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winstonavgeek
Posts: 36
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:00 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:35 pm

san747 wrote:
https://www.flightradar24.com/DJT520/214ea632

Anyone know why a La Compagnie 757 is landing at IAD in a moment from Bordeaux, France? I'm assuming not new scheduled service, some kind of charter?


It is a charter for a couple of French Soccer teams to play at Audi Field this weekend and next week.
 
blockski
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:13 pm

Some updates coming out of the MWAA board meeting. MWAA says despite delays, they're on track to hand over the Silver Line in time for a July 2020 start of service to Dulles - though that will obviously depend on WMATA as well:

https://wtop.com/tracking-metro-24-7/20 ... cial-says/
 
capitalflyer
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:13 pm

FAA reports that IAD passed DCA in enplanements in 2018.

https://www.insidenova.com/news/transpo ... 711de.html

I don't think DCA capacity is restrained by construction, so this seems to be actual good news for IAD. I would guess that if your capacity is maxed out then even something as mundane as cancellations due to weather could result in a decrease in enplanements. I assume DCA is likely to get an enplanement boost once the new concourse is completed. So this may be a short lived swap in DC's busiest airport title.
 
blockski
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:43 pm

capitalflyer wrote:
FAA reports that IAD passed DCA in enplanements in 2018.

https://www.insidenova.com/news/transpo ... 711de.html

I don't think DCA capacity is restrained by construction, so this seems to be actual good news for IAD. I would guess that if your capacity is maxed out then even something as mundane as cancellations due to weather could result in a decrease in enplanements. I assume DCA is likely to get an enplanement boost once the new concourse is completed. So this may be a short lived swap in DC's busiest airport title.


United has made a clear priority to grow Dulles, which is helpfully driving down overall costs at the airport, inducing additional carriers to come... Lots of efficiencies of scale there.

Also note that DCA's enplanements are basically flat, so it's not that they're losing traffic exactly. I'll bet you could expect some additional growth via modest up-gauging once the new concourse opens, but that's not going to be huge (50 seaters to 76 seaters at most).
 
capitalflyer
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:57 pm

blockski wrote:
I'll bet you could expect some additional growth via modest up-gauging once the new concourse opens, but that's not going to be huge (50 seaters to 76 seaters at most).


On that last point, how are they building out the gates on the new North concourse? Will they be half height and so only accommodate RJs? Or will they be full height and usable for 737 and up (vertically that is)? I imagine that limited space on the tarmac and a desire to get as many commuter gates as possible in means that there is not enough space between gates to routinely use them for larger jets, at least when adjacent gates are occupied.
 
blockski
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:13 pm

capitalflyer wrote:
blockski wrote:
I'll bet you could expect some additional growth via modest up-gauging once the new concourse opens, but that's not going to be huge (50 seaters to 76 seaters at most).


On that last point, how are they building out the gates on the new North concourse? Will they be half height and so only accommodate RJs? Or will they be full height and usable for 737 and up (vertically that is)? I imagine that limited space on the tarmac and a desire to get as many commuter gates as possible in means that there is not enough space between gates to routinely use them for larger jets, at least when adjacent gates are occupied.


I'm pretty sure the design basis is for E175-sized aircraft. They could reconfigure gates in the future to accommodate larger aircraft at slightly fewer gates, I'm sure, but the design is to replace the same number of hardstand locations for the current Gate 35X with jetbridge gates.

They're not half-height, and will have full jetbridge access.

Here's what the planning document says: https://www.mwaa.com/sites/default/file ... 110216.pdf

As noted in Section 2.3.2, the purpose of the New Concourse is to improve the passenger experience by providing contact gates for 14 regional aircraft presently operating from hardstands (i.e., off-gate aircraft parking areas where passengers embark and disembark) and an undersized passenger holdroom. The Embraer 175 (EMB175) was chosen as the design aircraft because it is representative of the aircraft that can be gated at the existing hardstands, is commonly used in the existing fleet, is projected to be utilized in the future fleet mix, and meets all existing DCA operational statutes, regulations and requirements.


The 'operational statutes' I believe is a reference to DCA's slot regime, which specifies a number of slots that may only be used for commuter aircraft - under the FAA's definition, those with 89 seats or less. I also think that AA holds a large share of these slots (as evidenced by their Gate 35X operation). The plan allows them to increase all of those RJs to E175 aircraft once the concourse opens.

In the future, however, MWAA did plan the building to allow for bigger aircraft in the future. From later in the EA:

Consistent with industry practice, the building is being sized to accommodate future flexibility in aircraft fleet mix. Although the current forecast only supports the 14-regional aircraft gates, the airport has identified how the concourse could be used to accommodate a smaller number of slightly larger aircraft
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:30 pm

blockski wrote:
Some updates coming out of the MWAA board meeting. MWAA says despite delays, they're on track to hand over the Silver Line in time for a July 2020 start of service to Dulles - though that will obviously depend on WMATA as well:

https://wtop.com/tracking-metro-24-7/20 ... cial-says/


If the handover is in July, best case it's open by September based on the Phase 1 schedule.

I'm thinking opening will be Jan. 2021, a full year delay from the original plan. No science behind the prediction just basing it on the fact the second half of the line has been plagued with more problems.

Patch and the Post (paywall) have articles reporting the opening is planned for mid-to-late 2020, maybe:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/tr ... 7072ff71cf

https://patch.com/virginia/reston/resto ... 020-report

It's not opening any time soon.

I'm also curious how this line will operate in the winter. Western Fairfax and Loudoun Counties get significantly more snow and ice in the winter compared to locations inside the Beltway (and even locations like Shady Grove). How will they make the call operate it to Dulles and beyond? There's a third rail switch currently at Wiehle Ave. Will this be the cutoff?
 
smokeybandit
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:41 pm

I know this is an aviation forum, but those are some pretty massively embarrassing problems that still need fixed. Switches don't line up? Your track bed isn't even right?

