chicawgo
Posts: 391
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:09 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:13 pm

OneX123 wrote:
sircygnus wrote:
This “allowing” shoulder riding sometimes is not only confusing but also dangerous. People not only get confused by it but then the people who understand it don’t realize that NB Mannheim to 190 exit merges with the shoulder and people don’t know who is supposed to yield. I’m shocked there’s not more accidents right there, especially with the 294 South exit immediately after that merge.
IDOT really needs to fix this.


I could not agree more but I think the chances of 190 being expanded are probably near zero.


I frequent ORD, BOS, ATL, and LGA often on Monday mornings and the constant traffic to ORD is unbelievable. Two lanes from downtown to ORD is just insufficient. Traffic starts to slow up at 5:15am, if not earlier, and any accident causes unbelievable delays. I left Lincoln Park at 5:20am last Monday and a vehicle fire had traffic backed up almost all the way to Fullerton Ave exit. I don't see how this is sustainable in the near-term.


2 lanes from downtown?? The Kennedy has 4 local and 6 when express are open. Then it's 3 after the junction and they're currently adding a 4th from Harlem.

And I have 3 words for you: "Take the EL"
 
chicawgo
Posts: 391
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:09 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:32 pm

chidino wrote:
I know it's been asked before, but any current pictures of 9C/27C and/or the north side of the airfield would be incredibly welcome. Anything.


Here's two from Thursday. From the south but can still see the progress on 9C/27C pretty well.

Image

Image
 
sircygnus
Posts: 56
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:46 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:57 pm

2 lanes from downtown?? The Kennedy has 4 local and 6 when express are open. Then it's 3 after the junction and they're currently adding a 4th from Harlem


He is correct, it narrows to two thru lanes prior to the merge from the I90 E ramp.
 
ZBA2CGX
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:09 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:02 pm

chicawgo wrote:
OneX123 wrote:
sircygnus wrote:

And I have 3 words for you: "Take the EL"


Not this week, the EL stops at Rosemont for signal replacement. Maybe the Metra - North Central Service to O'hare might be the quickest. you still have to get from the metra stop to the airport though.

Monday mornings are always the worst time from Downtown to O'hare.
 
OneX123
Posts: 62
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:08 am

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:37 pm

chicawgo wrote:
OneX123 wrote:
sircygnus wrote:

I could not agree more but I think the chances of 190 being expanded are probably near zero.


I frequent ORD, BOS, ATL, and LGA often on Monday mornings and the constant traffic to ORD is unbelievable. Two lanes from downtown to ORD is just insufficient. Traffic starts to slow up at 5:15am, if not earlier, and any accident causes unbelievable delays. I left Lincoln Park at 5:20am last Monday and a vehicle fire had traffic backed up almost all the way to Fullerton Ave exit. I don't see how this is sustainable in the near-term.


2 lanes from downtown?? The Kennedy has 4 local and 6 when express are open. Then it's 3 after the junction and they're currently adding a 4th from Harlem.

And I have 3 words for you: "Take the EL"


Exactly my point, the Kennedy goes from 4 lanes down to 2 right near the airport Westin/Rosemont stop. This is where all the traffic originates from. The Kennedy could be 100 lanes but until that exit is fixed it's not going to get any better.

Taking the L is a poor option for most of Lincoln Park. Anything east of the highway and you still have to take a Taxi/Uber to get there. In my opinion, it's only a nice option if you have plenty of time, want to conserve $, or live on the line or close to Loop.
 
chicawgo
Posts: 391
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:09 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:57 pm

sircygnus wrote:
2 lanes from downtown?? The Kennedy has 4 local and 6 when express are open. Then it's 3 after the junction and they're currently adding a 4th from Harlem


He is correct, it narrows to two thru lanes prior to the merge from the I90 E ramp.


He wrote "2 lanes from downtown to ORD" so that's what I was responding to.

ZBA2CGX wrote:
chicawgo wrote:
OneX123 wrote:


Not this week, the EL stops at Rosemont for signal replacement. Maybe the Metra - North Central Service to O'hare might be the quickest. you still have to get from the metra stop to the airport though.


Seriously? They're running buses straight from the Rosemont station to the airport. Infrastructure needs to be updated. It happens. So they're closing the final leg and running a shuttle for a week and a half. $2.50 from the loop and will still be under an hour total time. Not the end of the world.

OneX123 wrote:
chicawgo wrote:
OneX123 wrote:

I frequent ORD, BOS, ATL, and LGA often on Monday mornings and the constant traffic to ORD is unbelievable. Two lanes from downtown to ORD is just insufficient. Traffic starts to slow up at 5:15am, if not earlier, and any accident causes unbelievable delays. I left Lincoln Park at 5:20am last Monday and a vehicle fire had traffic backed up almost all the way to Fullerton Ave exit. I don't see how this is sustainable in the near-term.


2 lanes from downtown?? The Kennedy has 4 local and 6 when express are open. Then it's 3 after the junction and they're currently adding a 4th from Harlem.

And I have 3 words for you: "Take the EL"


Taking the L is a poor option for most of Lincoln Park. Anything east of the highway and you still have to take a Taxi/Uber to get there. In my opinion, it's only a nice option if you have plenty of time, want to conserve $, or live on the line or close to Loop.


Completely agreed it's a big gap. But during bad traffic to ORD, Ubering to/from Blue Line and train the rest of the way is still faster. For example, Belmont to ORD on train is 23-25 minutes. It could take a lot longer than that on the Kennedy from there. When I was younger (and cheaper) I'd take the Fullerton bus to California and take Blue Line. Now that I'm a bit older and willing to spend more, I Uber to train. If there's no traffic I'll sometimes Uber the whole way. I wish we had a Circle Line that connected better but it's still not that bad.
 
FTMCPIUS
Posts: 196
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:10 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:57 pm

OneX123 wrote:
sircygnus wrote:
This “allowing” shoulder riding sometimes is not only confusing but also dangerous. People not only get confused by it but then the people who understand it don’t realize that NB Mannheim to 190 exit merges with the shoulder and people don’t know who is supposed to yield. I’m shocked there’s not more accidents right there, especially with the 294 South exit immediately after that merge.
IDOT really needs to fix this.


I could not agree more but I think the chances of 190 being expanded are probably near zero.


I frequent ORD, BOS, ATL, and LGA often on Monday mornings and the constant traffic to ORD is unbelievable. Two lanes from downtown to ORD is just insufficient. Traffic starts to slow up at 5:15am, if not earlier, and any accident causes unbelievable delays. I left Lincoln Park at 5:20am last Monday and a vehicle fire had traffic backed up almost all the way to Fullerton Ave exit. I don't see how this is sustainable in the near-term.

In the morning it is six lanes (includes express lanes) out to the Edens Junction, and then three to I-190.

Both I-90 and I-190 could use at least one more lane, but considering the State's financial situation, lotsa luck.
 
luckyone
Posts: 2815
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:59 pm

OneX123 wrote:
chicawgo wrote:
OneX123 wrote:

I frequent ORD, BOS, ATL, and LGA often on Monday mornings and the constant traffic to ORD is unbelievable. Two lanes from downtown to ORD is just insufficient. Traffic starts to slow up at 5:15am, if not earlier, and any accident causes unbelievable delays. I left Lincoln Park at 5:20am last Monday and a vehicle fire had traffic backed up almost all the way to Fullerton Ave exit. I don't see how this is sustainable in the near-term.


