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emcm541
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:59 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:12 am

From the American Airlines Route Announcement thread, AA adding more summer seasonal Intl. Service
http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/20 ... to-Africa/

ORD to Krakow, Poland (KRK) begins May 7, 5x weekly B788
ORD to Budapest, Hungary (BUD) begins May 7, 4x weekly B788
ORD to Prague, Czech Republic (PRG) begins May 8, 5x weekly B788
 
ual763
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Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 11:46 am

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:35 pm

yeogeo wrote:
The Points Guy just put out his ranking of the 50 major US airports and Chicago airports, of course, figure:
O'Hare comes in 30th and MDW is dead last.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/tpg-best- ... s-of-2019/

I found his ratings buck the usual dogma in some instances - DEN and DTW did worse in the report than O'Hare, for example.
Would love to see the exact scoring to see where airports excelled or faltered.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/tpg-best- ... s-of-2019/


And then TPG posted this article to try and show everyone how “terrible” MDW is. It blew up in their face (read the comments) because of how privileged and hoity toity it is. She’s seriously upset because the blow dryer in the bathrooms were noisy... I cannot take TPG seriously anymore. They are an absolute joke. MDW is not that bad.

https://thepointsguy.com/guide/visiting ... A0C28169F1
From flying to the NOTAM office
 
BNAMealer
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:21 pm

ual763 wrote:
yeogeo wrote:
The Points Guy just put out his ranking of the 50 major US airports and Chicago airports, of course, figure:
O'Hare comes in 30th and MDW is dead last.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/tpg-best- ... s-of-2019/

I found his ratings buck the usual dogma in some instances - DEN and DTW did worse in the report than O'Hare, for example.
Would love to see the exact scoring to see where airports excelled or faltered.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/tpg-best- ... s-of-2019/


And then TPG posted this article to try and show everyone how “terrible” MDW is. It blew up in their face (read the comments) because of how privileged and hoity toity it is. She’s seriously upset because the blow dryer in the bathrooms were noisy... I cannot take TPG seriously anymore. They are an absolute joke. MDW is not that bad.

https://thepointsguy.com/guide/visiting ... A0C28169F1


MDW isn’t my favorite, but it’s far from a terrible airport. It serves its purpose very well.

Reading both of those articles, that writer has zero credibility going forward. She definitely has an elitist attitude for sure.
 
FTMCPIUS
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:42 pm

Are aerial photos of 9C-27C progress to-date available? Thanks.
 
ORDfan
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:29 pm

The PFG "article/list" is an absolute joke. Who is paying them to release these surveys? Not to mention, I didn't see any detailed methodology for their rankings.

Really TPG is just a glorified blog anyway - I'm disappointed the mainstream media ran with this subjective BS.

Have these guys ever even flown into T1 at SAN? I passed through the new terminal B at LGA this week, and in my head, I was literally thinking that it wasn't much nicer than MDW - sure it's new and the United Club is decent enough, but it's pretty disorganized and chaotic after security (especially the seating area around gates 43-46), which is all brand new. Not exactly impressed that this is the "future" LGA. I'd take the "old" MDW layout any day.

Could MDW be spruced up a bit?? Sure, BUT its happening as we speak with the MMP. It's like an old bungalow with great bones... and a ton of light, thankfully. A little new paint, new security bridge and food court, and some fresh seating will go a long way. In the meantime, there are a lot worse airports out there... like MCI to name one.
 
chidino
Posts: 212
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:54 pm

BGA doubling down on their breathless O'Hare "exposé": What The Gov: Your O’Hare Questions, Answered
https://www.bettergov.org/news/what-the-gov-your-o-hare-questions-answered/

Did you know that the OGT "will mark the city’s fourth attempt at building a terminal to house international travelers"? Well, then, why bother, if we can't get it right? (I can hear Andy Shaw now: "Let's ignore that the 1st generation was built before jets and the "second" was a parking garage conversion... ruins the storyline." Allegedly.) This is pointedly bad reporting, not covering the story completely; is the point-making that important, or the reporting that shoddy and incomplete? In their final paragraph, the two alleged reporters (yes, it took two of them to be this inaccurate) attempt to explain $8.5 billion and ORD21 with this:

As part of O’Hare 21, the city plans to raze Terminal 2 and build there a $2.2 billion Global Terminal. It will mark the city’s fourth attempt at building a terminal to house international travelers. The current international terminal, Terminal 5, will get 10 new gates, expanded security lanes and new baggage handling systems. It will mostly house domestic travelers, though some international travelers will continue to use Terminal 5. The city began Terminal 5’s renovations in March. They are expected to cost $1.2 billion.

