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NickolayAv
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:28 pm

FGITD wrote:
NickolayAv wrote:
Interesting read. With groundbreaking on Terminal E only one month away, does anyone know if there is a specific date set and if there will be some sort of ceremony?


A moment of silence and a wreath laying at the gas station, as every terminal E employee, trooper, and livery driver loses their preferred lunch site.

Then we're all going out to north cargo to stack equipment because there's nowhere to store anything for the next few years.

Seriously though, most likely nothing much. Perhaps some state and massport officials will do a brief fury shovel ceremony at most. Really looking forward to the expansion though. Got to see a 3d render awhile back, very nice looking terminal

Do you by any chance know a specific date?
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airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:58 pm

VS4ever wrote:
I just noticed that Massport uploaded the powerpoint deck from November’s meeting

The one thing that stands out to me is that Massport, and Boston in general still have no clue how they are going to address the explosion of ride share use. The congestion that we are seeing now around Logan airport will be all of Boston in a not too distant future, and all of it is the result of a total lack of investment and development of public transportation in the region.
Let me give an example: I moved to Boston from Lisbon in 1990. In 1990 the Lisbon subway system had 24 stations and it looked like this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisbon_Me ... t_1988.PNG
Today it has 55 stations and in 2022 it will look like this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisbon_Me ... o_2022.png
How many subway extensions has the MBTA built in the same time frame? Heck, Los Angeles which is not known for its public transportation has built an entire metro rail system in the same time frame.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:07 am

airbazar wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
I just noticed that Massport uploaded the powerpoint deck from November’s meeting

The one thing that stands out to me is that Massport, and Boston in general still have no clue how they are going to address the explosion of ride share use. The congestion that we are seeing now around Logan airport will be all of Boston in a not too distant future, and all of it is the result of a total lack of investment and development of public transportation in the region.
Let me give an example: I moved to Boston from Lisbon in 1990. In 1990 the Lisbon subway system had 24 stations and it looked like this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisbon_Me ... t_1988.PNG
Today it has 55 stations and in 2022 it will look like this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisbon_Me ... o_2022.png
How many subway extensions has the MBTA built in the same time frame? Heck, Los Angeles which is not known for its public transportation has built an entire metro rail system in the same time frame.


You should join a transit advocacy group http://transitmatters.org they've been doing a great job pressuring the mbta and associated government entities to get their act together.

When I go to boston, I only use public transportation except for the few situations where that's not a viable option. I refuse to contribute to the problem when I visit (I take the Bus to south station for a starting point)
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:08 am

Jouhou wrote:
airbazar wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
I just noticed that Massport uploaded the powerpoint deck from November’s meeting

The one thing that stands out to me is that Massport, and Boston in general still have no clue how they are going to address the explosion of ride share use. The congestion that we are seeing now around Logan airport will be all of Boston in a not too distant future, and all of it is the result of a total lack of investment and development of public transportation in the region.
Let me give an example: I moved to Boston from Lisbon in 1990. In 1990 the Lisbon subway system had 24 stations and it looked like this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisbon_Me ... t_1988.PNG
Today it has 55 stations and in 2022 it will look like this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisbon_Me ... o_2022.png
How many subway extensions has the MBTA built in the same time frame? Heck, Los Angeles which is not known for its public transportation has built an entire metro rail system in the same time frame.


You should join a transit advocacy group http://transitmatters.org they've been doing a great job pressuring the mbta and associated government entities to get their act together.

When I go to boston, I only use public transportation except for the few situations where that's not a viable option. I refuse to contribute to the problem when I visit (I take the Bus to south station for a starting point)


And herein lies the challenge. It's a convenience vs price challenge.

1. Central Parking - Convenient at both ends (you can go when you want), but stupidly expensive.
2. Economy Parking - Convenient at home, less so at the other end (bus to terminal) - still relatively stupidly expensive
3. Off Site Parking - Convenient at home, at the mercy of the parking companies at the other end - cheaper, but comes with a bit of pain.
4. Taxi - Convenient at both ends - cheaper than parking, but the further out you go, the less of a differentiator this is.
5. Uber/Lyft - Convenient at both ends - cheaper than parking and Taxi - popular with the current generation
6. Logan Express/Bus Service - Not really convenient, but popular from the places that have it, at the mercy of traffic and timings. But if you plan well relatively cheap. (some Logan Express now owned by Massport)
7. Blue Line - Great if you live in Lynn and points south, but LT parking at Wonderland not great, at mercy of timings of Blue line, you also currently have to take the Bus to get to Airport station, cheap as all hell if you can find somewhere to park for free or live around there.
8. Silver Line - Again cheap as all hell if you can get to South Station and live along the appropriate lines. Nice try also if your flight is not too early in the morning, if you take the commuter rail to Chelsea, not the worst idea, but Commuter Rail is relatively expensive compared to other options.
9. Commuter Rail/Other Lines - North Station sucks for connections to Logan, basically if you come in from say Lowell, you have to drive to the station, park (or pay for a lyft etc. ) get on the train, get to NS, swap to Orange/Green, then Blue out to the airport, then bus to the terminal.
10. Hope to god you have a nice friend/spouse who can drop you off...
11. Regular Bus, again great on your route, but not good if you aren't or you get delayed until 2am.
12. Rideshare system with other folks, not sure this happens in reality, in CA it does, here not so much.

What I am basically saying is this, most (not all) value convenience/price factor when it comes to flying out of Logan. Me for example, most of my flights are early in the morning, I live out on the North Shore, commuter rail doesn't work and is unwieldly even if i could get there early enough. Blue line doesn't really work, Silver line doesn't work, Taxi is too expensive. Mrs VS is not a fan of getting me to the airport at 5am and we have 1 car. so my choice is.... yep you guessed it I take Lyft to the airport, cheapest most convenient option. I can book a week in advance and they don't care what time i want them to get me there, assuming they accept my ride. Same for the way back, get out of the terminal, ping on the app, get a driver in 5 minutes and off on my way home.

It's a complex infrastructure problem caused by the location of BOS in East Boston as it's not easy to get to by anything but a car type scenario (unless you live in specific areas that have great public transit links), so it's not going to be an easy answer, what there is a fight between Massport managing 1970's infrastructure with an almost 2020 problem that was never even dreamed of occuring even in the last 10 years. They basically can't win. They are trying to present themselves as a green airport with ways to keep carbon usage down, and i absolutely applaud them for that, but they are up against a flying public that have voted with their wallets by saying primarily Uber/Lyft is the way they want to get to the airport. But... they don't have the infrastructure to support the volume. So what do you do?

1. Tax the crap out of Uber/Lyft drives to and from the airport (note the slide that shows the difference between Massport and some of the other places that are over 3x the price. Given the investment coming up, you know they are looking at this as a revenue stream to be built on. Also makes the costs closer to Taxi's...
2. Build a purposely designed section for Uber/Lyft and allows for better flow of cars for this service, they have looked at this and are doing something to this effect because of the build of the new parking lot by Terminal E, oh and increase the fees (see the common thread here)
3. Ban Uber/Lyft - not going to happen, too much $$$ at stake.
4. Develop a 20 year plan to figure out how to re-purposes public transit to make it work for an airport that unless their own infrastructure is sorted out, is going to get tapped out of space in about 15 years, technology improvements and larger aircraft will only get you so far unfortunately.