2 lanes from downtown?? The Kennedy has 4 local and 6 when express are open. Then it's 3 after the junction and they're currently adding a 4th from Harlem.

And I have 3 words for you: "Take the EL"


Exactly my point, the Kennedy goes from 4 lanes down to 2 right near the airport Westin/Rosemont stop. This is where all the traffic originates from. The Kennedy could be 100 lanes but until that exit is fixed it's not going to get any better.

Taking the L is a poor option for most of Lincoln Park. Anything east of the highway and you still have to take a Taxi/Uber to get there. In my opinion, it's only a nice option if you have plenty of time, want to conserve $, or live on the line or close to Loop.

I'm not sure I agree that the L is a poor option for Lincoln Park. You can take either the Red or Brown Lines to the Loop. The major thoroughfares North, Fullerton, Diversy all have regular East-West bus service directly to the Blue Line. If you live closer to the lake you can also take one of the LSD Expresses numbered in the 130s or the LaSalle Street bus which stops locally along Lincoln Park to the LaSalle Blue Line Station. You can also take the Halsted Street Bus down to the Grand Avenue Blue Line station.
 
chidino
Posts: 175
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:36 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:36 pm

sircygnus wrote:
This “allowing” shoulder riding sometimes is not only confusing but also dangerous. People not only get confused by it but then the people who understand it don’t realize that NB Mannheim to 190 exit merges with the shoulder and people don’t know who is supposed to yield. I’m shocked there’s not more accidents right there, especially with the 294 South exit immediately after that merge.
IDOT really needs to fix this.


I could not agree more but I think the chances of 190 being expanded are probably near zero.


Actually, the "new capital program includes $561 million to finally finish improvements on the airport's sole east-side entrance": https://www.chicagobusiness.com/greg-hinz-politics/here-comes-huge-road-project-make-it-easier-get-ohare

"While some improvements have been made in recent years, with a three-mile stretch of Mannheim widened and Balmoral Avenue extended, a much bigger project to double the capacity of I-190 and redesign the I-190/Mannheim intersection (my emphasis) has (sic) stalled. Another $561 million was needed, according to the Illinois Department of Transportation, and the money was just not available.

But the new capital program enacted by the General Assembly will ensure the project finally gets back on track, says Deputy Gov. Christian Mitchell.

“It’s a priority project for the Pritzker administration,” Mitchell said. New revenue from doubling the state’s tax on gasoline tax and other sources “will allow us to accelerate the work and complete the final phase.”

None of that yet is reflected in IDOT’s official multiyear highway improvement program. But it will be when an updated program is announced later this year, Mitchell said.

If work goes as planned, engineering and design will take a year or two and construction would begin “in late 2021 or early 2022,” Mitchell said. When completed, 32 lane miles will have been rebuilt and 25 lane miles added."
 
User avatar
piedmontf284000
Posts: 410
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:00 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:34 pm

luckyone wrote:
OneX123 wrote:
chicawgo wrote:

2 lanes from downtown?? The Kennedy has 4 local and 6 when express are open. Then it's 3 after the junction and they're currently adding a 4th from Harlem.

And I have 3 words for you: "Take the EL"


Exactly my point, the Kennedy goes from 4 lanes down to 2 right near the airport Westin/Rosemont stop. This is where all the traffic originates from. The Kennedy could be 100 lanes but until that exit is fixed it's not going to get any better.

Taking the L is a poor option for most of Lincoln Park. Anything east of the highway and you still have to take a Taxi/Uber to get there. In my opinion, it's only a nice option if you have plenty of time, want to conserve $, or live on the line or close to Loop.

I'm not sure I agree that the L is a poor option for Lincoln Park. You can take either the Red or Brown Lines to the Loop. The major thoroughfares North, Fullerton, Diversy all have regular East-West bus service directly to the Blue Line. If you live closer to the lake you can also take one of the LSD Expresses numbered in the 130s or the LaSalle Street bus which stops locally along Lincoln Park to the LaSalle Blue Line Station. You can also take the Halsted Street Bus down to the Grand Avenue Blue Line station.


The Blue Line should have been connected to the Brown Line at Jefferson Park years ago. There is sufficient infrastructure at Jefferson Park with the Metra Stop, which is above the Blue Line station, to allow for a terminus station for the Brown Line. This would replace the current terminus station at Kimball and allow for an expansion Brown line track running straight down Lawrence Ave into Jefferson Park. As it stands now, anyone living in Lincoln Park has to backtrack south all the way into the Loop and then switch at Clark/Lake. Very inefficient and time consuming.

chidino wrote:
sircygnus wrote:
This “allowing” shoulder riding sometimes is not only confusing but also dangerous. People not only get confused by it but then the people who understand it don’t realize that NB Mannheim to 190 exit merges with the shoulder and people don’t know who is supposed to yield. I’m shocked there’s not more accidents right there, especially with the 294 South exit immediately after that merge.
IDOT really needs to fix this.


I could not agree more but I think the chances of 190 being expanded are probably near zero.


Actually, the "new capital program includes $561 million to finally finish improvements on the airport's sole east-side entrance": https://www.chicagobusiness.com/greg-hinz-politics/here-comes-huge-road-project-make-it-easier-get-ohare

"While some improvements have been made in recent years, with a three-mile stretch of Mannheim widened and Balmoral Avenue extended, a much bigger project to double the capacity of I-190 and redesign the I-190/Mannheim intersection (my emphasis) has (sic) stalled. Another $561 million was needed, according to the Illinois Department of Transportation, and the money was just not available.

But the new capital program enacted by the General Assembly will ensure the project finally gets back on track, says Deputy Gov. Christian Mitchell.

“It’s a priority project for the Pritzker administration,” Mitchell said. New revenue from doubling the state’s tax on gasoline tax and other sources “will allow us to accelerate the work and complete the final phase.”

None of that yet is reflected in IDOT’s official multiyear highway improvement program. But it will be when an updated program is announced later this year, Mitchell said.

If work goes as planned, engineering and design will take a year or two and construction would begin “in late 2021 or early 2022,” Mitchell said. When completed, 32 lane miles will have been rebuilt and 25 lane miles added."


Speaking of the Blue Line. If they are going to spend more than a half a billion dollars to widen I-190, then they might as well build a stop for the International Terminal (soon to be just known as Terminal 5). There is plenty of ability to do so because the widening of I-190 is going to open up enough space just north of the Terminal that would allow for a station and a walkover that would connect to the new garage/hotel that will be built in the current parking lot. It is also very inefficient for so many travelers and employees that work in T-5 to have to backtrack to the other terminals via the APC and then cross over the walkways into the Terminals, only to go underground and cross back over again to reach the O-Hare station.
 
User avatar
yeogeo
Posts: 1216
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:47 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:05 pm

OAG released its Megahubs Index for 2019.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/london-h ... 00140.html
"The analysis reveals the Top 50 most internationally connected airports in the world and the Top 25 most domestically connected airports in the U.S."

Chicago O'Hare is #3 on the most internationally connected list, being supplanted at number two by FRA. LHR is #1 here, as always.

