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_AA_777_MAN
Posts: 171
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:21 pm

Planeboy17 wrote:
muralir wrote:
Apparently O'hare now has a direct cargo flight to SYD:
https://www.aircargoweek.com/db-schenke ... y-flights/

I'm curious, is this a nonstop, or a "direct" with a fuel stop? Since it's freight, I'm guessing it's the latter, but the timing is pretty tight to include a fuel stop. And also, if it's a fuel stop, why wouldn't they just make it a regular stop to pickup/dropoff more cargo?

At any rate, this definitely speaks to the cargo demand for a direct ORD-SYD flight, which makes the economics for a passenger service even more compelling. Fingers crossed... :-)

Nice find.
Your right, there are some odd things about this article. Besides the direct, nonstop question, I’m confused how they don’t mention who the carrier is. They state DB Schenker but I believe that’s the freight forwarder? It’s certainly not the air carrier. Also, I’m pretty sure there is not a 777-300F yet.
Just seems like a lot of missing info there.
P.S. there is already a cargo service to SYD from ORD now operated by Atlas on behalf of Qantas via HNL.



Well it looks like it is Emirates Skycargo service, as per the article the flight is supposed to depart sunday at 22:45 and EK9252 had a scheduled departure of 22:45 and flew ORD-HNL-SYD operating with 77F. Aircraft reg was A6-EFK.
 
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United787
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:59 pm

I have mentioned this before that based on the little information that has come out from the City, it seemed like the process for T5 was much further along. Yet, we have a ground breaking ceremony today for the expansion of T5 and we still no nothing about who the architect is, what the expansion will look like, how much it will cost, who the contractor is... I am utterly shocked at the shroud over the Dept. of Aviation.

Where is the media invoking the freedom of information act? This is on top of the 5 gate expansion to AA's concourse L that was completed last year in which no information was released. We still don't know who the architect was and had no idea what it was going to look like until it was done.

All of the secrecy around the T2 Global Terminal project selection process is warranted based on the track record of the City and the Dept. of Aviation so far. It seems like even the Daley administration was more forthcoming than this.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/col ... story.html
 
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United787
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:18 pm

A little searching and I found what I was looking for:

http://www.ord21.com/About/Pages/Happening-Now.aspx

O’Hare 21 calls for significant improvements to Terminal 5 by extending Concourse M to the east and adding ten new gates. The $1.2 billion expansion will make way for new passenger amenities, airline lounges, concessions spaces, and the capacity to serve more travelers more comfortably. Terminal 5’s enhancements, designed by Muller & Muller, maintain the integrity of the terminal’s original architecture. The Terminal 5 expansion groundbreaking took place in March 2019 and the first completed features will be done in 2021.

These improvements include:

25 percent more gate capacity to improve efficiency and reduce delays
Growing the total building area by approximately 350,000 square feet
Transforming Terminal 5 into a mixed domestic and international arrivals terminal for use by foreign as well as domestic carriers, including a permanent home for Delta and the Sky Team Alliance
70 percent increase in premium passenger airline lounge space
15 new concessions brands, which will elevate dining and shopping
Expanding the security screening checkpoint and consolidating customs to process passengers from a single, streamlined location
Enlarging, reconfiguring, and refurbishing interior spaces and integrating new furniture and new technology throughout the facility
Additional future improvements include:

Replacing 25-year-old baggage handling with a new state-of-the-art system, with baggage ID
A new parking garage to replace existing surface parking, which will yield 1,600 additional spaces adjacent to the terminal building
Multiple roadway enhancements to increase lanes and alleviate traffic bottleneck to and from O’Hare
Expanded curbside area to enhance drop off and to help passengers more easily traverse between Terminals 1, 2, 3
After a groundbreaking in March 2019, the Terminal 5 extended concourse is expected to be completed in early 2021; new concessions and lounges are expected to open in late 2021; and the new baggage handling system will come online by the end of 2022.


Image

Can't figure out why the image isn't posting... I used the img and /img code with the brackets of course...
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:35 pm

United787 wrote:
A little searching and I found what I was looking for:
Image

Can't figure out why the image isn't posting...


It's appearing for me.. Thanks for the sleuthing, United787 - It's great to see what's in store!
 
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United787
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:37 pm

Hard to tell in the rendering but it looks like M18 stays as is but M19, M20 & M21 get reconfigured. The new expansion gates are M22, M23, M24, M25, M26 & M27, a net gain of 6 gates which would be approx. 28% increase??? Wondering if they will have some additional hard stands like they do now?

