Milka wrote:

Since we are on the topic of airports and possible growth options for LOT, Krakow airport just announced its expansion plans. The Terminal will be expanded from 55k to 80k m2 to increase capacity to 12 million. This is the corner stone of the 1 billion PLN airport improvement programme which also includes a new cargo terminal, new taxiways and parking bays. Once completed this will give LOT the opportunity to grow its long-haul operations from Krakow.







Source: https://www.pasazer.com/news/41158/rozb ... kowie.html

That's great to see! I've flown in and out of Krakow multiple times, but have yet to go there since the original terminal expansion that finished in 2016. The only expansion in long-haul operations for LOT I see coming from this are on routes that have high O&D demand to Krakow like from cities with large Polish communities here in the US like Newark/JFK and maybe LAX(probably not)? It would be nice to see LOT open a mini hub at Krakow to feed the potentially new long haul flights, but with Ryanair dominating most European cities, Wizz air joining the action throughout this year, and LOT trying to grow its Budapest hub, I don't see that happening, at least not any time soon. That would be great to see though for sure.

winter wrote:

I’d love for you to show me where the “city completely surrounded the airport”. I literally landed at WAW today I saw empty land with my own eyes, but a quick peek at an aerial photo shows that the land necessary for a third runway is not dense urban development. It’s mostly undeveloped land.

Let me repeat what I already wrote some time ago: the parallel 15R-33L runway at WAW was blocked by certain influential politician, who owns real estate that would be placed directly under final approach to the proposed 33L runway. He even registered on Polish aviation forum some years ago and kept arguing against the new runway until his account was banned and removed.

Yes, I do agree with you, yes, I do realise there's significant room for growth at Okęcie, but we're talking about a parliament-level politician here, not some local anti-airport activist or NIMBY. He's the one to be blamed for the situation WAW is in and lack of further runway development. Heck, I'll even give you his name: Janusz Piechociński.

I hope this clears up the situation for you.

BlueSky1976 wrote:

winter wrote:

I’d love for you to show me where the “city completely surrounded the airport”. I literally landed at WAW today I saw empty land with my own eyes, but a quick peek at an aerial photo shows that the land necessary for a third runway is not dense urban development. It’s mostly undeveloped land.

Let me repeat what I already wrote some time ago: the parallel 15R-33L runway at WAW was blocked by certain influential politician, who owns real estate that would be placed directly under final approach to the proposed 33L runway. He even registered on Polish aviation forum some years ago and kept arguing against the new runway until his account was banned and removed.

Yes, I do agree with you, yes, I do realise there's significant room for growth at Okęcie, but we're talking about a parliament-level politician here, not some local anti-airport activist or NIMBY. He's the one to be blamed for the situation WAW is in and lack of further runway development. Heck, I'll even give you his name: Janusz Piechociński.

I hope this clears up the situation for you.

This politician nowadays doesn’t have much clout, does he?

konkret wrote:

This politician nowadays doesn’t have much clout, does he?

He was Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Economy from 2012 until 2015, he's irrelevant now.

teomeo wrote:

While its Boeing 737 MAX 8s are grounded until further notice, LOT Polish Airlines will operate several flights - until the end of March, at least - with two 737-800s Go2Sky (OM-GTG, OM-GTF) and one 737-400 GetJet (LY-GTW).

via http://www.facebook.com/104563622953080 ... 527286236/

Sorry if discussed before, any idea if LOT found a solution for the summer ops?! There were rumours of more BlueAir B737-800...

PKP Intercity (Polish state rail company) has announced a 4x daily direct service from Łódź central station to Chopin airport. https://www.pasazer.com/news/41161/pkp,intercity,dowiezie,pasazerow,z,lodzi,na,lotnisko,chopina.html (link in Polish)

emuwarveteran wrote:

konkret wrote:

This politician nowadays doesn’t have much clout, does he?

He was Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Economy from 2012 until 2015, he's irrelevant now.

You'd be surprised...
Him and others like him are still very influencial when it comes to opposing any growth of Okęcie, as far as any new runway planning goes. There's a reason why CPL agenda is so intense these days. They may be in opposing camps, but they'll sing in unison as soon as any idea to build parallel 15-33 runway at WAW comes up.

