airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:12 am

B752OS wrote:
I think Southwest realized that in order to effectively serve Boston and its metro area, they needed to serve Logan directly. Serving Manchester was not going to do it. Providence is a market they needed to serve on its own, regardless of Boston. Even after the cuts, they'll still offer travelers year round, multiple daily flights to 3 of their 4 biggest hubs - Chicago Midway, Denver and Baltimore/Washington - which will give one-stop service to almost their entire network.

And there lies the problem, IMO: hubs. WN used to be the airline that didn't believe in hubs. They flew p-2-p and that was their advantage over everyone else. Now you can't get anywhere on WN without connecting in one of their hubs making them the same as everyone else but with higher prices. Yes, in my experience WN is rarely the cheaper option. So why would anyone pay more for the same type of service? Makes no sense what so ever. The cuts at BOS are going to continue.
 
iyerhari
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:00 am

airbazar wrote:
B752OS wrote:
I think Southwest realized that in order to effectively serve Boston and its metro area, they needed to serve Logan directly. Serving Manchester was not going to do it. Providence is a market they needed to serve on its own, regardless of Boston. Even after the cuts, they'll still offer travelers year round, multiple daily flights to 3 of their 4 biggest hubs - Chicago Midway, Denver and Baltimore/Washington - which will give one-stop service to almost their entire network.

And there lies the problem, IMO: hubs. WN used to be the airline that didn't believe in hubs. They flew p-2-p and that was their advantage over everyone else. Now you can't get anywhere on WN without connecting in one of their hubs making them the same as everyone else but with higher prices. Yes, in my experience WN is rarely the cheaper option. So why would anyone pay more for the same type of service? Makes no sense what so ever. The cuts at BOS are going to continue.

airbazar - if you ask my colleagues who live in LAX, SNA, SJC, HOU, DAL, and even SFO WN is an excellent option. They rule the market in that area OR have great position.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/250 ... -airlines/

This will give you a brief glimpse to see that WN has time and tested market share. It's like asking a person based in SJC, how is B6 doing and with a token presence with maybe a single or two token flights from the silicon valley, they are non-existent to say the least. I personally do not like WN and have only taken them once or twice in my entire 14 years of consulting life - there are several of my colleagues who swear by them OR take them due to compulsion.

At BOS, they are one of the weakest link and the fact that price point vantage is no longer the difference as there is B6, DL or any of the legacy carriers who are the prime carriers does not work to WN's advantage. IMO, if it were not for DL, probably AA would have slugged it out at BOS.
 
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mikegigs
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:23 pm

VS4ever wrote:
There was an original proposal for 7 for certain, but that's been gone for a long time. it's most definitely 5 now.

The last official post from the board meetings was Nov 18, Slide 135
http://www.massport.com/media/3106/nove ... ermark.pdf

6 UA
5 WN
2 AS
2 NK


It's interesting seeing old board meeting presentations. A slide in this deck says that AS and SY were supposed to move to B in June (along with WN's original move date), but unlike the WN move in a couple days, I haven't heard anything about AS moving to B - and SY is in E now. I assume Massport would want AS out of C41 and C42 sooner rather than later so they can start the B to C connector.

And it's always nice to see the renderings of the new renovations. I have to say, BOS does a great job of picking designs that totally transfer a lot of the dark, cramped-feeling spaces into bright and airy-feeling ones (examples include pmUS TSA checkpoint area, pmUS arrivals and bag claim, gates C9, C10, C11, etc.).
Airports: BOS, JAX, JFK, EWR, LGA, CVG, ATL, CLT, DCA, IAD, STT, PVD, ALB, MCO
Aircraft: 733, 735, 73G, 738, 752, 717, A319, A320, MD-88, E190, E175, E145, CRJ-200, CRJ-700, Q400
Airlines: B6, CO, DL, US, NW, WN, DH
...a good start but a long way to go!
 
united75x
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:31 pm

AS will be moving to B sometime in the fall. Waiting for construction to finish on the AS space.

Image
 
EK77WNH
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:41 pm

While we're discussing whether WN needs five gates, one could also ask whether UA needs six.
Next Trip:
JAL 7-8 BOS-NRT-BOS, 787-9
September
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:31 pm

iyerhari wrote:
airbazar - if you ask my colleagues who live in LAX, SNA, SJC, HOU, DAL, and even SFO WN is an excellent option. They rule the market in that area OR have great position.

