ncflyer wrote:

Mainline service CLE-DTW is very irregular. None right now for instance. This summer there are two 717s scheduled from CLE-DTW, three CRJ900's. (CVG has 6 frequencies but no mainline and CMH has 7 frequencies but no mainline). Not sure where you are getting your information from but I sure can't recall an MD90 on CLE-DTW in the recent past. I don't think CLE saw that much of a pickup when CAK-DTW terminated.


It is a great mystery to me why an airline like AA (and at the time USAirways) can have 8-10 large mainline planes a day CLT to RDU, a route that is so short it can't have any O/D, yet Delta has so little capacity from Detroit to Ohio. I think it's the biggest head scratcher on CVG since the Delta ties are so strong in the two cities and they aren't easily drivable.

flymco753 wrote:

cvgComair wrote:

Now that the A220s are coming in and B717s are finally being shifted east, it will be interesting to see what routes they upguage at CVG. I'd imagine we will see more B717s than A220s, but hopefully both make appearances. Seems like CVG-DTW/MSP/NYC/BOS/Texas would be the best chances for more mainline.

CVG-DTW could probably use some 717's. I don't see why they can't do 1 or 2 even during the winter months. They fly A321's to MKE and MD-90's to CLE.

I've heard CMH-DTW is more frequency-driven, which may be why there are 7 dailies on a random day chosen in June but on nothing bigger than an E175. If they'd trade frequency for an upgauge (I'm looking at you, two CRJ-200 flights), it might bring mainline in.

Passenger Traffic continues climb at Toledo airport

https://www.toledoblade.com/local/trans ... 0190110062

“Buoyed by growing service to and from Charlotte, air travel through Toledo Express Airport increased by more than 22 percent during 2018 for its sixth straight year of growth, according to data released Wednesday by the Toledo-Lucas County Port Authority.

And with American Eagle now flying bigger planes on the Toledo-Charlotte route than it did a year ago, airport manager Joe Rotterdam was confident 2019 will be another growth year for the local airport regardless of how ongoing efforts to develop new or expanded service bear immediate fruit.

“We are working toward an evening departure” on the Charlotte route, which now flies south from Toledo only in the morning and early afternoon, Mr. Rotterdam said.”

Another good year for TOL. Will get the numbers posted next week. Hopefully we can see something new in 2019!

Rumors that AA is looking to add even more service to its LAX hub, particularly from the mid-west. Would love to see DAY-LAX service resumed (formerly on PI). Also heard that CMH-LAX might get an additional flight.

bigred10k wrote:

Rumors that AA is looking to add even more service to its LAX hub, particularly from the mid-west. Would love to see DAY-LAX service resumed (formerly on PI). Also heard that CMH-LAX might get an additional flight.

Part of DAY's marketing package to airlines a few years ago was they had the PDEW to support an LAX flight. I'd also love to see it. I figure that's too rich for the E175's blood range-wise, so it would take an A319, but...maybe there's a way?

AA 3x CMH-LAX would be remarkable as well. What's the timeframe on when this might happen?

CVG-LAX/PHX on AA are long over due. Hopefully the A319s coming in are a sign that these routes could become possible.

DeltaRules wrote:

bigred10k wrote:

Rumors that AA is looking to add even more service to its LAX hub, particularly from the mid-west. Would love to see DAY-LAX service resumed (formerly on PI). Also heard that CMH-LAX might get an additional flight.

Part of DAY's marketing package to airlines a few years ago was they had the PDEW to support an LAX flight. I'd also love to see it. I figure that's too rich for the E175's blood range-wise, so it would take an A319, but...maybe there's a way?

LAX is too far from DAY to be able to be served on a regional jet, and LAX-DAY is longer than the longest nonstop routes that are currently operated on E-175 regional jets such as PDX-DAL, SFO-MSN, SFO-STL, SEA-DAL, and SEA-MKE.

The easternmost states within the range of E-175 regional jets from LAX include Wisconsin, Illinois, the westernmost portion of Kentucky, western Tennessee, and Mississippi.