I honestly don't know what the right answer is, they clearly need to get the number of cars visiting down, but there's no simple way to do this sadly
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FromCDGtoSYD
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:48 am

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-16mar19/

Seems like KE is already adding frequencies during the Winter season. This bodes well for BOS !
 
aaflyer777
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:00 am

They really need to build that connector between the Blue Line station and the terminal. I don't mind taking the commuter rail and subway to the airport but the fact that those shuttle busses take 20-30 minutes to get me to the terminal drives me nuts.
 
dtremit
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:12 am

airbazar wrote:
The one thing that stands out to me is that Massport, and Boston in general still have no clue how they are going to address the explosion of ride share use. The congestion that we are seeing now around Logan airport will be all of Boston in a not too distant future, and all of it is the result of a total lack of investment and development of public transportation in the region.


While I'm generally critical of the MBTA's lack of investment, I'm not convinced that it explains the problem here. One of the interesting statistics in that slide deck is on HOV market share -- and Boston's is nearly tied with San Francisco for the *highest* HOV usage of any US airport. (Based on some other statistics I found from 2008, that does appear to include rail and bus, though it's not defined in that slide deck.)

Obviously the MBTA needs to improve -- but at the same time, I don't see any forecast improvements in Boston's transit infrastructure making a meaningful difference for Logan anytime soon. Nothing planned or proposed in the next several decades will change the inconvenience of Logan for most transit users. I live two blocks from a GLX station set to open in 2021, and I can't see myself taking the T to Logan even after it opens; I'd be stuck with two miserable transfers under the best circumstances.

Look at cities around the world, and I think you'll find that even people that frequently take transit are willing to pay a premium for a private ride when they're just off a long flight and hauling luggage. In cities like London or Tokyo, that preference is undermined by (a) the exorbitant cost of getting from Heathrow or Narita to the center of the city, and (b) the huge time savings of transit as compared with sitting in traffic. And even in those markets, investment in premium, express trains has been profitable.

The MBTA has neither of those advantages: Logan will always be a short drive from many points in Boston, and traffic once you leave Logan is typically not bad enough to make a transit trip faster.

Logan needs to completely rethink how it handles TNC rides. The central garage solution -- while less convenient than I'd like -- is promising, but they also need to rethink the "holding pen" that forces drivers to make multiple loops around the property and dramatically increases wait times. Ideally, a TNC car should be able to drop off a departing passenger and pick up an arriving passenger from the same terminal without moving; that would have the least impact on roadways. The apps can handle this today -- I've seen it happen. The barrier is Massport's insistence that drivers leave the terminal and drive to the TNC lot before being assigned another ride.

Another creative solution would be to leverage the Silver Line. If Massport raises fees on app pickups/dropoffs, it could be offset by a TNC queue at World Trade Center or another Silver Line station. Taking a Lyft or Uber from the Seaport would be exempt from the fees, and would keep cars out of the tunnel.

Ultimately, I think the biggest barrier is going to be Massport's belief that pickups and dropoffs (whether by car share or private car) are inherently a problem that needs to be solved. To see evidence of that attitude, one needs only look at the proposal floated to charge an unprecedented fee (in addition to the existing tunnel tolls) for private cars to drop off passengers at Logan. It results in things like the awful C/E TNC lot, which has inherent traffic bottlenecks at entrance and exit, and is undersized and completely exposed to the elements, making app rides rather miserable.
 
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dvincent
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:18 am

9. Commuter Rail/Other Lines - North Station sucks for connections to Logan, basically if you come in from say Lowell, you have to drive to the station, park (or pay for a lyft etc. ) get on the train, get to NS, swap to Orange/Green, then Blue out to the airport, then bus to the terminal.


Woburn Logan Express is the only choice that makes any sense for Merrimack residents (Lowell and surrounding). With bags it's impossible to make that many connections. I've had many a trip on the early AM Woburn express buses. Logan Express for the north shore (Peabody) requires backtracking for many communities and it would make sense if they could find a way to make a short-turn logan express in some place like Lynn or Saugus for the north shore like they did for Back Bay.

A one-way taxi ride to places around 128 from Logan is usually 60 bucks (or more). The prices on the off-airport parking places have crept up so much that they aren't much cheaper than the airport economy garage.

A big problem for Uber/Lyft is that they add congestion to the tunnels. I don't see how they realistically solve that problem. You can get those cars off the terminal roadways (force people to use shuttlebus or the eventual people mover to a central location) but they still got to get through the tunnels.
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airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:51 pm

dvincent wrote:
9. Commuter Rail/Other Lines - North Station sucks for connections to Logan, basically if you come in from say Lowell, you have to drive to the station, park (or pay for a lyft etc. ) get on the train, get to NS, swap to Orange/Green, then Blue out to the airport, then bus to the terminal.


Woburn Logan Express is the only choice that makes any sense for Merrimack residents (Lowell and surrounding).

I'm a Merrimack Valley resident living just steps from the commuter rail and I've never once taken the commuter rail to the airport. Woburn Express is my preferred option for long trips but I've also used Preflight in Chelsea, Lyft, or wife's drop-off/pick-up, all depending on the circumstances.
A month ago we went to Europe for Feb vacation with ski gear so we used Woburn express. It only runs hourly on weekends so that's not an option when we travel on weekends. For shorter trips we usually drive and park at Preflight. If my company is paying for it, it's a Lyft ride. If i'm traveling alone some times I ask my wife to drive me.
I disagree that the use of Uber/Lyft is a fab of the new generation. I know grown adults who take Uber to/from work every day in Boston instead of taking the T. The new generation has no choice because our subway system is so utterly inadequate for moving around the city. It was designed for one thing and one thing only: To bring people from the suburbs to the city center and back out again and it does that poorly at best. For example, there are no express trains so at rush hour, half way thru the journey all the cars are completely full.
Our system is not designed for city people to use it, which is the most ridiculous thing when you think about it. If you want to go from Brookline to Cambridge it's an hour detour through Park Street. From Malden to the airport you have no choice but to go into the center of the city. That's why it takes so darn long to get to and from the airport and anywhere in the city, and why people take Uber/Lyft. The T needs a ring line. The Newburryport commuter line should have a transfer to the Blue Line at Wonderland or extend the Blue Line to Lynn. The Silver Line should have been a real subway line continuing past Chelsea towards Malden, Somerville and Cambridge. All of these should have happened a decade or two ago.

Instead we're figuring out how to accommodate more cars and how to make it easier for people to drive to the airport.
I'm all in favor of making it very expensive to drive to the airport but only after we give people a viable alternative. I lived in Singapore before, during and after they built their mass transit system. Today it costs ~$100k to buy a license that gives you the privilege to buy a car. This license needs to be renewed every 10 years if you want to keep the car. And then it costs another ~$100K to buy the car itself. in other words, they don't want anyone owning a car but they can do that because before doing this they built the best public transportation system that there is in the world. I'm not suggesting we should do the same LOL.I new ring line would be a huge improvement at this point so that when people want to go to the airport they don't have to go into downtown crossing or government center at rush hour.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:56 pm

There would be no problem today had the Blue Line station be built right under central parking.
 
jworks158
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:42 pm

VS4ever wrote:
So... 3 of the 6 you are missing are C40-C42, which they will get when SY/AS vacate supposedly in June, clear up the signage and be ready to go in September for when the new flights start.



