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blockski
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:15 pm

msp747 wrote:
blockski wrote:
A few things from this past week's MWAA Board Meeting:

They're re-organizing the rental car companies at Dulles: https://www.mwaa.com/sites/default/file ... irport.pdf

For air traffic: United's expansion at IAD continues, UA is up 10% year over year at IAD: https://www.mwaa.com/sites/default/file ... report.pdf

Progress report with some pictures on DCA expansion "Project Journey," including some photos of the steel mesh that will separate the ticketing area from the newly secure National Hall. Also some pictures of the structural steel that's going up now for the new concourse. https://www.mwaa.com/sites/default/file ... ourney.pdf

I am probably wrong, but isn't the plan to build a consolidated rental car facility at IAD? Seems strange to have them reorganize the current setup if the plan is to replace them in the not so distant future.


That may still be the long term plan, but it's clearly not going to happen anytime soon. This new contract is for 7 years, and it sure seems quite clear that IAD won't be building a ConRAC in the next 7 years.

Also, the linked documents don't contain the contract language, but I wouldn't be surprised if the airport retains some kind of out clause if they want to build a ConRAC earlier than the next 7 years.

The other thing is that I'm not sure what MWAA's plans are for landside circulation at IAD. There was a concept for a landside people mover; there are shuttle buses; the Metro station will be new and there are lots of potential redevelopment areas that MWAA should pursue...
 
RicFlyer
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:07 pm

Richmond International Airport sets another record in May for monthly passenger traffic

Passenger traffic at Richmond International Airport in May set another record for any month. The airport handled 392,263 passengers in May, surpassing the previous mark set in August, the Capital Region Airport Commission reported Tuesday. This is the fifth time since October 2017 that a one-month record has been established at the airport. May’s passenger traffic marked a 9.7% increase compared with the same month in 2018. For the first 11 months of the current fiscal year, passenger traffic is up 12.5%.

Most major airlines reported year-over-year gains for May, led by United Airlines (up 17.78%), American Airlines (14.57%), JetBlue Airways (up 12.72%), Spirit Airlines (up 11.70%) and Delta Air Lines (2.43%). Southwest Airlines had a 13.19% year-over-year decline. Allegiant, which is offering twice-weekly nonstop service to four markets, reported an 89.9% increase in its passenger count.

Delta remained the airport’s largest carrier with a 32.03% market share. American was next with a 29.70% share, followed by United (14.81%), JetBlue (11.48%), Southwest Airlines (5.35%) and Spirit Airlines
(4.01%).

https://www.richmond.com/business/local ... e3f98.html

Still dreaming of service to LAS or LAX. WN is expanding in August with new flights to MCO and TPA.
 
Cmac787
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:51 pm

UA puts 2 CRJ's on Z9 and Z10 on the 5pm bank. Sun Country has moved to gate B70 old Jetblue gate
 
capitalflyer
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:03 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
ITB wrote:
Together, these two developments prime the potential for commercial airline service at RMN in the not too distant future, perhaps in the next 10 years or so. At Stafford Regional, as at JYO, a remote air traffic control tower may be a feasible possibility. At the same time, it may be even more feasible to expand the remote facility at JYO to accommodate RMN. And, with a 6,000 ft runway, RMN will be able to accommodate the now standard 76-seat regional jet, including the forthcoming Mitsubishi SpaceJet M100.

I think you brought up the discussion of commercial service at RMN on here a while back. In my opinion, it's extremely far-fetched, and I can't see any possibility of it happening anytime soon. HEF would be a stronger candidate, and even that's pretty unlikely beyond the occasional scheduled charter op. At least some of the infrastructure already exists at HEF, and it's already an FAA towered airport.

RMN definitely will not get a tower or remote tower at any point in the foreseeable future — there's no funding, and there's no necessity. Don't forget this is the government we're talking about here! The FAA hasn't even stepped in to take over the ATCT at Phoenix-Mesa Gateway from Serco; IWA handled nearly a quarter of a million passengers in March. I also believe that JYO was chosen for the remote tower testing precisely because it didn't handle commercial traffic. Remote towers will only be implemented at existing FAA facilities without (significant) commercial ops, and I don't anticipate that changing for quite some time. Remote towers won't really save the Agency a whole lot of money for the time being, so it shouldn't really be considered a budget alternative to a manned tower.


No way commercial service is coming to RMN. Only 40-50 miles from both IAD and DCA and 70 to RIC. No money to be made here.
 
capitalflyer
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:10 pm

winstonavgeek wrote:
A bit of news that has not been discussed in this thread as of late: Air France will be increasing their winter IAD service from 7 to 11 weekly with the new flight operating on Monday, Thursday, Saturday, and Sunday using A330s
Source: https://corporate.airfrance.com/en/news ... r-schedule


Is this a cut in capacity? Currently AF uses an A388 and 777 on this route.
 
DCA350
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:12 pm

capitalflyer wrote:
winstonavgeek wrote:
A bit of news that has not been discussed in this thread as of late: Air France will be increasing their winter IAD service from 7 to 11 weekly with the new flight operating on Monday, Thursday, Saturday, and Sunday using A330s
Source: https://corporate.airfrance.com/en/news ... r-schedule


Is this a cut in capacity? Currently AF uses an A388 and 777 on this route.