And that's how the BGA makes it's money: by insisting "Q. Who pays for construction and modernization projects at O’Hare? Taxpayers do, because the taxpayers own the airport and all the money generated there belongs to them."* and then asks pissed off, uninformed people to whip out their credit card. The BGA can be grateful for the community standards here on A.net so that I cannot describe what they peddle.


* that is actually in that article... they then go on to mitigate the bull with "More granularly, airport users blah blah"
 
chidino
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:46 pm

And from the "More Breathless Exposés" file: Video Shows Rodents Inside O'Hare Airport; Officials Investigate
https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Video-of-Rodents-in-OHare-Airport-530725951.html

It was allegedly at a Spirit gate. Well, that's understandable: the critters were trying to get elsewhere so they didn't have to cram into Spirit seats.
 
chidino
Posts: 212
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:36 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:58 pm

In contrast to the BGA "stories", here's a Crain's column that deals fairly with the corruption and contract shenanigans at O'Hare but still understands O'Hare's crucial importance: O'Hare is a cleanup challenge for our reform-minded mayor
https://www.chicagobusiness.com/david-greising-government/ohare-cleanup-challenge-our-reform-minded-mayor

Much more matter-of-fact about the failures of the past and how, between the new mayor and new commissioner, we MIGHT have a team that can deliver w/o excessive corruption. (Before there are 200 cynical responses, please note the use of "might.") David Greising is a very conservative, level-headed type; I think this attitude is much more reflective of Chicago's business community than the BGA screed.
 
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kordcj
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:18 pm

chidino wrote:
In contrast to the BGA "stories", here's a Crain's column that deals fairly with the corruption and contract shenanigans at O'Hare but still understands O'Hare's crucial importance: O'Hare is a cleanup challenge for our reform-minded mayor
https://www.chicagobusiness.com/david-greising-government/ohare-cleanup-challenge-our-reform-minded-mayor

Much more matter-of-fact about the failures of the past and how, between the new mayor and new commissioner, we MIGHT have a team that can deliver w/o excessive corruption. (Before there are 200 cynical responses, please note the use of "might.") David Greising is a very conservative, level-headed type; I think this attitude is much more reflective of Chicago's business community than the BGA screed.

As long as the city council is made up of the corrupt Alderman Chicago currently has, the corruption will never go away.
The most obvious proof for intelligent life in the universe is that they haven't tried to contact us.
 
BigPlaneGuy13
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:01 am

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:14 pm

ORDfan wrote:
The PFG "article/list" is an absolute joke. Who is paying them to release these surveys? Not to mention, I didn't see any detailed methodology for their rankings.

Really TPG is just a glorified blog anyway - I'm disappointed the mainstream media ran with this subjective BS.

Have these guys ever even flown into T1 at SAN? I passed through the new terminal B at LGA this week, and in my head, I was literally thinking that it wasn't much nicer than MDW - sure it's new and the United Club is decent enough, but it's pretty disorganized and chaotic after security (especially the seating area around gates 43-46), which is all brand new. Not exactly impressed that this is the "future" LGA. I'd take the "old" MDW layout any day.

Could MDW be spruced up a bit?? Sure, BUT its happening as we speak with the MMP. It's like an old bungalow with great bones... and a ton of light, thankfully. A little new paint, new security bridge and food court, and some fresh seating will go a long way. In the meantime, there are a lot worse airports out there... like MCI to name one.


I couldn't agree more. MDW lacks some of the finer cosmetics that other major airports have - but not for long considering the modernization will really enhance the dining and security experience as you point out. I actually love MDW for having ample moving walkways, and more seating than many airports these days per gate. I'd much rather spend time there than at the dystopian PHL with all of its iPads at every seat. Short taxi times are great too. Easy access to CTA - much faster than trying to catch a train at JFK.. And by this author's logic - we really ought to put PHX at the bottom for having T2 (albeit not for much longer).

