Milka
Posts: 161
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:45 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:57 am

lhrsfosyd91 wrote:

Do you mind sharing with us an average fare one way from Europe to Vietnam?

I'll give you a hint, it's not great.


First of all I never said that Vietnam flights are potentially huge money makers or will have high yields. What I said was that last time LOT tried the route it was operated by an old inefficient 767 with a dated product along with a much smaller European network for connecting passengers. Now LOT has a substantial network from which it can feed its flights, provides a decent product on very efficient planes and business ties between Vietnam and Poland have become stronger. Furthermore, LOT often charges more for its flights than competing airlines and still manages to fill its planes out of WAW so who are you to tell us they can't make money on it?
 
LOT767301ER
Posts: 79
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 2:14 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:02 pm

First of all I never said that Vietnam flights are potentially huge money makers or will have high yields. What I said was that last time LOT tried the route it was operated by an old inefficient 767 with a dated product along with a much smaller European network for connecting passengers. Now LOT has a substantial network from which it can feed its flights, provides a decent product on very efficient planes and business ties between Vietnam and Poland have become stronger. Furthermore, LOT often charges more for its flights than competing airlines and still manages to fill its planes out of WAW so who are you to tell us they can't make money on it?


It doesnt take a genius to figure out this is a bad idea. You're talking about feed (read lower yielding traffic vs. O&D) to prop up a market which last time around was probably in the 30-40 PDEW range (on a good day). I didnt know you screen scrapped native and OTA distribution channels to quantify statements like "often charges more" while simultaneously keeping track of LFs, must be tiring :-D
 
Milka
Posts: 161
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:45 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:02 pm

LOT767301ER wrote:
It doesnt take a genius to figure out this is a bad idea. You're talking about feed (read lower yielding traffic vs. O&D) to prop up a market which last time around was probably in the 30-40 PDEW range (on a good day). I didnt know you screen scrapped native and OTA distribution channels to quantify statements like "often charges more" while simultaneously keeping track of LFs, must be tiring :-D


Does anyone on here actually read with understanding? I never said it would be a good idea, they will most likely not launch any Vietnam routes in the foreseeable future as they have other priorities. The only point im trying to make was regarding MalevTU134 ignorant statements that if something didn't work out 7 years ago it won't today. The fact is that LOT today offers a superior product with much more efficient planes and has a significantly larger regional network to feeds its long-haul operations. Anyhow, unless they resume the expansion of WAW or start the construction of the CPK it won't be possible for LOT to grow its long-haul network much more as there aren't simply enough gates available during their departure banks.
 
lhrsfosyd91
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:47 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:02 pm

Milka wrote:
lhrsfosyd91 wrote:

Do you mind sharing with us an average fare one way from Europe to Vietnam?

I'll give you a hint, it's not great.


First of all I never said that Vietnam flights are potentially huge money makers or will have high yields. What I said was that last time LOT tried the route it was operated by an old inefficient 767 with a dated product along with a much smaller European network for connecting passengers. Now LOT has a substantial network from which it can feed its flights, provides a decent product on very efficient planes and business ties between Vietnam and Poland have become stronger. Furthermore, LOT often charges more for its flights than competing airlines and still manages to fill its planes out of WAW so who are you to tell us they can't make money on it?


Connecting traffic is irrelevant if the yields are below profitability. You can fly to a thousand cities in Europe if you like and you're still not going to make money as the feeder flights are sold at rock bottom prices. LOT can charge more than competitors on TATL and only from selected cities but it's certainly not going to be the same case to low yield Vietnam.
 
SRQLOT
Posts: 303
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:05 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:17 pm

Don’t worry Milka, every time it’s the same few so I don’t even try to argue.

On a side note. WAW only increased 2.4% for June Yoy, and with the last few month of slower growth compared to last year it’s possible that the capacity issues at WAW and LOTs fleet problems are having an effect. I wonder if LOT will get anywhere close to 10 million passengers this year.

This should concern the government, because if they want CPK to succeed LOT needs to be bigger stronger. FYI I’m all for WAW expanding and staying open.
 
Blerg
Posts: 2007
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:01 pm

lhrsfosyd91 wrote:
Milka wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
Unless I am mistaken, the last attempt at HAN was, what...3 years ago? 4 maybe? It started in 2010 and went on for a few years with disastrous results, as far as I remember


Yes you are mistaken like with most of the senseless negative posts you make. Hanoi was abandoned in 2012, that is 7 years ago, before the 787 arrived and at a time when LOT was forced to downsize its network and could offer very few connections for passengers wanting to connect in WAW. LOT is in a much stronger position now and can offer connecting passengers a massively increased European network so comparing the situation of today to 2012 makes you just look clueless.