On the other hand, CVG-PHX and DAY-PHX are both within the range of E-175 regional jets, and both CVG-PHX and DAY-PHX are shorter than the PDX-DAL, SFO-MSN, SFO-STL, SEA-DAL, and SEA-MKE nonstop routes.

Allegiant has added CVG to ORF service beginning June 7th with 2x/week service. Interesting route, but its only 2x/wk so you never know. It will be interesting to see if they can stimulate leisure traffic like they did with the other costal cities like VPS/MYR/CHS/SAV/etc. BNA-ORF/SYR (and now GRR) seem to be working pretty well, so hopefully they can make more of these kinds of routes work.

FYI--CLE served 9.64 million passengers in 2018, a 5.5% increase over 2017.

https://www.cleveland.com/business/2019 ... years.html

CVG finally posted traffic number through to November. Pax traffic is up 13.77% YTD. Looks like CVG will finish the year at ~8.9 million pax, numbers not seen since before 2010.

http://cvgairport.com/docs/default-sour ... ?sfvrsn=16

flyguy89 wrote:

CVG finally posted traffic number through to November. Pax traffic is up 13.77% YTD. Looks like CVG will finish the year at ~8.9 million pax, numbers not seen since before 2010.

http://cvgairport.com/docs/default-sour ... ?sfvrsn=16

Posted this back a little ways. CVG reported that final total is 8.8 million with exact numbers to come soon.

As a CMH area resident, I am very happy that United is starting service from SFO, Delta from SLC, and Alaska from SEA this year. CMH is a quickly growing airport and the new terminal and runway setup works well. Hopefully one day we get something larger than a 737/A320 but it seems this market is so frequency driven.

After reading another thread, it made me curious; when is the last time a 747 landed at CMH? What gate did it use? I remember the last Concorde visit, but not the last 747 stop. Thanks for the information.

StuckinCMHland wrote:

After reading another thread, it made me curious; when is the last time a 747 landed at CMH? What gate did it use? I remember the last Concorde visit, but not the last 747 stop. Thanks for the information.

Excluding AF1, there are photos on another spotting site (can't remember which) of a UA 744 which was a 2002 BCS title game charter. It parked at C47 (judging from the angle of the photo), which makes sense as DL moved to C52-56 by then once the C extension opened. ATA also brought in multiple L-1011s (which parked at B23) and there was an Omni (or World) DC-10 for the same game on top of all that. I'll see if I can find them.

Pudelhund wrote:

As a CMH area resident, I am very happy that United is starting service from SFO, Delta from SLC, and Alaska from SEA this year. CMH is a quickly growing airport and the new terminal and runway setup works well. Hopefully one day we get something larger than a 737/A320 but it seems this market is so frequency driven.

Looks like you're new here, so welcome in! It seems like the metal being used on the new services are in line with what other airports in the region are getting and AS alluded to an upgauge if all goes well, so it'll be interesting to see.

StuckinCMHland wrote:

After reading another thread, it made me curious; when is the last time a 747 landed at CMH? What gate did it use? I remember the last Concorde visit, but not the last 747 stop. Thanks for the information.

I know Air Force One landed with Obama in 2010 and I believe again in 2012.

cvgComair wrote:

flyguy89 wrote:

CVG finally posted traffic number through to November. Pax traffic is up 13.77% YTD. Looks like CVG will finish the year at ~8.9 million pax, numbers not seen since before 2010.

http://cvgairport.com/docs/default-sour ... ?sfvrsn=16

Posted this back a little ways. CVG reported that final total is 8.8 million with exact numbers to come soon.

Ugh how did I miss that! I'd waiting for it to post forever.

DeltaRules wrote:

StuckinCMHland wrote:

After reading another thread, it made me curious; when is the last time a 747 landed at CMH? What gate did it use? I remember the last Concorde visit, but not the last 747 stop. Thanks for the information.

Excluding AF1, there are photos on another spotting site (can't remember which) of a UA 744 which was a 2002 BCS title game charter. It parked at C47 (judging from the angle of the photo), which makes sense as DL moved to C52-56 by then once the C extension opened. ATA also brought in multiple L-1011s (which parked at B23) and there was an Omni (or World) DC-10 for the same game on top of all that. I'll see if I can find them.

