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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:40 pm
by 13ifs40
Good Afternoon all

AA use to run an MD-11 on a routeing of BOS-SJC-NRT for a very brief time during the early nineties. The Period would be at some point between 1992-1994. The plane would overnight at the old AA hanger.


13ifs40

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:27 pm
by hinckley
airbazar wrote:
It could have been originally filed as an MD-11. Airlines change equipment all the time after the original route application. But I'm pretty sure that it was eventually changed to 772 but we'll never know for sure because it never operated. Nevertheless the timing just doesn't seem right for an MD-11 given the date of the last MD-11 flight.

At the time, the 128 tech community had a (well founded) inferiority complex regarding Silicon Valley. AA was the BOS business carrier of choice then, and I think we were all a bit pissed off when they started to build out their SJC mini-hub. We had a lot of AA LHR flights at the time, but we needed Asia. I'm pretty sure they had a single flight number (but I think a change of equipment) for BOS-SJC-NRT, so we were pretty excited when AA announced the non-stop service, eliminating the insulting (!) Silicon Valley stop. I have a vague recollection that the MD11 non-stop authority was announced but never scheduled. In retrospect, the decision to retire the MD11 most likely had something to do with that. AA went dark on the status of the proposed flight. I don't recall an announced change to the 772. Then 9/11 happened and the intended route was finally and formally cancelled. Chris is an old-timer like me. Maybe he has a further recollection.

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:14 pm
by AviationAddict
Has anyone managed to catch a picture of the DL A220 at BOS? If I'm not mistaken the type operates a late-night LGA leg and then departs early the following AM, not exactly ideal spotting conditions.

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:16 pm
by iyerhari
BOS July-2019 numbers are out:

YTD 2019 total pax: 24,429,229
YTD 2018 total pax: 23,435,594
AAGR total pax YTD: 4.2%

Logan continues to grow and surely on path to continue upward trajectory.

Jul-19 Jul-18 Difference
Domestic Charter Passenger 614 422 45.50%
Domestic Commuter Passenger 229,977 215,387 6.77%
Domestic Jet Passenger 2,939,949 2,975,522 -1.20%
Total Domestic Passengers 3,170,540 3,191,331 -0.65%

International
Bermuda/Bahamas/Caribbean 113,288 96,843 16.98%
Canada 102,348 107,351 -4.66%
Central America 25,720 25,654 0.26%
Europe 502,765 449,310 11.90%
Middle East 73,091 58,653 24.62%
South America 7,919 10,628 -25.49%
Trans-Pacific 60,752 50,461 20.39%
North Africa 5,759 0 #DIV/0!
Total International passengers 891,642 798,900 11.61%

General Aviation 9,900 9,702 2.04%
Total Airport pax 4,072,082 3,999,933 1.80%

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:18 pm
by Dieuwer
North Africa = RAM only? If so, then 5,759 pax is very good for them.

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:24 pm
by VS4ever
Dieuwer wrote:
North Africa = RAM only? If so, then 5,759 pax is very good for them.


Yep, and no cancellations. Assuming all flights were on the proposed 788 (274 seats each way), that calculates to 81% loads.

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:28 pm
by VS4ever
iyerhari wrote:
BOS July-2019 numbers are out:

YTD 2019 total pax: 24,429,229
YTD 2018 total pax: 23,435,594
AAGR total pax YTD: 4.2%

Logan continues to grow and surely on path to continue upward trajectory.

