777PHX
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:41 am

BA daily 744 plus the Condor 763 in the summer.
 
RobertPhoenix
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:29 pm

I was at Scottsdale Airpark yesterday, and saw an aircraft take off that looked very much like a YAK 40. Is it possible that it really was that, and if not, what could it be. (Small tri-jet with three tiny engines and about 9 windows down the side of the plane)

Looking it up on Wikipedia it looked just like one, but could anyone be still flying a plane that requires a crew of three ! And has very old Russian engines.?
 
777PHX
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:43 pm

It was a Dassault Falcon - a pretty common high-end business jet.
 
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kearnet
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:20 am

Yesterday while I was waiting for my roommate who was at a dentist appointment, I did some spotting at IWA and saw something pretty cool; A school bus full of elementary kids being driven around on the ramp. I assume it was an airport personal who was doing the driving, and in communication with ground.

Alas there wasn't anything very exciting going on other then a V22 getting what looked like lite maintenance and a G4 A320 takeoff.
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chrisair
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:49 am

kearnet wrote:
One thing I did find odd is that I noticed on both the T4 and T3 sky train platforms were signs stating "Keep your event programs in your carry on", any idea what that is about?


Just realized this never got answered.

Some programs use a metallic ink in the cover designs and it causes all sorts of hell to break loose when the baggage scanners downstairs see it. That sign first came out during the Super Bowl and Pro Bowl a few years ago. We had the same warning inside the media center when they gave us the programs.

I guess the scanners at the gates don't read the ink the same way as the ones downstairs.

It's similar to the signs that come out around NASCAR that say please don't check engines, tires or car parts on the plane.
 
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kearnet
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:47 am

chrisair wrote:
kearnet wrote:
One thing I did find odd is that I noticed on both the T4 and T3 sky train platforms were signs stating "Keep your event programs in your carry on", any idea what that is about?


Just realized this never got answered.

Some programs use a metallic ink in the cover designs and it causes all sorts of hell to break loose when the baggage scanners downstairs see it. That sign first came out during the Super Bowl and Pro Bowl a few years ago. We had the same warning inside the media center when they gave us the programs.

I guess the scanners at the gates don't read the ink the same way as the ones downstairs.

It's similar to the signs that come out around NASCAR that say please don't check engines, tires or car parts on the plane.


Ahhh, thank you! I'm guessing it’s more so that downstairs they’d have to do a forced inspections and having to open possibly thousands of extra checked bags above their normal volume they usually process so it’s just easier to have pax take them through the pax checkpoints where they'll be easier to access and assess.
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alasizon
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:50 pm

kearnet wrote:
chrisair wrote:
kearnet wrote:
One thing I did find odd is that I noticed on both the T4 and T3 sky train platforms were signs stating "Keep your event programs in your carry on", any idea what that is about?


Just realized this never got answered.

Some programs use a metallic ink in the cover designs and it causes all sorts of hell to break loose when the baggage scanners downstairs see it. That sign first came out during the Super Bowl and Pro Bowl a few years ago. We had the same warning inside the media center when they gave us the programs.

I guess the scanners at the gates don't read the ink the same way as the ones downstairs.

It's similar to the signs that come out around NASCAR that say please don't check engines, tires or car parts on the plane.


Ahhh, thank you! I'm guessing it’s more so that downstairs they’d have to do a forced inspections and having to open possibly thousands of extra checked bags above their normal volume they usually process so it’s just easier to have pax take them through the pax checkpoints where they'll be easier to access and assess.


That's exactly the reason. The EDS scanners can't see through them and TSA is forced to do a manual check on each bag which can seriously delay the checked bag stream to the point that it backs up into the ticket counter belts.
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Darenriley
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:33 pm

With American announcing that their PHX-LHR is going year-round, I wonder if this also signals that BA may be retiring their 747 from PHX-LHR this fall and moving to a smaller plane?
 
travaz
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:54 am

Darenriley wrote:
With American announcing that their PHX-LHR is going year-round, I wonder if this also signals that BA may be retiring their 747 from PHX-LHR this fall and moving to a smaller plane?