I bet this goes well into 2021.
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:46 pm

smokeybandit wrote:
I know this is an aviation forum, but those are some pretty massively embarrassing problems that still need fixed. Switches don't line up? Your track bed isn't even right?

I bet this goes well into 2021.


The Silver Line will have an impact on IAD. It's av related.
 
x1234
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:46 pm

What's the new airline coming to IAD!?
 
blockski
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:02 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
blockski wrote:
Some updates coming out of the MWAA board meeting. MWAA says despite delays, they're on track to hand over the Silver Line in time for a July 2020 start of service to Dulles - though that will obviously depend on WMATA as well:

https://wtop.com/tracking-metro-24-7/20 ... cial-says/


If the handover is in July, best case it's open by September based on the Phase 1 schedule.

I'm thinking opening will be Jan. 2021, a full year delay from the original plan. No science behind the prediction just basing it on the fact the second half of the line has been plagued with more problems.

Patch and the Post (paywall) have articles reporting the opening is planned for mid-to-late 2020, maybe:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/tr ... 7072ff71cf

https://patch.com/virginia/reston/resto ... 020-report

It's not opening any time soon.


That's entirely consistent with the WTOP reporting. By the way, they're not saying handover by July, they're saying start of operations - meaning handover to WMATA would be before then. Nobody's suggesting that it would open sooner than that, but there's also no good reason it would open much later than that, either.

I'm also curious how this line will operate in the winter. Western Fairfax and Loudoun Counties get significantly more snow and ice in the winter compared to locations inside the Beltway (and even locations like Shady Grove). How will they make the call operate it to Dulles and beyond? There's a third rail switch currently at Wiehle Ave. Will this be the cutoff?


There's no reason to think it would operate any different than other above-ground sections of the system. The weather conditions at Wiehle Ave aren't markedly different from Dulles.

Metro's snow and ice procedures are fairly straightforward: they'll run trains (including non-revenue trains through the night if necessary) to keep snow and ice off the third rail. By Metro's own statements, they can and do run the rail system normally with up to six inches of snow; if there's 8 or more inches, they may shut down the above-ground portions of the system. However, those events are rare and are usually accompanied by the Federal Government closing, lots of flight cancellations, etc.

They'll certainly want to get the line up and running quickly after a storm, since the Dulles rail yard will be one of the biggest in the system - having access to and from the yards is a critical step in restoring service after a snow storm.
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:21 pm

blockski wrote:
That's entirely consistent with the WTOP reporting. By the way, they're not saying handover by July, they're saying start of operations - meaning handover to WMATA would be before then. Nobody's suggesting that it would open sooner than that, but there's also no good reason it would open much later than that, either.


The MWAA Silver Line Project Manager is offering up an aggressive, albeit delayed deadline (WMATA handover was originally scheduled for August 7th). No real surprise there, damage control is part of his job.

We'll see that happens next July but there is very little evidence the handover will be before then. The Post article reports Hansel Phillips, the rail yard contractor, won't have the area done until July 2020, about 18 months behind schedule. There's no way WMATA does final tests of the full line without the expanded yard.

This line is much longer than the existing lines. Are they going to shut down service at Ballston if the 6-8-inch snow line doesn't begin until the Dulles area? Hard to think it will be the status quo and WMATA will leave Tysons passengers stranded. I have a feeling they'll turn the trains around at a happy medium but likely before the IAD stop.
 
blockski
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:28 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
blockski wrote:
That's entirely consistent with the WTOP reporting. By the way, they're not saying handover by July, they're saying start of operations - meaning handover to WMATA would be before then. Nobody's suggesting that it would open sooner than that, but there's also no good reason it would open much later than that, either.


The MWAA Silver Line Project Manager is offering up an aggressive deadline. No real surprise there, that's his job.

We'll see that happens next July but there is very little evidence it will open before then. The Post article reports Hansel Phillips, the rail yard contractor, won't have the area done until July 2020, about 18 months behind schedule. There's no way WMATA operates the full line without the expanded yard.


Who is suggesting that it will open before July 2020?

This line is much longer than the existing lines. Are they going to shut down service at Ballston if the 6-8-inch snow line doesn't begin until the Dulles area? Hard to think it will be the status quo and WMATA will leave Tysons passengers stranded. I have a feeling they'll turn the trains around at a happy medium but likely before the IAD stop


There's no reason for them to change their snow policies. No, they're not going to shut down service if there's not actually any snow - they're certainly not going to strand passengers waiting for a train.

They have shut down service in advance of a known large storm, but in that scenario, everyone is sheltering in place anyway.

There's no scenario where WMATA would continue above-ground operations, but not run trains to the end of the line. Remember that one of their best tools to keep the tracks open is to keep the trains running frequently. Asserting that they will abandon the Dulles station with snowfall is irresponsible speculation.
 
capitalflyer
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:32 pm

x1234 wrote:
What's the new airline coming to IAD!?


It is some resurrected form of WOW air. And there is some question if this is even an effort that will get off the ground. IAD said it hadn't heard about any new proposed service. So I would not put any stock in it whatsoever.
 
winstonavgeek
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:34 pm

capitalflyer wrote:
x1234 wrote:
What's the new airline coming to IAD!?


It is some resurrected form of WOW air. And there is some question if this is even an effort that will get off the ground. IAD said it hadn't heard about any new proposed service. So I would not put any stock in it whatsoever.


Isn't Cabo Verde Airlines supposed to come at the end of the year?
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:46 pm

I amended my original post a few times. Dropped the reply in too early. I meant the handover in July

Also, this is the longest line going into the snowiest part of our region. I'm sure there will be adjustments. Hard to think it will be the status quo.
 
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msp747
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:21 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
I'm also curious how this line will operate in the winter. Western Fairfax and Loudoun Counties get significantly more snow and ice in the winter compared to locations inside the Beltway (and even locations like Shady Grove). How will they make the call operate it to Dulles and beyond? There's a third rail switch currently at Wiehle Ave. Will this be the cutoff?