Pudelhund wrote:

As a CMH area resident, I am very happy that United is starting service from SFO, Delta from SLC, and Alaska from SEA this year. CMH is a quickly growing airport and the new terminal and runway setup works well. Hopefully one day we get something larger than a 737/A320 but it seems this market is so frequency driven.

Looks like you're new here, so welcome in! It seems like the metal being used on the new services are in line with what other airports in the region are getting and AS alluded to an upgauge if all goes well, so it'll be interesting to see.

Thank you for your work and reply. I didn't even think about AF1, I guess I should have. Please post the picts if you can find them!

Pudelhund wrote:

StuckinCMHland wrote:

After reading another thread, it made me curious; when is the last time a 747 landed at CMH? What gate did it use? I remember the last Concorde visit, but not the last 747 stop. Thanks for the information.

I know Air Force One landed with Obama in 2010 and I believe again in 2012.

thank you, like I told Deltarules I didn't event think about AF1

NetJets bought 125 pizzas for CMH TSA and ATC: https://www.dispatch.com/business/20190 ... ontrollers

StuckinCMHland wrote:

After reading another thread, it made me curious; when is the last time a 747 landed at CMH? What gate did it use? I remember the last Concorde visit, but not the last 747 stop. Thanks for the information.

Besides AF one, the only time 747's fly out of CMH are for charters. El Al has been in and out a couple of times and bowl game football charters used to use 747's frequently. They mostly gated at the far end of B concourse.

I wonder when CMH traffic numbers get announced. The airport is growing nicely and we have some big new routes this year.

Will CVG ever be renamed as William Howard Taft International Airport? CMH was renamed to John Glenn Columbus International Airport from Port Columbus International Airport back in 2016, and it was announced this week that SDF is going to be renamed as Louisville Muhammad Ali International Airport.

Even though CVG is located in Kentucky, CVG is the main airport for Cincinnati, and the city of Cincinnati is also the hometown of William Howard Taft. I would love to see CVG renamed as William Howard Taft International Airport since (a) William Howard Taft was a former U.S. president, (b) William Howard Taft was a native of Cincinnati, and (c) there are already a few other U.S. airports such as GRR, IAH, LIT, JFK, SPI, DCA, and ICT that are named after former U.S. presidents.

jplatts wrote:

Will CVG ever be renamed as William Howard Taft International Airport? CMH was renamed to John Glenn Columbus International Airport from Port Columbus International Airport back in 2016, and it was announced this week that SDF is going to be renamed as Louisville Muhammad Ali International Airport.

Even though CVG is located in Kentucky, CVG is the main airport for Cincinnati, and the city of Cincinnati is also the hometown of William Howard Taft. I would love to see CVG renamed as William Howard Taft International Airport since (a) William Howard Taft was a former U.S. president, (b) William Howard Taft was a native of Cincinnati, and (c) there are already a few other U.S. airports such as GRR, IAH, LIT, JFK, SPI, DCA, and ICT that are named after former U.S. presidents.

Given that CVG is in Kentucky, I don’t think this is likely. However, I think it would be a really cool if they were to rename the airport after him.

jplatts wrote:

Will CVG ever be renamed as William Howard Taft International Airport? CMH was renamed to John Glenn Columbus International Airport from Port Columbus International Airport back in 2016, and it was announced this week that SDF is going to be renamed as Louisville Muhammad Ali International Airport.

Even though CVG is located in Kentucky, CVG is the main airport for Cincinnati, and the city of Cincinnati is also the hometown of William Howard Taft. I would love to see CVG renamed as William Howard Taft International Airport since (a) William Howard Taft was a former U.S. president, (b) William Howard Taft was a native of Cincinnati, and (c) there are already a few other U.S. airports such as GRR, IAH, LIT, JFK, SPI, DCA, and ICT that are named after former U.S. presidents.

I'm philosophically opposed to airports being named after anyone. But if anything CVG should really be named after Brent Spence, the congressman from Kentucky who was essentially responsible for getting CVG designated as Greater Cincinnati's main airport.

Pudelhund wrote:

I wonder when CMH traffic numbers get announced. The airport is growing nicely and we have some big new routes this year.