I am not convinced they get access to C40-C42 once AS/SY move. Why? Because of the plans to re-construct that whole area. That being said I don't recall the timeline for that project.
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Jouhou
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:49 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
There would be no problem today had the Blue Line station be built right under central parking.


Was that ever even a remote possibility? I thought the blue line was the oldest subway line in Boston and just is what it is.
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dvincent
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:42 pm

airbazar wrote:
I'm a Merrimack Valley resident living just steps from the commuter rail and I've never once taken the commuter rail to the airport. Woburn Express is my preferred option for long trips but I've also used Preflight in Chelsea, Lyft, or wife's drop-off/pick-up, all depending on the circumstances.
A month ago we went to Europe for Feb vacation with ski gear so we used Woburn express. It only runs hourly on weekends so that's not an option when we travel on weekends. For shorter trips we usually drive and park at Preflight. If my company is paying for it, it's a Lyft ride. If i'm traveling alone some times I ask my wife to drive me.


I also live near the commuter rail in Merrimack region and I agree with you wholeheartedly that it will never be an option for me when flying. I don't know anyone in the Route 3 or I-93 corridors who uses MBTA in some form to go to the airport. It's either Logan express, the specialty buses, or driving. As a single person I don't have the option of someone picking me up / dropping me off, so it's either Logan Express or preflight parking. Preflight Parking has gotten so expensive that even if you prepay it's almost twice as much as a logan express trip. I used to get so many bonus loyalty points from them. Now, not so much...

Even when I lived in Waltham I couldn't do commuter rail to the airport because I tend to fly early in the AM and there's just no way to get to the airport on pubtrans before a 7 AM flight. Logan Express wasn't really an option (have to backtrack to Framingham or drive up to Woburn) but that was back when Preflight Parking was $12 a day. Now, they're up to $20 a day on short stays (four days or less). I leave on Thursday afternoon and don't get back until late Sunday night (or sometimes after midnight on Monday morning) and that's $80 right there. Logan express with a ten-ride $15 plus four days parking is $43 total. Don't forget to tip the Preflight drivers too... Given these parking costs I totally get why people go with lyft etc.

When I'm traveling to do my shows I'm almost always using Lyft to get to/from my destination airport (except in the rare cases when I rent a car for other reasons). If I could use Lyft to go to Logan without spending an arm and a leg (relatively speaking) I'd use it too.

Jouhou wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
There would be no problem today had the Blue Line station be built right under central parking.


Was that ever even a remote possibility? I thought the blue line was the oldest subway line in Boston and just is what it is.


The green line is the oldest subway, but the blue line is pretty close. The proposed terminal people mover is the solution for connecting Blue Line Airport Station... eventually. The blue line needs to be extended to Lynn and connected to MGH beyond Bowdoin yesterday.
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:06 pm

jworks158 wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
So... 3 of the 6 you are missing are C40-C42, which they will get when SY/AS vacate supposedly in June, clear up the signage and be ready to go in September for when the new flights start.



I am not convinced they get access to C40-C42 once AS/SY move. Why? Because of the plans to re-construct that whole area. That being said I don't recall the timeline for that project.


Maybe true and I did forget about that , but remember the build up to 200 per day is by around 2021, which is when B-C is slated to be finished anyway and maybe they can use it temporarily until Massport is ready to break ground on that project.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:07 pm

dvincent wrote:
I also live near the commuter rail in Merrimack region and I agree with you wholeheartedly that it will never be an option for me when flying. I don't know anyone in the Route 3 or I-93 corridors who uses MBTA in some form to go to the airport. It's either Logan express, the specialty buses, or driving. As a single person I don't have the option of someone picking me up / dropping me off, so it's either Logan Express or preflight parking. Preflight Parking has gotten so expensive that even if you prepay it's almost twice as much as a logan express trip. I used to get so many bonus loyalty points from them. Now, not so much....

Way back in the day when I lived in Wakefield I used to take the commuter rail to N.station then either taxi or subway to the airport but that's because I had a pass so it cost me nothing :) I would love to be able to do that today but the commuter rail from this far out is painfully slow and expensive. Over 1 hour to travel only 35 miles is absurd.
Yes Preflight has gotten expensive too but that's them just adjusting to everything else that's going on. There are 2 of us so we need 2 tickets for the Woburn Express bringing the total a little closer to what Preflight charges. For trips of less than 7 days the difference is meaningless so I drive to the airport. Anything longer it starts to add-up so I use Woburn Express. But for a group of 3 or 4 than pre-flight is always going to be cheaper.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:36 pm

dvincent wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
There would be no problem today had the Blue Line station be built right under central parking.


Was that ever even a remote possibility? I thought the blue line was the oldest subway line in Boston and just is what it is.


The green line is the oldest subway, but the blue line is pretty close. The proposed terminal people mover is the solution for connecting Blue Line Airport Station... eventually. The blue line needs to be extended to Lynn and connected to MGH beyond Bowdoin yesterday.


Why not just dig a passenger tunnel from the Blue Line Station to the basement of Central Parking? You can fit the tunnel with moving walkways if preferred. Similar to the Terminal A connector.
 
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dvincent
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:08 pm

airbazar wrote:
Way back in the day when I lived in Wakefield I used to take the commuter rail to N.station then either taxi or subway to the airport but that's because I had a pass so it cost me nothing :) I would love to be able to do that today but the commuter rail from this far out is painfully slow and expensive. Over 1 hour to travel only 35 miles is absurd.
Yes Preflight has gotten expensive too but that's them just adjusting to everything else that's going on. There are 2 of us so we need 2 tickets for the Woburn Express bringing the total a little closer to what Preflight charges. For trips of less than 7 days the difference is meaningless so I drive to the airport. Anything longer it starts to add-up so I use Woburn Express. But for a group of 3 or 4 than pre-flight is always going to be cheaper.


Yup, number of people definitely changes the calculus. Every time central parking and the economy lot raise their prices, the off-airport places just keep going up and up to follow. Supply and demand. I think the biggest craw is terminal roadways, though. Changes made in the big dig era (fifteen years ago!) are finally starting to burst beyond capacity.

Dieuwer wrote:
Why not just dig a passenger tunnel from the Blue Line Station to the basement of Central Parking? You can fit the tunnel with moving walkways if preferred. Similar to the Terminal A connector.


The terminal E expansion had plans for an above-ground covered walkway from Airport Station to Terminal E that connects to the central parking walkway system, IIRC, but I don't remember if it is still part of the project.
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airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:53 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Why not just dig a passenger tunnel from the Blue Line Station to the basement of Central Parking? You can fit the tunnel with moving walkways if preferred. Similar to the Terminal A connector.

The new terminal E expansion will essentially be across the street from the blue line station. Whether people will want to walk all the way to the check-in are of any terminal or take the bus, that's a different story :) It will still be a very long walk.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:54 pm

airbazar wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Why not just dig a passenger tunnel from the Blue Line Station to the basement of Central Parking? You can fit the tunnel with moving walkways if preferred. Similar to the Terminal A connector.