We're talking about BOS. What WN is in other places is not important. No one is debating WN's relevance nationally. In BOS however they have become irrelevant, and they dragged MHT down along with it.

EK77WNH wrote:
While we're discussing whether WN needs five gates, one could also ask whether UA needs six.

Different operating model I think. WN does quick turnarounds to keep costs down. UA is probably has longer turn around times.
Today they have 50 departures. 5 gates might be too few.
 
B752OS
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:35 pm

EK77WNH wrote:
While we're discussing whether WN needs five gates, one could also ask whether UA needs six.


My numbers could be a little bit off, but year round, United will be north of 40 flights a day to Boston. This number will increase for May through October when they add additional flights to all cities served from Boston. Most of the year you have red-eye flights from Denver (1), Los Angeles (1) and San Francisco (2) so they need to gate space to accommodate these planes coming in during the morning rush when you have multiple flights going to Newark, Washington Dulles, San Francisco, Chicago O'Hare and Houston Intercontinental. Apart from Los Angeles, every city served from Boston has at least 4 daily flights year round.

Today for example, United has the following from Boston

Newark - 12 flights (4 depart before 9 am)
Washington Dulles - 5 flights (1 departs before 9 am)
Chicago O'Hare - 9 flights (3 depart before 9 am)
Houston Intercontinental - 5 flights (2 depart before 9 am)
Denver - 5 flights (1 departs before 9 am)
Los Angeles - 3 flights (1 departs before 9 am)
San Francisco - 8 flights (2 depart before 9 am)

That's 47 flights today. With the 4 red-eye flights coming in this morning (1 from Denver, 1 from Los Angeles and 2 from San Francisco), plus 13 flights going out before 9 am. They're going to need 8-9 gates to handle all of this. I don't know how United normally utilizes gates at out stations, but 47 flights at 6 gates means they would be turning 7.8 flights per gate. I don't see how they could run this schedule on 5 gates.
 
EK77WNH
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:16 pm

airbazar wrote:
No one is debating WN's relevance nationally. In BOS however they have become irrelevant, and they dragged MHT down along with it.


This indeed has been the result. But truth be told, consolidation dragged MHT down. UA swallowed up CO; AA swallowed up US; DL swallowed up NW. None of the three 'winners' maintained the levels of service that the acquired carriers had previously. Since this is a Boston thread, I'll simply say that it has really worked out well for Logan. And since I happily use BOS for most business flying nowadays, I'm not shedding (m)any tears over MHT's demise.

I do think, however, that Logan's continued upward trajectory might outpace the ability of the physical footprint to deal with that growth. We talk about this all the time, and I feel that any improvement in fortunes at MHT will come from things just getting too choked at Logan. Some assets might shift to MHT. After all, if the 'downfall' of MHT is because it's 'too close' to Boston, then proximity could be a reason why it begins to bounce back.
Next Trip:
JAL 7-8 BOS-NRT-BOS, 787-9
September
 
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dvincent
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:06 pm

I only fly WN out of BOS if they're going to a place that B6 doesn't go, and if the calculus of their fare with two bags is cheaper than Delta. With their recent scheduling shenanigans (not surprised they're killing MKE given the awful schedule) and the cutbacks, the desire just goes down and down.
From the Mind of Minolta
 
massachoicetts
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:06 pm

Has JAL announced Osaka-Boston flights? Im seeing Osaka listed on wiki has a route coming October 11th? Im sure this is spam or something. But I wanted to double check.


https://gyazo.com/cc8b81389c5ba069cd23e814a968795b
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:25 pm

massachoicetts wrote:
Has JAL announced Osaka-Boston flights? Im seeing Osaka listed on wiki has a route coming October 11th? Im sure this is spam or something. But I wanted to double check.


https://gyazo.com/cc8b81389c5ba069cd23e814a968795b


Certainly not seen anything to that effect, given the increasing numbers on NRT I’ve seen and no HND coming our way, KIX is probably the next alternative. But as I said not seen anything yet
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:00 pm

VS4ever wrote:
massachoicetts wrote:
Has JAL announced Osaka-Boston flights? Im seeing Osaka listed on wiki has a route coming October 11th? Im sure this is spam or something. But I wanted to double check.


https://gyazo.com/cc8b81389c5ba069cd23e814a968795b


Certainly not seen anything to that effect, given the increasing numbers on NRT I’ve seen and no HND coming our way, KIX is probably the next alternative. But as I said not seen anything yet


Appears a notorious Wikitroll has been updating several airport pages from reading the edit. Also the wiki linked to domestic only ITM and not the island international airport KIX.

