Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

  • 1
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8
  • 9
  • 10
 
zuckie13
Posts: 314
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:23 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Nov 15, 2019 4:15 pm

USAirALB wrote:
Because of my location, I should prefer DCA and BWI over IAD. But for some reason, I absolutely hate going to BWI. I find the amenities at the airport (specifically the AA concourse) to be outdated and the concourse to be dark and old. Mentally I think it is further simply because I have to take commuter rail to get there when I can take Metro/Metrobus to DCA and IAD. Yes, I know Metro also has a bus to BWI, but Greenbelt is far for me and the bus schedule isn't convenient. I hate the shuttle bus from the BWI rail station to the terminal as well. It's always crowded.


They just did the refresh of Concourse C at BWI in the last 5 years maybe (where AA gates are) - It's not the prettiest, but it's not outdated - plus it's tied A & B now, so there are plenty of amenities available.
 
User avatar
msp747
Posts: 479
Joined: Sat May 29, 2010 6:42 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:32 pm

USAirALB wrote:
I live about a 6 min walk away from the NoMa station (1 stop north of Union on the Red Line), and it usually takes me:

-35 minutes to get to DCA (transfer at Gallery)
-75 minutes to get to IAD (transfer at Metro Ctr, transfer at Rosslyn to bus 5A)
-65 minutes to get to BWI (connect at Union to MARC, transfer to shuttle bus)

Because of my location, I should prefer DCA and BWI over IAD. But for some reason, I absolutely hate going to BWI. I find the amenities at the airport (specifically the AA concourse) to be outdated and the concourse to be dark and old. Mentally I think it is further simply because I have to take commuter rail to get there when I can take Metro/Metrobus to DCA and IAD. Yes, I know Metro also has a bus to BWI, but Greenbelt is far for me and the bus schedule isn't convenient. I hate the shuttle bus from the BWI rail station to the terminal as well. It's always crowded.

I actually prefer IAD over DCA. I really, really like Concourses A/B. They are actually two of my favorite terminal buildings in the US. I also like the Priority Pass lounges at IAD. It's always fun to see the foreign flagged carriers at IAD, as well. There is usually no one ever on the 5A bus, and it is pretty quick.

DCA is good, as with TSA Pre and Clear, I can show up just as my flight is boarding and simply walk on. It's crowded though, and I don't think the amenities are as nice as IAD.

Curious, but how does the Silver Line Express (bus from Reston/Wiehle) compare when going to IAD? Have you tried that before?
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2333
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:52 pm

msp747 wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
I live about a 6 min walk away from the NoMa station (1 stop north of Union on the Red Line), and it usually takes me:

-35 minutes to get to DCA (transfer at Gallery)
-75 minutes to get to IAD (transfer at Metro Ctr, transfer at Rosslyn to bus 5A)
-65 minutes to get to BWI (connect at Union to MARC, transfer to shuttle bus)

Because of my location, I should prefer DCA and BWI over IAD. But for some reason, I absolutely hate going to BWI. I find the amenities at the airport (specifically the AA concourse) to be outdated and the concourse to be dark and old. Mentally I think it is further simply because I have to take commuter rail to get there when I can take Metro/Metrobus to DCA and IAD. Yes, I know Metro also has a bus to BWI, but Greenbelt is far for me and the bus schedule isn't convenient. I hate the shuttle bus from the BWI rail station to the terminal as well. It's always crowded.

I actually prefer IAD over DCA. I really, really like Concourses A/B. They are actually two of my favorite terminal buildings in the US. I also like the Priority Pass lounges at IAD. It's always fun to see the foreign flagged carriers at IAD, as well. There is usually no one ever on the 5A bus, and it is pretty quick.

DCA is good, as with TSA Pre and Clear, I can show up just as my flight is boarding and simply walk on. It's crowded though, and I don't think the amenities are as nice as IAD.

Curious, but how does the Silver Line Express (bus from Reston/Wiehle) compare when going to IAD? Have you tried that before?

I don’t like it because you can’t use your SmarTrip card on it and have to physically buy a ticket upon arriving at the airport from the these nasty ticket agents who always seem to have a problem with their credit card reader.

I have a monthly pass on my SmarTrip card so I only pay $3.75 for the 5A Dulles Line bus versus $5 for the Silver Line Express bus.

I also prefer waiting for the bus at Rosslyn because I can wait inside Compass Coffee for the bus to come but at Wiehle Reston you are waiting in a parking garage for the bus.

If they honored SmarTrip cards I might consider taking it.
RJ85, F70, E135, E140, E145, E70, E75, E90, CR2, CR7, CR9, 717, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 744ER, 752, 753, 762, 772, 77E, 77W, 789, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343, 359, 388
 
User avatar
msp747
Posts: 479
Joined: Sat May 29, 2010 6:42 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:03 pm

USAirALB wrote:
msp747 wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
I live about a 6 min walk away from the NoMa station (1 stop north of Union on the Red Line), and it usually takes me:

-35 minutes to get to DCA (transfer at Gallery)
-75 minutes to get to IAD (transfer at Metro Ctr, transfer at Rosslyn to bus 5A)
-65 minutes to get to BWI (connect at Union to MARC, transfer to shuttle bus)

Because of my location, I should prefer DCA and BWI over IAD. But for some reason, I absolutely hate going to BWI. I find the amenities at the airport (specifically the AA concourse) to be outdated and the concourse to be dark and old. Mentally I think it is further simply because I have to take commuter rail to get there when I can take Metro/Metrobus to DCA and IAD. Yes, I know Metro also has a bus to BWI, but Greenbelt is far for me and the bus schedule isn't convenient. I hate the shuttle bus from the BWI rail station to the terminal as well. It's always crowded.

I actually prefer IAD over DCA. I really, really like Concourses A/B. They are actually two of my favorite terminal buildings in the US. I also like the Priority Pass lounges at IAD. It's always fun to see the foreign flagged carriers at IAD, as well. There is usually no one ever on the 5A bus, and it is pretty quick.

DCA is good, as with TSA Pre and Clear, I can show up just as my flight is boarding and simply walk on. It's crowded though, and I don't think the amenities are as nice as IAD.

Curious, but how does the Silver Line Express (bus from Reston/Wiehle) compare when going to IAD? Have you tried that before?

I don’t like it because you can’t use your SmarTrip card on it and have to physically buy a ticket upon arriving at the airport from the these nasty ticket agents who always seem to have a problem with their credit card reader.

I have a monthly pass on my SmarTrip card so I only pay $3.75 for the 5A Dulles Line bus versus $5 for the Silver Line Express bus.