The parts of Eastern Loudoun/Western Fairfax that the Silver Line services rarely get that much more snow. You have to go further out to see an impact. I have never found myself stuck in Ashburn, while the rest of the DMV has been free and clear. I really don't see this being an issue.
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:48 pm

msp747 wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:
I'm also curious how this line will operate in the winter. Western Fairfax and Loudoun Counties get significantly more snow and ice in the winter compared to locations inside the Beltway (and even locations like Shady Grove). How will they make the call operate it to Dulles and beyond? There's a third rail switch currently at Wiehle Ave. Will this be the cutoff?

The parts of Eastern Loudoun/Western Fairfax that the Silver Line services rarely get that much more snow. You have to go further out to see an impact. I have never found myself stuck in Ashburn, while the rest of the DMV has been free and clear. I really don't see this being an issue.


I work near Dulles, I live inside the Beltway. There have been plenty of times where Dulles has double the amount of snow compared to my home.

Also, there are plenty of times where Prince George’s County and low elevations along the Potomac receive no snow or a snow/rain mix with light accumulations while Ashburn sees 4-6”. If you have never seen this then you don’t winter here. It happens usually once a year.

DCA averages 15 inches while IAD averages 22. You could add another two inches onto the IAD total where the Silver Line will end. That’s not a small difference. It’s a very long line, going into the snowiest area. I do wonder if Wiehle will be used as a cutoff, the station is designed to be one.

Of course this is all moot for IAD travelers until the line is finished.

https://www.weather.gov/images/lwx/clim ... ormals.png
 
IADCA
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:55 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
msp747 wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:
I'm also curious how this line will operate in the winter. Western Fairfax and Loudoun Counties get significantly more snow and ice in the winter compared to locations inside the Beltway (and even locations like Shady Grove). How will they make the call operate it to Dulles and beyond? There's a third rail switch currently at Wiehle Ave. Will this be the cutoff?

The parts of Eastern Loudoun/Western Fairfax that the Silver Line services rarely get that much more snow. You have to go further out to see an impact. I have never found myself stuck in Ashburn, while the rest of the DMV has been free and clear. I really don't see this being an issue.


I work near Dulles, I live inside the Beltway. There have been plenty of times where Dulles has double the amount of snow compared to my home.

Also, there are plenty of times where Prince George’s County and low elevations along the Potomac receive no snow or a snow/rain mix with light accumulations while Ashburn sees 4-6”. If you have never seen this then you don’t winter here. It happens usually once a year.

DCA averages 15 inches while IAD averages 22. You could add another two inches onto the IAD total where the Silver Line will end. That’s not a small difference. It’s a very long line, going into the snowiest area. I do wonder if Wiehle will be used as a cutoff, the station is designed to be one.

Of course this is all moot for IAD travelers until the line is finished.

https://www.weather.gov/images/lwx/clim ... ormals.png


It's not as if Metro lacks experience with shutting down portions of lines while running the rest of the system normally. If there's significantly more snow in one place, I'm sure they'll manage, just as they manage the near-constant shutdowns of the end portions of other lines.
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:03 pm

IADCA wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:
msp747 wrote:
The parts of Eastern Loudoun/Western Fairfax that the Silver Line services rarely get that much more snow. You have to go further out to see an impact. I have never found myself stuck in Ashburn, while the rest of the DMV has been free and clear. I really don't see this being an issue.


I work near Dulles, I live inside the Beltway. There have been plenty of times where Dulles has double the amount of snow compared to my home.

Also, there are plenty of times where Prince George’s County and low elevations along the Potomac receive no snow or a snow/rain mix with light accumulations while Ashburn sees 4-6”. If you have never seen this then you don’t winter here. It happens usually once a year.

DCA averages 15 inches while IAD averages 22. You could add another two inches onto the IAD total where the Silver Line will end. That’s not a small difference. It’s a very long line, going into the snowiest area. I do wonder if Wiehle will be used as a cutoff, the station is designed to be one.

Of course this is all moot for IAD travelers until the line is finished.

https://www.weather.gov/images/lwx/clim ... ormals.png


It's not as if Metro lacks experience with shutting down portions of lines while running the rest of the system normally. If there's significantly more snow in one place, I'm sure they'll manage, just as they manage the near-constant shutdowns of the end portions of other lines.


I agree. I was just curious where the turnaround point will be with so much of this line being above ground. That’s all.
 
IADCA
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:12 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
IADCA wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:

I work near Dulles, I live inside the Beltway. There have been plenty of times where Dulles has double the amount of snow compared to my home.

Also, there are plenty of times where Prince George’s County and low elevations along the Potomac receive no snow or a snow/rain mix with light accumulations while Ashburn sees 4-6”. If you have never seen this then you don’t winter here. It happens usually once a year.

DCA averages 15 inches while IAD averages 22. You could add another two inches onto the IAD total where the Silver Line will end. That’s not a small difference. It’s a very long line, going into the snowiest area. I do wonder if Wiehle will be used as a cutoff, the station is designed to be one.

Of course this is all moot for IAD travelers until the line is finished.

https://www.weather.gov/images/lwx/clim ... ormals.png


It's not as if Metro lacks experience with shutting down portions of lines while running the rest of the system normally. If there's significantly more snow in one place, I'm sure they'll manage, just as they manage the near-constant shutdowns of the end portions of other lines.


I agree. I was just curious where the turnaround point will be with so much of this line being above ground. That’s all.


It'd probably be situation-specific. As it is now, all the above-ground end-line segments have multiple turnaround points. They could stop and turn at EFC, Wiehle, Dulles certainly, and probably some others.
 
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msp747
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:45 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
msp747 wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:
I'm also curious how this line will operate in the winter. Western Fairfax and Loudoun Counties get significantly more snow and ice in the winter compared to locations inside the Beltway (and even locations like Shady Grove). How will they make the call operate it to Dulles and beyond? There's a third rail switch currently at Wiehle Ave. Will this be the cutoff?

