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jplatts
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:50 pm

WN is going to be permanently discontinuing SFO-AUS and SFO-DAL nonstop service after January 5th.

WN dropping SFO-MKE seasonal nonstop service and adding OAK-MKE nonstop service might happen with WN having already dropped SFO-ATL/PDX/SNA and WN dropping SFO-AUS/DAL.
 
babastud
Posts: 273
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:08 pm

jplatts wrote:
WN is going to be permanently discontinuing SFO-AUS and SFO-DAL nonstop service after January 5th.

WN dropping SFO-MKE seasonal nonstop service and adding OAK-MKE nonstop service might happen with WN having already dropped SFO-ATL/PDX/SNA and WN dropping SFO-AUS/DAL.



What's the story with WN at SFO nowadays? and do you think these cuts will help AS?
 
AirFiero
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:25 pm

babastud wrote:
jplatts wrote:
WN is going to be permanently discontinuing SFO-AUS and SFO-DAL nonstop service after January 5th.

WN dropping SFO-MKE seasonal nonstop service and adding OAK-MKE nonstop service might happen with WN having already dropped SFO-ATL/PDX/SNA and WN dropping SFO-AUS/DAL.



What's the story with WN at SFO nowadays? and do you think these cuts will help AS?


SFO is a mess? Traffic getting to and from is bad, IFR delays, shortage of gates and a fortress UA hub?
 
babastud
Posts: 273
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 1:38 am

Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:38 am

AirFiero wrote:
babastud wrote:
jplatts wrote:
WN is going to be permanently discontinuing SFO-AUS and SFO-DAL nonstop service after January 5th.

WN dropping SFO-MKE seasonal nonstop service and adding OAK-MKE nonstop service might happen with WN having already dropped SFO-ATL/PDX/SNA and WN dropping SFO-AUS/DAL.



What's the story with WN at SFO nowadays? and do you think these cuts will help AS?


SFO is a mess? Traffic getting to and from is bad, IFR delays, shortage of gates and a fortress UA hub?



All true, but I would have thought the gate situation would have gotten a little relief with the portion of T1 that opened, didn't WN move over their?

It seems like SFO has been declining domestic flight numbers but dramatically increasing international numbers. While SJC and OAK shed a fair amount of international, but have gained back domestic.
 
EK216
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:52 am

jplatts wrote:
WN is going to be permanently discontinuing SFO-AUS and SFO-DAL nonstop service after January 5th.

WN dropping SFO-MKE seasonal nonstop service and adding OAK-MKE nonstop service might happen with WN having already dropped SFO-ATL/PDX/SNA and WN dropping SFO-AUS/DAL.


I honestly think it makes sense. WN at 2/3 large Bay Area airpots operating several flights a day to DAL, I think, is enough to satisfy that market.

I'm not sure of the current status of WN in SFO, but considering how SFO is a massive UA hub, did UA kill them off? Or AA offering better fares/further connections at DFW?
 
AirFiero
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:20 am

babastud wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
babastud wrote:


What's the story with WN at SFO nowadays? and do you think these cuts will help AS?


SFO is a mess? Traffic getting to and from is bad, IFR delays, shortage of gates and a fortress UA hub?



All true, but I would have thought the gate situation would have gotten a little relief with the portion of T1 that opened, didn't WN move over their?

It seems like SFO has been declining domestic flight numbers but dramatically increasing international numbers. While SJC and OAK shed a fair amount of international, but have gained back domestic.


I don’t know the details of the gate situation at SFO. I do remember reading that several new gates are coming online, but not for a few more years.

Good observation on the domestic versus international thing.
 
mmahpeel
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:12 pm

The flysfo site has put up information on the gate renumbering project, which will occur on 16 October 2019.

There is a short video as well as a conversion chart showing the current and future gate numbering scheme.

It's going to be quite the effort to change signage throughout the facility overnight....

https://www.flysfo.com/gate-renumbering
 
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intotheair
Posts: 1888
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:27 pm

mmahpeel wrote:
The flysfo site has put up information on the gate renumbering project, which will occur on 16 October 2019.

There is a short video as well as a conversion chart showing the current and future gate numbering scheme.

It's going to be quite the effort to change signage throughout the facility overnight....

https://www.flysfo.com/gate-renumbering


Interesting idea, and it’s probably the right move. I feel like SFO is a pretty easy airport to understand but I forget how much ingrained the gate numbers are for me. I fairly regularly see people get past security in Terminal 3 and get thrown off by the 70s gates being to the left of the 80-90 gates.
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 380 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 77W 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 CRK Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90
AA AF AS AY AZ B6 BA BR DL F9 FI GA HA KF LH MI QX SK SN SQ UA US VY WN
 
simpv
Posts: 167
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:45 pm

Any rumors about potential service additions to SFO, OAK, or SJC?
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:30 pm

babastud wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
babastud wrote:


What's the story with WN at SFO nowadays? and do you think these cuts will help AS?


