MAH4546
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:26 pm

boeingbus wrote:
VS11 wrote:
ChrisNH38 wrote:
I’m not here to validate this thesis, but FORBES is asking whether AA let Boston ‘Get away from them.’

More Americans Are Moving West and South
https://www.voanews.com/usa/all-about-a ... -and-south


True, but those Americans that move south are typically in the lower middle class or are retired looking for the sun. Those who move south are being replaced with transplants from all over the world with lots of money. BOS may be slow-growing population-wise compared to the southern cities but the actual growth in BOS is the envy of most states and countries of the world. These new transplants have good-paying jobs, not a drain to the system and have lots of money, They travel and spend on premium seats. It's the quality and not the quantity. I think BOS is in a very good space for continued future growth. I am glad DELTA is beating AA to the punch. AA is horrid and DELTA Is a much more premium airline IMO.


Not sure where you’re making that up. There is a significant wealth flight from the Northeast to the South (well, mainly Florida) going on right now. It’s not retirees people and lower middle class, it’s the uber rich. That said, I don’t think it’s hurting Boston like it’s hurting New York and Connecticut,
a.
 
iyerhari
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:02 pm

airbazar wrote:
What about a return of BOS-SFO? Can't wait for next week.

DL flies BOS-SFO already. Are you referring to BOS-SFO not flown by DL on D1? tphuang regularly posts the details and this is not the route that DL flies very profitably.
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:25 pm

iyerhari wrote:
airbazar wrote:
What about a return of BOS-SFO? Can't wait for next week.

DL flies BOS-SFO already. Are you referring to BOS-SFO not flown by DL on D1? tphuang regularly posts the details and this is not the route that DL flies very profitably.

Well, well, they do fly the route. For some reason I didn't know that. Thank you.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:00 am

I would like a direct BOS-TYS flight. I am pretty sure if never gonna happen, but still ... you can wish :D
 
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acavpics
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:26 am

Does anyone here know why the EK and QR flights have to spend so much time on the ground here? Based on flight times, they both have about 9-10 hours turnover time. Are there no earlier departure times (Out of BOS) available for them? I was looking at their flight times to other US cities, and the only one with such lengthy turnover for EK and QR times seems to be JFK.

This just seems awfully inefficient.
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:37 pm

acavpics wrote:
Does anyone here know why the EK and QR flights have to spend so much time on the ground here? Based on flight times, they both have about 9-10 hours turnover time. Are there no earlier departure times (Out of BOS) available for them? I was looking at their flight times to other US cities, and the only one with such lengthy turnover for EK and QR times seems to be JFK.

This just seems awfully inefficient.


I’ve wondered this myself. QR used to depart back to DOH around 9pm and now it’s been pushed back to 11pm. Maybe Logan has cheaper fees for gate usage at later hours vs more prime hours? Just a guess.
 
jsteeves3
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:42 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
acavpics wrote:
Does anyone here know why the EK and QR flights have to spend so much time on the ground here? Based on flight times, they both have about 9-10 hours turnover time. Are there no earlier departure times (Out of BOS) available for them? I was looking at their flight times to other US cities, and the only one with such lengthy turnover for EK and QR times seems to be JFK.

This just seems awfully inefficient.


I’ve wondered this myself. QR used to depart back to DOH around 9pm and now it’s been pushed back to 11pm. Maybe Logan has cheaper fees for gate usage at later hours vs more prime hours? Just a guess.


These times allow for EK and QR to arrive at bank hours for pax to connect onto other flights (more options and availability)
 
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acavpics
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:45 pm

jsteeves3 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
acavpics wrote:
Does anyone here know why the EK and QR flights have to spend so much time on the ground here? Based on flight times, they both have about 9-10 hours turnover time. Are there no earlier departure times (Out of BOS) available for them? I was looking at their flight times to other US cities, and the only one with such lengthy turnover for EK and QR times seems to be JFK.

This just seems awfully inefficient.


I’ve wondered this myself. QR used to depart back to DOH around 9pm and now it’s been pushed back to 11pm. Maybe Logan has cheaper fees for gate usage at later hours vs more prime hours? Just a guess.