Other North American airports in the top 50 internationally:
#6 YYZ
#8 ATL
#13 LAX
#15 MEX
#18 JFK
#19 DFW
#20 MIA
#21 IAH
#23 EWR
#27 YVR
#31 SFO
#37 SEA
#41 YUL
#44 BOS

There is a link in the article which will provide you, given your name and email address, a list of the top 50 international, the top 25 low-cost (Midway is #18), and the top 25 US (ORD is #1) airports according to OAG's formula.

"[ORD] retains its place as the largest US Domestic Megahub in 2019. With a Connectivity Index score of 459, the airport ranks well ahead of other US airports for connectivity. On the busiest day this year a total of 83,580 possible connections were possible between domestic scheduled flights within a three hour time window at ORD..."
 
Planeboy17
Posts: 322
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:18 am

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:28 pm

chidino wrote:
sircygnus wrote:
This “allowing” shoulder riding sometimes is not only confusing but also dangerous. People not only get confused by it but then the people who understand it don’t realize that NB Mannheim to 190 exit merges with the shoulder and people don’t know who is supposed to yield. I’m shocked there’s not more accidents right there, especially with the 294 South exit immediately after that merge.
IDOT really needs to fix this.


I could not agree more but I think the chances of 190 being expanded are probably near zero.


Actually, the "new capital program includes $561 million to finally finish improvements on the airport's sole east-side entrance": https://www.chicagobusiness.com/greg-hinz-politics/here-comes-huge-road-project-make-it-easier-get-ohare

"While some improvements have been made in recent years, with a three-mile stretch of Mannheim widened and Balmoral Avenue extended, a much bigger project to double the capacity of I-190 and redesign the I-190/Mannheim intersection (my emphasis) has (sic) stalled. Another $561 million was needed, according to the Illinois Department of Transportation, and the money was just not available.

But the new capital program enacted by the General Assembly will ensure the project finally gets back on track, says Deputy Gov. Christian Mitchell.

“It’s a priority project for the Pritzker administration,” Mitchell said. New revenue from doubling the state’s tax on gasoline tax and other sources “will allow us to accelerate the work and complete the final phase.”

None of that yet is reflected in IDOT’s official multiyear highway improvement program. But it will be when an updated program is announced later this year, Mitchell said.

If work goes as planned, engineering and design will take a year or two and construction would begin “in late 2021 or early 2022,” Mitchell said. When completed, 32 lane miles will have been rebuilt and 25 lane miles added."

Excellent find chidino!
Although it will be awhile I’m glad to see this finally happening. Let’s hope it happens sooner than later.
Although we bitch plenty about ORD, this entrance to 90 and 294 is great. Yes, it will be much better in the future but when traveling around to other airports around the country, you’ll soon see how lucky we are to have this infrastructure.
I’m looking at you LAX.
 
sircygnus
Posts: 56
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:46 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:57 am

Yes excellent find. Glad to know officials at least see the problem, now it sounds like the project just needs some funding
 
BNAMealer
Posts: 245
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:03 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:21 am

Planeboy17 wrote:
chidino wrote:
sircygnus wrote:

I could not agree more but I think the chances of 190 being expanded are probably near zero.


Actually, the "new capital program includes $561 million to finally finish improvements on the airport's sole east-side entrance": https://www.chicagobusiness.com/greg-hinz-politics/here-comes-huge-road-project-make-it-easier-get-ohare

"While some improvements have been made in recent years, with a three-mile stretch of Mannheim widened and Balmoral Avenue extended, a much bigger project to double the capacity of I-190 and redesign the I-190/Mannheim intersection (my emphasis) has (sic) stalled. Another $561 million was needed, according to the Illinois Department of Transportation, and the money was just not available.

But the new capital program enacted by the General Assembly will ensure the project finally gets back on track, says Deputy Gov. Christian Mitchell.

“It’s a priority project for the Pritzker administration,” Mitchell said. New revenue from doubling the state’s tax on gasoline tax and other sources “will allow us to accelerate the work and complete the final phase.”

None of that yet is reflected in IDOT’s official multiyear highway improvement program. But it will be when an updated program is announced later this year, Mitchell said.

If work goes as planned, engineering and design will take a year or two and construction would begin “in late 2021 or early 2022,” Mitchell said. When completed, 32 lane miles will have been rebuilt and 25 lane miles added."

Excellent find chidino!
Although it will be awhile I’m glad to see this finally happening. Let’s hope it happens sooner than later.
Although we bitch plenty about ORD, this entrance to 90 and 294 is great. Yes, it will be much better in the future but when traveling around to other airports around the country, you’ll soon see how lucky we are to have this infrastructure.
I’m looking at you LAX.


What will really help is when they put in new western access from the new IL-390/I-490. That should alleviate a fair amount from the east side.
 
chidino
Posts: 175
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:36 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:31 pm

Glad there wasn't a severe incident... Fire department chief at Chicago airports out and firefighters to be retrained amid FAA investigation https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-chicago-fire-department-airport-training-faa-20190924-5cpeujkkkvek7oejgzhmnwn5z4-story.html

"The Chicago Fire Department chief responsible for the city’s airports was relieved of command and about 300 firefighters will be retrained amid a federal investigation into how firefighters are certified and assigned to specialty airport fire rigs, multiple sources have confirmed.

...The Federal Aviation Administration opened an investigation in July after someone reported that unqualified firefighters were staffing the federally mandated, specialized aircraft rescue vehicles at both O’Hare and Midway airports. Separately, the city inspector general’s office is investigating whether any city rules were broken.
"
 
chidino
Posts: 175
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:36 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:36 pm

BNAMealer wrote:
Planeboy17 wrote:
chidino wrote:

Actually, the "new capital program includes $561 million to finally finish improvements on the airport's sole east-side entrance": https://www.chicagobusiness.com/greg-hinz-politics/here-comes-huge-road-project-make-it-easier-get-ohare

"While some improvements have been made in recent years, with a three-mile stretch of Mannheim widened and Balmoral Avenue extended, a much bigger project to double the capacity of I-190 and redesign the I-190/Mannheim intersection (my emphasis) has (sic) stalled. Another $561 million was needed, according to the Illinois Department of Transportation, and the money was just not available.

But the new capital program enacted by the General Assembly will ensure the project finally gets back on track, says Deputy Gov. Christian Mitchell.

“It’s a priority project for the Pritzker administration,” Mitchell said. New revenue from doubling the state’s tax on gasoline tax and other sources “will allow us to accelerate the work and complete the final phase.”

None of that yet is reflected in IDOT’s official multiyear highway improvement program. But it will be when an updated program is announced later this year, Mitchell said.

If work goes as planned, engineering and design will take a year or two and construction would begin “in late 2021 or early 2022,” Mitchell said. When completed, 32 lane miles will have been rebuilt and 25 lane miles added."

Excellent find chidino!
Although it will be awhile I’m glad to see this finally happening. Let’s hope it happens sooner than later.
Although we bitch plenty about ORD, this entrance to 90 and 294 is great. Yes, it will be much better in the future but when traveling around to other airports around the country, you’ll soon see how lucky we are to have this infrastructure.
I’m looking at you LAX.


What will really help is when they put in new western access from the new IL-390/I-490. That should alleviate a fair amount from the east side.