Osaka doesn't even have a New York flight (CI once flew JFK-KIX-TPE) and only LAX,SFO, HNL, GUM and seasonal SEA are its US destinations. I think BOS would get a second TYO flight first if anything.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:11 am

Holy smokes! Treasure trove of data here:
https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/859c15_f ... 564d1b.pdf

It came from the Chicago thread via a French forum. A Swiss/French marketing agency put together stats primarily for GVA-BOS/CHI markets. I put CHI since I am not sure if MDW factors in (someone flying DL MDW-DTW-AMS for example)

What is listed:
2018
Top 25 BOS/CHI markets to Western Europe with revenue and yield per passenger.
Top 20 Airline share markets to Western Europe from BOS/CHI
Top 20 Revenue by airlines to Western Europe from BOS/CHI
GVA-BOS/CHI O+D by month
GVA-BOS/CHI Point of sale origin
GVA-BOS/CHI Premium vs Economy splits

The two biggest surprises to me are BOS-BCN O+D now being quite larger than BOS-MAD and DY/DI having a higher fare/revenue per passenger than VS for Western Europe revenue. It is important to note stage length wasn't considered for that "yield" section.

Have fun!
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:25 am

Let’s not get over excited, but AA is bringing a 767 to BOS for a month in October from PHL
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... -oct-2019/

Perhaps there’s a lot of people coming to Salem for all the Halloween stuff from PHL lol
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
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mikegigs
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:58 am

adamh8297 wrote:
Holy smokes! Treasure trove of data here:
https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/859c15_f ... 564d1b.pdf


Some of this data seems a little funky to me. I think the PDEW numbers seem a bit low, if I'm reading it correctly. For example, I looked up some DOT data for 2019 and found the CDG-BOS PDEW to be about ~550, while this reports ~360. Also, it lists AA as the ninth largest carrier between BOS and Western Europe. Are they considering codeshare flights that airlines like BA and CX operate?

More than likely, I'm just not understanding the data that they're reporting. Perhaps one of this thread's experts on T100 data can weigh in? :)
Airports: BOS, JAX, JFK, EWR, LGA, CVG, ATL, CLT, DCA, IAD, STT, PVD, ALB, MCO
Aircraft: 733, 735, 73G, 738, 752, 717, A319, A320, MD-88, E190, E175, E145, CRJ-200, CRJ-700, Q400
Airlines: B6, CO, DL, US, NW, WN, DH
...a good start but a long way to go!
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:46 pm

mikegigs wrote:
adamh8297 wrote:
Holy smokes! Treasure trove of data here:
https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/859c15_f ... 564d1b.pdf


Some of this data seems a little funky to me. I think the PDEW numbers seem a bit low, if I'm reading it correctly. For example, I looked up some DOT data for 2019 and found the CDG-BOS PDEW to be about ~550, while this reports ~360. Also, it lists AA as the ninth largest carrier between BOS and Western Europe. Are they considering codeshare flights that airlines like BA and CX operate?

More than likely, I'm just not understanding the data that they're reporting. Perhaps one of this thread's experts on T100 data can weigh in? :)


This report is O+D and O+D has to be purchased from Sabre or other MIDT provider.

T100 is not O+D it is just the flight pax counts so an AF BOS-CDG flight on the T-100 includes people flying BOS-CDG, BOS-CDG-GVA, BNA-BOS-CDG on DL/AF ticket etc.

Adam
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
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mikegigs
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:42 pm

adamh8297 wrote:
mikegigs wrote:
adamh8297 wrote:
Holy smokes! Treasure trove of data here:
https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/859c15_f ... 564d1b.pdf


Some of this data seems a little funky to me. I think the PDEW numbers seem a bit low, if I'm reading it correctly. For example, I looked up some DOT data for 2019 and found the CDG-BOS PDEW to be about ~550, while this reports ~360. Also, it lists AA as the ninth largest carrier between BOS and Western Europe. Are they considering codeshare flights that airlines like BA and CX operate?

More than likely, I'm just not understanding the data that they're reporting. Perhaps one of this thread's experts on T100 data can weigh in? :)


This report is O+D and O+D has to be purchased from Sabre or other MIDT provider.

T100 is not O+D it is just the flight pax counts so an AF BOS-CDG flight on the T-100 includes people flying BOS-CDG, BOS-CDG-GVA, BNA-BOS-CDG on DL/AF ticket etc.