The new terminal E expansion will essentially be across the street from the blue line station. Whether people will want to walk all the way to the check-in are of any terminal or take the bus, that's a different story :) It will still be a very long walk.


Not if it is fitted with moving walkways.
 
rob2507
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:37 pm

Since we're talking about commutes, south shore resident here. I live about a 5 minute walk from the Kingston commuter rail branch, and I've used CR to get to the airport many times, but with some limits. First, it's tough to use on the weekend because we only get 8 round trips on Sat/Sun, so if you miss a train, it could be a long wait until the next one. I also try to avoid rush hour obviously since at my stop it can be standing room only if the train is on the small side. However, once I get to South Station, it's a quick walk downstairs to the Silver Line and out to the airport (provided you get a green light at D Street...).
As a daily rider of the CR for my job, it generally does a good job at getting me in and out on time, but as we all know, that's what it was designed to do. The Rail Vision program has some interesting possibilities to transform the service in the future: https://www.mbta.com/projects/rail-vision
 
ConnectAir
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:03 pm

When I'm not at college, I live up in the Merrimack River Valley, roughly equidistant between the Lowell line and the Fitchburg line. When my family travels down to Logan we always use preflight, because it is just not efficient to have to get to one of the stations, take the train to North Station and then either take a taxi or the subway to Logan. Even when I've looked into traveling on my own and taking the T down to the airport, the cost/efficiency calculation is weighted too far away from using the T to get into BOS.
What I really think they need to do is unify the North and South Stations and then make a mega hub that is well connected to all the major T lines/major points of interest (potentially using more Silver Line buses for some of these connections). While expensive and resource intensive that would solve our problems with getting into Logan and also help to make it easier to commute into Boston from the outer suburbs, as well as to commute within Boston.
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dtremit
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:12 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
airbazar wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Why not just dig a passenger tunnel from the Blue Line Station to the basement of Central Parking? You can fit the tunnel with moving walkways if preferred. Similar to the Terminal A connector.

The new terminal E expansion will essentially be across the street from the blue line station. Whether people will want to walk all the way to the check-in are of any terminal or take the bus, that's a different story :) It will still be a very long walk.


Not if it is fitted with moving walkways.


I think the previous proposal for moving walkways to E was shelved because they would have been among the longest moving walkways in the world. That's presumably why they're now looking at an APM instead.

Worth remembering that moving walkways tend not to be great solutions for people with disabilities; they can't be used easily by people in wheelchairs, and stepping on/off is hard for anyone without great balance or coordination.
 
iyerhari
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:34 pm

airbazar wrote:
Way back in the day when I lived in Wakefield I used to take the commuter rail to N.station then either taxi or subway to the airport but that's because I had a pass so it cost me nothing :) I would love to be able to do that today but the commuter rail from this far out is painfully slow and expensive. Over 1 hour to travel only 35 miles is absurd.
Yes Preflight has gotten expensive too but that's them just adjusting to everything else that's going on. There are 2 of us so we need 2 tickets for the Woburn Express bringing the total a little closer to what Preflight charges. For trips of less than 7 days the difference is meaningless so I drive to the airport. Anything longer it starts to add-up so I use Woburn Express. But for a group of 3 or 4 than pre-flight is always going to be cheaper.

@airbazar - I travel every week and take the 6:50 am flight to ORD. I return back home Thu night. I really cannot use the public transportation system despite living in Watertown which is to take bus 71 to Harvard Sq. -> red line to South Station and then silver line to Logan. I had checked the time and door to door to Terminal B it would take me at-least 1.5 hrs. one way. In retrospect, if I take the Uber and use the arrivals in the am. I reach Logan exactly in 18 mins. flat. Yes, it is expected and i keep getting frustrated that the lines are long to enter the airport and it has become worse after Uber / Lyft started service, but the challenge is the existing mass transportation system is simply not friendly based on schedules. The situation is worse in terms of parking too. I see the board at Terminal B and boy, the line is immense. I believe many folks may taken the easier way out to use rideshare vs. realizing parking is exhausted at 6:00 am EST at Logan.

I do not know much about Woburn Express etc. but my colleagues who live in the burbs like Hopkinton etc. complain it is not easy for folks who have a compelling reason to take the first flight in and out of the city or having to take the last flight. My colleagues all pretty much use rideshare as people do not want to waste time and anyways the client is paying for all this :) I am sure if people had to use their own wallets, it would be a different story.

I believe for your business trips, does your employer/client not pay for all this?
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:07 pm

From Watertown, taking the 71 and connecting to the red line is not so bad. The 71 now has its own lane (kinda) and the red line its own tracks. The problem is the garbage silver line bus which is completely overstuffed and can be stuck in the tunnels forever with the other traffic.
 
B752OS
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:44 pm

The MBTA needs to extend the blue line up to Lynn (something that should be done regardless of any benefit to getting to/from Logan) and also build the red/blue connector so the blue line and red line connect at Charles/MGH. Add in the APM and suddenly the blue line becomes a lot more convenient and attractive to people.

Don't quote me on this, but I thought I read on another forum that putting the blue line station under the central parking garage was not going to be possible due to the amount of supports and foundation required to handle the massive central parking garage.
 
RL757PVD
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Mar 19, 2019 12:55 am

The T stands for ticking tax timebomb for Boston. There’s way to expand and add any form of redundancy to allow for expanded operations or 24hr operations to graduate to the next level that won’t cost billions of dollars. And what does that $5 billion cost do to the economic competitiveness? The longer they neglect the T, the more they will regret it.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
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dvincent
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:44 am

iyerhari wrote:
I do not know much about Woburn Express etc. but my colleagues who live in the burbs like Hopkinton etc. complain it is not easy for folks who have a compelling reason to take the first flight in and out of the city or having to take the last flight. My colleagues all pretty much use rideshare as people do not want to waste time and anyways the client is paying for all this :) I am sure if people had to use their own wallets, it would be a different story.


If you know people who live in the Hopkinton / MetroWest area, they'd want to take the Framingham Logan Express. Woburn's for those in the northwest side of 128. Early flights work fine since they have early bird trips (3, 4, 5 AM). If they're traveling on employer-paid business, then use the airport or off-airport lots.

Pros of Logan Express: Cheap parking. $7/day. If you fly a lot, ten ride books turn it into a $15/trip ticket instead of $22. Buses are generally comfortable even when full. Easy with luggage since it just goes underneath the bus unlike subway/rail. If you have to sit in traffic anyway, why not just let someone else drive?

Cons of Logan Express: Buses run every half hour most of the time, but hourly on Saturdays (and early Sunday AM) so if you're used to five minute parking shuttles it's an adjustment. The last Express bus generally hits Terminal A at 1:15 AM and if your flight arrives at 12:30 and you have to pick up a bag (or get delayed) you're pretty much guaranteed to miss it. Tickets add up if you're traveling with multiple people, but children 17 and under a free.

If you live in Watertown, I'd be taking Lyft or a taxi for a longer trip and using Preflight (or other parking service) for shorter ones. That's what I did when living in Waltham, where Logan Express was not convenient.

