leaves Tuesday, now no self respecting airline is going to leave an aircraft on the ground for 3 days, so my question is what am I missing, is this somehow linked to FI and their schedule, but I don't see that set up in the schedules, I am definitely missing something, I am just not sure what.

EDIT: I think the above reporting is incorrect by routesonline, investigating further.

In other news, congratulations to all on this thread. We've just surpassed the number of comments from 2018 with over a month to go.. Impressive..2,500+ here we come.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
RL757PVD
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:14 pm

VS4ever wrote:
ok, I have a question about VR (Cabo Verde) as my limited brain is struggling to figure this one out.

They recently announced the flight to SID, which makes sense, given the timings

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... e%20boston

it's a long time on the ground in BOS from 14.10 on Monday to 08.30 on Tuesday, but still makes sense logically.

VR690 SID1000 – 1410BOS 752 1
VR691 BOS0830 – 2000SID 752 2

However the timings to RAI, are just plain wierd

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... e%20boston

VR690 RAI0300 – 0710BOS 752 6
VR691 BOS1540 – 0310+1RAI 752 2

Arrives Saturday and leaves Tuesday, now no self respecting airline is going to leave an aircraft on the ground for 3 days, so my question is what am I missing, is this somehow linked to FI and their schedule, but I don't see that set up in the schedules, I am definitely missing something, I am just not sure what.

EDIT: I think the above reporting is incorrect by routesonline, investigating further.

In other news, congratulations to all on this thread. We've just surpassed the number of comments from 2018 with over a month to go.. Impressive..2,500+ here we come.


It likely ties into other routes in their network.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:20 pm

I just stumbled upon this page, don't know if it's been shared before but wow:
https://www.anna.aero/2019/11/01/reveal ... ess-class/
BOS is BA's 3rd busiest route for P2P business class passengers, and highest yielding route.
And people still say this route is over served. Crazy.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:37 pm

Ok figured it out. Indeed Routes had got it messed up completely.

Tuesday:
Inbound from SID at 14.10, leaves for RAI at 15.40

Saturday
Inbound from RAI at 7.10, leaves for SID at 8.10

ahhhh, I can relax now...
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
RL757PVD
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:43 pm

airbazar wrote:
I just stumbled upon this page, don't know if it's been shared before but wow:
https://www.anna.aero/2019/11/01/reveal ... ess-class/
BOS is BA's 3rd busiest route for P2P business class passengers, and highest yielding route.
And people still say this route is over served. Crazy.


Of course the P2P business is booming because all the previous connecting traffic now has nonstop options. That plus nonstop fares are always higher yielding than connecting fares meaning when you really think about it, this should not be a surprise or news to anyone,

Expect B6 to have a two-fronted battle as BA joins DL in ensuring B6 does not succeed on London
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
rnav2dlrey
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 26, 2019 8:12 pm

airbazar wrote:
rnav2dlrey wrote:
massachoicetts wrote:
Would love to see a P2P route on United. Every airline (AA, DL, US, CO, TW, NW, BF, PA, etc) has had a a P2P BOS route...juat not United. Maybe we can see something from them? Maybe UA can plop a CUN or MBJ once a week?


same, but as a *A flyer i’d rather start with NH and OZ serving BOS (which should have happened by now, based on the successes of JL and KE).

i don’t quite see a market UA could serve P2P. LHR would be a potentially good use of a 752, and UA might be able to find a niche because of the fantastic *A gold experience at LHR, but there’s too much capacity and competition on the route.


There's zero competition for *A FF customers tho. BOS-LHR is begging for UA to return. I don't think UA flies any 752's to LHR so the smallest plane you'd get is a 763. LHR is a UA Focus City and a significant *A hub. Heck they have their own terminal. The A++ alliance has so many slots at LHR, surely they could shuffle a pair. UA could rotate any type of aircraft from there and run a LHR-BOS-LHR route.
And yes, I also think that ANA is long overdue here.


i'm actually on a UA 752 tomorrow LHR-IAD. UA is almost forced to use a 752 on IAD-LHR during the winter months because the loads get so light, yet they can't just drop one of the three daily frequencies because LHR slots are "use it, or lose it." i wish UA would shift one of those frequencies to BOS in the offseason - the loads/yields likely couldn't/wouldn't be worse than IAD.

i have a pipe dream of UA opening a 757 mini-hub in BOS. the 752 fleet is entirely lie-flat now, and most have the RR engines and are ETOPS certified. they could fly BOS-LHR/LAX/SFO. heck, maybe even start BOS-SNA.
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 26, 2019 8:48 pm

RL757PVD wrote:
airbazar wrote:
I just stumbled upon this page, don't know if it's been shared before but wow:
https://www.anna.aero/2019/11/01/reveal ... ess-class/
BOS is BA's 3rd busiest route for P2P business class passengers, and highest yielding route.
And people still say this route is over served. Crazy.