I also prefer waiting for the bus at Rosslyn because I can wait inside Compass Coffee for the bus to come but at Wiehle Reston you are waiting in a parking garage for the bus.

If they honored SmarTrip cards I might consider taking it.

Makes sense. Very odd that they do not honor SmarTrip. It's like they are trying to discourage locals from using it and reserving it only for tourists.
 
NiMar
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:08 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:21 pm

I used the 5A bus recently. Not too bad. Doing the strange stop at Herndon Monroe Park and Ride while it is all under construction (and for all intents and purposes closed) for basically zero users is an asinine waste of time.
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2333
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:47 pm

msp747 wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
msp747 wrote:
Curious, but how does the Silver Line Express (bus from Reston/Wiehle) compare when going to IAD? Have you tried that before?

I don’t like it because you can’t use your SmarTrip card on it and have to physically buy a ticket upon arriving at the airport from the these nasty ticket agents who always seem to have a problem with their credit card reader.

I have a monthly pass on my SmarTrip card so I only pay $3.75 for the 5A Dulles Line bus versus $5 for the Silver Line Express bus.

I also prefer waiting for the bus at Rosslyn because I can wait inside Compass Coffee for the bus to come but at Wiehle Reston you are waiting in a parking garage for the bus.

If they honored SmarTrip cards I might consider taking it.

Makes sense. Very odd that they do not honor SmarTrip. It's like they are trying to discourage locals from using it and reserving it only for tourists.

I’ve brought that up to the nasty ticket agents and they snapped back that they don’t accept the card because they aren’t owned by WMATA so they can’t...yet ART/RideOn and PG County buses accept the card.
NiMar wrote:
I used the 5A bus recently. Not too bad. Doing the strange stop at Herndon Monroe Park and Ride while it is all under construction (and for all intents and purposes closed) for basically zero users is an asinine waste of time.

It depends when you use it. I have taken it during rush hour and a ton of commuters got off. I’m taking it tomorrow morning to catch a flight and I’m sure no one will disembark, however.
RJ85, F70, E135, E140, E145, E70, E75, E90, CR2, CR7, CR9, 717, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 744ER, 752, 753, 762, 772, 77E, 77W, 789, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343, 359, 388
 
blockski
Posts: 690
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:30 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:49 pm

msp747 wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
msp747 wrote:
Curious, but how does the Silver Line Express (bus from Reston/Wiehle) compare when going to IAD? Have you tried that before?

I don’t like it because you can’t use your SmarTrip card on it and have to physically buy a ticket upon arriving at the airport from the these nasty ticket agents who always seem to have a problem with their credit card reader.

I have a monthly pass on my SmarTrip card so I only pay $3.75 for the 5A Dulles Line bus versus $5 for the Silver Line Express bus.

I also prefer waiting for the bus at Rosslyn because I can wait inside Compass Coffee for the bus to come but at Wiehle Reston you are waiting in a parking garage for the bus.

If they honored SmarTrip cards I might consider taking it.

Makes sense. Very odd that they do not honor SmarTrip. It's like they are trying to discourage locals from using it and reserving it only for tourists.


It's not that odd if you know the workings of DC transit agencies.

It's not easy to accept SmarTrip cards. You basically need to be a part of the regional transit system. Adding the fareboxes and other infrastructure to accept the SmarTrip card is unfortunately quite expensive and time consuming; when WMATA moves to a new fare system, hopefully services like this can be much more easily linked.

The Silver Line express is operated by the airport (via a contractor) and that's why they have a separate ticketing system.

In my experience, there's not a huge time savings with the Silver Line express from Rosslyn. It all depends on your specific circumstances. If you're already on the Silver Line to get to Rosslyn, then you can just stay on board. Likewise, if you're on the Orange/Silver lines to the west of Rosslyn, there's not a lot of reason to backtrack and get on the bus.

The Silver Line Express also runs more frequently than the 5A does, which is nice. Depending on the time of day, the 5A might only be every 40 minutes. Having a redundant option is nice.

I haven't ridden the 5A in a while, but I had a couple of trips that were absolutely jam packed - no room for even a suitcase. The Silver Line Express buses are much easier with luggage, using the same large luggage racks at the rear door. The buses on the 5A do have some racks, but they're not enough if the bus is full.
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2333
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:02 pm

It’s also my understanding that the Silver Line Express bus will be discontinued when Silver Line phase 2 opens next summer.

IIRC, Fairfax county does run buses to Dulles as well from Wiehle (or Vienna, I can’t remember).
RJ85, F70, E135, E140, E145, E70, E75, E90, CR2, CR7, CR9, 717, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 744ER, 752, 753, 762, 772, 77E, 77W, 789, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343, 359, 388
 
DALMD80
Posts: 501
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:25 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:21 pm

zuckie13 wrote:
DALMD80 wrote:
Another question about BWI, do aircraft EVER takeoff from 33L? I've spotted there several times and arrivals were on 33L/R but departures were on 28!


It's fairly uncommon - use of both main runways is always preferred - but does happen occasionally.

Generally the preferred configuration winds allowing is Land 33L, Depart 28.
2nd Choice is Land 10, Depart 15R

Once in a while, winds will force single runway ops - that's when its most likely to happen.

What about Land 15R?
2 things- Wear a mask, and vote. It's that simple.
 
blockski
Posts: 690
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:30 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:33 pm

USAirALB wrote:
It’s also my understanding that the Silver Line Express bus will be discontinued when Silver Line phase 2 opens next summer.

IIRC, Fairfax county does run buses to Dulles as well from Wiehle (or Vienna, I can’t remember).


Yes, that's the plan.

This service replaced the old Washington Flyer coach bus service from West Falls Church to IAD; when they replaced it, they're using the same buses as they use for parking shuttle operations, so I'd imagine the buses will be re-used in that context.

It's not clear what will happen to the 5A bus; WMATA has tried to cut it in the past, and will likely do so again once the Silver Line is operational. I think there's still a case for bus service to Dulles outside of Metrorail operating hours, but that's going to be a heavy lift.

Fairfax Connector does operate two routes to IAD, the 981 and 981; both go from the end of the Silver Line to the airport; the 983 also goes to the Udvar-Hazy Center.

https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/connector ... 15_web.pdf

Fairfax Connector will undoubtedly do a large bus network shift once the new Metro stations open; right now many routes feed into the end of the Silver Line at Wiehle Ave; and those will certainly shift. I would love to see a good bus connection between the main Dulles terminal area and the Udvar-Hazy Center. I know the airport has been reluctant to offer that as they don't want to encourage remote parking at the museum.
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2333
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:19 pm

blockski wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
It’s also my understanding that the Silver Line Express bus will be discontinued when Silver Line phase 2 opens next summer.