Logan seems to lack shared shuttle services that go door-to-door a la SuperShuttle, for reasons I don't know. People would use Lyft etc. a lot less if SuperShuttle was part of the culture.

I believe for your business trips, does your employer/client not pay for all this?


When I travel on business and it's on my employer's dime, I park in central parking (or Economy if it's full or more than three days). For my own trips for my side-business of convention travel, I use Logan Express to be as cheap as possible, as every dollar I spend on traveling is less profit on those trips. I do have standards though, I usually fly B6.
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:23 am

T-100's are out for September (for International) (Domestic for full year will come later)

Report Set Up
1. Analysis is Month, quarter, YTD and Month by Month
2. 2, Summary Page by Region
3 BOS pages – showing routes from Boston only
4 Airline Pages – showing all routes by carrier for foreign flag carriers serving Boston, I have ignored AC for the time being as they are super complicated to fix up.
5 File link: https://drive.google.com/open?id=158fLj ... eN10_RI6m1
.
Comparatives will not match Massport numbers, for a number of reasons, including charter airlines being removed, diverts being removed, categorization differences to say but a few

Overall -

Month: 677K pax recorded, 819K seats for an 82.72% load, more details in each region, but ranking in load order was 1) Europe, 2) Middle East, 3) Canada, 4) Asia, 5) South America, 6) Caribbean, 7) Central America

YTD: 5.7m pax recorded, 6.9m seats for an 83.21% load, ranking in load order 1) Middle East, 2) Caribbean, 3) Central America, 4) Europe, 5) Asia, 6) South America, 7) Canada


Caribbean

Month: Not really high season for the Caribbean in September, 64k pax on 555 flights with 82.5K seats for an average load of 77%, best routes were BGI and MBJ (1 weekly) along with SDQ (daily +) on B6, all of which managed 83-85%, the remaining routes all posted 70% plus except for DL’s daily BDA which slumped to a 69%. Avg Pax were 117, which was slightly worse than Jan and September was the worst month of the year so far.

YTD: 764k pax on 901K seats and 6,009 flights for a 84.82% load Unsurprisingly B6 takes the lion’s share of the market pulling 669K of that, DL ran 81K, then AA with around 14K. From a volume standpoint SJU still rules the roost at 172K, followed by AUA with 128K and BDA with 113K, from a load standpoint,

Top 5 are 1) BGI (91.41%) on 16K pax, 2) PUJ (90.53%) on 65K pax 3) POP (89.69%) on 5K pax, 4) UVF (89.56%) on 5K pax and 5) SDQ (89.42%) on 85K pax.

Bottom 5 are 1) BDA (73.46%) on 112K pax, 2) PLS (82.34%) on 20K pax, 3) PAP (82.83%) on 22K pax, 4) STI (84.13%) on 74K pax and 5) NAS (86.06%) on 28K pax – would have been #6, but some AA flights dragged the average down

Canada -

Month: Decent month for Canada in September, 95k pax on 1,636 flights with 119K seats for an average load of 80%, winners were Sky Regional to YYZ with 92% loads on 24.5K pax and Jazz to YUL with 83.43% on 16.3K Pax, the also ran award went to Jazz with YOW and a 63.2% return on 2,700 pax. AC’s YVR route managed 73.2% and 4K pax in the month.

YTD: 810k pax on 1.04M seats and 14,609 flights for a 77.63% load, carriers are pretty split. Sky managed 237K, Jazz, 208K, Porter 159K, Westjet 149K and AC mainline 57K From a volume standpoint YYZ is #1 with 361K, YTZ #2 with 159K, then YUL with 157K, from a load standpoint, Top was YVR with 84.43% on 26K pax, then YYZ with 82.85% on 361K pax, bottom was YOW with 62.66%, YUL would be better but a 51.66% number from WS dragged it down from 81% to 73%.

Airlines – YTD rankings only

PD – BOS was #1 station with 74.37%, followed by EWR with 70%, but they have double the flights, BTV posted a bone-chilling 26.49%, not good.

WS – Not much to say here except that all 3 routes were bottom of WS’s load factor table with 70%’s or lower, the only one to get close was LAX with 78%. #1 was TPA with a 96.5% on 398 flights.

Europe -

Month: An excellent month for the Europe Region 395K pax on 460k seats and 1,751 flights for an average of 85.76%., all airlines posted above 70% for the month with the exception of SK at 69.44% and S4 to TER at 66.74%. A number of routes posted above 90%, Level to BCN took the honors with 93.68%, DI to LGW was #2 with 92.68%, #3 was EI to DUB with 92.07%, 4th was AF with 91.31% and 5th and the last of the 90%’s was LH to MUC that just made it with 90.08%

YTD: 2.97m pax on 3.54M seats and 13,495 flights for a 83.91% load, two routes have averaged above 90% for YTD across their carriers, that would be IB (Level) and DY (LGW), SK has averaged barely over 60% for the year and 5 more routes averaged under 80% for the year.

Top 5 are 1) BCN (94.35%) on 37K pax, 2) LGW (91.48%) on 155K pax 3) FCO (88.55%) on 89K pax, 4) CDG (88.43%) on 308K pax (AF #1 with 90.12%) and 5) AMS (87.71%) on 213K pax.

Bottom 5 are 1) CPH (62.07%) on 45K pax, 2) RAI (75.70%) on 12K pax, 3) TER (76.06%) on 19K pax, 4) STN (76.65%) on 10K pax and 5) MAN (78.43%) on 43K pax (MT won with 80.96%

Airlines – YTD rankings only

In terms of comparatives, BOS ranked the following: numbers in ( ) are how many in each listing

AF – 1st (13) – 90.12% JFK 2nd and SFO currently 3rd
AZ - 1st (6) – 88.55% ahead of MIA and JFK
BA – 13th (22) - 81.41%, ahead of JFK, but behind SAN, #1 was SEA 6% ahead with SFO #2
DL - AMS – 5th (13) 87.71%, ahead of MCO and behind SEA, #1 ATL, #2 SLC
DL - CDG – 8th (14) – 85.32% ahead of MSP, behind DTW, #1 LAX, but very low # of flights, #2 EWR, less than 3% difference between EWR and BOS.
DL – LHR – 6th (8) – 76.25%, ahead of JFK, behind DTW, #1 SLC, #2 MSP
DL - DUB - 2nd (3) – 88.48% was pretty good, but using smaller aircraft than JFK/ATL, ATL #1
DY - LGW - 1st (11) – 91.48%ahead of FLL as #2 and JFK as #3
DY - CDG – 3rd (7) – 89.57%, behind LAX, but ahead of FLL
EI - DUB & SNN – 3rd and 12th (14) – 87.04% and 80.09%, winner was SEA with JFK -DUB #2
FI - 3rd (18) .81.05%, ahead of IAD and behind EWR, winner YTD was SEA about 2.5% ahead
IB - MAD - 3rd (7) – 84.99%, JFK and MIA led the way, with SJU bringing up the rear,
IB (Level) - BCN - 1st (3) over 94%, have to wonder if consideration would be given for increasing frequency?
LH - FRA – 3rd (19) 86.64% behind, EWR and SFO, ahead of SEA.
LH - MUC -6th (11) with 82.71%, behind ORD and ahead of JFK, winner EWR and MIA.
LX – 3rd (7) – 85.3%, 1.5% behind MIA in first and SFO in 2nd. Running ahead of LAX
MT - 7th (7) – 80.96% - way lower than all the other routes, sadly unsurprising why it was cut.
SK - 6th (6) -62.07%, last by over 11%, this one can’t survive surely unless like DL with LHR they are getting a lot of upfront traffic?
TP - 5th (5) – 86.66%, but only 2% behind EWR and on par with JFK.
VS - LHR 9th (10) – 75.56%, ahead of IAD, behind SFO (by barely 0.1%), winner was ATL with 81.7% (LAS doesn’t count with only 4 flights)
VS – MAN 6th (6) – 74.62%, 0.3% behind SFO and 5% behind JFK in #1. Be interesting to see what happens with MT gone and the Flybe scenario to come.
WW - 4th (14) – 82.21%, less than 1% behind SFO in 3rd, 5% behind BWI in 1st and ahead of DFW.