Landings? Sure, they can be an awakening for non-Chicagoans. But that really is the only true downside if you ask me. Everything else is fixable and IS being fixed.

BUR comes to mind for being a worse airport cosmetically. LAX should be dead last for the abysmal traffic to simply arrive at the airport. SFO is delay-prone for being sea level with the bay.. Much to your point - the bare bones of MDW are so so SO much more workable than the likes of LGA, SEA, SFO, etc. Really eyebrow-raising and stupid article.
 
Order
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:49 am

I understand that if you are ranking anything that something needs to come in last. I suppose it comes down to what you prioritize in an airport and the fact that the margins between a great airport and a terrible one are incredibly small.

The fact of the matter is that none of us travel enough — even the executive platinum 150k — per year to achieve the sample size needed to properly judge airports. A few random delays or bad experiences with staff will color our experience with an airline or airport for years. I know, I’ve fallen victim to that both good and bad.

For example, I travel ORD - LGA about twice a month. I exclusively depart LGA on the 950pm AA flight and terminal is quiet, quick and clean. The trip from midtown is 25-30 minutes. I understand that many/most think of LGA as being the worst airport in the country but that is simply not my experience. I don’t, however, dispute that others have a bad time due to timing, terminals and airlines.

Perhaps we (TPG included) might benefit from a bit more humility and recognition in how random variance defines our experiences?
 
FromGSPtoChi
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Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:44 am

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:01 pm

Does the Chicago area need another airport? Plans for a Peotone airport are back, this time with an e-commerce spin.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/business ... story.html
 
Planeboy17
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:09 pm

According to CH Aviation news, JAL has restarted their cargo flying by entering into a partnership with Kalitta to operate a 747-400 between NRT and ORD 3 days a week. Apparently the first flight took place August 2nd.
It says the aircraft has JAL markings on it but I can’t find anything about it. ANA will also be resuming an ORD cargo flight later this year with their new 777F (2) aircraft.
Speaking of cargo ops, does anyone know if LATAM Cargo is still operating to ORD? I haven’t seen them in a while. I believe they operated Wednesday and Sunday.
 
gabik001
Posts: 468
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:24 pm

Planeboy17 wrote:
According to CH Aviation news, JAL has restarted their cargo flying by entering into a partnership with Kalitta to operate a 747-400 between NRT and ORD 3 days a week. Apparently the first flight took place August 2nd.
It says the aircraft has JAL markings on it but I can’t find anything about it. ANA will also be resuming an ORD cargo flight later this year with their new 777F (2) aircraft.
Speaking of cargo ops, does anyone know if LATAM Cargo is still operating to ORD? I haven’t seen them in a while. I believe they operated Wednesday and Sunday.

Thanks for that news.
And yes, LCO is still serving ORD twice a week.
Canon 50D gripped + Canon 70D + 17-40 L + 24-105 L IS + 50 f/1.8 STM + 100-400L IS USM + Sigma 150-600 S
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:11 am

New United hangar to feature vintage United sign upon completion at O'Hare.


(enlarge the image behind these TWA L-1011's).

"...the project's crowning touch will come, United sources said, in late September or early October when United returns a massive and historic vintage United logo sign to a new home on the GEM building. The retro-looking United Airlines logo was for many years visible to visitors to O'Hare from atop one of the United hangars.

https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/new ... VWVEp3RCJ9
 
BNAMealer
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:16 am

Is AS and B6 moving to T2 permanent or is this just temporary until the OGT is built and more space is available in T5?
 
emcm541
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:59 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:15 am

TAP to go daily in June 2020 - https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/new ... isbon.html

Too bad they can't find a way to use T1 to further facilitate connections sooner than when the new satellite concourses come online.
 
jcwr56
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:26 am

BNAMealer wrote:
Is AS and B6 moving to T2 permanent or is this just temporary until the OGT is built and more space is available in T5?


It’s temporary, over the next few years you’ll see more terminal moves by carriers.
 
jcwr56
Posts: 979
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:36 am

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:30 am

emcm541 wrote:
TAP to go daily in June 2020 - https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/new ... isbon.html

Too bad they can't find a way to use T1 to further facilitate connections sooner than when the new satellite concourses come online.


Ground time is the driving factor why T1 can’t be used. UA already has widebody gate issues, so adding more outside of a forced accommodation just doesn’t make it feasible.
 