IIRC, Fairfax county does run buses to Dulles as well from Wiehle (or Vienna, I can’t remember).


Yes, that's the plan.

This service replaced the old Washington Flyer coach bus service from West Falls Church to IAD; when they replaced it, they're using the same buses as they use for parking shuttle operations, so I'd imagine the buses will be re-used in that context.

It's not clear what will happen to the 5A bus; WMATA has tried to cut it in the past, and will likely do so again once the Silver Line is operational. I think there's still a case for bus service to Dulles outside of Metrorail operating hours, but that's going to be a heavy lift.

Fairfax Connector does operate two routes to IAD, the 981 and 981; both go from the end of the Silver Line to the airport; the 983 also goes to the Udvar-Hazy Center.

https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/connector ... 15_web.pdf

Fairfax Connector will undoubtedly do a large bus network shift once the new Metro stations open; right now many routes feed into the end of the Silver Line at Wiehle Ave; and those will certainly shift. I would love to see a good bus connection between the main Dulles terminal area and the Udvar-Hazy Center. I know the airport has been reluctant to offer that as they don't want to encourage remote parking at the museum.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the 5A (or the BWI B30 bus, for that matter) announced as one of the routes proposed to be cut as part of the 9 "least productive bus routes" as part of the recently announced FY 2021 budget.
RJ85, F70, E135, E140, E145, E70, E75, E90, CR2, CR7, CR9, 717, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 744ER, 752, 753, 762, 772, 77E, 77W, 789, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343, 359, 388
 
izbtmnhd
Posts: 944
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:42 pm

USAirALB wrote:
blockski wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
It’s also my understanding that the Silver Line Express bus will be discontinued when Silver Line phase 2 opens next summer.

IIRC, Fairfax county does run buses to Dulles as well from Wiehle (or Vienna, I can’t remember).


Yes, that's the plan.

This service replaced the old Washington Flyer coach bus service from West Falls Church to IAD; when they replaced it, they're using the same buses as they use for parking shuttle operations, so I'd imagine the buses will be re-used in that context.

It's not clear what will happen to the 5A bus; WMATA has tried to cut it in the past, and will likely do so again once the Silver Line is operational. I think there's still a case for bus service to Dulles outside of Metrorail operating hours, but that's going to be a heavy lift.

Fairfax Connector does operate two routes to IAD, the 981 and 981; both go from the end of the Silver Line to the airport; the 983 also goes to the Udvar-Hazy Center.

https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/connector ... 15_web.pdf

Fairfax Connector will undoubtedly do a large bus network shift once the new Metro stations open; right now many routes feed into the end of the Silver Line at Wiehle Ave; and those will certainly shift. I would love to see a good bus connection between the main Dulles terminal area and the Udvar-Hazy Center. I know the airport has been reluctant to offer that as they don't want to encourage remote parking at the museum.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the 5A (or the BWI B30 bus, for that matter) announced as one of the routes proposed to be cut as part of the 9 "least productive bus routes" as part of the recently announced FY 2021 budget.


Once the Silver Line is complete in 2020 or 2021, the 5A bus route will be history.
 
blockski
Posts: 690
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:30 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:44 pm

USAirALB wrote:
blockski wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
It’s also my understanding that the Silver Line Express bus will be discontinued when Silver Line phase 2 opens next summer.

IIRC, Fairfax county does run buses to Dulles as well from Wiehle (or Vienna, I can’t remember).


Yes, that's the plan.

This service replaced the old Washington Flyer coach bus service from West Falls Church to IAD; when they replaced it, they're using the same buses as they use for parking shuttle operations, so I'd imagine the buses will be re-used in that context.

It's not clear what will happen to the 5A bus; WMATA has tried to cut it in the past, and will likely do so again once the Silver Line is operational. I think there's still a case for bus service to Dulles outside of Metrorail operating hours, but that's going to be a heavy lift.

Fairfax Connector does operate two routes to IAD, the 981 and 981; both go from the end of the Silver Line to the airport; the 983 also goes to the Udvar-Hazy Center.

https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/connector ... 15_web.pdf

Fairfax Connector will undoubtedly do a large bus network shift once the new Metro stations open; right now many routes feed into the end of the Silver Line at Wiehle Ave; and those will certainly shift. I would love to see a good bus connection between the main Dulles terminal area and the Udvar-Hazy Center. I know the airport has been reluctant to offer that as they don't want to encourage remote parking at the museum.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the 5A (or the BWI B30 bus, for that matter) announced as one of the routes proposed to be cut as part of the 9 "least productive bus routes" as part of the recently announced FY 2021 budget.


I would! The 5A is certianly not one of the least productive routes. The higher fare and express routing means it recovers far more of its costs than others. I haven't seen any recent data, but as of 2015, the farebox recovery for the 5A was something like 88%.

Also, the implicit deal the last time this came up was that WMATA would keep the 5A at least until the Silver Line opens.
 
zuckie13
Posts: 314
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:23 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:41 pm

DALMD80 wrote:
zuckie13 wrote:
DALMD80 wrote:
Another question about BWI, do aircraft EVER takeoff from 33L? I've spotted there several times and arrivals were on 33L/R but departures were on 28!


It's fairly uncommon - use of both main runways is always preferred - but does happen occasionally.

Generally the preferred configuration winds allowing is Land 33L, Depart 28.
2nd Choice is Land 10, Depart 15R

Once in a while, winds will force single runway ops - that's when its most likely to happen.

What about Land 15R?


Same as with Departing 33L, only if the wind (or I guess construction once in a while) forces it. I went up on the BWI trail to watch earlier this year one day when I head they were landing there. That day had strong wind out of around 200, so that was the only option. Too much crosswind for departures or landings on 10/28
 
User avatar
BWIAirport
Posts: 922
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:29 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:54 am

zuckie13 wrote:
DALMD80 wrote:
zuckie13 wrote:

It's fairly uncommon - use of both main runways is always preferred - but does happen occasionally.

Generally the preferred configuration winds allowing is Land 33L, Depart 28.
2nd Choice is Land 10, Depart 15R

Once in a while, winds will force single runway ops - that's when its most likely to happen.

What about Land 15R?


