clrd4t8koff
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:55 am

FGITD wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
Chugach wrote:

Huh? SEA-FAI is 1,533 miles.


Huh? Where would you even come up with such a low number.

https://www.trippy.com/distance/Seattle-to-Fairbanks

https://check-distance.com/route/fairba ... seattle-wa



http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=sea-fai

Driving distance is considerably further, flying...not so much.


Why would you quote me out of context and leave off the part where I said exactly that?

“Even if you’re looking at only the flying distance in miles it still wouldn’t *require* mainline. UA flys MSN-SFO on the E75, which is longer than BOS-SAT. DL most definitely wouldn’t have to use mainline, though as I mentioned earlier they might prefer to.”
 
FGITD
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:39 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
FGITD wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:



http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=sea-fai

Driving distance is considerably further, flying...not so much.


Why would you quote me out of context and leave off the part where I said exactly that?

“Even if you’re looking at only the flying distance in miles it still wouldn’t *require* mainline. UA flys MSN-SFO on the E75, which is longer than BOS-SAT. DL most definitely wouldn’t have to use mainline, though as I mentioned earlier they might prefer to.”


I wouldn't say out of context, as you did tell the other user they were using a wrong distance. Really, no one is wrong here, it's just that airlines don't care about the driving distance

I won't go into the regional vs mainline argument because I know very little about how those decisions are made.
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:22 pm

adamh8297 wrote:
I'm surprised DL/AF do not try for a 5pm departure instead of 6pm to arrive in DeGaulle by 6am. I understand it may be a gate availability issue and/or doesn't matter for the departure banks at CDG.

I am convinced that the "early morning arrival for a meeting" is as much an a.net myth as anything else. Wich i snot to say that business people don't want to arrive at a decent time, just not the the awfully inhumane pre-7am time frame :) LHR has a lot of TATL early morning arrivals because it's 1 hour "closer" and it's heavily congested so they have no choice but to use those early arrival slots. It's also a much busier TATL market. CDG/FRA/AMS don't have that many TATL arrivals before 7am. They seem to reserve those really early arrivals for Asian arrivals.
 
Chugach
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:20 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
Chugach wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:

Require mainline? Delta flew SEA-FAI on the E75 which is a distance of 2,146 miles. BOS-SAT is only 2,045 miles. It wouldn’t require mainline, though they might prefer that.


Huh? SEA-FAI is 1,533 miles.


Huh? Where would you even come up with such a low number.



I’ve flown SEA-FAI dozens of times. Great Circle Mapper, along with my AS frequent flier account, corroborate my assertion.
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:54 pm

airbazar wrote:
adamh8297 wrote:
I'm surprised DL/AF do not try for a 5pm departure instead of 6pm to arrive in DeGaulle by 6am. I understand it may be a gate availability issue and/or doesn't matter for the departure banks at CDG.

I am convinced that the "early morning arrival for a meeting" is as much an a.net myth as anything else. Wich i snot to say that business people don't want to arrive at a decent time, just not the the awfully inhumane pre-7am time frame :) LHR has a lot of TATL early morning arrivals because it's 1 hour "closer" and it's heavily congested so they have no choice but to use those early arrival slots. It's also a much busier TATL market. CDG/FRA/AMS don't have that many TATL arrivals before 7am. They seem to reserve those really early arrivals for Asian arrivals.


True - I wasn't thinking making morning meetings for the business travel crowd as I was thinking hub bank i.e 7:00am ish departures from CDG.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:07 pm

Chugach wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
Chugach wrote:

Huh? SEA-FAI is 1,533 miles.


Huh? Where would you even come up with such a low number.



I’ve flown SEA-FAI dozens of times. Great Circle Mapper, along with my AS frequent flier account, corroborate my assertion.


Look if you want to win this argument you can win it. My point to the original poster is still the same and correct. DL would not be *required* to fly mainline if they ever wished to open BOS-SAT. And that’s the last I’m going to post about this. Move on.
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:09 pm

With DL announcing the purchase of a 20% stake in LATAM and LA leaving OW, this could get interesting for BOS.

https://onemileatatime.com/delta-latam/ ... In%20LATAM

With DL’s ambitions to grow BOS and beat B6 to the punch I have to wonder if DL would look to replace LA on BOS-GRU with their own 76W as it’s a much nicer premium product. Or might we see DL supplement LA and add BOS-GIG?
 
Abeam79
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:30 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
With DL announcing the purchase of a 20% stake in LATAM and LA leaving OW, this could get interesting for BOS.

https://onemileatatime.com/delta-latam/ ... In%20LATAM

With DL’s ambitions to grow BOS and beat B6 to the punch I have to wonder if DL would look to replace LA on BOS-GRU with their own 76W as it’s a much nicer premium product. Or might we see DL supplement LA and add BOS-GIG?


I doubt it, why would delta to put money out and invest in another airline and then on top of it go through more capital expenditures to operated on their own? They will very likely just subsidize a little bit the current latam flight. Plus the pilots union at Delta already fighting them on their scope of these joint ventures. And I’m also hearing that as soon as B6 starts rolling their mint to 2.0, and expand transatlantic a lot of the corporate contracts in the Boston area are looking to sign up with JetBlue. This is why Delta is doing this expansion now because they are seeing that they are going to have quite a challenge and they are getting nervous in Boston with B6 having more gates and ramp space and they aren’t done expanding vs delta is maxed out. And they’re trying to pump up revenues in the beginning so they could eventually not incur too far into the red down the road for their bos ops. They are currently not doing so hot in Boston versus B6 which are making a nice profit out of there. I think Delta is underestimating B6 to be quite honest. But not as much as they did in the past in JFK.
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:37 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
With DL announcing the purchase of a 20% stake in LATAM and LA leaving OW, this could get interesting for BOS.

https://onemileatatime.com/delta-latam/ ... In%20LATAM

With DL’s ambitions to grow BOS and beat B6 to the punch I have to wonder if DL would look to replace LA on BOS-GRU with their own 76W as it’s a much nicer premium product. Or might we see DL supplement LA and add BOS-GIG?


A Latin America supplement DL could look at is BOS-BOG. BOG is called a hub for LATAM Colombia but its really a focus - around 15 destinations. GIG wouldn't be suitable for BOS (better business ties with GRU obviously and the VFR is big with CNF). DL may not want to compete with CM for Northern South America though unless they think they can get premium traffic.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
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tlecam
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:40 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
With DL announcing the purchase of a 20% stake in LATAM and LA leaving OW, this could get interesting for BOS.

https://onemileatatime.com/delta-latam/ ... In%20LATAM

With DL’s ambitions to grow BOS and beat B6 to the punch I have to wonder if DL would look to replace LA on BOS-GRU with their own 76W as it’s a much nicer premium product. Or might we see DL supplement LA and add BOS-GIG?


