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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:03 pm

Speaking of A350's...


Bill Wang caught the first Iberia A350 landing on 10C yesterday
(although the photo's date is listed as 6/23, today's date - but that flight is en route as I type this).

I was unaware of of the switch to the newer aircraft - the've been flying a mix of A333's and A346's on the route for quite a while now.

A350's are now scheduled for the foreseeable future.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ib6275
 
ILS28ORD
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:01 pm

That's a good looking A350
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:53 pm

With its daily DEL>ORD flight Air India has been dealing with the closing of Pakistani Airspace and the troubles in Iran just as United has with its two EWR-India flights. UA has suspended its flights at least until September, but AI is carrying on with tech stops on the India-ORD sector.

Until I looked up the history of this flight on Flightradar24 I had not known that these stopping points have varied since the last non-stop, which was back on the 26th of February. Since then the DEL-ORD flight first stopped over in Sharjah UAE (SHJ) for a time, then switched to Vienna Austria (VIE) until May 31 of this year. They are now visiting Stockholm Sweden (ARN) on the way to O'Hare.

Got to hand it to them: continuing to operate the flights in spite of what must be the great expense of an additional take-off and landing, another airport's landing fees, increased duty time for the crew, passenger dissatisfaction, etc, etc .



https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ai127
 
jcwr56
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:28 pm

yeogeo wrote:
With its daily DEL>ORD flight Air India has been dealing with the closing of Pakistani Airspace and the troubles in Iran just as United has with its two EWR-India flights. UA has suspended its flights at least until September, but AI is carrying on with tech stops on the India-ORD sector.

Until I looked up the history of this flight on Flightradar24 I had not known that these stopping points have varied since the last non-stop, which was back on the 26th of February. Since then the DEL-ORD flight first stopped over in Sharjah UAE (SHJ) for a time, then switched to Vienna Austria (VIE) until May 31 of this year. They are now visiting Stockholm Sweden (ARN) on the way to O'Hare.

Got to hand it to them: continuing to operate the flights in spite of what must be the great expense of an additional take-off and landing, another airport's landing fees, increased duty time for the crew, passenger dissatisfaction, etc, etc .



https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ai127




They had no choice to find another station as Chicago had no times after 1200 to handle the flight. It was difficult not only for gating but also ticketing too. For the winter you’ll see it revert to the 1230.
 
jcwr56
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:29 pm

Monday should bring some new news...
 
kyrone
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:34 pm

jcwr56 wrote:
Monday should bring some new news...



On Air India, or in general??
 
chidino
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:12 pm

F.H. Paschen, the contractor for (among other things) 9C/27C, posted a new photo back on June 13 of the final demolition for that runway on their Facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/FHPaschen/photos/a.551446611558502/2216744131695400/?type=3&theater

Image
 
chidino
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 04, 2019 4:11 am

Only thing left from that photo is relocation of Station #2: does anyone have photos, and what happens to fire protection at the west end?
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:06 pm

chidino wrote:
F.H. Paschen, the contractor for (among other things) 9C/27C, posted a new photo back on June 13 of the final demolition for that runway on their Facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/FHPaschen/photos/a.551446611558502/2216744131695400/?type=3&theater

Image


Boy, that was fast! Thanks for publishing this photo, chidino. I was wondering about the fire station myself. Reminds me of the private home that sits in the middle of Narita's runways - both will inevitably be gone in due time.
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:07 pm

Hainan's Chengdu (CTU) flights to O'Hare have been offered for sale from the 16th of September.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... -sep-2019/

Schedule:
HU705 CTU2100 – 2210ORD 787 15
HU706 ORD0010 – 0410+1CTU 787 26
 
ORDfan
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:25 pm

I just came back from a trip through T5, and noticed that the McDonald's in arrivals has been remodeled and expanded.

And I am not a fan at all of the expansion (don't care about the counter): but the expanded seating area literally looks out over the customs exit doors and it looks and feels like you are stepping into a McDonald's on arrival. WTF. It just seems so commercially tacky to me.

I get that McDonald's is a hometown company and I'm proud to have them based here, but did the city really have to allow them to build that glass wall and place their logo right by the exit? Needless to say, when I arrived in late afternoon, the seating area looked like a crowded mess: not an ideal first-look, "Welcome to Chicago" view for arriving passengers. Man, I really hope the city realizes this is not a good look and closes that seating area if McDonald's can't keep it clean.