CRAA's board meetings are the last Tuesday of the month but, since Nardone took over, the minutes are often out a few days before. One of us usually links them when they come out, but they can be found here: https://columbusairports.com/about-us/l ... nd-minutes

flyguy89 wrote:

I'm philosophically opposed to airports being named after anyone. But if anything CVG should really be named after Brent Spence, the congressman from Kentucky who was essentially responsible for getting CVG designated as Greater Cincinnati's main airport.

I agree with your point, especially since Brent Spence was actually from the Northern Kentucky region. On the other hand, at least two of the airports that are named after former U.S. presidents are located outside of the home states of the former U.S. presidents in question as (a) JFK Airport is located in New York, even though Massachusetts is the home state of John F. Kennedy, and (b) Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport is located adjacent to the District of Columbia in Northern Virginia, even though Ronald Reagan was born in Illinois and even though California was the home state of Ronald Reagan.

CMH numbers are out,

For December, up +8.6% to 666,323

For 2018 in total, up +7.5% to 8,141,656

Over at LCK,

December, down -7.7% to 16,220

2018, up +15.4% to 307,247

Both airports set passenger records individually, and the combined CMH/LCK 2018 total was up +7.7% to 8,448,903

In the past 5 years alone, traffic is up +35%

Full stats begin on page 21 of this PDF - https://columbusairports.com/storage/production/20190118141251-01-22-19-craa-board-preread.pdf

boscmh wrote:

CMH numbers are out,

For December, up +8.6% to 666,323

For 2018 in total, up +7.5% to 8,141,656

Over at LCK,

December, down -7.7% to 16,220

2018, up +15.4% to 307,247

Both airports set passenger records individually, and the combined CMH/LCK 2018 total was up +7.7% to 8,448,903

In the past 5 years alone, traffic is up +35%

Full stats begin on page 21 of this PDF - https://columbusairports.com/storage/production/20190118141251-01-22-19-craa-board-preread.pdf

DL, WN, and UA posted nice gains for December, AA, AC, and G4 slight losses. F9 took a big hit. YOY, everybody but AA (slight dip) and F9 (huge dip) gained. NK ends its first year with 352,647 passengers carried, highest among the ULCCs by about 50k. Keep in mind they came in mid-February, so that number would've been higher over a full year.

I'm waiting for DAY's stats to come out to see how they ended the year.

boscmh wrote:

CMH numbers are out,

For December, up +8.6% to 666,323

For 2018 in total, up +7.5% to 8,141,656

Over at LCK,

December, down -7.7% to 16,220

2018, up +15.4% to 307,247

Both airports set passenger records individually, and the combined CMH/LCK 2018 total was up +7.7% to 8,448,903

In the past 5 years alone, traffic is up +35%

Full stats begin on page 21 of this PDF - https://columbusairports.com/storage/production/20190118141251-01-22-19-craa-board-preread.pdf

35% growth over 5 years is impressive! Keep it up CMH! Here's hoping 2019 sees just as much, if not more, growth

The numbers I saw for CVG in 2018 is 8,756,448 passengers and 1,241,958 in cargo tonnage.

Wow, I never realized how frequently a lot of the big global cargo carriers visit LCK. Does anyone go spotting over there? Any good places to get a view? I live like 20 minutes away.

Pudelhund wrote:

Wow, I never realized how frequently a lot of the big global cargo carriers visit LCK. Does anyone go spotting over there? Any good places to get a view? I live like 20 minutes away.

Reach out to these guys: https://www.facebook.com/CentralOhioSpotters/?ref=br_rs

flyguy89 wrote:

I'm philosophically opposed to airports being named after anyone. But if anything CVG should really be named after Brent Spence, the congressman from Kentucky who was essentially responsible for getting CVG designated as Greater Cincinnati's main airport.

Brent Spence already has the Brent Spence Bridge named after him. That's the one that carries I-71/75 across the Ohio River and needs to be replaced or relieved, sooner rather than later! There are others with both Kentucky and Ohio connections for whom the airport can be named, such as Ruth Lyons, Bob Braun, or George's dad, Nick Clooney.