Adam


Makes much more sense now - thanks! That really gives you an idea of how important connecting traffic is, as multiple cities I saw had T100 (O+D plus connecting) numbers were about 30-40% higher than the O+D only data.
Airports: BOS, JAX, JFK, EWR, LGA, CVG, ATL, CLT, DCA, IAD, STT, PVD, ALB, MCO
Aircraft: 733, 735, 73G, 738, 752, 717, A319, A320, MD-88, E190, E175, E145, CRJ-200, CRJ-700, Q400
Airlines: B6, CO, DL, US, NW, WN, DH
...a good start but a long way to go!
 
B752OS
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:21 pm

mikegigs wrote:
adamh8297 wrote:
mikegigs wrote:

Some of this data seems a little funky to me. I think the PDEW numbers seem a bit low, if I'm reading it correctly. For example, I looked up some DOT data for 2019 and found the CDG-BOS PDEW to be about ~550, while this reports ~360. Also, it lists AA as the ninth largest carrier between BOS and Western Europe. Are they considering codeshare flights that airlines like BA and CX operate?

More than likely, I'm just not understanding the data that they're reporting. Perhaps one of this thread's experts on T100 data can weigh in? :)


This report is O+D and O+D has to be purchased from Sabre or other MIDT provider.

T100 is not O+D it is just the flight pax counts so an AF BOS-CDG flight on the T-100 includes people flying BOS-CDG, BOS-CDG-GVA, BNA-BOS-CDG on DL/AF ticket etc.

Adam


Makes much more sense now - thanks! That really gives you an idea of how important connecting traffic is, as multiple cities I saw had T100 (O+D plus connecting) numbers were about 30-40% higher than the O+D only data.


Absolutely regarding the importance of connecting traffic. Just look at the PDEW numbers all the cities that don't have non-stop service to Boston - Athens, Brussels, Vienna, Stockholm, etc. That's hundreds of people every day each way needing to connect via CDG, AMS, LHR, FRA, etc.
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:22 pm

VS4ever wrote:
Let’s not get over excited, but AA is bringing a 767 to BOS for a month in October from PHL
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... -oct-2019/

Perhaps there’s a lot of people coming to Salem for all the Halloween stuff from PHL lol


Noticed this posted 3-weeks ago from another local poster:

jsteeves3 wrote:
AA is starting BOS-PHL with a 763 RON in Oct. with the following dates:
3rd-11th
15th-25th
28th-31st
Dates also look like they creep into Nov. as well!

https://thepointsguy.com/news/fly-aa-be ... estically/


Come on VS4ever - you’re typically more timely :P (mean that very jokingly)
 
KMCOFlyer
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:33 pm

So with WN finally moving to Terminal B tomorrow, is there any further work that needs to be done on Gates A18-A22 for DL to take those gates back over? IIRC, when WN first moved into A a few years back, the process was basically overnight with DL moving out and WN flights arriving the next morning in A.
 
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mikegigs
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:42 pm

KMCOFlyer wrote:
So with WN finally moving to Terminal B tomorrow, is there any further work that needs to be done on Gates A18-A22 for DL to take those gates back over? IIRC, when WN first moved into A a few years back, the process was basically overnight with DL moving out and WN flights arriving the next morning in A.


Well they will need to remove the signs that are used for the WN boarding process from all the gates (that have numbers on them for everyone's boarding position, not sure what to call them). Additionally, WN doesn't have a true podium at every gate, instead they have a small podium with just a computer for scanning boarding passes and about one true podium for every two to three gates that has boards saying which flight is departing from what gate (I think this was depicted in photos from a recent post on this thread). DL however usually has a true podium at each gate with a TV-style screen showing boarding information. I'm not sure exactly how long it will take to remove the WN boarding signs and podiums and then install new DL podiums with TV's and DL themes - maybe a few days or a week?

Additionally, does anyone know if DL will take over the WN check-in positions? I would assume that they would and that there won't be a bunch of empty desks, but the WS check-in is awkwardly in between the DL Shuttle and Priority check-in and current WN check-in.
Airports: BOS, JAX, JFK, EWR, LGA, CVG, ATL, CLT, DCA, IAD, STT, PVD, ALB, MCO
Aircraft: 733, 735, 73G, 738, 752, 717, A319, A320, MD-88, E190, E175, E145, CRJ-200, CRJ-700, Q400
Airlines: B6, CO, DL, US, NW, WN, DH
...a good start but a long way to go!
 