Jul-19 Jul-18 Difference
Domestic Charter Passenger 614 422 45.50%
Domestic Commuter Passenger 229,977 215,387 6.77%
Domestic Jet Passenger 2,939,949 2,975,522 -1.20%
Total Domestic Passengers 3,170,540 3,191,331 -0.65%

International
Bermuda/Bahamas/Caribbean 113,288 96,843 16.98%
Canada 102,348 107,351 -4.66%
Central America 25,720 25,654 0.26%
Europe 502,765 449,310 11.90%
Middle East 73,091 58,653 24.62%
South America 7,919 10,628 -25.49%
Trans-Pacific 60,752 50,461 20.39%
North Africa 5,759 0 #DIV/0!
Total International passengers 891,642 798,900 11.61%

General Aviation 9,900 9,702 2.04%
Total Airport pax 4,072,082 3,999,933 1.80%


The world finally catches up a bit. massive gains in TATL, TPAC and MEA traded off against the WN gut punch, WS reversal and South American reductions, even so, first time over 4m pax for a July and I expect similar numbers, if not a bit more of an uptick to say 4,2m for August. Shouldn't complain, still breaking records, but it's clear some of the route actions are showing.

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:19 pm
by EK77WNH
With all the gymnastics at Terminals A & B, is Air Canada going have a nicer setup? I always thought I was heading into a third-world airport with them.

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:44 pm
by tomaheath
EK77WNH wrote:
With all the gymnastics at Terminals A & B, is Air Canada going have a nicer setup? I always thought I was heading into a third-world airport with them.

They don’t have there own TSA anymore so it’s connected to the rest of the terminal now.

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:01 pm
by clrd4t8koff
EK77WNH wrote:
With all the gymnastics at Terminals A & B, is Air Canada going have a nicer setup? I always thought I was heading into a third-world airport with them.


Have no fear - though the AC gates are connected to the rest of terminal B now, their gates still look like a bomb went off in that corner. This was the case when I flew them 3-weeks ago out of BOS. Hopefully they’re actively working to update their gatehouses.

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:47 pm
by airbazar
hinckley wrote:
airbazar wrote:
It could have been originally filed as an MD-11. Airlines change equipment all the time after the original route application. But I'm pretty sure that it was eventually changed to 772 but we'll never know for sure because it never operated. Nevertheless the timing just doesn't seem right for an MD-11 given the date of the last MD-11 flight.

At the time, the 128 tech community had a (well founded) inferiority complex regarding Silicon Valley. AA was the BOS business carrier of choice then, and I think we were all a bit pissed off when they started to build out their SJC mini-hub.

I'm not sure about AA being the business carrier of choice. Maybe for the "legacy businesses" but not sure about the emerging Internet companies. I worked for a major Internet company back then. A real Internet company, not a .com. There were so few I can almost say "the only Internet company" :) and we used UA on our travels back and forth between Boston and Palo Alto. IIRC the BOS-SJC route was very short lived but I could be wrong. It wasn't really on my radar back then. The UA frequencies to SFO and the 767 they used was a significantly better product, IMO. To this day I'm still a United FF member. Man I miss those good old days. These days is all video conferences and skype chats :)

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:02 pm
by Dieuwer
Are there A.net meet-ups in Boston?

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:10 pm
by iyerhari
VS4ever wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
North Africa = RAM only? If so, then 5,759 pax is very good for them.


Yep, and no cancellations. Assuming all flights were on the proposed 788 (274 seats each way), that calculates to 81% loads.

Isn't there Cape Verde which is in North Africa?

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:50 am
by jsteeves3
iyerhari wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
North Africa = RAM only? If so, then 5,759 pax is very good for them.


Yep, and no cancellations. Assuming all flights were on the proposed 788 (274 seats each way), that calculates to 81% loads.

Isn't there Cape Verde which is in North Africa?


And about every 4th flight is on a 789...

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:10 am
by VS4ever
iyerhari wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
North Africa = RAM only? If so, then 5,759 pax is very good for them.


Yep, and no cancellations. Assuming all flights were on the proposed 788 (274 seats each way), that calculates to 81% loads.

Isn't there Cape Verde which is in North Africa?


Unless Massport have re-categorized. Cape Verde has always been categorized as Europe

If we take jsteeves, every 4th day on a 789 (has roughly 30 extra seats each way), that drops the loads about 4% to around 76%

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:12 am
by tomaheath
Dieuwer wrote:
Are there A.net meet-ups in Boston?

That be pretty neat.