I had the same thought. Those a long thin routes ex-BOS. The JV will help, but time will tell. I’ll have to look and see which other hubs are already connected and which aren’t.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:44 pm

Ok, now the dust has settled on the new info we have, here's the DL TATL schedule as it currently stands, again using 7/1/20 as the analysis point. This is quite the impressive list when you look at it now on their own metal, when you add in KL, AF, VS, KE and the like, huge amount of capacity going across the pond on a daily basis.

2 330 departures at pretty much the same time, looks like (given the information from a different thread) that those will leave from A14 and A16 as those are the gates that will take 330's, the others will mix and match themselves. That 7pm to 8pm departure hour year round is going to be busy unless they start using A19 for a 767.

11 TATL flights daily in the summer now from just 4 a couple of years ago (2x AMS, 1xLHR and 1xCDG), 5 of them year round right now and if i was a betting man, (which i am not), I could see a couple more converting to year round namely DUB, EDI and LIS

Outbound:

DL256 BOS1657 - 0550+1AMS 330 D (Year round)
DL20 BOS1700 - 0715+1FCO 330 D (5/21 to 9/7)
DL258 BOS1856 - 0800+1AMS 767 D (Year round)
DL404 BOS1906 - 0810+1CDG 767 D (Year round)
DL58 BOS1952 - 0720+1LHR 767 D (Year round)
DL112 BOS2100 - 0845+1LGW 757 D (Year round)
DL124 BOS2115 - 0855+1LIS 757 D (5/21 to 9/29)
DL154 BOS2145 - 0850+1DUB 767 D (5/21 to 9/7) - assumption as schedule doesn't go beyond 8/23 and unlike EDI and LIS, they have not said it's going longer, yet
DL114 BOS2200 - 0930+1MAN 757 D (5/21 to 9/7)
DL122 BOS2203 - 0925+1EDI 757 D (5/21 to 9/29)
DL226 BOS2340 - 1240+1CDG 767 D (5/21 to 9/7)

Inbound:

DL59 LHR0940 - 1210BOS 767 D
DL405 CDG1020 - 1222BOS 767 D
DL155 DUB1035 - 1240BOS 767 D
DL123 EDI1040 - 1301BOS 757 D
DL125 LIS1025 - 1315BOS 757 D
DL259 AMS1120 - 1315BOS 330 D
DL113 LGW1030 - 1320BOS 757 D
DL115 MAN1130 - 1400BOS 757 D
DL21 FCO1045 - 1415BOS 330 D
DL257 AMS1440 - 1650BOS 767 D
DL227 CDG1540 - 1730BOS 767 D

Partners:
KL - AMS 5 weekly x46
AF- CDG- 2 daily summer
VS - LHR - 2 daily
KE - ICN - 5 weekly x14
AZ - FCO - 1 daily
a little too soon to add LA into the mix, but still...
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
tphuang
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:57 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
With DL announcing the purchase of a 20% stake in LATAM and LA leaving OW, this could get interesting for BOS.

https://onemileatatime.com/delta-latam/ ... In%20LATAM

With DL’s ambitions to grow BOS and beat B6 to the punch I have to wonder if DL would look to replace LA on BOS-GRU with their own 76W as it’s a much nicer premium product. Or might we see DL supplement LA and add BOS-GIG?

Keep in mind that dl just had a JV with am that actually caused them to drop service to mex. And their JV effort with ws has not stopped ws from cutting their operation to just 2 flights to Toronto.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 27, 2019 1:00 am

Would be fun to see LA departing from Terminal A.
Now we know why Delta needed all those gates back! :D
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 27, 2019 1:19 am

VS4ever wrote:
Ok, now the dust has settled on the new info we have, here's the DL TATL schedule as it currently stands, again using 7/1/20 as the analysis point. This is quite the impressive list when you look at it now on their own metal, when you add in KL, AF, VS, KE and the like, huge amount of capacity going across the pond on a daily basis.

2 330 departures at pretty much the same time, looks like (given the information from a different thread) that those will leave from A14 and A16 as those are the gates that will take 330's, the others will mix and match themselves. That 7pm to 8pm departure hour year round is going to be busy unless they start using A19 for a 767.

11 TATL flights daily in the summer now from just 4 a couple of years ago (2x AMS, 1xLHR and 1xCDG), 5 of them year round right now and if i was a betting man, (which i am not), I could see a couple more converting to year round namely DUB, EDI and LIS

Outbound:

DL256 BOS1657 - 0550+1AMS 330 D (Year round)
DL20 BOS1700 - 0715+1FCO 330 D (5/21 to 9/7)
DL258 BOS1856 - 0800+1AMS 767 D (Year round)
DL404 BOS1906 - 0810+1CDG 767 D (Year round)
DL58 BOS1952 - 0720+1LHR 767 D (Year round)
DL112 BOS2100 - 0845+1LGW 757 D (Year round)
DL124 BOS2115 - 0855+1LIS 757 D (5/21 to 9/29)
DL154 BOS2145 - 0850+1DUB 767 D (5/21 to 9/7) - assumption as schedule doesn't go beyond 8/23 and unlike EDI and LIS, they have not said it's going longer, yet
DL114 BOS2200 - 0930+1MAN 757 D (5/21 to 9/7)
DL122 BOS2203 - 0925+1EDI 757 D (5/21 to 9/29)
DL226 BOS2340 - 1240+1CDG 767 D (5/21 to 9/7)

Inbound:

DL59 LHR0940 - 1210BOS 767 D
DL405 CDG1020 - 1222BOS 767 D
DL155 DUB1035 - 1240BOS 767 D
DL123 EDI1040 - 1301BOS 757 D
DL125 LIS1025 - 1315BOS 757 D
DL259 AMS1120 - 1315BOS 330 D
DL113 LGW1030 - 1320BOS 757 D
DL115 MAN1130 - 1400BOS 757 D
DL21 FCO1045 - 1415BOS 330 D
DL257 AMS1440 - 1650BOS 767 D
DL227 CDG1540 - 1730BOS 767 D

Partners:
KL - AMS 5 weekly x46
AF- CDG- 2 daily summer
VS - LHR - 2 daily
KE - ICN - 5 weekly x14
AZ - FCO - 1 daily
a little too soon to add LA into the mix, but still...