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tlecam
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:57 am

I’ve seen DL overhaul gates overnight, so I think they’ll get the gates in working order with DL branding and boarding setup quickly. Whether they do a broader overhaul of the aesthetics, they may do that over time. I believe that they have some significant renovations to the satellite lounge planned. (Or have those already been done? I have only been in the main terminal lounge recently.). Good question about ticket counters. I assume that they’re taking them over. What might be nicer is if they widen the TSA security checkpoint area and add a few more lanes...one can dream.

I land around 10:00 tomorrow night and my flight (the 321 from DTW) usually parks out at the satellite, so I’ll take a look around.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
RobertS975
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:49 am

tlecam wrote:
I’ve seen DL overhaul gates overnight, so I think they’ll get the gates in working order with DL branding and boarding setup quickly. Whether they do a broader overhaul of the aesthetics, they may do that over time. I believe that they have some significant renovations to the satellite lounge planned. (Or have those already been done? I have only been in the main terminal lounge recently.). Good question about ticket counters. I assume that they’re taking them over. What might be nicer is if they widen the TSA security checkpoint area and add a few more lanes...one can dream.

I land around 10:00 tomorrow night and my flight (the 321 from DTW) usually parks out at the satellite, so I’ll take a look around.


As of a week ago, the satellite Sky Club back area was still walled of for construction.
 
KMCOFlyer
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:58 am

tlecam wrote:
I’ve seen DL overhaul gates overnight, so I think they’ll get the gates in working order with DL branding and boarding setup quickly. Whether they do a broader overhaul of the aesthetics, they may do that over time. I believe that they have some significant renovations to the satellite lounge planned. (Or have those already been done? I have only been in the main terminal lounge recently.). Good question about ticket counters. I assume that they’re taking them over. What might be nicer is if they widen the TSA security checkpoint area and add a few more lanes...one can dream.

I land around 10:00 tomorrow night and my flight (the 321 from DTW) usually parks out at the satellite, so I’ll take a look around.


Like I said above, I’m pretty sure that when WN moved into A, that DL was using the gates before and they were basically transformed overnight. It would be nice if when DL fully gets control of the new gates that they use the main section of A for RJs and small mainline only. That section of A can get ridiculous crowded with a few A321 sized aircrafts parked there.
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:02 pm

KMCOFlyer wrote:
Like I said above, I’m pretty sure that when WN moved into A, that DL was using the gates before and they were basically transformed overnight.

The difference being that WN HAD to have the gates ready the day they moved there because they had no other place to operate from.
DL doesn't need the gates overnight as they're not significantly increasing the number of flights from yesterday to today. What I suspect they will do until the boarding areas have been reconfigured, is use those gates to park aircraft instead of having to tow them to remote parking stands.
 
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tlecam
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:22 pm

KMCOFlyer wrote:
tlecam wrote:
I’ve seen DL overhaul gates overnight, so I think they’ll get the gates in working order with DL branding and boarding setup quickly. Whether they do a broader overhaul of the aesthetics, they may do that over time. I believe that they have some significant renovations to the satellite lounge planned. (Or have those already been done? I have only been in the main terminal lounge recently.). Good question about ticket counters. I assume that they’re taking them over. What might be nicer is if they widen the TSA security checkpoint area and add a few more lanes...one can dream.

I land around 10:00 tomorrow night and my flight (the 321 from DTW) usually parks out at the satellite, so I’ll take a look around.


Like I said above, I’m pretty sure that when WN moved into A, that DL was using the gates before and they were basically transformed overnight. It would be nice if when DL fully gets control of the new gates that they use the main section of A for RJs and small mainline only. That section of A can get ridiculous crowded with a few A321 sized aircrafts parked there.


And when they board the 767 to London from A6, it's like a scene from Lord of the Flies trying to get down to the rest of the gates.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:33 pm

tlecam wrote:
KMCOFlyer wrote:
tlecam wrote:
I’ve seen DL overhaul gates overnight, so I think they’ll get the gates in working order with DL branding and boarding setup quickly. Whether they do a broader overhaul of the aesthetics, they may do that over time. I believe that they have some significant renovations to the satellite lounge planned. (Or have those already been done? I have only been in the main terminal lounge recently.). Good question about ticket counters. I assume that they’re taking them over. What might be nicer is if they widen the TSA security checkpoint area and add a few more lanes...one can dream.

I land around 10:00 tomorrow night and my flight (the 321 from DTW) usually parks out at the satellite, so I’ll take a look around.