I would hope BA moves to a 787-9.
 
alasizon
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:52 am

travaz wrote:
Darenriley wrote:
With American announcing that their PHX-LHR is going year-round, I wonder if this also signals that BA may be retiring their 747 from PHX-LHR this fall and moving to a smaller plane?


I would hope BA moves to a 787-9.


I believe the final plan is for them to be a 772 purely for cargo volume purposes. I wouldn't put it past them though to run a 789 during the slower season since AA can still supply that same cargo volume now.
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travaz
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:08 am

There are some really good fares on the AA flights to LHR 588 RT in Basic econ and 1400 for Premium Econ RT early spring and october
 
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cathay747
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:10 pm

alasizon wrote:
travaz wrote:
Darenriley wrote:
With American announcing that their PHX-LHR is going year-round, I wonder if this also signals that BA may be retiring their 747 from PHX-LHR this fall and moving to a smaller plane?


I would hope BA moves to a 787-9.


I believe the final plan is for them to be a 772 purely for cargo volume purposes. I wouldn't put it past them though to run a 789 during the slower season since AA can still supply that same cargo volume now.


I would imagine a 772 as well in this config (per SeatGuru):

Boeing 777-200 (772) Three Class Layout 1
Seats:48 Club World|203 World Traveller|24 World Traveller Plus

...that being about as close to the 744 config (total seats, and with only 4 less J seats), but maybe also these config's. (interchangeably depending on the day/demand):

Boeing 777-200 (772) Three Class Layout 2
Seats:40 Club World|219 World Traveller|24 World Traveller Plus

Boeing 777-200 (772) Three Class Layout 3
Seats:32 Club World|252 World Traveller|52 World Traveller Plus

Given the lack of demand/need for F out of here (or so it seems), and the drastically lower economy capacity, I'm not seeing a 789 being the replacement, whenever it happens:

Boeing 787-9 (789)
Seats:42 Club World|8 First|127 World Traveller|39 World Traveller Plus
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travaz
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:01 pm

cathay747 wrote:
alasizon wrote:
travaz wrote:

I would hope BA moves to a 787-9.


I believe the final plan is for them to be a 772 purely for cargo volume purposes. I wouldn't put it past them though to run a 789 during the slower season since AA can still supply that same cargo volume now.


I would imagine a 772 as well in this config (per SeatGuru):

Boeing 777-200 (772) Three Class Layout 1
Seats:48 Club World|203 World Traveller|24 World Traveller Plus

...that being about as close to the 744 config (total seats, and with only 4 less J seats), but maybe also these config's. (interchangeably depending on the day/demand):

Boeing 777-200 (772) Three Class Layout 2
Seats:40 Club World|219 World Traveller|24 World Traveller Plus

Boeing 777-200 (772) Three Class Layout 3
Seats:32 Club World|252 World Traveller|52 World Traveller Plus

Given the lack of demand/need for F out of here (or so it seems), and the drastically lower economy capacity, I'm not seeing a 789 being the replacement, whenever it happens:

Boeing 787-9 (789)
Seats:42 Club World|8 First|127 World Traveller|39 World Traveller Plus

Thanks for the info. I think you are correct in the change being a 772. I was just hoping to see a BA 787
 
SQ317
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:02 pm

Given BA's new A350s won't have First, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see them replacing the 747 on mid-J routes w/ low F demand such as this. After all, that is what BA are buying them to replace - see https://www.ausbt.com.au/british-airway ... -1000-jets
 
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cathay747
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:01 pm

SQ317 wrote:
Given BA's new A350s won't have First, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see them replacing the 747 on mid-J routes w/ low F demand such as this. After all, that is what BA are buying them to replace - see https://www.ausbt.com.au/british-airway ... -1000-jets


Hmmmm...yes, good point. I forgot about those. Well, we'll just have to wait and see. This is all informed speculation for now. BA may surprise us. Hell, it's even possible, if AA had the metal to spare, that they turn the route over to all-AA metal.
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alasizon
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:47 pm

