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kitplane01
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Restrictions on Iranian Airlines

Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:10 am

What are the practical restrictions on Iranian airline companies?

1) Can they buy new western aircraft (Boeing and Airbus)
2) Can they buy (and get support/parts for) used Boeing/Airbus aircraft?
3) Can they buy Russian airliners, or do those have too many western parts?
4) Can they fly to western nations?

(I'm not asking if you think the restrictions are a good idea. This is a non-political question!)
 
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UnitedIsBae
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Re: Restrictions on Iranian Airlines

Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:27 am

They are getting new A330ceos and neos, A320s, A321s, that aren't part of the trade embargo
If it ain't Boeing I ain't going PERIOD
 
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kitplane01
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Re: Restrictions on Iranian Airlines

Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:19 am

What is the rule? Can P&W or GE not ship engine parts to Iran? And can Iran not buy them second hand from Hong Kong (or some other place)? And what about RR??
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Restrictions on Iranian Airlines

Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:43 am

blacksoviet wrote:
aviationaware wrote:
kitplane01 wrote:
What are the practical restrictions on Iranian airline companies?

1) Can they buy new western aircraft (Boeing and Airbus)
2) Can they buy (and get support/parts for) used Boeing/Airbus aircraft?
3) Can they buy Russian airliners, or do those have too many western parts?
4) Can they fly to western nations?

(I'm not asking if you think the restrictions are a good idea. This is a non-political question!)


1) No.
2) No.
3) Questionable, maybe the airframe itself but certainly not the engines (when we are talking about a Superjet which is probably the only available one right now).
4) Yes, although there is now a drive to keep at least Mahan Air out of western skies due to their continued shuttling of terrorists throughout the middle east.

UnitedIsBae wrote:
They are getting new A330ceos and neos, A320s, A321s, that aren't part of the trade embargo


Yea, not really.

Why would Mahan Air shuttle terrorists throughout the middle east?


W5 specifically is linked to the IRGC, which the USA has designated as a foreign terrorist organization, particularly for the airline's involvement in Syria. W5 is banned from German airspace over this .
 
aviationaware
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Re: Restrictions on Iranian Airlines

Tue Jan 01, 2019 6:37 am

kitplane01 wrote:
What is the rule? Can P&W or GE not ship engine parts to Iran? And can Iran not buy them second hand from Hong Kong (or some other place)? And what about RR??


General rule of thumb: If it's more than 10% US made (Parts and/or labor), you can't sell it to Iran without evoking the wrath of God.
 
Philippine747
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Re: Restrictions on Iranian Airlines

Tue Jan 01, 2019 7:13 am

UnitedIsBae wrote:
They are getting new A330ceos and neos, A320s, A321s, that aren't part of the trade embargo


Problem is, a lot of the components are made in the US, which has turned its back on the lifting of sanctions.

kitplane01 wrote:
What is the rule? Can P&W or GE not ship engine parts to Iran? And can Iran not buy them second hand from Hong Kong (or some other place)? And what about RR??


Anyone who does business with Iran when it comes to controlled technologies might be banned from doing with business in the US.
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Blerg
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Re: Restrictions on Iranian Airlines

Tue Jan 01, 2019 7:36 am

I think some countries, like Germany,are making it difficult for Iranian airlines to refuel. For example, Qeshm's IKA-HAM flight regularly lands at BEG to refuel. I don't understand why isn't Iran responding by refusing the same service to Western airlines as well.
 
PanHAM
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Re: Restrictions on Iranian Airlines

Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:55 am

The sellers of aviation fuel in Hamburg decide not to sell fuel to IR. The German Government cannot force them to sell a kg of Kerosene. Rezaliating the same way would cut one of the few life lines. However of the US Government hreates a German carrier because they buy fuel from an Iranian vendor, the Airlines will have to make a tech stop en route to Germany.
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rutankrd
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Re: Restrictions on Iranian Airlines

Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:59 am

Blerg most of the Western European carriers have or are in the process of re suspending flights to Tehran so refuelling isn’t an issue.

Mahran, Meraj and SAHA and many of their directors are directly named and sanctioned for their ties with the Republican Guard and others deemed to be Terrorist groups in Syria Gaza and in The Lebanon .Acussed of delivery of Arms Munitions personnel and exportation class A drugs from the region.

Mahran has also recently been subjected to the possibility of losing landing rights in Germany and are already banned from the UK after safety incidents some years ago; They were attempting to have this lifted before Trumps unilateral reimposition of sanctions through.

Right now the EU, Russia and China remain committed to the protocol restricting Iranian Nuclear ambitions and to the system of monitoring and as such the protocol remains in force.

This in theory allows continued trade however the real damage is via the US dominated banking and finance system and those sanctions are catastrophic to Iran and it’s economy already titering on the brink under the previous sanction regime.