Same as with Departing 33L, only if the wind (or I guess construction once in a while) forces it. I went up on the BWI trail to watch earlier this year one day when I head they were landing there. That day had strong wind out of around 200, so that was the only option. Too much crosswind for departures or landings on 10/28

I landed on 15R a couple weeks ago for the first time ever. As zuckie13 said, winds have to really force it. I believe it is a lower level of instrumentation, but I could be wrong.
SWA, UAL, DAL, AWE, ASA, TRS, DLH, CLH, AFR, BAW, EIN, AAL | E190 DC94 CRJ2 B712 B733 B737 B738 B739 B744 B752 B753 B762 B77W A319 A320 A20N A321 A333 A343 A388 MD88
 
User avatar
atcsundevil
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 4299
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:26 am

USAirALB wrote:
It’s also my understanding that the Silver Line Express bus will be discontinued when Silver Line phase 2 opens next summer.

IIRC, Fairfax county does run buses to Dulles as well from Wiehle (or Vienna, I can’t remember).

It ain't gonna be open next summer. A year from now is being hopeful, but I think more realistically it'll be pushed to 2021 at the earliest. There are too many construction faults and safety issues to be remedied. MWAA is pretending like things are peachy and on schedule, but the WMATA has an extremely lengthy list of very valid concerns. It's setting up for a showdown in which Metro doesn't accept the line when MWAA believes it is ready to be turned over.

But yes, the bus will of course be discontinued whenever phase two is opened.
 
zuckie13
Posts: 314
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:23 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:34 pm

BWIAirport wrote:
zuckie13 wrote:
DALMD80 wrote:
What about Land 15R?


Same as with Departing 33L, only if the wind (or I guess construction once in a while) forces it. I went up on the BWI trail to watch earlier this year one day when I head they were landing there. That day had strong wind out of around 200, so that was the only option. Too much crosswind for departures or landings on 10/28

I landed on 15R a couple weeks ago for the first time ever. As zuckie13 said, winds have to really force it. I believe it is a lower level of instrumentation, but I could be wrong.


Yeah, 10 is up to CAT III, 33L is up to CAT II, everything else is CAT I only.
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2333
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:43 pm

blockski wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
blockski wrote:

Yes, that's the plan.

This service replaced the old Washington Flyer coach bus service from West Falls Church to IAD; when they replaced it, they're using the same buses as they use for parking shuttle operations, so I'd imagine the buses will be re-used in that context.

It's not clear what will happen to the 5A bus; WMATA has tried to cut it in the past, and will likely do so again once the Silver Line is operational. I think there's still a case for bus service to Dulles outside of Metrorail operating hours, but that's going to be a heavy lift.

Fairfax Connector does operate two routes to IAD, the 981 and 981; both go from the end of the Silver Line to the airport; the 983 also goes to the Udvar-Hazy Center.

https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/connector ... 15_web.pdf

Fairfax Connector will undoubtedly do a large bus network shift once the new Metro stations open; right now many routes feed into the end of the Silver Line at Wiehle Ave; and those will certainly shift. I would love to see a good bus connection between the main Dulles terminal area and the Udvar-Hazy Center. I know the airport has been reluctant to offer that as they don't want to encourage remote parking at the museum.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the 5A (or the BWI B30 bus, for that matter) announced as one of the routes proposed to be cut as part of the 9 "least productive bus routes" as part of the recently announced FY 2021 budget.


I would! The 5A is certianly not one of the least productive routes. The higher fare and express routing means it recovers far more of its costs than others. I haven't seen any recent data, but as of 2015, the farebox recovery for the 5A was something like 88%.

Also, the implicit deal the last time this came up was that WMATA would keep the 5A at least until the Silver Line opens.

I just stepped off the 5A around an hour ago and there were only about 10 or so people on board. I have never seen it so empty. A good number of them got off at the stop before IAD (Aviation Road? Navigator Road?). We took a really weird route today. We got off of the Dulles Toll Road, drove down Sunrise Valley Drive in Herndon for about 5 miles, and then got back on the toll road before arriving at airport property. Don't know the reasoning of the detour and as to why we didn't stay on the toll road the entire time.

The biggest pain of 5A to me is the amount of people who don't have enough money on their SmartTrip card and then realize they can't get change back so they take the time to add money to their card first. They should really make it card only like they do on Metro Extra lines.
atcsundevil wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
It’s also my understanding that the Silver Line Express bus will be discontinued when Silver Line phase 2 opens next summer.

IIRC, Fairfax county does run buses to Dulles as well from Wiehle (or Vienna, I can’t remember).

It ain't gonna be open next summer. A year from now is being hopeful, but I think more realistically it'll be pushed to 2021 at the earliest. There are too many construction faults and safety issues to be remedied. MWAA is pretending like things are peachy and on schedule, but the WMATA has an extremely lengthy list of very valid concerns. It's setting up for a showdown in which Metro doesn't accept the line when MWAA believes it is ready to be turned over.

But yes, the bus will of course be discontinued whenever phase two is opened.

I am being optimistic. I know it likely won't but mentally I am hoping wishful thinking will help. It's such a hot mess. You think that the second phase would have gone so much smoother than Phase 1 due to the challenges associated with the first phase (construction over the Beltway, tunneling and building through Tysons, etc). I do wonder if the outcome would have been different if WMATA was actually managing the construction of the line.

I have said this before on here, but I really can't see the line being successful past IAD until Loudon develops more. I know, I know that the area is rapidly growing and urbanizing, but it isn't at the point of urbanization IMO to be able to support a high-capacity rapid transit system.
RJ85, F70, E135, E140, E145, E70, E75, E90, CR2, CR7, CR9, 717, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 744ER, 752, 753, 762, 772, 77E, 77W, 789, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343, 359, 388
 
User avatar
atcsundevil
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 4299
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:55 pm

USAirALB wrote:
I am being optimistic. I know it likely won't but mentally I am hoping wishful thinking will help. It's such a hot mess. You think that the second phase would have gone so much smoother than Phase 1 due to the challenges associated with the first phase (construction over the Beltway, tunneling and building through Tysons, etc). I do wonder if the outcome would have been different if WMATA was actually managing the construction of the line.

I have said this before on here, but I really can't see the line being successful past IAD until Loudon develops more. I know, I know that the area is rapidly growing and urbanizing, but it isn't at the point of urbanization IMO to be able to support a high-capacity rapid transit system.

It really is astounding how much of a mess it's been. I realize that phase one was quite delayed, but yes, you'd think they would have had lessons learned to allow for a smoother phase two. Instead, there have been so many quality control issues (which is flat out unacceptable), there are signaling issues, there are foundational issues with parking decks.. I understand that this is a major project, but for something that's 100% above ground, it should have made for a relatively straightforward build.