Like I said above, I’m pretty sure that when WN moved into A, that DL was using the gates before and they were basically transformed overnight. It would be nice if when DL fully gets control of the new gates that they use the main section of A for RJs and small mainline only. That section of A can get ridiculous crowded with a few A321 sized aircrafts parked there.


And when they board the 767 to London from A6, it's like a scene from Lord of the Flies trying to get down to the rest of the gates.


Thank god I am going to AMS and not LHR I’m 3 weeks time, I will enjoy the serenity of the Satellite in comparison
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
aaflyer777
Posts: 250
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:33 pm

AS is adding a second daily BOS-SAN flight, starts May 21
https://newsroom.alaskaair.com/2019-08- ... California
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:39 pm

Looks like our friendly neighborhood Blue carrier wants to get back to doing cargo in BOS a bit

https://www.aircargonews.net/freight-fo ... -services/
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
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mikegigs
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:04 pm

airbazar wrote:
KMCOFlyer wrote:
Like I said above, I’m pretty sure that when WN moved into A, that DL was using the gates before and they were basically transformed overnight.

The difference being that WN HAD to have the gates ready the day they moved there because they had no other place to operate from.
DL doesn't need the gates overnight as they're not significantly increasing the number of flights from yesterday to today. What I suspect they will do until the boarding areas have been reconfigured, is use those gates to park aircraft instead of having to tow them to remote parking stands.


Checked the Logan website and it looks like no flights are departing from A18-A22 today, so I suppose airbazar is right in that the gates aren't needed right away. Parking aircraft at those gates would be great for them, as I've seen DL planes parked all over the place lately.

About 15 years after DL built Terminal A for their sole use, they finally have it all to themselves (almost, but we won't count WS). If 15 years ago you told me that DL and B6 would basically have an entire terminal each to themselves, while everyone else was stuffed into B, I would have never believed you.
Airports: BOS, JAX, JFK, EWR, LGA, CVG, ATL, CLT, DCA, IAD, STT, PVD, ALB, MCO
Aircraft: 733, 735, 73G, 738, 752, 717, A319, A320, MD-88, E190, E175, E145, CRJ-200, CRJ-700, Q400
Airlines: B6, CO, DL, US, NW, WN, DH
...a good start but a long way to go!
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:21 pm

VS4ever wrote:
Thank god I am going to AMS and not LHR I’m 3 weeks time, I will enjoy the serenity of the Satellite in comparison

I'm not sure it's going to be much different. They should expand the boarding areas out and over the roadway behind the terminal or build another level with expanded seating and concessions. When those gates are occupied for the evening TATL rush, it's a zoo.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:24 pm

airbazar wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
Thank god I am going to AMS and not LHR I’m 3 weeks time, I will enjoy the serenity of the Satellite in comparison

I'm not sure it's going to be much different. They should expand the boarding areas out and over the roadway behind the terminal or build another level with expanded seating and concessions. When those gates are occupied for the evening TATL rush, it's a zoo.


And that’s why you get the 1st AMS flight and not the second one. So you miss it all :)
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
KMCOFlyer
Posts: 187
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:51 pm

airbazar wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
Thank god I am going to AMS and not LHR I’m 3 weeks time, I will enjoy the serenity of the Satellite in comparison

I'm not sure it's going to be much different. They should expand the boarding areas out and over the roadway behind the terminal or build another level with expanded seating and concessions. When those gates are occupied for the evening TATL rush, it's a zoo.


DL won’t need to use A6 for widebodies in the current schedule as A18 can handle up to a 764 without blocking any other gates. I’m still surprised DL decided to give these gates up in the first place and not give WN the PMCO gates back in 2015.
 
RobertS975
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:53 pm

WN will actually improve their efficiency and turn times by this move to B. Their new gates are much closer to the taxiways and runways. Their former gates in A were the most remote gates at the airport, and subject to frequent ramp cramp and tarmac delays getting to and from.
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:04 pm

VS4ever wrote:
And that’s why you get the 1st AMS flight and not the second one. So you miss it all :)

I can't stand early TATL departures. I'll gladly pay more to leave as late as possible :)

KMCOFlyer wrote:
I’m still surprised DL decided to give these gates up in the first place and not give WN the PMCO gates back in 2015.