FromGSPtoChi
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:44 am

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:30 pm

The opening of the people mover has been moved to Thanksgiving.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct- ... story.html
 
chidino
Posts: 212
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:36 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:34 am

FromGSPtoChi wrote:
The opening of the people mover has been moved to Thanksgiving.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct- ... story.html


And they paid $3 million for the privilege, after Parsons alleged that a Thanksgiving due date would be "accelerated work"

McGrath said the city “demanded a plan from Parsons to recover the schedule.” Parsons responded by seeking $17.3 million more to cover the accelerated work. The city refused, prompting three mediation sessions this summer that led to a “supplemental settlement agreement” this week in which the city agreed to advance Parsons $3 million and move the deadline for substantial completion to Nov. 18.
 
ZBA2CGX
Posts: 124
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:04 pm

Some more fodder on cleaning up the mess at O'hare
https://www.chicagobusiness.com/david-g ... nded-mayor
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:24 am

Numerous revisions to the ORD FAA diagram issued 15 August

https://aeronav.faa.gov/d-tpp/1909/comp ... ad_cmp.pdf
(Document A is previous diagram, Document B the new issue).

Changes indicate the completion of the de-icing pads associated taxiways on the west side of the field, indications (dotted lines) of construction progressing on 9C/27C; new hot spots HS 3, 4 & 5 south of T's-2 and 3 and west of T-5; in the north half of the field a new Fire Station 2 east of taxiway Mike & the E-W Delta Taxiway completion. Lastly there are some changes to the apron and taxiways east and south of the east end of T-5.
 
italie
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:38 am

Just curiosity getting the better of me, but does anyone know about a RU301 doing a really last minute go-around @ ORD about a month ago? I saw it from 1/2 mile out, and it couldn't have been more than 200ft off the ground before hitting the throttles. Wondering if there was a good story behind it.
 
emcm541
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:01 pm

According to the UA Fleet/Network thread, UA is going to be making some big route announcement today and appears that new ORD routes are included. Rumors on that thread point to this being International Routes.
https://twitter.com/united/status/1164199264165216258
 
TheKennady2
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:00 pm

emcm541 wrote:
According to the UA Fleet/Network thread, UA is going to be making some big route announcement today and appears that new ORD routes are included. Rumors on that thread point to this being International Routes.
https://twitter.com/united/status/1164199264165216258


Im Rubbing my hands together, oh yea
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:03 pm

United just announced daily ORD-ZRH starting in March 2020.

https://twitter.com/united
 
jcwr56
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:05 pm

TheKennady2 wrote:
emcm541 wrote:
According to the UA Fleet/Network thread, UA is going to be making some big route announcement today and appears that new ORD routes are included. Rumors on that thread point to this being International Routes.
https://twitter.com/united/status/1164199264165216258


Im Rubbing my hands together, oh yea


It's not earth shattering.
 
TheKennady2
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:17 pm

jcwr56 wrote:
TheKennady2 wrote:
emcm541 wrote:
According to the UA Fleet/Network thread, UA is going to be making some big route announcement today and appears that new ORD routes are included. Rumors on that thread point to this being International Routes.
https://twitter.com/united/status/1164199264165216258


Im Rubbing my hands together, oh yea


It's not earth shattering.


:( hope its long haul though
 
emcm541
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:27 pm

TheKennady2 wrote:
jcwr56 wrote:
TheKennady2 wrote:

Im Rubbing my hands together, oh yea


It's not earth shattering.


:( hope its long haul though



Here's the announcement via UA's instagram, which is much easier to understand that their official press release
https://www.instagram.com/p/B1eHjeEgrYS ... _copy_link
 
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United787
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:31 pm

Yawn :( I just assumed they already flew to ZRH and effectively already did through LX.
 
TheKennady2
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:34 pm

emcm541 wrote:
TheKennady2 wrote:
jcwr56 wrote:

It's not earth shattering.