Image

https://twitter.com/fly2ohare/status/11 ... 2711927808
 
chidino
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:10 am

chidino wrote:
Only thing left from that photo is relocation of Station #2: does anyone have photos, and what happens to fire protection at the west end?


I don't know about ARFF at the west end; I'll leave that to people far more informed than me. I am, however, good at scouring websites, so here's your new Station #2.

Image
 
FTMCPIUS
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9L-27R question

Sun Jul 07, 2019 2:44 am

Is it designated as arrivals-only, or is it just more efficient this way. If it's ever used for departures it must be on rare occasions. :?:
 
FTMCPIUS
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jul 07, 2019 2:51 am

The title of my previous post ("Question about 9L-27R") was deleted for some reason, and only the text was shown. Is it used only for landings?
 
MLIAA
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:03 pm

I’ve certainly never seen 9L/27R used for a departure, it’s just out of the way for anyone taking off. Arrivals only.
A319 A320 A321 A332 B712 B722 B737 B738 B739 B744 B752 B763 B764 B772 B788 MD80 S340 E140 E145 E170 E175 CRJ2 CRJ7 CRJ9
 
MLIAA
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:05 pm

Once 9C/27C comes online and 9R/27L is lengthened, will they stop departing 22L and use 10R/28L for arrivals? My crystal ball is broken.
A319 A320 A321 A332 B712 B722 B737 B738 B739 B744 B752 B763 B764 B772 B788 MD80 S340 E140 E145 E170 E175 CRJ2 CRJ7 CRJ9
 
airstatdfw
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:20 pm

MLIAA wrote:
I’ve certainly never seen 9L/27R used for a departure, it’s just out of the way for anyone taking off. Arrivals only.


Very rarely is it used for dept, the last ones I have seen have been Air Force 1 and 2.
 
FTMCPIUS
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:03 pm

airstatdfw wrote:
MLIAA wrote:
I’ve certainly never seen 9L/27R used for a departure, it’s just out of the way for anyone taking off. Arrivals only.


Very rarely is it used for dept, the last ones I have seen have been Air Force 1 and 2.

I think you have the wrong runway in mind. ATC doesn't put 747s on a 7,500 ft runway, especially when 10,000+ and 13,000 is available.
 
ual763
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:04 pm

The CDA just announced a few minutes ago that Skidmore, Owings, & Merril has been selected to design the satellite concourses.
From flying to the NOTAM office
 
chidino
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:22 pm

ual763 wrote:
The CDA just announced a few minutes ago that Skidmore, Owings, & Merril has been selected to design the satellite concourses.


Kamin's column: https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/blair-kamin/ct-biz-ohare-expansion-kamin-0709-20190708-gv5wn3s6ofa3ff34vixfh4hjre-story.html

CDA's press release: https://www.flychicago.com/business/media/news/pages/article.aspx?newsid=1562

Not much of a surprise: SOM has airports coming out of their ear, they were the planning architects (prior to StudioORD's selection), and the interiors were somewhat complimentary (wood ceiling), almost as if.... nah, no conspiracy theories here. Here's the SOM concourse sketch:

Image

Exterior looks TBD to make "compatible" with Gang's design; she is in charge of "tone and palette".
Last edited by chidino on Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
ual763
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:27 pm

The wooded enclaves remind me of the enclaves at EDDH Hamburg airport. Hopefully these will be real trees.
From flying to the NOTAM office
 
ordpia
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:35 pm

I hadn’t noticed that satellite 1 will be able to handle international arrivals before. Will these gates have dedicated customs facilities or a sterile tunnel back to the new T2 for processing ?

If they have their own customs facilities it’s a huge win for UA and *A to have even more availability.
Concorde 146 727 737 73G 742 744 752 753 762 763 772 773 300 319 320 321 343 346 CRJ ERJ ATR ATP CL604 LJ45 LJ60 BD700 GIV GV G650
 
emcm541
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:42 pm

ordpia wrote:
I hadn’t noticed that satellite 1 will be able to handle international arrivals before. Will these gates have dedicated customs facilities or a sterile tunnel back to the new T2 for processing ?

If they have their own customs facilities it’s a huge win for UA and *A to have even more availability.