Do you mind sharing with us an average fare one way from Europe to Vietnam?

I'll give you a hint, it's not great.


You should let LO know that, I am sure their management would appreciate your input. I am sure they didn't do their homework.
 
MalevTU134
Posts: 2091
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:27 pm

Blerg wrote:
lhrsfosyd91 wrote:
Milka wrote:

Yes you are mistaken like with most of the senseless negative posts you make. Hanoi was abandoned in 2012, that is 7 years ago, before the 787 arrived and at a time when LOT was forced to downsize its network and could offer very few connections for passengers wanting to connect in WAW. LOT is in a much stronger position now and can offer connecting passengers a massively increased European network so comparing the situation of today to 2012 makes you just look clueless.


Do you mind sharing with us an average fare one way from Europe to Vietnam?

I'll give you a hint, it's not great.


You should let LO know that, I am sure their management would appreciate your input. I am sure they didn't do their homework.

For once, we agree. (I know you were being sarcastic...I am not.) They didn't do their homework - if the rumours on Vietnam are true.
 
MalevTU134
Posts: 2091
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:33 pm

Milka wrote:
lhrsfosyd91 wrote:

Do you mind sharing with us an average fare one way from Europe to Vietnam?

I'll give you a hint, it's not great.


First of all I never said that Vietnam flights are potentially huge money makers or will have high yields. What I said was that last time LOT tried the route it was operated by an old inefficient 767 with a dated product along with a much smaller European network for connecting passengers. Now LOT has a substantial network from which it can feed its flights, provides a decent product on very efficient planes and business ties between Vietnam and Poland have become stronger. Furthermore, LOT often charges more for its flights than competing airlines and still manages to fill its planes out of WAW so who are you to tell us they can't make money on it?

Yes, another way of putting it is that last time it was flown with paid-off (I suppose) equipment, this time around it would be with spanking new and costly aircraft. Same trash yield. Anyhow...don't worry. The EU will replenish what is burnt from the Polish Government's coffers on these flights, as it has for over a decade. Oh, sorry...maybe I should get in line with the Pole dancers here and pay homage to the excellent Polish economy and the infallible decisions of LO management. Mea culpa.
 
Blerg
Posts: 2007
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:54 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
lhrsfosyd91 wrote:

Do you mind sharing with us an average fare one way from Europe to Vietnam?

I'll give you a hint, it's not great.


You should let LO know that, I am sure their management would appreciate your input. I am sure they didn't do their homework.

For once, we agree. (I know you were being sarcastic...I am not.) They didn't do their homework - if the rumours on Vietnam are true.


Well their long-haul flights have so far been successful, no?
 
MalevTU134
Posts: 2091
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:03 pm

Blerg wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
Blerg wrote:

You should let LO know that, I am sure their management would appreciate your input. I am sure they didn't do their homework.

For once, we agree. (I know you were being sarcastic...I am not.) They didn't do their homework - if the rumours on Vietnam are true.


Well their long-haul flights have so far been successful, no?

Some. Maybe even most. But not all. That is why HAN was terminated, wasn't it?
 
terefere
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 1:45 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:46 pm

I think there are actually some arguments for HAN:
- In 2018 there were 52,000 O&D pax between WAW and HAN, making it the second most popular unversed route from WAW
- Potentially a charter destination, so perhaps possible to fill up the planes if there is an agreement with tour operators (LO was already flying charters to Ho Chi Minh, and yes, I know the south of Vietnam is more of a tourist destination than the north)
- The new EU-Vietnam FTA should also help stimulate traffic, and already now some of the trade between the two countries, although not huge in magnitude, is potentially cargo friendly (electronics, pharmaceuticals)

I think there is a reasonable chance that LO could now break-even on HAN even though it didn't 7-8 years ago. But I think the bigger question is, is HAN a better choice than, say, PVG or CAN for a comparable distance... because in the end, flying to HAN means not being to able to use the plane on some other route. And in the end, this may be a good reason not to pick HAN but a more high yield market.
 
caranubis
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2018 2:40 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:23 pm

LOT already flies to SGN. Every 11 days as a winter charter. If they had idle planes in winter, due to lower demand to America, they could try make it a seasonal scheduled flight, just like CMB, but it seems like all planes will be busy doing other things like PKX.
 