I believe DUB starts in March.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 27, 2019 2:10 am

Abeam79 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
With DL announcing the purchase of a 20% stake in LATAM and LA leaving OW, this could get interesting for BOS.

https://onemileatatime.com/delta-latam/ ... In%20LATAM

With DL’s ambitions to grow BOS and beat B6 to the punch I have to wonder if DL would look to replace LA on BOS-GRU with their own 76W as it’s a much nicer premium product. Or might we see DL supplement LA and add BOS-GIG?


I doubt it, why would delta to put money out and invest in another airline and then on top of it go through more capital expenditures to operated on their own? They will very likely just subsidize a little bit the current latam flight. Plus the pilots union at Delta already fighting them on their scope of these joint ventures. And I’m also hearing that as soon as B6 starts rolling their mint to 2.0, and expand transatlantic a lot of the corporate contracts in the Boston area are looking to sign up with JetBlue. This is why Delta is doing this expansion now because they are seeing that they are going to have quite a challenge and they are getting nervous in Boston with B6 having more gates and ramp space and they aren’t done expanding vs delta is maxed out. And they’re trying to pump up revenues in the beginning so they could eventually not incur too far into the red down the road for their bos ops. They are currently not doing so hot in Boston versus B6 which are making a nice profit out of there. I think Delta is underestimating B6 to be quite honest. But not as much as they did in the past in JFK.


I’m not sure I follow your post but I’ll give it a shot. My theory as to why DL would potentially replace LA on BOS-GRU is because DL is doing everything in their power to live up to their “BOS Global Airline” slogan. Just look at the recent addition of the second daily BOS-CDG....it wasn’t added by AF, it was added by DL. The second FCO-BOS wasn’t added by AZ, it was DL. The new LGW to BOS wasn’t added by VS, but yet again - DL.

If DL wants to be BOS Global Airline and secure business contracts they aren’t going to win much with LA operating an outdated 2-2-2 J cabin vs DL’s all aisle access. Everyone is talking about B6 and their TATL plans but don’t lose sight of the fact that South America, specifically GRU, could be another option once they get their long-haul A321XLR aircraft. DL has the right size plane for BOS-GRU and with a better product. To me it’s more of “why wouldn’t DL replace LA on BOS-GRU?”
 
Abeam79
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 27, 2019 3:38 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
Abeam79 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
With DL announcing the purchase of a 20% stake in LATAM and LA leaving OW, this could get interesting for BOS.

https://onemileatatime.com/delta-latam/ ... In%20LATAM

With DL’s ambitions to grow BOS and beat B6 to the punch I have to wonder if DL would look to replace LA on BOS-GRU with their own 76W as it’s a much nicer premium product. Or might we see DL supplement LA and add BOS-GIG?


I doubt it, why would delta to put money out and invest in another airline and then on top of it go through more capital expenditures to operated on their own? They will very likely just subsidize a little bit the current latam flight. Plus the pilots union at Delta already fighting them on their scope of these joint ventures. And I’m also hearing that as soon as B6 starts rolling their mint to 2.0, and expand transatlantic a lot of the corporate contracts in the Boston area are looking to sign up with JetBlue. This is why Delta is doing this expansion now because they are seeing that they are going to have quite a challenge and they are getting nervous in Boston with B6 having more gates and ramp space and they aren’t done expanding vs delta is maxed out. And they’re trying to pump up revenues in the beginning so they could eventually not incur too far into the red down the road for their bos ops. They are currently not doing so hot in Boston versus B6 which are making a nice profit out of there. I think Delta is underestimating B6 to be quite honest. But not as much as they did in the past in JFK.


I’m not sure I follow your post but I’ll give it a shot. My theory as to why DL would potentially replace LA on BOS-GRU is because DL is doing everything in their power to live up to their “BOS Global Airline” slogan. Just look at the recent addition of the second daily BOS-CDG....it wasn’t added by AF, it was added by DL. The second FCO-BOS wasn’t added by AZ, it was DL. The new LGW to BOS wasn’t added by VS, but yet again - DL.

If DL wants to be BOS Global Airline and secure business contracts they aren’t going to win much with LA operating an outdated 2-2-2 J cabin vs DL’s all aisle access. Everyone is talking about B6 and their TATL plans but don’t lose sight of the fact that South America, specifically GRU, could be another option once they get their long-haul A321XLR aircraft. DL has the right size plane for BOS-GRU and with a better product. To me it’s more of “why wouldn’t DL replace LA on BOS-GRU?”

All good points, but LA controls the POS from bog and Brazil’s. I don’t think there is enough revenue delta to get pos revenue from Boston. Also I would argue that delta has a better product for the bos-gru flight. B6 mint 2.0 isn’t out yet, and their current mint product is noted as the better product by various metrics. Delta with its transatlantic sched still pales in comparison to what B6 will eventually turn bos into. They are just trying to hopefully get ahead to lessen the red. “Boston global airline “ coming from delta is to my opinion deltas usual PR bravado strategy, but lacking in reality. They say they are “ny #1 airline” what does that mean? Most asm’s out of ny? No that’s united out of ewr with a much more robust international global profile than deltas jfk. They are not #1 by being the most popular hometown ny airline cause that’s B6. Again, delta just talks a big game.
 
dtremit
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:02 am

adamh8297 wrote:
A Latin America supplement DL could look at is BOS-BOG. BOG is called a hub for LATAM Colombia but its really a focus - around 15 destinations.


BOS-BOG is also a comfortable narrowbody route -- it's slightly shorter than BOS-SFO. Could even be an A220 route.
 
digitalcloud
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Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:03 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:32 am

ChrisNH38 wrote:
Can someone who's been to both compare Edinburgh and Glasgow? It's only 50 miles between them, so is Delta probably NOT going to serve Glasgow because they're already in Edinburgh? Maybe it has to do with incentives?


Delta already serve Glasgow.
 
massachoicetts
Posts: 22
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:33 am

dtremit wrote:
adamh8297 wrote:
A Latin America supplement DL could look at is BOS-BOG. BOG is called a hub for LATAM Colombia but its really a focus - around 15 destinations.


BOS-BOG is also a comfortable narrowbody route -- it's slightly shorter than BOS-SFO. Could even be an A220 route.



Very good point here. I think when DL starts ramping up the A220 service from BOS, BOG could be tried again with an A220. 140 seats would be ideal for that route considering that LA served it on a 737 iirc? The A220 is perfect for BOS, and I think DL/B6 will do fine with the A220 both. We keep hearing SAT, I think would best be served by a 1x/2x A220. If DL had about 10 more BOS gates, I think wed see a pretty decent sized hub here in BOS.