Middle East-

Month: Mid East Region managed 49K pax on 59k seats and 196 flights for an average of 82.49%.EK managed 304 pax per flight during the month, all airlines posted above 80% for the month with the exception of QR at 71.75%.
TK - #1 with 88.73% on 15k pax and 256 per flight
EK - #2 with 85.92% on 18k pax and 304 per flight
LY - #3 with 82.84% on 3k pax and 180 per flight
QR - #4 with 71.75% on 12K pax and 203 per flight


YTD: Mid East Region managed 461K pax on 536k seats and 1,795 flights for an average of 86.19 %.EK managed 321 pax per flight during the year, all airlines posted above 80% for the year
EK - #1 with 90.81% on 175k pax and 321 per flight
TK - #2 with 86.94% on 125k pax and 251 per flight
and in almost a tie..
QR - #3 with 81.18% on 125K pax and 230 per flight (less than 200 pax between TK/QR)
LY - #4 with 81.15% on 37k pax and 176 per flight
.
Airlines – YTD rankings only

In terms of comparatives, BOS ranked the following: numbers in ( ) are how many in each listing

EK - 2nd (12) – 90.81%, 1.4% behind SEA in first and ahead of SFO. MCO and IAH brought up the rear.
LY – 5th (5) – 81.15% 2.7% behind LAX
QR – 3rd (10) – 81.18% 0.7% behind ATL, basement dweller was MIA with only 70%.
TK – 6th (9) – 86.94%, 3% behind LAX, ATL finished last at 76.01%

Asia-

Month: Asia Region managed 43K pax on 54k seats and 210 flights for an average of 78.67%. JL and CX managed over 80%, HU was in the low 70%’s on both routes.

JL - #1 with 89.16% on 10k pax and 174 per flight
CX - #2 with 80.25% on 12k pax and 221 per flight
HU – PEK - #3 with 74.81% on 13k pax and 215 per flight
HU - PVG - #4 with 71.00% on 7K pax and 204 per flight


YTD: Asia Region managed 401K pax on 481k seats and 1,900 flights for an average of 83.29 %.All routes managed over 80% with the exception of PVG.
CX - #1 with 89.23% on 129k pax and 245 per flight
JL - #2 with 85.74% on 91k pax and 167 per flight
HU – PEK - #3 with 80.37% on 122k pax and 225 per flight
HU - PVG - #4 with 74.81% on 59K pax and 205 per flight
.
Airlines – YTD rankings only

In terms of comparatives, BOS ranked the following: numbers in ( ) are how many in each listing

CX – 2nd (6) - best out of single daily flight destinations, 1.5% behind LAX who run triple daily.
JL - 2nd (9) - only beaten by GUM which is double daily, almost 2.5% ahead of SAN in 3rd.
HU - PEK – 3rd (5) - 1% behind SJC,ORD was 78%, LAS 66%
HU - PVG only 1 comparative, which is SEA and a whopping 11% behind,

The Americas

Central America -

Month: Cent Am Region managed 21K pax on 29k seats and 198 flights for an average of 71.77%.All routes managed 70%+ except for B6’s CUN route which scraped over 60%
CM - #1 with 74.65% on 9k pax and 99 per flight
TA - #2 with 71.72% on 3.4k pax and 108 per flight
AM - #3 with 71.16% on 6k pax and 114 per flight
B6 - #4 with 60.52% on 1.6K pax and 91 per flight


YTD: Cent Am Region managed 261K pax on 311k seats and 2,025 flights for an average of 84.16 %. All routes managed 80%+ except for AM and TA.

CUN – 3 airlines on the route, 2 seasonal
DL – 93.68% on 31K pax and 146 per flight
AA – 91.92% on 10K pax and 147 per flight
B6 – 87.83% on 47K pax and 133 per flight

LIR – B6 – Seasonal, 90.96% during the season, 139 per flight

PTY – 84.15% but considering this is now above daily, a great result 102K pax and 126 per flight
MEX – 76.90% on 60K pax and 123 pax per flight
SAL – 75.23% on 5.6K pax and 114 per flight, but this is only 2 months in.

Airlines – YTD rankings only

In terms of comparatives, BOS ranked the following: numbers in ( ) are how many in each listing

CM – 8th (14) – 1.3% behind MIA, and 2% ahead of SFO in 9th, top was JFK with 91%
AM – 10th (17) – 0.15% behind SEA in 9th and 0.9% ahead of LAS in 11th, top was LAX with 85%
TA – 10th (11) – 2.5% ahead of ORD and 2% behind MIA, winner was IAD with 88.41%, 13% higher.


South America –

Month: South Am Region managed 11K pax on 15k seats and 94 flights for an average of 77.99%.

JJ - #1 with 82.61% on 6k pax and 178 per flight
AV - #2 with 73.33% on 5.3k pax and 89 per flight


YTD: South Am Region managed 53K pax on 63k seats and 442 flights for an average of 83.09%.

JJ - #1 with 86.24% on 19.5K pax and 186 per flight
AV - #2 with 81.33$ on 33K pax and 98 per flight

Airlines – YTD rankings only

In terms of comparatives, BOS ranked the following: numbers in ( ) are how many in each listing

AV – 7th (8) – 3.5% ahead of SJU and 1.2% behind IAD, top place went to FLL with 88.63%
JJ – 2nd (5) – 2% behind JFK as the leader and 0.6% ahead of MCO. Basement dweller was MIA with 76%

More details in the file.. enjoy..
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10178
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:07 pm

If you live in Watertown, I'd be taking Lyft or a taxi for a longer trip and using Preflight (or other parking service) for shorter ones. That's what I did when living in Waltham, where Logan Express was not convenient.

Logan seems to lack shared shuttle services that go door-to-door a la SuperShuttle, for reasons I don't know. People would use Lyft etc. a lot less if SuperShuttle was part of the culture.


Watertown is the hinterlands of public transit hahaha! If i had to live there I'd take Lyft/Uber so often I'd probably end up being a driver for one :)
There is Flightline for shared shuttle but like taxis they are/were ridiculously expensive which is why they never caught on. Haven't seen one of those vans in a while.
I don't travel for work anymore so it's always on my dime. Being in the technology field it's hard to justify traveling for work when there's so much video conferencing going on and once I had a kid, being away from home became too much of a hassle. I go out of my way not to have to travel for work but I still do it about once a year since my team is split all over the world.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:08 pm

People who fly one or more times per week really should live as close to the airport as possible. Otherwise you will be spending half of your life in queues and traffic jams.
 