SQ317 wrote:
Given BA's new A350s won't have First, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see them replacing the 747 on mid-J routes w/ low F demand such as this. After all, that is what BA are buying them to replace - see https://www.ausbt.com.au/british-airway ... -1000-jets

The A350 may be an option but I think there are better routes for them to put that on first.

cathay747 wrote:
Hmmmm...yes, good point. I forgot about those. Well, we'll just have to wait and see. This is all informed speculation for now. BA may surprise us. Hell, it's even possible, if AA had the metal to spare, that they turn the route over to all-AA metal.


Very likely not going to happen, BA is a staple and it performs far better on the Europe side (for both AA and BA) than it does on the US side. BA has a lot of pride in serving PHX for as long as they have and there are a lot of good cargo contracts that they have.
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cle757
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:22 pm

Hearing rumors that UA will expand PHX once they move to T3. Any idea where they would expand?..I know they could use more IAD service.
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jplatts
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:30 pm

cle757 wrote:
Hearing rumors that UA will expand PHX once they move to T3. Any idea where they would expand?..I know they could use more IAD service.


While I could see UA possibly bringing back PHX-CLE nonstop service since UA still has nonstop service to some non-UA hub destinations from its former CLE hub, I do not expect UA to add any other new nonstop routes out of PHX. However, I could see UA increasing frequencies on existing nonstop routes out of PHX to its hubs.
 
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cathay747
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:28 pm

alasizon wrote:
SQ317 wrote:
Given BA's new A350s won't have First, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see them replacing the 747 on mid-J routes w/ low F demand such as this. After all, that is what BA are buying them to replace - see https://www.ausbt.com.au/british-airway ... -1000-jets

The A350 may be an option but I think there are better routes for them to put that on first.

cathay747 wrote:
Hmmmm...yes, good point. I forgot about those. Well, we'll just have to wait and see. This is all informed speculation for now. BA may surprise us. Hell, it's even possible, if AA had the metal to spare, that they turn the route over to all-AA metal.


Very likely not going to happen, BA is a staple and it performs far better on the Europe side (for both AA and BA) than it does on the US side. BA has a lot of pride in serving PHX for as long as they have and there are a lot of good cargo contracts that they have.


Agreed w/you about the A350, I bet you'll be proven correct. My money's still on a 772 given how they can tailor capacity to demand better with those given the 3 different configs. but same cargo capacity...and I didn't know that about cargo; you mentioned cargo earlier & I forgot to ask about that.

As for pride about serving PHX for so long...then why is BA's flight so chronically late, sometimes hideously so? Their ontime performance here sucks and I don't understand it given that the airplane is on the ground @ LHR for hours after it arrives from wherever...usually an early AM arrival. They need to put some pride in their performance! (I'm sure it's due to MX on a JFK-bound bird and they pull the PHX bird to keep JFK ontime and to hell with PHX LOL)
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cathay747
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:32 pm

jplatts wrote:
cle757 wrote:
Hearing rumors that UA will expand PHX once they move to T3. Any idea where they would expand?..I know they could use more IAD service.


While I could see UA possibly bringing back PHX-CLE nonstop service since UA still has nonstop service to some non-UA hub destinations from its former CLE hub, I do not expect UA to add any other new nonstop routes out of PHX. However, I could see UA increasing frequencies on existing nonstop routes out of PHX to its hubs.


Agreed. I don't foresee any new routes either; expanded freqs., yeah, maybe. I agree with "cle757" about IAD, I should think IAD could support a 2nd flight by now. They've done 2 flights before but it didn't last, so I could be wrong, but that was years ago. Maybe now?
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wildwobby
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:30 am

Currently a JAL 777 sitting by terminal 2. Not sure when it arrived or when it departs. I assume it is a baseball charter.

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treebeard787
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:57 am

wildwobby wrote:
Currently a JAL 777 sitting by terminal 2. Not sure when it arrived or when it departs. I assume it is a baseball charter.