Blerg
Posts: 2007
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:29 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
For once, we agree. (I know you were being sarcastic...I am not.) They didn't do their homework - if the rumours on Vietnam are true.


Well their long-haul flights have so far been successful, no?

Some. Maybe even most. But not all. That is why HAN was terminated, wasn't it?


I was mostly referring to long-haul flights operated by LOT 2.0 (after restructuring and after receiving their Dreamliners). They seem to be in a completely different league compared to where they were back then.

Isn't there a large Vietnamese community in The Czech Republic as well? With many daily flights to Prague I am sure they can rely on them as well.
 
IgorD
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:28 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:34 pm

Guys, do you have any data on LOT's load factors, across their overall network and the European one? It seems they don't publish any usefull traffic statistics.
 
Milka
Posts: 161
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:45 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:29 pm

IgorD wrote:
Guys, do you have any data on LOT's load factors, across their overall network and the European one? It seems they don't publish any usefull traffic statistics.


Firstly, welcome to the forum (or rather first post). Unfortunately as a government owned airline LOT picks and chooses what data it publishes so its hard to find a reliable source.

According to one article I found the overall load factor was 78% in 2017 with the most profitable routes being Tokyo 80% and Seoul 85%. Another article mentions that in the summer season of 2017 the LF on their Dreamliner's was 90%. But yeah its hard to find any useful statistics.
 
IgorD
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:28 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:59 pm

Milka wrote:
IgorD wrote:
Guys, do you have any data on LOT's load factors, across their overall network and the European one? It seems they don't publish any usefull traffic statistics.


Firstly, welcome to the forum (or rather first post). Unfortunately as a government owned airline LOT picks and chooses what data it publishes so its hard to find a reliable source.

According to one article I found the overall load factor was 78% in 2017 with the most profitable routes being Tokyo 80% and Seoul 85%. Another article mentions that in the summer season of 2017 the LF on their Dreamliner's was 90%. But yeah its hard to find any useful statistics.

Thank you, Milka, for your welcome and an informative post! I had another account on a.net with a few posts, but messed up registrations, and could only revive this account, which I made some years ago.

Yes, it is a pitty that LOT is not obliged to report statistics. What you say is probably in line with other network carriers, like LH or AF-KL who have short haul LFs of around 80% and long haul LFs of around 90%, as opposed to the LCCs like W6 and FR that have LFs of around 95%.

It sems that LOT are rather weak in revenue management, their prices do not fluctuate as strongly as those of other cartiers, but I might be mistaken on this.
 
ek241yyz
Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:28 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:56 am

Milka wrote:
IgorD wrote:
Guys, do you have any data on LOT's load factors, across their overall network and the European one? It seems they don't publish any usefull traffic statistics.


According to one article I found the overall load factor was 78% in 2017 with the most profitable routes being Tokyo 80% and Seoul 85%. Another article mentions that in the summer season of 2017 the LF on their Dreamliner's was 90%. But yeah its hard to find any useful statistics.


Almost Full planes dont always mean profit.
For example, their LAX route doesnt make money in the passenger cabin (specially during off season), but makes it worth it with the goldmine of cargo they haul in the belly.
I was told, similar case with Seoul.

Speaking of cargo, hope they get those freighters soon.
Travel often; getting lost will help you find yourself.
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
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Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:58 am

Just a reminder to keep your posts on topic and keep personal comments towards other user out of the discussion
Forum Moderator
 
terefere
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 1:45 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:28 pm

IgorD wrote:
Guys, do you have any data on LOT's load factors, across their overall network and the European one? It seems they don't publish any usefull traffic statistics.


According to this article (https://newsroom.aviator.aero/lot-annou ... ng-daxing/), the WAW-PEK 2018 LF was the following: 90% in the summer and 75% in winter
 
terefere
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 1:45 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:45 pm

LO just posted a job ad for CEO.
https://corporate.lot.com/pl/pl/informa ... le=1889308

The term of the current CEO has ended some days ago, he is now interim CEO.
 
IgorD
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:28 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:57 pm

ek241yyz wrote:
Milka wrote:
IgorD wrote:
Guys, do you have any data on LOT's load factors, across their overall network and the European one? It seems they don't publish any usefull traffic statistics.


According to one article I found the overall load factor was 78% in 2017 with the most profitable routes being Tokyo 80% and Seoul 85%. Another article mentions that in the summer season of 2017 the LF on their Dreamliner's was 90%. But yeah its hard to find any useful statistics.


