NateGreat
Posts: 410
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:02 pm

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:39 pm

hkcanadaexpat wrote:
09/16-09/22 Period
Total Fleet: 153
Scheduled Service: 138/153
Spares: 10/153 (4x76T; 1x76L; 1x76Z; 1x764(DS); 1x772; 2x333)
Conversion: 4/153 (3x [email protected]; 1x [email protected])
Maintenance: 1/153 ([email protected])
Induction/Storage: 0/153

Highlights
> unconfirmed but the first 764 with DSuites (N828MH) may have began FAA approval for the IFE system at ATL prior to formal launch
> The next 339 (N404DX) performed a second test flight in TLS on 9/20

Flight/Route Changes
> DTW-NGO (95/94) from Daily to x2 effective 9/17
> SEA-ICN (199/198) from 76T to 339 effective 9/16

Upgrades from narrowbody fleet
9/16: ATL-FLL-ATL-MCO; ATL-JFK
9/17: SEA-LAX-SEA-SLC; MCO-ATL-SLC; DEN-LAX-MSP
9/18: ATL-DTW; SLC-ATL-FLL-ATL; MSP-LAX-MSP
9/19: DTW-ATL; ATL-SLC-HNL; MSP-LAX
9/20: BOS-ATL; ATL-BOS; SLC-HNL-ATL-SEA
9/21: JFK-ATL; ATL-SLC-HNL
9/22: HNL-SLC-ATL-FLL-ATL-MCO

Charters
9/19: JFK-BOS-PIE-JFK (Boston Red Sox)
9/20-23: LAX-NKT-RIV-NKT-RIV-NKT-RIV-ANC-GPT-ATL

Noteworthy Diversions
9/19: JFK-LAX -> DEN (medical)

Flight Cancellations
9/18 BCN-ATL
9/19: RDU-CDG
9/22: NRT-MNL

N828MH is about to ferry from JFK to ATL.
 
blacksoviet
Posts: 1269
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:50 am

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:59 pm

NateGreat wrote:
hkcanadaexpat wrote:
09/16-09/22 Period
Total Fleet: 153
Scheduled Service: 138/153
Spares: 10/153 (4x76T; 1x76L; 1x76Z; 1x764(DS); 1x772; 2x333)
Conversion: 4/153 (3x [email protected]; 1x [email protected])
Maintenance: 1/153 ([email protected])
Induction/Storage: 0/153

Highlights
> unconfirmed but the first 764 with DSuites (N828MH) may have began FAA approval for the IFE system at ATL prior to formal launch
> The next 339 (N404DX) performed a second test flight in TLS on 9/20

Flight/Route Changes
> DTW-NGO (95/94) from Daily to x2 effective 9/17
> SEA-ICN (199/198) from 76T to 339 effective 9/16

Upgrades from narrowbody fleet
9/16: ATL-FLL-ATL-MCO; ATL-JFK
9/17: SEA-LAX-SEA-SLC; MCO-ATL-SLC; DEN-LAX-MSP
9/18: ATL-DTW; SLC-ATL-FLL-ATL; MSP-LAX-MSP
9/19: DTW-ATL; ATL-SLC-HNL; MSP-LAX
9/20: BOS-ATL; ATL-BOS; SLC-HNL-ATL-SEA
9/21: JFK-ATL; ATL-SLC-HNL
9/22: HNL-SLC-ATL-FLL-ATL-MCO

Charters
9/19: JFK-BOS-PIE-JFK (Boston Red Sox)
9/20-23: LAX-NKT-RIV-NKT-RIV-NKT-RIV-ANC-GPT-ATL

Noteworthy Diversions
9/19: JFK-LAX -> DEN (medical)

Flight Cancellations
9/18 BCN-ATL
9/19: RDU-CDG
9/22: NRT-MNL

N828MH is about to ferry from JFK to ATL.

How many widebody hangars does Delta have at JFK?
 
FlyHPN
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:15 pm

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:33 pm

Delta picking up an additional 14 A350s between 2020 and 2025 via stake in LATAM: https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1WB2UZ
 
NateGreat
Posts: 410
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:02 pm

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:34 pm

FlyHPN wrote:
Delta picking up an additional 14 A350s between 2020 and 2025 via stake in LATAM: https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1WB2UZ

Damn! Maybe we’ll start seeing more TATL A350 ops then?
 