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:37 am
by mikegigs
AviationAddict wrote:
Has anyone managed to catch a picture of the DL A220 at BOS? If I'm not mistaken the type operates a late-night LGA leg and then departs early the following AM, not exactly ideal spotting conditions.


Haven't caught any pictures myself but there are a few online if you google "a220 boston". Also found this video from inside a DL A220 at BOS: https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source= ... 6433277088

I didn't think DL only operated one shuttle flight a day on the A220 but I checked their flight schedules and sure enough the only A220 departure on the BOS-LGA route is at 7:30am. Does anybody know off the tops of their heads if they're currently operating any other flights from BOS with that bird?

Additionally, for those asking earlier, yesterday I noticed that there are road signs as you enter the airport saying that WN will move to B on August 29 (my eyes could have deceived me though).

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:40 am
by airway1
Emirates upgrade to a 380 pushed Middle East up 24%? Wow! That’s impressive!

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:59 am
by adamh8297
airway1 wrote:
Emirates upgrade to a 380 pushed Middle East up 24%? Wow! That’s impressive!


QR has been increasing their share too.

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:51 pm
by EK77WNH
I don't quite get EK bringing the A380 back for December and January before going four months with the 77W. Is there some spike in demand in December & January? Maybe they just want some winter-time practice at Logan before going year-round with it in 2020 and beyond.

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:58 pm
by ramzi
EK77WNH wrote:
I don't quite get EK bringing the A380 back for December and January before going four months with the 77W. Is there some spike in demand in December & January? Maybe they just want some winter-time practice at Logan before going year-round with it in 2020 and beyond.


Its the student traffic. Tens if not hundreds of thousands fly home during the holiday season, many are from India, China, and the Middle East. Good move on EK's part.

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:10 pm
by FGITD
Not sure of the schedule but it's been there during various hours. When DL first started operating they'd periodically bring them to maintenance for overnights.

https://imgur.com/a/66csymR


Also no idea if the image will work

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:31 pm
by airbazar
ramzi wrote:
EK77WNH wrote:
I don't quite get EK bringing the A380 back for December and January before going four months with the 77W. Is there some spike in demand in December & January? Maybe they just want some winter-time practice at Logan before going year-round with it in 2020 and beyond.


Its the student traffic. Tens if not hundreds of thousands fly home during the holiday season, many are from India, China, and the Middle East. Good move on EK's part.


To top it off because of where xmas falls this year, public schools actually have a full 2 week break.
The fares are outrageous tho.

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:50 pm
by VS4ever
ramzi wrote:
EK77WNH wrote:
I don't quite get EK bringing the A380 back for December and January before going four months with the 77W. Is there some spike in demand in December & January? Maybe they just want some winter-time practice at Logan before going year-round with it in 2020 and beyond.


Its the student traffic. Tens if not hundreds of thousands fly home during the holiday season, many are from India, China, and the Middle East. Good move on EK's part.

This is true, there’s always a spike around the holiday time, even when the 2nd daily started horribly in Oct and November way back when, Dec and Jan definitely picked up before settling down.

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:10 pm
by VS4ever
https://www.wcvb.com/article/airplanes- ... t/28803060

Cape air wing into nose of 2nd cape air at a crowded C27

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:47 pm
by massachoicetts
Wow any reason besides Westjet downsizing that Canada traffic is down that much?

Would it be feasible for DL to add a YYZ or YUL to BOS for TATL feed?

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:31 pm
by clrd4t8koff
massachoicetts wrote:
Wow any reason besides Westjet downsizing that Canada traffic is down that much?

Would it be feasible for DL to add a YYZ or YUL to BOS for TATL feed?


What did WS downsize? Do you mean the dropping of BOS-YHZ flights?

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:02 pm
by kearnet
Anyone know what happened tonight around E4? While waiting for my delayed flight there’s been fire truck over behind the TAM flight for about an hour. I’d think of it were a medical response they’d be done and gone by now.