Almost Full planes dont always mean profit.
For example, their LAX route doesnt make money in the passenger cabin (specially during off season), but makes it worth it with the goldmine of cargo they haul in the belly.
I was told, similar case with Seoul.

Speaking of cargo, hope they get those freighters soon.

Sure, LF is not profit, but a proxy to it in a competitive market. I am mostly interested in network properties of LOT as they do not publish any useful statistics on their operations.
I am skeptical about profitability of cargo, some months ago there were a couple of data points about LOT's cargo operations, IIRC the average load was around 4 ton on some N. American routes. As cargo ton-for-ton yields circa factor 5 less then the passengers (again on average), the contribution of freight is probably not very large.

I find LOT to be a very sympathetic airline, especially their Embraers :) and wish them well.
 
terefere
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 1:45 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:39 pm

IgorD wrote:
ek241yyz wrote:
Milka wrote:

According to one article I found the overall load factor was 78% in 2017 with the most profitable routes being Tokyo 80% and Seoul 85%. Another article mentions that in the summer season of 2017 the LF on their Dreamliner's was 90%. But yeah its hard to find any useful statistics.


Almost Full planes dont always mean profit.
For example, their LAX route doesnt make money in the passenger cabin (specially during off season), but makes it worth it with the goldmine of cargo they haul in the belly.
I was told, similar case with Seoul.

Speaking of cargo, hope they get those freighters soon.

Sure, LF is not profit, but a proxy to it in a competitive market. I am mostly interested in network properties of LOT as they do not publish any useful statistics on their operations.
I am skeptical about profitability of cargo, some months ago there were a couple of data points about LOT's cargo operations, IIRC the average load was around 4 ton on some N. American routes. As cargo ton-for-ton yields circa factor 5 less then the passengers (again on average), the contribution of freight is probably not very large.

I find LOT to be a very sympathetic airline, especially their Embraers :) and wish them well.


Cargo probably varies from route to route, there was an article not so long ago which stated that the Seoul route has an average load of over 20 tones of cargo (!) (https://www.cargoforwarder.eu/2019/01/0 ... h-targets/)
LAX was close to 6 tones (https://www.lawa.org/-/media/lawa-web/s ... 972FA0DE11)
 
IgorD
Posts: 5
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Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:51 pm

That's a lot! AF-KL show cargo capacity of their 789 to be 20 ton https://www.afklcargo.com/NL/en/common/ ... /fleet.jsp

Could be that they counted both the bags and freight. But still, if they get 20 ton on average it is a very good load.
 
terefere
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 1:45 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:12 pm

Yes, 20 tons of cargo is a very good sign for the future growth of the ICN route, as soon as they secure the rights to increase frequency. This quote was from the director of LOT Cargo, so I imagine they should only count cargo, but who knows. I figure the 20 ton figure depends on a lot of things, ANA seems to give different figures (https://www.anacargo.jp/en/int/specific ... 787_9.html) and so does IAG (https://www.iagcargo.com/en/page/fleet/boeing-787-9). In the same article, it is stated that LOT Cargo as a division had a 50% profitability last year. Not too attach to much importance to this figure, because it can mean a lot of things, but it does seem like cargo is positively contributing to the balance sheet. I guess this is one of those less visible changes when flying 787 vs. 767, much bigger cargo belly!
By the way, I have just quickly looked at the US Bureau of Transportation Statistics data (https://www.transtats.bts.gov/) and turns out the average cargo load on all LOT routes (that includes those out of BUD, KRK etc.) was close to 7.1 tones. Average passenger LF was 80% (which I imagine is dragged down by BUD flights, even despite the low frequency of those flights).
 
crjflyboy
Posts: 164
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:54 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:14 pm

What did LOT do with all their old Soviet area aircraft when communism collapsed in Eastern Europe ?
 
SRQLOT
Posts: 303
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:05 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:36 pm

Also about 4 months back I posted here that LOT has an Atlas 767 picking up cargo once a month from a regional airport. Cargo for LOT is doing really well, there were couple of articles about that.
 
Milka
Posts: 161
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:45 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:22 pm

Found some data on how LOT was doing in Budapest long-haul wise in 2018. As we can see the high season was quite decent for LOT however there is still a lot of seasonality and the LF drops significantly outside of the Summer. Mind you that last year LOT had major problems with their 787s and the aircraft flying out of BUD where often leased old planes instead of the Dreamliner's giving LOT a bad rep. This year's results should be better as the carrier now only uses 788s at BUD and the leased planes only fly North American routes from WAW. Also the airline plans to hire some Hungarian cabin crew to improve the on board experience from BUD.