Airbus managed to dispatch a few 332s 321 and ATRs to Iran air However all future deliveries are now suspended indefinitely.
Last edited by rutankrd on Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:08 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
aviationaware
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Re: Restrictions on Iranian Airlines

Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:00 am

Blerg wrote:
I think some countries, like Germany,are making it difficult for Iranian airlines to refuel. For example, Qeshm's IKA-HAM flight regularly lands at BEG to refuel. I don't understand why isn't Iran responding by refusing the same service to Western airlines as well.


This does/did happen. Lufthansa used to fly their 747s to Teheran with enough fuel to fly back for a long time, not sure how they do it these days.
 
Blerg
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Re: Restrictions on Iranian Airlines

Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:31 am

aviationaware wrote:
Blerg wrote:
I think some countries, like Germany,are making it difficult for Iranian airlines to refuel. For example, Qeshm's IKA-HAM flight regularly lands at BEG to refuel. I don't understand why isn't Iran responding by refusing the same service to Western airlines as well.


This does/did happen. Lufthansa used to fly their 747s to Teheran with enough fuel to fly back for a long time, not sure how they do it these days.


They downgraded the route to an A333, I think it must depart pretty full from FRA if it has to carry enough fuel to go and come back.
 
Wacker1000
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Re: Restrictions on Iranian Airlines

Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:20 pm

Blerg wrote:
I don't understand why isn't Iran responding by refusing the same service to Western airlines as well.


They're smart enough to recognize they'd lose more on that deal than they'd gain.
 
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FlyRow
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Re: Restrictions on Iranian Airlines

Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:25 pm

Wacker1000 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
I don't understand why isn't Iran responding by refusing the same service to Western airlines as well.


They're smart enough to recognize they'd lose more on that deal than they'd gain.


Not every nation/president works on a Tit for Tat principle.
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Blerg
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Re: Restrictions on Iranian Airlines

Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:51 pm

Wacker1000 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
I don't understand why isn't Iran responding by refusing the same service to Western airlines as well.


They're smart enough to recognize they'd lose more on that deal than they'd gain.


How exactly would they lose here? If Lufthansa was to get the same treatment Iranian airlines get in Germany then it would mean other airlines would profit, it's not like the Iranian market would suffer. There are more than enough airlines to compensate.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Restrictions on Iranian Airlines

Tue Jan 01, 2019 7:07 pm

Why didn't Iran ever buy more planes from the USSR?
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
runway23
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Re: Restrictions on Iranian Airlines

Tue Jan 01, 2019 7:31 pm

Blerg wrote:
Wacker1000 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
I don't understand why isn't Iran responding by refusing the same service to Western airlines as well.


They're smart enough to recognize they'd lose more on that deal than they'd gain.


How exactly would they lose here? If Lufthansa was to get the same treatment Iranian airlines get in Germany then it would mean other airlines would profit, it's not like the Iranian market would suffer. There are more than enough airlines to compensate.


What airlines ? Service by EU carriers to Iran is down 50-75% since Trump imposed his new restrictions. Every month that goes by you see each carrier reducing capacity and/or frequency or terminating routes. You’re proposing that Iran take measures against LH, one of the last remaining European carriers to fly to IKA - it would be foolish for them to do so - if LH/OS leave Iran then nobody will replace them.

That said, it is weird that LH Group continues to fly to IKA - are they not afraid of possible US fines ?
 
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kitplane01
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Re: Restrictions on Iranian Airlines

Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:01 pm

Still confused. Iran has planes that need American engine parts. How do they get these parts? Even ATRs need engines built bu a company owned American.
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Restrictions on Iranian Airlines

Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:35 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
Why didn't Iran ever buy more planes from the USSR?

Well, in Shah's times, Iran could get all the Boeing's they wanted.
And after the revolution, with ayatollah's in power, close links with USSR were pretty much unthinkable -- it was considered yet another abomination -- maybe less so, than the US and Israel, but close enough.
Ayatollah's even took care to withdraw from a pre-WWII friendship treaty with USSR, to sever links more decisively.

Post-USSR, they did buy or lease Soviet technology, including airplanes, on the cheap, but maintenance and operation school was fond of Boeing tech, and apparently found itself incompatible with Soviet design philosophies.
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GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Restrictions on Iranian Airlines

Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:49 pm

kitplane01 wrote:
Still confused. Iran has planes that need American engine parts. How do they get these parts? Even ATRs need engines built bu a company owned American.


Used parts from scrappers, buying thru cut-outs, make your own small parts.

GF
 
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kitplane01
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Re: Restrictions on Iranian Airlines

Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:51 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
kitplane01 wrote:
Still confused. Iran has planes that need American engine parts. How do they get these parts? Even ATRs need engines built bu a company owned American.