EK77WNH
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:51 pm

I'm a bit surprised SEA didn't get the EK A380 instead of us. Must be a gate thing.
Next Trip:
JAL 7-8 BOS-NRT-BOS, 787-9
September
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:00 pm

EK77WNH wrote:
I'm a bit surprised SEA didn't get the EK A380 instead of us. Must be a gate thing.

There's been a thread about it. The official reason is taxiway separation or lack of it. SEA doesn't want to submit for an exemption to Code F operations like BOS did, because it would be too disruptive. Or so they claim.
There's not enough separation between taxiway A and the ramp and between taxiway B and Rwy 16L/34R so it would require "special" handling.
The mitigation I think would be to either have a hold on all ground ops or to use Taxiway T and Q to get to and from the North end of any of the runways.
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ScottB
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:04 am

Dieuwer wrote:
There would be no problem today had the Blue Line station be built right under central parking.

B752OS wrote:
I thought I read on another forum that putting the blue line station under the central parking garage was not going to be possible due to the amount of supports and foundation required to handle the massive central parking garage.


I can't imagine any feasible plan which would have rerouted the Blue Line under Logan Central Parking. Central Parking is about 3/4 mile southeast of the Blue Line -- basically perpendicular to the current route. You'd be talking about a mile-and-a-half/five minute detour for all the folks who commute on the Blue Line. Every day in both directions.

dvincent wrote:
The green line is the oldest subway, but the blue line is pretty close.


The Orange Line is older, too, although basically none of it is on the original alignment now. And the Airport station is on the extension of the East Boston Tunnel which didn't open until the 1950s.

VS4ever wrote:
It's a complex infrastructure problem caused by the location of BOS in East Boston as it's not easy to get to by anything but a car type scenario (unless you live in specific areas that have great public transit links), so it's not going to be an easy answer, what there is a fight between Massport managing 1970's infrastructure with an almost 2020 problem that was never even dreamed of occuring even in the last 10 years. They basically can't win. They are trying to present themselves as a green airport with ways to keep carbon usage down, and i absolutely applaud them for that, but they are up against a flying public that have voted with their wallets by saying primarily Uber/Lyft is the way they want to get to the airport. But... they don't have the infrastructure to support the volume. So what do you do?


I'm not truly convinced that Massport really wants public transit to be a viable alternative for travel to BOS for travelers who aren't extremely price-sensitive or gung-ho about using transit. Virtually every other mode -- parking, taxi, app ride, rental car, Logan Express -- produces revenue which goes into the airport's coffers. Public transit doesn't and Massport spends money to subsidize the Silver Line.

The ride to/from the Blue Line is MUCH worse than it was 20 years ago. Back when the old station was still in use, the upper level of the station was on a return ramp between the outbound and inbound access roads. Buses boarded on that ramp and the ride to the terminals was brief -- the ride to (old) Terminal A was maybe two or three minutes. Plus the buses tended to be dispatched with each outbound train -- so there was a bus waiting and once all the passengers had made their way onto the bus, off they went. Today, there's no coordination between the trains and buses, the buses sit at the rental car center for several minutes, and the ride on the surface roads is slow with the buses passing through three traffic lights between the T station and the terminals. You're lucky if you can make it from the train to the terminal in under 10 minutes. It's occasionally faster to walk between Maverick and Terminal A.

One of the biggest improvements in congestion on the terminal roadways was eliminating the rental car shuttles for the individual companies. The number of buses they were putting on the road was ridiculous.

I think they want to charge for pick-up/drop-off simply because the infrastructure is in place now with all-electronic tolling. It's another revenue source but they can pass it off as being environmentally responsible.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:31 pm

ScottB wrote:
The ride to/from the Blue Line is MUCH worse than it was 20 years ago. Back when the old station was still in use, the upper level of the station was on a return ramp between the outbound and inbound access roads. Buses boarded on that ramp and the ride to the terminals was brief -- the ride to (old) Terminal A was maybe two or three minutes. Plus the buses tended to be dispatched with each outbound train -- so there was a bus waiting and once all the passengers had made their way onto the bus, off they went. Today, there's no coordination between the trains and buses, the buses sit at the rental car center for several minutes, and the ride on the surface roads is slow with the buses passing through three traffic lights between the T station and the terminals. You're lucky if you can make it from the train to the terminal in under 10 minutes. It's occasionally faster to walk between Maverick and Terminal A.


Not a bad idea actually. If it's nice weather is should be about 15 mins. walk.
 
ScottB
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:09 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
ScottB wrote:
It's occasionally faster to walk between Maverick and Terminal A.


Not a bad idea actually. If it's nice weather is should be about 15 mins. walk.


It's a pretty straight shot down Maverick St. If you're willing to take a bit of a detour (and are burning more than 15 minutes) you can always drop in at KO Pies or Downeast Cider.
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:12 pm

EK77WNH wrote:
I'm a bit surprised SEA didn't get the EK A380 instead of us. Must be a gate thing.


Aside from SEA’s infrastructure issues my guess is yields and premium demand is higher out BOS. Don’t forget SEA was reduced to only the 77L for quite awhile which they did away with F on that model.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:17 am

https://whdh.com/news/massport-unveils- ... airport-2/
Yep as i predicted, they are coming after the lyft guys for way more money. And the move to central parking is going to suck from a convenience factor, sigh..
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:44 pm

VS4ever wrote:
https://whdh.com/news/massport-unveils-new-plan-aimed-at-curbing-rideshare-traffic-at-logan-airport-2/
Yep as i predicted, they are coming after the lyft guys for way more money. And the move to central parking is going to suck from a convenience factor, sigh..

Oh boy. My prediction is by concentrating all operations in a central location it's going to cause a huge traffic jam at the entrance to the garage and that will back up all the way to route 1 and the tunnel. They may end congestion in the airport roadways but that's because no one will be able to get in. It's going to be a nightmare. The congestion at terminal A alone already does that some times now imagine the concentrated congestion from all terminals at that same spot :banghead: They need to spread the pain, not concentrate it.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:44 pm

VS4ever wrote:
https://whdh.com/news/massport-unveils-new-plan-aimed-at-curbing-rideshare-traffic-at-logan-airport-2/
Yep as i predicted, they are coming after the lyft guys for way more money. And the move to central parking is going to suck from a convenience factor, sigh..


So....Massport wants to ban Lyft/Uber from dropping off their clients at terminal doors, but taxis still can?? Sounds like illegal discrimination.
 
RL757PVD
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:47 pm

Taxis are licensed and have permits, that’s the difference.

The real crime is that you can’t reasonably take the T to the airport if your flight is before 7am
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:49 pm

RL757PVD wrote:
Taxis are licensed and have permits, that’s the difference.

The real crime is that you can’t reasonably take the T to the airport if your flight is before 7am


With all those fees tacked onto Lyft/Uber, I wonder if taxis will become cheaper...
And the REAL real crime is that there is no good public transport option straight from the terminal exit. Like there is in DCA, ORD, and SFO.