I think the Loudoun stations will actually be quite successful. Maybe not initially, but they will be in the medium to long term. I live in Ashburn, and I have several coworkers and friends who are already moving close to the new stations in anticipation of it opening. I believe that it was good foresight to go ahead and construct these stations, even if it takes a few years to mature. Very little infrastructure around here is constructed with the future in mind — be it highways, secondary roads, schools, public transport, etc. — so it's nice that they might have actually thought ahead a little on this one. It theoretically wouldn't take much more to extend the line to Leesburg in the future, should there be a demand for it. Although I'm sure it'll still take a decade and another two billion dollars to do it!
 
User avatar
msp747
Posts: 479
Joined: Sat May 29, 2010 6:42 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:42 pm

USAirALB wrote:
blockski wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised to see the 5A (or the BWI B30 bus, for that matter) announced as one of the routes proposed to be cut as part of the 9 "least productive bus routes" as part of the recently announced FY 2021 budget.


I would! The 5A is certianly not one of the least productive routes. The higher fare and express routing means it recovers far more of its costs than others. I haven't seen any recent data, but as of 2015, the farebox recovery for the 5A was something like 88%.

Also, the implicit deal the last time this came up was that WMATA would keep the 5A at least until the Silver Line opens.

I just stepped off the 5A around an hour ago and there were only about 10 or so people on board. I have never seen it so empty. A good number of them got off at the stop before IAD (Aviation Road? Navigator Road?). We took a really weird route today. We got off of the Dulles Toll Road, drove down Sunrise Valley Drive in Herndon for about 5 miles, and then got back on the toll road before arriving at airport property. Don't know the reasoning of the detour and as to why we didn't stay on the toll road the entire time.

The biggest pain of 5A to me is the amount of people who don't have enough money on their SmartTrip card and then realize they can't get change back so they take the time to add money to their card first. They should really make it card only like they do on Metro Extra lines.
atcsundevil wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
It’s also my understanding that the Silver Line Express bus will be discontinued when Silver Line phase 2 opens next summer.

IIRC, Fairfax county does run buses to Dulles as well from Wiehle (or Vienna, I can’t remember).

It ain't gonna be open next summer. A year from now is being hopeful, but I think more realistically it'll be pushed to 2021 at the earliest. There are too many construction faults and safety issues to be remedied. MWAA is pretending like things are peachy and on schedule, but the WMATA has an extremely lengthy list of very valid concerns. It's setting up for a showdown in which Metro doesn't accept the line when MWAA believes it is ready to be turned over.

But yes, the bus will of course be discontinued whenever phase two is opened.

I am being optimistic. I know it likely won't but mentally I am hoping wishful thinking will help. It's such a hot mess. You think that the second phase would have gone so much smoother than Phase 1 due to the challenges associated with the first phase (construction over the Beltway, tunneling and building through Tysons, etc). I do wonder if the outcome would have been different if WMATA was actually managing the construction of the line.

I have said this before on here, but I really can't see the line being successful past IAD until Loudon develops more. I know, I know that the area is rapidly growing and urbanizing, but it isn't at the point of urbanization IMO to be able to support a high-capacity rapid transit system.

Spend a morning at the Dulles North Transit Center in Loudoun County and I think you'd see why those stations will be fine. Finding parking at DNTC (which is next door to the new Loudoun Gateway station) is often a nightmare, with people creating their own parking spots or parking on the road by 8:00a. A majority of these riders will migrate to Metro when it opens. The Ashburn station will be the stop for many people from Leesburg. I think the current Loudoun County Transit bus stop at the future Ashburn Station would be much busier if the schedule was better (I use DNTC because the schedule is far superior).
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2333
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:03 pm

msp747 wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
blockski wrote:

I would! The 5A is certianly not one of the least productive routes. The higher fare and express routing means it recovers far more of its costs than others. I haven't seen any recent data, but as of 2015, the farebox recovery for the 5A was something like 88%.

Also, the implicit deal the last time this came up was that WMATA would keep the 5A at least until the Silver Line opens.

I just stepped off the 5A around an hour ago and there were only about 10 or so people on board. I have never seen it so empty. A good number of them got off at the stop before IAD (Aviation Road? Navigator Road?). We took a really weird route today. We got off of the Dulles Toll Road, drove down Sunrise Valley Drive in Herndon for about 5 miles, and then got back on the toll road before arriving at airport property. Don't know the reasoning of the detour and as to why we didn't stay on the toll road the entire time.

The biggest pain of 5A to me is the amount of people who don't have enough money on their SmartTrip card and then realize they can't get change back so they take the time to add money to their card first. They should really make it card only like they do on Metro Extra lines.
atcsundevil wrote:
It ain't gonna be open next summer. A year from now is being hopeful, but I think more realistically it'll be pushed to 2021 at the earliest. There are too many construction faults and safety issues to be remedied. MWAA is pretending like things are peachy and on schedule, but the WMATA has an extremely lengthy list of very valid concerns. It's setting up for a showdown in which Metro doesn't accept the line when MWAA believes it is ready to be turned over.

But yes, the bus will of course be discontinued whenever phase two is opened.

I am being optimistic. I know it likely won't but mentally I am hoping wishful thinking will help. It's such a hot mess. You think that the second phase would have gone so much smoother than Phase 1 due to the challenges associated with the first phase (construction over the Beltway, tunneling and building through Tysons, etc). I do wonder if the outcome would have been different if WMATA was actually managing the construction of the line.

I have said this before on here, but I really can't see the line being successful past IAD until Loudon develops more. I know, I know that the area is rapidly growing and urbanizing, but it isn't at the point of urbanization IMO to be able to support a high-capacity rapid transit system.

Spend a morning at the Dulles North Transit Center in Loudoun County and I think you'd see why those stations will be fine. Finding parking at DNTC (which is next door to the new Loudoun Gateway station) is often a nightmare, with people creating their own parking spots or parking on the road by 8:00a. A majority of these riders will migrate to Metro when it opens. The Ashburn station will be the stop for many people from Leesburg. I think the current Loudoun County Transit bus stop at the future Ashburn Station would be much busier if the schedule was better (I use DNTC because the schedule is far superior).

I’m sure it’ll be fine on the weekdays, but I guess my question is can you convince people from Loudon County to take Metro to Tyson’s or DC on the weekends?
RJ85, F70, E135, E140, E145, E70, E75, E90, CR2, CR7, CR9, 717, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 744ER, 752, 753, 762, 772, 77E, 77W, 789, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343, 359, 388
 
jhb223
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:26 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:11 am

The BWI contingent might be happy to hear that BA brought in a 773 tonight instead of the usual 772/788. Not sure if it’s happened before, but it’s a welcome sight for sure.
 