These times allow for EK and QR to arrive at bank hours for pax to connect onto other flights (more options and availability)


EK238's and QR744's arrival times in their destinations make connections pretty tight. If you are connecting on a flight to India after arriving from BOS, you will most likely have under 2 hours for layover, leaving very little wiggle room for delays.
 
johhn14
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:41 pm

acavpics wrote:
jsteeves3 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:

I’ve wondered this myself. QR used to depart back to DOH around 9pm and now it’s been pushed back to 11pm. Maybe Logan has cheaper fees for gate usage at later hours vs more prime hours? Just a guess.


These times allow for EK and QR to arrive at bank hours for pax to connect onto other flights (more options and availability)


EK238's and QR744's arrival times in their destinations make connections pretty tight. If you are connecting on a flight to India after arriving from BOS, you will most likely have under 2 hours for layover, leaving very little wiggle room for delays.

True but most of the other flights arriving in DOH/DXB arrive roughly around the same time. It is very common for flights departing from DOH/DXB to be held for a short while to accommodate any nominal delays of connecting passengers.
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:43 pm

acavpics wrote:
jsteeves3 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:

I’ve wondered this myself. QR used to depart back to DOH around 9pm and now it’s been pushed back to 11pm. Maybe Logan has cheaper fees for gate usage at later hours vs more prime hours? Just a guess.


These times allow for EK and QR to arrive at bank hours for pax to connect onto other flights (more options and availability)


EK238's and QR744's arrival times in their destinations make connections pretty tight. If you are connecting on a flight to India after arriving from BOS, you will most likely have under 2 hours for layover, leaving very little wiggle room for delays.


2 hours is ideal for people who want fast connections, especially business fliers. And for those who want to do some shopping (which my understanding is a lot of people), in the case of DXB at least there's another departures bank a few hours later at around 3am
Regardless the answer as to why doesn't really involve BOS. It's the time the airlines feel they can maximize their connections at their hub. It's the same reason why TATL flight all depart in the afternoon/evening, it's so they arrive in Europe in time for the first connecting bank of the day.
 
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tlecam
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:43 am

I flew in on BA213 yesterday. Flight was very full. J was completely full upstairs and 1st had at least two passengers. Arrivals at BOS we’re a breeze. The only minor hiccup was with baggage - seems like Carousel 6, which happened to be delivering premium bags, was having a rough day. Can’t say I’m a huge fan of the BA A380 J class. I still hate the reverse seats, and we were sharing a seat pair.

They’ve done a nice job with connections at LHR T5 as well. The last time I went through there (at least 15 years ago) it was a disaster.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
TYSflyer
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:25 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
I would like a direct BOS-TYS flight. I am pretty sure if never gonna happen, but still ... you can wish :D

Me too! I don’t know if I would necessarily say “never”, but we are probably a few years from a nonstop being a reality. The problem is there are easily 5-10 destinations in the east that are not currently served nonstop to BOS that would make more sense than TYS. However, Knoxville area has had some growth over the last several years and the airport has correspondingly been growing as well. The TYS airport authority has a nonstop flight to BOS as one of its priorities. It is hard to judge the PDEW as ever since the glut of flights was started on BNA-BOS a few years ago it has actually dropped the PDEW some on TYS-BOS with people just making the drive over to BNA.
 
FGITD
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:07 am

Hopefully there's no spillover into our nice little corner of this site from the DL Boston thread that's raging at the moment...

Don't know the specifics of the actual event, but from what I understand, it's just a big show about Delta having their own terminal, and how they're doing in BOS etc etc. An event meant to get the cameras showing off DL in Boston.

Don't come running with "I told you so!" If they do announce something! I don't work for them, but generally the ones with access to the information aren't the ones spilling it!
 
B752OS
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:40 am

FGITD wrote:
Hopefully there's no spillover into our nice little corner of this site from the DL Boston thread that's raging at the moment...

Don't know the specifics of the actual event, but from what I understand, it's just a big show about Delta having their own terminal, and how they're doing in BOS etc etc. An event meant to get the cameras showing off DL in Boston.

Don't come running with "I told you so!" If they do announce something! I don't work for them, but generally the ones with access to the information aren't the ones spilling it!


It will end up being a PR spot for Delta being able to announce they're getting full control of A (essentially) and highlight their recent growth and highlight their already announced additions. Reiterate they're now calling Boston a hub and also tout the SkyClub upgrades happening. Get Governor Baker out there so more local press outlets will pick up on it.
 
FGITD
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:57 pm

Appears there have been actual additions made. Shows what I know, huh?