Image


It arrived at 12am last night from Haneda. I don't know exactly when they are planning to depart. It is baseball charter, the team arrived a few weeks ago on a JAL 787.
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alasizon
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:51 am

treebeard787 wrote:
wildwobby wrote:
Currently a JAL 777 sitting by terminal 2. Not sure when it arrived or when it departs. I assume it is a baseball charter.

Image


It arrived at 12am last night from Haneda. I don't know exactly when they are planning to depart. It is baseball charter, the team arrived a few weeks ago on a JAL 787.


Should be departing in the AM tomorrow from what I recall. They typically vacate the fields today since the Mariners and Padres move in.
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treebeard787
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:56 pm

alasizon wrote:
treebeard787 wrote:
wildwobby wrote:
Currently a JAL 777 sitting by terminal 2. Not sure when it arrived or when it departs. I assume it is a baseball charter.

Image


It arrived at 12am last night from Haneda. I don't know exactly when they are planning to depart. It is baseball charter, the team arrived a few weeks ago on a JAL 787.


Should be departing in the AM tomorrow from what I recall. They typically vacate the fields today since the Mariners and Padres move in.


They did indeed leave early in the AM, 1:11 to be exact, for a 14 hour flight to OKA. https://flightaware.com/live/flight/JAL ... /KPHX/ROAH
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wn676
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:45 pm

cle757 wrote:
I know they could use more IAD service.


The current daily flight is timed to meet the afternoon ”superbank” and is probably the only reason a nonstop exists at all. Outside of that there’s really not much more that IAD offers that IAH, ORD, and EWR can’t already provide. DCA is well-covered by AA and there’s probably not a lot of value in chasing PHX-WAS O&D.

I think UA will add frequency though as the other hub bank structures allow, and upgauge as well. The MAX 10 would be a good fit for the ORD and EWR fights where gate space is at a premium.
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cathay747
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:03 pm

wn676 wrote:
cle757 wrote:
I know they could use more IAD service.


The current daily flight is timed to meet the afternoon ”superbank” and is probably the only reason a nonstop exists at all. Outside of that there’s really not much more that IAD offers that IAH, ORD, and EWR can’t already provide. DCA is well-covered by AA and there’s probably not a lot of value in chasing PHX-WAS O&D.

I think UA will add frequency though as the other hub bank structures allow, and upgauge as well. The MAX 10 would be a good fit for the ORD and EWR fights where gate space is at a premium.


Still seems to me that with the development & population explosion in Loudon & western/NW Fairfax counties a 2nd nonstop by UA IAD/PHX/IAD ought to work after all these years. But perhaps not...UA is obviously the best judge of that.
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jplatts
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:00 pm

cathay747 wrote:
Still seems to me that with the development & population explosion in Loudon & western/NW Fairfax counties a 2nd nonstop by UA IAD/PHX/IAD ought to work after all these years. But perhaps not...UA is obviously the best judge of that.


While WN doesn't currently serve IAD nonstop from PHX, WN already serves IAD and WN could add PHX-IAD nonstop service.
 
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cathay747
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:17 pm

jplatts wrote:
cathay747 wrote:
Still seems to me that with the development & population explosion in Loudon & western/NW Fairfax counties a 2nd nonstop by UA IAD/PHX/IAD ought to work after all these years. But perhaps not...UA is obviously the best judge of that.


While WN doesn't currently serve IAD nonstop from PHX, WN already serves IAD and WN could add PHX-IAD nonstop service.


Good point; I forgot about WN. If there was enough demand for a non-hub-feeding P2P IAD/PHX/IAD flight (so read here: not by UA), you'd think WN would do it.
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jplatts
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:26 pm

cathay747 wrote:
Good point; I forgot about WN. If there was enough demand for a non-hub-feeding P2P IAD/PHX/IAD flight (so read here: not by UA), you'd think WN would do it.