SFO is a mess? Traffic getting to and from is bad, IFR delays, shortage of gates and a fortress UA hub?



All true, but I would have thought the gate situation would have gotten a little relief with the portion of T1 that opened, didn't WN move over their?

It seems like SFO has been declining domestic flight numbers but dramatically increasing international numbers. While SJC and OAK shed a fair amount of international, but have gained back domestic.


SJC hasn’t shed a fair amount of international. They’ve gained a fair amount of international - NRT, PEK, LHR, YVR, YYZ, SJD, GDL.

A couple of international airlines pulled out of SJC after a period of rapid expansion, but it’s hardly correct to say SJC has shed international.
 
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SFOA380
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:17 pm

Just heard that the big runway project is finishing up a week early and will reopen tomorrow...
 
modesto2
Posts: 2728
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2000 3:44 am

Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:20 pm

Just saw two OZ A350s at SFO, one parked on the G side and another in remote parking. Anyone know why there’s an extra?
 
simpv
Posts: 167
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:19 pm

Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:34 pm

Quite a bit of changes at SFO!

There was the loss of Thomas Cook (MAN), Icelandair (KEF), XL Airways (CDG), and Hong Kong Airlines (HKG), but the announcements of Alitalia (FCO) and now LOT (WAW).

Which market is LOT targeting--is there enough tech/business traffic that is better served with LOT than LH?
 
babastud
Posts: 273
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:59 am

simpv wrote:
Quite a bit of changes at SFO!

There was the loss of Thomas Cook (MAN), Icelandair (KEF), XL Airways (CDG), and Hong Kong Airlines (HKG), but the announcements of Alitalia (FCO) and now LOT (WAW).

Which market is LOT targeting--is there enough tech/business traffic that is better served with LOT than LH?



Where is the info on LOT coming? This would be great I know they have wanted for some time.
 
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KLMatSJC
Posts: 718
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:07 am

babastud wrote:
simpv wrote:
Quite a bit of changes at SFO!

There was the loss of Thomas Cook (MAN), Icelandair (KEF), XL Airways (CDG), and Hong Kong Airlines (HKG), but the announcements of Alitalia (FCO) and now LOT (WAW).

Which market is LOT targeting--is there enough tech/business traffic that is better served with LOT than LH?



Where is the info on LOT coming? This would be great I know they have wanted for some time.


I found this but I haven't seen it anywhere else https://onemileatatime.com/lot-polish-san-francisco/
A318/19/20/21/21N A332/3 A343/5 A388 B712 B722 B732/3/4/7/8/9/9ER B744/4M B752/3 B762ER/3/3ER/4ER B772/E/L/W B788 CRJ2/7/9 Q400 EMB-120 ERJ-135/140/145/145XR/175 DC-10-10 MD-82/83/88/90

Long Live the Tulip, Cactus, and Redwood
 
simpv
Posts: 167
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:19 pm

Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:02 am

KLMatSJC wrote:
babastud wrote:
simpv wrote:
Quite a bit of changes at SFO!

There was the loss of Thomas Cook (MAN), Icelandair (KEF), XL Airways (CDG), and Hong Kong Airlines (HKG), but the announcements of Alitalia (FCO) and now LOT (WAW).

Which market is LOT targeting--is there enough tech/business traffic that is better served with LOT than LH?



Where is the info on LOT coming? This would be great I know they have wanted for some time.


I found this but I haven't seen it anywhere else https://onemileatatime.com/lot-polish-san-francisco/



Seems to be confirmed--quotes from the LOT CEO
https://www.sfgate.com/travel/article/L ... 498013.php
 
iflykpdx
Posts: 267
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 8:42 am

Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:56 pm

So it's been awhile, but I guess I'll resuscitate this.

So far for 2020, SJC will have added service to:

AUS on AA
YYZ on AC
PVR on AS
KOA and LIH on WN
B6 adding a summer daytime BOS frequency
BA upgauging LHR to a 747 for the summer (honestly hard to believe this is happening)
NH switching from NRT to HND.

On the flipside:

AS is dumping TUS, JFK and SNA (after dropping BUR and DAL)
WN's RDU fizzled out, and MCO looks to be getting cut, hopefully to come back once the MAX issues are resolved.

Overall seems to be a net-positive, but some unfortunate losses. With added competition on the Hawaii routes and now AUS, I think we're going to see more cuts in these areas by someone. AS has seemingly given up on SJC as part of a "Most West Coast" strategy, conceding the secondary intra-CA to WN, so I wouldn't be surprised if they're first to blink on AUS/Hawaii as well. I still think there's room for some additions:

DL or AS to BOS
DL to RDU

And maybe some additional upgauging on DL's existing routes.