FCO, and a second 763 to CDG. Also noticing that it is NOT replacing any AF flight. So that would make 4x CDG daily during the summer. Supposedly AF using a mix of 772/w and DL's 763s.

I did tell a certain participant in this forum in confidence a while ago that allegedly AF was looking to add a 3rd daily in the summer, but apparently it has since gone to DL, possibly due to some persuading by massport in regards to another flight during the terminal E rush hours.

Either way, next summer is a long way away. Will be very interesting to see how it pans out
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:32 pm

Yeah, more FCO and CDG, meh. We're so spoiled :)
Would love to see some competition to Germany.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:35 pm

airbazar wrote:
Yeah, more FCO and CDG, meh. We're so spoiled :)
Would love to see some competition to Germany.


Exactly. Very anticlimactic.
 
PVD757
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:55 pm

2 questions. The other thread implies CDG is an AF replacement and will still be 3x daily total. Is this the case? Does anyone know if the FCO flight is a replacement or addition to Alitalia?
 
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mikegigs
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:29 pm

PVD757 wrote:
2 questions. The other thread implies CDG is an AF replacement and will still be 3x daily total. Is this the case? Does anyone know if the FCO flight is a replacement or addition to Alitalia?


AF's second daily flight doesn't operate every day of the week, but after doing some dummy bookings I found that peak days in the summer does indeed have four flights (2 AF and 2 DL). A couple days a week only have three (2 DL and 1 AF), which may have caused the confusion on the other thread.

Looking on AZ's website, it does appear they are offering their own flights next summer, so it will be double daily JV to FCO.
Airports: BOS, JAX, JFK, EWR, LGA, CVG, ATL, CLT, DCA, IAD, STT, PVD, ALB, MCO
Aircraft: 733, 735, 73G, 738, 752, 717, A319, A320, MD-88, E190, E175, E145, CRJ-200, CRJ-700, Q400
Airlines: B6, CO, DL, US, NW, WN, DH
...a good start but a long way to go!
 
PVD757
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:48 pm

Thank you!
 
aaflyer777
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:47 pm

Kinda surprised to see a fourth daily to CDG, I know its a busy route in the summer but seems like a lot of capacity. Wonder if this will push DY off
 
massachoicetts
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:52 pm

Will FCO be daily?

Also surprised by CDG 4x
 
johhn14
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:09 pm

aaflyer777 wrote:
Kinda surprised to see a fourth daily to CDG, I know its a busy route in the summer but seems like a lot of capacity. Wonder if this will push DY off
DY flys BOS-CDG and BOS-FCO for that matter.

The same question applies to both, right? I would think so.
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:13 pm

johhn14 wrote:
aaflyer777 wrote:
Kinda surprised to see a fourth daily to CDG, I know its a busy route in the summer but seems like a lot of capacity. Wonder if this will push DY off
DY flys BOS-CDG and BOS-FCO for that matter.

The same question applies to both, right? I would think so.


We'll have to wait and see about the fares.
I'm still hopeful that DL is not yet done adding TATL for 2020. It's only September :) Only a week ago no one had even an inkling that DL was going to add 2 additional TATL routes from BOS.
 
B752OS
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:30 pm

Delta is going to have a pretty solid TATL network from Boston next summer.

London Heathrow
London Gatwick
Dublin
Lisbon
Amsterdam
Paris Charles de Gaulle
Manchester
Edinburgh

Lisbon and Edinburgh will have their seasons extended in 2020.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:20 pm

The glaring omissions are clearly Central and Eastern Europe: Nothing to FRA, nothing to MUC, nothing to ZRH, nothing to VIE, nothing to BUD, nothing to ATH.
You wonder if they are scared of Lufty (and LX, OS).
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:03 pm

all the talk of DL expansion got me looking up the newly added flights today, very strange frequencies loaded for the 2nd CDG flight and ridiculously expensive, but i am going to wait a few days for things to settle down.. must be full fare only loaded right now in some places, as it over $1,700, compared to others and FCO seems to be the same

CDG 2nd flight timings
DL226 BOS 23.40-12.40+1 CDG 767
DL227 CDG 15.40-17.30 BOS 767

FCO timings
DL20 BOS 17.00-07.15+1 FCO 333
DL21 FCO 10.45-14.15 BOS 333


anyway, while i was doing that, i came across this nutmeg of a Nov 2002 timetable.
http://www.airtimes.com/cgat/usb/delta/pdf/dl021101.pdf

the following data was based on the Dec 1st departures on a weekday, here's what BOS was going to look like (I have also ignored listings with 1 stop information so as not to double count)