Also wondering if the "expanded curbside area drop off" will be way down by the expansion or up at the original terminal. Would be nice to see a plan.
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:40 pm

United787 wrote:
A little searching and I found what I was looking for:


Image


Just noticed new APM cars - they've got the details down! ..and the numerous gates with double jet bridges and a new tower. Interesting!
Last edited by yeogeo on Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
elbandgeek
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:41 pm

United787 wrote:
Hard to tell in the rendering but it looks like M18 stays as is but M19, M20 & M21 get reconfigured. The new expansion gates are M22, M23, M24, M25, M26 & M27, a net gain of 6 gates which would be approx. 28% increase??? Wondering if they will have some additional hard stands like they do now?

Also wondering if the "expanded curbside area drop off" will be way down by the expansion or up at the original terminal. Would be nice to see a plan.

Prior renders showed M1-5 being reconfigured for narrowbodies so I'm guessing the rest of the net gains will come from that.
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:46 pm

United787 wrote:
Wondering if they will have some additional hard stands like they do now?


The O'Hare21 site has always shown some hard stands to the east of the T-5 extension:

Image

http://www.ord21.com/SiteCollectionImag ... 5%20sw.jpg
 
sircygnus
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:51 pm

Multiple roadway enhancements to increase lanes and alleviate traffic bottleneck to and from O’Hare


It will be interesting to see what this means. I could see it confined to Arrival and Departure level lanes from the terminal to West Ohare Avenue (ramps to 190), but what would be even better would be to clean up the pavement striping/arrow/X mess on the right lane of EB 190 between Bessie Coleman and the SB ramp to Tri-State (294). That is always such a mess.
 
chicawgo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:13 pm

United787 wrote:
A little searching and I found what I was looking for:

http://www.ord21.com/About/Pages/Happening-Now.aspx

O’Hare 21 calls for significant improvements to Terminal 5 by extending Concourse M to the east and adding ten new gates. The $1.2 billion expansion will make way for new passenger amenities, airline lounges, concessions spaces, and the capacity to serve more travelers more comfortably. Terminal 5’s enhancements, designed by Muller & Muller, maintain the integrity of the terminal’s original architecture. The Terminal 5 expansion groundbreaking took place in March 2019 and the first completed features will be done in 2021.

These improvements include:

25 percent more gate capacity to improve efficiency and reduce delays
Growing the total building area by approximately 350,000 square feet
Transforming Terminal 5 into a mixed domestic and international arrivals terminal for use by foreign as well as domestic carriers, including a permanent home for Delta and the Sky Team Alliance
70 percent increase in premium passenger airline lounge space
15 new concessions brands, which will elevate dining and shopping
Expanding the security screening checkpoint and consolidating customs to process passengers from a single, streamlined location
Enlarging, reconfiguring, and refurbishing interior spaces and integrating new furniture and new technology throughout the facility
Additional future improvements include:

Replacing 25-year-old baggage handling with a new state-of-the-art system, with baggage ID
A new parking garage to replace existing surface parking, which will yield 1,600 additional spaces adjacent to the terminal building
Multiple roadway enhancements to increase lanes and alleviate traffic bottleneck to and from O’Hare
Expanded curbside area to enhance drop off and to help passengers more easily traverse between Terminals 1, 2, 3
After a groundbreaking in March 2019, the Terminal 5 extended concourse is expected to be completed in early 2021; new concessions and lounges are expected to open in late 2021; and the new baggage handling system will come online by the end of 2022.


Image

Can't figure out why the image isn't posting... I used the img and /img code with the brackets of course...


Also exciting and previously unknown was that they're adding 3 A380 gates to Concourse L!! :D
 
ORDfan101
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:30 pm

 
gabik001
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:11 pm

yeogeo wrote:


gabik001 wrote:
LAE2831/2871 (departure as LATAM Cargo Colombia) sometime after 9am but usually between 11am and 1pm. Departure is tricky because it varies..I already have [photographed] it twice. Trying to catch old c/s.


These are 767-300's, correct? Do you submit these to A-net? I'd like to see them!

Yes, its B763F with winglets. Landed today around 9.45am. Usually they uloading a/c at NE cargo so have to stop by and take a ground shot.
I haven't uploaded any photos on a.net since 2016. I got over 1k shots in a.net d/b. Have to find some time and start to upload them again but first find a way to do correct postprocessing once camera changed, lens changed and computer also changed...
Canon 50D gripped + Canon 70D + 17-40 L + 24-105 L IS + 50 f/1.8 STM + 100-400L IS USM + Sigma 150-600 S
 
Fargo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:40 pm

So the lingering questions about ORD landing a TLV flight and the T5 expansion finally got answered this week. Awesome!