Do they use the A380 in the winter? I thought it was spring-fall.

Sidenote, impressive that while AF has struggled to deploy the A380 throughout it's network, IAD has been a winner for them.. I wonder why it was such a bad fit for BA, who have a much larger presence @ IAD.
Last edited by DCA350 on Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:15 pm

capitalflyer wrote:
winstonavgeek wrote:
A bit of news that has not been discussed in this thread as of late: Air France will be increasing their winter IAD service from 7 to 11 weekly with the new flight operating on Monday, Thursday, Saturday, and Sunday using A330s
Source: https://corporate.airfrance.com/en/news ... r-schedule


Is this a cut in capacity? Currently AF uses an A388 and 777 on this route.

They only operate the A380 in the summer. In the winter, it cuts back to a daily 777.
 
capitalflyer
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:22 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
capitalflyer wrote:
winstonavgeek wrote:
A bit of news that has not been discussed in this thread as of late: Air France will be increasing their winter IAD service from 7 to 11 weekly with the new flight operating on Monday, Thursday, Saturday, and Sunday using A330s
Source: https://corporate.airfrance.com/en/news ... r-schedule


Is this a cut in capacity? Currently AF uses an A388 and 777 on this route.

They only operate the A380 in the summer. In the winter, it cuts back to a daily 777.


OK, so year over year it would be increased capacity with more frequency. Thanks!
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:24 pm

capitalflyer wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
capitalflyer wrote:

Is this a cut in capacity? Currently AF uses an A388 and 777 on this route.

They only operate the A380 in the summer. In the winter, it cuts back to a daily 777.


OK, so year over year it would be increased capacity with more frequency. Thanks!

Yes. It's nice to see that they can support more than once daily year round now. I'm curious to see if IAD will continue to see the A380 after AF starts removing some from the fleet. I suspect not.
 
capitalflyer
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:32 pm

blockski wrote:
msp747 wrote:
blockski wrote:
A few things from this past week's MWAA Board Meeting:

They're re-organizing the rental car companies at Dulles: https://www.mwaa.com/sites/default/file ... irport.pdf

For air traffic: United's expansion at IAD continues, UA is up 10% year over year at IAD: https://www.mwaa.com/sites/default/file ... report.pdf

Progress report with some pictures on DCA expansion "Project Journey," including some photos of the steel mesh that will separate the ticketing area from the newly secure National Hall. Also some pictures of the structural steel that's going up now for the new concourse. https://www.mwaa.com/sites/default/file ... ourney.pdf

I am probably wrong, but isn't the plan to build a consolidated rental car facility at IAD? Seems strange to have them reorganize the current setup if the plan is to replace them in the not so distant future.


That may still be the long term plan, but it's clearly not going to happen anytime soon. This new contract is for 7 years, and it sure seems quite clear that IAD won't be building a ConRAC in the next 7 years.

Also, the linked documents don't contain the contract language, but I wouldn't be surprised if the airport retains some kind of out clause if they want to build a ConRAC earlier than the next 7 years.

The other thing is that I'm not sure what MWAA's plans are for landside circulation at IAD. There was a concept for a landside people mover; there are shuttle buses; the Metro station will be new and there are lots of potential redevelopment areas that MWAA should pursue...


Reorganizing makes sense, putting together affiliates with their parent companies. This will make for more efficient shuttle usage. Maybe even eliminate some shuttle bus traffic if everyone is going to one place instead of needing a thrifty shuttle and a hertz shuttle. This will just simplify operations for the operators. I doubt any of them will be making any huge changes, but being able to put inventory in same lot, etc. will provide efficiencies.

I agree it will probably be 7 years before plans are in the works for a centralized rental facility. Indeed with this shuffling it may reduce the need for such a facility. But a garage would be more efficient operationally with just one shuttle needed.
 
TEMPO
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:50 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
capitalflyer wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
They only operate the A380 in the summer. In the winter, it cuts back to a daily 777.


OK, so year over year it would be increased capacity with more frequency. Thanks!

Yes. It's nice to see that they can support more than once daily year round now. I'm curious to see if IAD will continue to see the A380 after AF starts removing some from the fleet. I suspect not.


I just got notified that my January 2020 flight on BA 217 has been changed from a B747 to an A380. Unexpected.
 
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BWIAirport
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 26, 2019 6:19 pm

TEMPO wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
capitalflyer wrote:

OK, so year over year it would be increased capacity with more frequency. Thanks!

Yes. It's nice to see that they can support more than once daily year round now. I'm curious to see if IAD will continue to see the A380 after AF starts removing some from the fleet. I suspect not.


I just got notified that my January 2020 flight on BA 217 has been changed from a B747 to an A380. Unexpected.

I think Airlineroute reported a while back that they were switching BA216/217 to an A380 beginning in October. I'm booked on those flights in late November so I'm expecting that email soon. All fine and good, except I was hoping to fly the 747.
Next flight: October 17 DL2641 BWI-ATL B739
October 17 DL2607 ATL-TPA B752

SWA, UAL, DAL, AWE, ASA, TRS, DLH, CLH, AFR, BAW, EIN, AAL | E190 DC94 CRJ2 B712 B733 B737 B738 B739 B744 B752 B753 B762 B77W A319 A320 A321 A333 A343 A388 MD88
 
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N776AU
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 26, 2019 7:17 pm

capitalflyer wrote:
blockski wrote:
msp747 wrote:
I am probably wrong, but isn't the plan to build a consolidated rental car facility at IAD? Seems strange to have them reorganize the current setup if the plan is to replace them in the not so distant future.