Of course the P2P business is booming because all the previous connecting traffic now has nonstop options. That plus nonstop fares are always higher yielding than connecting fares meaning when you really think about it, this should not be a surprise or news to anyone,


I'm not sure I follow any of what you just typed.
What previous connecting traffic? BA has always had multiple daily flights. BOS has always had multiple airlines flying non-stop service to London. In the past we even had both AA and UA flying BOS-LON. With 772's. I'm not even sure that supply has gone up that much from the days when DL was 2x daily, AA was 2x daily, BA was 4x daily, plus VS at 1x.
Also not sure why you're mentioning non-stop fares vs. connecting? The article is entirely about comparing non-stop(p2p) pax, fares, and yields across multiple BA routes. To me it's surprising that LHR-BOS has higher yields than LHR-JFK, for example. It tells me that fares are still too high and there's plenty of room for increased competition.
 
RL757PVD
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 26, 2019 9:08 pm

airbazar wrote:
RL757PVD wrote:
airbazar wrote:
I just stumbled upon this page, don't know if it's been shared before but wow:
https://www.anna.aero/2019/11/01/reveal ... ess-class/
BOS is BA's 3rd busiest route for P2P business class passengers, and highest yielding route.
And people still say this route is over served. Crazy.


Of course the P2P business is booming because all the previous connecting traffic now has nonstop options. That plus nonstop fares are always higher yielding than connecting fares meaning when you really think about it, this should not be a surprise or news to anyone,


I'm not sure I follow any of what you just typed.
What previous connecting traffic? BA has always had multiple daily flights. BOS has always had multiple airlines flying non-stop service to London. In the past we even had both AA and UA flying BOS-LON. With 772's. I'm not even sure that supply has gone up that much from the days when DL was 2x daily, AA was 2x daily, BA was 4x daily, plus VS at 1x.
Also not sure why you're mentioning non-stop fares vs. connecting? The article is entirely about comparing non-stop(p2p) pax, fares, and yields across multiple BA routes. To me it's surprising that LHR-BOS has higher yields than LHR-JFK, for example. It tells me that fares are still too high and there's plenty of room for increased competition.


Put together a list of nonstop international destinations that BOS has now that they didnt have 10 years ago. Those people used to fly over LHR by necessity not by choice, these new options have taken the connecting traffic off of LHR resulting in a higher O&D traffic %.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Nov 27, 2019 2:12 am

Tonight's question is a curious one..

Will TP's new PDL flight depart from C like the LIS one does? I mean it's not like C has a ton of space, but... for consistency purposes, wouldn't it make sense?
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
FGITD
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Nov 27, 2019 2:22 am

VS4ever wrote:
Tonight's question is a curious one..

Will TP's new PDL flight depart from C like the LIS one does? I mean it's not like C has a ton of space, but... for consistency purposes, wouldn't it make sense?



Operationally it would be possible, though be it incredibly inconvenient.

But definitely going to use C for the sake of consistency and convenience. Also more cost effective!
 
jworks158
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Nov 27, 2019 2:46 pm

Via @ChrisNH38 & Airline route

AirFrance Schedules one time, one way A350 service in Oct 2020
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/287782/air-france-tentative-schedules-one-time-a350-us-paris-flights-in-oct-2020/
(A359,A343/A346,A332,A319/320/321,A220-100)(B788,B772,B762,B752,B744/B748,B732/B737/B738,B717)(E190,E145)(CRJ100/200, Dash 8-200)(MD-83)
JB,UA(C5,EV,CHQ,AX),AA(EGF,ZW,AX,PT),DL(OH,YX),FL,WN,LH,BA,AF,AZ,IB,VX,CO
https://my.flightradar24.com/theorangetechie
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Nov 27, 2019 3:30 pm

RL757PVD wrote:
Put together a list of nonstop international destinations that BOS has now that they didnt have 10 years ago. Those people used to fly over LHR by necessity not by choice, these new options have taken the connecting traffic off of LHR resulting in a higher O&D traffic %.