I was wondering though, we know DL is going to move to T5 when this expansion is completed, but will all the unaffiliated carriers (NK, B6, AS, etc) that haven't already moved move as well? Also, will the new DL Sky Club be located within the expansion or will it be in the existing section?
 
Planeboy17
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:40 pm

_AA_777_MAN wrote:
Planeboy17 wrote:
muralir wrote:
Apparently O'hare now has a direct cargo flight to SYD:
https://www.aircargoweek.com/db-schenke ... y-flights/

I'm curious, is this a nonstop, or a "direct" with a fuel stop? Since it's freight, I'm guessing it's the latter, but the timing is pretty tight to include a fuel stop. And also, if it's a fuel stop, why wouldn't they just make it a regular stop to pickup/dropoff more cargo?

At any rate, this definitely speaks to the cargo demand for a direct ORD-SYD flight, which makes the economics for a passenger service even more compelling. Fingers crossed... :-)

Nice find.
Your right, there are some odd things about this article. Besides the direct, nonstop question, I’m confused how they don’t mention who the carrier is. They state DB Schenker but I believe that’s the freight forwarder? It’s certainly not the air carrier. Also, I’m pretty sure there is not a 777-300F yet.
Just seems like a lot of missing info there.
P.S. there is already a cargo service to SYD from ORD now operated by Atlas on behalf of Qantas via HNL.



Well it looks like it is Emirates Skycargo service, as per the article the flight is supposed to depart sunday at 22:45 and EK9252 had a scheduled departure of 22:45 and flew ORD-HNL-SYD operating with 77F. Aircraft reg was A6-EFK.

Thanks for the information. Glad to see Emirates Cargo back on a scheduled route at ORD.
I guess that answers the nonstop and 773F questions.
So there will now be 2 cargo flights to SYD.
 
Planeboy17
Posts: 312
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:58 pm

elbandgeek wrote:
United787 wrote:
Hard to tell in the rendering but it looks like M18 stays as is but M19, M20 & M21 get reconfigured. The new expansion gates are M22, M23, M24, M25, M26 & M27, a net gain of 6 gates which would be approx. 28% increase??? Wondering if they will have some additional hard stands like they do now?

Also wondering if the "expanded curbside area drop off" will be way down by the expansion or up at the original terminal. Would be nice to see a plan.

Prior renders showed M1-5 being reconfigured for narrowbodies so I'm guessing the rest of the net gains will come from that.

This must be correct because when I count the gates from the renders from the original release I come up with only 26 total gates to the end. However I only counted from M8 because the is verbiage blocking the west side of the terminal so it’s difficult to see the narrow body gates there. The press release states a gain of 10 gates so there must be some narrow body gains in the single digit gates.
And by 26, I mean from, and including, M8 to the east end.
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:35 pm

Fargo wrote:
Will the new DL Sky Club be located within the expansion or will it be in the existing section?


"The $1.2 billion Terminal 5 redo calls for a 350,000-square-foot expansion of the terminal that will include 15 new dining and retail locations and a 70 percent increase in premium lounge space, including a new Delta Sky Club."

https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/new ... j=87351241
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:42 pm

chicawgo wrote:
Also exciting and previously unknown was that they're adding 3 A380 gates to Concourse L!! :D


I don't know if I'd call them that - I've boarded not only A380's but also 747's and 777's in double jet bridge gates before.
 
Fargo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:43 pm

yeogeo wrote:
Fargo wrote:
Will the new DL Sky Club be located within the expansion or will it be in the existing section?


"The $1.2 billion Terminal 5 redo calls for a 350,000-square-foot expansion of the terminal that will include 15 new dining and retail locations and a 70 percent increase in premium lounge space, including a new Delta Sky Club."

https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/new ... j=87351241


Ah, didn't see that article. Thank you!

While I assume the Sky Club will be ready by 2021 to coincide with DL moving over, will all of the retail/dining and lounge space be done by then? I thought the T5 expansion was a two part operation, the first being this physical expansion, but the second phase being a complete renovation/right-sizing of the existing structure once the Global Terminal opens and UA/AA/SA/OW carriers move out.
 
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United787
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:41 am

It seems that the interior renovations to the existing T5 are included in this project... but it could be split into phases.

FYI, there is another rendering of the T5 terminal expansion here.

https://chicago.curbed.com/2019/3/20/18 ... nstruction

I like it but would be nice to see some interior photos.

Image
 
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piedmontf284000
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:56 am

United787 wrote:

I like it but would be nice to see some interior photos.