User avatar
BWIAirport
Posts: 922
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:29 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:03 am

jhb223 wrote:
The BWI contingent might be happy to hear that BA brought in a 773 tonight instead of the usual 772/788. Not sure if it’s happened before, but it’s a welcome sight for sure.

Quite honestly might be the first 77W BWI has ever seen.
SWA, UAL, DAL, AWE, ASA, TRS, DLH, CLH, AFR, BAW, EIN, AAL | E190 DC94 CRJ2 B712 B733 B737 B738 B739 B744 B752 B753 B762 B77W A319 A320 A20N A321 A333 A343 A388 MD88
 
DCA350
Posts: 163
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 7:27 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:11 am

BWIAirport wrote:
jhb223 wrote:
The BWI contingent might be happy to hear that BA brought in a 773 tonight instead of the usual 772/788. Not sure if it’s happened before, but it’s a welcome sight for sure.

Quite honestly might be the first 77W BWI has ever seen.


About 10 years ago I flew into BWI and saw an Emirates 777W parked over by the Cargo terminal. I assumed it was a VIP flight, but as far as regular service I'm sure this is the first.
 
jhb223
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:26 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Nov 17, 2019 4:05 pm

DCA350 wrote:
BWIAirport wrote:
jhb223 wrote:
The BWI contingent might be happy to hear that BA brought in a 773 tonight instead of the usual 772/788. Not sure if it’s happened before, but it’s a welcome sight for sure.

Quite honestly might be the first 77W BWI has ever seen.


About 10 years ago I flew into BWI and saw an Emirates 777W parked over by the Cargo terminal. I assumed it was a VIP flight, but as far as regular service I'm sure this is the first.


Could have been a diversion, BWI gets its fair share of them from the heavy hitters up I-95 (and Dulles). I’m sure a few 77Ws have swung by when conditions in NYC/PHL/BOS/IAD weren’t suitable. The int’l heavies always look out of place on the cargo ramp, even when they’re cargo planes! BA is back to the 772 tonight, I wouldn’t expect any future upgauges unless BA has no choice.
 
DALMD80
Posts: 501
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:25 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:22 pm

Oh wow! That's interesting. Are we on the 772 for the season or what?
2 things- Wear a mask, and vote. It's that simple.
 
Mainland
Posts: 277
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 3:17 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:47 am

DALMD80 wrote:
Oh wow! That's interesting. Are we on the 772 for the season or what?


Due to the ongoing 787 engine issues, BA has pushed a 777 onto the BWI route until early January. It's intended to be the same frame (G-VIIP) everyday. VIIP didn't take on another route on Saturday - so it looks like the 773 was just a one off fill-in.
You don't need a passport to know what state you're in...
 
bryanSE785
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:29 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:06 am

DCA350 wrote:
BWIAirport wrote:
jhb223 wrote:
The BWI contingent might be happy to hear that BA brought in a 773 tonight instead of the usual 772/788. Not sure if it’s happened before, but it’s a welcome sight for sure.

Quite honestly might be the first 77W BWI has ever seen.


About 10 years ago I flew into BWI and saw an Emirates 777W parked over by the Cargo terminal. I assumed it was a VIP flight, but as far as regular service I'm sure this is the first.


Over the summer we had a Qatar 77W in the one world livery divert from IAD
 
LoudounHound
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:43 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:32 pm

Anyone else surprised by the UA/NH decision to move both NRT flights to HND? Does this provide an opening for a possible JL return to IAD?
 
jplatts
Posts: 3713
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:52 pm

LoudounHound wrote:
Anyone else surprised by the UA/NH decision to move both NRT flights to HND? Does this provide an opening for a possible JL return to IAD?


I agree that JL returning to IAD is a possibility with (a) JL's partner AA having a FF base in the DC market due to AA's DCA hub, (b) Tokyo and Washington, DC both being capital cities, (c) IB in the oneworld alliance resuming IAD-MAD nonstop service in March 2020, and (d) IAD already being served by BA, CX, and QR in the oneworld alliance.
 
izbtmnhd
Posts: 944
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:15 pm

LoudounHound wrote:
Anyone else surprised by the UA/NH decision to move both NRT flights to HND? Does this provide an opening for a possible JL return to IAD?


Not really surprised, I wish it would have been done years ago!

As for adding a daily JL from IAD, I think 3x daily IAD-TYO would struggle especially if JL had to start the service from NRT. A decent recession on either side of the Pacific would likely shake out a carrier with JL most likely to be the loser.

Also, AA's presence at IAD could be characterized as minimal. Until the Silver Line is built out, it's not super easy to get from AA's DCA hub to IAD either.
 
blockski
Posts: 690
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:30 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:22 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
LoudounHound wrote:
Anyone else surprised by the UA/NH decision to move both NRT flights to HND? Does this provide an opening for a possible JL return to IAD?


Not really surprised, I wish it would have been done years ago!

As for adding a daily JL from IAD, I think 3x daily IAD-TYO would struggle especially if JL had to start the service from NRT. A decent recession on either side of the Pacific would likely shake out a carrier with JL most likely to be the loser.

Also, AA's presence at IAD could be characterized as minimal. Until the Silver Line is built out, it's not super easy to get from AA's DCA hub to IAD either.


The connection to DCA isn't relevant; you wouldn't start this route to get cross-hub feed from DCA, you'd do it to serve the DC market and tap into the AA elites in DC...
 
bkflyguy
Posts: 232
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:25 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:07 pm

washingtonflyer wrote:
bkflyguy wrote:
Blimpie wrote:

and, WMATA still has the green line extension to BWI on their long term plan. I doubt I will live to see it, but it is still on their CTP.


What Maryland should do (although this requires working with Amtrak to increase track capacity and a new tunnel that is currently in the planning stages) is run a MARC train shuttle between Union Station BWI and Baltimore (with a stop in Silver Spring), This train should depart every 20 minutes during the day to provide fast service from DC and Baltimore to BWI. BWI should also build an automated train from the train stations, long term and daily parking to the terminal, which I think is part of a Long-Term Master Plan (i.e. over 20 years away).


Having a train stop in Silver Spring means following trackage that is owned by CSX, not Amtrak. That line then proceeds northwest towards Gaithersburg and Point of Rocks. You would have to build an entire line north and east towards Laurel and then the Camden line if you wanted to tie into the BWI trackage.

This proposition simply won't happen. You're more likely to see dedicated bus shuttle service from DC before you see billions of dollars spent on trackage from Silver Spring.


