cathay747 wrote:

Oh, I didn't know they'd done that, or that we ever got mid-J ships here (except for a last min. equip. swap). Have they always done this? Every time I've ever looked in FLIFO in Amadeus it always shows the 52J config.

They didn't used to but last year the 2nd flight (non-daily) was almost always mid-J and the daily flight also was probably about 15-20% of the time. Not sure if it was just a Low-J availability issue or what.

AA's LHR-PHX service starts today.. N776AN has the honors for the first flight..

chrisair wrote:

Noticed a bunch of WN 7M8s sitting on the west side of the field by the "executive" terminal. Also saw a couple AA tails. Did they send the planes here too?

A bit late to reply but they've all departed for VCV except for one. N313SB is still parked, not sure of that ship's future.

910A wrote:

AA's LHR-PHX service starts today.. N776AN has the honors for the first flight..

Oh wow, I'd forgotten the start yet. Just tracked it on Flight Aware, it's a little past half-way here. Need to try to remember to go out and look for it, filed as using the BRUSR1 STAR so would be able to see it from our house here in Avondale.

cathay747 wrote:

910A wrote:

AA's LHR-PHX service starts today.. N776AN has the honors for the first flight..

Oh wow, I'd forgotten the start yet. Just tracked it on Flight Aware, it's a little past half-way here. Need to try to remember to go out and look for it, filed as using the BRUSR1 STAR so would be able to see it from our house here in Avondale.

I should be able to see it from my house in South Peoria. I think it is awesome! Tracking on FR24 currently over Hudson Bay inbound.

What crew base is staffing the PHX-LHR flights? I assume a crew was deadheaded from LAX for the inaugural PHX-LHR flight

INFINITI329 wrote:

What crew base is staffing the PHX-LHR flights? I assume a crew was deadheaded from LAX for the inaugural PHX-LHR flight

The flight rotation is RDU-LHR-PHX-LHR to probably RDU?

Ishrion wrote:

INFINITI329 wrote:

What crew base is staffing the PHX-LHR flights? I assume a crew was deadheaded from LAX for the inaugural PHX-LHR flight

The flight rotation is RDU-LHR-PHX-LHR to probably RDU?

Looks like it’s actually planned to turn PHX-LHR-DFW for the next couple of months at least.

From PHX Airport's Twitter: https://twitter.com/PHXSkyHarbor/status ... 2101825536

It's great that the AA flight has started but I have no desire to fly an AA 777 in Y. Especially if the alternative is a BA 744.

INFINITI329 wrote:

What crew base is staffing the PHX-LHR flights? I assume a crew was deadheaded from LAX for the inaugural PHX-LHR flight

You have to figure either a 4-day trip, with a deadhead leg on day 1 or day 4, or a 6-day trip, starting and ending at the base. Of course, the crew doesn't have to stay with the same airplane at London.

I'm told some of the flight attendants are PHX based.

MO11 wrote:

INFINITI329 wrote:

What crew base is staffing the PHX-LHR flights? I assume a crew was deadheaded from LAX for the inaugural PHX-LHR flight

You have to figure either a 4-day trip, with a deadhead leg on day 1 or day 4, or a 6-day trip, starting and ending at the base. Of course, the crew doesn't have to stay with the same airplane at London.

I'm told some of the flight attendants are PHX based.

All of the flight attendants on today's outbound to LHR are PHX based. Pilots are LAX based. Don't know if that will continue.

Ishrion wrote:

From PHX Airport's Twitter: https://twitter.com/PHXSkyHarbor/status ... 2101825536

Very cool to see. Thank you for sharing.

Ishrion wrote:

From PHX Airport's Twitter: https://twitter.com/PHXSkyHarbor/status ... 2101825536

Thanks for sharing this. And what a typically beautiful weather day for an inaugural! Was there a water cannon salute on either arrival or departure?

cathay747 wrote:

Ishrion wrote:

From PHX Airport's Twitter: https://twitter.com/PHXSkyHarbor/status ... 2101825536

Thanks for sharing this. And what a typically beautiful weather day for an inaugural! Was there a water cannon salute on either arrival or departure?

I was there for the arrival and departure, and they didn't do any water cannon salute for either. There wasn't much of any indication this was a new flight actually.

treebeard787 wrote:

cathay747 wrote:

Ishrion wrote:

From PHX Airport's Twitter: https://twitter.com/PHXSkyHarbor/status ... 2101825536

Thanks for sharing this. And what a typically beautiful weather day for an inaugural! Was there a water cannon salute on either arrival or departure?

I was there for the arrival and departure, and they didn't do any water cannon salute for either. There wasn't much of any indication this was a new flight actually.

That sucks. The Twitter posted the inaugural with flags and the landing

Getting ready for fire season? Out for a walk at about 9am and the DC-10 fire tanker flew over me while landing at IWA. Apparently came in from ABQ.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/T91 ... /KABQ/KIWA

Speaking of fly-overs, a B-17 flew by our house in Avondale yesterday around 1730 at fairly low altitude, heading south-to-north, clearly on approach, and as he went below my visible horizon, it looked like he banked right toward Glendale airport. Anybody know anything about this? I was thinking it's in prep for the Luke Days airshow, but I just Googled that and learned that's every-other-year and there isn't one this year.

Ishrion wrote:

treebeard787 wrote:

cathay747 wrote:

Thanks for sharing this. And what a typically beautiful weather day for an inaugural! Was there a water cannon salute on either arrival or departure?

I was there for the arrival and departure, and they didn't do any water cannon salute for either. There wasn't much of any indication this was a new flight actually.

That sucks. The Twitter posted the inaugural with flags and the landing

Yeah, sucks indeed. Given the desire and efforts to get long-haul intercontinental service here, you'd think they'd paint the runway with a water-soluble red (so could wash off easily later) to make it look like red carpet!

cathay747 wrote:

Speaking of fly-overs, a B-17 flew by our house in Avondale yesterday around 1730 at fairly low altitude, heading south-to-north, clearly on approach, and as he went below my visible horizon, it looked like he banked right toward Glendale airport. Anybody know anything about this? I was thinking it's in prep for the Luke Days airshow, but I just Googled that and learned that's every-other-year and there isn't one this year.

I live closer to Falcon; the CAF flies that quite frequently.

[threeid][/threeid]

910A wrote:

Getting ready for fire season? Out for a walk at about 9am and the DC-10 fire tanker flew over me while landing at IWA. Apparently came in from ABQ.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/T91 ... /KABQ/KIWA

We were flying to Tucson on Saturday and getting close to Pinal I said "whoa, something big just took off from MZJ." Turns out it was the 747 Global Super Tanker. It did a 180 and did a simulated water drop rjust east of the airport. Was very cool to see that in person. Wish I could attach the video.

MO11 wrote:

cathay747 wrote:

Speaking of fly-overs, a B-17 flew by our house in Avondale yesterday around 1730 at fairly low altitude, heading south-to-north, clearly on approach, and as he went below my visible horizon, it looked like he banked right toward Glendale airport. Anybody know anything about this? I was thinking it's in prep for the Luke Days airshow, but I just Googled that and learned that's every-other-year and there isn't one this year.

I live closer to Falcon; the CAF flies that quite frequently.

Ah, so like a training or post-MX test flight?

cathay747 wrote:

Ah, so like a training or post-MX test flight?

Tourist flights: https://www.azcaf.org/fly-with-us/

I do flight training at Falcon; I've taken off behind these guys. It's a sight.

spacecadet wrote:

cathay747 wrote:

Ah, so like a training or post-MX test flight?

Tourist flights: https://www.azcaf.org/fly-with-us/

I do flight training at Falcon; I've taken off behind these guys. It's a sight.

Have you met the PSA pilot guys at the museum? They are pretty cool people...

I took some photos at Falcon the other day, trying to load them here.

I always wondered if we should get some Tijuana non stop from here or are those well covered by the San Diego runs?

cathay747 wrote:

Speaking of fly-overs, a B-17 flew by our house in Avondale yesterday around 1730 at fairly low altitude, heading south-to-north, clearly on approach, and as he went below my visible horizon, it looked like he banked right toward Glendale airport. Anybody know anything about this? I was thinking it's in prep for the Luke Days airshow, but I just Googled that and learned that's every-other-year and there isn't one this year.

That was probably Sentimental Journey based out of Falcon. Luke and DM trade off the air show every year. DM just had their's a couple weeks ago.

skyharborshome wrote:

[threeid][/threeid]

910A wrote:

Getting ready for fire season? Out for a walk at about 9am and the DC-10 fire tanker flew over me while landing at IWA. Apparently came in from ABQ.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/T91 ... /KABQ/KIWA

We were flying to Tucson on Saturday and getting close to Pinal I said "whoa, something big just took off from MZJ." Turns out it was the 747 Global Super Tanker. It did a 180 and did a simulated water drop rjust east of the airport. Was very cool to see that in person. Wish I could attach the video.

It was there in February for heavy maintenance when I was on the American Aviation Historical Society tour. Must be done with that and getting ready to head back to COS.

spacecadet wrote:

cathay747 wrote:

Ah, so like a training or post-MX test flight?

Tourist flights: https://www.azcaf.org/fly-with-us/

I do flight training at Falcon; I've taken off behind these guys. It's a sight.

Oh WOW! I never knew they did that! Thanks for the info and the link!!

777PHX wrote:

cathay747 wrote:

Speaking of fly-overs, a B-17 flew by our house in Avondale yesterday around 1730 at fairly low altitude, heading south-to-north, clearly on approach, and as he went below my visible horizon, it looked like he banked right toward Glendale airport. Anybody know anything about this? I was thinking it's in prep for the Luke Days airshow, but I just Googled that and learned that's every-other-year and there isn't one this year.

That was probably Sentimental Journey based out of Falcon. Luke and DM trade off the air show every year. DM just had their's a couple weeks ago.

I see. Thanks. Uh...pardon me for possibly sounding dumb, but...DM = Davis Monthan?

cathay747 wrote:

777PHX wrote:

cathay747 wrote:

Speaking of fly-overs, a B-17 flew by our house in Avondale yesterday around 1730 at fairly low altitude, heading south-to-north, clearly on approach, and as he went below my visible horizon, it looked like he banked right toward Glendale airport. Anybody know anything about this? I was thinking it's in prep for the Luke Days airshow, but I just Googled that and learned that's every-other-year and there isn't one this year.

That was probably Sentimental Journey based out of Falcon. Luke and DM trade off the air show every year. DM just had their's a couple weeks ago.

I see. Thanks. Uh...pardon me for possibly sounding dumb, but...DM = Davis Monthan?

Yessir.

Hi Everyone,

I know its early to ask, Would anyone know hows AA's PHX-LHR route is doing? I know the route has already been extended to year around, but how are the load factors looking?

From this morning's Arizona Republic: Condor Airlines looks to expand Phoenix-Germany flights.
https://www.azcentral.com/story/travel/ ... 268504002/

Now, Condor's second season of Phoenix flights is about to take off and the airline is looking for ways to proactively expand its service instead of react to the market. “We were actually very, very, very surprised by the strong demand,” said Jens Boyd, head of revenue management for Thomas Cook Group Airlines. (Thomas Cook Airlines U.K. is the parent company of Condor Airlines.)

Boyd readily admits Condor underestimated the Phoenix market. Phoenix had been on a list for possible expansion for some time, but the airline didn’t anticipate the strong bookings from Germany into Phoenix nor the interest from Arizonans with connections to Germany.

910A wrote:

From this morning's Arizona Republic: Condor Airlines looks to expand Phoenix-Germany flights.
https://www.azcentral.com/story/travel/ ... 268504002/

Now, Condor's second season of Phoenix flights is about to take off and the airline is looking for ways to proactively expand its service instead of react to the market. “We were actually very, very, very surprised by the strong demand,” said Jens Boyd, head of revenue management for Thomas Cook Group Airlines. (Thomas Cook Airlines U.K. is the parent company of Condor Airlines.)

Boyd readily admits Condor underestimated the Phoenix market. Phoenix had been on a list for possible expansion for some time, but the airline didn’t anticipate the strong bookings from Germany into Phoenix nor the interest from Arizonans with connections to Germany.

It'll be interesting to see if this prompts LH to take a crack at the market.

777PHX wrote:

910A wrote:

From this morning's Arizona Republic: Condor Airlines looks to expand Phoenix-Germany flights.
https://www.azcentral.com/story/travel/ ... 268504002/

Now, Condor's second season of Phoenix flights is about to take off and the airline is looking for ways to proactively expand its service instead of react to the market. “We were actually very, very, very surprised by the strong demand,” said Jens Boyd, head of revenue management for Thomas Cook Group Airlines. (Thomas Cook Airlines U.K. is the parent company of Condor Airlines.)

Boyd readily admits Condor underestimated the Phoenix market. Phoenix had been on a list for possible expansion for some time, but the airline didn’t anticipate the strong bookings from Germany into Phoenix nor the interest from Arizonans with connections to Germany.

It'll be interesting to see if this prompts LH to take a crack at the market.

I also wouldn't put it past AA to be monitoring this route closely!

skyharborshome wrote:

[threeid][/threeid]

910A wrote:

Getting ready for fire season? Out for a walk at about 9am and the DC-10 fire tanker flew over me while landing at IWA. Apparently came in from ABQ.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/T91 ... /KABQ/KIWA

We were flying to Tucson on Saturday and getting close to Pinal I said "whoa, something big just took off from MZJ." Turns out it was the 747 Global Super Tanker. It did a 180 and did a simulated water drop rjust east of the airport. Was very cool to see that in person. Wish I could attach the video.

One of my filters on FR24 is for 747s so I see its flights and it has been doing those for the past several days.

910A wrote:

From this morning's Arizona Republic: Condor Airlines looks to expand Phoenix-Germany flights.
https://www.azcentral.com/story/travel/ ... 268504002/

Now, Condor's second season of Phoenix flights is about to take off and the airline is looking for ways to proactively expand its service instead of react to the market. “We were actually very, very, very surprised by the strong demand,” said Jens Boyd, head of revenue management for Thomas Cook Group Airlines. (Thomas Cook Airlines U.K. is the parent company of Condor Airlines.)

Boyd readily admits Condor underestimated the Phoenix market. Phoenix had been on a list for possible expansion for some time, but the airline didn’t anticipate the strong bookings from Germany into Phoenix nor the interest from Arizonans with connections to Germany.

Based on the article and comments by Thomas Cook it looks like this will operate during the winter

Boyd said airline officials see similarities between Phoenix and Las Vegas in how Condor could expand its service here. They see Europeans being interested in Phoenix as place to begin a trip around the Southwestern U.S., and they think Phoenix residents may be interested in winter trips to Germany’s Christmas markets.

Also seeing how SAN got LH after DE served for 2 years, maybe this could mark a return and hopefully they can coexist. Thoughts?

777PHX wrote:

910A wrote:

From this morning's Arizona Republic: Condor Airlines looks to expand Phoenix-Germany flights.
https://www.azcentral.com/story/travel/ ... 268504002/

Now, Condor's second season of Phoenix flights is about to take off and the airline is looking for ways to proactively expand its service instead of react to the market. “We were actually very, very, very surprised by the strong demand,” said Jens Boyd, head of revenue management for Thomas Cook Group Airlines. (Thomas Cook Airlines U.K. is the parent company of Condor Airlines.)

Boyd readily admits Condor underestimated the Phoenix market. Phoenix had been on a list for possible expansion for some time, but the airline didn’t anticipate the strong bookings from Germany into Phoenix nor the interest from Arizonans with connections to Germany.

It'll be interesting to see if this prompts LH to take a crack at the market.

I would tend to doubt that. For one thing, DE's cost-structure is lower than LH's; I never looked at what DE's fares were, but I'm sure they were lower than what LH could offer, and that had to have played a role in DE's better-than-expected success. Plus there's still the issue of LH not really having an aircraft right-sized for this market; I believe that LH's A330's come closest in terms of capacity to DE's 763's, but they're more premium-heavy than DE, and I'm thinking that would be the killer for LH. Cost-wise, LH could use Eurowings, but then we're talking A340's, which I'm thinking is just too big for this market given the lack of feed they'd get here; they'd have to rely totally on O&D traffic like DE .

Of course I could be totally wrong. We'll just have to wait and see.

cm642 wrote:

777PHX wrote:

910A wrote:

From this morning's Arizona Republic: Condor Airlines looks to expand Phoenix-Germany flights.
https://www.azcentral.com/story/travel/ ... 268504002/

It'll be interesting to see if this prompts LH to take a crack at the market.