It's an interesting thought but I'm not buying it. If that was true then JFK should absolutely have higher yields since they have a lot more nonstop international destinations than BOS. But unlike BOS, JFK has a lot of spare capacity. I still believe the yields are high because of a combination of 2 factors: low supply + shorter route. Regardless of the reasons, I still find that LHR-BOS being BA's top yielding route in their entire Global network is quite telling and surprising.

FGITD wrote:
Operationally it would be possible, though be it incredibly inconvenient.
But definitely going to use C for the sake of consistency and convenience. Also more cost effective!

"C" is relative right? Unlike the A330, the A321 should have no problem using gates C5,6,7 which are actually gates E1,2,3. The other question is whether it will remain at the gate or not. Most likely it won't. That schedule has a long ground time.
 
FGITD
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:24 pm

airbazar wrote:

FGITD wrote:
Operationally it would be possible, though be it incredibly inconvenient.
But definitely going to use C for the sake of consistency and convenience. Also more cost effective!

"C" is relative right? Unlike the A330, the A321 should have no problem using gates C5,6,7 which are actually gates E1,2,3. The other question is whether it will remain at the gate or not. Most likely it won't. That schedule has a long ground time.



This is definitely true. It can use the CE gates, but I wouldn't be too surprised if it used the same gate as the 330, again just for convenience and continuity sake.

That AF 350 is very intriguing given that it's scheduled for the AF322/321 rotation, which is not really AFs primary flight.

As a friendly reminder though...I did say more a350s were coming! But a single one off flight doesn't really count...
 
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ChrisNH38
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:51 pm

I read through the post on the AF A350, and, yes, it is stated as a 'one-way' event (does it fly EMPTY to Boston???). But it also went on to say that the carrier is still in the midst of fleshing things out and that more details would be forthcoming.
https://my.flightradar24.com/ChrisNH
 
FGITD
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Nov 27, 2019 7:24 pm

So I'll outline a few further points of interest.

AF321 of 25Oct looks to be the last of the 2nd daily flight from BOS-CDG, which lines up with the EU DST-the usual indicator of the summer vs winter schedule.

SO that means either they're adjusting schedules, new types, dates, times etc. Playing around with it, basically.

Or they're actually rotating in a 350 to BOS to operate a return leg to CDG. Although there is still a 772 listed for AF322.

Wild thought, maybe BOS is getting the 350 for the winter, and a different station that gets the 350 over the summer will be getting the 772, resulting in a quick ferry to operate the returns on Oct 24? Would be unusual but not totally inconceivable.

(Just a fun exercise in the "what if...", as I'm sure some of us are ahead of the game and know the plan already)
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Nov 28, 2019 3:13 am

ok, i've finally been able to finish this up. A while back I created a Terminal E analysis (based on an original from someone else), but since then the whole world of E has gone rather nuts to say the least.
Originally I tried to do it on one sheet, but it got so complicated, that I've switched it to a daily view, this now includes all the B6 international arrivals (from non-preclearance), all the new DL and AA flights, SY, F9, HA and so on. I think I have picked up everything, but if you spot something missing, please let me know. Anyway, heres the link to take a look, Saturday evening is scary... just saying..

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
iyerhari
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Nov 28, 2019 3:41 am

BOS Oct-2019 numbers are out.

Oct-2019 total pax: 3,771,212
Oct-2018 total pax: 3,677,823
2019 to 2018 AAGR: 2.54%

YTD 2019 total pax: 35,868,924
YTD 2018 total pax: 34,551,287
AAGR YTD 2019 to 2018: 3.8%

If I use Nov, and Dec-2018 nos. as is assuming there is 0% growth which is not possible: Logan forecast for 2019 comes to: 42,259,562. If I assume a conservative number of 3% growth for Nov and Dec-2019 using 2018 monthly numbers, total pax for Logan comes to: 42,451,281.