Image


IMO, a major problem with this new expansion of the Int'l Terminal is the lack of a CTA subway station in proximity to T5. International arrivals have to double back to other terminals to get to the CTA station which is then another haul from the APM station. I feel like the city could have easily moved the CTA tracks that run along I-190 in front of T5, then under the proposed garage (similar to the renovated MDW orange line station) and built a secondary airport station for T5 passengers. I think it would be a huge benefit because soon DL, NK, F9 will also be using the terminal in addition to Int'l carriers.

Also, I feel like the design left a lot of dead space between the APM tracks and the building structure. It seems like a departure level could have been built over the APM tracks with a secondary entrance being built to utilize that empty space with enough square footage for ticket counters and another security checkpoint. This would have helped those boarding at the southwest expansion gates from having to walk a mile to get to their gates.
 
chidino
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:45 am

piedmontf284000 wrote:
IMO, a major problem with this new expansion of the Int'l Terminal is the lack of a CTA subway station in proximity to T5. International arrivals have to double back to other terminals to get to the CTA station which is then another haul from the APM station. I feel like the city could have easily moved the CTA tracks that run along I-190 in front of T5, then under the proposed garage (similar to the renovated MDW orange line station) and built a secondary airport station for T5 passengers. I think it would be a huge benefit because soon DL, NK, F9 will also be using the terminal in addition to Int'l carriers.

Also, I feel like the design left a lot of dead space between the APM tracks and the building structure. It seems like a departure level could have been built over the APM tracks with a secondary entrance being built to utilize that empty space with enough square footage for ticket counters and another security checkpoint. This would have helped those boarding at the southwest expansion gates from having to walk a mile to get to their gates.


First, "easily move the CTA tracks"? How? They have to stay attached to rest of the Blue Line, remember. ;) Try to do it without disrupting I-190 and everything else but not spend excessive $$ and you've got trouble. I sincerely don't think you could hit T5 and then route it back to get into the median again in order to enter the existing station.

Remember, it's not the "International Terminal" anymore, just T5 (and we'll see if that name sticks), and with the new leases, it's up to Delta, the LCCs, and non *A/OW int'ls, since it's their dime. They knew the CTA station was back at the core when they signed the deal. And that's key, for if they were going to move any tracks, the carriers would be in on the funding. But I very much agree on that dead corner at the SE; that's going to be a brutal walk even if you're just catching the APM.
 
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kordcj
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:36 am

piedmontf284000 wrote:
United787 wrote:

I like it but would be nice to see some interior photos.



Image


IMO, a major problem with this new expansion of the Int'l Terminal is the lack of a CTA subway station in proximity to T5. International arrivals have to double back to other terminals to get to the CTA station which is then another haul from the APM station. I feel like the city could have easily moved the CTA tracks that run along I-190 in front of T5, then under the proposed garage (similar to the renovated MDW orange line station) and built a secondary airport station for T5 passengers. I think it would be a huge benefit because soon DL, NK, F9 will also be using the terminal in addition to Int'l carriers.

Also, I feel like the design left a lot of dead space between the APM tracks and the building structure. It seems like a departure level could have been built over the APM tracks with a secondary entrance being built to utilize that empty space with enough square footage for ticket counters and another security checkpoint. This would have helped those boarding at the southwest expansion gates from having to walk a mile to get to their gates.


Is the narrow corridor of the existing terminal going to exist in the expanded area? From the rendering seems like a lot of widebodies are going to be on the new expansion and the original terminal will be resized for domestic ops. If I recall, a huge problem is lack of seat space at each gate in the existing terminal.
I’m a little shocked that the city isn’t putting ticket counters or an entrance/exit in this expansion, that’s quite a hike from the main T5 entrance. I suppose with some airlines leaving, there should be plenty of ticket counter space in the original space.
The most obvious proof for intelligent life in the universe is that they haven't tried to contact us.
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:16 pm

gabik001 wrote:
LAE2831/2871 (departure as LATAM Cargo Colombia) [arrives ORD] sometime after 9am but usually between 11am and 1pm. Departure is tricky because it varies..I already have [photographed] it twice. Trying to catch old c/s... its B763F with winglets. Landed today around 9.45am. Usually they uloading a/c at NE cargo so have to stop by and take a ground shot.


This is the aircraft that flew in and out of O'Hare yesterday (20 March), shown here at FRA.


routing: SCL-MIA-ORD-MIA-ANF (Antofagasta, Chile)
Image
Maps generated by the Great Circle Mapper - copyright © Karl L. Swartz.
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=SCL-MIA-ORD-MIA-ANF

Interesting that on the north-bound flight, Miami was a diversion, with a stop there of less than 30 minutes.
Wondering if they're finding the non-stop to O'Hare a challenge.
 