The problem with west access is that the airlines have made it very clear they're not staffing two entrances and duplicating operations. Between security and baggage logistics, not to mention the opposition of the airlines, western access has quietly been dropped. Oh, there may eventually be concourses out west, and the new employee parking/shuttle center will be out there, but there isn't the space not the intention for there to be public access from the west. They just don't want to publicize it, but a look at the ORD21 bid documents doesn't indicate any space for public access (parking, terminal building, etc) much less plans for them. O'Hare's only 7,623 acres.

To illustrate the problem: how is an agent at any given airport in the world supposed to know that there are two baggage pickups at O'Hare and which will you be using? Even if baggage stayed at existing claim locations, you couldn't return to your car or westside pickup: the Inter-Terminal Train (CDA's name for the APM in the tunnel) is behind security, and you and your luggage are not.

(Is there any airport in the world with, effectively, two entrances? How do you handle baggage?)
 
tootshibbard
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:26 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:27 pm

piedmontf284000 wrote:
luckyone wrote:
OneX123 wrote:

Exactly my point, the Kennedy goes from 4 lanes down to 2 right near the airport Westin/Rosemont stop. This is where all the traffic originates from. The Kennedy could be 100 lanes but until that exit is fixed it's not going to get any better.

Taking the L is a poor option for most of Lincoln Park. Anything east of the highway and you still have to take a Taxi/Uber to get there. In my opinion, it's only a nice option if you have plenty of time, want to conserve $, or live on the line or close to Loop.

I'm not sure I agree that the L is a poor option for Lincoln Park. You can take either the Red or Brown Lines to the Loop. The major thoroughfares North, Fullerton, Diversy all have regular East-West bus service directly to the Blue Line. If you live closer to the lake you can also take one of the LSD Expresses numbered in the 130s or the LaSalle Street bus which stops locally along Lincoln Park to the LaSalle Blue Line Station. You can also take the Halsted Street Bus down to the Grand Avenue Blue Line station.


The Blue Line should have been connected to the Brown Line at Jefferson Park years ago. There is sufficient infrastructure at Jefferson Park with the Metra Stop, which is above the Blue Line station, to allow for a terminus station for the Brown Line. This would replace the current terminus station at Kimball and allow for an expansion Brown line track running straight down Lawrence Ave into Jefferson Park. As it stands now, anyone living in Lincoln Park has to backtrack south all the way into the Loop and then switch at Clark/Lake. Very inefficient and time consuming.

chidino wrote:
sircygnus wrote:

I could not agree more but I think the chances of 190 being expanded are probably near zero.


Actually, the "new capital program includes $561 million to finally finish improvements on the airport's sole east-side entrance": https://www.chicagobusiness.com/greg-hinz-politics/here-comes-huge-road-project-make-it-easier-get-ohare

"While some improvements have been made in recent years, with a three-mile stretch of Mannheim widened and Balmoral Avenue extended, a much bigger project to double the capacity of I-190 and redesign the I-190/Mannheim intersection (my emphasis) has (sic) stalled. Another $561 million was needed, according to the Illinois Department of Transportation, and the money was just not available.

But the new capital program enacted by the General Assembly will ensure the project finally gets back on track, says Deputy Gov. Christian Mitchell.

“It’s a priority project for the Pritzker administration,” Mitchell said. New revenue from doubling the state’s tax on gasoline tax and other sources “will allow us to accelerate the work and complete the final phase.”

None of that yet is reflected in IDOT’s official multiyear highway improvement program. But it will be when an updated program is announced later this year, Mitchell said.

If work goes as planned, engineering and design will take a year or two and construction would begin “in late 2021 or early 2022,” Mitchell said. When completed, 32 lane miles will have been rebuilt and 25 lane miles added."


Speaking of the Blue Line. If they are going to spend more than a half a billion dollars to widen I-190, then they might as well build a stop for the International Terminal (soon to be just known as Terminal 5). There is plenty of ability to do so because the widening of I-190 is going to open up enough space just north of the Terminal that would allow for a station and a walkover that would connect to the new garage/hotel that will be built in the current parking lot. It is also very inefficient for so many travelers and employees that work in T-5 to have to backtrack to the other terminals via the APC and then cross over the walkways into the Terminals, only to go underground and cross back over again to reach the O-Hare station.


Much more important IMO is an airside people mover to connect the future T2 and T5 to more easily transition for those that have connecting flights that are not on codeshare tickets.

While a CTA station at T5 would be nice it would likely be very expensive. Best to reorient the current T2 station and a new T2 ATS station so that there is a direct elevator connection between both with absolute minimal walking. I speculate this would be MUCH cheaper and nearly as good a solution as extending the Blue Line to T5.
 
tootshibbard
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:26 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:33 pm

piedmontf284000 wrote:
luckyone wrote:
OneX123 wrote:

Exactly my point, the Kennedy goes from 4 lanes down to 2 right near the airport Westin/Rosemont stop. This is where all the traffic originates from. The Kennedy could be 100 lanes but until that exit is fixed it's not going to get any better.

Taking the L is a poor option for most of Lincoln Park. Anything east of the highway and you still have to take a Taxi/Uber to get there. In my opinion, it's only a nice option if you have plenty of time, want to conserve $, or live on the line or close to Loop.

I'm not sure I agree that the L is a poor option for Lincoln Park. You can take either the Red or Brown Lines to the Loop. The major thoroughfares North, Fullerton, Diversy all have regular East-West bus service directly to the Blue Line. If you live closer to the lake you can also take one of the LSD Expresses numbered in the 130s or the LaSalle Street bus which stops locally along Lincoln Park to the LaSalle Blue Line Station. You can also take the Halsted Street Bus down to the Grand Avenue Blue Line station.


The Blue Line should have been connected to the Brown Line at Jefferson Park years ago. There is sufficient infrastructure at Jefferson Park with the Metra Stop, which is above the Blue Line station, to allow for a terminus station for the Brown Line. This would replace the current terminus station at Kimball and allow for an expansion Brown line track running straight down Lawrence Ave into Jefferson Park. As it stands now, anyone living in Lincoln Park has to backtrack south all the way into the Loop and then switch at Clark/Lake. Very inefficient and time consuming.

chidino wrote:
sircygnus wrote:

I could not agree more but I think the chances of 190 being expanded are probably near zero.


Actually, the "new capital program includes $561 million to finally finish improvements on the airport's sole east-side entrance": https://www.chicagobusiness.com/greg-hinz-politics/here-comes-huge-road-project-make-it-easier-get-ohare

"While some improvements have been made in recent years, with a three-mile stretch of Mannheim widened and Balmoral Avenue extended, a much bigger project to double the capacity of I-190 and redesign the I-190/Mannheim intersection (my emphasis) has (sic) stalled. Another $561 million was needed, according to the Illinois Department of Transportation, and the money was just not available.

But the new capital program enacted by the General Assembly will ensure the project finally gets back on track, says Deputy Gov. Christian Mitchell.

“It’s a priority project for the Pritzker administration,” Mitchell said. New revenue from doubling the state’s tax on gasoline tax and other sources “will allow us to accelerate the work and complete the final phase.”

None of that yet is reflected in IDOT’s official multiyear highway improvement program. But it will be when an updated program is announced later this year, Mitchell said.

If work goes as planned, engineering and design will take a year or two and construction would begin “in late 2021 or early 2022,” Mitchell said. When completed, 32 lane miles will have been rebuilt and 25 lane miles added."