The parts of Eastern Loudoun/Western Fairfax that the Silver Line services rarely get that much more snow. You have to go further out to see an impact. I have never found myself stuck in Ashburn, while the rest of the DMV has been free and clear. I really don't see this being an issue.


I work near Dulles, I live inside the Beltway. There have been plenty of times where Dulles has double the amount of snow compared to my home.

Also, there are plenty of times where Prince George’s County and low elevations along the Potomac receive no snow or a snow/rain mix with light accumulations while Ashburn sees 4-6”. If you have never seen this then you don’t winter here. It happens usually once a year.

DCA averages 15 inches while IAD averages 22. You could add another two inches onto the IAD total where the Silver Line will end. That’s not a small difference. It’s a very long line, going into the snowiest area. I do wonder if Wiehle will be used as a cutoff, the station is designed to be one.

Of course this is all moot for IAD travelers until the line is finished.

https://www.weather.gov/images/lwx/clim ... ormals.png

I live in Ashburn and work in DC, and in my 5+ years out here, I've never seen things so much worse where I live that they would have to close just the end of the Silver Line. Your snow totals prove my point, because 7 inches spread out over a year is pretty negligible. And things aren't really going to be that much different in Reston than they are in Ashburn. If the region gets hit by a serious snow storm, the whole region will pretty much shut down, not just the end of the Silver Line.
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:19 pm

msp747 wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:
msp747 wrote:
The parts of Eastern Loudoun/Western Fairfax that the Silver Line services rarely get that much more snow. You have to go further out to see an impact. I have never found myself stuck in Ashburn, while the rest of the DMV has been free and clear. I really don't see this being an issue.


I work near Dulles, I live inside the Beltway. There have been plenty of times where Dulles has double the amount of snow compared to my home.

Also, there are plenty of times where Prince George’s County and low elevations along the Potomac receive no snow or a snow/rain mix with light accumulations while Ashburn sees 4-6”. If you have never seen this then you don’t winter here. It happens usually once a year.

DCA averages 15 inches while IAD averages 22. You could add another two inches onto the IAD total where the Silver Line will end. That’s not a small difference. It’s a very long line, going into the snowiest area. I do wonder if Wiehle will be used as a cutoff, the station is designed to be one.

Of course this is all moot for IAD travelers until the line is finished.

https://www.weather.gov/images/lwx/clim ... ormals.png

I live in Ashburn and work in DC, and in my 5+ years out here, I've never seen things so much worse where I live that they would have to close just the end of the Silver Line. Your snow totals prove my point, because 7 inches spread out over a year is pretty negligible. And things aren't really going to be that much different in Reston than they are in Ashburn. If the region gets hit by a serious snow storm, the whole region will pretty much shut down, not just the end of the Silver Line.


Closer to 8-9” in Ashburn to downtown, enough to make a decent difference in one or two storms a winter. The line is also exposed pretty much from Ballston to Loudoun. I think it will be trickier than even the Red Line to Shady Grove.
 
IADCA
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:25 am

izbtmnhd wrote:
msp747 wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:

I work near Dulles, I live inside the Beltway. There have been plenty of times where Dulles has double the amount of snow compared to my home.

Also, there are plenty of times where Prince George’s County and low elevations along the Potomac receive no snow or a snow/rain mix with light accumulations while Ashburn sees 4-6”. If you have never seen this then you don’t winter here. It happens usually once a year.

DCA averages 15 inches while IAD averages 22. You could add another two inches onto the IAD total where the Silver Line will end. That’s not a small difference. It’s a very long line, going into the snowiest area. I do wonder if Wiehle will be used as a cutoff, the station is designed to be one.

Of course this is all moot for IAD travelers until the line is finished.

https://www.weather.gov/images/lwx/clim ... ormals.png

I live in Ashburn and work in DC, and in my 5+ years out here, I've never seen things so much worse where I live that they would have to close just the end of the Silver Line. Your snow totals prove my point, because 7 inches spread out over a year is pretty negligible. And things aren't really going to be that much different in Reston than they are in Ashburn. If the region gets hit by a serious snow storm, the whole region will pretty much shut down, not just the end of the Silver Line.


Closer to 8-9” in Ashburn to downtown, enough to make a decent difference in one or two storms a winter. The line is also exposed pretty much from Ballston to Loudoun. I think it will be trickier than even the Red Line to Shady Grove.


Downtown to Ashburn isn't what matters, though. What you're really looking at is the difference between East Falls Church and Ashburn, which is less in terms of heat island effect and elevation change, or perhaps Wiehle, where the current system ends, and Ashburn - which is even less. I'd expect the difference between downtown and Reston to be much more than between Reston and Ashburn, so the issue you're talking about is already mostly baked into the current system.
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jul 28, 2019 2:41 pm

I agree the difference is smaller from Ballston. Still this is the longest segment of above ground rail by far in the system and it’s heading west where snow totals are generally higher. Hard to think there won’t be a learning curve once it’s completed.

Anyway, all of this dosen’t matter until the line is finished.
 
Trk1
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:02 pm

We have above ground trains going to the airport in Cleveland and Chicago and St. Louis. They have much more snow than Dulles area. Trains run very day all winter--snow is not an issue
 
CHOWahoo
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:52 pm

If there's a way to make a mess of the situation, WMATA will probably stumble into it. That said, getting the bus from Wiehle back up and running in a pinch shouldn't be that difficult.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:31 pm

Trk1 wrote:
We have above ground trains going to the airport in Cleveland and Chicago and St. Louis. They have much more snow than Dulles area. Trains run very day all winter--snow is not an issue

Indeed, probably because they aren't run by Metro! :rotfl:

Seriously though, the differences in amount and type of precip will hardly make much of a difference outside of extremely rare situations. Yes, there is a bit more snow in eastern Loudoun than western Fairfax, but the difference is hardly significant enough to be relevant. If we were talking about Winchester, that would be a different story, but we're talking a difference of roughly a dozen miles as the crow flies. Assuming Metro doesn't find a way to screw it up, the operational impacts due to inclement weather should be the same. I expect that disruptions in service to IAD due to inclement weather will be extremely rare, and limited only to major events that would similarly impact airport operations.
 