You're right. For some reason, I thought the split occurred after SS. Still, a BWI shuttle a'al the Gatwick Shuttle would be fantastic. But it won't happen.
 
izbtmnhd
Posts: 944
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:40 pm

blockski wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:
LoudounHound wrote:
Anyone else surprised by the UA/NH decision to move both NRT flights to HND? Does this provide an opening for a possible JL return to IAD?


Not really surprised, I wish it would have been done years ago!

As for adding a daily JL from IAD, I think 3x daily IAD-TYO would struggle especially if JL had to start the service from NRT. A decent recession on either side of the Pacific would likely shake out a carrier with JL most likely to be the loser.

Also, AA's presence at IAD could be characterized as minimal. Until the Silver Line is built out, it's not super easy to get from AA's DCA hub to IAD either.


The connection to DCA isn't relevant; you wouldn't start this route to get cross-hub feed from DCA, you'd do it to serve the DC market and tap into the AA elites in DC...


Agree completely. I misread jplatts post.
 
User avatar
BWIAirport
Posts: 922
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:29 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:15 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
LoudounHound wrote:
Anyone else surprised by the UA/NH decision to move both NRT flights to HND? Does this provide an opening for a possible JL return to IAD?


Not really surprised, I wish it would have been done years ago!

As for adding a daily JL from IAD, I think 3x daily IAD-TYO would struggle especially if JL had to start the service from NRT. A decent recession on either side of the Pacific would likely shake out a carrier with JL most likely to be the loser.

Also, AA's presence at IAD could be characterized as minimal. Until the Silver Line is built out, it's not super easy to get from AA's DCA hub to IAD either.

I think as far as JL adding another US East Coast station goes, PHL would be a far more attractive option than any DC/Balt airport.
SWA, UAL, DAL, AWE, ASA, TRS, DLH, CLH, AFR, BAW, EIN, AAL | E190 DC94 CRJ2 B712 B733 B737 B738 B739 B744 B752 B753 B762 B77W A319 A320 A20N A321 A333 A343 A388 MD88
 
jplatts
Posts: 3713
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:58 pm

There is an article titled "Southwest VP says airline will set a new record for flights out of BWI this summer" on the Baltimore Business Journal's web site, which can be found at https://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore/news/2019/11/20/southwest-vp-says-airline-will-set-a-new-record.html.

The article said the following regarding further expansion by WN at BWI:
In his presentation to the BWI Business Partnership Wednesday at the Westin Baltimore Washington Airport hotel, Goldberg hinted at even more new routes to come.

"The potential for the future is really exciting in Baltimore," he said, adding that there are "lots of opportunities for us to connect the dots from Baltimore south and hopefully north, eventually, as well."
 
jplatts
Posts: 3713
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:32 pm

Here are the Q1 2019 PDEW's out of WAS to the top contiguous U.S. destinations served by WN that aren't currently served nonstop from BWI, DCA, or IAD:
WAS-SNA - 166
WAS-TUS - 163
WAS-ELP - 117
WAS-RNO - 100
WAS-ONT - 96
WAS-TUL - 71
WAS-BOI - 68
WAS-GEG - 54
WAS-ICT - 50
WAS-BUR - 32

Here are the Q1 2019 PDEW's out of BWI to the top domestic destinations in the contiguous U.S. with WN service that WN doesn't currently serve nonstop from BWI:
BWI-SFO - 289
BWI-PDX - 72
BWI-TUS - 54
BWI-SNA - 48
BWI-ELP - 41
BWI-ONT - 38
BWI-OMA - 35
BWI-RNO - 35
BWI-LIT - 27

While WN already has nonstop service out of BWI to most of the domestic destinations that it will ever serve nonstop from BWI, there are still a few more nonstop routes such as BWI-ELP, BWI-RNO, BWI-SFO, and BWI-TUS that could be added by WN out of BWI.

WN could also extend BWI-SEA nonstop service to year-round since BWI-SEA is one of the top routes that WN doesn't serve nonstop on a year-round basis.
 
Aeroflot001
Posts: 366
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:43 am

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:45 pm

UA launched IAD-RSW back on October 28.
My family lives in Herndon which is only 10 minutes if that from IAD so very convenient.

I am flying the route for Thanksgiving Weekend - Nov 28 returning Monday the 2nd.
Round trip fare for only $157 which is a great deal given the holiday weekend.
 
JHCRJ700
Posts: 238
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:51 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Dec 07, 2019 2:46 pm

Mainland wrote:
DALMD80 wrote:
Oh wow! That's interesting. Are we on the 772 for the season or what?


Due to the ongoing 787 engine issues, BA has pushed a 777 onto the BWI route until early January. It's intended to be the same frame (G-VIIP) everyday. VIIP didn't take on another route on Saturday - so it looks like the 773 was just a one off fill-in.



They had another 77W operate the flight this week. Pretty awesome. I'm curious how full these 777 flights are in general. The 77W in particular is a huge upgrade in capacity over the 787s
It's the power and the glory, It's a war in paradise, A Cinderella story, On a tumble of the dice
 
User avatar
BWIAirport
Posts: 922
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:29 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:08 pm

JHCRJ700 wrote:
Mainland wrote:
DALMD80 wrote:
Oh wow! That's interesting. Are we on the 772 for the season or what?


Due to the ongoing 787 engine issues, BA has pushed a 777 onto the BWI route until early January. It's intended to be the same frame (G-VIIP) everyday. VIIP didn't take on another route on Saturday - so it looks like the 773 was just a one off fill-in.



They had another 77W operate the flight this week. Pretty awesome. I'm curious how full these 777 flights are in general. The 77W in particular is a huge upgrade in capacity over the 787s

Whenever I compare ticket prices between IAD/BWI-LHR they're usually very similar. AFAIK the loads on the flights are usually average, not full but certainly not empty.
SWA, UAL, DAL, AWE, ASA, TRS, DLH, CLH, AFR, BAW, EIN, AAL | E190 DC94 CRJ2 B712 B733 B737 B738 B739 B744 B752 B753 B762 B77W A319 A320 A20N A321 A333 A343 A388 MD88
 
washingtonflyer
Posts: 1609
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:45 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:06 pm

WMATAs list of fare requests and schedule changes is out for the upcoming year. 5A (L'Enfant-Rosslyn-Dulles) is on the chop block with the Silver line extension as the stated reason for proposed termination.
 
capitalflyer
Posts: 629
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:43 am

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:18 pm

jplatts wrote:
Here are the Q1 2019 PDEW's out of WAS to the top contiguous U.S. destinations served by WN that aren't currently served nonstop from BWI, DCA, or IAD:
WAS-SNA - 166
WAS-TUS - 163
WAS-ELP - 117
WAS-RNO - 100
WAS-ONT - 96
WAS-TUL - 71
WAS-BOI - 68
WAS-GEG - 54
WAS-ICT - 50
WAS-BUR - 32

Here are the Q1 2019 PDEW's out of BWI to the top domestic destinations in the contiguous U.S. with WN service that WN doesn't currently serve nonstop from BWI:
BWI-SFO - 289
BWI-PDX - 72
BWI-TUS - 54
BWI-SNA - 48
BWI-ELP - 41
BWI-ONT - 38
BWI-OMA - 35
BWI-RNO - 35
BWI-LIT - 27

While WN already has nonstop service out of BWI to most of the domestic destinations that it will ever serve nonstop from BWI, there are still a few more nonstop routes such as BWI-ELP, BWI-RNO, BWI-SFO, and BWI-TUS that could be added by WN out of BWI.