That may still be the long term plan, but it's clearly not going to happen anytime soon. This new contract is for 7 years, and it sure seems quite clear that IAD won't be building a ConRAC in the next 7 years.

Also, the linked documents don't contain the contract language, but I wouldn't be surprised if the airport retains some kind of out clause if they want to build a ConRAC earlier than the next 7 years.

The other thing is that I'm not sure what MWAA's plans are for landside circulation at IAD. There was a concept for a landside people mover; there are shuttle buses; the Metro station will be new and there are lots of potential redevelopment areas that MWAA should pursue...


Reorganizing makes sense, putting together affiliates with their parent companies. This will make for more efficient shuttle usage. Maybe even eliminate some shuttle bus traffic if everyone is going to one place instead of needing a thrifty shuttle and a hertz shuttle. This will just simplify operations for the operators. I doubt any of them will be making any huge changes, but being able to put inventory in same lot, etc. will provide efficiencies.

I agree it will probably be 7 years before plans are in the works for a centralized rental facility. Indeed with this shuffling it may reduce the need for such a facility. But a garage would be more efficient operationally with just one shuttle needed.

As a semi-frequent traveler to IAD, I agree that a consolidated rental car facility would be very nice. Underrated upgrade for such a facility would be better cell service. The current rental car lots seems like a big old dead spot for every carrier. A bit odd, since I've found cell service in and around the airport to be very good.
Careful, doors are closing, and will not reopen. Please wait for the next train.
 
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BWIAirport
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 04, 2019 4:27 pm

BWI is taking 15R arrivals for the first time in as long as I can remember
Next flight: October 17 DL2641 BWI-ATL B739
October 17 DL2607 ATL-TPA B752

SWA, UAL, DAL, AWE, ASA, TRS, DLH, CLH, AFR, BAW, EIN, AAL | E190 DC94 CRJ2 B712 B733 B737 B738 B739 B744 B752 B753 B762 B77W A319 A320 A321 A333 A343 A388 MD88
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:16 pm

BWIAirport wrote:
BWI is taking 15R arrivals for the first time in as long as I can remember

Windshear. BWI has been in and out of holding for over an hour with a few diversions so far to RIC and ORF.
 
winstonavgeek
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:53 pm

Here's an interesting tweet I found. There is supposedly a new service announcement in the next couple of weeks. I wonder what it could be. My prediction is that it is probably UA announcing the official start date for their IAD-HND service.
Link : https://twitter.com/ghimlay/status/1140667123133505536
 
jplatts
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jul 06, 2019 6:36 pm

winstonavgeek wrote:
Here's an interesting tweet I found. There is supposedly a new service announcement in the next couple of weeks. I wonder what it could be. My prediction is that it is probably UA announcing the official start date for their IAD-HND service.
Link : https://twitter.com/ghimlay/status/1140667123133505536


WN adding nonstop service out of IAD to additional beyond-DCA perimeter destinations such as AUS, LAX, OAK, PHX, SMF, and SJC is another possibility.
 
capitalflyer
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:52 pm

jplatts wrote:
winstonavgeek wrote:
Here's an interesting tweet I found. There is supposedly a new service announcement in the next couple of weeks. I wonder what it could be. My prediction is that it is probably UA announcing the official start date for their IAD-HND service.
Link : https://twitter.com/ghimlay/status/1140667123133505536


WN adding nonstop service out of IAD to additional beyond-DCA perimeter destinations such as AUS, LAX, OAK, PHX, SMF, and SJC is another possibility.

Yes, probably IAD-HND confirmation from UA.
 
DCA350
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:52 pm

Yes, probably IAD-HND confirmation from UA.[/quote]

Does anyone know if this would be an additional flight or would it replacement NRT?.. More options are always great but I'm not sure if the DMV can support three daily flights to TYO.
 
crjflyboy
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:59 pm

The Washington Metro Silver line extension to IAD is progressing quite nicely … it's about 90% done and is on schedule to open in 2020. Just a 30 minute ride to downtown DC when it's up and running.

http://dullesmetro.com/silver-line-stations/

Will we see a huge boom in traffic at IAD soon ?
 
bloxomo
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:11 pm

crjflyboy wrote:
The Washington Metro Silver line extension to IAD is progressing quite nicely … it's about 90% done and is on schedule to open in 2020. Just a 30 minute ride to downtown DC when it's up and running.

http://dullesmetro.com/silver-line-stations/

Will we see a huge boom in traffic at IAD soon ?


It is 35 minutes just from Wiehle to Foggy Bottom. Starting all the way out at Dulles will probably take about 10 minutes more (not counting the walk from the terminal to the station). Going all the way to Metro Center adds another 6. So probably not a boom.
 
blockski
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:11 pm

DCA350 wrote:
Yes, probably IAD-HND confirmation from UA.