ATL - 10
BGR - 3
BDA - 1
BTV - 2
CVG - 7
CAE - 1
DFW - 3
FLL - 4
RSW - 3
YHZ - 3
YUL - 3
EWR - 4
LGA - 17
JFK - 6
MCO - 7
PHL - 2
PWM - 4
RDU - 4
SLC - 3
TPA - 4
DCA - 3
PBI - 2
Total - 96

Aircraft Series
737 - 35
757 - 10
767 - 4
M80 - 11
CRJ - 7
FRJ - 29

Mainline - 60
Connection - 36

This was a fun read, as it also told you if they played a movie on board and what food was offered.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
jsteeves3
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:53 am

Can anyone update us on what gates fit what aircraft in the entire terminal A? Wanted to do a little planning but not sure which gates fit certain planes?
 
FGITD
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 24, 2019 2:37 am

A lot of misinformation being passed around in the other thread.

I may not know much, but I can fairly confidently say that Massport is not building a massive expansion to the international terminal so that Delta and Jetblue will have more space.

Will they use it? Of course. The 2 biggest tenants get their way more often than not.

However Massport seems to be looking to expand outward, not in. The goal seems to be more carriers to more destinations. Royal Air Maroc, Korean, KLM...make the news. Another DL frequency to ATL does not.

They aren't going to risk losing out on the interested middle eastern, European, and Asian carriers because they accidentally overcrowded the terminal with DL and Jetblue metal.
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:01 pm

FGITD wrote:
A lot of misinformation being passed around in the other thread.

I may not know much, but I can fairly confidently say that Massport is not building a massive expansion to the international terminal so that Delta and Jetblue will have more space.

Will they use it? Of course. The 2 biggest tenants get their way more often than not.

However Massport seems to be looking to expand outward, not in. The goal seems to be more carriers to more destinations. Royal Air Maroc, Korean, KLM...make the news. Another DL frequency to ATL does not.

They aren't going to risk losing out on the interested middle eastern, European, and Asian carriers because they accidentally overcrowded the terminal with DL and Jetblue metal.


Yeah there's a lot of people there who clearly don't understand that BOS is not ATL or SEA :) One needs only to look at the A380 gates. When EK wanted one in SEA they were told to go pound sand. When they wanted one here Massport bent over backwards for them.
Honestly I think the terminal E expansion is just Massport catching up to current demand rather than building for future demand. They dropped the ball when they expanded terminal E the last time which was supposed to have 3(?) extra gates to begin with and now they've been caught with their pants down, sort of speak :)
I can't imagine that many new international carriers coming to Boston in the foreseeable future. Really who is realistically left? ANA to Tokyo? SQ via Europe? Ethiopian? Air India? Another Chinese carrier? Anyone left from Europe?
I think the future of international expansion at BOS will come from DL and B6 on smaller airplanes, and from B6 there's still a big question mark IMO.
 
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tlecam
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:51 pm

B752OS wrote:
Delta is going to have a pretty solid TATL network from Boston next summer.

London Heathrow
London Gatwick
Dublin
Lisbon
Amsterdam
Paris Charles de Gaulle
Manchester
Edinburgh

Lisbon and Edinburgh will have their seasons extended in 2020.


And now Roma!
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
ChrisNH38
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:58 pm

Can someone who's been to both compare Edinburgh and Glasgow? It's only 50 miles between them, so is Delta probably NOT going to serve Glasgow because they're already in Edinburgh? Maybe it has to do with incentives?
https://my.flightradar24.com/ChrisNH
 
RobertS975
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:16 pm

VS4ever wrote:
all the talk of DL expansion got me looking up the newly added flights today, very strange frequencies loaded for the 2nd CDG flight and ridiculously expensive, but i am going to wait a few days for things to settle down.. must be full fare only loaded right now in some places, as it over $1,700, compared to others and FCO seems to be the same

CDG 2nd flight timings
DL226 BOS 23.40-12.40+1 CDG 767
DL227 CDG 15.40-17.30 BOS 767

FCO timings
DL20 BOS 17.00-07.15+1 FCO 333
DL21 FCO 10.45-14.15 BOS 333


anyway, while i was doing that, i came across this nutmeg of a Nov 2002 timetable.
http://www.airtimes.com/cgat/usb/delta/pdf/dl021101.pdf

the following data was based on the Dec 1st departures on a weekday, here's what BOS was going to look like (I have also ignored listings with 1 stop information so as not to double count)