International pax as a % of total pax for Oct-2019: 18%

Details:
Oct-19 Oct-18 Difference
Domestic Charter Passenger 736 2220 -66.85%
Domestic Commuter Passenger 260,873 219,023 19.11%
Domestic Jet Passenger 2,813,882 2,791,955 0.79%
Total Domestic Passengers 3,075,491 3,013,198 2.07%

International
Bermuda/Bahamas/Caribbean 75,047 69,891 7.38%
Canada 85,998 92,541 -7.07%
Central America 18,008 19,534 -7.81%
Europe 390,523 365,549 6.83%
Middle East 54,620 48,441 12.76%
South America 8,687 11,556 -24.83%
Trans-Pacific 50,659 44,227 14.54%
North Africa 2,521 0 #DIV/0!
Total International passengers 686,063 651,739 5.27%

General Aviation 9,658 12,886 -25.05%
Total Airport pax 3,771,212 3,677,823 2.54%

WISH YOU AND YOUR FAMILY A VERY HAPPY THANKSGIVING AND WISH THE GROUP MANY MORE TO COME!
 
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ChrisNH38
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Nov 28, 2019 12:59 pm

There are several international carriers that do ‘double-daily’ to Boston in the high season.

Here’s my list of the other airlines and ranking them as to their likelihood of going double themselves in the future:

1.) TK
2.) JL
3.) EK (once their ‘smaller planes’ come into the fleet)
4.) QR with a 787

I can’t think of any others as possible or likely.
https://my.flightradar24.com/ChrisNH
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Nov 28, 2019 3:12 pm

ChrisNH38 wrote:
There are several international carriers that do ‘double-daily’ to Boston in the high season.

Here’s my list of the other airlines and ranking them as to their likelihood of going double themselves in the future:

1.) TK
2.) JL
3.) EK (once their ‘smaller planes’ come into the fleet)
4.) QR with a 787

I can’t think of any others as possible or likely.


I agree with EK and especially TK. The TK A332 with 220 seats (30 are full flat J seats) would be perfect for double daily.

I would replace JL with TP. JL has it setup to maximize NRT connections. I think the rumored idea of 1 NRT + 1 HND would be better. TP has the fleet allowing creativity in maximizing connections at LIS (i.e possible daytime A321neoLR flight grabbing US Connections with B6, BOS-LIS O+D, and Africa)

QR - 787 doesn't have Q-Suites but if EK had that exact plane - double daily or even One A380 and seasonal 787 would be happening right now

Someday CM may get to full double daily seasonally - I personally think they should only go daily mid-September to mid November. MAX issues are hurting them too.


Also - will we ever see any less than daily routes go daily (or in the case of BOS-TLV 6 weekly due to Sabbath)?
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
YouGeeElWhy
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Nov 28, 2019 3:41 pm

adamh8297 wrote:
ChrisNH38 wrote:
There are several international carriers that do ‘double-daily’ to Boston in the high season.

Here’s my list of the other airlines and ranking them as to their likelihood of going double themselves in the future:

1.) TK
2.) JL
3.) EK (once their ‘smaller planes’ come into the fleet)
4.) QR with a 787

I can’t think of any others as possible or likely.


I agree with EK and especially TK. The TK A332 with 220 seats (30 are full flat J seats) would be perfect for double daily.

I would replace JL with TP. JL has it setup to maximize NRT connections. I think the rumored idea of 1 NRT + 1 HND would be better. TP has the fleet allowing creativity in maximizing connections at LIS (i.e possible daytime A321neoLR flight grabbing US Connections with B6, BOS-LIS O+D, and Africa)

QR - 787 doesn't have Q-Suites but if EK had that exact plane - double daily or even One A380 and seasonal 787 would be happening right now
QR does have the 787-9 on the way, which has "new" QSuites and required crew rests (QR 787-8 does not), so that is possible. However, I am not sure about the demand as a second flight would only work for their Africa/ME transfers.

Regarding JL and TK you would think they would upgauge before they added another frequency (certainly in JL's case). Also, I think you would see ANA or some of the Chinese carriers show up in BOS before TK/JL got around to adding another frequency and that would suppress the possibility of them doubling up.

EK seems possible just due to them retiring the A380 plus like what was said above about them getting smaller planes.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Nov 28, 2019 3:48 pm

ChrisNH38 wrote:
There are several international carriers that do ‘double-daily’ to Boston in the high season.