PHX is one of WN's largest focus cities, and WN also has a large presence in Southern California and the Baltimore/Washington region to support PHX-IAD nonstop service. There would also be some connecting traffic from Southern California in addition to O&D on WN's PHX-IAD nonstops if WN adds PHX-IAD nonstop service.

Even though AA already serves DCA nonstop from PHX, PHX is outside of the DCA perimeter and WN cannot serve DCA nonstop from PHX without a beyond-perimeter slot exemption. While BWI is close enough to Downtown DC, the US Capitol, and the National Mall to be a viable option for those traveling to DC from PHX, IAD is almost 60 miles west of BWI on the opposite side of DC.
 
Darenriley
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:49 pm

Phoenix Business Journal had a report today about what it would take Phoenix to get a non-stop flight to Asia and it says business demand is the key driver. It is behind a paywall, did anyone have a chance to read this? It does say that American Airlines and Japan Airlines could be working on a deal to launch a direct flight between Phoenix and Tokyo.

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/new ... irect.html
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:42 pm

I read somewhere that the airlines Currently serving terminal 2 will move to the new section of terminal of 3. Is this true? If so when?
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:21 pm

Darenriley wrote:
Phoenix Business Journal had a report today about what it would take Phoenix to get a non-stop flight to Asia and it says business demand is the key driver. It is behind a paywall, did anyone have a chance to read this? It does say that American Airlines and Japan Airlines could be working on a deal to launch a direct flight between Phoenix and Tokyo.

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/new ... irect.html


PHX has met with Hainan, Korean, AA, and JAL

Hainan: "Phoenix is on the list of places we want to fly""It's not at the top of the list, but it isn't at the bottom of the lister either"

Korean's flight to LAS costs 80-100 million a year

Vasu Raja AA VP of Network planning: "As big of a market as PHX is, there just isn't enough of a return"

Steve Smith JAL VP of Global Sales: "Many more people, especially from small businesses, who go to Japan/Asia on a regular basis. However they book round-trip tickets to LA/SF and then another round-trip to Asia. As far as PHX officials know, these individuals were just in Cali for a week and not in Japan."

Smith plans to work with PHX and Economic Development officials to determine the number of regular flyers

You need to have business travel to make it worth it, the front of the plane pays for the rest of it

There is a big desire from Asian tourists to visit the American Southwest, however most are choosing to fly into LAS rather than PHX, which is a reason Hainan and Korean fly to LAS.

Airline most likely to fly PHX-Asia is AA, however, they won't say how close they are to landing a flight

"The recent expansion of the LHR flight could help determine if PHX could make a nonstop flight to Asia work," Raja said
"Let's see how Heathrow does first"

Development and expansion at NRT could open up room for an NRT flight as well.
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MO11
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:16 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
I read somewhere that the airlines Currently serving terminal 2 will move to the new section of terminal of 3. Is this true? If so when?


Do you mean when Terminal 2 closes? And do you know that airlines that formerly occupied the north side of T3 have moved to the "new section"?
 
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1337Delta764
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:27 am

MO11 wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
I read somewhere that the airlines Currently serving terminal 2 will move to the new section of terminal of 3. Is this true? If so when?


Do you mean when Terminal 2 closes? And do you know that airlines that formerly occupied the north side of T3 have moved to the "new section"?


Based on previous information, UA, AS, and AC will be in T3N (the latter moving from T4), while DL, F9, B6, and SY will be in T3S. It was also stated that HA will move back to T3N once construction is complete, however, that is currently up in the air due to potential widebody gate availability issues in T3N.
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cathay747
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:52 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Darenriley wrote:
Phoenix Business Journal had a report today about what it would take Phoenix to get a non-stop flight to Asia and it says business demand is the key driver. It is behind a paywall, did anyone have a chance to read this? It does say that American Airlines and Japan Airlines could be working on a deal to launch a direct flight between Phoenix and Tokyo.