ATL - 10
BGR - 3
BDA - 1
BTV - 2
CVG - 7
CAE - 1
DFW - 3
FLL - 4
RSW - 3
YHZ - 3
YUL - 3
EWR - 4
LGA - 17
JFK - 6
MCO - 7
PHL - 2
PWM - 4
RDU - 4
SLC - 3
TPA - 4
DCA - 3
PBI - 2
Total - 96

Aircraft Series
737 - 35
757 - 10
767 - 4
M80 - 11
CRJ - 7
FRJ - 29

Mainline - 60
Connection - 36

This was a fun read, as it also told you if they played a movie on board and what food was offered.


Losing my bearings with regard to times....many of the listed flights to FL were either Delta Express all coach 737s or Song 757s, again all coach. Song, it should be remembrred, was a brand and a paint job, never its own airline. Song painted 757s were flown by DL pilots, maintained by DL mechanics, under DL opereating authority. Only the FAs were split off from the rest of DL. When Song flights were in the air, they had DL call signs.
.
.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:14 pm

ChrisNH38 wrote:
Can someone who's been to both compare Edinburgh and Glasgow? It's only 50 miles between them, so is Delta probably NOT going to serve Glasgow because they're already in Edinburgh? Maybe it has to do with incentives?


As the expat Englishman here, let me try and answer this. Yes there are 50 miles between them but you have to remember the markets in England are much closer together pretty much all over, so mileage is More of a technicality. Ironically each airport is at either end of the M8 motorway making access to both relatively similar as both airports are on the West side of their respective cities.

Anyway, Edinburgh usually gets first dibs as it’s the capital and this has the political centers along with the Edinburgh Festival, Castle and much more, so connections are important and tourists heavy in number because of that, however it’s slightly smaller than its friend down the road by about 100,000 (500k to 600k population) and is a great stopping off point for access to the Highlands and Islands, suffice to say it has its own abilities, so they could entertain limited service I suspect if connections were possible at a reasonable price. A lot of folks fly down to LHR, AMS, CDG and across from there, even though it’s an hour+ flight

My thought here is that 321 service could be possible from both without flooding the market. The 757 to EDI makes sense given their slightly higher tourist availability, but if the economics work. A dual set up with 3x weekly to GLA is not out of the realms of possibility a couple of years down the line. (Big if on the economics of course before I get jumped on like I did about my DUS comments in the other thread)

So there you have it, EDI was definitely the right choice, but if DL are thinking of growing further and summer seasonal is the answer, GLA might be considered an option, because if the pricing is right, not having to schlep down south might not be a terrible plan, but the pricing would have to be on point no doubt.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
KMCOFlyer
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:38 pm

Looks like DL finally started using A18-A22 today.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:40 pm

KMCOFlyer wrote:
Looks like DL finally started using A18-A22 today.


Yep, Bastians visit was the ribbon cutting for it.
Now we will see some fun in Terminal A as DL get to use the Terminal to its fullest (with the minor exception of WS using A1.)
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:53 pm

Can we expect complete trash yields to CDG? I mean, 4x daily plus DY seems overkill?

TYSflyer wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
I would like a direct BOS-TYS flight. I am pretty sure if never gonna happen, but still ... you can wish :D

Me too! I don’t know if I would necessarily say “never”, but we are probably a few years from a nonstop being a reality. The problem is there are easily 5-10 destinations in the east that are not currently served nonstop to BOS that would make more sense than TYS. However, Knoxville area has had some growth over the last several years and the airport has correspondingly been growing as well. The TYS airport authority has a nonstop flight to BOS as one of its priorities. It is hard to judge the PDEW as ever since the glut of flights was started on BNA-BOS a few years ago it has actually dropped the PDEW some on TYS-BOS with people just making the drive over to BNA.


I recently was in Knoxville on business and a lot of things looked brand new. I also noticed several seemingly brand new tech centers near the river.
 
FGITD
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:09 am

Dieuwer wrote:
Can we expect complete trash yields to CDG? I mean, 4x daily plus DY seems overkill?


might be a move to undercut the route. And I'm fairly certain the ones flying 4x a day aren't going to lose that battle to a 1x daily. DY might have lower operating costs, but it's just plain tough to fight when your opponents run so many seats a day.