:( hope its long haul though



Here's the announcement via UA's instagram, which is much easier to understand that their official press release
https://www.instagram.com/p/B1eHjeEgrYS ... _copy_link


ZRH, my guess is UA is picking up some slack for the SR fleet since they are amost 2 daily during the Summer, i cant see ORD-ZRH being nearly 3 daily.
 
chicawgo
Posts: 443
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:42 pm

TheKennady2 wrote:
emcm541 wrote:
TheKennady2 wrote:

:( hope its long haul though



Here's the announcement via UA's instagram, which is much easier to understand that their official press release
https://www.instagram.com/p/B1eHjeEgrYS ... _copy_link


ZRH, my guess is UA is picking up some slack for the SR fleet since they are amost 2 daily during the Summer, i cant see ORD-ZRH being nearly 3 daily.


Yeah my thought too. LX is already almost 2 daily.
 
jcwr56
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:07 pm

I don't remember if this was posted anywhere...These are ORD based.

https://www.vivaaerobus.com/en/news-roo ... nal-routes
 
dopplerd
Posts: 106
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 7:30 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:08 pm

Anyone know what happened to the TAP 330neo that has been at the M hardstand for the last few days? Looks like something with the right wingtip.
 
Planeboy17
Posts: 439
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:18 am

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:05 pm

jcwr56 wrote:
I don't remember if this was posted anywhere...These are ORD based.

https://www.vivaaerobus.com/en/news-roo ... nal-routes

I was wondering if they would return. I believe they operated 1 weekly CUN flight last winter with some tour group.
I’m glad to see them return but I’m surprised it’s only for a month. That seems odd. I would think they could do GDL year round at least.
 
ORDFlyer99
Posts: 50
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:07 pm

Thought it would be helpful to do a summary of upcoming longhaul service to O'Hare:
Hainan, 2x weekly 788 to Chengdu
United, daily high-J 763 to Zurich
Qantas, 4x weekly 789 to Brisbane
El Al, 3x Weekly 788/789 to Tel Aviv
American, 4x and 5x weekly to Budapest, Prague, and Krakow for a total of 2x daily 788

I think that Hainan to Chengdu is the first interior China route to the interior of the US. 2 weekly seems conservative, but I doubt this route will hold on too long.

As of now, it looks like Swiss is retaining its 12x weekly service to Zurich on a mixture of the 77W and A333 for next summer. I saw the O&D numbers for Geneva a while back, and I can't remember the PDEW, but it would seem that would make more sense than a third daily Zurich flight. Nonetheless, this seems to be UA's first new wide body long haul market from ORD since Brussels in 2010.

Qantas will go up against Air New Zealand to the South Pacific, who themselves are increasing service for 8 weeks in the NH winter to 5x weekly. Exciting to see how the 787 is opening opportunities for these ULH routes.

El Al to Tel Aviv should be a home run, I would not be surprised to see this increased to daily service by 2021/2022.

It is great to see AA continue to add leisure oriented routes to Southern and Eastern Europe. LOT's reaction on the Budapest and Krakow routes should be interesting, given their lower frequencies.

My wishlist is long, but given ORD's amazing international growth in the last few years, it seems doable:
Oslo: seems like an easy 752 add on UA
Manchester: again, seems like an easy 752 add on UA
Osaka: served for many years, this must be one of the largest unserved city pairs
Milan: announced last December on Air Italy, 3 weekly, but I won't be holding my breath for this one
West Africa: Maybe 2x weekly to Addis Ababa via Lome on ET to complete daily service to ADD. They are currently at 5x weekly
Seoul, 2nd carrier or KE upgauge: It would be great to see UA on this route, or KE go to a 748 or A380
Buenos Aires: Could be winter seasonal on UA, and use the a/c from Rome which is not served in the NH winter
Mumabi: Air India
Singapore: With Singapore Airlines A350-900ULR
Berlin: Another AA summer seasonal, leisure oriented route.

These conditions could keep the good times rolling at O'Hare:
https://www.chicagotribune.com/travel/c ... story.html
https://www.chicagobusiness.com/greg-hi ... tpacing-us

Domestically, UA seems to be upping frequencies across the board this fall: PHL, SAN, PHX, PVD are a few examples, and big Florida increases in December. Unsure about AA.


Thoughts?
 
muralir
Posts: 128
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:42 am

To balance that out though, we've also seen some closures this year, e.g. AA's China routes, and Asiana cutting ICN. And UA just announced suspension of ORD-HKG (there's a separate thread about this: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1429891&hilit=united+hkg). While this is likely temporary, the chatter on that thread is that ORD was U/A's weakest HKG flight, and that there's a chance it may be cut permanently.