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ElroyJetson
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:04 am

This thread seems to be very Washington Metro focused which is fine, but I think a different perspective is needed if this truly covers the three states mentioned.

According to recent FAA data the Washington Metro area is largely stagnant in terms of pax growth other than IAD. The real growth is down state in Virginia.

The data can be found here at https://FAA.gov/airports

Key facts.

The fastest growing airports in region are:

RIC 12.46% 2017-2018

ORF 8.98%. 2017-2018

IAD 5.46% 2017-2018

BWI 3.06% 2017-2018

DCA -1.21%. 2017-2018


RIC is experiencing explosive growth.....among the fastest in the Nation. The top tier are airports like BNA, AUS, JAX, CHS, SAN and RDU to name a few, but RIC is among them. This is interesting but largely seems to get overlooked.

Since we all love talking about Washington i have said for some time the real growth opportunities are at IAD. I have outlined those reasons previously. But still, IAD growth is less than half of RIC on percentage basis.

Just three years ago RIC struggled to reach 3mil pax a year. In 2018 it blew past 4 mil with no end in sight. The implications of this growth has not been discussed. Frankly, in the context of this thread I think it should be.
707 717 727 72S 737 733 737-700 747 757 753 767-300 764 A319 A320 DC-9-10 DC-9-30 DC-9-50, MD-82 MD-88 MD-90 DC-10-10 DC-10-40 F-100
 
TEMPO
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:11 pm

winstonavgeek wrote:
capitalflyer wrote:
x1234 wrote:
What's the new airline coming to IAD!?


It is some resurrected form of WOW air. And there is some question if this is even an effort that will get off the ground. IAD said it hadn't heard about any new proposed service. So I would not put any stock in it whatsoever.


Isn't Cabo Verde Airlines supposed to come at the end of the year?


Yes, they are. A weekly 757 service beginning on 8th December.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... -dec-2019/
 
TEMPO
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:45 pm

ElroyJetson wrote:
This thread seems to be very Washington Metro focused which is fine, but I think a different perspective is needed if this truly covers the three states mentioned.

According to recent FAA data the Washington Metro area is largely stagnant in terms of pax growth other than IAD. The real growth is down state Virginia.


Eight smaller Virginia airports to get FAA grants of a total of $13 million to improve infrastructure. Charlottesville and Danville get about $3.6-3.7 million each.

https://wtop.com/virginia/2019/07/charl ... ecipients/
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:40 pm

Trk1 wrote:
We have above ground trains going to the airport in Cleveland and Chicago and St. Louis. They have much more snow than Dulles area. Trains run very day all winter--snow is not an issue


METRO pretty much runs all the time, even in heavy snow, but WMATA has a threshold for shutting service on outdoor lines. The Silver line is above ground for 20+ miles going into an increasingly snowy area. I'm just curious where the turnarounds will be. Not sure why you brought up Cleveland, Chicago or St. Louis. Are they run by WMATA?

I guess we'll just have to wait and see it in action.
 
blockski
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:55 pm

The 'increasingly snowy area' is specious. As is the length, which is irrelevant to operations.

WMATA's stated policy is simple and won't change. You don't have to wait for anything. It won't change because there is no reason for it to change. They run regular service until accumulations top 8 inches, at which point icing of the third rail is an issue and they will suspend rail service aboveground. If there's a storm that produces 8 inches of snow in a single go, then you're going to see major travel impacts on all area roads and airports anyway.

https://www.wmata.com/rider-guide/weather/rail.cfm

In the event that they do suspend service above ground on the Orange and Silver lines, there won't be any turnaround - trains will stop at Ballston.
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:05 pm

blockski wrote:
The 'increasingly snowy area' is specious. As is the length, which is irrelevant to operations.

WMATA's stated policy is simple and won't change. You don't have to wait for anything. It won't change because there is no reason for it to change. They run regular service until accumulations top 8 inches, at which point icing of the third rail is an issue and they will suspend rail service aboveground. If there's a storm that produces 8 inches of snow in a single go, then you're going to see major travel impacts on all area roads and airports anyway.

https://www.wmata.com/rider-guide/weather/rail.cfm

In the event that they do suspend service above ground on the Orange and Silver lines, there won't be any turnaround - trains will stop at Ballston.


Ashburn averages more than a half a foot of snow than downtown a season. Nothing specious about this fact.

As for the complete Silver Line operation in the winter, let's just wait and see. It's all good. Well they need to complete the line first! ;)
 
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ElroyJetson
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:35 pm

TEMPO wrote:
ElroyJetson wrote:
This thread seems to be very Washington Metro focused which is fine, but I think a different perspective is needed if this truly covers the three states mentioned.

According to recent FAA data the Washington Metro area is largely stagnant in terms of pax growth other than IAD. The real growth is down state Virginia.


Eight smaller Virginia airports to get FAA grants of a total of $13 million to improve infrastructure. Charlottesville and Danville get about $3.6-3.7 million each.

https://wtop.com/virginia/2019/07/charl ... ecipients/



I noticed in the FAA data set that I posted both ROA and CHO are also growing faster than the DC Metro airports.
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IADCA
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:51 pm

ElroyJetson wrote:
TEMPO wrote:
ElroyJetson wrote:
This thread seems to be very Washington Metro focused which is fine, but I think a different perspective is needed if this truly covers the three states mentioned.

According to recent FAA data the Washington Metro area is largely stagnant in terms of pax growth other than IAD. The real growth is down state Virginia.


Eight smaller Virginia airports to get FAA grants of a total of $13 million to improve infrastructure. Charlottesville and Danville get about $3.6-3.7 million each.

https://wtop.com/virginia/2019/07/charl ... ecipients/



I noticed in the FAA data set that I posted both ROA and CHO are also growing faster than the DC Metro airports.