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/new ... irect.html


PHX has met with Hainan, Korean, AA, and JAL

Hainan: "Phoenix is on the list of places we want to fly""It's not at the top of the list, but it isn't at the bottom of the lister either"

Korean's flight to LAS costs 80-100 million a year

Vasu Raja AA VP of Network planning: "As big of a market as PHX is, there just isn't enough of a return"

Steve Smith JAL VP of Global Sales: "Many more people, especially from small businesses, who go to Japan/Asia on a regular basis. However they book round-trip tickets to LA/SF and then another round-trip to Asia. As far as PHX officials know, these individuals were just in Cali for a week and not in Japan."

Smith plans to work with PHX and Economic Development officials to determine the number of regular flyers

You need to have business travel to make it worth it, the front of the plane pays for the rest of it

There is a big desire from Asian tourists to visit the American Southwest, however most are choosing to fly into LAS rather than PHX, which is a reason Hainan and Korean fly to LAS.

Airline most likely to fly PHX-Asia is AA, however, they won't say how close they are to landing a flight

"The recent expansion of the LHR flight could help determine if PHX could make a nonstop flight to Asia work," Raja said
"Let's see how Heathrow does first"

Development and expansion at NRT could open up room for an NRT flight as well.


All of this makes sense to me. VERY interesting the quoted yearly cost of KE's LAS route...WOW!! But as for PHX to Asia, I believe this is the key point: You need to have business travel to make it worth it, the front of the plane pays for the rest of it
That and I'd say also a fair amount of cargo.
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travaz
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:02 am

I would think there would be some demand from Honeywell, Boeing, Intel and others in the valley. I don't know if it is enough but maybe 4X a week
 
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cathay747
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:04 pm

travaz wrote:
I would think there would be some demand from Honeywell, Boeing, Intel and others in the valley. I don't know if it is enough but maybe 4X a week


My thinking is that 4x/week would be the max. freq. such a route could support; and possibly starting with only 3x/week.
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alasizon
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:19 pm

cathay747 wrote:
travaz wrote:
I would think there would be some demand from Honeywell, Boeing, Intel and others in the valley. I don't know if it is enough but maybe 4X a week


My thinking is that 4x/week would be the max. freq. such a route could support; and possibly starting with only 3x/week.


The problem is that most of the demand from within the valley with those companies is that they are not dealing with the International business for the most part; its mostly domestic. I'm not convinced there is enough demand to support a non-stop that would be at a premium price compared to the very low cost flights available from LAX & SFO.
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cathay747
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:40 pm

alasizon wrote:
cathay747 wrote:
travaz wrote:
I would think there would be some demand from Honeywell, Boeing, Intel and others in the valley. I don't know if it is enough but maybe 4X a week


My thinking is that 4x/week would be the max. freq. such a route could support; and possibly starting with only 3x/week.


The problem is that most of the demand from within the valley with those companies is that they are not dealing with the International business for the most part; its mostly domestic. I'm not convinced there is enough demand to support a non-stop that would be at a premium price compared to the very low cost flights available from LAX & SFO.


Interesting point/issue...who'd a known??

As for pricing...I think if anybody started a PHX-Asia nonstop, they'd have to keep the price-point in all classes competitive with routings via the west coast gateways or it'd be toast. I can't see anybody being able to get away with charging a "premium". In fact, if it were AA/JL to/from TYO, which I think is the most likely of any, I personally feel they'd need to undercut UA/DL fares a bit to entice pax (on top of a gazllion bonus FF miles for a fairly long promo period). They're going to have to be smart, which doesn't come easily to some carriers, if they have any hope of it working...which is going to also mean a huge level of promotion/advertising.
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SierraPacific
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:55 pm

Are there any updates on the trans-border cargo hub that is being built at Gateway? The local Queen Creek paper put out an article on a new Mexican cargo carrier starting service but neglecting to put the name of the airline in it.

https://queencreekindependent.com/news/ ... y-airport/
 
MO11
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:35 am

SierraPacific wrote:
Are there any updates on the trans-border cargo hub that is being built at Gateway? The local Queen Creek paper put out an article on a new Mexican cargo carrier starting service but neglecting to put the name of the airline in it.