Speaking of the Blue Line. If they are going to spend more than a half a billion dollars to widen I-190, then they might as well build a stop for the International Terminal (soon to be just known as Terminal 5). There is plenty of ability to do so because the widening of I-190 is going to open up enough space just north of the Terminal that would allow for a station and a walkover that would connect to the new garage/hotel that will be built in the current parking lot. It is also very inefficient for so many travelers and employees that work in T-5 to have to backtrack to the other terminals via the APC and then cross over the walkways into the Terminals, only to go underground and cross back over again to reach the O-Hare station.


Much more important IMO is an airside people mover to connect the future T2 and T5 to more easily transition for those that have connecting flights that are not on codeshare tickets.

While a CTA station at T5 would be nice it would likely be very expensive. Best to reorient the current T2 station and a new T2 ATS station so that there is a direct elevator connection between both with absolute minimal walking. I speculate this would be MUCH cheaper and nearly as good a solution as extending the Blue Line to T5.
 
User avatar
yeogeo
Posts: 1216
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:03 am

email from the CDA today:
"Chicago Department of Aviation - Bid Opportunity
Terminal 5 Concourse M Extension, Core Expansion & Repurposing at O'Hare
Austin Power Partners has issued an opportunity to prequalify for the following:

Caissons, General Contractor for Enabling Work

Note: Tier Subcontractor and Suppliers need not prequalify

Specification Number: 376113

BP Number: 01

Prequalification Notice Date: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 at 8:00 AM

The overall project at Terminal 5 encapsulates every part of the building and roadways/apron around the building. An east extension will add much needed gates and new concessions space, the core expansion will add holdroom and concession space, renovations to the TSA Security lines and FIS/US Customs space will make the terminal more efficient, upgrades to the HVAC and Electrical Systems, and a new baggage handling system.

Prequalification Information Due: Tuesday, October 8, 2019
Time: 11:00 A.M. C.S.T ..."
 
chicawgo
Posts: 391
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:09 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:51 am

tootshibbard wrote:
piedmontf284000 wrote:
luckyone wrote:
I'm not sure I agree that the L is a poor option for Lincoln Park. You can take either the Red or Brown Lines to the Loop. The major thoroughfares North, Fullerton, Diversy all have regular East-West bus service directly to the Blue Line. If you live closer to the lake you can also take one of the LSD Expresses numbered in the 130s or the LaSalle Street bus which stops locally along Lincoln Park to the LaSalle Blue Line Station. You can also take the Halsted Street Bus down to the Grand Avenue Blue Line station.


The Blue Line should have been connected to the Brown Line at Jefferson Park years ago. There is sufficient infrastructure at Jefferson Park with the Metra Stop, which is above the Blue Line station, to allow for a terminus station for the Brown Line. This would replace the current terminus station at Kimball and allow for an expansion Brown line track running straight down Lawrence Ave into Jefferson Park. As it stands now, anyone living in Lincoln Park has to backtrack south all the way into the Loop and then switch at Clark/Lake. Very inefficient and time consuming.

chidino wrote:

Actually, the "new capital program includes $561 million to finally finish improvements on the airport's sole east-side entrance": https://www.chicagobusiness.com/greg-hinz-politics/here-comes-huge-road-project-make-it-easier-get-ohare

"While some improvements have been made in recent years, with a three-mile stretch of Mannheim widened and Balmoral Avenue extended, a much bigger project to double the capacity of I-190 and redesign the I-190/Mannheim intersection (my emphasis) has (sic) stalled. Another $561 million was needed, according to the Illinois Department of Transportation, and the money was just not available.

But the new capital program enacted by the General Assembly will ensure the project finally gets back on track, says Deputy Gov. Christian Mitchell.

“It’s a priority project for the Pritzker administration,” Mitchell said. New revenue from doubling the state’s tax on gasoline tax and other sources “will allow us to accelerate the work and complete the final phase.”

None of that yet is reflected in IDOT’s official multiyear highway improvement program. But it will be when an updated program is announced later this year, Mitchell said.

If work goes as planned, engineering and design will take a year or two and construction would begin “in late 2021 or early 2022,” Mitchell said. When completed, 32 lane miles will have been rebuilt and 25 lane miles added."


Speaking of the Blue Line. If they are going to spend more than a half a billion dollars to widen I-190, then they might as well build a stop for the International Terminal (soon to be just known as Terminal 5). There is plenty of ability to do so because the widening of I-190 is going to open up enough space just north of the Terminal that would allow for a station and a walkover that would connect to the new garage/hotel that will be built in the current parking lot. It is also very inefficient for so many travelers and employees that work in T-5 to have to backtrack to the other terminals via the APC and then cross over the walkways into the Terminals, only to go underground and cross back over again to reach the O-Hare station.


Much more important IMO is an airside people mover to connect the future T2 and T5 to more easily transition for those that have connecting flights that are not on codeshare tickets.

While a CTA station at T5 would be nice it would likely be very expensive. Best to reorient the current T2 station and a new T2 ATS station so that there is a direct elevator connection between both with absolute minimal walking. I speculate this would be MUCH cheaper and nearly as good a solution as extending the Blue Line to T5.


It would be nice to have but honestly it would be for so few passengers that it would be insane to spend the exorbitant amount of money that would cost. The whole setup of the new terminal layout is to facilitate codeshare and alliance connections. There are so few people putting together their own non-alliance connections it would be ridiculous to spend the $1 billion plus it would cost.
 
BNAMealer
Posts: 245
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:53 am

chidino wrote:
The problem with west access is that the airlines have made it very clear they're not staffing two entrances and duplicating operations. Between security and baggage logistics, not to mention the opposition of the airlines, western access has quietly been dropped. Oh, there may eventually be concourses out west, and the new employee parking/shuttle center will be out there, but there isn't the space not the intention for there to be public access from the west. They just don't want to publicize it, but a look at the ORD21 bid documents doesn't indicate any space for public access (parking, terminal building, etc) much less plans for them. O'Hare's only 7,623 acres.

To illustrate the problem: how is an agent at any given airport in the world supposed to know that there are two baggage pickups at O'Hare and which will you be using? Even if baggage stayed at existing claim locations, you couldn't return to your car or westside pickup: the Inter-Terminal Train (CDA's name for the APM in the tunnel) is behind security, and you and your luggage are not.

(Is there any airport in the world with, effectively, two entrances? How do you handle baggage?)


I'm sorry, but the bolded statements are simply not true. If those statements were true, they wouldn't be building the EOE/I-490 project. Long term plans do have a western screening facility/baggage drop-off for passengers. It may not happen for a while, but it will. Wasn't it discussed a while back that the trigger point for completing the tunnel and APM to the west was 100,000,000 passengers?

You also have to remember by the time it is built, technology will allow for minimal to no airline staffing required at the western access facility. Since people

BTW: ATL has two entrances, west side for domestic and east side for international. And ATL is only 4,700 acres.
 
chidino
Posts: 175
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:18 am

BNAMealer wrote:
chidino wrote:
The problem with west access is that the airlines have made it very clear they're not staffing two entrances and duplicating operations. Between security and baggage logistics, not to mention the opposition of the airlines, western access has quietly been dropped. Oh, there may eventually be concourses out west, and the new employee parking/shuttle center will be out there, but there isn't the space not the intention for there to be public access from the west. They just don't want to publicize it, but a look at the ORD21 bid documents doesn't indicate any space for public access (parking, terminal building, etc) much less plans for them. O'Hare's only 7,623 acres.