IIRC, sterile tunnel back to the new T2, but happy to be corrected on that.
 
chidino
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:52 pm

emcm541 wrote:
ordpia wrote:
I hadn’t noticed that satellite 1 will be able to handle international arrivals before. Will these gates have dedicated customs facilities or a sterile tunnel back to the new T2 for processing ?

If they have their own customs facilities it’s a huge win for UA and *A to have even more availability.


IIRC, sterile tunnel back to the new T2, but happy to be corrected on that.


You are correct. There will just be CPB facilities in the OGT (and, yes, T5) with a sterile tunnel from Sat 1. Here's the planning cross-section of the tunnel (not final design, obviously)

Image

The sterile tunnel will only go as far as Sat 1 and will only have one moving walkway (one-way traffic). The APM tunnels will be dug but are not supposed to get trains until/unless 101.5 million+ pax triggers Satellites 3&4.
 
airstatdfw
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:35 pm

FTMCPIUS wrote:
airstatdfw wrote:
MLIAA wrote:
I’ve certainly never seen 9L/27R used for a departure, it’s just out of the way for anyone taking off. Arrivals only.


Very rarely is it used for dept, the last ones I have seen have been Air Force 1 and 2.

I think you have the wrong runway in mind. ATC doesn't put 747s on a 7,500 ft runway, especially when 10,000+ and 13,000 is available.


As someone who works as an ATC at ORD it has been done, especially since RWY 14L/32R has been demolished and that was the go to for AF1 and AF2.
 
jcwr56
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:08 pm

ordpia wrote:
I hadn’t noticed that satellite 1 will be able to handle international arrivals before. Will these gates have dedicated customs facilities or a sterile tunnel back to the new T2 for processing ?

If they have their own customs facilities it’s a huge win for UA and *A to have even more availability.


I'll throw this out. Being FIS capable, I wouldn't be shocked to see them used as International arrivals with those passengers being bused back to T5 for processing before the OGT is built.
 
jcwr56
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:10 pm

kyrone wrote:
jcwr56 wrote:
Monday should bring some new news...



On Air India, or in general??


It was in general. This didn't happen because a last minute curve ball was thrown at me that I wasn't expecting.
 
emcm541
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:16 pm

chidino wrote:
emcm541 wrote:
ordpia wrote:
I hadn’t noticed that satellite 1 will be able to handle international arrivals before. Will these gates have dedicated customs facilities or a sterile tunnel back to the new T2 for processing ?

If they have their own customs facilities it’s a huge win for UA and *A to have even more availability.


IIRC, sterile tunnel back to the new T2, but happy to be corrected on that.


You are correct. There will just be CPB facilities in the OGT (and, yes, T5) with a sterile tunnel from Sat 1. Here's the planning cross-section of the tunnel (not final design, obviously)

Image

The sterile tunnel will only go as far as Sat 1 and will only have one moving walkway (one-way traffic). The APM tunnels will be dug but are not supposed to get trains until/unless 101.5 million+ pax triggers Satellites 3&4.


I know Sat 2 is planned to be for UA Express, but seems to me that extending the sterile tunnel and FIS into Sat 2 only makes sense for future growth or at the very least, better gate utilization. But, may not be needed as I think Sat 2 was narrow-body gates only.
 
FTMCPIUS
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:03 pm

airstatdfw wrote:
FTMCPIUS wrote:
airstatdfw wrote:

Very rarely is it used for dept, the last ones I have seen have been Air Force 1 and 2.

I think you have the wrong runway in mind. ATC doesn't put 747s on a 7,500 ft runway, especially when 10,000+ and 13,000 is available.


As someone who works as an ATC at ORD it has been done, especially since RWY 14L/32R has been demolished and that was the go to for AF1 and AF2.

Why would 747s have been directed to a 7,500' runway departure when AT LEAST ONE much longer runway was available. 747 can use 7,500' in many cases but it's hard to believe this occurred at ORD -- certainly not Air Force 1 or 2.
 
Fargo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:30 pm

Hold on a minute. The article states construction isn’t going to begin on the satellites until 2022.

What?

The satellites need to be operational before the Global Terminal begins construction, which is scheduled for 2023. How on earth are they going to manage that? The satellites will need to be begin construction next year if they want to be completed by 2023.
 
chidino
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:18 am

Fargo wrote:
Hold on a minute. The article states construction isn’t going to begin on the satellites until 2022.

What?