Yes, all of them are doing well from small bases. CHO in particular was pretty underserved, and now that it's taking longer and longer to drive from Charlottesville itself to IAD, the airport is seeing some benefit from that. It's great to see the growth there and in Richmond.
 
capitalflyer
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:26 pm

TEMPO wrote:
ElroyJetson wrote:
This thread seems to be very Washington Metro focused which is fine, but I think a different perspective is needed if this truly covers the three states mentioned.

According to recent FAA data the Washington Metro area is largely stagnant in terms of pax growth other than IAD. The real growth is down state Virginia.


Eight smaller Virginia airports to get FAA grants of a total of $13 million to improve infrastructure. Charlottesville and Danville get about $3.6-3.7 million each.

https://wtop.com/virginia/2019/07/charl ... ecipients/


Interesting. Do I see correctly that CHO has just one jetway? Seems this should be the next priority.
 
blockski
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:07 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
blockski wrote:
The 'increasingly snowy area' is specious. As is the length, which is irrelevant to operations.

WMATA's stated policy is simple and won't change. You don't have to wait for anything. It won't change because there is no reason for it to change. They run regular service until accumulations top 8 inches, at which point icing of the third rail is an issue and they will suspend rail service aboveground. If there's a storm that produces 8 inches of snow in a single go, then you're going to see major travel impacts on all area roads and airports anyway.

https://www.wmata.com/rider-guide/weather/rail.cfm

In the event that they do suspend service above ground on the Orange and Silver lines, there won't be any turnaround - trains will stop at Ballston.


Ashburn averages more than a half a foot of snow than downtown a season. Nothing specious about this fact.

As for the complete Silver Line operation in the winter, let's just wait and see. It's all good. Well they need to complete the line first! ;)


Half a foot, meaning... six inches. Yes, averaging an extra six inches a season is indeed specious. That means an average of 1.5 inches a month during the snowy months. Which is precisely nothing. If you're arguing that because Ashburn gets an extra 1.5 inches of snow a month, and that will somehow require new Metro procedures for a system that needs at least 8 inches of snow in a day to shut down, then I don't know what else to say. Even if that extra six inches of snow all came in one storm, that's exactly the kind of storm Metro would operate through without shutting down the rail system.
 
blockski
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:17 pm

IADCA wrote:
ElroyJetson wrote:
TEMPO wrote:

Eight smaller Virginia airports to get FAA grants of a total of $13 million to improve infrastructure. Charlottesville and Danville get about $3.6-3.7 million each.

https://wtop.com/virginia/2019/07/charl ... ecipients/



I noticed in the FAA data set that I posted both ROA and CHO are also growing faster than the DC Metro airports.


Yes, all of them are doing well from small bases. CHO in particular was pretty underserved, and now that it's taking longer and longer to drive from Charlottesville itself to IAD, the airport is seeing some benefit from that. It's great to see the growth there and in Richmond.


Yeah, the 'growing faster' language is highly misleading because of the huge gap in overall size. The airports are in entirely different categories.

Dulles grew by 600,000 enplanements last year; BWI by 400,000.

RIC grew by 225,000, ORF by 150,000, ROA by 21,000 and CHO grew by 19,000.
 
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ElroyJetson
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:53 pm

blockski wrote:
IADCA wrote:
ElroyJetson wrote:


I noticed in the FAA data set that I posted both ROA and CHO are also growing faster than the DC Metro airports.


Yes, all of them are doing well from small bases. CHO in particular was pretty underserved, and now that it's taking longer and longer to drive from Charlottesville itself to IAD, the airport is seeing some benefit from that. It's great to see the growth there and in Richmond.


Yeah, the 'growing faster' language is highly misleading because of the huge gap in overall size. The airports are in entirely different categories.

Dulles grew by 600,000 enplanements last year; BWI by 400,000.

RIC grew by 225,000, ORF by 150,000, ROA by 21,000 and CHO grew by 19,000.


It is not misleading it is factual. RIC is growing at more than twice the rate of any DC airport. I did not say total enplanements....I very specifically stated rate of growth. And 4 million enplanements a year is significant. Washington is a mature market. RIC, ORF are not. Hence, much more potential for growth. The airports nationally that are of real interest right now are some of the ones I mentioned. RIC, BNA, RDU, JAX, CHS, AUS, SAN and a few others. Mature hubs are mostly growing at a 3-5% annual increase. BWI is at the lower end of the spectrum, IAD at the upper end.

The high growth airports like RIC deserve more attention imho. DCA and BWI are negative growth and growth at 3%. Yawn. My point is endless rehashing the Metro DC airports while ignoring some truly exciting growth in this thread's catchment area is a bit shortsighted. I find the potential for IAD to be interesting and I have talked about it quite a bit. But I personally find the explosive growth at RIC very interesting as well. All should be discussed.
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msp747
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:07 pm

ElroyJetson wrote:
blockski wrote:
IADCA wrote:

Yes, all of them are doing well from small bases. CHO in particular was pretty underserved, and now that it's taking longer and longer to drive from Charlottesville itself to IAD, the airport is seeing some benefit from that. It's great to see the growth there and in Richmond.


Yeah, the 'growing faster' language is highly misleading because of the huge gap in overall size. The airports are in entirely different categories.

Dulles grew by 600,000 enplanements last year; BWI by 400,000.

RIC grew by 225,000, ORF by 150,000, ROA by 21,000 and CHO grew by 19,000.


It is not misleading it is factual. RIC is growing at more than twice the rate of any DC airport. I did not say total enplanements....I very specifically stated rate of growth. And 4 million enplanements a year is significant. Washington is a mature market. RIC, ORF are not. Hence, much more potential for growth. The airports nationally that are of real interest right now are some of the ones I mentioned. RIC, BNA, RDU, JAX, CHS, AUS, SAN and a few others. Mature hubs are mostly growing at a 3-5% annual increase. BWI is at the lower end of the spectrum, IAD at the upper end.