To illustrate the problem: how is an agent at any given airport in the world supposed to know that there are two baggage pickups at O'Hare and which will you be using? Even if baggage stayed at existing claim locations, you couldn't return to your car or westside pickup: the Inter-Terminal Train (CDA's name for the APM in the tunnel) is behind security, and you and your luggage are not.

(Is there any airport in the world with, effectively, two entrances? How do you handle baggage?)


I'm sorry, but the bolded statements are simply not true. If those statements were true, they wouldn't be building the EOE/I-490 project. Long term plans do have a western screening facility/baggage drop-off for passengers. It may not happen for a while, but it will. Wasn't it discussed a while back that the trigger point for completing the tunnel and APM to the west was 100,000,000 passengers?

You also have to remember by the time it is built, technology will allow for minimal to no airline staffing required at the western access facility. Since people

BTW: ATL has two entrances, west side for domestic and east side for international. And ATL is only 4,700 acres.


I apologize for mistakenly believing that the section regarding western access wasn't there. (Since I never took it seriously, I blanked it out.)

I do find it funny that you think there is any sort of coordination between the I-490 project (the Tollway) and anything else. The Tollway has turned into its own self-perpetuating machine, but that's another story. Ironically, though, the Tollway is helping, a lot. "Western access" has, instead, turned into a more far-ranging program that finally completes Elgin-O'Hare and provides for a high-speed ring around the airport. There's only going to be one entrance for pax, so they're making the access to the entrance far better.

As to Phase II, yes, there's a reference to the western parking/screening facility. But I would point out this:

CHANGES IN RROJECT SCORE REQUIRING MM REVIEW: (1) Change in tunnel origin or
destination, or (2) elimination of APM right-of-way or sterile corridor for international
passengers from the tunnel capability, or (3) Reductions to the tunnel dimensions for the
tug/baggage clearances and widths, or (4) Removal of pedestrian moving walkways.

They can delete western access without review. The gestures are there, but I think Chicago reality has already killed any chance this will happen. Why would the airlines pay for it? (Are western pax going to use another airport?) Why would 50 members of the City Council vote for it?
 
chidino
Posts: 175
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:56 am

BNAMealer wrote:
BTW: ATL has two entrances, west side for domestic and east side for international. And ATL is only 4,700 acres.


My point was two different destinations at a single airport for customers and baggage, an utterly impracticable suggestion. There are no provisions in worldwide baggage handling for anything other than singular destinations.
 
heretothere
Posts: 69
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:50 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 3:55 pm

[twoid][/twoid]
chidino wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
BTW: ATL has two entrances, west side for domestic and east side for international. And ATL is only 4,700 acres.


My point was two different destinations at a single airport for customers and baggage, an utterly impracticable suggestion. There are no provisions in worldwide baggage handling for anything other than singular destinations.


Like he said, ATL has terminal and baggage facilities at both the main terminal and terminal/concourse F. Another example is LAS, where some airlines at concourse D use terminal 1, while others use terminal 3.
 
chicawgo
Posts: 391
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:09 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:07 pm

heretothere wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
chidino wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
BTW: ATL has two entrances, west side for domestic and east side for international. And ATL is only 4,700 acres.


My point was two different destinations at a single airport for customers and baggage, an utterly impracticable suggestion. There are no provisions in worldwide baggage handling for anything other than singular destinations.


Like he said, ATL has terminal and baggage facilities at both the main terminal and terminal/concourse F. Another example is LAS, where some airlines at concourse D use terminal 1, while others use terminal 3.


No. That’s not the point. That separates domestic and international. The suggestion was that there would be two different possible places for the same luggage to go. And that is still absolutely impractical. In ATL, you must go to one based on intl or domestic.
 
heretothere
Posts: 69
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:50 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:18 pm

chicawgo wrote:
heretothere wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
chidino wrote:

My point was two different destinations at a single airport for customers and baggage, an utterly impracticable suggestion. There are no provisions in worldwide baggage handling for anything other than singular destinations.


Like he said, ATL has terminal and baggage facilities at both the main terminal and terminal/concourse F. Another example is LAS, where some airlines at concourse D use terminal 1, while others use terminal 3.


No. That’s not the point. That separates domestic and international. The suggestion was that there would be two different possible places for the same luggage to go. And that is still absolutely impractical. In ATL, you must go to one based on intl or domestic.


Ok, then what about LAS? Concourse D domestic baggage might go to terminal 1 or terminal 3 depending on the airline. I’m not following why it would be so complex to have split facilities.
 
chicawgo
Posts: 391
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:05 pm

heretothere wrote:
chicawgo wrote:
heretothere wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]

Like he said, ATL has terminal and baggage facilities at both the main terminal and terminal/concourse F. Another example is LAS, where some airlines at concourse D use terminal 1, while others use terminal 3.


No. That’s not the point. That separates domestic and international. The suggestion was that there would be two different possible places for the same luggage to go. And that is still absolutely impractical. In ATL, you must go to one based on intl or domestic.


Ok, then what about LAS? Concourse D domestic baggage might go to terminal 1 or terminal 3 depending on the airline. I’m not following why it would be so complex to have split facilities.


You answered your own question. They are different airlines. You go to the baggage claim/terminal associated with your airline. It’s actually the same at ORD. If you arrive at E or F you go to T1 for United and T2 for AC and DL.

The suggestion was to have multiple locations FOR THE SAME AIRLINE DOMESTIC AND INTERNATIONAL. There would be no practical way to do that. If western access is built, it would have to be for specific airlines. It’s just not practical.

If people in western burbs want easier access to ORD, I have a perfect suggestion. Move to the city!
 
CleSyrRoc
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:10 pm

If you go to the FH Paschen Facebook page, there is an EXCELLENT overhead view of the 9C-27C Construction.
 
User avatar
yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:32 pm

CleSyrRoc wrote:
If you go to the FH Paschen Facebook page, there is an EXCELLENT overhead view of the 9C-27C Construction.


copy the web address of the site of the photo and post it here - I saw nothing on the subject in a scroll through.
 
CleSyrRoc
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue May 21, 2019 2:47 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:35 am

Try this:

https://www.facebook.com/FHPaschen/vide ... nf&__xts__[0]=68.ARAVgRiHR4QR-VnePYrqg0rj5L8KvBtqsS3_b3ak5Da9OyTOv7aKvz6bxEBCDX0cGsYFqggGfIC4FQm4Q6Sawn6N5snp1vUO1g4-CVY3dEL6q9iWLFqSkw_Ft9Gigg2EW9f2IyusSOB0Yx08hzMrv1R4X6Z4m-1kUhgtxvzJkGhDcyiHj6qNtPvD4ORE5SpiiaRk_iU5H2NiX5wi5e97ICDxAjxxfZDllo3MTZM4CofKn9q9JLTlcegxmBs13SnZlf1THLXDnMagYrgm6I6zoJL8Uqyu4NC1tYP1WYNHc9jTePsjgC0bxkOMIK5yx3NDmtl49SRMZeemOyV-LoK6rOIaU2P4ejE8Hgecdg
 
chidino
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:18 pm

It's even better on a big monitor; the HD makes it worthwhile. Thanks!
Last edited by chidino on Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
chidino
Posts: 175
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:23 pm

Greg Hinz in Crain's today: Here’s how O’Hare’s $8.5 billion makeover is moving along

City Aviation Commissioner Jamie Rhee gives an update on the huge terminal expansion project that was started by Emanuel but now is Lightfoot's job to complete.