Does anyone know if this would be an additional flight or would it replacement NRT?.. More options are always great but I'm not sure if the DMV can support three daily flights to TYO.[/quote]

United's application said they would replace their NRT flight with the HND one. ANA will still fly to NRT, however.
 
crjflyboy
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:28 pm

bloxomo wrote:
crjflyboy wrote:
The Washington Metro Silver line extension to IAD is progressing quite nicely … it's about 90% done and is on schedule to open in 2020. Just a 30 minute ride to downtown DC when it's up and running.

http://dullesmetro.com/silver-line-stations/

Will we see a huge boom in traffic at IAD soon ?


It is 35 minutes just from Wiehle to Foggy Bottom. Starting all the way out at Dulles will probably take about 10 minutes more (not counting the walk from the terminal to the station). Going all the way to Metro Center adds another 6. So probably not a boom.



You're correct in that it will take longer … this says it will take an hour … for some reason I assumed it would be much shorter …

https://thepointsguy.com/news/metro-tra ... extension/

With an hour trip to IAD from DC the potential growth begins to evaporate.
 
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:25 pm

jplatts wrote:
WN adding nonstop service out of IAD to additional beyond-DCA perimeter destinations such as AUS, LAX, OAK, PHX, SMF, and SJC is another possibility.

WN is already cancelling routes and cutting frequencies due to fleet shortages from the MAX grounding -- they're in no position to be adding new routes, especially routes with long stage lengths like transcons. Every flight you listed is 4-5 hours. There really aren't any domestic carriers (apart from ULCCs) that are in a position to be adding numerous transcon routes without corresponding cuts.

capitalflyer wrote:
Yes, probably IAD-HND confirmation from UA.

I think this would be the best bet. We already know they were awarded the route, so all that remains is the formality of actually announcing. The filing listed a 777-200ER, so it's just a shift from the NRT route.

crjflyboy wrote:
The Washington Metro Silver line extension to IAD is progressing quite nicely … it's about 90% done and is on schedule to open in 2020. Just a 30 minute ride to downtown DC when it's up and running.

http://dullesmetro.com/silver-line-stations/

Will we see a huge boom in traffic at IAD soon ?

They've made a ton of progress on the stations. They look like they're just about ready to open. I suppose the open question is whether or not the rail yard will be ready on time, and whether or not they can open if the repairs to the yard aren't complete (I think the general consensus is "no"). Hopefully the shoddy construction won't delay the opening any further. Between the rail yard issues and the faulty concrete station panels, they need to seriously vet their contractors' QC capabilities on future projects.

bloxomo wrote:
It is 35 minutes just from Wiehle to Foggy Bottom. Starting all the way out at Dulles will probably take about 10 minutes more (not counting the walk from the terminal to the station). Going all the way to Metro Center adds another 6. So probably not a boom.

Still beats the existing options. I think it would be a bigger deal if there were some way to run express trains, at least until the train goes underground. That alone would shave 10+ minutes off. I realize it would have been more expensive, but it would have made the trek a little less unappealing for some.
 
LoudounHound
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:05 pm

capitalflyer wrote:
Yes, probably IAD-HND confirmation from UA.

I think this would be the best bet. We already know they were awarded the route, so all that remains is the formality of actually announcing. The filing listed a 777-200ER, so it's just a shift from the NRT route.

Agreed this is most likely, but I'll throw out a couple longshots: LOT to Warsaw or EVA to Taipei. They have both expressed interest, and both have code shares with UA.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:35 pm

LoudounHound wrote:
capitalflyer wrote:
Yes, probably IAD-HND confirmation from UA.

I think this would be the best bet. We already know they were awarded the route, so all that remains is the formality of actually announcing. The filing listed a 777-200ER, so it's just a shift from the NRT route.

Agreed this is most likely, but I'll throw out a couple longshots: LOT to Warsaw or EVA to Taipei. They have both expressed interest, and both have code shares with UA.

EVA would be nice, but I would be somewhat skeptical of any new ULH Asia flights for a little while. The CX flight hasn't had enough time to prove itself viably long term. Once it does, I suspect we'll see more entrants.

LOT would make sense at some point. There used to be some pretty glaring omissions when it comes to Star carriers at IAD, but that's less so the case now. Swiss is a big one, but LOT is certainly another. Obviously UA serve ZRH and GVA through codeshare and JV, but I would love for Swiss to return. A few months ago, I would have said Asiana might be able to give IAD a shot, but given their financial situation, I think we can pretty much count that one out.

Just for reference, here are the Star carriers at IAD:
Air Canada
Air China
Air India
ANA
Austrian
Avianca
Brussels Airlines
Copa
EgyptAir
Ethiopian
Lufthansa
SAS
SAA
TAP
Turkish
UA (obviously)

Star carriers not serving IAD that realistically could:
Air New Zealand
Asiana
EVA Air
LOT Polish
Singapore
Swiss

Considering EgyptAir and TAP are new additions, it definitely makes the second list look quite a bit shorter.
 
blockski
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:21 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
crjflyboy wrote:
The Washington Metro Silver line extension to IAD is progressing quite nicely … it's about 90% done and is on schedule to open in 2020. Just a 30 minute ride to downtown DC when it's up and running.

http://dullesmetro.com/silver-line-stations/

Will we see a huge boom in traffic at IAD soon ?