Dalmd88
Posts: 2950
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 3:19 am

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:38 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
NateGreat wrote:
hkcanadaexpat wrote:
09/16-09/22 Period
Total Fleet: 153
Scheduled Service: 138/153
Spares: 10/153 (4x76T; 1x76L; 1x76Z; 1x764(DS); 1x772; 2x333)
Conversion: 4/153 (3x [email protected]; 1x [email protected])
Maintenance: 1/153 ([email protected])
Induction/Storage: 0/153

Highlights
> unconfirmed but the first 764 with DSuites (N828MH) may have began FAA approval for the IFE system at ATL prior to formal launch
> The next 339 (N404DX) performed a second test flight in TLS on 9/20

Flight/Route Changes
> DTW-NGO (95/94) from Daily to x2 effective 9/17
> SEA-ICN (199/198) from 76T to 339 effective 9/16

Upgrades from narrowbody fleet
9/16: ATL-FLL-ATL-MCO; ATL-JFK
9/17: SEA-LAX-SEA-SLC; MCO-ATL-SLC; DEN-LAX-MSP
9/18: ATL-DTW; SLC-ATL-FLL-ATL; MSP-LAX-MSP
9/19: DTW-ATL; ATL-SLC-HNL; MSP-LAX
9/20: BOS-ATL; ATL-BOS; SLC-HNL-ATL-SEA
9/21: JFK-ATL; ATL-SLC-HNL
9/22: HNL-SLC-ATL-FLL-ATL-MCO

Charters
9/19: JFK-BOS-PIE-JFK (Boston Red Sox)
9/20-23: LAX-NKT-RIV-NKT-RIV-NKT-RIV-ANC-GPT-ATL

Noteworthy Diversions
9/19: JFK-LAX -> DEN (medical)

Flight Cancellations
9/18 BCN-ATL
9/19: RDU-CDG
9/22: NRT-MNL

N828MH is about to ferry from JFK to ATL.

How many widebody hangars does Delta have at JFK?

DL has Zero hangars in JFK. If we need temp space we rent from AA. I know it sounds crazy with an operation as large as JFK there is not a Line Mtc hangar, but that is the case.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 6044
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 27, 2019 1:22 am

NateGreat wrote:
FlyHPN wrote:
Delta picking up an additional 14 A350s between 2020 and 2025 via stake in LATAM: https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1WB2UZ

Damn! Maybe we’ll start seeing more TATL A350 ops then?


Why wouldn't you use 350s on the longest routes, where the fuel efficiency advantage is greatest? To me, that means subbing A350s for 777ERs.
 
777Mech
Posts: 801
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:54 pm

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 27, 2019 1:24 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
NateGreat wrote:
FlyHPN wrote:
Delta picking up an additional 14 A350s between 2020 and 2025 via stake in LATAM: https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1WB2UZ

Damn! Maybe we’ll start seeing more TATL A350 ops then?


Why wouldn't you use 350s on the longest routes, where the fuel efficiency advantage is greatest? To me, that means subbing A350s for 777ERs.


777ERs flying trunk routes TATL and the A350 flying TPAC. Moves some 764s to 763 routes and help retire the 763.
 
TropicalSky
Posts: 298
Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 1:37 pm

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 27, 2019 1:31 am

This was a major move by Delta.....I'm sure a lot of airlines board rooms just sat up straight
 
hkcanadaexpat
Posts: 3917
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:33 am

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:05 am

777Mech wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
NateGreat wrote:
Damn! Maybe we’ll start seeing more TATL A350 ops then?

Why wouldn't you use 350s on the longest routes, where the fuel efficiency advantage is greatest? To me, that means subbing A350s for 777ERs.

777ERs flying trunk routes TATL and the A350 flying TPAC. Moves some 764s to 763 routes and help retire the 763.

Following this train of thought, one could then assume that the 4x A359s purchased from JJ are used for growth (either directly as a result of the KE/MU relationships or indirectly as a result of the LA/JJ relationship) and the 10x A350s to replace the remaining 10x 76Zs not covered by the current 339 order. That would then leave the 7x 76Ts and 21x 764s as the next oldest fleets scheduled for replacement.
 
tvh
Posts: 160
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:41 am

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:29 am

NateGreat wrote:
FlyHPN wrote:
Delta picking up an additional 14 A350s between 2020 and 2025 via stake in LATAM: https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1WB2UZ

Damn! Maybe we’ll start seeing more TATL A350 ops then?


Will some be the 1000 as Latam has (had) the 1000 on order ?
 
777Mech
Posts: 801
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:54 pm

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:34 pm

hkcanadaexpat wrote:
777Mech wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Why wouldn't you use 350s on the longest routes, where the fuel efficiency advantage is greatest? To me, that means subbing A350s for 777ERs.