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United787
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:12 pm

piedmontf284000 wrote:
IMO, a major problem with this new expansion of the Int'l Terminal is the lack of a CTA subway station in proximity to T5. International arrivals have to double back to other terminals to get to the CTA station which is then another haul from the APM station. I feel like the city could have easily moved the CTA tracks that run along I-190 in front of T5, then under the proposed garage (similar to the renovated MDW orange line station) and built a secondary airport station for T5 passengers. I think it would be a huge benefit because soon DL, NK, F9 will also be using the terminal in addition to Int'l carriers.


That is an issue for sure, but one that DL, NK & F9 knew about when they signed up for this deal. Would it be any worse than what DL has at JFK and that seems to appease New Yorkers just fine. No different than what is being built at LAX.

That said, a T5 station would be great but not cheap. The renovation of the CTA Red Line station at Wilson was $200 million and required track rerouting. The new CTA Green Line stations at Cermak and Damen are said to be $50 million each.

I think the most realistic option would be a new CTA/ATS station where they cross just north of the ATS maintenance facilities. It would eliminate backtracking for T5 but still be indirect. It is a straight section of track for both. I think it would cost $75-100 million for the combo station and would require some work on I-90 to make room for it. I am sure directly connecting the two mass transit systems would have some benefits too. Worth it? Not sure?

If you wanted to reroute the CTA train to T5 to create a station with direct terminal access, I think you could easily add another $100 million for what would probably be 1 mile plus of elevated track.

IMHO, it is probably more likely that T5 gets its own stop on the Musk Express, assuming that happens...
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:50 pm

Here's another try at displaying the other angle of the T-5 addition from the Curbed Chicago article that United787 posted:
Image

https://chicago.curbed.com/2019/3/20/18 ... nstruction
 
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United787
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:35 pm

yeogeo wrote:
Here's another try at displaying the other angle of the T-5 addition from the Curbed Chicago article that United787 posted:


So the first photo I posted of the view looking NW doesn't display on my Chrome and either does your recent post of the NE view... but they do Internet Explorer.

The second photo I posted of the view looking NE doesn't display on Internet Explorer but it does on Chrome...

not sure what the hell is going on...
 
chicawgo
Posts: 381
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:45 pm

piedmontf284000 wrote:
United787 wrote:

I like it but would be nice to see some interior photos.



Image


IMO, a major problem with this new expansion of the Int'l Terminal is the lack of a CTA subway station in proximity to T5. International arrivals have to double back to other terminals to get to the CTA station which is then another haul from the APM station. I feel like the city could have easily moved the CTA tracks that run along I-190 in front of T5, then under the proposed garage (similar to the renovated MDW orange line station) and built a secondary airport station for T5 passengers. I think it would be a huge benefit because soon DL, NK, F9 will also be using the terminal in addition to Int'l carriers.

Also, I feel like the design left a lot of dead space between the APM tracks and the building structure. It seems like a departure level could have been built over the APM tracks with a secondary entrance being built to utilize that empty space with enough square footage for ticket counters and another security checkpoint. This would have helped those boarding at the southwest expansion gates from having to walk a mile to get to their gates.


The CTA station is pretty much directly under the T2 ATS station. It’s not a far walk at all.

Having urban public transit to airport and then taking a people mover two stops is still at par or better than most airports around the world
 
EWRandMDW
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:47 pm

chicawgo wrote:
piedmontf284000 wrote:
United787 wrote:

I like it but would be nice to see some interior photos.



Image


IMO, a major problem with this new expansion of the Int'l Terminal is the lack of a CTA subway station in proximity to T5. International arrivals have to double back to other terminals to get to the CTA station which is then another haul from the APM station. I feel like the city could have easily moved the CTA tracks that run along I-190 in front of T5, then under the proposed garage (similar to the renovated MDW orange line station) and built a secondary airport station for T5 passengers. I think it would be a huge benefit because soon DL, NK, F9 will also be using the terminal in addition to Int'l carriers.

Also, I feel like the design left a lot of dead space between the APM tracks and the building structure. It seems like a departure level could have been built over the APM tracks with a secondary entrance being built to utilize that empty space with enough square footage for ticket counters and another security checkpoint. This would have helped those boarding at the southwest expansion gates from having to walk a mile to get to their gates.


The CTA station is pretty much directly under the T2 ATS station. It’s not a far walk at all.