They've made a ton of progress on the stations. They look like they're just about ready to open. I suppose the open question is whether or not the rail yard will be ready on time, and whether or not they can open if the repairs to the yard aren't complete (I think the general consensus is "no"). Hopefully the shoddy construction won't delay the opening any further. Between the rail yard issues and the faulty concrete station panels, they need to seriously vet their contractors' QC capabilities on future projects.

bloxomo wrote:
It is 35 minutes just from Wiehle to Foggy Bottom. Starting all the way out at Dulles will probably take about 10 minutes more (not counting the walk from the terminal to the station). Going all the way to Metro Center adds another 6. So probably not a boom.

Still beats the existing options. I think it would be a bigger deal if there were some way to run express trains, at least until the train goes underground. That alone would shave 10+ minutes off. I realize it would have been more expensive, but it would have made the trek a little less unappealing for some.


Yeah, based on the documents, the rail yard construction contract is well behind the rest of the line/stations. Metro has been quite clear that they will not open the line without the railyard, and rightfully so.

The other thing to remember is that there's going to be a lot of testing that has to happen before things are ready for service; the major elements will look finished well before they're actually ready to go.

As far as the effect on IAD goes, I doubt it will be a huge boon, but it will certainly be a benefit. It's going to be far superior to the existing options, particularly for people in Arlington and Tysons. The other thing to remember is the importance of frequent service, opposed to the less frequent service on, say, MARC to BWI.
 
CapitalAvGeek
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:19 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
LOT would make sense at some point. There used to be some pretty glaring omissions when it comes to Star carriers at IAD, but that's less so the case now. Swiss is a big one, but LOT is certainly another. Obviously UA serve ZRH and GVA through codeshare and JV, but I would love for Swiss to return. A few months ago, I would have said Asiana might be able to give IAD a shot, but given their financial situation, I think we can pretty much count that one out.

Swiss is going to add a transatlantic destination this coming year, according to people in the Swiss Aviation Thread.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1411893&p=21497769#p21482797

The most likely candidates are YYZ and IAD.
 
EssentialBusDC
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:23 pm

Regarding Metro to Dulles

As a frequent user, coming from upper NW DC, I am
not planning the trip being any quicker then it is currently. I give myself 2 hours, with the quickest journey haven taken about 1+25. That was with literally no longer then a minute wait at metro center, or for making the connection to the Bus to IAD. Everything timed perfectly. Normally there is a wait of 8-10 minutes somewhere.

Subject for another thread but Metro failed miserably in their long term planning with no ability to run express trains, thus having faster service from Dulles or other outer stations to downtown, nor do a loop (using the median of the beltway) to connect the spokes. If you need to go from Bethesda or Silver Spring to Tyson’s Metro is not really a viable option. So folks drive instead, adding to the congestion on the beltway.
 
blockski
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:53 pm

EssentialBusDC wrote:
Regarding Metro to Dulles

As a frequent user, coming from upper NW DC, I am
not planning the trip being any quicker then it is currently. I give myself 2 hours, with the quickest journey haven taken about 1+25. That was with literally no longer then a minute wait at metro center, or for making the connection to the Bus to IAD. Everything timed perfectly. Normally there is a wait of 8-10 minutes somewhere.

Subject for another thread but Metro failed miserably in their long term planning with no ability to run express trains, thus having faster service from Dulles or other outer stations to downtown, nor do a loop (using the median of the beltway) to connect the spokes. If you need to go from Bethesda or Silver Spring to Tyson’s Metro is not really a viable option. So folks drive instead, adding to the congestion on the beltway.


I don't think Metro failed here at all. Metro is fine - the trains are plenty fast; the reason the trip seems so slow is simply because Dulles is very far away.

The challenges of getting from suburb to suburb are a broader failure of American car-centric freeway planning, not of transit. It makes zero sense to build a Metro line along the beltway; it's challenging enough to do circumferential transit like the Purple Line - and the Purple Line has favorable land uses along the entire route. The gap between Bethesda and Tysons not only has a river to cross, but a sea of low-density, very wealthy areas that will fight any dense development tooth and nail. It's car-centric, and that means congestion; any transit project there would be really expensive to build and wouldn't be the highest priority for investment.
 
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msp747
Posts: 416
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:26 pm

blockski wrote:
As far as the effect on IAD goes, I doubt it will be a huge boon, but it will certainly be a benefit. It's going to be far superior to the existing options, particularly for people in Arlington and Tysons. The other thing to remember is the importance of frequent service, opposed to the less frequent service on, say, MARC to BWI.

This! I think too many people have been hung up on the time it will take to get from DC to IAD, as opposed to how it will make life easier for people in Tysons and the Dulles corridor.
 
DCA-ROCguy
Posts: 4185
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:04 pm

blockski wrote:
As far as the effect on IAD goes, I doubt it will be a huge boon, but it will certainly be a benefit. It's going to be far superior to the existing options, particularly for people in Arlington and Tysons. The other thing to remember is the importance of frequent service, opposed to the less frequent service on, say, MARC to BWI.


This, it seems to me, is where the Silver Line will have its greatest benefit--a good option for people in the Arlington to Tysons corridor. I would definitely consider it if I lived there. And frequent service is a big plus. MARC's schedules at BWI are ok, but I wind up taking Amtrak about half the time because it comes first and isn't that much more expensive (at least the trains I've taken).