The satellites need to be operational before the Global Terminal begins construction, which is scheduled for 2023. How on earth are they going to manage that? The satellites will need to be begin construction next year if they want to be completed by 2023.


You hold on a minute here, Fargo -- who are you to insist on planning? Deadlines? You think there might be a rational approach? C'mon, they know. Don't let obvious contradictions bother you. They'll tell you: you don't realize just who you're dealing with! Please, bow down. :roll:

To that end, although CDA still claims OGT delivery date of 2026, the city's all-important presentation to the bond folks says 2028...
 
Fargo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:55 am

chidino wrote:
Fargo wrote:
Hold on a minute. The article states construction isn’t going to begin on the satellites until 2022.

What?

The satellites need to be operational before the Global Terminal begins construction, which is scheduled for 2023. How on earth are they going to manage that? The satellites will need to be begin construction next year if they want to be completed by 2023.


You hold on a minute here, Fargo -- who are you to insist on planning? Deadlines? You think there might be a rational approach? C'mon, they know. Don't let obvious contradictions bother you. They'll tell you: you don't realize just who you're dealing with! Please, bow down. :roll:

To that end, although CDA still claims OGT delivery date of 2026, the city's all-important presentation to the bond folks says 2028...


You’re right, I totally forgot we are dealing with experts who have a proven track record of success and have delivered numerous projects of this magnitude on time and under budget. Who am I to be skeptical?

After all, they have done a fantastic job on the new ATS, it’s really smooth ridi....... oh wait
 
chidino
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:57 am

Fargo wrote:
You’re right, I totally forgot we are dealing with experts who have a proven track record of success and have delivered numerous projects of this magnitude on time and under budget. Who am I to be skeptical?

After all, they have done a fantastic job on the new ATS, it’s really smooth ridi....... oh wait


Exactly! (And thanks -- sarcasm can be risky. :wave: )
 
Fargo
Posts: 771
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:00 am

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:12 am

chidino wrote:
Fargo wrote:
You’re right, I totally forgot we are dealing with experts who have a proven track record of success and have delivered numerous projects of this magnitude on time and under budget. Who am I to be skeptical?

After all, they have done a fantastic job on the new ATS, it’s really smooth ridi....... oh wait


Exactly! (And thanks -- sarcasm can be risky. :wave: )


This whole process has been an absolute joke. The fact that the whole selection process was shrouded in secrecy and the fact that the main construction is 4-5 years away when this was needed as of 20 years ago is beyond mind boggling. Not even the LGA/JFK rebuilds are going this bad.

And don’t even get me started on the ATS nonsense...... at this point, the contractor should be fined $250k a day until that is completed.

Chicago is such a great city in of itself, but it’s politicians are (and have been for quite a while) burning the future to the ground by being perhaps the most corrupt city in America.
 
chidino
Posts: 146
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:36 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:15 am

FWIW, a very early exterior model of the SOM concourse. Again, StudioORD is now supposed to be in charge of "tone and palette" and the designs will be made "compatible".

Image

And all satellite concourses must have flex gates (RJs to wide-body, adaptable, although Sat 1 and the OGT must accommodate two Group VI aircraft each). They do have live trees in this mockup, @ual763.
 
ual763
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:06 pm

chidino wrote:
FWIW, a very early exterior model of the SOM concourse. Again, StudioORD is now supposed to be in charge of "tone and palette" and the designs will be made "compatible".

Image

And all satellite concourses must have flex gates (RJs to wide-body, adaptable, although Sat 1 and the OGT must accommodate two Group VI aircraft each). They do have live trees in this mockup, @ual763.


The picture isn’t showing. But good to know they’ll be live trees! Love the foliage at airports.
From flying to the NOTAM office
 
chidino
Posts: 146
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:36 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:36 pm

ual763 wrote:
The picture isn’t showing. But good to know they’ll be live trees! Love the foliage at airports.


Sorry -- I linked to it directly, which doesn't help anybody else. This is apparently a photo taken of the SOM model when it was on display; now that I look at it more closely, though, this was the big arm that went south as part of the OGT, not one of the satellites. (The "arm" was abandoned by Gang for the triangular shape.)

Image
 
chicawgo
Posts: 371
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:09 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:17 pm

Fargo wrote:
Hold on a minute. The article states construction isn’t going to begin on the satellites until 2022.

What?

The satellites need to be operational before the Global Terminal begins construction, which is scheduled for 2023. How on earth are they going to manage that? The satellites will need to be begin construction next year if they want to be completed by 2023.