Having urban public transit to airport and then taking a people mover two stops is still at par or better than most airports around the world



I wonder if it would be practical to run a single or double track spur from the Rosemont CTA yard area between Rosemont station and Terminal 5 as a 2- or 4-car shuttle connecting to the Blue line?
 
emcm541
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:34 pm

yeogeo wrote:
Here's another try at displaying the other angle of the T-5 addition from the Curbed Chicago article that United787 posted:
Image

https://chicago.curbed.com/2019/3/20/18 ... nstruction


This photo rendering is showing a ton of space between the ATS tracks and the terminal extension. Seems like a waste. One would think this would be an opportunity to build out there to add more club/lounge space or retail options, or every a wider concourse area for seating.
 
chicawgo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:39 pm

emcm541 wrote:
yeogeo wrote:
Here's another try at displaying the other angle of the T-5 addition from the Curbed Chicago article that United787 posted:
Image

https://chicago.curbed.com/2019/3/20/18 ... nstruction


This photo rendering is showing a ton of space between the ATS tracks and the terminal extension. Seems like a waste. One would think this would be an opportunity to build out there to add more club/lounge space or retail options, or every a wider concourse area for seating.


Wouldn't it be great if they actually thought outside the box and did something really unique. A conservatory with retractable roof, aviary, bellagio style fountain, etc. Something that would create buzz and make people want to connect in chicago.
 
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yeogeo
Posts: 1180
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:50 pm

El Al ORD start date and schedule is out:

"Following schedule is effective 29MAR20.

LY023 TLV1200 – 1630ORD 789 27
LY023 TLV1200 – 1630ORD 788 4

LY024 ORD1850 – 1410+1TLV 789 27
LY024 ORD1850 – 1410+1TLV 788 4

Week of 22MAR20 is operated by 787-8 only."


https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... e-20190324
 
Galvan316
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 5:43 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:00 pm

I have heard rumblings (actually on this site) that Ukraine International was looking at going to ORD. Is this true? Does the 763 have the legs to fly Kiev - Chicago or would it have to be on a 772?
ORD and MDW is where youll find Me!
 
ORDfan
Posts: 547
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:58 am

emcm541 wrote:
yeogeo wrote:
Here's another try at displaying the other angle of the T-5 addition from the Curbed Chicago article that United787 posted:
Image

https://chicago.curbed.com/2019/3/20/18 ... nstruction


This photo rendering is showing a ton of space between the ATS tracks and the terminal extension. Seems like a waste. One would think this would be an opportunity to build out there to add more club/lounge space or retail options, or every a wider concourse area for seating.


Totally agree! I was thinking the same thing.... a lot of wasted space there with this design. Seems like a missed opportunity to do something a little more robust.

Additionally, I'm not really liking the interior rendering: the seating area in the photo seems small and poorly-defined, and that communal stadium-seating (or whatever its called) is such a fad, that the rendering already seems dated (2013 called). Does anyone really want to sit where someone's shoes were likely to have been? Also, I do like a carpeted seating area - I think it takes a little stress of the feet when traveling, and seems a little more calming (IMO)...not the walkways, but the seating area themselves.

Hope the rendering is just one guy's guess, and that the new T5 integrates better with the original T5.
 
chidino
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:12 am

ORDfan wrote:
Additionally, I'm not really liking the interior rendering: the seating area in the photo seems small and poorly-defined, and that communal stadium-seating (or whatever its called) is such a fad, that the rendering already seems dated (2013 called). Does anyone really want to sit where someone's shoes were likely to have been? Also, I do like a carpeted seating area - I think it takes a little stress of the feet when traveling, and seems a little more calming (IMO)...not the walkways, but the seating area themselves.

Hope the rendering is just one guy's guess, and that the new T5 integrates better with the original T5.


I agree wholeheartedly. Problem is, the city's identifying Muller + Muller as the architects, and it's featured prominently on M+M's webpage. As well it should: they've basically been Rahm's internal architects for things like the lakefront path flyover bridge, Riverwalk master planning, and whatever "visioning" for the Blue Line is (other than unlikely to get built). So Mr. Great Architecture Rahm is handing M+M a $1.2 billion project based on their vast experience with... the MDW security expansion. Sure, that's the same. I have the distinct feeling those renderings may actually be the proposal (God, I hope I'm wrong). Hopefully, Kamin will weigh in publicly and embarrass them -- although that may delay things. :roll:

On a happier note: everybody who gets the City bid notices saw this already, but the (somewhat dim) light bulb over my head didn't go off until tonight. As of March 11, the city put the 9R/27L extension out for bid, which with Package 3 for 9C/27C (went out 9/25/18) would complete the OMP, wouldn't it? I know it's been said before, but that is a really staggering achievement. Worthy of the Chicago of my/our boasting.
 
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United787
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:41 pm

chidino wrote:
ORDfan wrote:
On a happier note: everybody who gets the City bid notices saw this already, but the (somewhat dim) light bulb over my head didn't go off until tonight. As of March 11, the city put the 9R/27L extension out for bid, which with Package 3 for 9C/27C (went out 9/25/18) would complete the OMP, wouldn't it? I know it's been said before, but that is a really staggering achievement. Worthy of the Chicago of my/our boasting.


