airlineworker wrote:

HVNandrew wrote:

CairnterriAIR wrote:

Groton’s loads dropped once Southwest entered Providence and Hartford and the fares and seat numbers they offered made service aboard the smaller turboprop uneconomical. Before that happened, GON had Airline service dating back decades...(Pilgrim, Air New England, Allegheny etc). Military and local traffic sustained it. Today the Eastern Connecticut shoreline has two large casinos, military traffic, beaches, and easy access to the islands...much more potential local traffic than 20 years ago. Provided an airline can operate flights with competitive aircraft to a viable hub (connections as well as local traffic), and promote the route properly, passengers will come. JetBlue to D.C. or even Delta to Atlanta is a safe bet.

Is GON actively seeking scheduled air service? It has not had any in 15+ years. Given that length of time I'm skeptical as to service returning without some sort of concerted effort on the part of the airport/city/state.

PVD is closer to GON than BDL is and its a quick ride up I-95 as opposed to the multi route drive to BDL. GON never had as far back I can remember much airline service but only at the end there were B1900's to PHL and those had low load factors.

Not many airlines served the city at once, but there was consistent service for many years. Remember Pilgrim Airlines and their twin otters and F-27’s? PVD is indeed not far up I-95 but traffic delays on that stretch, especially with beach traffic in the summer is often brutal. The state is pushing for service there again as are local interests.

CairnterriAIR wrote:

airlineworker wrote:

HVNandrew wrote:

Is GON actively seeking scheduled air service? It has not had any in 15+ years. Given that length of time I'm skeptical as to service returning without some sort of concerted effort on the part of the airport/city/state.

PVD is closer to GON than BDL is and its a quick ride up I-95 as opposed to the multi route drive to BDL. GON never had as far back I can remember much airline service but only at the end there were B1900's to PHL and those had low load factors.

Not many airlines served the city at once, but there was consistent service for many years. Remember Pilgrim Airlines and their twin otters and F-27’s? PVD is indeed not far up I-95 but traffic delays on that stretch, especially with beach traffic in the summer is often brutal. The state is pushing for service there again as are local interests.

ehh, traffic is bad through “crash alley” on 95 south of new london until about branford. north of the gold star, it doesn’t usually get that bad. because employees can’t live south of GON unless they live on a boat, most of the GDEB employees who have to travel own homes in towns that are easy drives to PVD (living in RI has tax advantages over CT) or BDL.

i think one of GON’s problems is that companies in the area that would be key to sustaining profitable air service have developed their own private ops. GDEB has the shuttle to virginia, whelen has their own jet.... heck, taylor swift has two.

airlineworker wrote:

CairnterriAIR wrote:

airlineworker wrote:

PVD is closer to GON than BDL is and its a quick ride up I-95 as opposed to the multi route drive to BDL. GON never had as far back I can remember much airline service but only at the end there were B1900's to PHL and those had low load factors.

Not many airlines served the city at once, but there was consistent service for many years. Remember Pilgrim Airlines and their twin otters and F-27’s? PVD is indeed not far up I-95 but traffic delays on that stretch, especially with beach traffic in the summer is often brutal. The state is pushing for service there again as are local interests.

I don't see the state helping any other state airport to gain airline service as evidenced by its opposition to HVN's runway plans.
The state is pushing very hard against the New Haven airport and its plan to pave the turf overruns which will allow more airlines to start new service. Two trials later and the federal court of appeals will render a decision soon. The states motive all along has been to keep BDL as the only commercial airport in the state. It seems HVN has found a combination that works for its present runway, the CRJ-700 has worked very well and the E-175 should do well also as they do at HHH with its 5000 foot runway.
The state years ago said it would assist HVN in removing a tree from the flight path to runway 20, the tree is still standing and yet last year crews were cutting trees around BDL, a double standard as they view any other instate airport as a threat to BDL. Starting in May at HVN, AA's CLT-HVN flight goes from a CRJ-200 to a CRJ-700 and the PHL-HVN flights go from 3 CRJ-200's to one CRJ-200, one CRJ-700 and an E-175 and making the 3 flights daily as now the Saturday schedule is 2 flights. Over the years the state did nothing to upgrade the runway at HVN and has fought to keep that from happening but has given BDR 7 million for a new terminal for an airport that can never have major airline service again due to its 4700 foot runway and EMAS overruns that cannot be paved over and its flooding issues due to its elevation and nearness to water.
I've done the I-95 to PVD and never had a problem but I guess at times there could be traffic issues.