I thought that when I read it. I'm thinking that's just a Tribune error. The first satellite construction was supposed to start much sooner than that.
 
Kbud
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:18 am

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:23 pm

emcm541 wrote:
chidino wrote:
emcm541 wrote:

IIRC, sterile tunnel back to the new T2, but happy to be corrected on that.


You are correct. There will just be CPB facilities in the OGT (and, yes, T5) with a sterile tunnel from Sat 1. Here's the planning cross-section of the tunnel (not final design, obviously)

Image

The sterile tunnel will only go as far as Sat 1 and will only have one moving walkway (one-way traffic). The APM tunnels will be dug but are not supposed to get trains until/unless 101.5 million+ pax triggers Satellites 3&4.


I know Sat 2 is planned to be for UA Express, but seems to me that extending the sterile tunnel and FIS into Sat 2 only makes sense for future growth or at the very least, better gate utilization. But, may not be needed as I think Sat 2 was narrow-body gates only.


Other than a 9 year build (ridiculous) , there are two other major mistakes being made with this project. 1) the project is targeted for today’s needs, not 10 years from now (ala T1 not bring able to park anything in between B and C bigger than a DC-10). How in the world will AA’s T3 “Y” concourse be satisfactory to AA in 10 years? The wait areas are tiny with no hallway room. I arrived there last week and you couldn’t even walk down the hallway as lines to board 737s went across the hall. United’s total facilities will be much better than American’s. 2) Not putting trains in the tunnels to begin with. Imagine arriving at the end of the new satellite #2 and having to catch a plane departing from B17?

I love the fact that they are doing this, but it’s just filled with mistakes to begin with.
 
airstatdfw
Posts: 358
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:04 am

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:11 pm

FTMCPIUS wrote:
airstatdfw wrote:
FTMCPIUS wrote:
I think you have the wrong runway in mind. ATC doesn't put 747s on a 7,500 ft runway, especially when 10,000+ and 13,000 is available.


As someone who works as an ATC at ORD it has been done, especially since RWY 14L/32R has been demolished and that was the go to for AF1 and AF2.

Why would 747s have been directed to a 7,500' runway departure when AT LEAST ONE much longer runway was available. 747 can use 7,500' in many cases but it's hard to believe this occurred at ORD -- certainly not Air Force 1 or 2.


More has to do with security, you can keep planes on the south side moving while the north side is working AF 1 or AF 2. But 9R and 22L have both had B747 Dept and 22L even has had the A380 Dept. It is more efficient if they can take the shorter RWY for their direction of flight. If the pilot request a longer RWY we will taxi them there, but they will delay other aircraft if their direction of flight shuts down the shorter RWY. This happens on East flow a lot many of the Heavy’s are North or East bound which is normally where 9R Dept go. We normally always assign RWYs based on direction not plane type.
 
muralir
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 3:44 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:11 pm

jcwr56 wrote:
ordpia wrote:
I hadn’t noticed that satellite 1 will be able to handle international arrivals before. Will these gates have dedicated customs facilities or a sterile tunnel back to the new T2 for processing ?

If they have their own customs facilities it’s a huge win for UA and *A to have even more availability.


I'll throw this out. Being FIS capable, I wouldn't be shocked to see them used as International arrivals with those passengers being bused back to T5 for processing before the OGT is built.


It's possible but I doubt it, because the T5 expansion should be complete by then. I doubt the new gates will be filled up so quickly that international traffic spills over to the concourses before the OGT is done. OTOH if growth is indeed that fast, it'll be a good problem to have :)
 
emcm541
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:59 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:37 pm

chidino wrote:
And all satellite concourses must have flex gates (RJs to wide-body, adaptable, although Sat 1 and the OGT must accommodate two Group VI aircraft each). They do have live trees in this mockup, @ual763.


That will be a great feature and help with gate utilization. Anyone know if they are doing these flex gates in the T5 addition?
 
FTMCPIUS
Posts: 175
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:10 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:58 am

airstatdfw wrote:
FTMCPIUS wrote:
airstatdfw wrote:

As someone who works as an ATC at ORD it has been done, especially since RWY 14L/32R has been demolished and that was the go to for AF1 and AF2.