Though last summer there were a number of days where AF was 2x 77w, DL had their 763, and DY's 789, and all of them were completely full.

I will be genuinely interested to see how the numbers look for this past summer, because from ground level it certainly looked like everyone from E was filling seats.
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 1532
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:11 am

FGITD wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Can we expect complete trash yields to CDG? I mean, 4x daily plus DY seems overkill?


might be a move to undercut the route. And I'm fairly certain the ones flying 4x a day aren't going to lose that battle to a 1x daily. DY might have lower operating costs, but it's just plain tough to fight when your opponents run so many seats a day.

Though last summer there were a number of days where AF was 2x 77w, DL had their 763, and DY's 789, and all of them were completely full.

I will be genuinely interested to see how the numbers look for this past summer, because from ground level it certainly looked like everyone from E was filling seats.


Lots of people on this board proclaim that "Full Flights Do Not Equate Profits". ;)
 
FGITD
Posts: 476
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:44 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:11 am

Dieuwer wrote:

Lots of people on this board proclaim that "Full Flights Do Not Equate Profits". ;)


Ah but therein lies the beauty of details. I never said they were making a profit, just that it would make it tough for DY. (And beyond that, I think it's fairly well established that DL doesn't mind taking a hit to outdo a competitor)

It is interesting though, according to many members on these boards full flights don't mean profit, n does or belly cargo make any money, and yet somehow airlines make money.

I think we can therefore establish that the most profitable airline is one which owns no airplanes, has no staff, sells no seats, and books no cargo.
 
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adamh8297
Posts: 3096
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:28 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:02 am

FGITD wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Can we expect complete trash yields to CDG? I mean, 4x daily plus DY seems overkill?


might be a move to undercut the route. And I'm fairly certain the ones flying 4x a day aren't going to lose that battle to a 1x daily. DY might have lower operating costs, but it's just plain tough to fight when your opponents run so many seats a day.

Though last summer there were a number of days where AF was 2x 77w, DL had their 763, and DY's 789, and all of them were completely full.

I will be genuinely interested to see how the numbers look for this past summer, because from ground level it certainly looked like everyone from E was filling seats.



They are going for the DY jugular - For July 2020 - Basic Economy under $500, Economy is under $600.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
User avatar
VS4ever
Posts: 2234
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:45 am

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... ce-in-s20/

Confirmation of timings for FCO on DL plus the season is going to be 5/21 to 9/7 next year
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
ChrisNH38
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:53 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:39 am

Nice to get a ‘vanity plate’ flight number on the Rome service.
https://my.flightradar24.com/ChrisNH
 
tphuang
Posts: 3229
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:44 pm

It seems like AF is only 2x for July and August. DY looks to be subdaily during that time. My guess is the final schedule hasn't fully been played out yet.

FGITD wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Can we expect complete trash yields to CDG? I mean, 4x daily plus DY seems overkill?


might be a move to undercut the route. And I'm fairly certain the ones flying 4x a day aren't going to lose that battle to a 1x daily. DY might have lower operating costs, but it's just plain tough to fight when your opponents run so many seats a day.

Though last summer there were a number of days where AF was 2x 77w, DL had their 763, and DY's 789, and all of them were completely full.

I will be genuinely interested to see how the numbers look for this past summer, because from ground level it certainly looked like everyone from E was filling seats.


The more seats you have, the more seats you need to sell at discount to fill. If DY is cutting back to subdaily, they actually should have an easier time to fill the planes. All the evening TATL departures operate in a 5 hour window. Anyone that's willing to fly at 7 pm is probably willing to fly out at 10 PM also. Someone who needs to get into Paris at a certain time for a meeting probably isn't going to fly DY in the first place. It's not like domestic flight where departures are spaced out over 15 hours and people simply can't fly at certain hours of the day.
 
RobertS975
Posts: 939
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 2:17 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:33 pm

VS4ever wrote:
KMCOFlyer wrote:
Looks like DL finally started using A18-A22 today.


Yep, Bastians visit was the ribbon cutting for it.
Now we will see some fun in Terminal A as DL get to use the Terminal to its fullest (with the minor exception of WS using A1.)


WS does not overnight at BOS so DL gets to use gate A1 for a couple of early AM departures prior to the first WS arrival.
 