https://queencreekindependent.com/news/ ... y-airport/



From what I've been told, it will be Aeronaves TSM
 
alasizon
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:42 am

SierraPacific wrote:
Are there any updates on the trans-border cargo hub that is being built at Gateway? The local Queen Creek paper put out an article on a new Mexican cargo carrier starting service but neglecting to put the name of the airline in it.

https://queencreekindependent.com/news/ ... y-airport/


I'll believe it when I see the first flight operate out of there. The executive director who is quoted mentioned Cal Pac as still flying there and named both Westjet and Swoop as separate airlines flying to Gateway. I think its great that Gateway is trying to develop itself but I just don't see it getting these "thousands of high-wage jobs" when its really just going to be warehouse jobs at best.
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910A
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 23, 2019 1:36 am

MO11 wrote:
SierraPacific wrote:
Are there any updates on the trans-border cargo hub that is being built at Gateway? The local Queen Creek paper put out an article on a new Mexican cargo carrier starting service but neglecting to put the name of the airline in it.

https://queencreekindependent.com/news/ ... y-airport/



From what I've been told, it will be Aeronaves TSM


DC-9 freighters ..big time..

alasizon wrote:
SierraPacific wrote:
Are there any updates on the trans-border cargo hub that is being built at Gateway? The local Queen Creek paper put out an article on a new Mexican cargo carrier starting service but neglecting to put the name of the airline in it.

https://queencreekindependent.com/news/ ... y-airport/


I'll believe it when I see the first flight operate out of there. The executive director who is quoted mentioned Cal Pac as still flying there and named both Westjet and Swoop as separate airlines flying to Gateway. I think its great that Gateway is trying to develop itself but I just don't see it getting these "thousands of high-wage jobs" when its really just going to be warehouse jobs at best.


The Board of Directors of Gateway are just a bunch of politicians that have very little knowledge of airports, aviation..

I looked at the January passenger figures for Gateway..it showed WestJet was down 34% or so, but since they separate Swoop, once you add Swoop to WS numbers the WestJet family is actually up.
 
Vctony
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:59 am

Some interesting developments in the "preferred alternatives" listed in the Comprehensive Asset Management plan.

Among the most interesting proposals:

https://www.skyharbor.com/docs/default- ... ff229588_4

- A 6 gate second T3N pier concourse (which appears similar to LAX's T8 and will have a secure connector between T3N and T4N but may be served by buses when initially constructed)
- The removal of the N3 and N4 concourses and the addition of a N3.5 concourse which is 150 feet wide for international operations
- A piered West Terminal with a secure connection to T3 (and with that a secure connection to T4).
 
AntonioMartin
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:28 am

mga707 wrote:
travaz wrote:
I cant imagine that deicing is required too many times in a year. I would think that they could go a couple of years without having to deice a plane at PHX.


I know PHX is over a thousand feet lower in elevation than TUS, but it's been cold all over AZ since Christmas. Hard freeze warning tonight and tomorrow night for Pima County (Tucson) as well as other adjoining counties. Snow all around the Tucson metro area this AM. Sub-30-degree morning lows expected to continue through the week.

A bit off topic but yes..Ive seen white blanket snow streets twice this year only 2 hours north of Phoenix by car so yeah its cold here in AZ!
 
austwin
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:18 pm

Vctony wrote:
Some interesting developments in the "preferred alternatives" listed in the Comprehensive Asset Management plan.

Among the most interesting proposals:

https://www.skyharbor.com/docs/default- ... ff229588_4

- A 6 gate second T3N pier concourse (which appears similar to LAX's T8 and will have a secure connector between T3N and T4N but may be served by buses when initially constructed)
- The removal of the N3 and N4 concourses and the addition of a N3.5 concourse which is 150 feet wide for international operations
- A piered West Terminal with a secure connection to T3 (and with that a secure connection to T4).



Very interesting. It's a far cry from when my dad would take me to Sky Harbor to watch planes and as we stood on the roof of T1 we could watch T2 being built.
 