Budapest to New York

Image

Budapest to Chicago

Image

Source https://www.fly4free.pl/nowe-dalekie-trasy-lot/
 
terefere
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 1:45 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:51 pm

That actually looks pretty terrible for high season, especially ORD (which by the way had something like a 28% LF in Feb!). My guess is, as soon as they get the permit to fly to ICN from BUD, they will close down the ORD route, but probably keep JFK.
 
Milka
Posts: 161
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:45 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:13 pm

terefere wrote:
That actually looks pretty terrible for high season, especially ORD (which by the way had something like a 28% LF in Feb!). My guess is, as soon as they get the permit to fly to ICN from BUD, they will close down the ORD route, but probably keep JFK.


Yes ORD looks pretty bad I expect them to discontinue it and launch ICN instead. New York should be kept as there is potential.
 
wingtip2000
Posts: 1
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Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:47 am

Any plans for LOT to fly to Hong Kong?
 
terefere
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 1:45 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:10 pm

wingtip2000 wrote:
Any plans for LOT to fly to Hong Kong?


Hong Kong was mentioned a couple of times but the lack of slots is a problem. We may need to wait for the completion of HKG expansion.
 
ME720
Posts: 164
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Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:17 pm

BEY will be served year long, rather than seasonal as originally planned.
 
Blerg
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Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:18 pm

Any other winter changes in LO besides BEY?
 
Milka
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Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:09 pm

LOT has added a fifth 738 to help cover the grounded MAX aircraft. An ex-NewGen Airways, SP-LWE has started operating for the carrier since the 14th of July and is still wearing its previous owners livery.
 
x1234
Posts: 482
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:50 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:26 pm

I'm curious why LOT decided to exit Rome (FCO). I know its a tourist route intra-EU but they could gain competitive connections to both North America & Asia. Alitalia fares are always very high. Anyone know why!? This market is now AZ and the LCC's.
 
terefere
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 1:45 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:14 am

Rome is a tourist route, and a highly seasonal one too. And whatever Alitalia does, I wouldn't necessarily count on that being profitable. But if I was to guess, maybe they get some transfer traffic to South America to make this route viable. I think they still fly to Argentina and Brazil. There is also quite some Italian investment in Poland, so maybe they have some corporate contracts? This was something that sustained the KTW-TRN route by LOT for quite some time (major Fiat factory in Poland)
 
terefere
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 1:45 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:24 pm

Blerg wrote:
Any other winter changes in LO besides BEY?


They are suspending RZE-JFK for the winter season.
 
tomgle
Posts: 72
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:20 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:27 am

I've noticed that since the maxes have been grounded, many of the LHR flights have been operated by E-jets - this seems like a significant capacity decrease compared to the maxes. How is LOT managing this? Were their maxes flying half empty previously? I'm genuinely curious.
 
lhrsfosyd91
Posts: 73
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Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:55 am

tomgle wrote:
I've noticed that since the maxes have been grounded, many of the LHR flights have been operated by E-jets - this seems like a significant capacity decrease compared to the maxes. How is LOT managing this? Were their maxes flying half empty previously? I'm genuinely curious.


They also operate twice daily to LCY so not that much of a drop compared to last year.

BTW, LOT really needs to retime some of the departures to connect Western Europe with the Asian wave. Missing out on a lot of market at the moment.
 
terefere
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 1:45 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:16 pm

lhrsfosyd91 wrote:
BTW, LOT really needs to retime some of the departures to connect Western Europe with the Asian wave. Missing out on a lot of market at the moment.


This may be tricky given the capacity constraints at WAW.

https://www.acl-uk.org/wp-content/uploa ... ON-S19.pdf
 
Blerg
Posts: 2007
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:31 am

Belgrade airport has added to its seasonal timetable daily BUD-BEG flights operated by LO.

Arrival from BUD: 23.35
Departure to BUD: 05.15

Interestingly enough, this winter season Belavia will suspend its BUD stop for flights from Minsk to Belgrade.
 
parrotta
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:51 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:39 pm

I heard a rumor that the BUD-ICN flight will be together with an unspecified Chinese city.
 
terefere
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 1:45 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:15 pm

parrotta wrote:
I heard a rumor that the BUD-ICN flight will be together with an unspecified Chinese city.