Why would 747s have been directed to a 7,500' runway departure when AT LEAST ONE much longer runway was available. 747 can use 7,500' in many cases but it's hard to believe this occurred at ORD -- certainly not Air Force 1 or 2.


More has to do with security, you can keep planes on the south side moving while the north side is working AF 1 or AF 2. But 9R and 22L have both had B747 Dept and 22L even has had the A380 Dept. It is more efficient if they can take the shorter RWY for their direction of flight. If the pilot request a longer RWY we will taxi them there, but they will delay other aircraft if their direction of flight shuts down the shorter RWY. This happens on East flow a lot many of the Heavy’s are North or East bound which is normally where 9R Dept go. We normally always assign RWYs based on direction not plane type.

Check my original post -- the runway I was asking about is 9L-27R, but you are referring to 9R-27L, hence the confusion.
 
airstatdfw
Posts: 358
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:04 am

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:59 am

FTMCPIUS wrote:
airstatdfw wrote:
FTMCPIUS wrote:
Why would 747s have been directed to a 7,500' runway departure when AT LEAST ONE much longer runway was available. 747 can use 7,500' in many cases but it's hard to believe this occurred at ORD -- certainly not Air Force 1 or 2.


More has to do with security, you can keep planes on the south side moving while the north side is working AF 1 or AF 2. But 9R and 22L have both had B747 Dept and 22L even has had the A380 Dept. It is more efficient if they can take the shorter RWY for their direction of flight. If the pilot request a longer RWY we will taxi them there, but they will delay other aircraft if their direction of flight shuts down the shorter RWY. This happens on East flow a lot many of the Heavy’s are North or East bound which is normally where 9R Dept go. We normally always assign RWYs based on direction not plane type.

Check my original post -- the runway I was asking about is 9L-27R, but you are referring to 9R-27L, hence the confusion.


I answered your question in your original post, you didn’t think a 747 would take a short RWY. I advised there have been departures off of RWY 27R. I was all letting you know that large aircraft have taken other short RWYs as ORD like 22L which is 8079 or 9R which is 7967.
 
jcwr56
Posts: 895
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:36 am

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:10 pm

muralir wrote:
jcwr56 wrote:
ordpia wrote:
I hadn’t noticed that satellite 1 will be able to handle international arrivals before. Will these gates have dedicated customs facilities or a sterile tunnel back to the new T2 for processing ?

If they have their own customs facilities it’s a huge win for UA and *A to have even more availability.


I'll throw this out. Being FIS capable, I wouldn't be shocked to see them used as International arrivals with those passengers being bused back to T5 for processing before the OGT is built.


It's possible but I doubt it, because the T5 expansion should be complete by then. I doubt the new gates will be filled up so quickly that international traffic spills over to the concourses before the OGT is done. OTOH if growth is indeed that fast, it'll be a good problem to have :)


The T5 expansion is really not an expansion at all in terms of additional capacity over what is there now. There's no additional net gain of gates. It's just replacing what is being taken over by DL when they move over in 2 years.

So in the larger context, T5 will still be the only FIS facility until the OGT is built out in a decade. So imagine a conservative 2-3% yearly growth in operations, who thinks T5 still has room over the next 10 year to handle all of it?

What you will see will be some if not all of the domestic and precleared flights currently operation in T5 (F9, SY, EI and EY) being moved over to domestic common use gates once those are built out or reallocated within the next year or so.
 
YYZORD
Posts: 261
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:58 pm

I read somewhere that WS wants to come back to ORD with YYZ-ORD flights after the WS/DL JV goes through as this route is very competitive with many other carriers and DL has somewhat of a presence there!
 
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United787
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:01 pm

Fargo wrote:
chidino wrote:
Fargo wrote:
You’re right, I totally forgot we are dealing with experts who have a proven track record of success and have delivered numerous projects of this magnitude on time and under budget. Who am I to be skeptical?

After all, they have done a fantastic job on the new ATS, it’s really smooth ridi....... oh wait


Exactly! (And thanks -- sarcasm can be risky. :wave: )


This whole process has been an absolute joke. The fact that the whole selection process was shrouded in secrecy and the fact that the main construction is 4-5 years away when this was needed as of 20 years ago is beyond mind boggling. Not even the LGA/JFK rebuilds are going this bad.

And don’t even get me started on the ATS nonsense...... at this point, the contractor should be fined $250k a day until that is completed.