In our past discussions of express trains, it seemed to me that the problems were 1) old railroad rights of way were gone and turned into trails, and 2) the space left in the 267 median would be very tight to add an express line along with the two rails of regular line. There isn't room for them. If there were going to be room for express trains, that decision had to be made back in the Mad Men era when laying out the Toll Road.

In general, Metro screwed up in the 1970's by not building tunnels to accommodate three tracks, so that they could close track for construction like New York City can do. Elected officials wouldn't allow Metro to close track for repair until they were forced to. That's why we got the emergency measures of SafeTrack and the last couple of years. Nothing to be done now but what is being done--shut down sections of track and stations and rebuild as needed.

Jim
Last edited by DCA-ROCguy on Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
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ElroyJetson
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:22 pm

EssentialBusDC wrote:
Regarding Metro to Dulles

As a frequent user, coming from upper NW DC, I am
not planning the trip being any quicker then it is currently. I give myself 2 hours, with the quickest journey haven taken about 1+25. That was with literally no longer then a minute wait at metro center, or for making the connection to the Bus to IAD. Everything timed perfectly. Normally there is a wait of 8-10 minutes somewhere.

Subject for another thread but Metro failed miserably in their long term planning with no ability to run express trains, thus having faster service from Dulles or other outer stations to downtown, nor do a loop (using the median of the beltway) to connect the spokes. If you need to go from Bethesda or Silver Spring to Tyson’s Metro is not really a viable option. So folks drive instead, adding to the congestion on the beltway.




I find all the negative statements about the Washington Metro interesting because frankly, I think its great. I lived in Richmond for many years and would go up to DC for business or fun. If I was going to a Nats game I would park in the Springfield Mall and take the Metro straight to the ballpark. On weekends the fare was like $5. No hassle with the downtown DC traffic, and no $40 bucks to park at the stadium. If you are in the center of the city you can go pretty much anywhere in the Metro area easily and cheaply.

Yes, it is public transportation so it is often crowded, particularly stops near the National Mall. But compared to NYC, London, or other subway systems the Metro is relatively clean and nice imho. If I lived in DC I would not think twice about taking the Silver Line to Dulles. So it might take you an hour if you live in Greenbelt. So what....is the drive and parking going to be better or cheaper?

I do think the addition of the Silver Line will boost traffic to IAD. again...just my opinion.
707 717 727 72S 737 733 737-700 747 757 753 767-300 764 A319 A320 DC-9-10 DC-9-30 DC-9-50, MD-82 MD-88 MD-90 DC-10-10 DC-10-40 F-100
 
dcaproducer
Posts: 196
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:30 pm

Metro to IAD is going to be a positive for people in NOVA, especially N. Arlington, Tysons, McLean, and people who live downtown in the District. If you live in Rockville, taking Metro to Dulles doesn't make all that much sense. From Springfield, it doesn't make much sense.

Before the Silver line construction started there was debate about a third track for express trains and it was deemed way too expensive. This is also why Metro doesn't run under Tysons. Many people wanted it entirely underground, but the cost was extreme.

It's not necessarily going to be much faster, but it's another mode of transportation.
 
EssentialBusDC
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:06 am

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:56 pm

blockski wrote:
EssentialBusDC wrote:
Regarding Metro to Dulles

As a frequent user, coming from upper NW DC, I am
not planning the trip being any quicker then it is currently. I give myself 2 hours, with the quickest journey haven taken about 1+25. That was with literally no longer then a minute wait at metro center, or for making the connection to the Bus to IAD. Everything timed perfectly. Normally there is a wait of 8-10 minutes somewhere.

Subject for another thread but Metro failed miserably in their long term planning with no ability to run express trains, thus having faster service from Dulles or other outer stations to downtown, nor do a loop (using the median of the beltway) to connect the spokes. If you need to go from Bethesda or Silver Spring to Tyson’s Metro is not really a viable option. So folks drive instead, adding to the congestion on the beltway.


I don't think Metro failed here at all. Metro is fine - the trains are plenty fast; the reason the trip seems so slow is simply because Dulles is very far away.

The challenges of getting from suburb to suburb are a broader failure of American car-centric freeway planning, not of transit. It makes zero sense to build a Metro line along the beltway; it's challenging enough to do circumferential transit like the Purple Line - and the Purple Line has favorable land uses along the entire route. The gap between Bethesda and Tysons not only has a river to cross, but a sea of low-density, very wealthy areas that will fight any dense development tooth and nail. It's car-centric, and that means congestion; any transit project there would be really expensive to build and wouldn't be the highest priority for investment.


Yes the trains are fast, except for all the stops. Hence why an express train with limited stops, would be beneficial, not just for Dulles but also daily commuters to get to downtown.

It would have made perfect sense to build a Metro loop, utilizing the Beltway footprint. That land had already been appropriated for transportation use, unlike the Purple line that required years of lawsuits etc. The car congestion on the Beltway is in part driven by the lack of a viable suburb to suburb public transit option. But again the lack of a future plan back in the day (third rails for Express services, connecting the spokes) hinders today’s Metro system. Beyond the historical funding and mismanagement issues of the current system. If you are close to a spoke and need to get to downtown DC it works, but going from outer spoke to outer spoke really doesn’t except for a limited segment of the population.
 