Pete Rose International Airport. I couldn’t get over the ovation he got at the Cinci all star game a few years back, in spite of his troubles. So, yes I’m being a little sarcastic, but not completely!

Personally, I would vote for U.S. Grant International Airport. President Grant was from Point Pleasant, Ohio, just southeast of Cincinnati.

It's been covered but, for argument's sake, here's a short article summing up CMH/LCK traffic in 2018: https://www.dispatch.com/business/20190 ... s-airports

DeltaRules wrote:

boscmh wrote:

CMH numbers are out,

For December, up +8.6% to 666,323

For 2018 in total, up +7.5% to 8,141,656

Over at LCK,

December, down -7.7% to 16,220

2018, up +15.4% to 307,247

Both airports set passenger records individually, and the combined CMH/LCK 2018 total was up +7.7% to 8,448,903

In the past 5 years alone, traffic is up +35%

Full stats begin on page 21 of this PDF - https://columbusairports.com/storage/production/20190118141251-01-22-19-craa-board-preread.pdf

DL, WN, and UA posted nice gains for December, AA, AC, and G4 slight losses. F9 took a big hit. YOY, everybody but AA (slight dip) and F9 (huge dip) gained. NK ends its first year with 352,647 passengers carried, highest among the ULCCs by about 50k. Keep in mind they came in mid-February, so that number would've been higher over a full year.

I'm waiting for DAY's stats to come out to see how they ended the year.

DAY will be down for the year. It's been steadily decreasing month after month.

Several DTW diversions to
Cvg tonight including a A330 from AMS. Looks like a ground stop in DTW

CRAA put out a release detailing the economic impact of their three airports on the community: https://newshub.columbusairports.com/st ... conomy.pdf

Feels like a normal media release but also something aimed at dangling in front of industry/politicians in the hopes of boosting service.

I sure don't get the point of these economic impact studies. Many of them are very questionable, and even if they aren't I'm left with a "so what". An airport is serving demand in a community, not creating it. An exception might be major hubs for pax or cargo, now this is a business that whose reach is greater than the immediate region.

ncflyer wrote:

I sure don't get the point of these economic impact studies. Many of them are very questionable, and even if they aren't I'm left with a "so what". An airport is serving demand in a community, not creating it. An exception might be major hubs for pax or cargo, now this is a business that whose reach is greater than the immediate region.

I have to strongly disagree with this. Airports can be significant drivers of economic development in an area and are excellent examples of investment with "spillover" impacts. The easiest example of this would be the growth in passengers at CMH, which has far outpaced population growth over the past few years. The local area is not growing at 8%+ population, but the airport is, which indicates the community and visitors increasing their utilization of the facility. In turn, that drives hiring for airport services, increased tourism dollars, etc. which increased tax revenues which help improve the quality of the community etc.

Another example (probably even better) can be found in the area around LCK. What was once a large area of farmland is filled with very large distribution centers employing 1000s of people. Those facilities did not move from elsewhere in the CMH area in most cases. Those companies chose to come here because of the facilities and infrastructure which were available. Returning to passenger service and flights, business and conventions are two major economic drivers which rely on effective air service to reach their potential, in the same was as the distribution facilities.

Regarding CMH and their banner year.. CONGRATS! This is GREAT news and long overdue. I am happy to have contributed to those numbers personally with about 60+ trips out of CMH in '18 and I can't wait to see what Alaska and Spirit do here in '19. On a facility note, when I arrived on Saturday, I noticed AA with two aircraft parked at B19, which I had not seen before. I also noticed an A321 on the late LAX flight, which had actually been cancelled. On the UA side, they seem to be getting very crowded with DEN and ORD mainline. Does anyone have a timeline of the facility use study which has been contracted? Will be very interesting to see what gets proposed. They are also moving forward with early work on the consolidated rental car facility (according to the Jan CRAA agenda). Will be interesting to see how the trends in rental car use impact that facility and the design.

I'm not saying CMH/LCK haven't had a great run, they have (so have CLE, PIT, CVG by the way). I'm saying I don't get what these economic impact studies accomplish, other than brochure graphics. I'll take it even one step further to say they are almost always paid for by the agency being studied, so guess who the person being hired is trying to please? There's a wee bit of a conflict of interest there.