They were not DL's gates to give.
http://archive.boston.com/business/glob ... lta_gates/
 
KMCOFlyer
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:45 pm

airbazar wrote:


DL never had control over the entire Terminal A after bankruptcy, but DL did use gates A18-22 and the entire satellite, but half of regular A was used by UA for PMCO flights. What I was saying is that I’m surprised DL let go of A18-22 (A18 is a wide-body gate up to a 764) and not let WN use the PMCO gates that DL ended up getting, which are smaller and can only take wide bodies with nearby gates closed off.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:55 pm

VS4ever wrote:
Thank god I am going to AMS and not LHR I’m 3 weeks time, I will enjoy the serenity of the Satellite in comparison


Not to mention the Hard Brexit on October 31st. I wonder if LON airports will become no-go areas at that time...

aaflyer777 wrote:
AS is adding a second daily BOS-SAN flight, starts May 21
https://newsroom.alaskaair.com/2019-08- ... California


Unclear from the press release if this is just seasonal or perpetual.
 
B752OS
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 6:22 pm

aaflyer777 wrote:
AS is adding a second daily BOS-SAN flight, starts May 21
https://newsroom.alaskaair.com/2019-08- ... California


What's their thought process on this? Based on the fare data posted by Thpuang, they take a beating on pretty much all of their transcon flights.
 
tphuang
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 6:26 pm

B752OS wrote:
aaflyer777 wrote:
AS is adding a second daily BOS-SAN flight, starts May 21
https://newsroom.alaskaair.com/2019-08- ... California


What's their thought process on this? Based on the fare data posted by Thpuang, they take a beating on pretty much all of their transcon flights.

it's a relatively underserved route. B6 has been making so much money off this route that even though AS is much weaker, it's still profitable for them. But given that B6 is effectively adding a 3rd flight for much of the year, I don't see AS's second flight last too long.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 6:43 pm

tphuang wrote:
B752OS wrote:
aaflyer777 wrote:
AS is adding a second daily BOS-SAN flight, starts May 21
https://newsroom.alaskaair.com/2019-08- ... California


What's their thought process on this? Based on the fare data posted by Thpuang, they take a beating on pretty much all of their transcon flights.

it's a relatively underserved route. B6 has been making so much money off this route that even though AS is much weaker, it's still profitable for them. But given that B6 is effectively adding a 3rd flight for much of the year, I don't see AS's second flight last too long.


I suppose the profitability for B6 on this route is mainly due to Mint?
 
clrd4t8koff
Posts: 1455
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:57 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 6:53 pm

VS4ever wrote:
airbazar wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
Thank god I am going to AMS and not LHR I’m 3 weeks time, I will enjoy the serenity of the Satellite in comparison

I'm not sure it's going to be much different. They should expand the boarding areas out and over the roadway behind the terminal or build another level with expanded seating and concessions. When those gates are occupied for the evening TATL rush, it's a zoo.


And that’s why you get the 1st AMS flight and not the second one. So you miss it all :)


Absolutely! If you're lucky enough to sit up front the 1st AMS flight is the A330 which is infinitely better then the second AMS flight on the 76W. In Y I think they're about equal.
 
tphuang
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 6:54 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
tphuang wrote:
B752OS wrote:

What's their thought process on this? Based on the fare data posted by Thpuang, they take a beating on pretty much all of their transcon flights.

it's a relatively underserved route. B6 has been making so much money off this route that even though AS is much weaker, it's still profitable for them. But given that B6 is effectively adding a 3rd flight for much of the year, I don't see AS's second flight last too long.


I suppose the profitability for B6 on this route is mainly due to Mint?

It was profitable before mint came along too, but since mint started B6 yield has gone up and AS has gone down. This is easily their most profitable mint route out of BOS.
 
clrd4t8koff
Posts: 1455
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:57 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 6:59 pm

RobertS975 wrote:
tlecam wrote:
I’ve seen DL overhaul gates overnight, so I think they’ll get the gates in working order with DL branding and boarding setup quickly. Whether they do a broader overhaul of the aesthetics, they may do that over time. I believe that they have some significant renovations to the satellite lounge planned. (Or have those already been done? I have only been in the main terminal lounge recently.). Good question about ticket counters. I assume that they’re taking them over. What might be nicer is if they widen the TSA security checkpoint area and add a few more lanes...one can dream.

I land around 10:00 tomorrow night and my flight (the 321 from DTW) usually parks out at the satellite, so I’ll take a look around.


As of a week ago, the satellite Sky Club back area was still walled of for construction.