I'm really curious why ORD is suddenly so weak in Asian markets? I understand it will never compete with LAX/SFO due to both local Asian population size and geographic position for connections. But ORD still is a good connection point for any market east of the Mississippi, which is the majority of the country's population. Why all of a sudden are all these routes underperforming?

At any rate, the terminal expansions can't come soon enough. I suspect the lack of gates is preventing all the small bore feeder routes which are instead being sent to DFW/IAH/DEN and this is putting a damper on adding longhaul routes. Plus the cramped T5 and hassle of towing aircraft makes other airports more attractive. But again, why is Asian capacity being cut so drastically while European capacity is gradually expanding?
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6193
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:56 am

muralir wrote:
To balance that out though, we've also seen some closures this year, e.g. AA's China routes, and Asiana cutting ICN. And UA just announced suspension of ORD-HKG (there's a separate thread about this: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1429891&hilit=united+hkg). While this is likely temporary, the chatter on that thread is that ORD was U/A's weakest HKG flight, and that there's a chance it may be cut permanently.

I'm really curious why ORD is suddenly so weak in Asian markets? I understand it will never compete with LAX/SFO due to both local Asian population size and geographic position for connections. But ORD still is a good connection point for any market east of the Mississippi, which is the majority of the country's population. Why all of a sudden are all these routes underperforming?

At any rate, the terminal expansions can't come soon enough. I suspect the lack of gates is preventing all the small bore feeder routes which are instead being sent to DFW/IAH/DEN and this is putting a damper on adding longhaul routes. Plus the cramped T5 and hassle of towing aircraft makes other airports more attractive. But again, why is Asian capacity being cut so drastically while European capacity is gradually expanding?


It’s simply that ORD was over served to Asia. Something had to give.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
YYZORD
Posts: 507
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:26 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:50 am

Maybe YYZ is taking some ORD asia traffic away, it's become a big competitor with ORD in terms of international traffic and its easier to connect at YYZ compared to ORD.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6193
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:22 pm

YYZORD wrote:
Maybe YYZ is taking some ORD asia traffic away, it's become a big competitor with ORD in terms of international traffic and its easier to connect at YYZ compared to ORD.


Doubt it. They really don’t compete with each other for Asia traffic. The market size between the two shrunk and there are more flights to HKG from the US now.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
jplatts
Posts: 3678
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:18 pm

ORDFlyer99 wrote:
My wishlist is long, but given ORD's amazing international growth in the last few years, it seems doable:
Osaka: served for many years, this must be one of the largest unserved city pairs

Thoughts?


There are business ties between the Kansai (Osaka/Kobe/Kyoto) region of Japan and eastern U.S. cities such as Chicago, Cincinnati, Indianapolis, and New York City, including
(a) Deerfield, IL-based Caterpillar having a major campus near Kobe in Akashi, Japan,
(b) Cincinnati-based P&G having its Japanese headquarters in Kobe,
(c) Indianapolis-based Eli Lilly having its Japanese headquarters in Kobe,
(d) Osaka-based Panasonic having its North American headquarters in Newark, NJ,
and
(e) Osaka-based Sharp having its North American headquarters in Montvale, NJ.

ORD can likely support nonstop service to KIX as there would be some connecting feed from other Eastern U.S. cities such as CVG, IND, EWR, and LGA in addition to O&D to support ORD-KIX nonstop service. In addition, connections to CVG and IND from KIX usually either involve double connections or 1-stop connections that involve long layovers.
 
ORDfan
Posts: 658
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 6:02 am

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:01 am

jplatts wrote:
ORDFlyer99 wrote:
My wishlist is long, but given ORD's amazing international growth in the last few years, it seems doable:
Osaka: served for many years, this must be one of the largest unserved city pairs

Thoughts?


There are business ties between the Kansai (Osaka/Kobe/Kyoto) region of Japan and eastern U.S. cities such as Chicago, Cincinnati, Indianapolis, and New York City, including
(a) Deerfield, IL-based Caterpillar having a major campus near Kobe in Akashi, Japan,
(b) Cincinnati-based P&G having its Japanese headquarters in Kobe,
(c) Indianapolis-based Eli Lilly having its Japanese headquarters in Kobe,
(d) Osaka-based Panasonic having its North American headquarters in Newark, NJ,
and
(e) Osaka-based Sharp having its North American headquarters in Montvale, NJ.