And someone made a comment about companies lining up to use B6 when they go TATL? This is very true. The BPDA flies its folk to SFO/LGA/LAX/ORD via B6 and I remember hearing when/if B6 goes to LON, theyll be signing up for that. Its still too early to tell, but there is a lot of corporate excitement in the air for B6's TATL arrival here in BOS.
 
airbazar
Posts: 9698
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:20 pm

tphuang wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
With DL announcing the purchase of a 20% stake in LATAM and LA leaving OW, this could get interesting for BOS.

https://onemileatatime.com/delta-latam/ ... In%20LATAM

With DL’s ambitions to grow BOS and beat B6 to the punch I have to wonder if DL would look to replace LA on BOS-GRU with their own 76W as it’s a much nicer premium product. Or might we see DL supplement LA and add BOS-GIG?

Keep in mind that dl just had a JV with am that actually caused them to drop service to mex. And their JV effort with ws has not stopped ws from cutting their operation to just 2 flights to Toronto.

I have my doubts that GRU-BOS is profitable so I don't think DL would venture into that. I suspect that either India or Asia would be more profitable than GRU. DL and LATAM are an odd relationship to say the least. MIA is by far their biggest market and yet DL's presence in MIA is, well kind of insignificant. To me the most interesting part of this deal is the news that DL is acquiring 14 of LATAM's A350's. That spells a lot of long haul growth for DL and by association one can infer more long haul flights for BOS. Maybe those are the A350 that DL needs to start BOS-India and BOS-Asia. :crossfingers: :crossfingers:
dtremit wrote:
BOS-BOG is also a comfortable narrowbody route -- it's slightly shorter than BOS-SFO. Could even be an A220 route.


But BOG is at 8,300ft of altitude. That's why AV flies A319's from there to N.America. I'm not familiar with the A220 high altitude takeoff performance tho.
 
airbazar
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Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 27, 2019 1:41 pm

P.S. I just realized what I typed above and yes I do know that India is in Asia. By Asia I meant East Asia :)
 
HVNandrew
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:24 pm

Abeam79 wrote:
All good points, but LA controls the POS from bog and Brazil’s. I don’t think there is enough revenue delta to get pos revenue from Boston. Also I would argue that delta has a better product for the bos-gru flight. B6 mint 2.0 isn’t out yet, and their current mint product is noted as the better product by various metrics. Delta with its transatlantic sched still pales in comparison to what B6 will eventually turn bos into. They are just trying to hopefully get ahead to lessen the red. “Boston global airline “ coming from delta is to my opinion deltas usual PR bravado strategy, but lacking in reality. They say they are “ny #1 airline” what does that mean? Most asm’s out of ny? No that’s united out of ewr with a much more robust international global profile than deltas jfk. They are not #1 by being the most popular hometown ny airline cause that’s B6. Again, delta just talks a big game.

The talk on this forum about B6's still-to-be-commenced yet guaranteed TATL dominance out of BOS is really getting to be a bit much; the bolded comment is especially a doozy.

B6 may very well build a strong TATL presence out of BOS; they are the strongest carrier in the domestic market out of BOS, have strong brand loyalty/awareness in the market, have the infrastructure on the ground to grow, etc. But the forgone conclusion that this will translate into B6 becoming a TATL powerhouse out of BOS that will send DL packing is without merit. B6 has not flown a single TATL route. Anywhere. Ever. TATL service is arguably DL's biggest strength, they've been doing it for decades, and they clearly embrace strategies that have proven to work for them. DL is also an established player in the BOS TATL market, and they're growing. There is something to be said about being an early (or in this case, earlier) entrant - it is by no means a guarantee of success, but it is a consideration to take into account in any analysis.

B6 is not going to be able to immediately step in with 20 TATL flights a day to dozens of European airports to assert TATL dominance in BOS, making DL's TATL operations "pale in comparison". We don't even know what B6's concrete TATL plans for BOS are...so far to my knowledge the only cities that have been publicly discussed are London and Paris. Who knows, B6 may at some point down the road develop a very broad TATL network out of BOS. DL may eventually retreat. B6 may not ever get that big. Or they may co-exist with each carrier doing certain things better than the other. But saying that DL's TATL operation will definitively "pale in comparison" to whatever B6 ends up doing is making a series of assumptions based on decisions that have not even been made yet by either of the carriers in question and ignores the current situation, being DL's broad and growing TATL network out of BOS, and one for B6 that does not exist.
 
ASA
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:31 pm

HVNandrew wrote:
The talk on this forum about B6's still-to-be-commenced yet guaranteed TATL dominance out of BOS is really getting to be a bit much; the bolded comment is especially a doozy.

B6 may very well build a strong TATL presence out of BOS; they are the strongest carrier in the domestic market out of BOS, have strong brand loyalty/awareness in the market, have the infrastructure on the ground to grow, etc. But the forgone conclusion that this will translate into B6 becoming a TATL powerhouse out of BOS that will send DL packing is without merit. B6 has not flown a single TATL route. Anywhere. Ever. TATL service is arguably DL's biggest strength, they've been doing it for decades, and they clearly embrace strategies that have proven to work for them. DL is also an established player in the BOS TATL market, and they're growing. There is something to be said about being an early (or in this case, earlier) entrant - it is by no means a guarantee of success, but it is a consideration to take into account in any analysis.

B6 is not going to be able to immediately step in with 20 TATL flights a day to dozens of European airports to assert TATL dominance in BOS, making DL's TATL operations "pale in comparison". We don't even know what B6's concrete TATL plans for BOS are...so far to my knowledge the only cities that have been publicly discussed are London and Paris. Who knows, B6 may at some point down the road develop a very broad TATL network out of BOS. DL may eventually retreat. B6 may not ever get that big. Or they may co-exist with each carrier doing certain things better than the other. But saying that DL's TATL operation will definitively "pale in comparison" to whatever B6 ends up doing is making a series of assumptions based on decisions that have not even been made yet by either of the carriers in question and ignores the current situation, being DL's broad and growing TATL network out of BOS, and one for B6 that does not exist.