How credible is this rumor? BUD already has flights to PEK and PVG, I can't see any other place in China worth flying to from BUD without a feed network. Unless of course LOT adds some frequency to Daxing, complementing the 4x weekly to PEK by Air China.
 
terefere
Posts: 58
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Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:42 pm

So, it seems official now: LOT had 209 M PLN (55 M USD) profit in 2018 (vs 273 M PLN in 2017). We don't know other details yet, but seems like fleet issues are hitting LOT hard. Profit margin likely below 5%, although LOT did open many new flights lately, so that probably resulted in lower profits as well.

(in Polish: https://www.rynek-lotniczy.pl/wiadomosc ... -6441.html)
 
yulexpansion
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:08 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:00 pm

Milka wrote:
Found some data on how LOT was doing in Budapest long-haul wise in 2018. As we can see the high season was quite decent for LOT however there is still a lot of seasonality and the LF drops significantly outside of the Summer. Mind you that last year LOT had major problems with their 787s and the aircraft flying out of BUD where often leased old planes instead of the Dreamliner's giving LOT a bad rep. This year's results should be better as the carrier now only uses 788s at BUD and the leased planes only fly North American routes from WAW. Also the airline plans to hire some Hungarian cabin crew to improve the on board experience from BUD.

Budapest to New York

Image

Budapest to Chicago

Image

Source https://www.fly4free.pl/nowe-dalekie-trasy-lot/


How does flying with "bad planes" impact PLF to that extent... Most likely passengers were not even aware of the aircraft change until close-in. This just proves that the market is not necessarily there. UX & YU operated for LO during the second half of the summer season, not during the peak.
 
SRQLOT
Posts: 303
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:05 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:06 pm

terefere wrote:
So, it seems official now: LOT had 209 M PLN (55 M USD) profit in 2018 (vs 273 M PLN in 2017). We don't know other details yet, but seems like fleet issues are hitting LOT hard. Profit margin likely below 5%, although LOT did open many new flights lately, so that probably resulted in lower profits as well.

(in Polish: https://www.rynek-lotniczy.pl/wiadomosc ... -6441.html)



Overall it’s good to see that what the CEO stated last year around August came on the dot. He said he expected a 200m zloty profit, but that it was going to be a tough road ahead with all the leases to cover for 787 engine issues.
Last edited by SRQLOT on Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
SRQLOT
Posts: 303
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:05 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:07 pm

Some on here will be upset that LOT even made a profit.

Of course it is disappointing that this year LOT expects similar results even though expecting to carry over 10 million passengers compared to 8.8 last year. But 787-8 and 737-8Max are a kick in the butt.
 
Blerg
Posts: 2007
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:30 am

Great to see LO posting a profit on here, some will be upset though.

Is LO receiving compensation for the MAX landings? If yes do we know what sum?
 
smbukas
Posts: 323
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:17 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:39 am

terefere wrote:
So, it seems official now: LOT had 209 M PLN (55 M USD) profit in 2018 (vs 273 M PLN in 2017). We don't know other details yet, but seems like fleet issues are hitting LOT hard. Profit margin likely below 5%, although LOT did open many new flights lately, so that probably resulted in lower profits as well.

(in Polish: https://www.rynek-lotniczy.pl/wiadomosc ... -6441.html)


I am really surprised and I'm really happy to hear these numbers. Having in mind crazy growth rates and so many operational challenges this is an excellent performance to stay in black.
 
artflyer
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:08 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:59 am

terefere wrote:
So, it seems official now: LOT had 209 M PLN (55 M USD) profit in 2018 (vs 273 M PLN in 2017). We don't know other details yet, but seems like fleet issues are hitting LOT hard. Profit margin likely below 5%, although LOT did open many new flights lately, so that probably resulted in lower profits as well.

(in Polish: https://www.rynek-lotniczy.pl/wiadomosc ... -6441.html)


The 209 M PLN is operating profit (vs 274 M PLN operating profit in 2017). It has been known for more than one month now as the CEO disclosed it following end of an auditor's work on the financial statements. EBITDA (369 MLN PLN in 2017) and EBITDAR (647 MLN PLN in 2017) will be of course different. I would compare efficiency only based on EBITDAR/income. We will see when the financial statements are finally published, but because LOT is not a listed company they typically do it end of July/start of August.

The operating profit for 2018 was 16 M PLN below their budget, which CEO said was due to employee strike actions in 2018 and issues with RR engines.

The budgeted operating profit for 2019 is 250 M PLN, but CEO said now they will have less than that and closer to 2018 operating profit because of MAX grounding.

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