DCAfan
Posts: 132
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:22 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:56 pm

Dulles has potential to significantly grow enplanements with the silver line provided there is an LCC committed to make the investment. Moxy? We'll see
 
jplatts
Posts: 2772
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:02 pm

DCAfan wrote:
Dulles has potential to significantly grow enplanements with the silver line provided there is an LCC committed to make the investment. Moxy? We'll see


I have previously mentioned that WN could add more nonstop service out of IAD to additional beyond-DCA perimeter markets such as LAX, OAK, PHX, and SJC once WN has more planes in its fleet. IAD is far enough from BWI to support nonstop service to some additional beyond-DCA perimeter destinations out of IAD from WN, and PHX is also located in a market where UA doesn't have a hub or focus city.
 
DCAfan
Posts: 132
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:22 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:12 pm

WN tried LAS and SAN from IAD a couple of years ago or so and couldn't make them work. Today they only operate 5 departures a day at IAD: DEN - 3, ATL - 2. IAD could use an LCC that is fully committed to developing the airport in my opinion.
 
blockski
Posts: 549
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:30 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:55 pm

EssentialBusDC wrote:
blockski wrote:
EssentialBusDC wrote:
Regarding Metro to Dulles

As a frequent user, coming from upper NW DC, I am
not planning the trip being any quicker then it is currently. I give myself 2 hours, with the quickest journey haven taken about 1+25. That was with literally no longer then a minute wait at metro center, or for making the connection to the Bus to IAD. Everything timed perfectly. Normally there is a wait of 8-10 minutes somewhere.

Subject for another thread but Metro failed miserably in their long term planning with no ability to run express trains, thus having faster service from Dulles or other outer stations to downtown, nor do a loop (using the median of the beltway) to connect the spokes. If you need to go from Bethesda or Silver Spring to Tyson’s Metro is not really a viable option. So folks drive instead, adding to the congestion on the beltway.


I don't think Metro failed here at all. Metro is fine - the trains are plenty fast; the reason the trip seems so slow is simply because Dulles is very far away.

The challenges of getting from suburb to suburb are a broader failure of American car-centric freeway planning, not of transit. It makes zero sense to build a Metro line along the beltway; it's challenging enough to do circumferential transit like the Purple Line - and the Purple Line has favorable land uses along the entire route. The gap between Bethesda and Tysons not only has a river to cross, but a sea of low-density, very wealthy areas that will fight any dense development tooth and nail. It's car-centric, and that means congestion; any transit project there would be really expensive to build and wouldn't be the highest priority for investment.


Yes the trains are fast, except for all the stops. Hence why an express train with limited stops, would be beneficial, not just for Dulles but also daily commuters to get to downtown.


Right, but the stops are the things that make the train useful - that's where people get on and off the train. The demand to and from the airport is much more diffuse than just going downtown, meaning that an express train would be skipping past the stations where people would like to get on the train to go to the airport.

If you wanted an express train to the airport, then Metro is the wrong mode. The better option would've been some kind of regional rail like MARC. But of course there's no rail line like that anywhere near IAD, which makes it infeasible. Instead, you get Metro and the benefits of frequency. Yes, the trip is a little longer, but with trains every 6 minutes at peak hours, the much shorter wait times are a huge benefit.

EssentialBusDC wrote:
It would have made perfect sense to build a Metro loop, utilizing the Beltway footprint. That land had already been appropriated for transportation use, unlike the Purple line that required years of lawsuits etc. The car congestion on the Beltway is in part driven by the lack of a viable suburb to suburb public transit option. But again the lack of a future plan back in the day (third rails for Express services, connecting the spokes) hinders today’s Metro system. Beyond the historical funding and mismanagement issues of the current system. If you are close to a spoke and need to get to downtown DC it works, but going from outer spoke to outer spoke really doesn’t except for a limited segment of the population.


My point is that going from outer suburb to outer suburb is never going to be transit's strong suit. Never. Particularly given the American tradition of building those places around the car. They're so car-centric as to make decent transit service infeasible. The viability of the Purple Line is based on those inner suburban locations urbanizing even more than they already are.

Most American suburbs were designed around the car, to preclude any other kind of transit. And, this is what you get! Design for cars, you get a lot of traffic. The parts of the region that pre-date car-centric planning (e.g. Downtown) do much better.

Metro also studied a Beltway line. It did not perform well at all: https://planitmetro.com/wp-content/uplo ... df#page=33

Also: just a note: third tracks for express services are extremely inefficient. There's a reason most transit systems in the world are two-track systems. New York is the exception, and they have tons of three-track lines where the third track is completely unused. Three track lines only allow for express services in one direction. Even in NYC, the four-track sections are far more about increased capacity rather than increased speed. The larger station spacing on newer systems like WMATA means that the service is already faster than the NYC subway even without express tracks.
 
winstonavgeek
Posts: 36
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:00 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:30 pm

jplatts wrote:
DCAfan wrote:
Dulles has potential to significantly grow enplanements with the silver line provided there is an LCC committed to make the investment. Moxy? We'll see


I have previously mentioned that WN could add more nonstop service out of IAD to additional beyond-DCA perimeter markets such as LAX, OAK, PHX, and SJC once WN has more planes in its fleet. IAD is far enough from BWI to support nonstop service to some additional beyond-DCA perimeter destinations out of IAD from WN, and PHX is also located in a market where UA doesn't have a hub or focus city.