777ERs flying trunk routes TATL and the A350 flying TPAC. Moves some 764s to 763 routes and help retire the 763.

Following this train of thought, one could then assume that the 4x A359s purchased from JJ are used for growth (either directly as a result of the KE/MU relationships or indirectly as a result of the LA/JJ relationship) and the 10x A350s to replace the remaining 10x 76Zs not covered by the current 339 order. That would then leave the 7x 76Ts and 21x 764s as the next oldest fleets scheduled for replacement.


That looks good, the 76Ts are getting the Suites, so they'll stick around for a little while longer. The deal theoretically covered their widebody needs overnight.

I'd assume those 4 extra frames will be used to South America, from MIA and DTW. The only downside is most SA flights require 2 frames due to the ground time scheduled, unless they run daytime flights.
 
NateGreat
Posts: 410
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:02 pm

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:56 pm

777Mech wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
NateGreat wrote:
Damn! Maybe we’ll start seeing more TATL A350 ops then?


Why wouldn't you use 350s on the longest routes, where the fuel efficiency advantage is greatest? To me, that means subbing A350s for 777ERs.


777ERs flying trunk routes TATL and the A350 flying TPAC. Moves some 764s to 763 routes and help retire the 763.

So, you’re saying routes like LAX-SYD and ATL-HND would become A350 routes?
 
NateGreat
Posts: 410
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:02 pm

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:59 pm

777Mech wrote:
hkcanadaexpat wrote:
777Mech wrote:
777ERs flying trunk routes TATL and the A350 flying TPAC. Moves some 764s to 763 routes and help retire the 763.

Following this train of thought, one could then assume that the 4x A359s purchased from JJ are used for growth (either directly as a result of the KE/MU relationships or indirectly as a result of the LA/JJ relationship) and the 10x A350s to replace the remaining 10x 76Zs not covered by the current 339 order. That would then leave the 7x 76Ts and 21x 764s as the next oldest fleets scheduled for replacement.


That looks good, the 76Ts are getting the Suites, so they'll stick around for a little while longer. The deal theoretically covered their widebody needs overnight.

I'd assume those 4 extra frames will be used to South America, from MIA and DTW. The only downside is most SA flights require 2 frames due to the ground time scheduled, unless they run daytime flights.

The 763s would not get the actual Delta One Suites, unless they go for a very small 1-1-1 D1 cabin or a UA High J-style 763 D1 cabin where like the entire front half of the plane is in a 1-1-1 D1 configuration. If anything, they’ll get the same modified D1 seat as the 767-400s.
 
NateGreat
Posts: 410
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:02 pm

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:19 pm

Clearly the B763s will begin retirement soon. But, with these additional A350s coming soon, how will the A359/A339/B777 flying be divided up, among the international regions and the bigger international markets?
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 6044
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:44 pm

Only two A350s appear to be coming soon - if you think of end 2020 as soon. Further, DL has decided that LAX-SYD isn't going to be an A350 route; something about diversion points and not absolute range.

Two more aircraft in a widebody fleet of ~150 changes nothing in a predictable way. A push for better utilization -- something like LAX-HND-DTW-AMS-LAX instead of straight out-and-back trips -- could overcome preferences based on relative fuel efficiency. That's not the only example of a factor that could overcome otherwise sound logic. Don't perseverate on this.
 
hkcanadaexpat
Posts: 3917
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:33 am

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:56 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Only two A350s appear to be coming soon - if you think of end 2020 as soon.

I believe the new delivery schedule is something like this:
> (4) in 2020 (2 new from DL order book + 2 already delivered to LA)
> (4) in 2021 (2 new from LA order book + 2 already delivered to LA)
> From 2022-25, 8 from LA order book (these are A35Js but doesn't DL won't switch those orders to A359s)
> From 2025-26, 10 from DL order book

I've speculated (rightfully or wrongfully) that the 2025-26 frames will replace the 772 fleet. The other frames will conceptually allow for a quicker drawdown of the entire 76Z fleet through incremental upgrades in the fleet.
 
DeltaConnection
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:16 pm

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:58 pm

Is it just me or does it seem DL doesn't use widebody's much in the 48 states apart from NYC to LAX and some ATL to LAX/SEA flying?
 
NateGreat
Posts: 410
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:02 pm

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:37 pm

hkcanadaexpat wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Only two A350s appear to be coming soon - if you think of end 2020 as soon.