Airports grow when the regional economy is good, when population grows, when carriers such as Spirit introduce fares which stimulate traffic. CMH may get a touch of benefit by the shrinking of DAY and CAK. Hub airports have a more complex equation.

DeltaRules wrote:

Excluding AF1, there are photos on another spotting site (can't remember which) of a UA 744 which was a 2002 BCS title game charter. It parked at C47 (judging from the angle of the photo), which makes sense as DL moved to C52-56 by then once the C extension opened. ATA also brought in multiple L-1011s (which parked at B23) and there was an Omni (or World) DC-10 for the same game on top of all that. I'll see if I can find them.

NW brought in a couple 742s as well. Omni and World both came in. Transmeridian, Miami Air, Planet were there also. I have a huge album from that week on an external HDD.

Amazon has almost completed the tear down of the former Airborne sort buildings B & C at ILN. Looks like things are progressing towards Prime Air flights this summer.

ncflyer wrote:

I'm not saying CMH/LCK haven't had a great run, they have (so have CLE, PIT, CVG by the way). I'm saying I don't get what these economic impact studies accomplish, other than brochure graphics. I'll take it even one step further to say they are almost always paid for by the agency being studied, so guess who the person being hired is trying to please? There's a wee bit of a conflict of interest there.

Airports grow when the regional economy is good, when population grows, when carriers such as Spirit introduce fares which stimulate traffic. CMH may get a touch of benefit by the shrinking of DAY and CAK. Hub airports have a more complex equation.

NC, IMO it is the old saying "you have to sell yourself, nobody else will."

Just like if you go into any motel you will find a place with dozens or hundreds of flyers for every attraction, eatery. or event under the sun in the local area, CMH and any other large business has to sell themselves The governments, politicians, other businesses, and even the public who could care less about CMH need to be sold on supporting CMH, or any other airport, that they a viable operation and a positive good to the community around them. This is one way they make their own PR too, getting an article in local papers and web sites to pay them attention.

Also, if Fly Columbus is serious about a TATL flight, or expanding non-stops other places, they have to try and justify that the airport is able to support it, and that politicians are willing to suck up local resident's tax money to subsidize it. the PR article is part of the process.

You would think that any serious organization looking into CMH for any reason will take ten seconds to read the cover, then start doing serious work.

Looking at numbers, CVG's connecting passengers are down to 7%, with 93% O&D. That puts DL's connecting passengers at just over 10%. Pretty crazy to think that it used to be 85% connecting and 15% O&D. Only a matter of years ago DL was seeing 30% connecting passengers, which means they have been filling a lot more seats with local passengers.

Cargo was definitely a little disappointing this year, although growth was 20%, the last half of the year was pretty much flat. With Amazon maxed out, there is not much growth that can happen until their facility opens. DHL should see some increases, but I don't think cargo will increase much in 2019.

What are the odds of CMH-LGA being upgauged to a mainline A220 in the future in light of our growth? I do this flight half a dozen times a year and it is always packed.

TOL had a G4 flight get stuck in a snow drift: http://www.wtol.com/2019/01/29/toledo-e ... now-drift/

DeltaRules wrote:

TOL had a G4 flight get stuck in a snow drift: http://www.wtol.com/2019/01/29/toledo-e ... now-drift/

Media....it was attempting to do a 180 on the runway to exit the runway and slid into the unplowed part of the pavement. It was barely in it...that part of the runway was very icy and was best to just stop if able. Really much a do about nothing....Safer to move the plane via tug than on it's own.

Pudelhund wrote:

What are the odds of CMH-LGA being upgauged to a mainline A220 in the future in light of our growth? I do this flight half a dozen times a year and it is always packed.

Can someone upgage everything that leaves CMH for somewhere warm so we can get on it?

StuckinCMHland wrote:

Pudelhund wrote:

What are the odds of CMH-LGA being upgauged to a mainline A220 in the future in light of our growth? I do this flight half a dozen times a year and it is always packed.

Can someone upgage everything that leaves CMH for somewhere warm so we can get on it?

Honestly if Southwest had a premium cabin I would fly them 90% of the time.