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:18 pm
by VS4ever
clrd4t8koff wrote:
massachoicetts wrote:
Wow any reason besides Westjet downsizing that Canada traffic is down that much?

Would it be feasible for DL to add a YYZ or YUL to BOS for TATL feed?


What did WS downsize? Do you mean the dropping of BOS-YHZ flights?


They dropped both YHZ and YUL since the prior year.

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:02 pm
by bpat777
WN will move into their new gates 8/29. Starting with 5 gates then eventually going up to 7

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:12 am
by B752OS
bpat777 wrote:
WN will move into their new gates 8/29. Starting with 5 gates then eventually going up to 7


Are you sure about them going up to 7? They are cutting some routes from Boston so I don't see why they would need 2 additional gates. I thought the allocation of the 10 gates on the pier were 3 for United, 5 for Southwest and 2 for Alaska?

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:40 am
by VS4ever
B752OS wrote:
bpat777 wrote:
WN will move into their new gates 8/29. Starting with 5 gates then eventually going up to 7


Are you sure about them going up to 7? They are cutting some routes from Boston so I don't see why they would need 2 additional gates. I thought the allocation of the 10 gates on the pier were 3 for United, 5 for Southwest and 2 for Alaska?


There was an original proposal for 7 for certain, but that's been gone for a long time. it's most definitely 5 now.

The last official post from the board meetings was Nov 18, Slide 135
http://www.massport.com/media/3106/nove ... ermark.pdf

6 UA
5 WN
2 AS
2 NK

And as B752OS notes, with the recent reductions and them basically saying those reductions were on a basis of better use elsewhere, I doubt we will see them come back until the MAX returns to the skies. Massport had noted 51-56 departures in its calculations of growth, but WN are way below that now.

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:56 am
by bpat777
Possibly so although I just read WN wld eventually get seven on the employee website this morning. They even listed the 7 gate numbers

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:52 am
by VS4ever
bpat777 wrote:
Possibly so although I just read WN wld eventually get seven on the employee website this morning. They even listed the 7 gate numbers


In my experience, sometimes, corporate intranets can contain a lot of very old data, So again it might have been the case, but you would need to know the last time that page was updated to see whether it's true or not in recent time, All i am saying is that per Massport (the owners) and all the literature that has been produced by them in terms of the optimization project in the last 12 months, every single one has stated 5 gates, As I said, way back when, it was discussed about 7 gates, but i would be highly surprised if Massport would do an adjustment at this stage, Gate utilization is key for Massport right now, and that's why SY, F9 and HA are using Terminal E along with bits of B6, so the question would be. IF Massport had an agreement with WN to supply them 2 additional gates over there, who's going to disappear? AS? NK or will UA shrink further, as those are your options...There is the potential swing gate of B43/C43, which could provide an additional option and maybe, just maybe WN could be allowed to use one or both of the AS gates in quiet times, but right now there's nothing to suggest that's going to happen.

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:29 am
by bpat777
VS4ever wrote:
bpat777 wrote:
Possibly so although I just read WN wld eventually get seven on the employee website this morning. They even listed the 7 gate numbers


In my experience, sometimes, corporate intranets can contain a lot of very old data, So again it might have been the case, but you would need to know the last time that page was updated to see whether it's true or not in recent time, All i am saying is that per Massport (the owners) and all the literature that has been produced by them in terms of the optimization project in the last 12 months, every single one has stated 5 gates, As I said, way back when, it was discussed about 7 gates, but i would be highly surprised if Massport would do an adjustment at this stage, Gate utilization is key for Massport right now, and that's why SY, F9 and HA are using Terminal E along with bits of B6, so the question would be. IF Massport had an agreement with WN to supply them 2 additional gates over there, who's going to disappear? AS? NK or will UA shrink further, as those are your options...There is the potential swing gate of B43/C43, which could provide an additional option and maybe, just maybe WN could be allowed to use one or both of the AS gates in quiet times, but right now there's nothing to suggest that's going to happen.