ORD can likely support nonstop service to KIX as there would be some connecting feed from other Eastern U.S. cities such as CVG, IND, EWR, and LGA in addition to O&D to support ORD-KIX nonstop service. In addition, connections to CVG and IND from KIX usually either involve double connections or 1-stop connections that involve long layovers.


Will add Komatsu to that list...currently the Americas HQ is in Rolling Meadows, but they are moving (and growing) downtown soon. They are the #2 heavy equipment maker in the world behind CAT. It's no coincidence they are here.

Also plenty of Japanese freight forwarders and shipping lines still in the Elk Grove, Rosemont, Chicago NW burbs....too many to list. Nippon in particular seems like it can't add enough space fast enough, which is crazy to me in this trade environment.
 
ORDfan
Posts: 658
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 6:02 am

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:15 am

ORDFlyer99 wrote:
Thought it would be helpful to do a summary of upcoming longhaul service to O'Hare:
Hainan, 2x weekly 788 to Chengdu
United, daily high-J 763 to Zurich
Qantas, 4x weekly 789 to Brisbane
El Al, 3x Weekly 788/789 to Tel Aviv
American, 4x and 5x weekly to Budapest, Prague, and Krakow for a total of 2x daily 788

I think that Hainan to Chengdu is the first interior China route to the interior of the US. 2 weekly seems conservative, but I doubt this route will hold on too long.

As of now, it looks like Swiss is retaining its 12x weekly service to Zurich on a mixture of the 77W and A333 for next summer. I saw the O&D numbers for Geneva a while back, and I can't remember the PDEW, but it would seem that would make more sense than a third daily Zurich flight. Nonetheless, this seems to be UA's first new wide body long haul market from ORD since Brussels in 2010.

Qantas will go up against Air New Zealand to the South Pacific, who themselves are increasing service for 8 weeks in the NH winter to 5x weekly. Exciting to see how the 787 is opening opportunities for these ULH routes.

El Al to Tel Aviv should be a home run, I would not be surprised to see this increased to daily service by 2021/2022.

It is great to see AA continue to add leisure oriented routes to Southern and Eastern Europe. LOT's reaction on the Budapest and Krakow routes should be interesting, given their lower frequencies.

My wishlist is long, but given ORD's amazing international growth in the last few years, it seems doable:
Oslo: seems like an easy 752 add on UA
Manchester: again, seems like an easy 752 add on UA
Osaka: served for many years, this must be one of the largest unserved city pairs
Milan: announced last December on Air Italy, 3 weekly, but I won't be holding my breath for this one
West Africa: Maybe 2x weekly to Addis Ababa via Lome on ET to complete daily service to ADD. They are currently at 5x weekly
Seoul, 2nd carrier or KE upgauge: It would be great to see UA on this route, or KE go to a 748 or A380
Buenos Aires: Could be winter seasonal on UA, and use the a/c from Rome which is not served in the NH winter
Mumabi: Air India
Singapore: With Singapore Airlines A350-900ULR
Berlin: Another AA summer seasonal, leisure oriented route.

These conditions could keep the good times rolling at O'Hare:
https://www.chicagotribune.com/travel/c ... story.html
https://www.chicagobusiness.com/greg-hi ... tpacing-us

Domestically, UA seems to be upping frequencies across the board this fall: PHL, SAN, PHX, PVD are a few examples, and big Florida increases in December. Unsure about AA.


Thoughts?


Awesome recap, thanks for sharing and taking the time to write this up. Really helps keep things in perspective about the massive overall growth trend.

Will strongly echo your thoughts on the UA ZRH flight - seems totally unnecessary to me with all the capacity (and excellent service) LX is currently offering to ORD. I have been hoping (and crying) for non-stop to GVA for years, and it amazes me that that UA wouldn't pull the trigger on that.

There is so much overlap in the commodity industry between GVA/CHI, that its crazy that GVA had not happened 20 years ago. I think LX doesn't want it to happen, and while I love LX, I don't always want to connect to ZRH for the hop to GVA, particularly on the way home. ADM alone could fill the J class cabin on that several times/week, let alone CAT, CJ, CME, Deere, Tate&Lyle, Barry Callebaut, Mondelez, Olam, Evraz, ArcelorMittal, EON, Ryerson, etc etc. These guys are some serious FF.