"...For starters, construction is scheduled to begin within two weeks on the last of the new runways envisioned as part of the overall O'Hare remap. That's an extension of 9R/27L to roughly 11,224 feet long, a $340 million job due to be completed in 2021.

The final full new runway is due to open in the second half of next year. That's a strip of concrete 11,245 feet long and 200 feet wide.

Even without those runways, O’Hare has been able to cut flight delays 63 percent since runway work began a decade ago, Rhee said. When the last two are done, the airport will have a much more efficient structure of two sets of parallel runways at its center, with single runways at its north and south ends.

Construction also will start soon on a 10-gate expansion of Terminal 5, which now serves only international flights but is being converted to dual use. Preliminary site preparation already is under way.

When completed, Delta Airlines will shift its entire O'Hare operation to the west end of Terminal 5, with foreign-flag carriers dominating at the other end."

There's more about concessions, politics, and -- drum roll -- apparently the Mayor likes Jeanne Gang, so there's that.
 
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United787
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:35 pm

chidino wrote:
Greg Hinz in Crain's today: Here’s how O’Hare’s $8.5 billion makeover is moving along

City Aviation Commissioner Jamie Rhee gives an update on the huge terminal expansion project that was started by Emanuel but now is Lightfoot's job to complete.

"...For starters, construction is scheduled to begin within two weeks on the last of the new runways envisioned as part of the overall O'Hare remap. That's an extension of 9R/27L to roughly 11,224 feet long, a $340 million job due to be completed in 2021.

The final full new runway is due to open in the second half of next year. That's a strip of concrete 11,245 feet long and 200 feet wide.

Even without those runways, O’Hare has been able to cut flight delays 63 percent since runway work began a decade ago, Rhee said. When the last two are done, the airport will have a much more efficient structure of two sets of parallel runways at its center, with single runways at its north and south ends.

Construction also will start soon on a 10-gate expansion of Terminal 5, which now serves only international flights but is being converted to dual use. Preliminary site preparation already is under way.

When completed, Delta Airlines will shift its entire O'Hare operation to the west end of Terminal 5, with foreign-flag carriers dominating at the other end."

There's more about concessions, politics, and -- drum roll -- apparently the Mayor likes Jeanne Gang, so there's that.


Some interesting things:

1. I would have thought they would have finished 9C/27C before starting on 9R/27L unless they can keep 9R/27L open during some of the extension construction. But I would think that having construction happening so close to the west end of the runway would require it to be closed?

2. Did we previously know where DL would be in the new T5? It makes sense that they would take the older western section with the mostly narrowbodies they will be using and the new eastern section would be better designed to accommodate the widebodies to today's standards.

3. The fact that caissons contract is getting ready to be let makes it clear that the T5 design is in the final details now. I would expect a full construction contract in the next month or two...
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:14 pm

CleSyrRoc wrote:

:thumbsup:


United787 wrote:
chidino wrote:
Greg Hinz in Crain's today: Here’s how O’Hare’s $8.5 billion makeover is moving along

City Aviation Commissioner Jamie Rhee gives an update on the huge terminal expansion project that was started by Emanuel but now is Lightfoot's job to complete.

"...For starters, construction is scheduled to begin within two weeks on the last of the new runways envisioned as part of the overall O'Hare remap. That's an extension of 9R/27L to roughly 11,224 feet long, a $340 million job due to be completed in 2021.

The final full new runway is due to open in the second half of next year. That's a strip of concrete 11,245 feet long and 200 feet wide.

Even without those runways, O’Hare has been able to cut flight delays 63 percent since runway work began a decade ago, Rhee said. When the last two are done, the airport will have a much more efficient structure of two sets of parallel runways at its center, with single runways at its north and south ends.

Construction also will start soon on a 10-gate expansion of Terminal 5, which now serves only international flights but is being converted to dual use. Preliminary site preparation already is under way.

When completed, Delta Airlines will shift its entire O'Hare operation to the west end of Terminal 5, with foreign-flag carriers dominating at the other end."

There's more about concessions, politics, and -- drum roll -- apparently the Mayor likes Jeanne Gang, so there's that.


Some interesting things:

1. I would have thought they would have finished 9C/27C before starting on 9R/27L unless they can keep 9R/27L open during some of the extension construction. But I would think that having construction happening so close to the west end of the runway would require it to be closed?

2. Did we previously know where DL would be in the new T5? It makes sense that they would take the older western section with the mostly narrowbodies they will be using and the new eastern section would be better designed to accommodate the widebodies to today's standards.

3. The fact that caissons contract is getting ready to be let makes it clear that the T5 design is in the final details now. I would expect a full construction contract in the next month or two...


The location of Delta in T-5 in the west part was news to me as well, and as you say, makes sense.

Sorry to be dense, but I don't think I know who all the domestic T-5 gate users are going to be. Do we know for sure? Frontier and Delta, got that. Alaska? Spirit? Air Choice One? New entrants? Or just the first two?
 
BNAMealer
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:49 pm

yeogeo wrote:
Sorry to be dense, but I don't think I know who all the domestic T-5 gate users are going to be. Do we know for sure? Frontier and Delta, got that. Alaska? Spirit? Air Choice One? New entrants? Or just the first two?


I would imagine AS stays in T3 if they join OW connect, otherwise, everyone goes to T5 once the OGT is built.

Speaking of which, do we know a tentative groundbreaking date for the satellite concourses?
 
ZBA2CGX
Posts: 113
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 27, 2019 1:11 pm

United787 wrote:
chidino wrote:
Greg Hinz in Crain's today: Here’s how O’Hare’s $8.5 billion makeover is moving along

Some interesting things:

1. I would have thought they would have finished 9C/27C before starting on 9R/27L unless they can keep 9R/27L open during some of the extension construction. But I would think that having construction happening so close to the west end of the runway would require it to be closed?

..


In the Crains article, there is a image that states 9C/27C opens in 2020 and 9R/27L in 2021. Not sure how they are going complete the extension of 9R/27L in one year...
https://s3-prod.chicagobusiness.com/sty ... rfield.jpg
 
airstatdfw
Posts: 363
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:59 pm

ZBA2CGX wrote:
United787 wrote:
chidino wrote:
Greg Hinz in Crain's today: Here’s how O’Hare’s $8.5 billion makeover is moving along

Some interesting things:

1. I would have thought they would have finished 9C/27C before starting on 9R/27L unless they can keep 9R/27L open during some of the extension construction. But I would think that having construction happening so close to the west end of the runway would require it to be closed?

..