I agree 7 does seem like a lot of gates for the WN BOS operation. I guess time will tell

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:12 pm
by airbazar
I think WN missed the boat at BOS and they are only going to continue to shrink. With the expansion of B6 and DL, plus recent love from F9 and NK, I think WN is going to continue to face a difficult time at BOS. With less than 30 departures per day do they really need 5 gates? That's really poor gate utilization. I could see them eventually falling to 3 gates, especially if Massport raises the rent to pay for all the airport improvements.

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:31 pm
by iyerhari
WN BOS destinations after the current drops:

BWI, MDW, STL, HOU - no direct flights here from competitors
CMH - flown by DL (I do not know how long this will last) I somehow feel this will be next chopping candidate
BNA - flown by DL and B6 - do not think there will be cuts here considering this is a WN stronghold
FLL - B6 and DL

There are ~7 destinations excluding some of the seasonal cuts. I did not know AUS already became seasonal. 5 gates for 7 destinations seems too much which has been already alluded in this thread.

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:11 pm
by B752OS
airbazar wrote:
I think WN missed the boat at BOS and they are only going to continue to shrink. With the expansion of B6 and DL, plus recent love from F9 and NK, I think WN is going to continue to face a difficult time at BOS. With less than 30 departures per day do they really need 5 gates? That's really poor gate utilization. I could see them eventually falling to 3 gates, especially if Massport raises the rent to pay for all the airport improvements.


I think Southwest realized that in order to effectively serve Boston and its metro area, they needed to serve Logan directly. Serving Manchester was not going to do it. Providence is a market they needed to serve on its own, regardless of Boston. Even after the cuts, they'll still offer travelers year round, multiple daily flights to 3 of their 4 biggest hubs - Chicago Midway, Denver and Baltimore/Washington - which will give one-stop service to almost their entire network.

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:16 pm
by cessna53996
iyerhari wrote:
WN BOS destinations after the current drops:

BWI, MDW, STL, HOU - no direct flights here from competitors
CMH - flown by DL (I do not know how long this will last) I somehow feel this will be next chopping candidate
BNA - flown by DL and B6 - do not think there will be cuts here considering this is a WN stronghold
FLL - B6 and DL

There are ~7 destinations excluding some of the seasonal cuts. I did not know AUS already became seasonal. 5 gates for 7 destinations seems too much which has been already alluded in this thread.


I mean by today's numbers...

BWI- 5x B6, 2x NK
MDW- ORD is competition, I would argue, and we all know how much traffic flies BOS-ORD
HOU- See MDW/ORD and swap with IAH/HOU

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:30 pm
by NickolayAv
AA has added Boston-Nassau service as of January 11, 2020.
It will be operated once weekly on a B738 on Saturdays until April 4, 2020.

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:47 pm
by Dieuwer
cessna53996 wrote:
iyerhari wrote:
WN BOS destinations after the current drops:

BWI, MDW, STL, HOU - no direct flights here from competitors
CMH - flown by DL (I do not know how long this will last) I somehow feel this will be next chopping candidate
BNA - flown by DL and B6 - do not think there will be cuts here considering this is a WN stronghold
FLL - B6 and DL

There are ~7 destinations excluding some of the seasonal cuts. I did not know AUS already became seasonal. 5 gates for 7 destinations seems too much which has been already alluded in this thread.


I mean by today's numbers...

BWI- 5x B6, 2x NK
MDW- ORD is competition, I would argue, and we all know how much traffic flies BOS-ORD
HOU- See MDW/ORD and swap with IAH/HOU


NK also flies BOS-FLL.