Definitely worth boasting about. IMHO, the OMP project is not appreciated enough on A-Net. It is the singular most significant aviation project in the US since the opening of DEN in 1995. It is not only a benefit to Chicago but to the entire US network. The O'Hare 21 terminal project that is just getting started would not be possible without the OMP.
 
emcm541
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:51 pm

The Sun Times is reporting that Jeanne Gang's Studio ORD will be designing the New Global Terminal.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/business/a ... erminal-2/
 
icareflies
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:55 pm

Great the city picked my favorite plan for ORD with Studio Gang. ORD is going to be amazing.
AF777-300ER and 9W737-900 - Love it! Love it
 
ual763
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Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 11:46 am

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:55 pm

emcm541 wrote:
The Sun Times is reporting that Jeanne Gang's Studio ORD will be designing the New Global Terminal.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/business/a ... erminal-2/


Just about to post this! Excellent pick in my opinion! Do we know who is the runner up? Because the runner up gets to design the island concourses correct?
From flying to the NOTAM office
 
chidino
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:21 pm

ual763 wrote:
Just about to post this! Excellent pick in my opinion! Do we know who is the runner up? Because the runner up gets to design the island concourses correct?


From Greg Hinz in Crain's: "Notably, the city did not yet name a designer for a smaller prize: an architect to work with Gang and build satellite terminals to the west of the existing Terminal 1. Officials said only, “In the coming months, a second team will be selected from the remaining four finalists” for that work"

My prediction for the satellites is SOM -- almost like Gang's design with the wood and trees and stuff. Compliments well, and since SOM has been involved in overall ORD21 planning since the beginning and designs airports like crazy (groundbreaking for their new MCI was this week) they should have working plans sooner rather than later.
 
Scarebus34
Posts: 343
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:32 pm

Here is the video of StudiORDs proposal:

https://youtu.be/fYo2TDpCsCg
Last edited by Scarebus34 on Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
chidino
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:34 pm

FWIW, the city also published the results of the public poll:

Which design provides the best passenger experience at O’Hare, including amenities, accessibility, and aesthetics?
City Residents All Respondents
Team 1: Fentress-EXP-Brook-Garza 8% 11%
Team 2: Foster Epstein Moreno JV 27% 27%
Team 3: Studio ORD 24% 21%
Team 4: Skidmore, Owings & Merrill LLP 13% 11%
Team 5: Santiago Calatrava, LLC 28% 30%

Which design best fits with the existing O’Hare design and architecture?
City Residents All Respondents
Team 1: Fentress-EXP-Brook-Garza 10% 12%
Team 2: Foster Epstein Moreno JV 25% 25%
Team 3: Studio ORD 22% 19%
Team 4: Skidmore, Owings & Merrill LLP 18% 16%
Team 5: Santiago Calatrava, LLC 25% 28%

Sorry for the formatting (web page, not a graphic; original here http://ord21.com/about/pages/survey-results.aspx
 
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United787
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:13 pm

This is great news. Studio Gang's entry was my favorite. Good news for Chicago architects also!
 
muralir
Posts: 100
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:33 pm

emcm541 wrote:
yeogeo wrote:
Here's another try at displaying the other angle of the T-5 addition from the Curbed Chicago article that United787 posted:
Image

https://chicago.curbed.com/2019/3/20/18 ... nstruction


This photo rendering is showing a ton of space between the ATS tracks and the terminal extension. Seems like a waste. One would think this would be an opportunity to build out there to add more club/lounge space or retail options, or every a wider concourse area for seating.


Years ago the city had expansion plans called the O'Hare World Gateway plan. It included a Terminal 6, which was basically an extension of T5 but with real curbside facilities:
Image

It seems suspiciously like they're building the T5 extension with enough space in the front to eventually build out a real T6 with actual O&D facilities, maybe with the next expansion... That would make sense. After all, no need to re-route the roadway, APS, etc. if you're just going to fill it in with an expanded terminal in 10 years.

Such new facilities would basically be mandatory if they ever extend T5 again. As it is, even with the current expansion, I'm worried that there won't be enough checkin and security space for the increased operations. Can you imagine if they add another 10 gates in a future expansion but without any new checkin/checkout facilities?
 
muralir
Posts: 100
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:41 pm

United787 wrote:
This is great news. Studio Gang's entry was my favorite. Good news for Chicago architects also!