In the Crains article, there is a image that states 9C/27C opens in 2020 and 9R/27L in 2021. Not sure how they are going complete the extension of 9R/27L in one year...
https://s3-prod.chicagobusiness.com/sty ... rfield.jpg


They have started on the 27L ext from Z and working east at the moment. Spring of 2021 they will close 27L and resurface the existing Rwy and tie into the new portion that they are building now.
 
chidino
Posts: 175
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Sep 28, 2019 12:28 am

ZBA2CGX wrote:
United787 wrote:
chidino wrote:
Greg Hinz in Crain's today: Here’s how O’Hare’s $8.5 billion makeover is moving along

Some interesting things:

1. I would have thought they would have finished 9C/27C before starting on 9R/27L unless they can keep 9R/27L open during some of the extension construction. But I would think that having construction happening so close to the west end of the runway would require it to be closed?

..


In the Crains article, there is a image that states 9C/27C opens in 2020 and 9R/27L in 2021. Not sure how they are going complete the extension of 9R/27L in one year...
https://s3-prod.chicagobusiness.com/sty ... rfield.jpg


IIRC, that's an older CDA slide from a presentation around the last OMP bond issuance, so a couple years ago. As you pointed out, 2020 won't work.
 
chidino
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:50 am

chicawgo wrote:
chidino wrote:
I know it's been asked before, but any current pictures of 9C/27C and/or the north side of the airfield would be incredibly welcome. Anything.


Great shots -- thanks. Nice to see the construction at the Z end of (when complete) 9R/27L.
 
CleSyrRoc
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 29, 2019 2:53 pm

If your not looking for it, it's easy to miss that in the FH Paschen shot of the 9C/27C construction, the re-do of 4L/22R is nearly complete/done. It looks like they ended up with a significant portion of new runway there.

Its great to hear about the extension of 9R/27L getting going as well.

The completion of the OMP will surely go down as a great civil construction feat in history. Say what you want about government, the city, etc... At the end of the day, they had a problem, had a vision, and got the job done.
 
gabik001
Posts: 291
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2005 9:16 am

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:59 am

Just noticed that German DHL aircraft A33F landed as BCS694 from LEJ. Looks like it was yesterday too. ETD @ 8.50am this morning as BCS695. I will try to get her. Once we got west arrivals I will try 10L as departure runway.
Seems to be daily regular flight from LEJ, also I heard that DHL will start new service from HKG via ANC and JFK to ORD on B77F.
Canon 50D gripped + Canon 70D + 17-40 L + 24-105 L IS + 50 f/1.8 STM + 100-400L IS USM + Sigma 150-600 S
 
Galvan316
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 5:43 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:14 pm

Anyone know how Air New Zealand, TAP and Ethiopian are doing into ORD?
ORD and MDW is where youll find Me!
 
Delta28L
Posts: 245
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:00 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:16 pm

gabik001 wrote:
Just noticed that German DHL aircraft A33F landed as BCS694 from LEJ. Looks like it was yesterday too. ETD @ 8.50am this morning as BCS695. I will try to get her. Once we got west arrivals I will try 10L as departure runway.
Seems to be daily regular flight from LEJ, also I heard that DHL will start new service from HKG via ANC and JFK to ORD on B77F.


It’s part of DHL plan to relive the CVG hub
 
gabik001
Posts: 291
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2005 9:16 am

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:51 pm

Delta28L wrote:
gabik001 wrote:
Just noticed that German DHL aircraft A33F landed as BCS694 from LEJ. Looks like it was yesterday too. ETD @ 8.50am this morning as BCS695. I will try to get her. Once we got west arrivals I will try 10L as departure runway.
Seems to be daily regular flight from LEJ, also I heard that DHL will start new service from HKG via ANC and JFK to ORD on B77F.


It’s part of DHL plan to relive the CVG hub

Is Aerologic involved in that ? I saw 3S B77F a/c last weekend painted in DHL c/s. I know that GEC+DHL=BOX :lol:
Canon 50D gripped + Canon 70D + 17-40 L + 24-105 L IS + 50 f/1.8 STM + 100-400L IS USM + Sigma 150-600 S
 
emcm541
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:59 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:02 pm

Is Virgin Atlantic sending a one-off flight to Chicago for the Bears Game in London?

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/VIR650
 
CleSyrRoc
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue May 21, 2019 2:47 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:36 pm

New picture from FH Paschen of a combination of work on 9C/27C and the 9R/27L extension. As you would assume based on their plan to keep 9R/27L open as long as posible during construction, it looks like they are starting at the West end and plan on working their way East.

https://www.facebook.com/FHPaschen/phot ... =1&theater
 
trueblew
Posts: 46
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:16 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:39 pm

chicawgo wrote:
OneX123 wrote:
sircygnus wrote:

I could not agree more but I think the chances of 190 being expanded are probably near zero.


I frequent ORD, BOS, ATL, and LGA often on Monday mornings and the constant traffic to ORD is unbelievable. Two lanes from downtown to ORD is just insufficient. Traffic starts to slow up at 5:15am, if not earlier, and any accident causes unbelievable delays. I left Lincoln Park at 5:20am last Monday and a vehicle fire had traffic backed up almost all the way to Fullerton Ave exit. I don't see how this is sustainable in the near-term.


2 lanes from downtown?? The Kennedy has 4 local and 6 when express are open. Then it's 3 after the junction and they're currently adding a 4th from Harlem.

And I have 3 words for you: "Take the EL"


Take the L?! Spend an hour in the homeless-camp-on-tracks, with its associated smells, unidentified liquids, peddlers, smokers, and the mentally ill screaming at random passengers and punching out windows?

When will Chicago and the CTA start enforcing current laws and clean up the trains? It's what many tourists first experience when going to Chicago and it's shameful.
 
ORDfan
Posts: 555
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 6:02 am

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:23 am

emcm541 wrote:
Is Virgin Atlantic sending a one-off flight to Chicago for the Bears Game in London?

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/VIR650


That's a good guess. I woulda thought they'd fly United since they are the official airline sponsor, but not sure how the charters work. The team is supposed to fly out tomorrow night for a Friday arrival, so the timing would work.
 
ORDfan
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Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 6:02 am

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:27 am

Delete
 
ORDfan
Posts: 555
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 6:02 am

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:35 am

yeogeo wrote:
OAG released its Megahubs Index for 2019.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/london-h ... 00140.html
"The analysis reveals the Top 50 most internationally connected airports in the world and the Top 25 most domestically connected airports in the U.S."

Chicago O'Hare is #3 on the most internationally connected list, being supplanted at number two by FRA. LHR is #1 here, as always.

Other North American airports in the top 50 internationally:
#6 YYZ
#8 ATL
#13 LAX
#15 MEX
#18 JFK
#19 DFW
#20 MIA
#21 IAH
#23 EWR
#27 YVR
#31 SFO
#37 SEA
#41 YUL
#44 BOS

There is a link in the article which will provide you, given your name and email address, a list of the top 50 international, the top 25 low-cost (Midway is #18), and the top 25 US (ORD is #1) airports according to OAG's formula.

"[ORD] retains its place as the largest US Domestic Megahub in 2019. With a Connectivity Index score of 459, the airport ranks well ahead of other US airports for connectivity. On the busiest day this year a total of 83,580 possible connections were possible between domestic scheduled flights within a three hour time window at ORD..."


This is seriously amazing and I feel lucky to call this place my home airport: 3rd most internationally connected airport, behind only LHR and FRA. Of course, being on the continent greatly aids their international factor, which makes O'hare's position as the only non-european airport in the top 5 that much more impressive. #MEGAHUB

That is the coolest club to be in, IMO.

Here's the top 5:

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