The high growth airports like RIC deserve more attention imho. DCA and BWI are negative growth and growth at 3%. Yawn. My point is endless rehashing the Metro DC airports while ignoring some truly exciting growth in this thread's catchment area is a bit shortsighted. I find the potential for IAD to be interesting and I have talked about it quite a bit. But I personally find the explosive growth at RIC very interesting as well. All should be discussed.


Has someone said we shouldn't discuss RIC and other smaller airports in the region? I have seen plenty posted on them on this site and I read it. However, this topic covers all the airports in the region, big and small, so you are obviously going to have more discussion on the DC area airports because those are the airports most of us involved in this discussion tend to use. I have nothing to add to discussions about RIC because I have never flown there. If I need to go to Richmond, I drive. If you think the smaller airports should become a separate thread from the DC airports, take it up with the mods. But don't flame us for "rehashing" news about the airports most of us use. You may not care, but it impacts us.
 
blockski
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:14 pm

ElroyJetson wrote:
blockski wrote:
IADCA wrote:

Yes, all of them are doing well from small bases. CHO in particular was pretty underserved, and now that it's taking longer and longer to drive from Charlottesville itself to IAD, the airport is seeing some benefit from that. It's great to see the growth there and in Richmond.


Yeah, the 'growing faster' language is highly misleading because of the huge gap in overall size. The airports are in entirely different categories.

Dulles grew by 600,000 enplanements last year; BWI by 400,000.

RIC grew by 225,000, ORF by 150,000, ROA by 21,000 and CHO grew by 19,000.


It is not misleading it is factual. RIC is growing at more than twice the rate of any DC airport. I did not say total enplanements....I very specifically stated rate of growth. And 4 million enplanements a year is significant. Washington is a mature market. RIC, ORF are not. Hence, much more potential for growth. The airports nationally that are of real interest right now are some of the ones I mentioned. RIC, BNA, RDU, JAX, CHS, AUS, SAN and a few others. Mature hubs are mostly growing at a 3-5% annual increase. BWI is at the lower end of the spectrum, IAD at the upper end.

The high growth airports like RIC deserve more attention imho. DCA and BWI are negative growth and growth at 3%. Yawn. My point is endless rehashing the Metro DC airports while ignoring some truly exciting growth in this thread's catchment area is a bit shortsighted. I find the potential for IAD to be interesting and I have talked about it quite a bit. But I personally find the explosive growth at RIC very interesting as well. All should be discussed.


Well, I guess I find the focus on the rate of growth as the sole metric to be misleading. Particularly when there's such a small base - that gives big percentage swings for changes that are still quite small in the absolute sense. Which isn't to take anything away from the growth in Richmond in particular.

Again, these airports are in entirely different categories. I wanted to highlight the total enplanements precisely because you omitted that data. Having the full picture is more useful, IMHO. Just as a point of comparison:

BWI: 13.4m enplanements
IAD: 11.6
DCA: 11.4

36.4m enplanements for the DC3.

RIC: 2.0
ORF: 1.8
CHO: 0.35
ROA: 0.33

4.48m enplanements combined.

The DC region is endlessly fascinating because of the three airport setup, the multiple hubs in the region, and the broader regional dynamics. For example, most of IAD's growth has little to do with IAD's local market and everything to do with United's shift in strategy. Some local factors are probably pushing recent international additions. We're still seeing the shakeouts in this region from the big mergers, impacting IAD in particular, but also AA's consolidation in DCA. WN's continued growth at BWI is also impressive; their particular policies on interlining probably limit BWI's ambitions to grow international traffic, but that's always a factor to watch as well.
 
jplatts
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:33 pm

blockski wrote:
WN's continued growth at BWI is also impressive; their particular policies on interlining probably limit BWI's ambitions to grow international traffic, but that's always a factor to watch as well.


While WN already has nonstop service out of BWI to most of the domestic destinations that it will ever serve nonstop from BWI, there are a few more nonstop domestic routes that could be added by WN out of BWI such as BWI-DSM, BWI-ELP, BWI-OMA, BWI-RNO, BWI-SFO, and BWI-TUS.

WN could also extend BWI-PDX and BWI-SEA to year-round nonstop service since PDX and SEA are two of the top destinations traveled to from BWI that WN doesn't serve nonstop on a year-round basis.
 
blockski
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:01 pm

jplatts wrote:
blockski wrote:
WN's continued growth at BWI is also impressive; their particular policies on interlining probably limit BWI's ambitions to grow international traffic, but that's always a factor to watch as well.


While WN already has nonstop service out of BWI to most of the domestic destinations that it will ever serve nonstop from BWI, there are a few more nonstop domestic routes that could be added by WN out of BWI such as BWI-DSM, BWI-ELP, BWI-OMA, BWI-RNO, BWI-SFO, and BWI-TUS.

WN could also extend BWI-PDX and BWI-SEA to year-round nonstop service since PDX and SEA are two of the top destinations traveled to from BWI that WN doesn't serve nonstop on a year-round basis.


Yeah, I was thinking more of BWI's ambitions to increase international service. Right now, Southwest seems constrained by their IT capabilities, particularly to look at tourist-centric destinations with primarily US point of sale.

At the same time, they still haven't made any big codeshare agreements with foreign carriers - which would enable an airport like BWI to leverage Southwest's network to grow international service to/from the airport.
 
dcaproducer
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:01 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
Trk1 wrote:
We have above ground trains going to the airport in Cleveland and Chicago and St. Louis. They have much more snow than Dulles area. Trains run very day all winter--snow is not an issue


METRO pretty much runs all the time, even in heavy snow, but WMATA has a threshold for shutting service on outdoor lines. The Silver line is above ground for 20+ miles going into an increasingly snowy area. I'm just curious where the turnarounds will be. Not sure why you brought up Cleveland, Chicago or St. Louis. Are they run by WMATA?