It is always funny seeing you try to say that WN is going to expand at IAD. I do agree that there should be an LCC committed to IAD, but there have been too many failed experiments. Remember B6's minihub at IAD and F9's expansion? Those didn't go well. WN couldn't even make SAN and LAS work. The only hope I see for IAD in terms of LCC's is Sun Country, Moxy, or two F9 routes to SJC and ORD.
 
DCA350
Posts: 68
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 7:27 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:39 pm

DCAfan wrote:
WN tried LAS and SAN from IAD a couple of years ago or so and couldn't make them work. Today they only operate 5 departures a day at IAD: DEN - 3, ATL - 2. IAD could use an LCC that is fully committed to developing the airport in my opinion.



Yes but they can't make it work because of the cost.. JB WN and Frontier haven't been able to crack the IAD nut.. DCA takes the premium domestic traffic and BWI draws the LCCs because it is so much cheaper to operate from.
 
capitalflyer
Posts: 555
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:43 am

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:49 pm

Cmac787 wrote:
UA puts 2 CRJ's on Z9 and Z10 on the 5pm bank. Sun Country has moved to gate B70 old Jetblue gate


I was looking at some old photos taken right after the rebuild of the Z gates back in 2006, and one of the captions says that the concourse can be expanded in the future to include Z1-5. So it seems any future build out of the Z gates will continue east off the current corridor of gates.

I would guess we might see this expansion even before any possible new C-D concourse as a way to create more flexibility for the larger project. But when that might be who knows, 2025?
 
EssentialBusDC
Posts: 81
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:09 pm

DCAfan wrote:
WN tried LAS and SAN from IAD a couple of years ago or so and couldn't make them work. Today they only operate 5 departures a day at IAD: DEN - 3, ATL - 2. IAD could use an LCC that is fully committed to developing the airport in my opinion.


And what gates would this mythical LCC hub use? There are not enough gates open throughout the day for someone else to set up a hub. Could they get 3-4 gates with some shuffling? Maybe.

And if you think building another terminal is the answer, that would ruin any chance of lowering the fees to make is cost effective for a LCC model. No LCC is going to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on new gates either just to set up a hub. Heck, even United won’t spend hundreds of millions+ on a new terminal at Dulles.

MWAA got burned by Independence Air bubble, I doubt they want to repeat that experience.
 
DCAfan
Posts: 132
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:22 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:17 pm

EssentialBusDC wrote:
DCAfan wrote:
WN tried LAS and SAN from IAD a couple of years ago or so and couldn't make them work. Today they only operate 5 departures a day at IAD: DEN - 3, ATL - 2. IAD could use an LCC that is fully committed to developing the airport in my opinion.


And what gates would this mythical LCC hub use? There are not enough gates open throughout the day for someone else to set up a hub. Could they get 3-4 gates with some shuffling? Maybe.

And if you think building another terminal is the answer, that would ruin any chance of lowering the fees to make is cost effective for a LCC model. No LCC is going to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on new gates either just to set up a hub. Heck, even United won’t spend hundreds of millions+ on a new terminal at Dulles.

MWAA got burned by Independence Air bubble, I doubt they want to repeat that experience.


Z has potential as it can be expanded to 13 gates from the current 4.
 
OpsCheckNML
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:05 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:04 pm

Does anybody know what construction is being done at the end of D - Pier in BWI near D-29 and D-26?
 
bryanSE785
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:29 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:47 am

OpsCheckNML wrote:
Does anybody know what construction is being done at the end of D - Pier in BWI near D-29 and D-26?


They're repaving the taxiway
 
N292UX
Posts: 429
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:08 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:41 pm

From what I can tell, IAD-MIA on UA may be going year round, or at least very. Did a dummy booking, and the route starts up in early October, and bookings are still available in early June, which is as far as the calendar will go.
 
blockski
Posts: 549
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:30 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:32 pm

the new DCA concourse is starting to get a bit more recognizable:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/erussell1984/48213019651/

The MWAA Board Meeting documents are up, including updates on the DCA construction (with more pictures):
https://www.mwaa.com/sites/default/file ... ourney.pdf

It also includes the progress on the Silver Line:
https://www.mwaa.com/sites/default/file ... 1_2019.pdf

As well as a recap of the promotional activities for the new IAD flights to CAI, FCO, LIS, and TLV
https://www.mwaa.com/sites/default/file ... report.pdf

And, in case your interested, United will be getting some electric ground equipment at IAD, and MWAA will be installing some charging infrastructure to support it:
https://www.mwaa.com/sites/default/file ... irport.pdf
 
san747
Posts: 4360
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 10:03 am

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:02 pm

https://www.flightradar24.com/DJT520/214ea632

Anyone know why a La Compagnie 757 is landing at IAD in a moment from Bordeaux, France? I'm assuming not new scheduled service, some kind of charter?
Scotty doesn't know...
 
User avatar
asuflyer05
Posts: 2113
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 8:53 am

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:29 pm

san747 wrote:
https://www.flightradar24.com/DJT520/214ea632

Anyone know why a La Compagnie 757 is landing at IAD in a moment from Bordeaux, France? I'm assuming not new scheduled service, some kind of charter?


Interesting. I was at IAD last night and thought I might my eyes had deceived me. According to FR24 it was here last night as well. Did MPL-LYS-IAD then IAD-MRS-BOD-IAD.
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