Chicago is such a great city in of itself, but it’s politicians are (and have been for quite a while) burning the future to the ground by being perhaps the most corrupt city in America.


I think you guys are being overly negative. The ATS disaster is completely unacceptable, but that is only one example. The $8 billion OMP project is successful and is far larger and more complicated than the ORD21 project. And it was a lot more than just runways: relocating railroads & roads, numerous bridges, 2 new control towers, new hangers, relocated cargo facilities, demolished neighborhoods, relocated cemetery, numerous new other buildings and much much more.

The new cargo facilities on the north side and the CONRAC seemed to go smoothly. AA got 5 new gates and although that was shroud in secrecy, built without much drama.

There is a lot of corruption in the City but there is a lot of corruption is most cities. The difference is, Chicago has a history of getting big projects done much more so than most cities and much more than the NIMBY cities on the coasts. Chicago is not without it's problems, but I think the overly dramatic skepticism is unfounded.

Furthermore, the ORD21 project would not be possible if it weren't for the OMP project. Yes, this was needed 20 years ago but the OMP started in 2005, 14 years ago. They couldn't build the new terminals without expanding the runway capacity and reconfiguring the layout. So, although it would have been great to start this 20 years ago, it wasn't possible. Also, UA and AA fought the terminal expansion and without them, it wasn't going to happen. It took Rahm's strong arm and political power to make the ORD21 project possible. The OMP project was only possible because of Daley's political power. While on one hand I cringe at the power Rahm and Daley had over the City and the corruption that came along with it... these projects wouldn't be possible without that kind of political control. Show me another city in the US or Europe that has a project as big as the combined OMP and ORD21! The IST airport is the only one but again not possible without King Erdogan, whom I despise.
 
chidino
Posts: 146
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:36 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:42 pm

Kbud wrote:
Other than a 9 year build (ridiculous) , there are two other major mistakes being made with this project. 1) the project is targeted for today’s needs, not 10 years from now (ala T1 not bring able to park anything in between B and C bigger than a DC-10). How in the world will AA’s T3 “Y” concourse be satisfactory to AA in 10 years? The wait areas are tiny with no hallway room. I arrived there last week and you couldn’t even walk down the hallway as lines to board 737s went across the hall. United’s total facilities will be much better than American’s. 2) Not putting trains in the tunnels to begin with. Imagine arriving at the end of the new satellite #2 and having to catch a plane departing from B17?

I love the fact that they are doing this, but it’s just filled with mistakes to begin with.


The nine year build is not "ridiculous" when you realize there's an 80 million+ pax airport with seven runways operating in 7,623 acres (and God forbid if construction makes a plane late). If you have the magic engineering example of how you do ALL of this more quickly, please let us know how. (If you can't tell, I'm a project manager -- not here, tho.) The first thing they have to do: relocate a large drainage facility and drill tunnels under operating runways. (Yup, with freakin' TBMs.) We won't see it, but they can't build Satellite 2 w/o it.

As to T3, that is between AA and the CDA. It is NOT contained in the plan, just as a relocation of existing C westward seems to be a no-brainer to you and me -- but is up to UA and CDA. The no-train decision was determined by the airlines, who were cheap -- whoops, I misspoke... who seem to think a walkway is the same thing. (Please remember that the walkway is tens of millions, the ITT -- the Inter-Terminal Train, as the city calls it in bid documents -- is hundreds.)
Last edited by chidino on Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
chidino
Posts: 146
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:36 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:54 pm

emcm541 wrote:
chidino wrote:
And all satellite concourses must have flex gates (RJs to wide-body, adaptable, although Sat 1 and the OGT must accommodate two Group VI aircraft each). They do have live trees in this mockup, @ual763.


That will be a great feature and help with gate utilization. Anyone know if they are doing these flex gates in the T5 addition?


Thankfully, all TAP gates (except for the L stinger) are specified to be flex. As to existing T1 and T3 gates, that's up to the respective airlines and CDA.
 
ILS28ORD
Posts: 164
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:26 pm

I know it costs more, but when all the competing mid-continent airports have airside APMs (IAH, ATL, DFW, DEN), they need to consider it essential. I know most Americans need more exercise, but a long underground walkway just will not due. And I’ve been on record for a long time saying they need to connect T5 to the rest of the terminal core. Especially when ORD bills itself the most connected airport in the world. They need to facilitate inter-line and international connections, OGT won’t house all the international flights when it’s done.

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