Although a die-hard B6 fan, a regular flier since 2005, I agree with your assessment. Can't wait for flying B6 to LON ... but we have to go with what we have now. DL has been building up a substantial TATL presence in BOS. As someone listed yesterday, DL + Partners will have a total of 11 + 7 = 18 TATL flights in Summer 2020. That is huge! Even a few weeks ago, sitting in my boy's baseball game on the North Shore, I watched 4 DL flights coming in from Europe ... that is impressive, I thought! It will take a while for B6 to match that. What would work to B6's advantage is the impressive connections they are offering to RDU, PIT, DTW, YYZ, YTZ, etc. I wish the best and welcome new flights from both of these airlines ... we customers win at the end! :bigthumbsup:
 
tphuang
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:31 pm

HVNandrew wrote:
Abeam79 wrote:
All good points, but LA controls the POS from bog and Brazil’s. I don’t think there is enough revenue delta to get pos revenue from Boston. Also I would argue that delta has a better product for the bos-gru flight. B6 mint 2.0 isn’t out yet, and their current mint product is noted as the better product by various metrics. Delta with its transatlantic sched still pales in comparison to what B6 will eventually turn bos into. They are just trying to hopefully get ahead to lessen the red. “Boston global airline “ coming from delta is to my opinion deltas usual PR bravado strategy, but lacking in reality. They say they are “ny #1 airline” what does that mean? Most asm’s out of ny? No that’s united out of ewr with a much more robust international global profile than deltas jfk. They are not #1 by being the most popular hometown ny airline cause that’s B6. Again, delta just talks a big game.

The talk on this forum about B6's still-to-be-commenced yet guaranteed TATL dominance out of BOS is really getting to be a bit much; the bolded comment is especially a doozy.

B6 may very well build a strong TATL presence out of BOS; they are the strongest carrier in the domestic market out of BOS, have strong brand loyalty/awareness in the market, have the infrastructure on the ground to grow, etc. But the forgone conclusion that this will translate into B6 becoming a TATL powerhouse out of BOS that will send DL packing is without merit. B6 has not flown a single TATL route. Anywhere. Ever. TATL service is arguably DL's biggest strength, they've been doing it for decades, and they clearly embrace strategies that have proven to work for them. DL is also an established player in the BOS TATL market, and they're growing. There is something to be said about being an early (or in this case, earlier) entrant - it is by no means a guarantee of success, but it is a consideration to take into account in any analysis.

B6 is not going to be able to immediately step in with 20 TATL flights a day to dozens of European airports to assert TATL dominance in BOS, making DL's TATL operations "pale in comparison". We don't even know what B6's concrete TATL plans for BOS are...so far to my knowledge the only cities that have been publicly discussed are London and Paris. Who knows, B6 may at some point down the road develop a very broad TATL network out of BOS. DL may eventually retreat. B6 may not ever get that big. Or they may co-exist with each carrier doing certain things better than the other. But saying that DL's TATL operation will definitively "pale in comparison" to whatever B6 ends up doing is making a series of assumptions based on decisions that have not even been made yet by either of the carriers in question and ignores the current situation, being DL's broad and growing TATL network out of BOS, and one for B6 that does not exist.


They actually only acknowledged London so far. No need to publicly pronounce more ahead of time.

B6 ordered 26 a321lr/xlr to be delivered in 2021 to 2024 frame and JFK is slot constrained. I think it's pretty easy to figure out from that how many flights they intend to have. Of course at this point, nobody know what will happen. And I see delta moves here trying to preempt b6 in a couple of markets. But I think it's fairly easy to see that long term, b6 will cause yield collapse in a lot of tatl markets out of Boston just as they have done in many domestic market. And we will see which airlines will be willing to play ball. The tatl fares at Boston is going to be the envy of pretty much anywhere in the country.
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:08 pm

tphuang wrote:
And we will see which airlines will be willing to play ball. The tatl fares at Boston is going to be the envy of pretty much anywhere in the country.


Our Caribbean fares though especially the non-stops.... and they say leisure travel is low yielding.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:52 pm

adamh8297 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
And we will see which airlines will be willing to play ball. The tatl fares at Boston is going to be the envy of pretty much anywhere in the country.


Our Caribbean fares though especially the non-stops.... and they say leisure travel is low yielding.


Yeah my $650 r/t to Aruba in April agreed with this. Not low yielding in my book.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
HVNandrew
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:52 pm

tphuang wrote:
HVNandrew wrote:
Abeam79 wrote:
All good points, but LA controls the POS from bog and Brazil’s. I don’t think there is enough revenue delta to get pos revenue from Boston. Also I would argue that delta has a better product for the bos-gru flight. B6 mint 2.0 isn’t out yet, and their current mint product is noted as the better product by various metrics. Delta with its transatlantic sched still pales in comparison to what B6 will eventually turn bos into. They are just trying to hopefully get ahead to lessen the red. “Boston global airline “ coming from delta is to my opinion deltas usual PR bravado strategy, but lacking in reality. They say they are “ny #1 airline” what does that mean? Most asm’s out of ny? No that’s united out of ewr with a much more robust international global profile than deltas jfk. They are not #1 by being the most popular hometown ny airline cause that’s B6. Again, delta just talks a big game.

The talk on this forum about B6's still-to-be-commenced yet guaranteed TATL dominance out of BOS is really getting to be a bit much; the bolded comment is especially a doozy.

B6 may very well build a strong TATL presence out of BOS; they are the strongest carrier in the domestic market out of BOS, have strong brand loyalty/awareness in the market, have the infrastructure on the ground to grow, etc. But the forgone conclusion that this will translate into B6 becoming a TATL powerhouse out of BOS that will send DL packing is without merit. B6 has not flown a single TATL route. Anywhere. Ever. TATL service is arguably DL's biggest strength, they've been doing it for decades, and they clearly embrace strategies that have proven to work for them. DL is also an established player in the BOS TATL market, and they're growing. There is something to be said about being an early (or in this case, earlier) entrant - it is by no means a guarantee of success, but it is a consideration to take into account in any analysis.

B6 is not going to be able to immediately step in with 20 TATL flights a day to dozens of European airports to assert TATL dominance in BOS, making DL's TATL operations "pale in comparison". We don't even know what B6's concrete TATL plans for BOS are...so far to my knowledge the only cities that have been publicly discussed are London and Paris. Who knows, B6 may at some point down the road develop a very broad TATL network out of BOS. DL may eventually retreat. B6 may not ever get that big. Or they may co-exist with each carrier doing certain things better than the other. But saying that DL's TATL operation will definitively "pale in comparison" to whatever B6 ends up doing is making a series of assumptions based on decisions that have not even been made yet by either of the carriers in question and ignores the current situation, being DL's broad and growing TATL network out of BOS, and one for B6 that does not exist.


They actually only acknowledged London so far. No need to publicly pronounce more ahead of time.