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:47 pm
by jplatts
airbazar wrote:
I think WN missed the boat at BOS and they are only going to continue to shrink. With the expansion of B6 and DL, plus recent love from F9 and NK, I think WN is going to continue to face a difficult time at BOS. With less than 30 departures per day do they really need 5 gates? That's really poor gate utilization. I could see them eventually falling to 3 gates, especially if Massport raises the rent to pay for all the airport improvements.


iyerhari wrote:
WN BOS destinations after the current drops:

BWI, MDW, STL, HOU - no direct flights here from competitors
CMH - flown by DL (I do not know how long this will last) I somehow feel this will be next chopping candidate
BNA - flown by DL and B6 - do not think there will be cuts here considering this is a WN stronghold
FLL - B6 and DL

There are ~7 destinations excluding some of the seasonal cuts. I did not know AUS already became seasonal. 5 gates for 7 destinations seems too much which has been already alluded in this thread.


I could see WN reducing BOS-CMH nonstop service from year-round to summer seasonal nonstop service as load factors and demand on WN CMH-BOS were weak during the wintertime and strong during the summertime.

There is clearly enough demand for WN service out of BOS, even with the cuts that WN made at BOS since Fall 2018, as WN carried 2,784,000 passengers in and out of BOS in the June 2018 - May 2019 period. There is also enough demand for at least 22 daily departures out of BOS on WN with the amount of passengers who flew in and out of BOS on WN in the June 2018 - May 2019 period.

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:03 pm
by Dieuwer
Maybe Bostonians don't like to fly WN? Maybe Bostonians have too high of a standard in general and don't want to be treated like cattle.

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:09 pm
by iyerhari
Dieuwer wrote:
Maybe Bostonians don't like to fly WN? Maybe Bostonians have too high of a standard in general and don't want to be treated like cattle.

It’s a very irresponsible statement and I think it’s high time you own up to this. Maybe you are extremely privileged or have the opportunity to always fly in business and kudos to you - unfortunately most of us here fly coach and have been lucky on multiple occasions to fly business - not every time but sometimes.

WN came to BOS late as their strategy was to go to the tier B airports. The strategy worked IMO at Texas West Coast and several Midwest markets where places are far flung vs Northeast. WN does an excellent job in several markets and have a dedicated clientele.

Sincerely .

A cattle class traveling AA traveler from Logan to ORD tomorrow.

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:10 pm
by VS4ever
Dieuwer wrote:
Maybe Bostonians don't like to fly WN? Maybe Bostonians have too high of a standard in general and don't want to be treated like cattle.

And yet We have NK and F9 now flying from BOS, with arguably a worse experience. So I don’t think the WN theory holds water.

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:25 pm
by Dieuwer
iyerhari wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Maybe Bostonians don't like to fly WN? Maybe Bostonians have too high of a standard in general and don't want to be treated like cattle.

It’s a very irresponsible statement and I think it’s high time you own up to this. Maybe you are extremely privileged or have the opportunity to always fly in business and kudos to you - unfortunately most of us here fly coach and have been lucky on multiple occasions to fly business - not every time but sometimes.

WN came to BOS late as their strategy was to go to the tier B airports. The strategy worked IMO at Texas West Coast and several Midwest markets where places are far flung vs Northeast. WN does an excellent job in several markets and have a dedicated clientele.

Sincerely .

A cattle class traveling AA traveler from Logan to ORD tomorrow.


It is not about J vs. Y. It is about herding people onboard, fighting for an exit row seat. Elbowing people away. Pulling punches.
Assigned seating is more civilized.

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:39 pm
by VS4ever
Dieuwer wrote:
iyerhari wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Maybe Bostonians don't like to fly WN? Maybe Bostonians have too high of a standard in general and don't want to be treated like cattle.

It’s a very irresponsible statement and I think it’s high time you own up to this. Maybe you are extremely privileged or have the opportunity to always fly in business and kudos to you - unfortunately most of us here fly coach and have been lucky on multiple occasions to fly business - not every time but sometimes.

WN came to BOS late as their strategy was to go to the tier B airports. The strategy worked IMO at Texas West Coast and several Midwest markets where places are far flung vs Northeast. WN does an excellent job in several markets and have a dedicated clientele.

Sincerely .

A cattle class traveling AA traveler from Logan to ORD tomorrow.