Your responses sound like another member on this site.

Frontier’s very first flight into BTV happened to be an A320NEO, reg N329FR, Trixie the Fox:

With WN ending BDL-LAS, I feel this may be a good opportunity for Spirit to jump on this route. BDL has had LAS service on/off since the early 2000's, I believe America West was the first to offer non stop flights when LAS was a hub in the early 2000's. When America West left I believe Delta flew the route for a short time around 2009/2010 time frame. After Delta left Southwest served for the past few years seasonally March-November. Am I missing anything?

uconn99 wrote:

With WN ending BDL-LAS, I feel this may be a good opportunity for Spirit to jump on this route. BDL has had LAS service on/off since the early 2000's, I believe America West was the first to offer non stop flights when LAS was a hub in the early 2000's. When America West left I believe Delta flew the route for a short time around 2009/2010 time frame. After Delta left Southwest served for the past few years seasonally March-November. Am I missing anything?

I’m sure either Spirit or Fronteir will jump on that route if Southwest doesn’t resume. If anything running it a few days a week. Though with the increasing numbers of casinos in Southern New England will the hard core gamblers still feel the need to make weekend runs to Vegas?

CairnterriAIR wrote:

I’m sure either Spirit or Fronteir will jump on that route if Southwest doesn’t resume. If anything running it a few days a week. Though with the increasing numbers of casinos in Southern New England will the hard core gamblers still feel the need to make weekend runs to Vegas?

Most travelers to Vegas are no longer "Hard core gamblers." It's become much more dynamic of a City than that and a real entertainment capital that attracts visitors for the alcohol, partying, dining and shows/entertainment....gambling itself not really a draw. I doubt the new casino in Springfield has any impact on BDL-LAS.

Vegas is also huge for various industry trade shows and conventions and I am sure there are plenty of Southern New Englad roots living in the Vegs metro area, similar to Phoenix.

Looks like DL is adding a 2nd daily for BTV-ATL for the summer. With AA retrenching a tad bit (5 dailies to PHL this summer vs 6--all mainline--dailies last year) it's nice to DL fill a void a bit that should keep price pressure on UA.

Looks like the 2nd ATL flight is a CRJ900, while former mainline flight is still an A320.

On a slightly different note, during the Frontier press conference Saturday (start of MCO service) the airport director said BTV thinks F9 will lead to 4,000 additional enplanements (all incremental/organic) each month.

btvhopper wrote:

Looks like DL is adding a 2nd daily for BTV-ATL for the summer. With AA retrenching a tad bit (5 dailies to PHL this summer vs 6--all mainline--dailies last year) it's nice to DL fill a void a bit that should keep price pressure on UA.

Looks like the 2nd ATL flight is a CRJ900, while former mainline flight is still an A320.

On a slightly different note, during the Frontier press conference Saturday (start of MCO service) the airport director said BTV thinks F9 will lead to 4,000 additional enplanements (all incremental/organic) each month.

So far I only see the second ATL frequency loaded for June. Kind of strange it wasn't loaded through the summer like other DL route updates. My check showed that the A320 switches to a 737-700 during later June.

It looks like MHT's lone frequency goes A320 for the summer. I find it puzzling that they can fill an A320 during most of the year and they can't offer a single CR7 or CR9 during January and February.

LotsaRunway wrote:

btvhopper wrote:

Looks like DL is adding a 2nd daily for BTV-ATL for the summer. With AA retrenching a tad bit (5 dailies to PHL this summer vs 6--all mainline--dailies last year) it's nice to DL fill a void a bit that should keep price pressure on UA.

Looks like the 2nd ATL flight is a CRJ900, while former mainline flight is still an A320.

On a slightly different note, during the Frontier press conference Saturday (start of MCO service) the airport director said BTV thinks F9 will lead to 4,000 additional enplanements (all incremental/organic) each month.

So far I only see the second ATL frequency loaded for June. Kind of strange it wasn't loaded through the summer like other DL route updates. My check showed that the A320 switches to a 737-700 during later June.