B6 ordered 26 a321lr/xlr to be delivered in 2021 to 2024 frame and JFK is slot constrained. I think it's pretty easy to figure out from that how many flights they intend to have. Of course at this point, nobody know what will happen. And I see delta moves here trying to preempt b6 in a couple of markets. But I think it's fairly easy to see that long term, b6 will cause yield collapse in a lot of tatl markets out of Boston just as they have done in many domestic market. And we will see which airlines will be willing to play ball. The tatl fares at Boston is going to be the envy of pretty much anywhere in the country.

I wouldn't be surprised if many (but not all) of those planes were flying out of BOS at some point. And yields in certain markets would be impacted by B6 entering TATL routes out of BOS. But neither of those points (individually or taken together) would support the definitive statement which I took issue with, being that: "Delta with its transatlantic sched still pales in comparison to what B6 will eventually turn bos into", because as you said, at this point nobody knows what will happen.
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:45 pm

VS4ever wrote:
adamh8297 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
And we will see which airlines will be willing to play ball. The tatl fares at Boston is going to be the envy of pretty much anywhere in the country.


Our Caribbean fares though especially the non-stops.... and they say leisure travel is low yielding.


Yeah my $650 r/t to Aruba in April agreed with this. Not low yielding in my book.


$650 may be the average fare and that's high volume market. Look at the non-stop UVF prices on B6. I could go to Europe TWICE for some of those fares.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
tphuang
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:47 pm

adamh8297 wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
adamh8297 wrote:

Our Caribbean fares though especially the non-stops.... and they say leisure travel is low yielding.


Yeah my $650 r/t to Aruba in April agreed with this. Not low yielding in my book.


$650 may be the average fare and that's high volume market. Look at the non-stop UVF prices on B6. I could go to Europe TWICE for some of those fares.

To be fair, Europe flight really isn't that much longer. On the other hand, business class fares out of Boston for tatl flights are ridiculous and that will drop significantly with b6.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Sep 28, 2019 12:54 am

Drove from Economy parking back home and noticed the "Big Terminal-E Dig" is in full swing. It gave me a clear view of all the big birds either lined-up or parked nearby: BA, EK, QR, etc.

tphuang wrote:
adamh8297 wrote:
VS4ever wrote:

Yeah my $650 r/t to Aruba in April agreed with this. Not low yielding in my book.


$650 may be the average fare and that's high volume market. Look at the non-stop UVF prices on B6. I could go to Europe TWICE for some of those fares.

To be fair, Europe flight really isn't that much longer. On the other hand, business class fares out of Boston for tatl flights are ridiculous and that will drop significantly with b6.


I suppose it depends how far in advance you buy.
I recently booked a J trip on Delta to Italy and Holland over Easter for $1260 all in.
 
FGITD
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:53 am

I don't think the story of BOS-CDG next summer is quite over yet.

A lot of interesting things being floated.
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:01 pm

FGITD wrote:
I don't think the story of BOS-CDG next summer is quite over yet.

A lot of interesting things being floated.


A380???
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:02 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Drove from Economy parking back home and noticed the "Big Terminal-E Dig" is in full swing. It gave me a clear view of all the big birds either lined-up or parked nearby: BA, EK, QR, etc.

I know right? When i picked up my wife the other night I waited at the little pullout right in front of the open area just short of the cell phone lot. Great view :)

Dieuwer wrote:
I suppose it depends how far in advance you buy.
I recently booked a J trip on Delta to Italy and Holland over Easter for $1260 all in.

I agree entirely. Advanced J fares can be pretty cheap. Not as cheap as JFK but still cheap. I flew to India with BA for less than $3k and just yesterday was shopping around for a trip to SIN next Summer and found an AS/SQ fare in J for only $2800. I know these are not TATL itineraries but I've seen TP fares in the low $2000's for TATL from BOS.
I don't buy this theory that B6 fares will be cheap. I don't see B6 going into this expensive TATL venture and then leave money on the table. they will charge what the market bares which is essentially what everyone else is doing. To extrapolate what happened domestically and expect the same in the TATL market doesn't make sense when the TATL has so much more competition already. We have 10(?) airlines currently serving the TATL market from BOS, not including TK. That is twice as many airlines than the number serving the TCON market from BOS, and TCON is a much larger market.
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Sep 28, 2019 4:54 pm

airbazar wrote:

Dieuwer wrote:
I suppose it depends how far in advance you buy.
I recently booked a J trip on Delta to Italy and Holland over Easter for $1260 all in.

I agree entirely. Advanced J fares can be pretty cheap. Not as cheap as JFK but still cheap. I flew to India with BA for less than $3k and just yesterday was shopping around for a trip to SIN next Summer and found an AS/SQ fare in J for only $2800. I know these are not TATL itineraries but I've seen TP fares in the low $2000's for TATL from BOS.
I don't buy this theory that B6 fares will be cheap. I don't see B6 going into this expensive TATL venture and then leave money on the table. they will charge what the market bares which is essentially what everyone else is doing. To extrapolate what happened domestically and expect the same in the TATL market doesn't make sense when the TATL has so much more competition already. We have 10(?) airlines currently serving the TATL market from BOS, not including TK. That is twice as many airlines than the number serving the TCON market from BOS, and TCON is a much larger market.


Using google flights I found BOS-YUL-PVG-TPE-YVR-SFO-BOS for $2500 in January and UA gives you 250 credit if you get the credit card during booking. Tempting to use TPE as a jump off to get to MNL/CEB/DGT for a scuba trip.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
NWADC10BOS
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:23 pm

airbazar wrote:
I don't buy this theory that B6 fares will be cheap. I don't see B6 going into this expensive TATL venture and then leave money on the table. they will charge what the market bares which is essentially what everyone else is doing. To extrapolate what happened domestically and expect the same in the TATL market doesn't make sense when the TATL has so much more competition already.


Perhaps "cheaper" as opposed to "cheap" ... B6 is a triple-pronged threat to BOS-LON transatlantic incumbents (BA/DL/VS) that they haven't dealt with recently. The usual incumbent competitive technique has been to dump enough cheap Y capacity into the market to make life painful for any LCC competitor, and subsidize that cheap Y capacity with front-cabin revenues, primarily J. DI will likely be on the receiving end of that tactic over the coming winter season, as Norwegian's financial stresses will not go unnoticed by competitors.