BigPlaneGuy13
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:35 pm

Vctony wrote:
Some interesting developments in the "preferred alternatives" listed in the Comprehensive Asset Management plan.

Among the most interesting proposals:

https://www.skyharbor.com/docs/default- ... ff229588_4

- A 6 gate second T3N pier concourse (which appears similar to LAX's T8 and will have a secure connector between T3N and T4N but may be served by buses when initially constructed)
- The removal of the N3 and N4 concourses and the addition of a N3.5 concourse which is 150 feet wide for international operations
- A piered West Terminal with a secure connection to T3 (and with that a secure connection to T4).


This is really interesting. After looking over this, my question is: if this expansion were to ocurr, would there be a need to construct an additional runway? Potentially a 26/8 L and R? Seems like a lot of added capacity. How is this measured? Thanks!
 
skyharborshome
Posts: 351
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:04 pm

Vctony wrote:
Some interesting developments in the "preferred alternatives" listed in the Comprehensive Asset Management plan.

Among the most interesting proposals:

https://www.skyharbor.com/docs/default- ... ff229588_4

- A 6 gate second T3N pier concourse (which appears similar to LAX's T8 and will have a secure connector between T3N and T4N but may be served by buses when initially constructed)
- The removal of the N3 and N4 concourses and the addition of a N3.5 concourse which is 150 feet wide for international operations
- A piered West Terminal with a secure connection to T3 (and with that a secure connection to T4).


Very impressive. I always wondered when the airport would go north and how that would look. Using that area as cargo makes a lot of sense. Also looks like big expansion plans for Air National Guard. Glad that Sky Harbor is planning for so much future growth.
Fly CHD!
 
skyharborshome
Posts: 351
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:08 pm

BigPlaneGuy13 wrote:
Vctony wrote:
Some interesting developments in the "preferred alternatives" listed in the Comprehensive Asset Management plan.

Among the most interesting proposals:

https://www.skyharbor.com/docs/default- ... ff229588_4

- A 6 gate second T3N pier concourse (which appears similar to LAX's T8 and will have a secure connector between T3N and T4N but may be served by buses when initially constructed)
- The removal of the N3 and N4 concourses and the addition of a N3.5 concourse which is 150 feet wide for international operations
- A piered West Terminal with a secure connection to T3 (and with that a secure connection to T4).


This is really interesting. After looking over this, my question is: if this expansion were to ocurr, would there be a need to construct an additional runway? Potentially a 26/8 L and R? Seems like a lot of added capacity. How is this measured? Thanks!


We always thought that eventually they would go north and one comment I always heard was how difficult that would be with the cargo train traffic. Looks like they are ok to dig a trench however once they put cargo up there, looks like we are locked into 3 runways for the foreseeable future. With the rate Phoenix mega-plex is growing, they may start looking to increase IWA usage and in a couple of decades if the plans for way out west happen, there could be a small reliever there too. With all the land on the west side and the 3 big runways at Gateway, would be much cheaper and less disruptive than building a fourth or fifth at PHX.
Fly CHD!
 
alasizon
Posts: 1879
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:25 pm

skyharborshome wrote:
We always thought that eventually they would go north and one comment I always heard was how difficult that would be with the cargo train traffic. Looks like they are ok to dig a trench however once they put cargo up there, looks like we are locked into 3 runways for the foreseeable future. With the rate Phoenix mega-plex is growing, they may start looking to increase IWA usage and in a couple of decades if the plans for way out west happen, there could be a small reliever there too. With all the land on the west side and the 3 big runways at Gateway, would be much cheaper and less disruptive than building a fourth or fifth at PHX.


The existing three runways serve PHX well and unless they can figure out how to increase the departure rate/flow; adding an additional runway doesn't do much in the grand scheme of things. The problems that Sky Harbor sees are mostly departure based since 8/26 is used too little for departures from the north side even when arrival traffic is minimal and it would help boost the departure rate.
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