lhrsfosyd91
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:47 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:29 pm

Blerg wrote:
lhrsfosyd91 wrote:
Blerg wrote:

Google is your friend.


Looks like you're not getting much support on here. Do you want to share with us why the financials have not been published yet?


What support are you talking about? Much of what you write on here makes absolutely no sense at all. First you claim they are frantically copying TK and IST, then you claim they are expanding left and right without any logic, then you come up with some conspiracy theories as to why they didn't publish their 2018 results... seems like you have a thing against the airlines, who knows... maybe they fired you.

As for the 2018 report, I think the 2017 one was published in July last year so we won't have much longer to wait. Airlines publish them when they are ready, no need to get your panties in a twist.


What is your projection for 2018 profit?
 
holczakker
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun May 26, 2019 7:34 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:55 pm

BUD long haul numbers look very weak indeed. It seems that the repeated calamities with the leased aircraft and poor customer relations took its toll in Hungary.

Another reason might be (and I have to go into politics a bit here just to explain it) that most of the hungarians hate their mighty leader (who gets 60% of the parliament seats with getting the votes of only approx 20% of the population due to the rigged election system) and refuse to use anything related to him as a form of silent resistance. Best example is a supermarket chain called Coop which has extremely poor financial performance despite having 3000 units accross the country as most of the people simply don't use them (if they have a choice) for being owned by businessmen linked to the ruling party. Same with Poland/LOT: as much as we are "brothers", the craziness going on at both ends recently (highlighted by right wing people from Poland coming through to Hungary to show their support of Orban at government events) is not something we want to continue/support. Just a thought.
 
winter
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:01 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:07 pm

holczakker wrote:
BUD long haul numbers look very weak indeed. It seems that the repeated calamities with the leased aircraft and poor customer relations took its toll in Hungary.

Another reason might be (and I have to go into politics a bit here just to explain it) that most of the hungarians hate their mighty leader (who gets 60% of the parliament seats with getting the votes of only approx 20% of the population due to the rigged election system) and refuse to use anything related to him as a form of silent resistance. Best example is a supermarket chain called Coop which has extremely poor financial performance despite having 3000 units accross the country as most of the people simply don't use them (if they have a choice) for being owned by businessmen linked to the ruling party. Same with Poland/LOT: as much as we are "brothers", the craziness going on at both ends recently (highlighted by right wing people from Poland coming through to Hungary to show their support of Orban at government events) is not something we want to continue/support. Just a thought.


It’s not just the long-haul flights, the new route to LCY is also underperforming with only 48% average load factor.
 
Blerg
Posts: 2007
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:15 am

lhrsfosyd91 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
lhrsfosyd91 wrote:

Looks like you're not getting much support on here. Do you want to share with us why the financials have not been published yet?


What support are you talking about? Much of what you write on here makes absolutely no sense at all. First you claim they are frantically copying TK and IST, then you claim they are expanding left and right without any logic, then you come up with some conspiracy theories as to why they didn't publish their 2018 results... seems like you have a thing against the airlines, who knows... maybe they fired you.

As for the 2018 report, I think the 2017 one was published in July last year so we won't have much longer to wait. Airlines publish them when they are ready, no need to get your panties in a twist.


What is your projection for 2018 profit?


I don't even know if they had a profit in 2018, we will have to wait for their financial report to come out.
 
Blerg
Posts: 2007
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:20 am

holczakker wrote:
BUD long haul numbers look very weak indeed. It seems that the repeated calamities with the leased aircraft and poor customer relations took its toll in Hungary.

Another reason might be (and I have to go into politics a bit here just to explain it) that most of the hungarians hate their mighty leader (who gets 60% of the parliament seats with getting the votes of only approx 20% of the population due to the rigged election system) and refuse to use anything related to him as a form of silent resistance. Best example is a supermarket chain called Coop which has extremely poor financial performance despite having 3000 units accross the country as most of the people simply don't use them (if they have a choice) for being owned by businessmen linked to the ruling party. Same with Poland/LOT: as much as we are "brothers", the craziness going on at both ends recently (highlighted by right wing people from Poland coming through to Hungary to show their support of Orban at government events) is not something we want to continue/support. Just a thought.


Politics aside, do you really think there is enough demand outside the busy summer months for long-haul flights out of Budapest? After all, Air Canada Rouge and American are both seasonal despite flying out of their main hubs where they have a great deal of connections to offer. At the end of the day I think BUD and LO might have overestimated the Hungarian market's potential here.
 
holczakker
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun May 26, 2019 7:34 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:28 am

Blerg wrote:
Politics aside, do you really think there is enough demand outside the busy summer months for long-haul flights out of Budapest? After all, Air Canada Rouge and American are both seasonal despite flying out of their main hubs where they have a great deal of connections to offer. At the end of the day I think BUD and LO might have overestimated the Hungarian market's potential here.


Malev's longhaul flights (to New York/Toronto/Bangkok/Japan) were usually packed in the back and not a single business passenger (business cabin were in fact filled up with people travelling with MA staff tickets). The product was whole different though (altough nearly identical with the B767/A330 LOT leased for the BUD routes last year). To be honest I was expecting LOT to thrive with a good hard product but they botched the start and it won't be easy to come back. I still think it will happen over time if they can prove that they can provide flights with the promised aircraft type and frequency.
 
MalevTU134
Posts: 2091
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:49 am

Blerg wrote:
holczakker wrote:
BUD long haul numbers look very weak indeed. It seems that the repeated calamities with the leased aircraft and poor customer relations took its toll in Hungary.

Another reason might be (and I have to go into politics a bit here just to explain it) that most of the hungarians hate their mighty leader (who gets 60% of the parliament seats with getting the votes of only approx 20% of the population due to the rigged election system) and refuse to use anything related to him as a form of silent resistance. Best example is a supermarket chain called Coop which has extremely poor financial performance despite having 3000 units accross the country as most of the people simply don't use them (if they have a choice) for being owned by businessmen linked to the ruling party. Same with Poland/LOT: as much as we are "brothers", the craziness going on at both ends recently (highlighted by right wing people from Poland coming through to Hungary to show their support of Orban at government events) is not something we want to continue/support. Just a thought.


Politics aside, do you really think there is enough demand outside the busy summer months for long-haul flights out of Budapest? After all, Air Canada Rouge and American are both seasonal despite flying out of their main hubs where they have a great deal of connections to offer. At the end of the day I think BUD and LO might have overestimated the Hungarian market's potential here.

Exactly. Finally some common sense.
 
MalevTU134
Posts: 2091
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:51 am

holczakker wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Politics aside, do you really think there is enough demand outside the busy summer months for long-haul flights out of Budapest? After all, Air Canada Rouge and American are both seasonal despite flying out of their main hubs where they have a great deal of connections to offer. At the end of the day I think BUD and LO might have overestimated the Hungarian market's potential here.


Malev's longhaul flights (to New York/Toronto/Bangkok/Japan) were usually packed in the back and not a single business passenger (business cabin were in fact filled up with people travelling with MA staff tickets). The product was whole different though (altough nearly identical with the B767/A330 LOT leased for the BUD routes last year). To be honest I was expecting LOT to thrive with a good hard product but they botched the start and it won't be easy to come back. I still think it will happen over time if they can prove that they can provide flights with the promised aircraft type and frequency.

MA flew to Japan?? Wasn't it PEK?
 
holczakker
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun May 26, 2019 7:34 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:10 am

PEK as well, yes. Then ad-hoc lights to Japan, South-Africa and even Los Angeles, I believe.
 
Blerg
Posts: 2007
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:13 am

holczakker wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Politics aside, do you really think there is enough demand outside the busy summer months for long-haul flights out of Budapest? After all, Air Canada Rouge and American are both seasonal despite flying out of their main hubs where they have a great deal of connections to offer. At the end of the day I think BUD and LO might have overestimated the Hungarian market's potential here.


Malev's longhaul flights (to New York/Toronto/Bangkok/Japan) were usually packed in the back and not a single business passenger (business cabin were in fact filled up with people travelling with MA staff tickets). The product was whole different though (altough nearly identical with the B767/A330 LOT leased for the BUD routes last year). To be honest I was expecting LOT to thrive with a good hard product but they botched the start and it won't be easy to come back. I still think it will happen over time if they can prove that they can provide flights with the promised aircraft type and frequency.


But MA, unlike LO, had a decent regional network from which it received many connecting passengers. I remember there were times when in summer they would send two B738 to BEY and fill them with passengers who continued onward via Budapest. Without this feed, how much of MA's network would have been unsustainable simply by relying on local demand.

Long-haul flights are expensive, for example it took JU three years to stabilize JFK's finances with the help of their regional connections. Very few cities in Europe can support long-haul flights without feed. Even EK from ATH to EWR seems to struggle in winter time.
 
holczakker
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun May 26, 2019 7:34 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:46 am

Fair points, Blerg but meanwhile the following flights from BUD are full of transit passengers connecting to long haul: 5x daily LH FRA, 5x daily LH MUC, 3x daily OS VIE, 4x daily BA LHR, 4x daily AF CDG, 2x daily TK IST, 2x daily Qatar, 2x daily Swiss ZRH, 2x daily Finnair HEL + Brussels Airlines, Emirates, Shanghai Airlines, Air China etc.etc. Even Wizz flies BUD-FRA 2x daily, that's not for pax visiting the wonders of Frankfurt city (for those HHN would suffice) but purely for transit. I know people even transiting in Kyiv on board UIA to Bangkok. The demand is definitely there, to where Star Alliance is directing it is another question...
 
Blerg
Posts: 2007
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:30 am

holczakker wrote:
Fair points, Blerg but meanwhile the following flights from BUD are full of transit passengers connecting to long haul: 5x daily LH FRA, 5x daily LH MUC, 3x daily OS VIE, 4x daily BA LHR, 4x daily AF CDG, 2x daily TK IST, 2x daily Qatar, 2x daily Swiss ZRH, 2x daily Finnair HEL + Brussels Airlines, Emirates, Shanghai Airlines, Air China etc.etc. Even Wizz flies BUD-FRA 2x daily, that's not for pax visiting the wonders of Frankfurt city (for those HHN would suffice) but purely for transit. I know people even transiting in Kyiv on board UIA to Bangkok. The demand is definitely there, to where Star Alliance is directing it is another question...


Bu that's the point, a LH A321 from BUD might be filled with 210 transfer passengers but they are not all going to the same place, heck some might be even flying to destinations served with non-stop flights from BUD such as LHR, CDG...

On the other hand LO has to almost exclusively rely on local demand. On top of that, those living in western Hungary can opt to fly from Vienna if the price and schedule is more convenient. Same with those from southern Hungary who might go to BEG to catch a JFK flight on JU. So a relatively small market that's faced with a lot of direct and indirect competition. One way around this is for LO to start building a network in BUD but that would cost a lot of money and would take years to achieve. Does LO have the luxury to do that?
 
holczakker
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun May 26, 2019 7:34 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:50 am

Yes as I said it will take a long(er) time. If they have that, I don't know.

OT: a lot of Hungarians from the western parts are flying short/long haul from VIE indeed and even from BTS with Ryanair but I don't think anyone would wonder to BEG (with the non-schengen border crossing) to fly to New York while they can be in Budapest within 2 hours from Pecs and Szeged by car and even by train.
 
lhrsfosyd91
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:47 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:40 am

Blerg wrote:
holczakker wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Politics aside, do you really think there is enough demand outside the busy summer months for long-haul flights out of Budapest? After all, Air Canada Rouge and American are both seasonal despite flying out of their main hubs where they have a great deal of connections to offer. At the end of the day I think BUD and LO might have overestimated the Hungarian market's potential here.


Malev's longhaul flights (to New York/Toronto/Bangkok/Japan) were usually packed in the back and not a single business passenger (business cabin were in fact filled up with people travelling with MA staff tickets). The product was whole different though (altough nearly identical with the B767/A330 LOT leased for the BUD routes last year). To be honest I was expecting LOT to thrive with a good hard product but they botched the start and it won't be easy to come back. I still think it will happen over time if they can prove that they can provide flights with the promised aircraft type and frequency.


But MA, unlike LO, had a decent regional network from which it received many connecting passengers. I remember there were times when in summer they would send two B738 to BEY and fill them with passengers who continued onward via Budapest. Without this feed, how much of MA's network would have been unsustainable simply by relying on local demand.

Long-haul flights are expensive, for example it took JU three years to stabilize JFK's finances with the help of their regional connections. Very few cities in Europe can support long-haul flights without feed. Even EK from ATH to EWR seems to struggle in winter time.


Keep dreaming. They have 4 weekly flights in the summer and the aircraft sits idle for the remaining 3. Winter is even better. That route is burning cash and exists only because Serbs feel precious.
 
Blerg
Posts: 2007
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:01 am

lhrsfosyd91 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
holczakker wrote:

Malev's longhaul flights (to New York/Toronto/Bangkok/Japan) were usually packed in the back and not a single business passenger (business cabin were in fact filled up with people travelling with MA staff tickets). The product was whole different though (altough nearly identical with the B767/A330 LOT leased for the BUD routes last year). To be honest I was expecting LOT to thrive with a good hard product but they botched the start and it won't be easy to come back. I still think it will happen over time if they can prove that they can provide flights with the promised aircraft type and frequency.


But MA, unlike LO, had a decent regional network from which it received many connecting passengers. I remember there were times when in summer they would send two B738 to BEY and fill them with passengers who continued onward via Budapest. Without this feed, how much of MA's network would have been unsustainable simply by relying on local demand.

Long-haul flights are expensive, for example it took JU three years to stabilize JFK's finances with the help of their regional connections. Very few cities in Europe can support long-haul flights without feed. Even EK from ATH to EWR seems to struggle in winter time.


Keep dreaming. They have 4 weekly flights in the summer and the aircraft sits idle for the remaining 3. Winter is even better. That route is burning cash and exists only because Serbs feel precious.


What are you going on about? How about you do some research before coming on here and insulting others? It's a shame that moderators even allow you to pollute this threat with your nonsensical comments.

And for the record BEG-JFK is served six times per week in summer and the route is constantly recording improved financial results. I know from inside sources that when it was launched JU lost 17 million the first year, losses were brought down to 7 where they are now. The first year the route was profitable in July and August while this year it will be in May, June, July, August and September. So the positive trend is definitely there.

Discussing anything with you is extremely pointless as you do not provide us with any kind of (high) quality comments or facts. You just come here and bark at everyone and anything. From now on I will ignore your comments until you stabilize yourself...and probably grow the hell up.
 
Blerg
Posts: 2007
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:04 am

holczakker wrote:
Yes as I said it will take a long(er) time. If they have that, I don't know.

OT: a lot of Hungarians from the western parts are flying short/long haul from VIE indeed and even from BTS with Ryanair but I don't think anyone would wonder to BEG (with the non-schengen border crossing) to fly to New York while they can be in Budapest within 2 hours from Pecs and Szeged by car and even by train.


Well, Croats and Romanians do cross the border when there is such need. The border is really only a problem in summer, other than that it takes maximum 20 to 30 minutes.

What will be interesting to follow is BUD's financial performance. From what I know they performed quite badly over the past decade.
 
parrotta
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:51 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:32 pm

I highly doubt anyone would travel to BEG from BUD to fly. I m living in BUD, I travel a lot, I flew 1x from BTS and few times from VIE.
VIE is easy on direct highway, no border control, 2-3 hrs, but BEG with the poor highway quality and the insane border control is NONO.

I found statistics for Long Hauls from BUD 2019.

As LOT cancelled many flights between jan and march, due to shortage of 787s the numbers are not really accurate, I was also put on via WAW...

LOT New York
DATE PAX CAPACITY LF Num. of flights
Január 1742 3024 57,6% (12 járat)
Február 1749 4032 43,3% (16 járat)
Március 4196 8820 47,5% (35 járat)

LOT Chicago
Január 878 1260 69,6% (5 járat)
Február 375 1512 24,8% (6 járat)
Március 1735 4536 38,2% (18 járat)

Air China Peking
Január 4758 6218 77,6%
Február 3354 5214 64,3%
Március 4799 6636 72,3%

Emirates Dubaj
Január 16.982 22.604 75,1%
Február 17.734 21.528 82,3%
Március 17.126 22.420 76,3%

Qatar Airways Doha
Január 14.760 26.894 54,8%
Február 16.062 24.616 65,2%
Március 17.389 25.900 67,1%

They should swap LOT ORD to MIA instead.

I remember Malev used to fly 2-3 times to YYZ, 1x to PEK and 2-3 to JFK in winter months and increased BKK and put ac on charters like SDQ, HAV, DUR etc...
 
UkiAir
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:59 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:48 pm

If you only knew how many Serbs use TSR, and how many Serbs and Croats from the Eastern part of the country use BUD.
edit: read the direction wrong. But still, with the new rail connection being built, travel time between Budapest and Belgrade will be significantly shortened.
 
parrotta
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:51 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:51 pm

I know that and agree, I flew yesterday to BUD and in the car park half of the cars are Romanian on Croation or Serbian. It was always like that. The train between BUD and BEG is a batshitcrazy idea and economically horrible, wish they would just open more flights besides Belavia and just fly like to VIE.
I know air serbia tried and failed... As we heard LOT might open BEG, lets hope for the success.
 
UkiAir
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:59 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:01 pm

I'd love for LO to open BUD BEG. It would nicely complement their WAW flights!
 
konkret
Posts: 275
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:26 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:26 pm

UkiAir wrote:
I'd love for LO to open BUD BEG. It would nicely complement their WAW flights!


Is there any particular reason why Air Serbia doesn’t fly to Budapest?
 
UkiAir
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:59 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:41 pm

Poor load factors in each direction, and their ATRs had a better utilization elsewhere unfortunately.
 
konkret
Posts: 275
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:26 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:16 am

UkiAir wrote:
Poor load factors in each direction, and their ATRs had a better utilization elsewhere unfortunately.


So it seems there is little chance LO service on this route could be profitable. JU at least had the connecting traffic through BEG plus ATRs are definitely cheaper to operate than E-jets
 
Blerg
Posts: 2007
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:46 am

parrotta wrote:
I highly doubt anyone would travel to BEG from BUD to fly. I m living in BUD, I travel a lot, I flew 1x from BTS and few times from VIE.
VIE is easy on direct highway, no border control, 2-3 hrs, but BEG with the poor highway quality and the insane border control is NONO.

I found statistics for Long Hauls from BUD 2019.

As LOT cancelled many flights between jan and march, due to shortage of 787s the numbers are not really accurate, I was also put on via WAW...

LOT New York
DATE PAX CAPACITY LF Num. of flights
Január 1742 3024 57,6% (12 járat)
Február 1749 4032 43,3% (16 járat)
Március 4196 8820 47,5% (35 járat)

LOT Chicago
Január 878 1260 69,6% (5 járat)
Február 375 1512 24,8% (6 járat)
Március 1735 4536 38,2% (18 járat)

Air China Peking
Január 4758 6218 77,6%
Február 3354 5214 64,3%
Március 4799 6636 72,3%

Emirates Dubaj
Január 16.982 22.604 75,1%
Február 17.734 21.528 82,3%
Március 17.126 22.420 76,3%

Qatar Airways Doha
Január 14.760 26.894 54,8%
Február 16.062 24.616 65,2%
Március 17.389 25.900 67,1%

They should swap LOT ORD to MIA instead.

I remember Malev used to fly 2-3 times to YYZ, 1x to PEK and 2-3 to JFK in winter months and increased BKK and put ac on charters like SDQ, HAV, DUR etc...


Excuse me but who mentioned people from BUD using BEG? I was referring to southern Hungary and cities such as Szeged. Also the border is only a problem during the three busy summer month.
 
Blerg
Posts: 2007
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:51 am

konkret wrote:
UkiAir wrote:
I'd love for LO to open BUD BEG. It would nicely complement their WAW flights!


Is there any particular reason why Air Serbia doesn’t fly to Budapest?


BUD tried their best to keep JU but in the end they needed their Atrs elsewhere. Flights to Belgrade in the morning as well as those from Belgrade to Budapest in the afternoon had really good loads, it's the other two directions that were miserable. Furthermore, back then JU's pricing was in the hands of Etihad meaning fares were out of this world. I remember at one point they had a promo for €169! In a way the route was doomed from the start.

That said, JU is launching INI-BUD (with subsidies) but unfortunately sales have been rather abysmal so far.
 
guillelds
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 4:20 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:18 pm

Why no LOT to South America ??
 
SRQLOT
Posts: 303
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:05 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:33 pm

guillelds wrote:
Why no LOT to South America ??


Although there is a big polish diaspora in Brazil, they are not connected to Poland like in the US. They don’t travel back to the homeland or keep in touch with distant families. There is a very good video on YouTube. I don’t think there would be enough traffic, and it would be too much of a distance to use the 787 efficiently.
 
konkret
Posts: 275
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:26 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:37 pm

Blerg wrote:
Flights to Belgrade in the morning as well as those from Belgrade to Budapest in the afternoon had really good loads, it's the other two directions that were miserable.


Does it mean that most of the traffic was connecting?
 
MalevTU134
Posts: 2091
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:37 pm

guillelds wrote:
Why no LOT to South America ??

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Because their money printer is broken and they actually need to make money off their flights?

WAW to South America is about the worst idea I have heard. Which isn't to say that some LOT fanboy here will soon come out and defend it. Or even that LOT will try it, in desperation when CMB, HAN and those desperate attempts have failed.

Seriously, where would they get the passengers? Geographically, their situation is lousy for South America. The same reason AY, SK and SU don't fly there (anymore, in the case of SK and SU). And why the attempts at flights to the Far East never have ended well for TP and IB.
 
MalevTU134
Posts: 2091
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:41 pm

konkret wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Flights to Belgrade in the morning as well as those from Belgrade to Budapest in the afternoon had really good loads, it's the other two directions that were miserable.


Does it mean that most of the traffic was connecting?

Yes, of course.
 
konkret
Posts: 275
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:26 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:45 pm

guillelds wrote:
Why no LOT to South America ??


LO did charter flights to Rio (LO6533/LO6534) or even a one-off to ANF in Chile.

Other than charters it’s not gonna happen for the reasons outlined by posters above.
 
lhrsfosyd91
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:47 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:49 pm

CPT in winter would work very well fed by extensive European network and maybe some from North America. Red eye outbound and inbound as a day flight.
 
Blerg
Posts: 2007
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:03 pm

konkret wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Flights to Belgrade in the morning as well as those from Belgrade to Budapest in the afternoon had really good loads, it's the other two directions that were miserable.


Does it mean that most of the traffic was connecting?


Absolutely, tickets were too expensive for local traffic. Passengers were almost completely made of transfers heading mostly to Greece (Thessaloniki, Athens), Montenegro (Tivat and Podgorica), Albania and Bucharest.

The night wave was rather weak back then especially in winter.

If LO is to survive on BEG-BUD they would need to offer much more in Budapest. From what I remember their code-share with JU was suspended so no feed on that end. I think BUD-BEG would be a really bad idea.
 
MalevTU134
Posts: 2091
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:37 pm

lhrsfosyd91 wrote:
CPT in winter would work very well fed by extensive European network and maybe some from North America. Red eye outbound and inbound as a day flight.

I am not so sure. Have you seen
1) the rock bottom fares TK, ET, KQ and even KL and BA are offering from Europe to CPT?
2) The state of the South African economy? And most of the traffic worth going after is in JNB, not CPT.
3) WAW's geographic location in Europe? It's backtracking for all Europeans except Finns, Swedes and Russians to get to CPT.

I honestly think it would be difficult to make that flight work profitably. And, no, not because there is no Polish diaspora in CPT. That is basically irrelevant. But because there is no business traffic that LO could attract, unless they offer lower fares than what could be profitable.
 
SRQLOT
Posts: 303
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:05 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:52 pm

LOT is trying to get more China and South Korea flights and I think that’s pretty much the best course of action. All other destinations are really not in their best interest at this point. On a Polish aviation site i read that their financials for 2018 should be coming out in the next couple of weeks. Until then i think there is not much to talk about. If the claim (+200m zl) from the CEO from around end of last year is true then I think LOT will continue to expand. If it’s really bad like some posters here claim then I think LOT needs to reorganize their network and fleet. As much as I love the 787 and like the 737, the fact that they keep stabbing LOT in the back is getting annoying and might be best to decide what should be done to make a better fleet.
 
MalevTU134
Posts: 2091
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:21 pm

SRQLOT wrote:
LOT is trying to get more China and South Korea flights and I think that’s pretty much the best course of action. All other destinations are really not in their best interest at this point. On a Polish aviation site i read that their financials for 2018 should be coming out in the next couple of weeks. Until then i think there is not much to talk about. If the claim (+200m zl) from the CEO from around end of last year is true then I think LOT will continue to expand. If it’s really bad like some posters here claim then I think LOT needs to reorganize their network and fleet. As much as I love the 787 and like the 737, the fact that they keep stabbing LOT in the back is getting annoying and might be best to decide what should be done to make a better fleet.

I agree. LOT is too small to do everything everywhere at once. Even the likes of CMB is a stretch, unless they have good block arrangements with tour operators. Before going to bed every night, LO managers should be reading about the likes of AY and EI, that have consistently and slowly grown a market (Far East and US, respectively) where they have been able to make a dent, looking for profitability, so they don't go dreaming about being a LH or TK, since they just don't have that critical mass, and probably never will.
 
lhrsfosyd91
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:47 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:34 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
lhrsfosyd91 wrote:
CPT in winter would work very well fed by extensive European network and maybe some from North America. Red eye outbound and inbound as a day flight.

I am not so sure. Have you seen
1) the rock bottom fares TK, ET, KQ and even KL and BA are offering from Europe to CPT?
2) The state of the South African economy? And most of the traffic worth going after is in JNB, not CPT.
3) WAW's geographic location in Europe? It's backtracking for all Europeans except Finns, Swedes and Russians to get to CPT.

I honestly think it would be difficult to make that flight work profitably. And, no, not because there is no Polish diaspora in CPT. That is basically irrelevant. But because there is no business traffic that LO could attract, unless they offer lower fares than what could be profitable.


1) why don't you enlighten us with some data?
2) tourism to CPT is booming and the state of the economy has nothing to do with profitability as long as the currency can be repatriated (look at all the shit holes TK flies to)
3) location is irrelevant for the type of traffic LO carriers, it is never going to be a carrier of choice for high yielding passengers, people do not book LO because they're mesmerised by the Polish culture

Yeah, CMB and DEL have astronomical fares, will be a cash cow for LO.
 
Milka
Posts: 161
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:45 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:11 am

On a separate note SP-LSF the 6th 787-9 and 14th Dreamliner overall has just been delivered to LOT and immediately flew to Toronto on a revenue flight but went tech for some reason. LOT has one more 787-9 left on order that will join the fleet this year, hopefully now with nearly all 787s delivered LOT will cease to have problems with it and stop leasing in planes to fill in for the grounded planes.

Two 787-8s remain in storage awaiting new engines.
- SP-LRD since September 2018
- SP-LRH since April 2019

LOT has been incredibly unlucky the past few years with its Boeing fleet, let's hope that Boeing can get its disgraceful act together in 2020 so that LOT can finally fly its full fleet of new and efficient aircraft. However, I think LOT management should consider Airbus in the future if Boeing continues to be a basket case.
 
cityshuttle
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:56 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:41 am

lhrsfosyd91 wrote:
CPT in winter would work very well fed by extensive European network and maybe some from North America. Red eye outbound and inbound as a day flight.


Also don’t forget that some other carriers have reached their maximum of flights according to bilateral agreements, e.g. LH only has 1/7 left to CPT (which was used by EW from CGN last year) and negotiations between Germany and South Africa in order to increase the weekly flights have not been successful.

So with a decent feeding, flights between WAW and CPT could actually work out. Same applies for JNB. And having SAA as a Star Alliance partner in place to cover a lot of connections from CPT / JNB is also a good argument.

I’m saying this because I often fly from Poland mostly via FRA / MUC / ZRH to JNB and then connect to PLZ (Port Elizabeth) for Volkswagen and other companies in the automobile industry nearby. Flying from Poland via AMS / CDG / LHR is a real backtracking and AZ via FCO is not an option due to missing AZ network to airports in Poland.

And honestly, the options of travelling via DXB / DOH / AUH / IST are also not a convenient option.
 
SRQLOT
Posts: 303
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:05 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:33 pm

Milka wrote:
On a separate note SP-LSF the 6th 787-9 and 14th Dreamliner overall has just been delivered to LOT and immediately flew to Toronto on a revenue flight but went tech for some reason. LOT has one more 787-9 left on order that will join the fleet this year, hopefully now with nearly all 787s delivered LOT will cease to have problems with it and stop leasing in planes to fill in for the grounded planes.

Two 787-8s remain in storage awaiting new engines.
- SP-LRD since September 2018
- SP-LRH since April 2019

LOT has been incredibly unlucky the past few years with its Boeing fleet, let's hope that Boeing can get its disgraceful act together in 2020 so that LOT can finally fly its full fleet of new and efficient aircraft. However, I think LOT management should consider Airbus in the future if Boeing continues to be a basket case.



Also don’t forget SP-LSA is it of service too, 3 weeks now?
 
ek241yyz
Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:28 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:31 pm

Milka wrote:
On a separate note SP-LSF the 6th 787-9 and 14th Dreamliner overall has just been delivered to LOT and immediately flew to Toronto on a revenue flight but went tech for some reason. LOT has one more 787-9 left on order that will join the fleet this year, hopefully now with nearly all 787s delivered LOT will cease to have problems with it and stop leasing in planes to fill in for the grounded planes.

Two 787-8s remain in storage awaiting new engines.
- SP-LRD since September 2018
- SP-LRH since April 2019

LOT has been incredibly unlucky the past few years with its Boeing fleet, let's hope that Boeing can get its disgraceful act together in 2020 so that LOT can finally fly its full fleet of new and efficient aircraft. However, I think LOT management should consider Airbus in the future if Boeing continues to be a basket case.


Also SP-LSA, their first 787-9 awaits new engine(s), stored.

LSF went tech at YYZ due to steering problems of some sort. 787s breaking down, nothing new.

And the funny thing is LOT will order more 787s sometime this year.
Travel often; getting lost will help you find yourself.
 
SRQLOT
Posts: 303
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:05 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:17 pm

I did see load factors for Krakow-Chicago were really good for 2018. Other then April every month was 80% full or higher. During the 4 months with 2 weekly flights the loads were 93% or higher. This is with a very high premium over connecting thru WAW. I read a lot about pushing LOT to fly more USA flights from KRK. I’m looking forward to seeing number for this year with the 3 weekly flights so maybe more flights will be added to ORD and even JFK.
 
Milka
Posts: 161
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:45 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:22 pm

SRQLOT wrote:
Also don’t forget SP-LSA is it of service too, 3 weeks now?


ek241yyz wrote:
Also SP-LSA, their first 787-9 awaits new engine(s), stored.

LSF went tech at YYZ due to steering problems of some sort. 787s breaking down, nothing new.

And the funny thing is LOT will order more 787s sometime this year.


Actually SP-LSA left storage today and is on its way to Toronto as I write this post so currently "only" two 787-8s are grounded apparently and the factory fresh SP-LSF.
 
SRQLOT
Posts: 303
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:05 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:31 pm

Milka wrote:
SRQLOT wrote:
Also don’t forget SP-LSA is it of service too, 3 weeks now?


ek241yyz wrote:
Also SP-LSA, their first 787-9 awaits new engine(s), stored.

LSF went tech at YYZ due to steering problems of some sort. 787s breaking down, nothing new.

And the funny thing is LOT will order more 787s sometime this year.


Actually SP-LSA left storage today and is on its way to Toronto as I write this post so currently "only" two 787-8s are grounded apparently and the factory fresh SP-LSF.


Ah good to hear! The broken propping up the broken LOL
 
Milka
Posts: 161
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:45 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:47 pm

SRQLOT wrote:

Ah good to hear! The broken propping up the broken LOL


Its quite scandalous how a brand new plane, straight out of the factory can go tech after just one single flight, what the hell is wrong with Boeing...
 
ek241yyz
Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:28 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:18 pm

Milka wrote:
SRQLOT wrote:

Ah good to hear! The broken propping up the broken LOL


Its quite scandalous how a brand new plane, straight out of the factory can go tech after just one single flight, what the hell is wrong with Boeing...


Normal actually. I can know 3 787s from LO that went tech enroute on their delivery flights from Seattle.
Travel often; getting lost will help you find yourself.
 
winter
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:01 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:38 pm

Milka wrote:
SRQLOT wrote:

Ah good to hear! The broken propping up the broken LOL


Its quite scandalous how a brand new plane, straight out of the factory can go tech after just one single flight, what the hell is wrong with Boeing...


Not counting the RR engine problems, it seems LOT has an above average number of problem with its 787s. Does anyone know whether other carriers suffer the same amount of tech issues? Or, is this a LOT specific problem.
 
User avatar
mke717spotter
Posts: 2103
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:32 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:50 pm

I'm in Poland now. Any chance they might add WAW-BZG? Pretty sure they have flown that route before.
Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
 
SRQLOT
Posts: 303
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:05 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:20 pm

ek241yyz wrote:
Milka wrote:
SRQLOT wrote:

Ah good to hear! The broken propping up the broken LOL


Its quite scandalous how a brand new plane, straight out of the factory can go tech after just one single flight, what the hell is wrong with Boeing...


Normal actually. I can know 3 787s from LO that went tech enroute on their delivery flights from Seattle.



It seems like it. My uncle was supposed to fly on a one week old with LOT 787 and it was delayed then cancelled as they had to reset it. I know it was around the time when other airlines had issues with the 787 electronics wise. I have not heard of other airlines having issues other then RRs on the 787-8. I don’t hear anything from AA.
 
SRQLOT
Posts: 303
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:05 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:10 pm

So a bit embarrassing for sure as LOT was a victim of a scam. Last November they lost $700,000 US dollars to a fake aircraft leasing bank account. It would have been more but they managed to recover $200,000 US dollars. A Vice President of finance was let go.
https://businessinsider.com.pl/finanse/ ... to/c6yghss

Also another airbus 340 will be flying for LOT in a wet lease from Plus Ultra. Not sure for how long.
https://www.pasazer.com/mobi/news/41602 ... l,lot.html

Also a Boeing 737-700 will fly for LOT from Boeing Capital will be given a polish registration for the Max issues. Anyone know for how long? Also heard that E195 will also happen.

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