In contrast, beyond lower operating costs, B6 brings two additional prongs of threat, first, a competitive J product, and second, a BOS-based network sufficient to compete for corporate contracts, a significant source of J revenue (in contrast, DI has neither). Mint has been a competitive domestic front-cabin product, and B6 will almost certainly do their homework to roll out a TATL version of Mint that is on-board competitive with BA/DL/VS. Airport lounges will still be a differentiator, particularly in BOS, and B6 really does need to get into LHR, as that's the preferred business airport for London. Assuming that B6 does get into LHR, it will be "Game On!" as B6 will almost certainly be able to knock some of the stuffing out of BOS-LHR J fares, making it much more painful for the incumbents to dump cheap Y capacity into the market.
 
tphuang
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Sep 28, 2019 9:20 pm

airbazar wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Drove from Economy parking back home and noticed the "Big Terminal-E Dig" is in full swing. It gave me a clear view of all the big birds either lined-up or parked nearby: BA, EK, QR, etc.

I know right? When i picked up my wife the other night I waited at the little pullout right in front of the open area just short of the cell phone lot. Great view :)

Dieuwer wrote:
I suppose it depends how far in advance you buy.
I recently booked a J trip on Delta to Italy and Holland over Easter for $1260 all in.

I agree entirely. Advanced J fares can be pretty cheap. Not as cheap as JFK but still cheap. I flew to India with BA for less than $3k and just yesterday was shopping around for a trip to SIN next Summer and found an AS/SQ fare in J for only $2800. I know these are not TATL itineraries but I've seen TP fares in the low $2000's for TATL from BOS.
I don't buy this theory that B6 fares will be cheap. I don't see B6 going into this expensive TATL venture and then leave money on the table. they will charge what the market bares which is essentially what everyone else is doing. To extrapolate what happened domestically and expect the same in the TATL market doesn't make sense when the TATL has so much more competition already. We have 10(?) airlines currently serving the TATL market from BOS, not including TK. That is twice as many airlines than the number serving the TCON market from BOS, and TCON is a much larger market.

Keep in east coast TPAC flights are significantly better deals than TATL. I would say TPAC J fares in general quite cheap thanks in large part of the Chinese competition.

I agree connection J fares on TP and EI to continental Europe are reasonable, but those are not direct flights. I'm talking about direct flights to London, Paris and Dublin. Those fares are really out of whack. I guess DL TATL JV offered some really outstanding fares as DL is building up its TATL operation in BOS, but that's not going to last beyond this initial buildup stage. There is no way legacy airlines can sustain that.

Yes, BOS TCON market has fewer airlines, but the lie flat J fares are really cheap. There are routinely sub $500 J fares on BOS TCON because of B6. You don't need 10 airlines, when B6 alone has crashed the entire US TCON market. Can you think of any other cities getting this much lie flat service to other coast at such low fares? No other cities come close.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Sep 28, 2019 9:33 pm

first window into future ops for DL, here's a snapshot for this evening.

from the massport list for TATL
AMS 1- A14
AMS 2 - A19
CDG - A16
DUB - A16
LHR - A14


Others from A18-A22 (sample on current departure board from 4-6pm)
ATL x 2 - A18
MSP - A21
LGA - A22
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:41 am

NWADC10BOS wrote:
Perhaps "cheaper" as opposed to "cheap" ... B6 is a triple-pronged threat to BOS-LON transatlantic incumbents (BA/DL/VS) that they haven't dealt with recently. The usual incumbent competitive technique has been to dump enough cheap Y capacity into the market to make life painful for any LCC competitor, and subsidize that cheap Y capacity with front-cabin revenues, primarily J.

You're right in that the premium seats subsidize the cheap Y seats. But the reason you have so many cheap Y seats to LON especially is not because the incumbent carriers are trying to make life painful for LCC's. These fares were cheap long before there were LCC's flying TATL. In fact before the invention of the "surcharges" it was even cheaper. The reason they are cheap is because these airlines are catering to the huge volume of premium passengers and the frequencies they demand. So they are flying huge planes where they can easily fill 50-80 premium seats in February but they could never fill all Y seats if the fares were not cheap. This effect is exacerbated on the JFK-LHR route.
Everything you guys say about B6 could very well be true. I just don't buy that if passengers are willing to pay $5,000 for a J class ticket to LHR that all of sudden B6 would lower theirs to $3,000 or whatever. It makes no sense. B6 has their own hometown customer base who will gladly fly with them for the same money they are now paying BA/VS/DL. With such a small airplane and few frequencies B6 will have no trouble filling the front of the plane at similar fares, and that is exactly why they want in on this market. Their yields and profits wil lbe enormous if they keep the fares high.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:54 am

Miles are usually the best way to fly J BOS-LHR. Apparently, airlines rather make award seats available than lowering ticket prices.
 
ChrisNH38
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 29, 2019 3:18 pm

While waiting to board JL 7 on Friday at E10, I surveyed the rather congested landscape ‘back there’ and wondered how things would look two to three years down the road. Where would UPS go? Also, I watched as the BA A380 deftly maneuvered itself between our 789 and all those biz jets. What a tight squeeze. But I was looking particularly at the hangars. The biggest of them for DL makes sense, despite it being almost in another time zone from their terminal. The B6 one can’t be done away with because they need it. But then I looked at the AA hangar and wondered, “If they just whacked that...” The EK bus is shoved right up against it during the day and could probably benefit from more room. All those pushed -aside international planes could benefit if the AA hangar weren’t there.

As we taxied out to 4R I also saw a DL A330 (which probably got towed there a bit earlier) sandwiched between two FedEx jets. That’s testimony as to how busy things are with DL.
https://my.flightradar24.com/ChrisNH
 
FGITD
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 29, 2019 4:39 pm

The AA hangar actually gets pretty good use. Harder to tell because they like to keep the doors closed. Maybe not the same as Jetblue's, but I think it would cost massport a pretty penny to knock it done.

At this point it's really no longer where would UPS go, it's where is UPS going?

To that I have no definite answer. I have heard that DHL is going to move over towards the massport fire station, maybe even Delta cargo at the end of FedEx. And if that's the case, maybe UPS could shift over to where DHL is now.

I've got no idea how they're going to manage cargo. I still think the best option is eventually going to be to push south cargo back to the harbor
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:02 pm

Just arrived on DL257 from AMS, love love love the mobile passport, wasn’t busy down there, but an absolute breeze to deal with.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
NWADC10BOS
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:44 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:50 pm

VS4ever wrote:
Just arrived on DL257 from AMS, love love love the mobile passport, wasn’t busy down there, but an absolute breeze to deal with.


Any sense of how time to clear immigration would have compared with Global Entry?
 