Flew out on DL today and can confirm the satellite SkyClub is still walled off near the restrooms for construction. The (now old) WN gates had half the hallway open and the other half was walled off (closest to the gates).

Electronic signs were at the end of the tunnel as you come into the airport with messages stating WN has moved to B, as well as reps in the A terminal in front of the old check-in counters to direct passengers over to B. Which brings up a question; now with WN gone will DL bump WS down and take over their check-in counters or will they keep WS where they are and just have additional DL counters in the old WN space? Quite frankly with the announcement of BOS as an official hub, the new SkyClub enhancements (showers, better food options) and additional D1 flights I feel like Delta has an opportunity to do something very unique and premium here with this new space like having it as a dedicated D1 counter/exclusive check in similar to what they did at LAX before they moved.
Last edited by clrd4t8koff on Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
clrd4t8koff
Posts: 1455
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:06 pm

VS4ever wrote:
Looks like our friendly neighborhood Blue carrier wants to get back to doing cargo in BOS a bit

https://www.aircargonews.net/freight-fo ... -services/


Interesting. One of the common questions posed in the BOS thread is should cargo ops be moved to Hansom, Worcester, etc. Yet now new cargo services is coming! Wonder where they will set up shop at Logan?
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 1403
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:31 pm

tphuang wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
tphuang wrote:
it's a relatively underserved route. B6 has been making so much money off this route that even though AS is much weaker, it's still profitable for them. But given that B6 is effectively adding a 3rd flight for much of the year, I don't see AS's second flight last too long.


I suppose the profitability for B6 on this route is mainly due to Mint?

It was profitable before mint came along too, but since mint started B6 yield has gone up and AS has gone down. This is easily their most profitable mint route out of BOS.


Is SAN the new SFO?
 
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VS4ever
Posts: 2158
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:02 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
airbazar wrote:
I'm not sure it's going to be much different. They should expand the boarding areas out and over the roadway behind the terminal or build another level with expanded seating and concessions. When those gates are occupied for the evening TATL rush, it's a zoo.


And that’s why you get the 1st AMS flight and not the second one. So you miss it all :)


Absolutely! If you're lucky enough to sit up front the 1st AMS flight is the A330 which is infinitely better then the second AMS flight on the 76W. In Y I think they're about equal.


Well we will be in Y+, so a little better than Y, but much prefer the 330, plus getting the 1st flight allows a early connection into BHX and get to my “home” about the same time as landing in LHR and having my parents drive up. Landing at BHX saves them 4 hours driving and at 70 plus I am ok if they don’t do that, plus we get extra hours to chill out at home
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
tphuang
Posts: 3100
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:26 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:

I suppose the profitability for B6 on this route is mainly due to Mint?

It was profitable before mint came along too, but since mint started B6 yield has gone up and AS has gone down. This is easily their most profitable mint route out of BOS.


Is SAN the new SFO?


temporarily. BOS-SFO was a route UA and VX milked until B6 put mint in the market. Then it was for a short while (like 2 quarters) B6's strongest mint route. DL entered with D1 and UA freaked out and responded with a bunch of 777s and 757s with lie flats. That made BOS-SFO a pretty rough route for about a year. But AS has since cut back on to 2x daily and DL is now down to 1x daily for most of the year with no D1 service. So BOS-SFO is now backing being an fairly profitable route for B6.

But I can see BOS-SAN getting harder if something changes like DL entering the market. B6 is probably not too upset here with AS since the 5 daily flights between them probably will keep DL out.
 
FGITD
Posts: 446
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:45 pm

Received more information about the expansion/construction recently.

Seems very likely that if you are not a US based carrier, you will be flying into and out of terminal E. Looks like significant consolidation of international operations, including those with preclear.

Also it seems that despite interest from several carriers, massport isn't entirely convinced that part time gate leases to single carriers is the best utilization of the new area.

After seeing the plans though, I think the E expansion is going to be possibly the biggest update ever made to the airport. Aside from maybe when A was rebuilt. They are in effect, building an entirely new terminal that just happens to be attached to an old one.
 
tphuang
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:39 pm

So ei and tp are going to move out of c?
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:10 pm

tphuang wrote:
So ei and tp are going to move out of c?


Appears that way, I’ve wondered however, can a 330 fit at E1-E3, because for EI, that would mean closest to Terminal C and they can have their pax turn left and exit out of C rather than exit out of E given pre-clearance. TP is the oddball and would be better out of E anyway.

Oh and voila. B6 get 3 gates back fully (although they used them at other times)
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.

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