Here’s my list of the other airlines and ranking them as to their likelihood of going double themselves in the future:

1.) TK
2.) JL
3.) EK (once their ‘smaller planes’ come into the fleet)
4.) QR with a 787

I can’t think of any others as possible or likely.


Until the issues in HKG, I would have thought CX would have been on that list, but alas no more. If JL can find the slots at NRT/HND, then i could see them adding, they are pretty tapped out with their 789. Not sure TK or QR are quite there yet, EK would be the obvious choice, given they did it before and I agree, a 787 would be suited to complement A380 service, as the 77W is too big really as a foil.

As for anyone else? Apart from space issues, CM tried double daily and backed off, down the road if KE continue to be successful, maybe I could see them doing it with a 789.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Nov 28, 2019 4:23 pm

More data to peruse while you are feasting on Turkey and the trimmings, this time Massport data, updated thru Oct 19 thanks to iyerhari...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MCjF8P ... sp=sharing

Based on the numbers so far, my estimate for year end is just over 42.5m (roughly 4% uplift on 2018)

For October the following applies:

Domestic and International both broke records, this despite the total number of flights being lower than 2018, specifically around the international side by 129

Within Domestic, both the commuter and jet numbers broke records, commuter beating out a record set back in 2006

For pax counts, Asia, Caribbean, Mid East and Europe all set records with Europe just missing out on breaking 400K for the mont

In terms of average pax counts, Asia dipped to 198 from 204, Canada moved up to 59 from 56, despite the loss of most of the WS flights. The Carribean ticked up to 124 from 120, Central America did really well with 127 from 107, Europe moved up to 234 from 230 last year and the Middle East to 263 from 232 even with the loss of 380 service during the month. South America was up to 197 from 126 and concerning is RAM in Africa with 140 pax per flight.

Interestingly mail ticked up slightly as international seems to be growing again, but Express and Freight continue to drop back.

YTD
35.9m total Pax YTD, with domestic hitting 28m for the first time at this stage and International smashing the 7m barrier in the same period.
Asia hit 500,000 this month, Caribbean 1m, Mid East just short of 600K and Central America just short of 300K

To put some of these in perspective. 35.9m is only 300K shy of the total Year 2016, International is just about 50K shy of the total 2017 and domestic beat 2015 Year.

Regionally, Asia, Caribbean, Central America, and Middle East will easily beat out their 2018 Year numbers.

Rolling basis (not my estimate) is currently planned for 42.3m..

Anyway, enjoy at your leisure and happy thanksgiving to one and all.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
Fex180
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Nov 28, 2019 4:34 pm

As discussed in the "Rest of the New England" thread, what is the likelihood of DL adding short inter-New England feeder flights to BOS? BTV and BGR seem like low hanging fruit, but would that work logistically given lack of gate space at terminal A during certain times of the day?
 
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ChrisNH38
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Nov 28, 2019 4:52 pm

There was a time (albeit brief) that QR used the 788 to Boston. If it didn’t have the crew rest area, how could they have managed that?
https://my.flightradar24.com/ChrisNH
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:22 pm

YouGeeElWhy wrote:
Also, I think you would see ANA or some of the Chinese carriers show up in BOS before TK/JL got around to adding another frequency and that would suppress the possibility of them doubling up.


Lets separate TK from East Asia Carriers - What NH would do is exclusive from TK.

Here's my case why frequencies are needed for IST-North American flights.

TK serves an insane amount of destinations from IST and its just impossible to provide connections to all of them with a single flight. People forget what TK/IST can serve from BOS - Its more than Middle East/Indian Subcontinent/Africa/SE Asia. You need to consider the Balkans, Central Asia, Countries on the line of Europe/Asia :Georgia, Azerbaijan, Ukraine, Moldova, Russia.

Do some random bookings with TK and you will find a lot of long layovers. It may work for certain markets (i.e. Africa) but not for all of them.



ChrisNH38 wrote:
There was a time (albeit brief) that QR used the 788 to Boston. If it didn’t have the crew rest area, how could they have managed that?


Blocked off some J seats
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Nov 28, 2019 6:12 pm

And in shockingly unsurprising news, the new ride share location not going. Over so well

https://boston.cbslocal.com/2019/11/27/ ... nksgiving/
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.

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