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VS4ever
Posts: 2234
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:54 pm

NWADC10BOS wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
Just arrived on DL257 from AMS, love love love the mobile passport, wasn’t busy down there, but an absolute breeze to deal with.


Any sense of how time to clear immigration would have compared with Global Entry?


Honestly it was dead quiet, so it was almost identical (person who walked in with us, walked out at the same time), interestingly global entry have to walk the furthest round. But on a busier day I bet GE would be slightly faster to be fair, but either way, much better than the regular line
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 1532
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:09 pm

Wait times at immigration mean nothing if you have checked a bag. I always seem to wait longer at the carousel than standing in line before the kiosks. And that includes traveling with a priority bag tag.
 
FGITD
Posts: 475
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:44 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:27 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Wait times at immigration mean nothing if you have checked a bag. I always seem to wait longer at the carousel than standing in line before the kiosks. And that includes traveling with a priority bag tag.


Oops!

Actually though, the entire bag system for inbounds is a bit of a mess due to space constraints at E. Happens very often that a ramp team is told to dump bags on belt 3, only to get there and find another ramp team dumping a different flight onto that belt. And the solution?

"Wait-currently no other belt available"

Also having a priority tag, or one of those FF luggage tags means nothing. For one thing, the guys dumping bags don't work for the airlines, therefore don't really care. And also priority bags usually get scanned (Hence the uselessness of a visual tag) into the same container. ~40 bags per container, and it can take a few minutes for yours to get there. And that's assuming that container was the first one off, first one on the string of containers, etc.

Oh and also the belt system repeatedly jams and breaks.
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 1532
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:32 pm

FGITD wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Wait times at immigration mean nothing if you have checked a bag. I always seem to wait longer at the carousel than standing in line before the kiosks. And that includes traveling with a priority bag tag.


Oops!

Actually though, the entire bag system for inbounds is a bit of a mess due to space constraints at E. Happens very often that a ramp team is told to dump bags on belt 3, only to get there and find another ramp team dumping a different flight onto that belt. And the solution?

"Wait-currently no other belt available"

Also having a priority tag, or one of those FF luggage tags means nothing. For one thing, the guys dumping bags don't work for the airlines, therefore don't really care. And also priority bags usually get scanned (Hence the uselessness of a visual tag) into the same container. ~40 bags per container, and it can take a few minutes for yours to get there. And that's assuming that container was the first one off, first one on the string of containers, etc.

Oh and also the belt system repeatedly jams and breaks.


There are plenty of belts available at customs. The matter of fact is that about a third of them are never running.
 
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VS4ever
Posts: 2234
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:38 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
FGITD wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Wait times at immigration mean nothing if you have checked a bag. I always seem to wait longer at the carousel than standing in line before the kiosks. And that includes traveling with a priority bag tag.


Oops!

Actually though, the entire bag system for inbounds is a bit of a mess due to space constraints at E. Happens very often that a ramp team is told to dump bags on belt 3, only to get there and find another ramp team dumping a different flight onto that belt. And the solution?

"Wait-currently no other belt available"

Also having a priority tag, or one of those FF luggage tags means nothing. For one thing, the guys dumping bags don't work for the airlines, therefore don't really care. And also priority bags usually get scanned (Hence the uselessness of a visual tag) into the same container. ~40 bags per container, and it can take a few minutes for yours to get there. And that's assuming that container was the first one off, first one on the string of containers, etc.

Oh and also the belt system repeatedly jams and breaks.


There are plenty of belts available at customs. The matter of fact is that about a third of them are never running.


Bags for us came out in about 20 minutes and they came out together (rarely happens) on Belt 2.
A little alarming to me was an unattended bag (albeit with a label on it) from the ZRH flight, that when I called it out to a CBP guy, he could not have cared less about it.

All in all, from pulling into the gate to getting into a Lyft for the way home was less than an hour. Not complaining at that at all.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 1532
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:42 pm

VS4ever wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
FGITD wrote:

Oops!

Actually though, the entire bag system for inbounds is a bit of a mess due to space constraints at E. Happens very often that a ramp team is told to dump bags on belt 3, only to get there and find another ramp team dumping a different flight onto that belt. And the solution?

"Wait-currently no other belt available"

Also having a priority tag, or one of those FF luggage tags means nothing. For one thing, the guys dumping bags don't work for the airlines, therefore don't really care. And also priority bags usually get scanned (Hence the uselessness of a visual tag) into the same container. ~40 bags per container, and it can take a few minutes for yours to get there. And that's assuming that container was the first one off, first one on the string of containers, etc.

Oh and also the belt system repeatedly jams and breaks.


There are plenty of belts available at customs. The matter of fact is that about a third of them are never running.


Bags for us came out in about 20 minutes and they came out together (rarely happens) on Belt 2.
A little alarming to me was an unattended bag (albeit with a label on it) from the ZRH flight, that when I called it out to a CBP guy, he could not have cared less about it.

All in all, from pulling into the gate to getting into a Lyft for the way home was less than an hour. Not complaining at that at all.


Just wait when Delta has added all their new international flights. The clog at arrivals will be even more horrendous.
 
User avatar
VS4ever
Posts: 2234
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:49 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:

There are plenty of belts available at customs. The matter of fact is that about a third of them are never running.


Bags for us came out in about 20 minutes and they came out together (rarely happens) on Belt 2.
A little alarming to me was an unattended bag (albeit with a label on it) from the ZRH flight, that when I called it out to a CBP guy, he could not have cared less about it.

All in all, from pulling into the gate to getting into a Lyft for the way home was less than an hour. Not complaining at that at all.


Just wait when Delta has added all their new international flights. The clog at arrivals will be even more horrendous.


Then clearly you didn’t read my post above with the timings for summer 20, DL won’t be the problem at the 5-7 time slot, their issue will be the 12-2 slots.. 9 of the 11 are scheduled to arrive at 14.15 or before.

DL59 LHR0940 - 1210BOS 767 D
DL405 CDG1020 - 1222BOS 767 D
DL155 DUB1035 - 1240BOS 767 D
DL123 EDI1040 - 1301BOS 757 D
DL125 LIS1025 - 1315BOS 757 D
DL259 AMS1120 - 1315BOS 330 D
DL113 LGW1030 - 1320BOS 757 D
DL115 MAN1130 - 1400BOS 757 D
DL21 FCO1045 - 1415BOS 330 D
DL257 AMS1440 - 1650BOS 767 D
DL227 CDG1540 - 1730BOS 767 D
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.

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