I'm just talking out loud, but would love to see those GVA O&D numbers. C'mon UA..if you need any more leads, please PM me. Let's make GVA happen!
 
emcm541
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:59 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:41 pm

Reported earlier on the UA Fleet/Network thread and now on the UA Facebook:

United to open a 787 Dreamliner base at O'Hare in 2020

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/news/un ... ut-chicago
https://www.facebook.com/United/videos/343209273227001/
 
xorrygva
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:32 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:43 pm

ORDfan wrote:

I'm just talking out loud, but would love to see those GVA O&D numbers. C'mon UA..if you need any more leads, please PM me. Let's make GVA happen!


Here there are :D
This topic is being discussed on a French forum too and one participant has prepared these stats. Also covers BOS. Note that the GVA figures can probably be increased by 20-30% following the opening of a direct flight as it was the case with other recent openings.

https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/859c15_f1df5ff2bb034159943d53ddb7564d1b.pdf
 
TheKennady2
Posts: 140
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:09 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:23 pm

emcm541 wrote:
Reported earlier on the UA Fleet/Network thread and now on the UA Facebook:

United to open a 787 Dreamliner base at O'Hare in 2020

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/news/un ... ut-chicago
https://www.facebook.com/United/videos/343209273227001/


Good, and Maybe they Can Bring Back HKG in time with the dreamliners
 
Kbud
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:18 am

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:39 pm

emcm541 wrote:
Reported earlier on the UA Fleet/Network thread and now on the UA Facebook:

United to open a 787 Dreamliner base at O'Hare in 2020

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/news/un ... ut-chicago
https://www.facebook.com/United/videos/343209273227001/

I am curious to see what transpires with their widebody fleet at ORD. For years the "public" strategy was that UA was going to replace their 777s (some older 774 routes too) at ORD with their future A350s. The 787s were going to be based at SFO, LAX, IAH, Newark, DEN and IAD and the 77W would be based out of SFO and Newark. I wonder A) if this is a change in their strategy based on competitive pressure (ie - AA using the 787s exclusively at ORD), B) if this was always in the cards for ORD and C) will ORD still be a base for the A350.

Nevertheless it will be good so finally see some new widebodies at ORD for UA. The 767s and some of the 777s are getting up there in years.
 
User avatar
yeogeo
Posts: 1531
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:47 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:54 pm

ORDfan wrote:
ORDFlyer99 wrote:
Thought it would be helpful to do a summary of upcoming longhaul service to O'Hare:
Hainan, 2x weekly 788 to Chengdu
United, daily high-J 763 to Zurich
Qantas, 4x weekly 789 to Brisbane
El Al, 3x Weekly 788/789 to Tel Aviv
American, 4x and 5x weekly to Budapest, Prague, and Krakow for a total of 2x daily 788...


Awesome recap, thanks for sharing and taking the time to write this up.


I agree! & thanks ORDfan!

...as far as the inauguration of the UA ZRH route I detect some disappointment here but I think its obvious: its where the money is - can't blame them for that.

Kbud wrote:
emcm541 wrote:
Reported earlier on the UA Fleet/Network thread and now on the UA Facebook:

United to open a 787 Dreamliner base at O'Hare in 2020... it will be good so finally see some new widebodies at ORD for UA. The 767s and some of the 777s are getting up there in years.


Also agree!! Wonder what other routes besides those announced to begin in Spring 2020 (BRU FRA MUC) might be in the works? Any ideas?
 
muralir
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 3:44 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:38 pm

xorrygva wrote:
ORDfan wrote:

I'm just talking out loud, but would love to see those GVA O&D numbers. C'mon UA..if you need any more leads, please PM me. Let's make GVA happen!


Here there are :D
This topic is being discussed on a French forum too and one participant has prepared these stats. Also covers BOS. Note that the GVA figures can probably be increased by 20-30% following the opening of a direct flight as it was the case with other recent openings.

https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/859c15_f1df5ff2bb034159943d53ddb7564d1b.pdf


Thanks for that link! I'm actually floored by the London numbers. To LHR, Boston has twice the PDEW of Chicago?? That's really surprising. I realize Boston has a big financial sector, but it's not NY, and Chicago is a much bigger city overall. I'm just really surprised by that...

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