They were my second choice, so I guess I'm happy. I'm just glad the didn't go with SOM's boring design :-)

I just really, really wanted Foster's massive glass wall looking out at the airfield. That was jawdropping and would have made a real mark in the airport world (similar to when T1 opened).

I'm curious: the Calatrava and Gang designs were basically a similar Y-shape, while the others had basically a rectangle with two concourses of gates. Just eyeballing the pictures, it does seem that the Y-shape plans provide more space (they basically fill in the space between the concourses with interior space). Is that true? I'd imagine the city would specify the required amount of interior space, but it does seem that the Y-shape gives you a bigger interior. If that's the case, then I'm glad Gang's design won out because I'll take extra interior space for lounges, larger gates, amenities, etc. than a glass wall with a cramped interior.

(But man, that glass wall... Can you imagine waiting in line to check-in and being able to look across the terminal and see planes taking off from the runways? I don't think I've ever seen that in any airport terminal before)
 
chidino
Posts: 162
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:04 pm

muralir wrote:
It seems suspiciously like they're building the T5 extension with enough space in the front to eventually build out a real T6 with actual O&D facilities, maybe with the next expansion... That would make sense. After all, no need to re-route the roadway, APS, etc. if you're just going to fill it in with an expanded terminal in 10 years.

Such new facilities would basically be mandatory if they ever extend T5 again. As it is, even with the current expansion, I'm worried that there won't be enough checkin and security space for the increased operations. Can you imagine if they add another 10 gates in a future expansion but without any new checkin/checkout facilities?


I can seen the headline: "O'Hare's T5 First to Introduce Roller Skates". At first, my thought was "Nah, Phase II of ORD 21 puts more satellites farther west." But, in a world where Delta/ST, NK or F9 (certainly could) or int'l unaffiliateds grow rapidly, they're not going to want their other gates along York Road. I never thought of that -- although wouldn't we now be talking, presumably, about 120 million + pax counts?
 
NorthernPyro
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:47 am

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:22 pm

I spy glass jetways on the new gates. Here's hoping they make it into the final plan and become the norm among airports in the US.
 
BEG2IAH
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:51 pm

Is there even a faint chance that something will be done in T1? Should UA do that? For starters, can they fix the restrooms, they are beyond awful. When you try to wash your hands, faucets are sprinkling so little water that you basically just rub all the soap into your skin. Drains in the sinks stink and one of the reasons is that so little water flows through them. Also, whenever it's raining there are buckets collecting water everywhere. T1 is a dump.
Flying at the cruising altitude is (mostly) boring. I wish all flights were nothing but endless take offs and landings every 10 minutes or so.
 
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yeogeo
Posts: 1180
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:40 pm

Scarebus34 wrote:
Here is the video of StudiORDs proposal:

https://youtu.be/fYo2TDpCsCg


Looks great, glad they've made their choice!
 
chidino
Posts: 162
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:36 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:10 am

BEG2IAH wrote:
Is there even a faint chance that something will be done in T1? Should UA do that? For starters, can they fix the restrooms, they are beyond awful. When you try to wash your hands, faucets are sprinkling so little water that you basically just rub all the soap into your skin. Drains in the sinks stink and one of the reasons is that so little water flows through them. Also, whenever it's raining there are buckets collecting water everywhere. T1 is a dump.


T1 and T3 redos are up to the respective carrier in cooperation with the TAP and the city. No set dates on those; T3 will probably wait until after the people mover tunnel goes in, since a station for that goes in behind where baggage is now.

Kamin doesn't like the choice: https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/kamin/ct-biz-ohare-analysis-kamin-0328-story.html "The city’s absence of openness stinks to 35,000 feet, especially because it came just a day after Emanuel was all over national TV, blasting Cook County prosecutors for a lack of transparency in dropping charges against “Empire” actor Jussie Smollett. And the stakes of the O’Hare expansion, especially for millions of travelers, are far higher than the fate of some two-bit actor."

His main functional criticisms of Gang's plan were actually fairly limited: first, he doesn't like the flow (in order for arriving pax to enter into light, security would be up a level -- which sounds like a very reasonable objection), and the wood interior will look dated quickly. He just seems pissed that the Foster design won't get built: "Rejecting it will go down in history as a major lost opportunity."
 
Fargo
Posts: 810
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:00 am

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:11 am

Studio ORD was my second choice after Fentress-EXP-Brook-Garza. I know the latter was pretty generic/standard looking, but I felt like that one was the least likely to have cost overruns. Still, Studio ORD was a fantastic choice, construction can't come soon enough.

My only concern is how flexible will the terminal be connecting to the future redevelopment of Terminal 3 area? It seems the concourse is more of a curve than a straight line as originally proposed and will it be able to line up with a new Concourse G down the road?
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