Quite true, but are there markets from BOS that are not served over places like EWR, PHL, JFK?

(duplicate post deleted)

802flyguy wrote:

As the article notes, there were once a great many BOS-BTV flights, on several carriers. But each of those carriers apparently found the market to be less than profitable. What has changed to make it potentially better?

Unless roads are bad, the drive is not much than three hours.

I agree that both JetBlue and Delta now have enough routes from BOS to add some connecting traffic to whatever O&D there is. I'm not sure how much more it offers for Delta than the existing hubs, but BOS could be more attractive than JFK on JetBlue.

802flyguy wrote:

As the article notes, there were once a great many BOS-BTV flights, on several carriers. But each of those carriers apparently found the market to be less than profitable. What has changed to make it potentially better?

Unless roads are bad, the drive is not much than three hours.

25-30+ years ago, BOS was the Hub of New England for places like BTV, BGR, PWM, PQI, MHT, PVD, BDL, LEB, ALB, RUT, etc. Both DL and US had a strong presence for connections from smaller New England cities. Often served by Delta Connection-BEX and US Express. Traveling intra New England was a lot more practical then. However, those days are over and I don't see them coming back unless turboprops make a comeback.

You haven't been able to fly PWM or BGR to BOS for about 15 years now.

pwm2txlhopper wrote:

You haven't been able to fly PWM or BGR to BOS for about 15 years now.

I thought DL operated BGR-BOS up until about 2010.

In another article a member of the Chamber of Commerce said the service to BOS has come down to two cities--BTV and ROC. In other words, they're definitely in talks with someone. DL is of course would be the natural fit, but could it be B6 or even some UA RON mainline?

Regarding demand I imagine it will be entirely connecting and O&D business traffic. You hear about the desire for this route all the time...but the fundamentals don't seem to add up. Connections are inferior to other hubs and you barely save time compared to driving for O&D.

https://www.mychamplainvalley.com/news/ ... 1797478863

btvhopper wrote:

In another article a member of the Chamber of Commerce said the service to BOS has come down to two cities--BTV and ROC. In other words, they're definitely in talks with someone. DL is of course would be the natural fit, but could it be B6 or even some UA RON mainline?

Regarding demand I imagine it will be entirely connecting and O&D business traffic. You hear about the desire for this route all the time...but the fundamentals don't seem to add up. Connections are inferior to other hubs and you barely save time compared to driving for O&D.

https://www.mychamplainvalley.com/news/ ... 1797478863

B6 and AA already off the ROC-BOS route....so presumably that would leave DL as the airline by process of elimination?

btvhopper wrote:

In another article a member of the Chamber of Commerce said the service to BOS has come down to two cities--BTV and ROC. In other words, they're definitely in talks with someone. DL is of course would be the natural fit, but could it be B6 or even some UA RON mainline?

Regarding demand I imagine it will be entirely connecting and O&D business traffic. You hear about the desire for this route all the time...but the fundamentals don't seem to add up. Connections are inferior to other hubs and you barely save time compared to driving for O&D.

https://www..com/news/local-news/btv-ne ... 1797478863

A bit odd how it’s supposedly either BTV or ROC. The latter is an over six hour drive, where there is a time saving with flying. There really isn’t much in the case of BTV. (When it it’s not snowing)

ROC certainly makes more sense on the face of it, but as noted there are already two airlines serving ROC-BOS, so that should make it a bit more difficult choice. It still seems strange to me that DL would want to make it a 3-way competition at ROC.

Regarding connections, I would much rather make a B6 connection at BOS than JFK. For DL I don't know if BOS offers many advantages over DTW/ATL.

Concord Coach and C&J Trailways basically is the turboprop commuter line of Logan which came in place after Business Express and other props folded going to BOS. With over 10 runs from Portland, there would never be a flight to BOS and being 2 hours away makes no sense. BTV has greyhound to South Station and I think thats it and Amtrak. Thinking....I see this as Jetblue possibly pulling out of ROC and BTV and replacing it with Cape Air to BOS allowing easy transfer to jetblue flights. Think about it...It works in Jetblue favor to rid two stations and funnel everyone to Boston instead of JFK . BTV just flys to JFK and ROC goes to BOS and JFK...PWM would stay as a seasonal station. Thoughts?????

Fex180 wrote:

pwm2txlhopper wrote:

You haven't been able to fly PWM or BGR to BOS for about 15 years now.