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VS4ever
Posts: 2234
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:50 pm

So the timings seem to have settled down now, from what i see AF look like they are starting their double daily on 7/1, at that point we are going to have the following schedule, so 5 daily on 4 days per week. (schedule taken from 7/1 and rolled forward a week to confirm days etc.) as it's late here, I haven't gone into which variant of 767 or 777 it is etc.

Timings are below, interesting that AF block 15 minutes longer than DY do.

Outbound:

AF333 BOS 18.05 – 0700+1CDG 777 D
DL404 BOS 19.06 - 0810+1CDG 767 D
DY7150 BOS 2200 - 1040+1CDG 787 x246
AF321 BOS 2210 - 1105+1CDG 777 D
DL226 BOS 2340 - 1240+1CDG 767 D

Inbound:

DL405 CDG1020 - 1222BOS 767 D
AF334 CDG1405 - 1555BOS 777 D
DL227 CDG1540 - 1730BOS 767 D
DY7149 CDG1820 - 2000BOS 787 x246
AF322 CDG1820 - 2015BOS 777 D
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
User avatar
adamh8297
Posts: 3096
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:28 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:54 pm

tphuang wrote:
It seems like AF is only 2x for July and August. DY looks to be subdaily during that time. My guess is the final schedule hasn't fully been played out yet.

FGITD wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Can we expect complete trash yields to CDG? I mean, 4x daily plus DY seems overkill?


might be a move to undercut the route. And I'm fairly certain the ones flying 4x a day aren't going to lose that battle to a 1x daily. DY might have lower operating costs, but it's just plain tough to fight when your opponents run so many seats a day.

Though last summer there were a number of days where AF was 2x 77w, DL had their 763, and DY's 789, and all of them were completely full.

I will be genuinely interested to see how the numbers look for this past summer, because from ground level it certainly looked like everyone from E was filling seats.


The more seats you have, the more seats you need to sell at discount to fill. If DY is cutting back to subdaily, they actually should have an easier time to fill the planes. All the evening TATL departures operate in a 5 hour window. Anyone that's willing to fly at 7 pm is probably willing to fly out at 10 PM also. Someone who needs to get into Paris at a certain time for a meeting probably isn't going to fly DY in the first place. It's not like domestic flight where departures are spaced out over 15 hours and people simply can't fly at certain hours of the day.


DY has never been daily on BOS-CDG always 4x weekly

I'm surprised DL/AF do not try for a 5pm departure instead of 6pm to arrive in DeGaulle by 6am. I understand it may be a gate availability issue and/or doesn't matter for the departure banks at CDG.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
Chugach
Posts: 1229
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:18 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:58 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
BOS-SAT is far enough to require mainline. That looks like a tough putt to me, with DTW-SAT at just 3x CR9.


Require mainline? Delta flew SEA-FAI on the E75 which is a distance of 2,146 miles. BOS-SAT is only 2,045 miles. It wouldn’t require mainline, though they might prefer that.


Huh? SEA-FAI is 1,533 miles.
 
clrd4t8koff
Posts: 1512
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:57 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:35 am

Chugach wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
BOS-SAT is far enough to require mainline. That looks like a tough putt to me, with DTW-SAT at just 3x CR9.


Require mainline? Delta flew SEA-FAI on the E75 which is a distance of 2,146 miles. BOS-SAT is only 2,045 miles. It wouldn’t require mainline, though they might prefer that.


Huh? SEA-FAI is 1,533 miles.


Huh? Where would you even come up with such a low number.

https://www.trippy.com/distance/Seattle-to-Fairbanks

https://check-distance.com/route/fairba ... seattle-wa

Even if you’re looking at only the flying distance in miles it still wouldn’t *require* mainline. UA flys MSN-SFO on the E75, which is longer than BOS-SAT. DL most definitely wouldn’t have to use mainline, though as I mentioned earlier they might prefer to.
 
FGITD
Posts: 476
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:44 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:47 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
Chugach wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:

Require mainline? Delta flew SEA-FAI on the E75 which is a distance of 2,146 miles. BOS-SAT is only 2,045 miles. It wouldn’t require mainline, though they might prefer that.


Huh? SEA-FAI is 1,533 miles.


Huh? Where would you even come up with such a low number.

https://www.trippy.com/distance/Seattle-to-Fairbanks

https://check-distance.com/route/fairba ... seattle-wa



http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=sea-fai

Driving distance is considerably further, flying...not so much.

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