It is not about J vs. Y. It is about herding people onboard, fighting for an exit row seat. Elbowing people away. Pulling punches.
Assigned seating is more civilized.


And yet none of that actually happens in real life. WN boarding is in order you line up and you pick your seats accordingly, if fighting and elbowing happened, given the state of social media right now there would be a massive outcry at the humanity of it all. While I am not a fan of WN or their boarding policy, unless you have plenty of evidence of this actually taking place, I call brown smelly stuff that you accidentally sometimes step in.

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:42 pm
by adamh8297
Dieuwer wrote:
iyerhari wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Maybe Bostonians don't like to fly WN? Maybe Bostonians have too high of a standard in general and don't want to be treated like cattle.

It’s a very irresponsible statement and I think it’s high time you own up to this. Maybe you are extremely privileged or have the opportunity to always fly in business and kudos to you - unfortunately most of us here fly coach and have been lucky on multiple occasions to fly business - not every time but sometimes.

WN came to BOS late as their strategy was to go to the tier B airports. The strategy worked IMO at Texas West Coast and several Midwest markets where places are far flung vs Northeast. WN does an excellent job in several markets and have a dedicated clientele.

Sincerely .

A cattle class traveling AA traveler from Logan to ORD tomorrow.


It is not about J vs. Y. It is about herding people onboard, fighting for an exit row seat. Elbowing people away. Pulling punches.
Assigned seating is more civilized.


It's slightly different for the past few years since the race begins 24 hours before flight when you check in and get a position (I.e. A17, B23). You can also leapfrog this with the business select fare.

I think WN has great customer service and still do not have a bag fee. Where they messed up In BOS was being light on Florida and they could have done a weekend CUN, PUJ or AUA route. I think that would give people a reason to fly WN since FF miles tend to get burned on leisure routes.

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:42 pm
by Dieuwer
VS4ever wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
iyerhari wrote:
It’s a very irresponsible statement and I think it’s high time you own up to this. Maybe you are extremely privileged or have the opportunity to always fly in business and kudos to you - unfortunately most of us here fly coach and have been lucky on multiple occasions to fly business - not every time but sometimes.

WN came to BOS late as their strategy was to go to the tier B airports. The strategy worked IMO at Texas West Coast and several Midwest markets where places are far flung vs Northeast. WN does an excellent job in several markets and have a dedicated clientele.

Sincerely .

A cattle class traveling AA traveler from Logan to ORD tomorrow.


It is not about J vs. Y. It is about herding people onboard, fighting for an exit row seat. Elbowing people away. Pulling punches.
Assigned seating is more civilized.


And yet none of that actually happens in real life. WN boarding is in order you line up and you pick your seats accordingly, if fighting and elbowing happened, given the state of social media right now there would be a massive outcry at the humanity of it all. While I am not a fan of WN or their boarding policy, unless you have plenty of evidence of this actually taking place, I call brown smelly stuff that you accidentally sometimes step in.


The evidence is 200,000 hits simply using Google to search for "fight onboard Southwest". Or Google Southwest seatsavers and you get another 100,000+ hits with as many angry people.

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:59 pm
by VS4ever
Dieuwer wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:

It is not about J vs. Y. It is about herding people onboard, fighting for an exit row seat. Elbowing people away. Pulling punches.
Assigned seating is more civilized.


And yet none of that actually happens in real life. WN boarding is in order you line up and you pick your seats accordingly, if fighting and elbowing happened, given the state of social media right now there would be a massive outcry at the humanity of it all. While I am not a fan of WN or their boarding policy, unless you have plenty of evidence of this actually taking place, I call brown smelly stuff that you accidentally sometimes step in.


The evidence is 200,000 hits simply using Google to search for "fight onboard Southwest". Or Google Southwest seatsavers and you get another 100,000+ hits with as many angry people.

And yet until you personally brought this up,
I’ve seen nothing about this as an issue either on a.net or the news. That tells me how big a problem this actually is. Exceedingly small and if it wasn’t WN would do something about it.