Eventually, Massport incompentence will drive people away. If it costs more money to actually GET to the airport than fly FROM the airport, you might as well start checking out MHT and PVD again.
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:02 pm

VS4ever wrote:
https://whdh.com/news/massport-unveils-new-plan-aimed-at-curbing-rideshare-traffic-at-logan-airport-2/
Yep as i predicted, they are coming after the lyft guys for way more money. And the move to central parking is going to suck from a convenience factor, sigh..


Sounds like it’s just a proposal now with a vote coming next month. Hopefully they can come up with some compromises before the vote, but it isn’t looking promising. This really sucks.

In terms of rideshares dropping people off at their terminals....I’ve seen some Lyft or Uber’s that have stickers on them, but I’ve also ridden in ones that don’t. How does massport in that case know what is a rideshare vehicle and what is a friend/loved one dropping someone off?
 
rob2507
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:46 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
In terms of rideshares dropping people off at their terminals....I’ve seen some Lyft or Uber’s that have stickers on them, but I’ve also ridden in ones that don’t. How does massport in that case know what is a rideshare vehicle and what is a friend/loved one dropping someone off?


All rideshares are required to have the company's sticker displayed or risk getting a ticket, especially during peak times when Massport is actively monitoring the pickup areas.
I'll be interested to see how many people will now make the trek into central parking when they could just grab a cab right outside the terminal doors.
From the driver's perspective, I think most would appreciate staying in CP rather than having to drive all the way over to the lot next to the Massport office building to wait for the next fare. When the limos/town cars were doing pickups in CP years ago (late 90s, and then again in mid-00s), for the most part it worked fine.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:56 pm

rob2507 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
In terms of rideshares dropping people off at their terminals....I’ve seen some Lyft or Uber’s that have stickers on them, but I’ve also ridden in ones that don’t. How does massport in that case know what is a rideshare vehicle and what is a friend/loved one dropping someone off?


All rideshares are required to have the company's sticker displayed or risk getting a ticket, especially during peak times when Massport is actively monitoring the pickup areas.
I'll be interested to see how many people will now make the trek into central parking when they could just grab a cab right outside the terminal doors.
From the driver's perspective, I think most would appreciate staying in CP rather than having to drive all the way over to the lot next to the Massport office building to wait for the next fare. When the limos/town cars were doing pickups in CP years ago (late 90s, and then again in mid-00s), for the most part it worked fine.


Is it just me, or am I believing for passengers to get to the ground floor of CP is not exactly a cakewalk either? I mean of course you can get to the higher levels easily through elevators and bridges, but then you have to go back down again and then find your way to whatever area is going to be signed for this. I totally agree from a driver perspective, it will allow them to wait, like Taxis do, but from the passenger perspective it's a pretty horrid solution. That said, even with a tripling of the fee from the current $3.25 to $10 extra, that's only going to add $6 to my ride from the North Shore (maybe $8 with a little profit pass on), it would still be $20 cheaper for me to take lyft over the regular cab, my question is, is that $20 worth the hassle of getting over to the terminal from the bottom of CP.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:56 pm

RL757PVD wrote:
Taxis are licensed and have permits, that’s the difference.

So are Uber and Lyfts since 2016.
https://www.masslive.com/politics/2016/ ... setts.html
The real difference is one has a union and the others don't.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:06 pm

VS4ever wrote:
rob2507 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
In terms of rideshares dropping people off at their terminals....I’ve seen some Lyft or Uber’s that have stickers on them, but I’ve also ridden in ones that don’t. How does massport in that case know what is a rideshare vehicle and what is a friend/loved one dropping someone off?


All rideshares are required to have the company's sticker displayed or risk getting a ticket, especially during peak times when Massport is actively monitoring the pickup areas.
I'll be interested to see how many people will now make the trek into central parking when they could just grab a cab right outside the terminal doors.
From the driver's perspective, I think most would appreciate staying in CP rather than having to drive all the way over to the lot next to the Massport office building to wait for the next fare. When the limos/town cars were doing pickups in CP years ago (late 90s, and then again in mid-00s), for the most part it worked fine.


Is it just me, or am I believing for passengers to get to the ground floor of CP is not exactly a cakewalk either? I mean of course you can get to the higher levels easily through elevators and bridges, but then you have to go back down again and then find your way to whatever area is going to be signed for this. I totally agree from a driver perspective, it will allow them to wait, like Taxis do, but from the passenger perspective it's a pretty horrid solution. That said, even with a tripling of the fee from the current $3.25 to $10 extra, that's only going to add $6 to my ride from the North Shore (maybe $8 with a little profit pass on), it would still be $20 cheaper for me to take lyft over the regular cab, my question is, is that $20 worth the hassle of getting over to the terminal from the bottom of CP.


The difference from Watertown will become negligible. In fact, sometimes Lyft/Uber is more expensive than a cab already.
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:09 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
The difference from Watertown will become negligible. In fact, sometimes Lyft/Uber is more expensive than a cab already.

There's am easy way around that, that I bet will become more popular. Take a rideshare to/from the airport T stop on the East Boston side do you don't have to pay the airport fees then hop on the free shuttle bus to/from the terminals.
 
rob2507
Posts: 159
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2001 3:47 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:29 pm

VS4ever wrote:
Is it just me, or am I believing for passengers to get to the ground floor of CP is not exactly a cakewalk either? I mean of course you can get to the higher levels easily through elevators and bridges, but then you have to go back down again and then find your way to whatever area is going to be signed for this. I totally agree from a driver perspective, it will allow them to wait, like Taxis do, but from the passenger perspective it's a pretty horrid solution. That said, even with a tripling of the fee from the current $3.25 to $10 extra, that's only going to add $6 to my ride from the North Shore (maybe $8 with a little profit pass on), it would still be $20 cheaper for me to take lyft over the regular cab, my question is, is that $20 worth the hassle of getting over to the terminal from the bottom of CP.

Pax would go up to the departure level and then take the enclosed walkways to CP. Yes, a long hike, but everyone that's parked in CP is doing it, so it will come down to personal preference. For comparison, my manager at work will always grab a taxi if it's easier than a rideshare.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:42 pm

airbazar wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
The difference from Watertown will become negligible. In fact, sometimes Lyft/Uber is more expensive than a cab already.

There's am easy way around that, that I bet will become more popular. Take a rideshare to/from the airport T stop on the East Boston side do you don't have to pay the airport fees then hop on the free shuttle bus to/from the terminals.


But then you STILL have to board a bus and sit in Logan traffic...how is that different from taking the T anyway?
 
RL757PVD
Posts: 3197
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:30 pm

airbazar wrote:
RL757PVD wrote:
Taxis are licensed and have permits, that’s the difference.

So are Uber and Lyfts since 2016.
https://www.masslive.com/politics/2016/ ... setts.html
The real difference is one has a union and the others don't.


I was referring to airport specific commercial ground transportation permits. Every single commercial vehicle that picks up at the airport will have some sort of quarterly or annual permit.

I don’t know what BOS charges but I can tell you when I had to manage it at an airport that had 300,000 annual emplanements, it was $200/yr/vehicle. Uber and Lyft is commercial but each vehicle does not have this type of permit and that’s the issue that virtually every airport has.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!

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