I guess we'll just have to wait and see it in action.


Completely agree on WMATA.

Also, STL doesn’t average as much snow as Dulles, and the STL Metro system is powered above the trains. WMATA relies on a third rail.
With that said, the DC area doesn’t get that much snow that this would be a major issue. We get some big storms, but we’ve also had a couple of recent winters with almost no snow.

I think other operational challenges will impact Metro more than snow.
 
blockski
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:06 pm

Here's a bit of my own personal speculation...

The PANYNJ released a request for information for the 'JFK Central Hub' as a part of their airport redevelopment. The concept is to seek out a developer to add a public space and other uses (office, retail, hotel, etc) on top of the new ground transportation center to be built next to an expanded T4 and new T1: http://www.panynj.gov/business-opportun ... _54580.pdf

They cite examples to inspire the concept from the adjacent developments at AMS, FRA, and ZRH.

I'd also add MUC as an example of a combination public space/office/hotel complex outside of security at an airport terminal. If JFK pulls this off, this would be the only US example I can think of.

In the DC region, I've long thought that the surface parking lot in front of the Dulles terminal is precisely the kind of space that would be suitable for this kind of development once the Metro station opens. The space is certainly large enough; and the proximity to Metro opens the door to all sorts of new opportunities. MWAA has looked in the past at opportunities for a new hotel closer to the terminal, and this would also be a potential location for that use.
 
professorpryor
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:45 pm

winstonavgeek wrote:
capitalflyer wrote:
x1234 wrote:
What's the new airline coming to IAD!?


It is some resurrected form of WOW air. And there is some question if this is even an effort that will get off the ground. IAD said it hadn't heard about any new proposed service. So I would not put any stock in it whatsoever.


Isn't Cabo Verde Airlines supposed to come at the end of the year?


According to Planespotters, the 757 appearing in the recent promo ads is really a repainted Icelandair plane.

One of my Verdiano students tried to explain the logic to me. Icelandair owns 51% of Cabo Verde Airlines and will (apparently) attempt to use their International airports as jump points to the African continent and the Middle East just as Iceland does for European airports.

If that's true, the 757 might not be the best aircraft choice.
 
ITB
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:04 am

blockski wrote:
In the DC region, I've long thought that the surface parking lot in front of the Dulles terminal is precisely the kind of space that would be suitable for this kind of development once the Metro station opens. The space is certainly large enough; and the proximity to Metro opens the door to all sorts of new opportunities. MWAA has looked in the past at opportunities for a new hotel closer to the terminal, and this would also be a potential location for that use.


I, too, have had similar thoughts about what could be done with the Terminal Hourly/Terminal Daily parking lot adjacent to the terminal. However, any redevelopment of the lot is a long shot due to the potential obstruction of the sweeping wing architectural detail of the terminal. Any interference with the panorama of the terminal's landside façade is apparently a big no-no. That's why after more than 50 years, the parking lot remains a parking lot, and also a reason why the Metro station is located next to the garage instead of being adjacent to the terminal.

As many of you know, the Metro station was originally planned to be located deep underground beneath the terminal, but tunneling and other costs proved prohibitive. MWAA then compromised and selected a plan which located the station underneath the Hourly/Daily lot. However, that decision was not warmly received at all, particularly by Loudoun and Fairfax county authorities, again mainly due to cost. In fact, former Rep. Frank Wolfe was so unhappy he engineered a federal audit of MWAA, which revealed some questionable spending practices, putting MWAA in the spotlight and on the defensive. Anyway, as you can imagine, plans for an underground station were soon discarded. This led to the decision to place the station where it is situated today—above ground next to the garage.
 
blockski
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:54 pm

ITB wrote:
blockski wrote:
In the DC region, I've long thought that the surface parking lot in front of the Dulles terminal is precisely the kind of space that would be suitable for this kind of development once the Metro station opens. The space is certainly large enough; and the proximity to Metro opens the door to all sorts of new opportunities. MWAA has looked in the past at opportunities for a new hotel closer to the terminal, and this would also be a potential location for that use.


I, too, have had similar thoughts about what could be done with the Terminal Hourly/Terminal Daily parking lot adjacent to the terminal. However, any redevelopment of the lot is a long shot due to the potential obstruction of the sweeping wing architectural detail of the terminal. Any interference with the panorama of the terminal's landside façade is apparently a big no-no. That's why after more than 50 years, the parking lot remains a parking lot, and also a reason why the Metro station is located next to the garage instead of being adjacent to the terminal.

As many of you know, the Metro station was originally planned to be located deep underground beneath the terminal, but tunneling and other costs proved prohibitive. MWAA then compromised and selected a plan which located the station underneath the Hourly/Daily lot. However, that decision was not warmly received at all, particularly by Loudoun and Fairfax county authorities, again mainly due to cost. In fact, former Rep. Frank Wolfe was so unhappy he engineered a federal audit of MWAA, which revealed some questionable spending practices, putting MWAA in the spotlight and on the defensive. Anyway, as you can imagine, plans for an underground station were soon discarded. This led to the decision to place the station where it is situated today—above ground next to the garage.


Yes, there would be some serious challenges to redeveloping the surface lot. That said, I think it's still possible.

While the views of the Terminal while approaching are indeed somewhat protected, that doesn't mean they're sacrosanct and can never be changed. Indeed, the construction of the Metro elevated guideway changes them significantly. I'd also expect any concept to involve a good deal of below-grade work, since that's the level at which the Metro station connects (the current tunnel level).

My other impression is that during peak times, the flow through Saarinen Circle is getting pretty congested. Some of that might be due to ongoing construction impacts, but I'll bet a lot of it is just the growing levels of traffic as well as the changing nature of how people get to the airport - big rise in Uber/Lyft use, etc.

All of that sets the ground for a reconsideration of both ground transportation and how that valuable real estate is used.
 
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Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:33 am

Swiss to start daily ZRH-IAD using A333 from 29 March 20

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Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos