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User avatar
boscmh
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:49 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:53 am

Wow! Great photos @flyCMH thanks for those. Very happy to welcome AS to CMH! Next stop SFO!
 
jtwall
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:19 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:43 pm

Heights wrote:
cvgComair wrote:
CVG has posted bids for 12 food concessions and another sit-down restaurant. Looks like 6 and 6 in both concourses. Not sure if the concessions are new or replacements of current vendors. Chapel room is also being relocated to Concourse B to free up space in the main terminal.

Also an interesting tidbit, it appears the new airline lease agreement will take effect in January 2020 with negations ongoing. It shall be interesting to see what DL does with its space usage.


Two things I wonder are

1. Are they negotiating the framework/funding for replacing the terminal at CVG

2. DL's future role at CVG

DL is squatting on a lot of gates in B that could be better used elsewhere, if they aren't going to use them all to a decent extent, they should become common use. Given DL is down to 80 or so flights, they only need about 10-12 gates now. Long term, the terminal layout at CVG needs to become more O&D friendly. I'd like to see the entire terminal complex replaced with a similar design to IND.


I wouldn't necessarily say that DL is squatting on a lot of gates. When I came in from Seattle on the red-eye on Monday morning, we actually had to wait a few minutes for a gate to open up. They still have a fairly busy morning rush out of CVG.

I also might be in the minority here, but I personally don't mind the current terminal layout. It's pretty easy to still get to any gate in 5-10 minutes from security (as long as the moving sidewalks are operational!).
 
cvgComair
Posts: 2040
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:00 pm

jtwall wrote:
Heights wrote:
cvgComair wrote:
CVG has posted bids for 12 food concessions and another sit-down restaurant. Looks like 6 and 6 in both concourses. Not sure if the concessions are new or replacements of current vendors. Chapel room is also being relocated to Concourse B to free up space in the main terminal.

Also an interesting tidbit, it appears the new airline lease agreement will take effect in January 2020 with negations ongoing. It shall be interesting to see what DL does with its space usage.


Two things I wonder are

1. Are they negotiating the framework/funding for replacing the terminal at CVG

2. DL's future role at CVG

DL is squatting on a lot of gates in B that could be better used elsewhere, if they aren't going to use them all to a decent extent, they should become common use. Given DL is down to 80 or so flights, they only need about 10-12 gates now. Long term, the terminal layout at CVG needs to become more O&D friendly. I'd like to see the entire terminal complex replaced with a similar design to IND.


I wouldn't necessarily say that DL is squatting on a lot of gates. When I came in from Seattle on the red-eye on Monday morning, we actually had to wait a few minutes for a gate to open up. They still have a fairly busy morning rush out of CVG.

I also might be in the minority here, but I personally don't mind the current terminal layout. It's pretty easy to still get to any gate in 5-10 minutes from security (as long as the moving sidewalks are operational!).

Yep, DL isn’t squatting on gates, they use all of them at peak times.

Agreed, I don’t get the obsession with a new terminal. CVG is nicely laid out as is. Really the only issue is the customs area.
 
flyCMH
Posts: 2272
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 1999 12:15 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:35 pm

Some more notes on the inaugural CMH-SEA flight on AS:

The flight was nearly 100% full - I saw only 2 empty seats on the flight. The plane itself seemed to get rave reviews, especially from those unfamiliar with the Alaska product - particularly the in-seat power and the overall condition of the plane (recently retrofitted).

That being said, Columbus Business First put out a good article on the need to support the service if we want to see it continue:

https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/ne ... s-off.html
 
777-200
Posts: 966
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2000 11:11 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:40 pm

jtwall wrote:
Heights wrote:
cvgComair wrote:
CVG has posted bids for 12 food concessions and another sit-down restaurant. Looks like 6 and 6 in both concourses. Not sure if the concessions are new or replacements of current vendors. Chapel room is also being relocated to Concourse B to free up space in the main terminal.

Also an interesting tidbit, it appears the new airline lease agreement will take effect in January 2020 with negations ongoing. It shall be interesting to see what DL does with its space usage.


Two things I wonder are

1. Are they negotiating the framework/funding for replacing the terminal at CVG

2. DL's future role at CVG

DL is squatting on a lot of gates in B that could be better used elsewhere, if they aren't going to use them all to a decent extent, they should become common use. Given DL is down to 80 or so flights, they only need about 10-12 gates now. Long term, the terminal layout at CVG needs to become more O&D friendly. I'd like to see the entire terminal complex replaced with a similar design to IND.


I wouldn't necessarily say that DL is squatting on a lot of gates. When I came in from Seattle on the red-eye on Monday morning, we actually had to wait a few minutes for a gate to open up. They still have a fairly busy morning rush out of CVG.

I also might be in the minority here, but I personally don't mind the current terminal layout. It's pretty easy to still get to any gate in 5-10 minutes from security (as long as the moving sidewalks are operational!).


I agree, the current layout is fine. Easy to get from ticket kiosk -> security -> Concourse A/B. Even without the moving sidewalks, 10 minutes max from security to B. Plus there is still the tram, although I rarely see people using that nowadays.

I think Delta will give up some of their gates - maybe United and Air Canada will move to B, then A will become the LCC concourse? Personally I'd rather see this vs. taking all the funds it would require to build a new terminal complex.
Another Day, Another Dollar.... Young Jeezy
 
jtwall
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:19 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:36 pm

cvgComair wrote:
jtwall wrote:
Heights wrote:

Two things I wonder are

1. Are they negotiating the framework/funding for replacing the terminal at CVG

2. DL's future role at CVG

DL is squatting on a lot of gates in B that could be better used elsewhere, if they aren't going to use them all to a decent extent, they should become common use. Given DL is down to 80 or so flights, they only need about 10-12 gates now. Long term, the terminal layout at CVG needs to become more O&D friendly. I'd like to see the entire terminal complex replaced with a similar design to IND.


I wouldn't necessarily say that DL is squatting on a lot of gates. When I came in from Seattle on the red-eye on Monday morning, we actually had to wait a few minutes for a gate to open up. They still have a fairly busy morning rush out of CVG.

I also might be in the minority here, but I personally don't mind the current terminal layout. It's pretty easy to still get to any gate in 5-10 minutes from security (as long as the moving sidewalks are operational!).

Yep, DL isn’t squatting on gates, they use all of them at peak times.

Agreed, I don’t get the obsession with a new terminal. CVG is nicely laid out as is. Really the only issue is the customs area.


Yep. The customs area is the only real problem with the airport. Once the new CONRAC is finished, the customs area is the biggest problem. When I came back on WW this summer, most people were griping about reclearing security (most of which have never come in on the CDG flight previously, I am assuming). Some people said they would rather just connect sometimes than deal with the reclearing. While that's a bit extreme, it could suppress demand just enough which might hurt CVG in landing more TATL flights that will inevitably be driven somewhat significantly by leisure travelers.
 
ncflyer
Posts: 1178
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 7:03 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:25 pm

Hopping on this topic a bit late and I suppose I could be guilty of a digression, but gate utilization at CVG isn't measured by flights per gate per day. I think we've been conditioned to read too much about WN and how they can pump planes in and out of gates (which in my observation they really don't excel at nearly as much now that their network is much more complicated and more like a traditional hub and spoke). The driver is gates needed at peak hours, which is likely RON flights up until they leave. To assess Delta's utilization of gates, I'd count how many flights depart between let's say 5:30AM and 8AM-- or even more broadly, scheduled departures across the hours of a day.
 
cvgComair
Posts: 2040
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:37 pm

ncflyer wrote:
Hopping on this topic a bit late and I suppose I could be guilty of a digression, but gate utilization at CVG isn't measured by flights per gate per day. I think we've been conditioned to read too much about WN and how they can pump planes in and out of gates (which in my observation they really don't excel at nearly as much now that their network is much more complicated and more like a traditional hub and spoke). The driver is gates needed at peak hours, which is likely RON flights up until they leave. To assess Delta's utilization of gates, I'd count how many flights depart between let's say 5:30AM and 8AM-- or even more broadly, scheduled departures across the hours of a day.

DL uses all their gates for RON/west coast arrivals in the morning. Pretty much everything is full, especially during the peak of the summer.
 
CMHtraveler
Posts: 93
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:36 pm

 
ILNFlyer
Posts: 375
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:34 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:53 pm

[photoid][/photoid]
CMHtraveler wrote:


:lol: :banghead:
 
flyguy89
Posts: 2554
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:57 pm

jtwall wrote:
cvgComair wrote:
jtwall wrote:

I wouldn't necessarily say that DL is squatting on a lot of gates. When I came in from Seattle on the red-eye on Monday morning, we actually had to wait a few minutes for a gate to open up. They still have a fairly busy morning rush out of CVG.

I also might be in the minority here, but I personally don't mind the current terminal layout. It's pretty easy to still get to any gate in 5-10 minutes from security (as long as the moving sidewalks are operational!).

Yep, DL isn’t squatting on gates, they use all of them at peak times.

Agreed, I don’t get the obsession with a new terminal. CVG is nicely laid out as is. Really the only issue is the customs area.


Yep. The customs area is the only real problem with the airport. Once the new CONRAC is finished, the customs area is the biggest problem. When I came back on WW this summer, most people were griping about reclearing security (most of which have never come in on the CDG flight previously, I am assuming). Some people said they would rather just connect sometimes than deal with the reclearing. While that's a bit extreme, it could suppress demand just enough which might hurt CVG in landing more TATL flights that will inevitably be driven somewhat significantly by leisure travelers.

They'd have to reclear security if they connected as well though. Doesn't make a lot of sense. Anywho... seems like an easy enough problem to address if it truly becomes an issue: add a sterile bypass to a bus to take destinating pax directly to main terminal baggage claim.
 
jtwall
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:19 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:14 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
jtwall wrote:
cvgComair wrote:
Yep, DL isn’t squatting on gates, they use all of them at peak times.

Agreed, I don’t get the obsession with a new terminal. CVG is nicely laid out as is. Really the only issue is the customs area.


Yep. The customs area is the only real problem with the airport. Once the new CONRAC is finished, the customs area is the biggest problem. When I came back on WW this summer, most people were griping about reclearing security (most of which have never come in on the CDG flight previously, I am assuming). Some people said they would rather just connect sometimes than deal with the reclearing. While that's a bit extreme, it could suppress demand just enough which might hurt CVG in landing more TATL flights that will inevitably be driven somewhat significantly by leisure travelers.

They'd have to reclear security if they connected as well though. Doesn't make a lot of sense. Anywho... seems like an easy enough problem to address if it truly becomes an issue: add a sterile bypass to a bus to take destinating pax directly to main terminal baggage claim.


That’s actually a surprisingly easy solution and I’m surprised they haven’t looked into it. I’m not sure exactly how the old Concourse C shuttle connection worked, but I’d imagine some of that can be repurposed and connected past the customs exit.
 
DeltaRules
Topic Author
Posts: 4950
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Sat Mar 09, 2019 12:52 am

Dispatch article about Alaska: https://www.dispatch.com/business/20190 ... or-takeoff

One important note there is AS indicating additional frequencies to SEA and/or new service are in play if the first flight works.

ILNFlyer wrote:
[photoid][/photoid]
CMHtraveler wrote:


:lol: :banghead:


That tagline IS catchy, though, I'll give AS that.
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
topguncnod
Posts: 53
Joined: Tue May 30, 2017 1:46 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:58 am

Noticed quite a few 737-700’s on the CVG-ATL routes right now. Can’t really remember seeing them here before. @CVGcomair? Maybe you already mentioned this?

Definitely a good way to utilize the 73N pilot base at CVG without adding too much capacity from all the 88–> 73 upguages
 
cvgComair
Posts: 2040
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:35 pm

topguncnod wrote:
Noticed quite a few 737-700’s on the CVG-ATL routes right now. Can’t really remember seeing them here before. @CVGcomair? Maybe you already mentioned this?

Definitely a good way to utilize the 73N pilot base at CVG without adding too much capacity from all the 88–> 73 upguages

Yeah, they loaded the March schedule a while back and recently loaded them in April/May as well. Kind of surprising given how limited they are in the fleet, but I am happy they are reducing the MD fleet at CVG. Although I like the 88/90 as planes, they don't compare to the A320/B737 interiors with PTV/outlets.
 
cvgComair
Posts: 2040
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:39 pm

AA has extended the 3x mainline on CVG-DFW through June.
 
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Cvgspotter15
Posts: 361
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:02 am

cvgComair wrote:
topguncnod wrote:
Noticed quite a few 737-700’s on the CVG-ATL routes right now. Can’t really remember seeing them here before. @CVGcomair? Maybe you already mentioned this?

Definitely a good way to utilize the 73N pilot base at CVG without adding too much capacity from all the 88–> 73 upguages

Yeah, they loaded the March schedule a while back and recently loaded them in April/May as well. Kind of surprising given how limited they are in the fleet, but I am happy they are reducing the MD fleet at CVG. Although I like the 88/90 as planes, they don't compare to the A320/B737 interiors with PTV/outlets.


I personally hate flying on the MD-88/90s. Incredibly load, uncomfortable seats, and it just feels like a big regional jet.
 
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Cvgspotter15
Posts: 361
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:04 am

cvgComair wrote:
AA has extended the 3x mainline on CVG-DFW through June.


I saw on twitter you said they were also flying 6x daily. Isn't that a daily upgauge? I believe its 4x daily right now with 2 mainline flights and then 2 AE on Embraers.
 
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Cvgspotter15
Posts: 361
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:08 am

Also, sorry for the triple post, I know UA has been really up-gauging flights to mainline which I love, but I can't help to notice the daily flights keep going down in the OAG reports YOY. Don't know if this is just for the month, but ive noticed this multiple times. i.e. IAD and EWR.
 
cvgComair
Posts: 2040
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:24 pm

Cvgspotter15 wrote:
cvgComair wrote:
AA has extended the 3x mainline on CVG-DFW through June.


I saw on twitter you said they were also flying 6x daily. Isn't that a daily upgauge? I believe its 4x daily right now with 2 mainline flights and then 2 AE on Embraers.

Yeah, it's an increase in daily flights. Previously they were operating 5x/day with 2 mainline.

Cvgspotter15 wrote:
Also, sorry for the triple post, I know UA has been really up-gauging flights to mainline which I love, but I can't help to notice the daily flights keep going down in the OAG reports YOY. Don't know if this is just for the month, but ive noticed this multiple times. i.e. IAD and EWR.

Yep, IAD/IAH were offset by the increase in mainline, but CVG-IAH/EWR/IAD are all down one frequency YOY.
 
DeltaRules
Topic Author
Posts: 4950
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:25 am

VX lands at CMH, if only in spirit and for one day: https://twitter.com/michealw31/status/1 ... 0016186368
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
flyCMH
Posts: 2272
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 1999 12:15 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:48 pm

miaami wrote:
AA at CMH has some changes starting in May.

CMH-DFW down to 4 mainline flights
CMH-ORD downgauges 2 738s to Eagle
CMH-MIA back to 3 flights after being reduced for the month of APR to 2
CMH-LGA upgauge 1 of 6 flights from Eagle to mainline E-190
CMH-JFK upgauge to E-175


I'm curious if there will be additional changes to the summer schedule starting in June.


It looks like June is out with some further upgauges:

CMH-DFW: 5x daily (3x M80, 2x 738)
CMH-ORD: 10x daily (mainline returns with 1x 319)
CMH-MIA: retains 3x daily (all ER4)
CMH-LGA: retains 1x E90
CMH-JFK: remains 1x E75

CLT remains all-Eagle with an E75/CR9 mix 7x daily, plus 1x CR7. No changes with DCA and PHL; both are 5x and 6x E75, respectively. LAX and PHX remain 2x 319 each. Really surprised with ORD - haven't seen 10x daily in years and with one mainline frequency on top of that. Overall, very pleased with AA's summer schedule as it stands.
 
jplatts
Posts: 2712
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:47 pm

How well is WN actually doing on CMH-BOS and CMH-DCA? WN will be back up to 2 daily nonstops on CMH-BOS starting next month, whereas WN will be reducing IND-BOS to Saturday-only nonstop in Summer 2019. In Summer 2019, WN will also be operating only 1 daily nonstop to BOS from MCI, 1 daily nonstop to BOS from MKE, and 5 daily nonstops to BOS from MDW.

Is WN actually doing better on CMH-BOS than on MDW-BOS, IND-BOS, MCI-BOS, or MKE-BOS? I am surprised that WN hasn't cut back on CMH-BOS with WN having already reduced frequencies on MDW-BOS, MCI-BOS, and MKE-BOS and with WN reducing IND-BOS nonstop service to Saturday-only nonstop service starting in June 2019.

While WN dropped IND-DCA nonstop service back in November 2017, WN still serves DCA nonstop from CMH. While there is less O&D demand to WAS from CMH than there is from IND or CVG, CMH has approximately the same O&D demand to DCA than IND does and CMH has more O&D demand to DCA than CVG does. There is likely more government travel to DCA from CMH than there is from IND with Ohio having 1.75 times the population of Indiana.

Was WN actually doing better on CMH-DCA than on IND-DCA back in 2017, and is WN actually doing better on CMH-DCA and CMH-BWI than on IND-BWI or CVG-BWI?

One big difference between the CMH market from the IND or CVG markets is that there is less demand for US3 service out of CMH than there is out of IND or CVG. In addition, CMH will be the 4th largest WN station in the Midwest in Summer 2019 as MDW, STL, and MCI will be the only WN stations in the Midwest that will be larger by number of daily departures than CMH in Summer 2019.
 
flyCMH
Posts: 2272
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 1999 12:15 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:12 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
VX lands at CMH, if only in spirit and for one day: https://twitter.com/michealw31/status/1 ... 0016186368


A day after (today), AS is sending an ex-VX A321-neo to CMH:

https://www.flightradar24.com/ASA1692/1fc7961d
 
DeltaRules
Topic Author
Posts: 4950
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:55 pm

flyCMH wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
VX lands at CMH, if only in spirit and for one day: https://twitter.com/michealw31/status/1 ... 0016186368


A day after (today), AS is sending an ex-VX A321-neo to CMH:

https://www.flightradar24.com/ASA1692/1fc7961d


Now that's something- I wonder what the occasion is. Did today's flight in particular warrant an upgauge?

I'm still laughing at the flight number seeing as there's no AS 1492/1493 in their system.
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
DeltaRules
Topic Author
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:34 pm

Joe Nardone talks AS and the need to support the service going forward: https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/ne ... s-off.html
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
ChasChandler
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed May 09, 2018 11:00 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:42 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
Joe Nardone talks AS and the need to support the service going forward: https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/ne ... s-off.html

Can you bullet point some of the key items?
 
DeltaRules
Topic Author
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:28 am

ChasChandler wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
Joe Nardone talks AS and the need to support the service going forward: https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/ne ... s-off.html

Can you bullet point some of the key items?


-Nardone is excited to see CMH-SEA but is fully aware the community has to support the flights (including SFO and SLC) to keep them and is encouraging travelers to do so.
-The first few days' worth of flights are sold out.
-Alex Fischer from the Columbus Partnership acknowledges the value of SEA to Columbus-area companies with ties to Asia (with Honda the biggest) as it's a gateway.
-Columbus is drawing attention for its status as a rising hub for startup companies/venture capital.

I'm only one person, but the first point isn't lost on me- I'm going to SFO in September and intend on connecting through SLC at least one direction (DL loyalist here).
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
CMH2578
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:52 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:17 am

DeltaRules wrote:
ChasChandler wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
Joe Nardone talks AS and the need to support the service going forward: https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/ne ... s-off.html

Can you bullet point some of the key items?


-Nardone is excited to see CMH-SEA but is fully aware the community has to support the flights (including SFO and SLC) to keep them and is encouraging travelers to do so.
-The first few days' worth of flights are sold out.
-Alex Fischer from the Columbus Partnership acknowledges the value of SEA to Columbus-area companies with ties to Asia (with Honda the biggest) as it's a gateway.
-Columbus is drawing attention for its status as a rising hub for startup companies/venture capital.

I'm only one person, but the first point isn't lost on me- I'm going to SFO in September and intend on connecting through SLC at least one direction (DL loyalist here).


You're a Delta loyalist?? The handle seemed to suggest otherwise ;)

JK, also a Delta flyer and live in Columbus.

Seems reading between the lines of Fisher's comment is that Delta is at least interested in the SEA route as well. Both from the perspective of protecting their (DL) SEA hub and onward connections to points west (since AS isn't going past SEA).
 
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Pudelhund
Posts: 190
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:31 am

Also a Delta FF (waiting at LAX now for the DL1598 red eye to CMH) and I have a lot of reasons to go to SEA but would never do the nonstop unless Delta did it. Otherwise I am more than happy to connect in DTW or this year SLC.
 
CMHtraveler
Posts: 93
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:02 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
(DL loyalist here).


Not a DL loyalist by any means (WN if anything, but that’s just because they have direct flights to MDW, BNA, and now HOU which happen to be all three of the cities we have family in) but I think all three of you validate Nardone’s concern;

How does a one-off airline with one long and thin route to one city make it at CMH post-incentives? What FF wants to earn zero points when they could make one quick stop on their airline of choice with service to multiple hubs, especially with DL starting SLC which is “on the way” to SEA?

I‘m thrilled with AS coming to CMH, but for their survival here, I hope they are very actively going after corporate contracts. They better hope Amazon has a lot of travel planned for central Ohio! For the reasons everyone has laid out, I don’t think leisure alone will cut it long term.
 
DeltaRules
Topic Author
Posts: 4950
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:56 pm

CMH2578 wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
ChasChandler wrote:
Can you bullet point some of the key items?


-Nardone is excited to see CMH-SEA but is fully aware the community has to support the flights (including SFO and SLC) to keep them and is encouraging travelers to do so.
-The first few days' worth of flights are sold out.
-Alex Fischer from the Columbus Partnership acknowledges the value of SEA to Columbus-area companies with ties to Asia (with Honda the biggest) as it's a gateway.
-Columbus is drawing attention for its status as a rising hub for startup companies/venture capital.

I'm only one person, but the first point isn't lost on me- I'm going to SFO in September and intend on connecting through SLC at least one direction (DL loyalist here).


You're a Delta loyalist?? The handle seemed to suggest otherwise ;)

JK, also a Delta flyer and live in Columbus.

Seems reading between the lines of Fisher's comment is that Delta is at least interested in the SEA route as well. Both from the perspective of protecting their (DL) SEA hub and onward connections to points west (since AS isn't going past SEA).


Haha, the handle sounded a lot cooler when I originally registered when I was 14 in the ye olden days of 2001. :lol:

I wonder if DL will do what it appears UA has done with the Bay Area: let AS be the litmus test and, if they drop the ball, swoop in and take it themselves. Something similar just happened with DAB and NYC; B6 left DAB-JFK because they weren't getting the yields they wanted in spite of LFs in the 85-95% range, but AA wasted no time in adding a Saturday LGA flight which seems like it could easily go daily.
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
flyCMH
Posts: 2272
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 1999 12:15 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:07 pm

Count me in as another one that gravitates towards DL for air travel. That being said, I'm definitely trying to put my money where my mouth is to support these new nonstops (just booked on the inaugural CMH-SFO on UA!).

CMHtraveler wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
(DL loyalist here).

How does a one-off airline with one long and thin route to one city make it at CMH post-incentives? What FF wants to earn zero points when they could make one quick stop on their airline of choice with service to multiple hubs, especially with DL starting SLC which is “on the way” to SEA?


I think the route is more geared towards people in Seattle and the PNW that need access to Central Ohio. People in that area of the US are fiercely loyal to AS. My guess is that they anticipate similar results as SEA-IND, which has since grown to include a Delta competing flight. With big data establishing a decent presence in Central Ohio, growth in the PNW as well as in the Columbus Region, and the need for AS to continue to venture into new markets, the anticipation is that a route to CMH is finally commercially viable.
 
fsafsx
Posts: 226
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:02 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:29 pm

When will Cbus get an expansion from Spirit? I hope they add 5 new routes soon and build a good size operation.
 
CMHtraveler
Posts: 93
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:34 pm

flyCMH wrote:
I think the route is more geared towards people in Seattle and the PNW that need access to Central Ohio. People in that area of the US are fiercely loyal to AS. My guess is that they anticipate similar results as SEA-IND, which has since grown to include a Delta competing flight. With big data establishing a decent presence in Central Ohio, growth in the PNW as well as in the Columbus Region, and the need for AS to continue to venture into new markets, the anticipation is that a route to CMH is finally commercially viable.


All valid points and I very much hope you are right. Perhaps my concerns are CMH-centric and I’m underappreciating the AS loyalty from the SEA end.

Enjoy the SFO inaugural! Now that is an addition I would anticipate UA finding lots of success on (hello Honda/Asia connections!) and a potential candidate for additional frequencies in the future.
 
Delta28L
Posts: 221
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:00 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:37 pm

fsafsx wrote:
When will Cbus get an expansion from Spirit? I hope they add 5 new routes soon and build a good size operation.


Probably after Spirit analyzes the data of the station performance and also to see if they are making any money. My guess would be probably in a couple of years. Pittsburgh hasn’t gotten any new routes. We actually lost the KDFW route (which wasn’t surprising since AA and SWA ran them off) and Latrobe hasn’t gotten any new routes. They’ve lost the KLAS and KDFW routes but the KDFW route was moved to KPIT before being dropped.
 
jplatts
Posts: 2712
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:40 pm

Delta28L wrote:
fsafsx wrote:
When will Cbus get an expansion from Spirit? I hope they add 5 new routes soon and build a good size operation.


Probably after Spirit analyzes the data of the station performance and also to see if they are making any money. My guess would be probably in a couple of years. Pittsburgh hasn’t gotten any new routes. We actually lost the KDFW route (which wasn’t surprising since AA and SWA ran them off) and Latrobe hasn’t gotten any new routes. They’ve lost the KLAS and KDFW routes but the KDFW route was moved to KPIT before being dropped.


NK actually dropped LBE-DFW nonstop service back in April 2014, but added PIT-DFW nonstop service when NK started service out of PIT in May 2017.

NK might be able to make CMH-DFW nonstop service work since (a) there will be fewer seats on CMH-DFW/DAL nonstops than there are on CVG-DFW nonstops in Summer 2019, (b) NK is much bigger than F9 is at DFW, (c) CMH-DFW/DAL currently has less competition than CVG-DFW does, (d) there are currently no ULCC's serving DFW from CMH whereas F9 currently has less-than-daily seasonal nonstop service to DFW from CVG, and (e) there is more O&D demand to DFW/DAL from CMH than there is from CVG.

Here are the PDEW's for CMH-DFW/DAL and CVG-DFW/DAL in Q3 2018:
CMH-DFW/DAL - 344 passengers
CVG-DFW/DAL - 315 passengers (no nonstop service to DAL from CVG)
 
CMHtraveler
Posts: 93
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:35 pm

jplatts wrote:
Here are the PDEW's for CMH-DFW/DAL and CVG-DFW/DAL in Q3 2018:


jplatts, do you know the PDEW for CMH-MSY? Hoping for more than sporadic service from NK or WN at some point.
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 4060
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:47 pm

CMHtraveler wrote:
jplatts wrote:
Here are the PDEW's for CMH-DFW/DAL and CVG-DFW/DAL in Q3 2018:


jplatts, do you know the PDEW for CMH-MSY? Hoping for more than sporadic service from NK or WN at some point.


2018
Q1 104 PDEW
Q2 ? PDEW
Q3 84 PDEW
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
atbPy
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:47 pm

I am a AA flyer, but I am set to go to SFO next month. I am going to try AS on the return to see how it is and support the route.
 
ChasChandler
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed May 09, 2018 11:00 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:56 pm

CMHtraveler wrote:
jplatts wrote:
Here are the PDEW's for CMH-DFW/DAL and CVG-DFW/DAL in Q3 2018:


jplatts, do you know the PDEW for CMH-MSY? Hoping for more than sporadic service from NK or WN at some point.

It would be interesting to see the historic data for a PDEW from CVG and CMH to various cities. It took forever for CMH to get a flight to LAX and many thought it was because there wasn't the traffic to support it. Now there are three flights. Somehow passengers came from somewhere at a rate high enough to support three flights when there was a question if they could support one.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 2833
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:14 pm

ChasChandler wrote:
CMHtraveler wrote:
jplatts wrote:
Here are the PDEW's for CMH-DFW/DAL and CVG-DFW/DAL in Q3 2018:


jplatts, do you know the PDEW for CMH-MSY? Hoping for more than sporadic service from NK or WN at some point.

It would be interesting to see the historic data for a PDEW from CVG and CMH to various cities. It took forever for CMH to get a flight to LAX and many thought it was because there wasn't the traffic to support it. Now there are three flights. Somehow passengers came from somewhere at a rate high enough to support three flights when there was a question if they could support one.


It all is here. You can sort it how you want. Just cut the number listed in half for one way numbers. The number listed includes both directions (if it says 20, that means 10 people flying CLE-XXX and 10 flying XXX-CLE a day to equal 20)

https://data.transportation.gov/Aviatio ... -b2ir/data
 
CMHtraveler
Posts: 93
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:06 am

Midwestindy wrote:
2018
Q1 104 PDEW
Q2 ? PDEW
Q3 84 PDEW


Thanks Midwestindy! Those seem like numbers that would support 1x daily on an e175 but maybe a bit light for the 737/320s that WN and NK use seasonally. Hopefully it’s only a matter of time before someone gives daily service a shot.
 
cvgComair
Posts: 2040
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:36 pm

Two nice increases in the OAG for CVG:

AA CVG-ORD MAY 7>8[6] JUN 7>8[7]
DL CVG-SEA MAY 0.5>0.9[0.7] SEP 0.7>0.9[0.7]
 
CMHtraveler
Posts: 93
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:50 pm

Also from Enilria’s OAG thread:

WN BNA-CMH OCT 0.1>3[1.9]
WN CMH-TPA OCT 0.1>3[1.9]


Looks like WN is adding a 3rd daily on BNA and TPA?
 
jtwall
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:19 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:55 pm

cvgComair wrote:
Two nice increases in the OAG for CVG:

AA CVG-ORD MAY 7>8[6] JUN 7>8[7]
DL CVG-SEA MAY 0.5>0.9[0.7] SEP 0.7>0.9[0.7]


Unfortunately it looks like WN is dropping a CVG-MDW frequency, dropping down to 4. Unless that's been going on for a while.
 
cvgComair
Posts: 2040
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:08 pm

jtwall wrote:
cvgComair wrote:
Two nice increases in the OAG for CVG:

AA CVG-ORD MAY 7>8[6] JUN 7>8[7]
DL CVG-SEA MAY 0.5>0.9[0.7] SEP 0.7>0.9[0.7]


Unfortunately it looks like WN is dropping a CVG-MDW frequency, dropping down to 4. Unless that's been going on for a while.

It is still at 5x/day through the end of the schedule. I think that was a misfile/the whole schedule wasn't loaded.
 
jplatts
Posts: 2712
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:46 am

While WN had considered adding CVG-BOS nonstop service last year, WN is less likely to add CVG-BOS nonstop service with WN completely dropping IND-BOS nonstop service and with WN having reduced frequencies on MDW-BOS, MCI-BOS, and MKE-BOS nonstop service.

It was mentioned in the Indianapolis Aviation Thread discussion that while load factors were slightly better on WN IND-BOS nonstop service than on WN CMH-BOS nonstop service, the yields were much better on WN CMH-BOS nonstop service than on WN IND-BOS nonstop service.

Would WN do better on CVG-BOS nonstop service than on IND-BOS nonstop service? Is WN adding CVG-BOS nonstop service likely to happen at this point?
 
jplatts
Posts: 2712
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:43 pm

There is an article titled "Editorial: Want more direct flights from CMH? Use the ones we have" that was published on the Columbus Dispatch website today, which can be found at https://www.dispatch.com/opinion/20190225/editorial-want-more-direct-flights-from-cmh-use-ones-we-have.
 
User avatar
Pudelhund
Posts: 190
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:06 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:38 pm

jplatts wrote:
There is an article titled "Editorial: Want more direct flights from CMH? Use the ones we have" that was published on the Columbus Dispatch website today, which can be found at https://www.dispatch.com/opinion/20190225/editorial-want-more-direct-flights-from-cmh-use-ones-we-have.


The chances of me flying direct to SEA with Alaska vs via DTW/MSP with Delta are next to zero. The responsibility of the Ohio customers to fill this flight are down to non-frequent flyers and new business contracts. Otherwise, the onus seems more on Alaska’s customer base in the PNW to make this a successful route. Existing business flyers in Central Ohio would have benefited a lot more if Delta had done this route.
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