WN could also extend BWI-SEA nonstop service to year-round since BWI-SEA is one of the top routes that WN doesn't serve nonstop on a year-round basis.


All of these are outside perimeter, so you won't be seeing them at DCA ever. SFO I could see from either IAD or BWI, as well as perhaps TUS. ELP and RNO no way, can't fill a plane. SNA from IAD would be interesting, going up against UA, AA, and AS to LAX. Overall it looks like WN has everywhere pretty well covered from WAS.
 
IADCA
Posts: 2191
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:24 am

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:42 pm

capitalflyer wrote:
jplatts wrote:
Here are the Q1 2019 PDEW's out of WAS to the top contiguous U.S. destinations served by WN that aren't currently served nonstop from BWI, DCA, or IAD:
WAS-SNA - 166
WAS-TUS - 163
WAS-ELP - 117
WAS-RNO - 100
WAS-ONT - 96
WAS-TUL - 71
WAS-BOI - 68
WAS-GEG - 54
WAS-ICT - 50
WAS-BUR - 32

Here are the Q1 2019 PDEW's out of BWI to the top domestic destinations in the contiguous U.S. with WN service that WN doesn't currently serve nonstop from BWI:
BWI-SFO - 289
BWI-PDX - 72
BWI-TUS - 54
BWI-SNA - 48
BWI-ELP - 41
BWI-ONT - 38
BWI-OMA - 35
BWI-RNO - 35
BWI-LIT - 27

While WN already has nonstop service out of BWI to most of the domestic destinations that it will ever serve nonstop from BWI, there are still a few more nonstop routes such as BWI-ELP, BWI-RNO, BWI-SFO, and BWI-TUS that could be added by WN out of BWI.

WN could also extend BWI-SEA nonstop service to year-round since BWI-SEA is one of the top routes that WN doesn't serve nonstop on a year-round basis.


All of these are outside perimeter, so you won't be seeing them at DCA ever. SFO I could see from either IAD or BWI, as well as perhaps TUS. ELP and RNO no way, can't fill a plane. SNA from IAD would be interesting, going up against UA, AA, and AS to LAX. Overall it looks like WN has everywhere pretty well covered from WAS.


I can't see WN doing SFO from IAD - they'd be up against 7x daily from UA (including 2 widebodies) and 2x from AS. If 5 daily to BWI on UA alone is sufficient to keep WN out at what is a huge WN station on the WAS end, I can't see at all.
 
User avatar
BWIAirport
Posts: 922
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:29 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:05 pm

BWI's social media confirms WN is adding nonstop BWI-TUL/PNS. Daily starting June 7.
SWA, UAL, DAL, AWE, ASA, TRS, DLH, CLH, AFR, BAW, EIN, AAL | E190 DC94 CRJ2 B712 B733 B737 B738 B739 B744 B752 B753 B762 B77W A319 A320 A20N A321 A333 A343 A388 MD88
 
LoudounHound
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:43 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:28 pm

UA adding Madison, WI (MSN) twice daily, year round:
https://madison.com/wsj/business/united ... 9021d.html
 
blockski
Posts: 690
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:30 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:22 pm

LoudounHound wrote:
UA adding Madison, WI (MSN) twice daily, year round:
https://madison.com/wsj/business/united ... 9021d.html


Nice! Good add for IAD. Flights to IAD timed to hit UA's two biggest banks at Noon and 5-6pm.

Delta is the only other carrier to fly non-stop from MSN to the DC area, with one daily DCA flight (which I believe is a slot exemption specific to the airport) - I want to say this was maybe 2x or 3x daily in the past?
 
jplatts
Posts: 3713
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:53 pm

blockski wrote:
LoudounHound wrote:
UA adding Madison, WI (MSN) twice daily, year round:
https://madison.com/wsj/business/united ... 9021d.html


Nice! Good add for IAD. Flights to IAD timed to hit UA's two biggest banks at Noon and 5-6pm.


I expected UA to add IAD-MSN nonstop service as there is government travel between IAD and MSN with Madison being the capital city of Wisconsin.
 
maps4ltd
Posts: 552
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 4:48 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:10 pm

Also IAD-BGR according to The Points Guy. 2x daily ERJ145.
Delta Gold Medallion
 
LoudounHound
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:43 pm

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Dec 18, 2019 2:13 pm

MWAA Board meeting today. Scanning the minutes from last month's meeting (https://www.mwaa.com/sites/default/file ... mittee.pdf), the CPE at IAD continues to fall. The Authority had budgeted for a 2019 CPE of $16.98, but ended up with $14.93. They're now budgeting for a 2020 CPE of $14.90. That's pretty remarkable, considering it was at $26.55 in 2014. That should overjoy the folks at United. The minutes also indicate that UA's growth at IAD is being restrained somewhat by the 737MAX grounding.

Previously, the Board had indicated that it wouldn't get serious about a Concourse C/D replacement until passenger counts exceeded 30 million annually. That could happen sooner than many think.
 
capitalflyer
Posts: 629
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:43 am

Re: DC/VA/MD Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Dec 18, 2019 5:15 pm

Back awhile ago I seem to recall talk that UA would add an additional bank at some point at IAD while shifting connecting traffic from EWR. It seems the last few OAG releases have shown the pace of this shift to have picked up pretty good. Are we close to the point that a new bank would be established?
  • 1
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8
  • 9
  • 10

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 738Pilot, AAmericanguy, AH45, airplaneboy, Baidu [Spider], Bavd, CitX92, dbo861, EightyFour, Google Adsense [Bot], hongkongflyer, Ishrion, J2flyer, jbs2886, jetKIWI, KPDX, marcelh, migair54, Noshow, p201055r, QF744ER, RollerRB211, SRQfoxtrot, TMfcs, trinidadeG, ua900, ZK-NBT and 250 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos