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atcsundevil
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 02, 2019 6:23 pm

BA744PHX wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
AntonioMartin wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong, but...aren't Condor and Eurowings part of the Lufthansa Group both? And...I wonder how this will affect Condor's Phoenix flights?

Condor is not part of the Lufthansa Group. They used to be, and they might be again now that Thomas Cook is putting them up for sale, but they aren't currently owned by LH. If/when LH buys them, then there may be some changes.

Does anyone else think Condor may pull out? when LH entered both AUS & SAN they cancelled service, I know EW is still not LH but part of LH Group, what are your thoughts?

I think they probably will pull out at some point. At the very least, so much capacity is going to kill the yields. It's easier for Condor to just move on to another market. If LH buys them as it seems they might, I would expect EW longhaul to fold into Condor anyway.

The question is whether or not LH will return to PHX though. I'm still of the opinion that LH doesn't currently operate the right type of aircraft to serve the market profitably, so I think that's probably their biggest hurdle. EW can probably make the A343 work given their lower operating costs, but it'll be harder to make it work for LH. That was the same problem LH had 15+ years ago. If they had the 787, it would be a totally different story. However, the A359 is probably too big, and anything else is likely either too large or too inefficient. I'm not so sure the PHX market has matured enough to support LH just yet.
 
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 02, 2019 6:44 pm

atcsundevil wrote:

The question is whether or not LH will return to PHX though. I'm still of the opinion that LH doesn't currently operate the right type of aircraft to serve the market profitably, so I think that's probably their biggest hurdle. EW can probably make the A343 work given their lower operating costs, but it'll be harder to make it work for LH. That was the same problem LH had 15+ years ago. If they had the 787, it would be a totally different story. However, the A359 is probably too big, and anything else is likely either too large or too inefficient. I'm not so sure the PHX market has matured enough to support LH just yet.



Why would the a359 be too big?

I understand that out of all the places to send the a359, they probably wouldn't want to 'waste' it on PHX, but offering some capacity on a star alliance carrier directly to Europe where you don't need to connect on United or try and get a decent connection on AC is (I would think) quite appealing.
 
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:19 pm

alasizon wrote:
Some of it is high temp related for sure during the middle of the day but there have been a good handful of flights using it in AM as well when it is still in the 90s. I think part of it has to do with the construction going on at the Southwest hangar and not wanting to send planes down Romeo as I'm only seeing it while on West flow.


Looks like Romeo is blocked off near 25R, so there probably isn’t as much room to put the planes. Or at least it looked like Romeo was blocked off when I left earlier this week.

I’ll take it though. It can save some time when leaving on AA!
 
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:48 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
Condor is not part of the Lufthansa Group. They used to be, and they might be again now that Thomas Cook is putting them up for sale, but they aren't currently owned by LH. If/when LH buys them, then there may be some changes.

Does anyone else think Condor may pull out? when LH entered both AUS & SAN they cancelled service, I know EW is still not LH but part of LH Group, what are your thoughts?

I think they probably will pull out at some point. At the very least, so much capacity is going to kill the yields. It's easier for Condor to just move on to another market. If LH buys them as it seems they might, I would expect EW longhaul to fold into Condor anyway.

The question is whether or not LH will return to PHX though. I'm still of the opinion that LH doesn't currently operate the right type of aircraft to serve the market profitably, so I think that's probably their biggest hurdle. EW can probably make the A343 work given their lower operating costs, but it'll be harder to make it work for LH. That was the same problem LH had 15+ years ago. If they had the 787, it would be a totally different story. However, the A359 is probably too big, and anything else is likely either too large or too inefficient. I'm not so sure the PHX market has matured enough to support LH just yet.


I was thinking the same, however with EW at 5 flights and DE at 3 flights, its only 8 seasonal flights a per week. Now if EW was year around then I think DE would pull out. When LH announced both AUS & SAN they pulled out before LH started, maybe DE might stay as this would be there 3rd year of service. Both AUS & SAN only lasted 1 season
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:16 pm

kimimm19 wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:

The question is whether or not LH will return to PHX though. I'm still of the opinion that LH doesn't currently operate the right type of aircraft to serve the market profitably, so I think that's probably their biggest hurdle. EW can probably make the A343 work given their lower operating costs, but it'll be harder to make it work for LH. That was the same problem LH had 15+ years ago. If they had the 787, it would be a totally different story. However, the A359 is probably too big, and anything else is likely either too large or too inefficient. I'm not so sure the PHX market has matured enough to support LH just yet.



Why would the a359 be too big?

I understand that out of all the places to send the a359, they probably wouldn't want to 'waste' it on PHX, but offering some capacity on a star alliance carrier directly to Europe where you don't need to connect on United or try and get a decent connection on AC is (I would think) quite appealing.


LH has two versions of the A359. If we presume LH isn't going to send the more premium configuration here, that's 320 seats. That's a pretty big airplane.

As someone alluded to above, LH really doesn't have the aircraft at the smaller end of the widebody spectrum to test out questionable new routes with. The smallest widebody without first class(again, avoiding the most premium configurations) that LH has is 255 pax and that's the A333.
 
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:29 pm

PhilMcCrackin wrote:
kimimm19 wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:

The question is whether or not LH will return to PHX though. I'm still of the opinion that LH doesn't currently operate the right type of aircraft to serve the market profitably, so I think that's probably their biggest hurdle. EW can probably make the A343 work given their lower operating costs, but it'll be harder to make it work for LH. That was the same problem LH had 15+ years ago. If they had the 787, it would be a totally different story. However, the A359 is probably too big, and anything else is likely either too large or too inefficient. I'm not so sure the PHX market has matured enough to support LH just yet.



Why would the a359 be too big?

I understand that out of all the places to send the a359, they probably wouldn't want to 'waste' it on PHX, but offering some capacity on a star alliance carrier directly to Europe where you don't need to connect on United or try and get a decent connection on AC is (I would think) quite appealing.


LH has two versions of the A359. If we presume LH isn't going to send the more premium configuration here, that's 320 seats. That's a pretty big airplane.

As someone alluded to above, LH really doesn't have the aircraft at the smaller end of the widebody spectrum to test out questionable new routes with. The smallest widebody without first class(again, avoiding the most premium configurations) that LH has is 255 pax and that's the A333.

And I'm pretty sure the A333 doesn't have the legs for PHX-FRA, certainly not in the summer. The A332 would work, but alas, LH ain't got 'em.

The A359 is definitely too much airplane though. I think they're all (or at least mostly) MUC based anyway.
 
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:52 pm

cathay747 wrote:
alasizon wrote:
NolaMD88fan wrote:

DE has jumped ship at both SAN and AUS when the LH group started up service. I'd expect the same thing to happen at PHX and ANC. Especially with EW offering 5x weekly service to PHX.


I actually expect DE to try and fight this one out for the first year. If they don't gain traction, then they will likely bail after the first year. DE expanded the service season for 2020 and I would think they wouldn't want to walk away from that.

The schedule could be interesting with the 767, A332 & 772 on the ground all simultaneously when combined with the existing schedule from AA, Y4 & WS (assuming AC will be in T3 at this point). Thankfully they aren't flying on Saturday but there could be some real issues with gate space if anything runs late/early.


I would agree with you on all points. Especially since DE offers a business class product and EW doesn't/will not. Ironically I just watched in the past few days a new vid by YouTube reviewer Josh Cahill where he took the PHX-FRA flight on DE in business class and I have to say, it's one hella nice product for a leisure carrier.


EW's long-haul business class offering appears superior to DE's on just about every measure except the price premium.
 
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:56 pm

Could an A330 do the route FRA-PHX-FRA?
 
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:59 pm

georgiabill wrote:
Could an A330 do the route FRA-PHX-FRA?

It will starting April 2020
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:23 pm

georgiabill wrote:
Could an A330 do the route FRA-PHX-FRA?

The A332, yes. Probably not the A333 though.
 
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:50 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
PhilMcCrackin wrote:
kimimm19 wrote:


Why would the a359 be too big?

I understand that out of all the places to send the a359, they probably wouldn't want to 'waste' it on PHX, but offering some capacity on a star alliance carrier directly to Europe where you don't need to connect on United or try and get a decent connection on AC is (I would think) quite appealing.


LH has two versions of the A359. If we presume LH isn't going to send the more premium configuration here, that's 320 seats. That's a pretty big airplane.

As someone alluded to above, LH really doesn't have the aircraft at the smaller end of the widebody spectrum to test out questionable new routes with. The smallest widebody without first class(again, avoiding the most premium configurations) that LH has is 255 pax and that's the A333.

And I'm pretty sure the A333 doesn't have the legs for PHX-FRA, certainly not in the summer. The A332 would work, but alas, LH ain't got 'em.

The A359 is definitely too much airplane though. I think they're all (or at least mostly) MUC based anyway.


Is there a figure to support these claims of the a359 being too big?

Surely LH with their FRA feed could fill it.
 
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:38 am

kimimm19 wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
PhilMcCrackin wrote:

LH has two versions of the A359. If we presume LH isn't going to send the more premium configuration here, that's 320 seats. That's a pretty big airplane.

As someone alluded to above, LH really doesn't have the aircraft at the smaller end of the widebody spectrum to test out questionable new routes with. The smallest widebody without first class(again, avoiding the most premium configurations) that LH has is 255 pax and that's the A333.

And I'm pretty sure the A333 doesn't have the legs for PHX-FRA, certainly not in the summer. The A332 would work, but alas, LH ain't got 'em.

The A359 is definitely too much airplane though. I think they're all (or at least mostly) MUC based anyway.


Is there a figure to support these claims of the a359 being too big?

Surely LH with their FRA feed could fill it.


I don't think the comment means too big, rather, it's the newest in the fleet, and sending it to a mostly leisure destination is a waste of what could be considered the flagship product.

Regarding A333, I believe it was written about here before. A333 would be ok in the cooler months, but would struggle if full in the higher temperature months. Whereas the A332 would work year round.
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:28 am

chrisair wrote:
alasizon wrote:
Some of it is high temp related for sure during the middle of the day but there have been a good handful of flights using it in AM as well when it is still in the 90s. I think part of it has to do with the construction going on at the Southwest hangar and not wanting to send planes down Romeo as I'm only seeing it while on West flow.


Looks like Romeo is blocked off near 25R, so there probably isn’t as much room to put the planes. Or at least it looked like Romeo was blocked off when I left earlier this week.

I’ll take it though. It can save some time when leaving on AA!


Romeo is actually closing tomorrow for two months for concrete replacement on the north side and Southwest hangar tie-in work on the south side. It'll likely shift some more flights to 26. Even tonight, every AA departure after 2030 was off 26 and normally that wouldn't happen till like 2200.
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:30 am

Official CAMP report is out.

https://www.skyharbor.com/docs/default- ... 73516889_4

Edit: Note, the download repeatedly timed out on me due to issues with the city site so it could be hard to read since it is 500+ pages.
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AntonioMartin
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:01 am

Wonder if this growth in international airlines will continue or if we will hit yet another wall...(as in the past after 9/11 etc which was not PHX's fault but still it was a wall hit)
 
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:41 am

alasizon wrote:
Official CAMP report is out.

https://www.skyharbor.com/docs/default- ... 73516889_4

Edit: Note, the download repeatedly timed out on me due to issues with the city site so it could be hard to read since it is 500+ pages.


Im experiencing this now lol
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:18 am

BA744PHX wrote:
alasizon wrote:
Official CAMP report is out.

https://www.skyharbor.com/docs/default- ... 73516889_4

Edit: Note, the download repeatedly timed out on me due to issues with the city site so it could be hard to read since it is 500+ pages.


Im experiencing this now lol


I downloaded the PDF and just had to hit restart the three times it timed out and it worked fine. There were only two graphics that ended up producing errors when I went to those pages.

AntonioMartin wrote:
Wonder if this growth in international airlines will continue or if we will hit yet another wall...(as in the past after 9/11 etc which was not PHX's fault but still it was a wall hit)

Without more FIS capable gates, it is going to stall quickly and I'm very disappointed that no part of the CAMP project addressed the fact that the gates are already maxed out from 1300-2100. Converting N4 to all FIS capable is theoretically possible but AA would need gate compensation in exchange which would push the need to expedite the T3N2 project.
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:40 am

alasizon wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:
alasizon wrote:
Official CAMP report is out.

https://www.skyharbor.com/docs/default- ... 73516889_4

Edit: Note, the download repeatedly timed out on me due to issues with the city site so it could be hard to read since it is 500+ pages.


Im experiencing this now lol


I downloaded the PDF and just had to hit restart the three times it timed out and it worked fine. There were only two graphics that ended up producing errors when I went to those pages.

AntonioMartin wrote:
Wonder if this growth in international airlines will continue or if we will hit yet another wall...(as in the past after 9/11 etc which was not PHX's fault but still it was a wall hit)

Without more FIS capable gates, it is going to stall quickly and I'm very disappointed that no part of the CAMP project addressed the fact that the gates are already maxed out from 1300-2100. Converting N4 to all FIS capable is theoretically possible but AA would need gate compensation in exchange which would push the need to expedite the T3N2 project.


Looking at the 20+ outlook I would assume AA would remain in T4 and take over all South Concourse and WN moving to West Terminal. This would be the only way for AA to continue International flying
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alasizon
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:07 am

BA744PHX wrote:
alasizon wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:

Im experiencing this now lol


I downloaded the PDF and just had to hit restart the three times it timed out and it worked fine. There were only two graphics that ended up producing errors when I went to those pages.

AntonioMartin wrote:
Wonder if this growth in international airlines will continue or if we will hit yet another wall...(as in the past after 9/11 etc which was not PHX's fault but still it was a wall hit)

Without more FIS capable gates, it is going to stall quickly and I'm very disappointed that no part of the CAMP project addressed the fact that the gates are already maxed out from 1300-2100. Converting N4 to all FIS capable is theoretically possible but AA would need gate compensation in exchange which would push the need to expedite the T3N2 project.


Looking at the 20+ outlook I would assume AA would remain in T4 and take over all South Concourse and WN moving to West Terminal. This would be the only way for AA to continue International flying


20+ that certainly makes sense but FIS capacity is a now need (the proposed West terminal layout also has some deficiencies when it comes to supporting multiple airlines as they only carved out space for a single small BSO and two sets of ticket counters)

I'm pretty sure the new city use agreement on the common use gates also gives priority to a seasonal international widebody over a year round international RJ or narrowbody which is already going to place a damper on some of the Mexico flying if Condor and Eurowings both stick around due to gate availability. Take three gates out of the equation (B23, B25 & B28) and you're left with only four gates to squeeze in the seven PM arrivals from Mexico and the PM WS turn which isn't going to be pretty.

They also classified B15A, B15B and B15C as all CR9 capable in their ramp charts but there are only two gates there now and only one is CR9 capable (and they deemed all the RJ gates as E175 capable despite only two being such). WN is looking like they aren't going to give up S4 for conversion to common-use as I had hoped (move WS down there and make them run a split operation in the Winter) despite the fact WN won't need it once S1 opens.
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:37 pm

Anybody know why a Southwest -76N went to MZJ today. Reg is N7701B. Also got to see an Air Canada Max go over also headed there.
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WN732
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:45 am

TUSPHX wrote:
Anybody know why a Southwest -76N went to MZJ today. Reg is N7701B. Also got to see an Air Canada Max go over also headed there.


This is one of the birds that are being retired as they are coming off lease. Picked up during the AirTran merger. I believe they are going to UA?
 
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:19 pm

Even though I drove by GYR last Sat. and didn't see them, it turns out, per the thread "737MAX Storage, Where are they?", UA has 14 737MAX's parked there. Was on MC-85 so maybe from there they weren't visible given that I was driving, so will try driving by on Bullard and see if you can see them from that vantage point. All I noticed that was different from my last drive-by was that one of the HA 763's is over at the hangar with doors open (presumably being prepped for parting-out), a SN A330 engineless out on the field, and now 2 LY aircraft on the field, looked like 763's but not sure.
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wn676
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:10 am

WN732 wrote:
TUSPHX wrote:
Anybody know why a Southwest -76N went to MZJ today. Reg is N7701B. Also got to see an Air Canada Max go over also headed there.


This is one of the birds that are being retired as they are coming off lease. Picked up during the AirTran merger. I believe they are going to UA?


Don’t think that this particular aircraft is going to UA, unless they’re acquiring additional frames on top of those already identified.
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
 
colemcandrew
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:29 pm

Does anyone know when Romeo reopens? It is perfect time for spotting at either terminal 3 or 4 at this time thanks to romeo being closed, as you’re able to get literally any AA, or international departure as they will taxi Sierra to get to the south side of the field or just use the north side, and it’s be helpful to know.
 
alasizon
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:40 pm

colemcandrew wrote:
Does anyone know when Romeo reopens? It is perfect time for spotting at either terminal 3 or 4 at this time thanks to romeo being closed, as you’re able to get literally any AA, or international departure as they will taxi Sierra to get to the south side of the field or just use the north side, and it’s be helpful to know.


Romeo will reopen roughly October 24th but it could open a day or two earlier if they finish getting the striping and widening/sealing done earlier.
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colemcandrew
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:54 pm

alasizon wrote:
colemcandrew wrote:
Does anyone know when Romeo reopens? It is perfect time for spotting at either terminal 3 or 4 at this time thanks to romeo being closed, as you’re able to get literally any AA, or international departure as they will taxi Sierra to get to the south side of the field or just use the north side, and it’s be helpful to know.


Romeo will reopen roughly October 24th but it could open a day or two earlier if they finish getting the striping and widening/sealing done earlier.

Thanks for letting me know. Gotta get everything from T3/T4 on Sierra/Tango while we can :)
 
alasizon
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:41 am

colemcandrew wrote:
alasizon wrote:
colemcandrew wrote:
Does anyone know when Romeo reopens? It is perfect time for spotting at either terminal 3 or 4 at this time thanks to romeo being closed, as you’re able to get literally any AA, or international departure as they will taxi Sierra to get to the south side of the field or just use the north side, and it’s be helpful to know.


Romeo will reopen roughly October 24th but it could open a day or two earlier if they finish getting the striping and widening/sealing done earlier.

Thanks for letting me know. Gotta get everything from T3/T4 on Sierra/Tango while we can :)


Widebodies will stay on the Sierra/Tango side for a little bit longer due to the work at the Southwest hangar restricting Romeo to 171' or smaller
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colemcandrew
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:09 am

alasizon wrote:
colemcandrew wrote:
alasizon wrote:

Romeo will reopen roughly October 24th but it could open a day or two earlier if they finish getting the striping and widening/sealing done earlier.

Thanks for letting me know. Gotta get everything from T3/T4 on Sierra/Tango while we can :)


Widebodies will stay on the Sierra/Tango side for a little bit longer due to the work at the Southwest hangar restricting Romeo to 171' or smaller

Perfect. All works great considering haze is starting to get better, (as in less haze), so 08/26 departures aren’t a problem, same with toplighting, and if they use the south side of the field you get sierra/tango which is always amazing. Thanks for letting me know!
 
colemcandrew
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:44 am

cathay747 wrote:
Even though I drove by GYR last Sat. and didn't see them, it turns out, per the thread "737MAX Storage, Where are they?", UA has 14 737MAX's parked there. Was on MC-85 so maybe from there they weren't visible given that I was driving, so will try driving by on Bullard and see if you can see them from that vantage point. All I noticed that was different from my last drive-by was that one of the HA 763's is over at the hangar with doors open (presumably being prepped for parting-out), a SN A330 engineless out on the field, and now 2 LY aircraft on the field, looked like 763's but not sure.

Extremely late reply, but they are visible from South bullard Avenue, just south of Yuma Road, you can go drive onto the dirt road area and down close to the fence and get pretty up close to the maxes out there. They are parked in the dirt over where planes rot and “die” if you will

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