With the HNA troubles, we'll see how PEK goes. If we lose that, hopefully KE would get serious about adding ICN or maybe CI to TPE. There's certainly room for at least two Asian carriers here.
Airport Management - UND
 
tphuang
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:06 pm

I don't see another carrier entering BOS-SJC when B6 is adding an A321 on top of A320. It's not that large of a market.
 
AirFiero
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:13 pm

tphuang wrote:
I don't see another carrier entering BOS-SJC when B6 is adding an A321 on top of A320. It's not that large of a market.


I disagree. How many nonstops are there on SFO-BOS, and on how many airlines? How much of that traffic is potential leakage of both business and leisure from SJC area?

B6 has had only ONE flight on the route for years, and it’s a red eye. I’m VERY surprised DL hasn’t jumped on, especially given they fly SJC-JFK. I’m even surprised AS didn’t add it during their transcon experiments.
 
ucdtim17
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:40 pm

OTOH, OAK continues to founder, losing more service than gaining. The airport is not pumping out monthly press releases anymore about record traffic, so presumably the numbers are down from last year, which is still down from the mid-2000s peak. The ongoing F&B overall is a much needed improvement but the bones of the terminals are still old and cramped compared to the alternatives at SFO and SJC, with seemingly no plans to significantly change that in the foreseeable future.
 
SonaSounds
Posts: 279
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:16 pm

AirFiero wrote:
tphuang wrote:
I don't see another carrier entering BOS-SJC when B6 is adding an A321 on top of A320. It's not that large of a market.


I disagree. How many nonstops are there on SFO-BOS, and on how many airlines? How much of that traffic is potential leakage of both business and leisure from SJC area?


For an average week this year, this was the daily Bay Area to Boston service:

SFO: 17x
2x AS
5x B6
2x DL
8x UA

SJC: 1x
1x B6

OAK: 0.6x
4x/wk B6

Even if you assume half of SFO's BOS flights are connecting onto international flights that still leaves 8+ daily O&D flights......more than enough to have another couple serve SJC/OAK
 
tphuang
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:37 pm

You have to check the yields on SJC/OAK routes vs SFO. There is a reason everyone serves SFO rather than SJC. We will see. The market is certainly elastic. B6 is adding an all-core A321 to SFO and SJC next year + making OAK daily Nobody else is really adding to this market. UA has actually cut back on the capacity. DL is only 2x daily for a few month a year on SFO. AS has stayed flat. For me, it's clear case of B6 taking over the boston to bay area market.
 
ucdtim17
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:13 pm

It's chicken and egg. The flights are at SFO, so that's where people fly. I don't think it's really plausible that 90+% of the BOS-Bay Area traffic would choose SFO given equal options at SJC and OAK. But they aren't equal. There are factors that nudge business there, and then once some goes there, seemingly it all wants to go there.
 
AirFiero
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:34 pm

ucdtim17 wrote:
It's chicken and egg. The flights are at SFO, so that's where people fly. I don't think it's really plausible that 90+% of the BOS-Bay Area traffic would choose SFO given equal options at SJC and OAK. But they aren't equal. There are factors that nudge business there, and then once some goes there, seemingly it all wants to go there.


Exactly, especially given that there are so many Silicon Valley companies that are CLOSER to SJC. It’s likely a combination of FF and critical mass (everyone flies from SFO so all the flights are there because everyone flies from there).
 
jplatts
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:18 pm

WN has extended its flight schedule to August 10, 2020 in today's schedule extension, and WN will be reducing SFO-MKE seasonal nonstop service to weekend-only nonstop service in Summer 2020.

UA could add SFO-MKE nonstop service as the lack of daily nonstop service to MKE from the San Francisco Bay Area is a huge hole. There is more than enough demand for daily nonstop service to MKE from SFO as the PDEW on MKE-SFO/OAK/SJC was 201 passengers per day in Q2 2019.

In addition to there being enough O&D between MKE and the San Francisco Bay Area to support MKE-SFO nonstop service on UA, UA would also be able to offer 1-stop connections to destinations in Hawaii, Asia, Australia, and New Zealand from MKE through SFO if it adds MKE-SFO nonstop service.
 
iflykpdx
Posts: 267
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 8:42 am

Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:52 am

I did some digging and it appears Azores Airlines likely doesn't serve OAK anymore. They have no longer operate a fleet type that can do non-stop OAK-TER, and Oakland is not listed as a destination on their website (all searched itineraries go through BOS and connect on B6). OAK may be reduced to Mexico flights only as far as international is concerned now.
Airport Management - UND
 
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SQ22
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:05 pm

Please continue your discussion and to post your updates here:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1438007

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