PRG is seeking direct flights to ATL.

Got me thinking, when is LOT going to launch IAD? Possibly SFO and IAH?

emuwarveteran wrote:

PRG is seeking direct flights to ATL.

Got me thinking, when is LOT going to launch IAD? Possibly SFO and IAH?

Definitely not this year, in my opinion they should hold off on the long haul expansion for a bit so that they're not overexposed when the next recession hits, which everyone seems to be saying is soon. That said, they are to receive 3 more 787-9s by the end of the year (I think, may be wrong on the timeline) and will have to fly them somewhere.

tomgle wrote:

emuwarveteran wrote:

PRG is seeking direct flights to ATL.

Got me thinking, when is LOT going to launch IAD? Possibly SFO and IAH?

Definitely not this year, in my opinion they should hold off on the long haul expansion for a bit so that they're not overexposed when the next recession hits, which everyone seems to be saying is soon. That said, they are to receive 3 more 787-9s by the end of the year (I think, may be wrong on the timeline) and will have to fly them somewhere.

I agree. But if I write that, the usual suspects here accuse me of being a hater... Or envious of LO or Poland (because of my user name)... Anyhow, I believe your analysis is correct. It's not easy being LOT management. Bet your money on long-haul and risk losing it all, or have no or very limited long-haul and become an irrelevant player (à la RO, or worse, à la MA).

emuwarveteran wrote:

PRG is seeking direct flights to ATL.

Got me thinking, when is LOT going to launch IAD? Possibly SFO and IAH?

I’m not sure those will happen. They will be too busy now to think about anything else. Right now in the summer plans they need all the 787s everyday except 2 for regular maintenance, and the issue is that they are down 3. Every time one gets going, another one goes offline. Looks like RR is not going to meet the Summer deadline to get more or fix the engines for LOT by summer schedule. 737Max issues now will go into August or later so they might use the 787-8 more on European routes.

Plus if they add BUD to Seoul later in the year, and winter charters then I’m not sure how much flex they will have with the fleet to add more lh routes.

SRQLOT wrote:

emuwarveteran wrote:

PRG is seeking direct flights to ATL.

Got me thinking, when is LOT going to launch IAD? Possibly SFO and IAH?

I’m not sure those will happen. They will be too busy now to think about anything else. Right now in the summer plans they need all the 787s everyday except 2 for regular maintenance, and the issue is that they are down 3. Every time one gets going, another one goes offline. Looks like RR is not going to meet the Summer deadline to get more or fix the engines for LOT by summer schedule. 737Max issues now will go into August or later so they might use the 787-8 more on European routes.

Plus if they add BUD to Seoul later in the year, and winter charters then I’m not sure how much flex they will have with the fleet to add more lh routes.

I think they might have Seoul replace Chicago, which was performing pretty badly (even worse than JFK). I know that routes take time to mature, but many airlines would want to wait for that to happen when a route has ~40% load factors, especially an airline the size of LOT.

tomgle wrote:

SRQLOT wrote:

emuwarveteran wrote:

PRG is seeking direct flights to ATL.

Got me thinking, when is LOT going to launch IAD? Possibly SFO and IAH?

I’m not sure those will happen. They will be too busy now to think about anything else. Right now in the summer plans they need all the 787s everyday except 2 for regular maintenance, and the issue is that they are down 3. Every time one gets going, another one goes offline. Looks like RR is not going to meet the Summer deadline to get more or fix the engines for LOT by summer schedule. 737Max issues now will go into August or later so they might use the 787-8 more on European routes.

Plus if they add BUD to Seoul later in the year, and winter charters then I’m not sure how much flex they will have with the fleet to add more lh routes.

I think they might have Seoul replace Chicago, which was performing pretty badly (even worse than JFK). I know that routes take time to mature, but many airlines would want to wait for that to happen when a route has ~40% load factors, especially an airline the size of LOT.

I take it you mean out of BUD?

MalevTU134 wrote:

tomgle wrote:

SRQLOT wrote:

I’m not sure those will happen. They will be too busy now to think about anything else. Right now in the summer plans they need all the 787s everyday except 2 for regular maintenance, and the issue is that they are down 3. Every time one gets going, another one goes offline. Looks like RR is not going to meet the Summer deadline to get more or fix the engines for LOT by summer schedule. 737Max issues now will go into August or later so they might use the 787-8 more on European routes.

Plus if they add BUD to Seoul later in the year, and winter charters then I’m not sure how much flex they will have with the fleet to add more lh routes.

I think they might have Seoul replace Chicago, which was performing pretty badly (even worse than JFK). I know that routes take time to mature, but many airlines would want to wait for that to happen when a route has ~40% load factors, especially an airline the size of LOT.

I take it you mean out of BUD?

Yep.

tomgle wrote:

PKP Intercity (Polish state rail company) has announced a 4x daily direct service from Łódź central station to Chopin airport. https://www.pasazer.com/news/41161/pkp,intercity,dowiezie,pasazerow,z,lodzi,na,lotnisko,chopina.html (link in Polish)

I have a feeling that this and the new airport will be the death of LCJ passenger traffic

emuwarveteran wrote:

I have a feeling that this and the new airport will be the death of LCJ passenger traffic

LCJ has been in it's death rattle for some time now, the sooner they close it the better. Pointless airport that is 2-3hs drive away from WAW, KTW, POZ or GDN.

LOT is going to make some room in WAW for the summer. Moving 13 charter destinations for Rainbow Tours for the summer to KTW, with one 737-800 based there.

https://www.pasazer.com/mobi/news/41159 ... tours.html


WAW and PPL want charters out of there by 2021. Enter Air is going to fly one destination from WMI for the summer. Wonder how much more push other charter operators will do this year. I guess the sooner you get out of WAW the better deals you’ll get at other airports. Since Radom is so unpopular of a decision, it will be interesting to see what other regional airports will benefit.

tomgle wrote:

That said, they are to receive 3 more 787-9s by the end of the year (I think, may be wrong on the timeline) and will have to fly them somewhere.

If you check this photo of Jennifer Schuld, you can see the SP-LSE, the fifth 787-9 for LOT at Everett Paine Field stall number 102: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D4YcvmtU4AAVCh6.jpg (she is visible above the 777F's nose). Her maiden flight will be at 19th of April, her acceptance flight will be at 23th of April and she will be delivered around 30th of April.

Aircraft line number 855 is for LOT too. She is at the final assembly line at Everett in building 40-26. She is in the 3rd position, her rollout planned to be around 24th of April. So she will be able to join the fleet of LOT at the end of May. At that time they will have 6 787-9s and 6 787-8s (and of course the SP-LRD and SP-LRH as 787-8 Gliders...).

Aircraft line number 920 will be built at Charleston and for LOT too. Her final assembly will start in Autumn. She will be the first Boeing produced aircraft that will be built outside of the Seattle area for LOT.

All data came from Uresh Sheth's database: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FH3Y2-vRUgojntPkCSJI5Pd-15rsJ1a0SFCRaT-iqgo/edit#gid=49 About him: https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/why-this-wall-street-banker-uresh-sheth-is-plane-crazy/articleshow/46778927.cms

But I would like to ask something, probably someone heard about something that what happened to the officially communicated order financed by the Avolon leasing company? Sheth knows that only the line number 920 will be financed by the Avolon and the line number 843 (SP-LSE) and 855 (SP-LSF) are financed by the CIT Leasing (but he has data only to the line number 975, he hasn't got information from line number 976). Originally all of these three are communicated as financed by the Avolon, and all of these three will be from Everett. Uresh Sheth stated when I asked him that he is 100% sure that his data is valid and his data came from Boeing directly. So there are two possible cases. LOT modified the contract concluded with Avolon, deducted the amount and they contracted with CIT Leasing instead for the line number 843 and 855 airframes. Or they only postponed their order via Avolon, and they have two more, officially haven't communicated 787s on order. Beacuse I couldn't find any word on the net about the order via CIT Leasing, but Uresh Sheth states that he is correct. Thank you for any information about this!

Sayol82 wrote:

What a detailed and informative first post on this forum, welcome and you should definitely post more often in this thread. Thank you for the contribution.

SRQLOT wrote:

LOT is going to make some room in WAW for the summer. Moving 13 charter destinations for Rainbow Tours for the summer to KTW, with one 737-800 based there.

https://www.pasazer.com/mobi/news/41159 ... tours.html


WAW and PPL want charters out of there by 2021. Enter Air is going to fly one destination from WMI for the summer. Wonder how much more push other charter operators will do this year. I guess the sooner you get out of WAW the better deals you’ll get at other airports. Since Radom is so unpopular of a decision, it will be interesting to see what other regional airports will benefit.

False interpretation.

LOT isn't moving these charter flights to KTW, these are entirely new charter flights being offered from KTW, these flights weren't ever intended for WAW. An airline has yet to move any flights from WAW to another airport. KTW has had a vibrant charter market for a long time, LO is just getting in on it, probably filling in a gap left by the collapse of Small Planet.

SRQLOT wrote:

LOT is going to make some room in WAW for the summer. Moving 13 charter destinations for Rainbow Tours for the summer to KTW, with one 737-800 based there.

https://www.pasazer.com/mobi/news/41159 ... tours.html


WAW and PPL want charters out of there by 2021. Enter Air is going to fly one destination from WMI for the summer. Wonder how much more push other charter operators will do this year. I guess the sooner you get out of WAW the better deals you’ll get at other airports. Since Radom is so unpopular of a decision, it will be interesting to see what other regional airports will benefit.

I've heard a local rumour that LOT wants to move some flights from WAW to LUZ, hence the terminal extension at said airport.

In other news, 11/29 at WAW is closed for resurfacing, so everything uses 15/33. Doesn't seem to be making much difference tbh!

winter wrote:

SRQLOT wrote:

LOT is going to make some room in WAW for the summer. Moving 13 charter destinations for Rainbow Tours for the summer to KTW, with one 737-800 based there.

https://www.pasazer.com/mobi/news/41159 ... tours.html


WAW and PPL want charters out of there by 2021. Enter Air is going to fly one destination from WMI for the summer. Wonder how much more push other charter operators will do this year. I guess the sooner you get out of WAW the better deals you’ll get at other airports. Since Radom is so unpopular of a decision, it will be interesting to see what other regional airports will benefit.

False interpretation.

LOT isn't moving these charter flights to KTW, these are entirely new charter flights being offered from KTW, these flights weren't ever intended for WAW. An airline has yet to move any flights from WAW to another airport. KTW has had a vibrant charter market for a long time, LO is just getting in on it, probably filling in a gap left by the collapse of Small Planet.

Did LOT sign a contract with Rainbow Tours for these flights in the recent weeks or months?

SRQLOT wrote:

Did LOT sign a contract with Rainbow Tours for these flights in the recent weeks or months?

Yes, LOT will operate the following flights on behalf of Rainbow Tours from KTW

Antalya
Bodrum (from 25 May)
Girona (from 24 May)
Catania (from 2 June)
Korfu (from 25 May)
Kos (from 25 May)
Lesbos (from 5 May)
Ohrid (from 25 May)
Rodos (from 25 May)
Podgorica (from 6 May)
Tirana (from 25 May)
Tivat (from 26 May)
Warna (from 11 June)

https://www.pasazer.com/news/41159/lot,wykona,z,katowic,rejsy,czarterowe,dla,rainbow,tours.html

Lot will expand its BUD network with the flights to PRG as of September, according to this website: http://www.planes.cz/en/flightorder

lyngbyvej wrote:

Lot will expand its BUD network with the flights to PRG as of September, according to this website: http://www.planes.cz/en/flightorder

I checked out the website and does it mean it will be a double daily flight?

LO 2531/2 BUD 08:15 - 08:45 E95 01.09.-26.10. dny/days: 1234567
LO 2533/4 BUD 19:25 - 20:05 E95 01.09.-26.10. dny/days: 1234567

Also it would indicate that they are planning on basing E95s in BUD since all WAW-PRG flights seem to be operated by Q400s (as per link above).

Blerg wrote:

Also it would indicate that they are planning on basing E95s in BUD since all WAW-PRG flights seem to be operated by Q400s (as per link above).

Yes they are planning on basing a so far unknown number of E195s at BUD. WAW-PRG flights are operated by a variety of aircraft, including both the E170 and E195.

Milka wrote:

Blerg wrote:

Also it would indicate that they are planning on basing E95s in BUD since all WAW-PRG flights seem to be operated by Q400s (as per link above).

Yes they are planning on basing a so far unknown number of E195s at BUD. WAW-PRG flights are operated by a variety of aircraft, including both the E170 and E195.

Interesting, I wonder what that means for WAW. Are they replacing these E95s with larger aircraft such as the 737 or are they just reducing flights overall so there is room for maneuvering?

Blerg wrote:

Interesting, I wonder what that means for WAW. Are they replacing these E95s with larger aircraft such as the 737 or are they just reducing flights overall so there is room for maneuvering?

There will be more used E195s joining the fleet in the near future, possibly more ex-Azul birds, nothing is confirmed yet.

Milka wrote:

Blerg wrote:

Interesting, I wonder what that means for WAW. Are they replacing these E95s with larger aircraft such as the 737 or are they just reducing flights overall so there is room for maneuvering?

There will be more used E195s joining the fleet in the near future, possibly more ex-Azul birds, nothing is confirmed yet.

Embraer has really served LO well though I miss their B735. Loved flying on those especially since they were so comfortable to sleep in due to those thick old-school seats.

There will be also twice daily flight from Budapest to Sofia. Starting September.

Blerg wrote:

Embraer has really served LO well though I miss their B735. Loved flying on those especially since they were so comfortable to sleep in due to those thick old-school seats.

I don't. LO 735 were on my "to avoid" list (as are all 737). It's the most uncomfortable aircraft one can fly in, full stop. Embraers eat 737s for lunch, comfort-wise.

lyngbyvej wrote:

There will be also twice daily flight from Budapest to Sofia. Starting September.

Is that confirmed? There is nothing on their website. Hopefully they launch BEG as well with the rest of the destinations.

I find it weird that LOT doesn't fly Warsaw to Rome leaving traffic to AZ and the LCCs. Its a major EU city with lots of demand.

@blerg
If you go to the Sofia airport website and search for flight to Budapest as of 1 September, you’ll find two Lot flights per day.

https://www.sofia-airport.bg/en/passeng ... rch-flight

lyngbyvej wrote:

@blerg
If you go to the Sofia airport website and search for flight to Budapest as of 1 September, you’ll find two Lot flights per day.

https://www.sofia-airport.bg/en/passeng ... rch-flight

Thank you. What's interesting is that this route is also operated by Wizz Air, twice a week, on Tuesday and Saturday. This is yet another route where Wizz Air is directly being attacked by LO in Budapest.

SOF-BUD 12.55-13.20
BUD-SOF 13.50-16.10

LO will land in Sofia at 02.00 and 15.50 and depart to Budapest at 05.30 and 16.30.

yesterday I heard from a travel agent that bigger hungarian travel companies not using LOT's US flights for bigger organized travel groups because of the cancellations and unreliable aircraft. hope this year LOT's reputation will emerge in Hungary.

Sort-of news but I was on LO287 (WAW-LCY) earlier on today and it was completely full! For a young route that’s very impressive performance when you consider the amount of capacity between the London and Warsaw metro areas:

5x LHR-WAW daily (2 BA/3 LO)
2x LCY-WAW daily (LO)
3/4x LTN-WAW daily (W6)
3x STN-WMI daily (FR)

Nice flight too, will do a write-up for the Trip Reports forum soon(tm).

pdp wrote:

Sort-of news but I was on LO287 (WAW-LCY) earlier on today and it was completely full! For a young route that’s very impressive performance when you consider the amount of capacity between the London and Warsaw metro areas:

5x LHR-WAW daily (2 BA/3 LO)
2x LCY-WAW daily (LO)
3/4x LTN-WAW daily (W6)
3x STN-WMI daily (FR)

Nice flight too, will do a write-up for the Trip Reports forum soon(tm).

Lots of Polish people living in the UK, so I wouldn't be surprised if at least some of them were heading back after spending Easter in Poland.

tomgle wrote:

pdp wrote:

Sort-of news but I was on LO287 (WAW-LCY) earlier on today and it was completely full! For a young route that’s very impressive performance when you consider the amount of capacity between the London and Warsaw metro areas:

5x LHR-WAW daily (2 BA/3 LO)
2x LCY-WAW daily (LO)
3/4x LTN-WAW daily (W6)
3x STN-WMI daily (FR)

Nice flight too, will do a write-up for the Trip Reports forum soon(tm).

Lots of Polish people living in the UK, so I wouldn't be surprised if at least some of them were heading back after spending Easter in Poland.

why would Polish people living in the UK use LCY which is a business oriented airport? they mainly use STN / LTN on low-cost carriers or at most LHR.

LOT's LCY prices are the same as LHR while being closer to city center.

I imagine Goldman Sachs in particular, along with other investment banks, has a fair few people booked on this route

caranubis wrote:

LOT's LCY prices are the same as LHR while being closer to city center.

i checked and LCY flights are more expensive than LHR, not that much, but still more expensive

emuwarveteran wrote:

caranubis wrote:

LOT's LCY prices are the same as LHR while being closer to city center.

i checked and LCY flights are more expensive than LHR, not that much, but still more expensive

When you factor in travel times to central London (20 mins for LCY, 45 for LHR unless you take the expensive HEX) it's much more convenient.

emuwarveteran wrote:

tomgle wrote:

pdp wrote:

Sort-of news but I was on LO287 (WAW-LCY) earlier on today and it was completely full! For a young route that’s very impressive performance when you consider the amount of capacity between the London and Warsaw metro areas:

5x LHR-WAW daily (2 BA/3 LO)
2x LCY-WAW daily (LO)
3/4x LTN-WAW daily (W6)
3x STN-WMI daily (FR)

Nice flight too, will do a write-up for the Trip Reports forum soon(tm).

Lots of Polish people living in the UK, so I wouldn't be surprised if at least some of them were heading back after spending Easter in Poland.

why would Polish people living in the UK use LCY which is a business oriented airport? they mainly use STN / LTN on low-cost carriers or at most LHR.

That's true, but I think even LCC prices tend to get expensive on routes between the UK and Poland around Easter. Also

emuwarveteran wrote:

caranubis wrote:

LOT's LCY prices are the same as LHR while being closer to city center.

i checked and LCY flights are more expensive than LHR, not that much, but still more expensive

Last year LOT flew 787-8 on WAW-LHR around Easter, so clearly the demand is there (or at least was, but I don't see why much would have changed).

Does anyone know what's up with SP-LRA? On Thursday 26/04 it was diverted to Goose Bay on the way back from Newark, and then stopped in Glasgow before finally getting to Warsaw.

tomgle wrote:

Does anyone know what's up with SP-LRA? On Thursday 26/04 it was diverted to Goose Bay on the way back from Newark, and then stopped in Glasgow before finally getting to Warsaw.

From what I read on another aviation forum it was a medical and then crew timed out. Another crew was flew out of Glasgow. Sucks for the passengers for sure, it was a 14 hour delay.

pdp wrote:

Sort-of news but I was on LO287 (WAW-LCY) earlier on today and it was completely full! For a young route that’s very impressive performance when you consider the amount of capacity between the London and Warsaw metro areas:

5x LHR-WAW daily (2 BA/3 LO)
2x LCY-WAW daily (LO)
3/4x LTN-WAW daily (W6)
3x STN-WMI daily (FR)

Nice flight too, will do a write-up for the Trip Reports forum soon(tm).

The average load factor on the new WAW-LCY is below 50%.

Would love to see LOT on DTW-WAW

klm617 wrote:

Would love to see LOT on DTW-WAW

Nobody here doubts that, rest assured.

winter wrote:

pdp wrote:

Sort-of news but I was on LO287 (WAW-LCY) earlier on today and it was completely full! For a young route that’s very impressive performance when you consider the amount of capacity between the London and Warsaw metro areas:

5x LHR-WAW daily (2 BA/3 LO)
2x LCY-WAW daily (LO)
3/4x LTN-WAW daily (W6)
3x STN-WMI daily (FR)

Nice flight too, will do a write-up for the Trip Reports forum soon(tm).

The average load factor on the new WAW-LCY is below 50%.

When was this route launched? Hopefully loads are picking up.