I also wouldn't put it past AA to be monitoring this route closely!

Yeah, there's a thought. Given the feed AA would have on this end, you would think they've watched this with interest.

BA744PHX wrote:

910A wrote:

From this morning's Arizona Republic: Condor Airlines looks to expand Phoenix-Germany flights.
https://www.azcentral.com/story/travel/ ... 268504002/

Now, Condor's second season of Phoenix flights is about to take off and the airline is looking for ways to proactively expand its service instead of react to the market. “We were actually very, very, very surprised by the strong demand,” said Jens Boyd, head of revenue management for Thomas Cook Group Airlines. (Thomas Cook Airlines U.K. is the parent company of Condor Airlines.)

Boyd readily admits Condor underestimated the Phoenix market. Phoenix had been on a list for possible expansion for some time, but the airline didn’t anticipate the strong bookings from Germany into Phoenix nor the interest from Arizonans with connections to Germany.

Based on the article and comments by Thomas Cook it looks like this will operate during the winter

Boyd said airline officials see similarities between Phoenix and Las Vegas in how Condor could expand its service here. They see Europeans being interested in Phoenix as place to begin a trip around the Southwestern U.S., and they think Phoenix residents may be interested in winter trips to Germany’s Christmas markets.

Also seeing how SAN got LH after DE served for 2 years, maybe this could mark a return and hopefully they can coexist. Thoughts?

Year-round? Yes, I'd certainly think that's a possibility. But...for LH to come in along with DE? No way. See my post above, which I neglected to say was from the perspective of LH replacing DE.

cathay747 wrote:

I would tend to doubt that. For one thing, DE's cost-structure is lower than LH's; I never looked at what DE's fares were, but I'm sure they were lower than what LH could offer, and that had to have played a role in DE's better-than-expected success. Plus there's still the issue of LH not really having an aircraft right-sized for this market; I believe that LH's A330's come closest in terms of capacity to DE's 763's, but they're more premium-heavy than DE, and I'm thinking that would be the killer for LH. Cost-wise, LH could use Eurowings, but then we're talking A340's, which I'm thinking is just too big for this market given the lack of feed they'd get here; they'd have to rely totally on O&D traffic like DE .

Of course I could be totally wrong. We'll just have to wait and see.

I agree, but it could be a different story when LH starts taking 789s in 2022. That might be the aircraft that's well-suited to operating in PHX, because I don't believe they currently have one that's right-sized and can make the economics work. The passenger numbers have always been there — Germans love Arizona, but LAS or LAX has always been the more attractive option. A few years ago, I needed a rebooking in FRA after my UA flight canceled, and the LH CSR actually had to find Phoenix on a map. If DE is what starts to put PHX on the map, then maybe LH can capitalize, assuming they have the right equipment to do so.

4holer wrote:

skyharborshome wrote:

[threeid][/threeid]

910A wrote:

Getting ready for fire season? Out for a walk at about 9am and the DC-10 fire tanker flew over me while landing at IWA. Apparently came in from ABQ.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/T91 ... /KABQ/KIWA

We were flying to Tucson on Saturday and getting close to Pinal I said "whoa, something big just took off from MZJ." Turns out it was the 747 Global Super Tanker. It did a 180 and did a simulated water drop rjust east of the airport. Was very cool to see that in person. Wish I could attach the video.

One of my filters on FR24 is for 747s so I see its flights and it has been doing those for the past several days.

...And it is doing so again at this moment.

atcsundevil wrote:

cathay747 wrote:

I would tend to doubt that. For one thing, DE's cost-structure is lower than LH's; I never looked at what DE's fares were, but I'm sure they were lower than what LH could offer, and that had to have played a role in DE's better-than-expected success. Plus there's still the issue of LH not really having an aircraft right-sized for this market; I believe that LH's A330's come closest in terms of capacity to DE's 763's, but they're more premium-heavy than DE, and I'm thinking that would be the killer for LH. Cost-wise, LH could use Eurowings, but then we're talking A340's, which I'm thinking is just too big for this market given the lack of feed they'd get here; they'd have to rely totally on O&D traffic like DE .