I thought DL operated BGR-BOS up until about 2010.

BGR-BOS ended during the same time frame PWM-BOS did. Probably about five years earlier than 2010? Don't even remember the carrier that was flying as Delta Connection, as BEX has become AA Eagle around 2001 and another regional took over using Dornier 328 Jets on DL connection flights BOS.

paysonmt77 wrote:

Concord Coach and C&J Trailways basically is the turboprop commuter line of Logan which came in place after Business Express and other props folded going to BOS. With over 10 runs from Portland, there would never be a flight to BOS and being 2 hours away makes no sense. BTV has greyhound to South Station and I think thats it and Amtrak. Thinking....I see this as Jetblue possibly pulling out of ROC and BTV and replacing it with Cape Air to BOS allowing easy transfer to jetblue flights. Think about it...It works in Jetblue favor to rid two stations and funnel everyone to Boston instead of JFK . BTV just flys to JFK and ROC goes to BOS and JFK...PWM would stay as a seasonal station. Thoughts?????

It makes sense as a fighting retreat for JetBlue from BTV/ROC, but it would hardly be a net gain for either airport so the idea of 'competing' for this seems incongruous. I also question if JetBlue wants to leave either ROC or BTV that badly.

pwm2txlhopper wrote:

Fex180 wrote:

pwm2txlhopper wrote:

You haven't been able to fly PWM or BGR to BOS for about 15 years now.

I thought DL operated BGR-BOS up until about 2010.

BGR-BOS ended during the same time frame PWM-BOS did. Probably about five years earlier than 2010? Don'tn even remember the carrier that was flying as Delta Connection, as BEX has become AA Eagle around 2001 and another regional took over using Dornier 328 Jets on DL connection flights BOS.

Atlantic Coast, before its ill fated rebrand Independence Air stand alone attempt.
They flew for both DL and UA.

pwm2txlhopper wrote:

Fex180 wrote:

pwm2txlhopper wrote:

You haven't been able to fly PWM or BGR to BOS for about 15 years now.

I thought DL operated BGR-BOS up until about 2010.

BGR-BOS ended during the same time frame PWM-BOS did. Probably about five years earlier than 2010? Don't even remember the carrier that was flying as Delta Connection, as BEX has become AA Eagle around 2001 and another regional took over using Dornier 328 Jets on DL connection flights BOS.

Wayback machine for the Wikipedia page on BGR shows DL / Comair flying BGR-BOS until December 2009.

https://web.archive.org/web/20090827151 ... al_Airport

btvhopper wrote:

In another article a member of the Chamber of Commerce said the service to BOS has come down to two cities--BTV and ROC. In other words, they're definitely in talks with someone. DL is of course would be the natural fit, but could it be B6 or even some UA RON mainline?

Regarding demand I imagine it will be entirely connecting and O&D business traffic. You hear about the desire for this route all the time...but the fundamentals don't seem to add up. Connections are inferior to other hubs and you barely save time compared to driving for O&D.

https://www.mychamplainvalley.com/news/ ... 1797478863

It definitely will not be UA - BOS P2P doesn't fit anywhere in their route network or stragegy.

My money would be on DL. BOS-BTV might only be about three and a half hours, but that is not a fun drive in the winter. Plus there are quite a few connecting opportunities there as DL has (re-)built its regional and international presence.

I know Boston has been a long very sought after route. Traffic can be really bad, and its totally unrealistic to ask an employee to drive that on a day trip and not do an overnight hotel. BOS is a sought after route for the business community and if an airline like Delta or B6 will offer connections i think it will work. Right now its easier to have business in DC, Philly, or NYC since they are all commutable on a day trip by plane. Boston is kind of annoying to need to get an employee to no Amtrak, no plane flights.

B6 is possible but it would be 1x a day i bet. Delta with a CR2 maybe they offer 2x on weekdays. Might be nice to have some feed for their Boston Flights.

Blueknows wrote:

So BTV UGE is currently short over 15 employees. If they would go mainline the station would get a huge upgrade. I see BTV Changing to mainline very soon. The contract jobs just can’t do it like the mainline guys/girls. Also mainline pays better and would help attract more people to apply.

UGE, like other carriers at BTV, has rather high employee turnover, but it is surprising that they are that short. With the exception of JetBlue, they have high management turnover as well. (The B6 station manager has been there since day one; wasn’t BTV one of the carrier’s initial cities at startup?). AA actually has two, one for mainline, one for Piedmont.