Used parts from scrappers, buying thru cut-outs, make your own small parts.

GF

How does an Iranian airline get updates to t g e nav databases? Even on a Cessna those are by serial number from the factory, and someone else's update won't work on your device.
 
Blerg
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Re: Restrictions on Iranian Airlines

Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:07 am

runway23 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Wacker1000 wrote:

They're smart enough to recognize they'd lose more on that deal than they'd gain.


How exactly would they lose here? If Lufthansa was to get the same treatment Iranian airlines get in Germany then it would mean other airlines would profit, it's not like the Iranian market would suffer. There are more than enough airlines to compensate.


What airlines ? Service by EU carriers to Iran is down 50-75% since Trump imposed his new restrictions. Every month that goes by you see each carrier reducing capacity and/or frequency or terminating routes. You’re proposing that Iran take measures against LH, one of the last remaining European carriers to fly to IKA - it would be foolish for them to do so - if LH/OS leave Iran then nobody will replace them.

That said, it is weird that LH Group continues to fly to IKA - are they not afraid of possible US fines ?


Yes, if Germany keeps on harassing Iranian airlines then the Iranian government should do the same to Lufthansa. Even if LH Group leaves there are enough airlines to compensate for their departure starting with Turkish Airlines, Emirates, Qatar, Pegasus, Aeroflot...

As for Lufthansa, they have a code-share agreement with IR so I am sure they do ok in Iran. I was flying to YVR a few months ago and while I was waiting for my bag there were at least 10 to 15 bags that flew on IR to FRA and then connected onto LH.
 
juliuswong
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Re: Restrictions on Iranian Airlines

Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:23 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
kitplane01 wrote:
Still confused. Iran has planes that need American engine parts. How do they get these parts? Even ATRs need engines built bu a company owned American.


Used parts from scrappers, buying thru cut-outs, make your own small parts.

GF

For older airplanes, they would make their own parts or rob from retired aircraft. For the newer jet, I think they have stock up some parts from vendors and OEM before the sanctions were put in place again.
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Jouhou
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Re: Restrictions on Iranian Airlines

Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:15 am

TWA772LR wrote:
Why didn't Iran ever buy more planes from the USSR?


If you want a concise, less detailed response to this question than whats already been provided, it's because they crashed.
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c933103
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Re: Restrictions on Iranian Airlines

Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:10 am

Blerg wrote:
Wacker1000 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
I don't understand why isn't Iran responding by refusing the same service to Western airlines as well.


They're smart enough to recognize they'd lose more on that deal than they'd gain.


How exactly would they lose here? If Lufthansa was to get the same treatment Iranian airlines get in Germany then it would mean other airlines would profit, it's not like the Iranian market would suffer. There are more than enough airlines to compensate.

The American embargo was to made Iran into a difficult position and to end the country's current government by doing so. Iranian government thus use its best effort to try to make the life of people normal under their governance in order to sustain the government
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate.
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dtw2hyd
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Re: Restrictions on Iranian Airlines

Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:11 pm

As long as there are snake oil salesmen in the west ready to make a quick buck by selling scrap yard parts to Iran will have no issue. And greed has no boundaries.

The best option would be to allow a couple of UN/West approved MROs to sell/replace/track genuine parts so Iran cannot copy for dual use. OEMs can make money, Iran cannot copy the tech, passengers will be safe. Win-win. It is inhumane to force anybody to fly unsafe planes in civil aviation.
All posts are just opinions.
 
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kitplane01
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Re: Restrictions on Iranian Airlines

Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:47 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
As long as there are snake oil salesmen in the west ready to make a quick buck by selling scrap yard parts to Iran will have no issue. And greed has no boundaries.

The best option would be to allow a couple of UN/West approved MROs to sell/replace/track genuine parts so Iran cannot copy for dual use. OEMs can make money, Iran cannot copy the tech, passengers will be safe. Win-win. It is inhumane to force anybody to fly unsafe planes in civil aviation.


Two thoughts.

This would not achieve the goals that the the American government has announced

This is a non political forum. Please don’t.
 
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kitplane01
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Re: Restrictions on Iranian Airlines

Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:51 am

juliuswong wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
kitplane01 wrote:
Still confused. Iran has planes that need American engine parts. How do they get these parts? Even ATRs need engines built bu a company owned American.


Used parts from scrappers, buying thru cut-outs, make your own small parts.

GF

For older airplanes, they would make their own parts or rob from retired aircraft. For the newer jet, I think they have stock up some parts from vendors and OEM before the sanctions were put in place again.


This answer doesn’t make sense to me. For modern Cessna aircraft you need a database update every ninety days and it’s tied to your particular serial number and only the original equipment maker can supply the update.

How do Iranian aircraft get database updates?

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