It looks like MHT's lone frequency goes A320 for the summer. I find it puzzling that they can fill an A320 during most of the year and they can't offer a single CR7 or CR9 during January and February.

If you are going off the OAG post they only list changes from the same month the previous year. It looks like DL does have two dailies in July and August but they did last year as well so the OAG list would not show anything.

It seems WN has some weather issues at BWI and are doing some interesting cancellations. PVD had it's first 3 flights to BWI cancelled this morning. MHT is losing a bunch, but WN has scheduled a 8000 numbered flight to BWI just minutes after a scheduled flight that is cancelled. BDL and PWM have cancellations, but BOS is minimally affected. Seems strange they don't spread the pain proportionately.

mjgbtv wrote:

If you are going off the OAG post they only list changes from the same month the previous year. It looks like DL does have two dailies in July and August but they did last year as well so the OAG list would not show anything.

Did they last year? IIRC it was only one daily to ATL (and usually A320, sometimes substituted out for 737-7 FWIW).

Looks like this second daily starts around June 6th through August 15th or so.

LotsaRunway wrote:

btvhopper wrote:

Looks like DL is adding a 2nd daily for BTV-ATL for the summer. With AA retrenching a tad bit (5 dailies to PHL this summer vs 6--all mainline--dailies last year) it's nice to DL fill a void a bit that should keep price pressure on UA.

Looks like the 2nd ATL flight is a CRJ900, while former mainline flight is still an A320.

On a slightly different note, during the Frontier press conference Saturday (start of MCO service) the airport director said BTV thinks F9 will lead to 4,000 additional enplanements (all incremental/organic) each month.

So far I only see the second ATL frequency loaded for June. Kind of strange it wasn't loaded through the summer like other DL route updates. My check showed that the A320 switches to a 737-700 during later June.

It looks like MHT's lone frequency goes A320 for the summer. I find it puzzling that they can fill an A320 during most of the year and they can't offer a single CR7 or CR9 during January and February.

I wonder when PWM will stop getting DL MD-90's and MD-88's. They've been a staple at the Jetport for a while now. I still see MD's loaded on the DL PWM-ATL schedule through December.

btvhopper wrote:

mjgbtv wrote:

If you are going off the OAG post they only list changes from the same month the previous year. It looks like DL does have two dailies in July and August but they did last year as well so the OAG list would not show anything.

Did they last year? IIRC it was only one daily to ATL (and usually A320, sometimes substituted out for 737-7 FWIW).

Looks like this second daily starts around June 6th through August 15th or so.

DL mainline flew 54 flights last July and 43 last August, and I think those would all have been ATL, so it had to be 2x per day for a lot of the summer. I was thinking both were 717s.

btvhopper wrote:

Did they last year? IIRC it was only one daily to ATL (and usually A320, sometimes substituted out for 737-7 FWIW).

Looks like this second daily starts around June 6th through August 15th or so.

Yup they did. Mid-June to late August was an originator and mid-day turn, both on 717s. I was skeptical that it would come back for 2019 with the added JFK service--the original intent was to route TATL traffic via ATL that was being lost to UA/AA... But apparently they're making enough money off of both to keep them around. Now the gate space in the south concourse is just a disaster for the originators. "Vision 2030" needs to get going like--yesterday.

Wondering if this is a new aircraft for Elite Air? This former Skywest CRJ7, N224AG, ferried yesterday from where it's been in storage at TUS since 2016, to LEW, where Elite opened up a new maintainence facility last month in the hanger Lufthansa constructed to overhaul the Constellation. I've been watching Flightaware since they announced last month that they would start doing maintainence at the LEW facility shortly, but this is the first airliner I've seen arrive.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N224AG

btvhopper wrote:

Looks like DL is adding a 2nd daily for BTV-ATL for the summer. With AA retrenching a tad bit (5 dailies to PHL this summer vs 6--all mainline--dailies last year) it's nice to DL fill a void a bit that should keep price pressure on UA.

Looks like the 2nd ATL flight is a CRJ900, while former mainline flight is still an A320.

On a slightly different note, during the Frontier press conference Saturday (start of MCO service) the airport director said BTV thinks F9 will lead to 4,000 additional enplanements (all incremental/organic) each month.

With the Denver flights being on A320s it seems hard to imagine BTV won't have another record setting summer. Pricing remains competative on most routes, which is the best thing for the airport which is awesome!

It will be interesting to see how the Denver flights go. Hopefully not summer only and roll into winter.

I don't usually point out weather diversions, but found this one interesting. DL 1998 BOS-LGA is currently arriving at PWM, after flying all the way to NYC before diverting back to PWM. The flight will be three hours when the plane lands in ten minutes.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL ... /KBOS/KPWM

There's going to be 110 annoyed passengers spending the night in Portland, especially after being so close to LGA! I would have diverted them south to ABE or AVP which is only getting rain and where DL serves both markets.

A USAF C-17 landed at PWM a few days ago. That might be one of the largest aircraft the jetport has ever handled. On the civilian side, has PWM ever hosted anyting larger than an A310??

Always heard that the L1011 flown by FedEx in previous years was considered the largest non military aircraft to use PWM. Not sure how it compares in size to a 757, 767 or even the variations of Air Force One (757 version?) that have landed at the jetport in the past. Fex180, this is certainly your area of expertise and I think the L1011's were using the runway when it was only at 6800 ft. Was not aware that an A310 ever landed at Portland, who flew it and was it a diversion? Is it safe to assume that Frontier's A321 is the largest commercial plane currently using PWM? Can anyone tell me what is the main determining factor in aircraft size, is it wingspan, weight, length or amount of passengers it can carry? Thanks.

Fex180 wrote:

A USAF C-17 landed at PWM a few days ago. That might be one of the largest aircraft the jetport has ever handled. On the civilian side, has PWM ever hosted anyting larger than an A310??

"

Yes, there's a FedEx A300 there this morning. The largest plane that's ever landed was a USAF KC-10, about ten years ago, when it came for the air show thing the airport does in May. C-17shave been here numerous times. The last last time was to bring Obama's motorcade. But they've come on other occasions.

Portlander wrote:

Always heard that the L1011 flown by FEDEX in previous years was considered the largest non military aircraft to use PWM. Not sure how it compares in size to a 757, 767 or even the variations of Air Force One (757 version?) that have landed at the jetport in the past. Fex180, this is certainly your area of expertise and I think the L1011's were using the runway when it was only at 6800 ft. Was not aware that an A310 ever landed at Portland, who flew it and was it a diversion? Is a A321 larger than a 757?

FedEx has never flown the L-1011. The largest they've flown here is the A300, which there is one of on the ramp this morning. During Christmas season, the A300 and A310 are common at PWM. The -310 subs in somewhat reguarly

Thanks hopper, can't always believe what you hear. You are without question the PWM historian!

Portlander wrote:

Thanks hopper, can't always believe what you hear. You are without question the PWM historian!

Here are a few photos of the KC-10 at PWM, June 2009





Also, I believe there were two heavy Fedex on the ramp this morning? Yesterdays morning FX arrival was an A310. (N809FD, one of only about a half dozen -310 remaining in the fleet.) It made missed approach followed by an emergency landing which closed the main runway according to the PWM Twitter feed. I didn't see it depart again later in the day on Flightaware, and this morning they brought in the A300. Maybe with parts? Still not sure what the reason was for the emergency landing?

It seems kind of crazy a flight as short as BOS-LGA would be allowed to take off if it wasn't going to be ok to land? We are talking 180 miles! The plane on takeoff is getting ready to be lined up in the hold to land into LGA. Seems like it should have just been delayed in BOS. Longer flights sure if you leave Florida, its hard to know what the weather will be like in NY, but they left from BOS.

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:

It seems kind of crazy a flight as short as BOS-LGA would be allowed to take off if it wasn't going to be ok to land? We are talking 180 miles! The plane on takeoff is getting ready to be lined up in the hold to land into LGA. Seems like it should have just been delayed in BOS. Longer flights sure if you leave Florida, its hard to know what the weather will be like in NY, but they left from BOS.

They departed PWM for LGA shortly before midnight, after eight hours on the ground at PWM. I assume a crew deadheaded in from ATL or DTW? So 12 hours to fly from BOS to LGA, or you could say BOS-PWM was a two hour and fourty five minute flight!

So what commercial aircraft is similar in size to a KC-10? Is stature based on weight, wingspan, length or a combination of all three?

Portlander wrote:

So what commercial aircraft is similar in size to a KC-10? Is stature based on weight, wingspan, length or a combination of all three?

DC-10-30

pwm2txlhopper wrote:

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:

It seems kind of crazy a flight as short as BOS-LGA would be allowed to take off if it wasn't going to be ok to land? We are talking 180 miles! The plane on takeoff is getting ready to be lined up in the hold to land into LGA. Seems like it should have just been delayed in BOS. Longer flights sure if you leave Florida, its hard to know what the weather will be like in NY, but they left from BOS.

They departed PWM for LGA shortly before midnight, after eight hours on the ground at PWM. I assume a crew deadheaded in from ATL or DTW? So 12 hours to fly from BOS to LGA, or you could say BOS-PWM was a two hour and fourty five minute flight!

Google Maps says it would take 22 hours to ride a bike from NYC to Boston just from perspective. Rough day for those flyers. Hope they were allowed off the plane.

I asked the Air Force pilot who flew the plane in several years ago, he mentioned that the plane was empty and had to basically come in on low fuel. It used the full length of the runway. Another example of short runways for big planes, several years ago..Air Force One landed at PVD before the runway expansion. This was the 747 air frame landing on a 7800 ft runway...

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:

It seems kind of crazy a flight as short as BOS-LGA would be allowed to take off if it wasn't going to be ok to land? We are talking 180 miles! The plane on takeoff is getting ready to be lined up in the hold to land into LGA. Seems like it should have just been delayed in BOS. Longer flights sure if you leave Florida, its hard to know what the weather will be like in NY, but they left from BOS.

It looks like they attempted to land twice before diverting, so it was probably at least worth taking off and trying to make it.

paysonmt77 wrote:

I asked the Air Force pilot who flew the plane in several years ago, he mentioned that the plane was empty and had to basically come in on low fuel. It used the full length of the runway. Another example of short runways for big planes, several years ago..Air Force One landed at PVD before the runway expansion. This was the 747 air frame landing on a 7800 ft runway...

PVDs runway was shorter than that. Around 7200ft prior to the extension.

paysonmt77 wrote:

I asked the Air Force pilot who flew the plane in several years ago, he mentioned that the plane was empty and had to basically come in on low fuel. It used the full length of the runway. Another example of short runways for big planes, several years ago..Air Force One landed at PVD before the runway expansion. This was the 747 air frame landing on a 7800 ft runway...

This mainly stems from PWM never seeing the AF1 VC-25 and instead seeing the C-32, and I'm sure I've said this before, but I've not gotten an answer, so I'll ask again: is a 7,188' runway like PWM's 11/29 not sufficient for the VC-25 (particularly if PVD welcomed it with a prior-to-being-extended runway of 7,200')?

I ask because Runway 9/27 at BOS is 7,001', and BA 747-400s use that all the time, landing on 27 (including today!) and taking off from 9. Can't even count the number of times I've seen widebodies (e.g. BA 744s/EI A333s/DY 789s) on 9/27.

Now I understand that not all wide bodies (even within the same type and series) are created equal, that those aforementioned 747s are flying 3,200 mile hops and are relatively light as a result to the Super-High J configuration that is often used on flights between LHR and BOS, and that a "7,000 footer" gives pilots less margin for error, but I am curious as to why -- having seen numerous 747s land and take off from 9/27 -- there seems to be the feeling that a 7,200' runway like PWM is "short." Is that the way it used to be? Is that the way it still is, and BA's Super-High J 744s are an exception?

Yes BGR and PSM which have much longer runways see the VC-25, and sometimes it dovetails with the President taking a helicopter from one of those airports to Portland, but, based on my own gut instinct, I feel like an AF1 VC-25 should be able to operate into and out of PWM. Evidently the people who operate them disagree, and I am trying to bridge the gap between what they know regarding PWM and its limitations and what I know. Given my aforementioned experience seeing a number of 744s operate on an even shorter runway, my initial inclination was that it was ramp/taxi space, but pwm2txlhopper stated that this wasn't the case. If not for runway/ramp/taxi space, where is PWM falling short that makes it unable (or the powers that be unwilling) to handle the VC-25?

33lspotter wrote:

paysonmt77 wrote:

I asked the Air Force pilot who flew the plane in several years ago, he mentioned that the plane was empty and had to basically come in on low fuel. It used the full length of the runway. Another example of short runways for big planes, several years ago..Air Force One landed at PVD before the runway expansion. This was the 747 air frame landing on a 7800 ft runway...

This mainly stems from PWM never seeing the AF1 VC-25 and instead seeing the C-32, and I'm sure I've said this before, but I've not gotten an answer, so I'll ask again: is a 7,188' runway like PWM's 11/29 not sufficient for the VC-25 (particularly if PVD welcomed it with a prior-to-being-extended runway of 7,200')?

I ask because Runway 9/27 at BOS is 7,001', and BA 747-400s use that all the time, landing on 27 (including today!) and taking off from 9. Can't even count the number of times I've seen widebodies (e.g. BA 744s/EI A333s/DY 789s) on 9/27.

It’s the lack of ramp space to park it, not because the runway isn’t capable of handling a lightly fueled and loaded 747. Look at a satellite image on Google. The only place for a plane with that wingspand is the cargo ramp, and Fedex usually has a plane there.

As far as VC-25s serving as AF 1, there isn’t anywhere secluded enough away from fence lines and public roadways closeby to park it and set up a security perimeter. The holding pads off the main passenger ramp are less than 200 feet from the road. And about as close to the terminal. Secret Service doesn’t want people that close.

pwm2txlhopper wrote:

It’s the lack of ramp space to park it, not because the runway isn’t capable of handling a lightly fueled and loaded 747. Look at a satellite image on Google. The only place for a plane with that wingspand is the cargo ramp, and Fedex usually has a plane there.

As far as VC-25s serving as AF 1, there isn’t anywhere secluded enough away from fence lines and public roadways closeby to park it and set up a security perimeter. The holding pads off the main passenger ramp are less than 200 feet from the road. Secret service doesn’t want people that close.

Interesting, I had guessed ramp space might be an issue but had no idea about the SS preferences, which makes sense. Thanks.

Speaking of PWM, it looks like UA is cutting back a bit on summer service. No mainline IAD flights this year, and EWR only has mainline frequency (A319 or 738) ORD is 3x daily with 2 frequencies using an A319.

paysonmt77 wrote:

I asked the Air Force pilot who flew the plane in several years ago, he mentioned that the plane was empty and had to basically come in on low fuel. It used the full length of the runway. Another example of short runways for big planes, several years ago..Air Force One landed at PVD before the runway expansion. This was the 747 air frame landing on a 7800 ft runway...

Runway 5-23 was 7166' at that time, though short, it was/is weight rated for just about anything that flies. A 747-400 almost empty like Air Force One, had not the slightest issue on the short hop to Andrews AFB. Nor was it an issue for the C5s during the blizzard of '78 or the BA Concorde which was only headed to JFK upon departure. The radius of the taxiway turns is another important consideration to move big birds around once on the ground. A recent 744 NFL charter arrived and departed to LAX with ease off 5-23, now 8700'

United just announced seasonal Saturday and Sunday service from PWM and DEN.

‘Jetport adds nonstop flights to Denver’

https://www.pressherald.com/2019/02/14/ ... to-denver/

United wants F9 out of their premium strongholds at BTV and PWM.

Does UA have there own ground crews at BTV and PWM?

United uses United Ground Express which is a subsidiary of United at PWM

RL757PVD wrote:

United wants F9 out of their premium strongholds at BTV and PWM.

When will UA want F9 out of the Denver market at PVD? Lol

RL757PVD wrote:

United wants F9 out of their premium strongholds at BTV and PWM.

PWM-DEN is arguably one of the most successful routes Frontier added in 2018. I would imagine F9 won't just give up.

RL757PVD wrote:

United wants F9 out of their premium strongholds at BTV and PWM.

PWM-DEN is arguably one of the most successful routes Frontier added in 2018. I would imagine F9 won't just give up.

Fex180 wrote:

RL757PVD wrote:

United wants F9 out of their premium strongholds at BTV and PWM.

PWM-DEN is arguably one of the most successful routes Frontier added in 2018. I would imagine F9 won't just give up.

What is that based on? PVD-TPA was over 90-95% full all last summer and they aren't flying it this summer...