Fex180 wrote:

pwm2txlhopper wrote:

Fex180 wrote:

I thought DL operated BGR-BOS up until about 2010.

BGR-BOS ended during the same time frame PWM-BOS did. Probably about five years earlier than 2010? Don't even remember the carrier that was flying as Delta Connection, as BEX has become AA Eagle around 2001 and another regional took over using Dornier 328 Jets on DL connection flights BOS.

Wayback machine for the Wikipedia page on BGR shows DL / Comair flying BGR-BOS until December 2009.

https://web.archive.org/web/20090827151 ... al_Airport

If that true, I’ll stand corrected. Departed flights didn’t have anything past 1999.

My knowledge is PWM history 1980-current. However, it is Wiki. Anybody can go on there and post whatever they want. There’s been inaccurate historical things on there about PWM.

802flyguy wrote:

Blueknows wrote:

So BTV UGE is currently short over 15 employees. If they would go mainline the station would get a huge upgrade. I see BTV Changing to mainline very soon. The contract jobs just can’t do it like the mainline guys/girls. Also mainline pays better and would help attract more people to apply.

UGE, like other carriers at BTV, has rather high employee turnover, but it is surprising that they are that short. With the exception of JetBlue, they have high management turnover as well. (The B6 station manager has been there since day one; wasn’t BTV one of the carrier’s initial cities at startup?). AA actually has two, one for mainline, one for Piedmont.

According to B6's history page BTV was the 8th city with service beginning about 7 months after the startup, which was really only one route and probably just one aircraft!

pwm2txlhopper wrote:

Fex180 wrote:

pwm2txlhopper wrote:

BGR-BOS ended during the same time frame PWM-BOS did. Probably about five years earlier than 2010? Don't even remember the carrier that was flying as Delta Connection, as BEX has become AA Eagle around 2001 and another regional took over using Dornier 328 Jets on DL connection flights BOS.

Wayback machine for the Wikipedia page on BGR shows DL / Comair flying BGR-BOS until December 2009.

https://web.archive.org/web/20090827151 ... al_Airport

If that true, I’ll stand corrected. Departed flights didn’t have anything past 1999.

My knowledge is PWM history 1980-current. However, it is Wiki. Anybody can go on there and post whatever they want. There’s been inaccurate historical things on there about PWM.

A wayback capture of the BGR airline page from July 2008 shows mention of its non-stop service to BOS. Couldn't get any captures from 2009, but assuming that BGR updated its website somewhat consistently we can infer that they ran at least through mid-2008.

This is a dumb question, but does BGR get EAS funding? That’s an absolute game changer for getting an airline to serve the BOS route.

(deleted)

(Deleted)

btvhopper wrote:

This is a dumb question, but does BGR get EAS funding? That’s an absolute game changer for getting an airline to serve the BOS route.

Looks like BGR is not EAS eligible.

Jetport Sets All-Time Passenger RecordFebruary 22, 2019
PORTLAND, MAINE - The Portland International Jetport announced today that 2018 was the all-time busiest year in Jetport history. A total of 2,134,430 passengers used the Jetport in 2018, surpassing the 1,862,213 which was the previous record set in 2017. Overall traffic at the Jetport was up 14.6% year-over-year.

“2018 was a tremendous year for the Jetport” said Paul Bradbury, Airport Director. “This is the first time we’ve crossed the two million passenger threshold in a single year, and 14% growth on our all-time record speaks to the strength of the market we serve. Portland is a very popular destination and is further assisted by the overall strength of the Maine market” he continued.

2018 saw many air service highlights including:

Frontier Airlines entering the market adding service to Denver, Raleigh, Orlando, Tampa, and Ft. Myers

American Airlines operating summer seasonal Chicago O’Hare service

American, Delta, Southwest, and United adding larger aircraft to the market on multiple routes

2018 PASSENGER BREAKDOWN:

Enplanements (Passengers Getting On Airplanes) - 1,073,567
Deplanements (Passengers Getting Off Airplanes) - 1,060,863
Total Passengers (Enplanements + Deplanements) - 2,134,430

2018 AIRLINE MARKET SHARE:

American Airlines - 606,029 Passengers (28.39%)
Delta Air Lines - 539,958 Passengers (25.30%)
United Airlines - 428,945 Passengers (20.10%)
Southwest Airlines - 304,200 Passengers (14.25%)
JetBlue Airways - 176,857 Passengers (8.29%)
Frontier Airlines - 63,678 Passengers (2.98%)
Elite Airways - 13,187 Passengers (0.62%)
Charters - 1,576 Passengers (0.07%)

PREVIOUS RECORD YEARS

2018 - 2,134,430
2017 - 1,862,213
2016 - 1,786,942
2008 - 1,691,936

The best news out of this article is that PWM's three legacy airlines are only separated by 8% which keeps prices competitive and provides the Portland market with stability and plenty of route options. Paul Bradbury has done an outstanding job as the airport director! Now that the 2018 enplanements are out, does anyone know how to have Wikipedia delete MHT's claim as the "4th busiest airport in New England by passenger volume" and add it to PWM's narrative?

WN had very good numbers for 2018. I'm really surprised they haven't done more to expand at PWM. I would suspect a lot of it is due to short / medium term fleet issues.

Another article in the Manchester Union Leader today trying to help the cause at MHT. In it, they acknowledge that 'costs' to airlines need to come down but that they can't come down immediately because there are contracts in place preventing them from doing so.

I predict another down year for MHT and a slight uptick for 2020.

AA upping PVD-ORD to 3x through the end of the year. Both UA and AA will bec3x ORD as of May.

from the OAG thread
AA BDL-ORD JUL 4>5[5]
AA ORD-PVD JUN 2>3[2] JUL 2>3[2.0] AUG 2>3[2] SEP 2>3[2] OCT 2>3[2.0] NOV 2>3[1.8] (per PVD757 above)
B6 ACK-LGA JUN 0.3>0.9[0] JUL 0.4>1.4[0] AUG 0.5>1.5[0]
UA BTV-IAD MAY 3>2[3]

It seems like pretty much every airline has staffing issues at BTV. Rent is very high near Burlington, and unemployement rate is low so easier to find a better paying job.

I know Porter had major issues getting part time people with flexible hours who also could stay when planes were delayed or weather etc. They even mentioned it on their reason for leaving. Staffing has been an issue for them for years.

I kind of wonder how frontiers contractor is going to do on staff. Could be a pain point.

2018 enplanements: PWM 2,134,430 MHT 1,818,265 BTV ???????

Portlander wrote:

2018 enplanements: PWM 2,134,430 MHT 1,818,265 BTV ???????

Those are total passengers, not enplanements

My bad, meant to add deplanements also.

ACK is looking to be on track for a big summer. I wonder where are these passengers are staying on the island? No major new hotels have opened that I am aware of. Is demand to the island actually increasing or are people just shifting away from driving/taking to ferry to hopping on a flight?

Portlander wrote:

2018 enplanements: PWM 2,134,430 MHT 1,818,265 BTV ???????

BTV should be around 1,300,000

^ That sounds like a good estimate. BTV had 578,000 enplanements in 2017, an 8% increase would get Burlington to around 625,000 enplanements for last year. That would put the combined enplanements/deplanements close to your figure. Looks like BTV's record was 700,000 enplanements during 2009, so last year may end up being it's second best historically.

Portlander wrote:

^ That sounds like a good estimate. BTV had 578,000 enplanements in 2017, an 8% increase would get Burlington to around 625,000 enplanements for last year. That would put the combined enplanements/deplanements close to your figure. Looks like BTV's record was 700,000 enplanements during 2009, so last year may end up being it's second best historically.

BTV's total enplanements for CY18 were 675,000, a near 14% increase over last year.

Looking at the Airport Commission's meeting minutes doesn't show total PAX for the year, but we can presume it should be around ~1.35M.
https://www.boarddocs.com/vt/burlington ... .Jan19.pdf

Excellent year for Burlington! Close to a record year and with the addition of Frontier it looks like 700,000 enplanements may be within reach for 2019.

Hey everyone. Any rumors or speculation about what the next move for BDL will be? I know the year has started off pretty strong with the addition of Frontier and to a lesser extent gaining service with Viaair. But what about any new destinations. I am so hoping for that direct flight to BDL from Seattle as I work at SEA. Even of it will realistically be on Alaska and not Delta.

Novaboy2525 wrote:

Hey everyone. Any rumors or speculation about what the next move for BDL will be? I know the year has started off pretty strong with the addition of Frontier and to a lesser extent gaining service with Viaair. But what about any new destinations. I am so hoping for that direct flight to BDL from Seattle as I work at SEA. Even of it will realistically be on Alaska and not Delta.

I feel 2019 is going to be a flat year for BDL growth wise. Frontier may help push the number up a bit and Spirit may add a couple more flights (DTW and LAS?) but I don't see a flight like SEA coming on board this year. I feel DL could have an advantage over AS flying the route with Asian connections and a decent domestic NW route map on top of any O&D the flight will have.

Bradley International Airport passenger count rises again in 2018

Air travelers at Bradley International Airport in Windsor Locks rose by 3.6 percent in 2018 compared with the previous year, reaching nearly 6.7 million passengers, the Connecticut Airport Authority announced Wednesday.

The most recent passenger peak came in 2006 with 7.2 million.

Continued reading below:

https://www.courant.com/business/hc-biz ... story.html

btvhopper wrote:

In another article a member of the Chamber of Commerce said the service to BOS has come down to two cities--BTV and ROC. In other words, they're definitely in talks with someone. DL is of course would be the natural fit, but could it be B6 or even some UA RON mainline?

It's looking more and more like DL if it happens. With the B6 BOS announcement today, if BTV-BOS was in the cards, it would have been included. I think we can safely say that DL is the most likely candidate if this moves forward.

uconn99 wrote:

Novaboy2525 wrote:

Hey everyone. Any rumors or speculation about what the next move for BDL will be? I know the year has started off pretty strong with the addition of Frontier and to a lesser extent gaining service with Viaair. But what about any new destinations. I am so hoping for that direct flight to BDL from Seattle as I work at SEA. Even of it will realistically be on Alaska and not Delta.

I feel 2019 is going to be a flat year for BDL growth wise. Frontier may help push the number up a bit and Spirit may add a couple more flights (DTW and LAS?) but I don't see a flight like SEA coming on board this year. I feel DL could have an advantage over AS flying the route with Asian connections and a decent domestic NW route map on top of any O&D the flight will have.

CVG and JAC are the only U.S. destinations with nonstop service out of SEA on DL that aren't currently served by AS.

AS is more likely to add BDL-SEA nonstop service than DL is since most of the domestic nonstop routes that were added out of SEA by DL during the last 5 years are to destinations that already had nonstop service out of SEA on AS.

Final 2018 Enplanements and Regional Market Share for New England's busiest airports:

(1) BOS 20,341,531 70.7% (2) BDL 3,330,743 11.5% (3) PVD * 2,150,000 7.4% (4) PWM 1,073,567 3.7% (5) MHT 926,481 3.2% (6) BTV 674,944 2.3% (7) BGR 303,546 1.1%

* Projection

BGR has received two visits from UA 77Ws — both operating UA49, BOM-EWR — in the last two days. I know that it's a long flight with a lot of headwinds, but I generally think of 757s making fuel stops at BGR, not 77Ws (although there was that one time the EY A380 diverted for fuel, BGR's only A380 visit to date)!

BGR airport is the last us airport before you head over the pond. The runway can take big planes so its a last minute airport if s hits the f and AC needs fuel or my issue

Blueknows wrote:

BGR airport is the last us airport before you head over the pond. The runway can take big planes so its a last minute airport if s hits the f and AC needs fuel or my issue

All very true. My main point was that the fuel stops I picture BGR handling are 757s. If it was closer I might imagine they were medical emergencies/security issue/etc. but the length of the flight (and happening twice in two days) suggests these are fuel diverts.

The only reason B6 would have BOS-BTV is because they need a place to overnight aircraft. BOS has limit space to park planes. So depending on future schedules and or I big are the factor. B6 is not in the biz of connecting customers. Its point to point from BOS. They dont arrange schedule for connections.

Blueknows wrote:

BGR airport is the last us airport before you head over the pond. The runway can take big planes so its a last minute airport if s hits the f and AC needs fuel or my issue

That would actually be PQI, about 150+ miles further north, with a 7000 foot runway. A former USAF SAC interceptor base from the 1950's. Its not set up to handle heavy jets, but is capable in the event of an emergency. Customs available, too. I have seen chartered 737s there on very rare occasion.

And if you really want to be particular, you could even call former Loring AFB the last airport. It's a private use facility only, prior permission required, no services or fuel, but still has a 12,000 foot by 300 wide runway and considered active on aeronautical charts.