Of course I could be totally wrong. We'll just have to wait and see.

I agree, but it could be a different story when LH starts taking 789s in 2022. That might be the aircraft that's well-suited to operating in PHX, because I don't believe they currently have one that's right-sized and can make the economics work. The passenger numbers have always been there — Germans love Arizona, but LAS or LAX has always been the more attractive option. A few years ago, I needed a rebooking in FRA after my UA flight canceled, and the LH CSR actually had to find Phoenix on a map. If DE is what starts to put PHX on the map, then maybe LH can capitalize, assuming they have the right equipment to do so.

Agreed, the 789's could be the game-changer in this equation. And given that LH bought back into DE, it could turn out that they agree for DE to continue for now and develop market, then later on have LH take it over.

The British Airways Negus retro scheme is operating BA289 and BA288 today. https://flightaware.com/live/flight/GCIVB

Looks like 27MAR2020 will be the day that PHX loses its 747 service. BA is planning to change its daily LHR-PHX flight from a 744 to a 77W. I can't say we didn't see it coming.
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-07apr19/

At least it's not a 77E or a 787. It bodes well that BA has "upgraded" to a more premium heavy airplane based on the percentage of seats.

777PHX wrote:

At least it's not a 77E or a 787. It bodes well that BA has "upgraded" to a more premium heavy airplane based on the percentage of seats.

I'm surprised as hell at this. Same # of F, slight increase in J and W, rather large cut in Y compared with our current 744. I wonder if cargo needs are driving this?

Mind this is preliminary and a year off, but still a good indicator of the market need. I guess there's more demand for F than many of us thought.

cathay747 wrote:

777PHX wrote:

At least it's not a 77E or a 787. It bodes well that BA has "upgraded" to a more premium heavy airplane based on the percentage of seats.

I'm surprised as hell at this. Same # of F, slight increase in J and W, rather large cut in Y compared with our current 744. I wonder if cargo needs are driving this?

Mind this is preliminary and a year off, but still a good indicator of the market need. I guess there's more demand for F than many of us thought.

I always figured the route did pretty well because of the high fares and the fact that frequent flyer tickets were non-existent. Plus, they never downgauged it from a 747 and they started the second flight, which has now gone to AA metal.

777PHX wrote:

cathay747 wrote:

777PHX wrote:

At least it's not a 77E or a 787. It bodes well that BA has "upgraded" to a more premium heavy airplane based on the percentage of seats.

I'm surprised as hell at this. Same # of F, slight increase in J and W, rather large cut in Y compared with our current 744. I wonder if cargo needs are driving this?

Mind this is preliminary and a year off, but still a good indicator of the market need. I guess there's more demand for F than many of us thought.

I always figured the route did pretty well because of the high fares and the fact that frequent flyer tickets were non-existent. Plus, they never downgauged it from a 747 and they started the second flight, which has now gone to AA metal.

All of the above. This is not a marginal route for BA. With the JV and hubs on both ends, great to see this go 77W vs something "smaller."

Definitely very surprised as well, I was sure it would switch to A35K eventually because of the perceived low First demand. Did not expect the extra 77W capacity with the new deliveries to be going to PHX. The downside of this is, at least initially, PHX won't get the new Club World (at least not every day) while the new seat is being rolled out.

airzona11 wrote:

777PHX wrote:

cathay747 wrote:

I'm surprised as hell at this. Same # of F, slight increase in J and W, rather large cut in Y compared with our current 744. I wonder if cargo needs are driving this?

Mind this is preliminary and a year off, but still a good indicator of the market need. I guess there's more demand for F than many of us thought.

I always figured the route did pretty well because of the high fares and the fact that frequent flyer tickets were non-existent. Plus, they never downgauged it from a 747 and they started the second flight, which has now gone to AA metal.

All of the above. This is not a marginal route for BA. With the JV and hubs on both ends, great to see this go 77W vs something "smaller."

I know it's not a marginal route for them...my surprise, mainly, is that they're going to use an aircraft with a F cabin. I'm sure the increase in J and W capacity will be taken up no problem; from what I've seen there's plenty of demand for J & W.

QF7 about to land on a diversion from DFW because of weather.