I believe the new delivery schedule is something like this:
> (4) in 2020 (2 new from DL order book + 2 already delivered to LA)
> (4) in 2021 (2 new from LA order book + 2 already delivered to LA)
> From 2022-25, 8 from LA order book (these are A35Js but doesn't DL won't switch those orders to A359s)
> From 2025-26, 10 from DL order book

I've speculated (rightfully or wrongfully) that the 2025-26 frames will replace the 772 fleet. The other frames will conceptually allow for a quicker drawdown of the entire 76Z fleet through incremental upgrades in the fleet.

If the 10 2025-2026 frames are for 772 replacement, it will be for the 777-200ERs, all of which were delivered from 1999 through 2002. The 777-200LRs were delivered from 2008 through 2010, so those can stay for a while longer. They also do the longest missions, like ATL-JNB, ATL-PVG, and LAX-SYD.
 
777Mech
Posts: 801
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:54 pm

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Sat Sep 28, 2019 5:44 am

hkcanadaexpat wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Only two A350s appear to be coming soon - if you think of end 2020 as soon.

I believe the new delivery schedule is something like this:
> (4) in 2020 (2 new from DL order book + 2 already delivered to LA)
> (4) in 2021 (2 new from LA order book + 2 already delivered to LA)
> From 2022-25, 8 from LA order book (these are A35Js but doesn't DL won't switch those orders to A359s)
> From 2025-26, 10 from DL order book

I've speculated (rightfully or wrongfully) that the 2025-26 frames will replace the 772 fleet. The other frames will conceptually allow for a quicker drawdown of the entire 76Z fleet through incremental upgrades in the fleet.


I am concerned about seat availability though, with the relatively close in acquisition of these frames. The seat supplier can't even keep up with production as it is.
 
WidebodyPTV
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:06 pm

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:34 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
Further, DL has decided that LAX-SYD isn't going to be an A350 route; something about diversion points and not absolute range.


DL has decided... or a.net has decided for DL? The same people promoting such, BTW, are the same ones who claimed “credible sources” also told them DL was unhappy with the 350, and a 787 order was “imminent.” And now DL commits to 14 more 350...

Wishful thinking and facts are generally two very distinct ideas. When I was 12, I told everybody I wanted my first car to be a Lamborghini. When I turned 15, I was happy to get a Pontiac...
 
gloom
Posts: 326
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2016 4:24 pm

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:18 am

NateGreat wrote:
If the 10 2025-2026 frames are for 772 replacement, it will be for the 777-200ERs, all of which were delivered from 1999 through 2002. The 777-200LRs were delivered from 2008 through 2010, so those can stay for a while longer. They also do the longest missions, like ATL-JNB, ATL-PVG, and LAX-SYD.


Just a speculation, but by this time 350-1000ULR will be available, right? And continuing with speculation, it should be able to replace any 200LR route, while being far more economical, right?

Cheers,
Adam
 
TW870
Posts: 1032
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:01 am

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 29, 2019 2:24 pm

NateGreat wrote:
Clearly the B763s will begin retirement soon. But, with these additional A350s coming soon, how will the A359/A339/B777 flying be divided up, among the international regions and the bigger international markets?


My guess is that over the nearer (2-3 years) term, little changes. The 777LR's excellent payload performance will keep it on the longest routes (SYD, BOM, JNB, etc.), and the added 359s will fill in on other long routes as needed. The A359 and the Trent XWB will continue to get PIPs from the manufacturer, and my guess is that eventually, the fuel burn reductions on that airplane will make it preferable to the 777 fleet on all markets, including the longest routes. At that point, DL will consolidate the 777 into existing hubs such as ATL and DTW and make it a mostly 8-hour/Europe bird. That way, they can improve pilot reserve coverage and trip efficiency by flying the 777 out of fewer stations. The larger 339 and 359 fleets will eventually cover all of the Asia/Pacific flying. By 2025, Latin America and Europe will be mostly 777/333/764 flying, and Asia/Pacific will be 339/359.
 
NateGreat
Posts: 410
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:02 pm

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 29, 2019 5:34 pm

TW870 wrote:
NateGreat wrote:
Clearly the B763s will begin retirement soon. But, with these additional A350s coming soon, how will the A359/A339/B777 flying be divided up, among the international regions and the bigger international markets?


My guess is that over the nearer (2-3 years) term, little changes. The 777LR's excellent payload performance will keep it on the longest routes (SYD, BOM, JNB, etc.), and the added 359s will fill in on other long routes as needed. The A359 and the Trent XWB will continue to get PIPs from the manufacturer, and my guess is that eventually, the fuel burn reductions on that airplane will make it preferable to the 777 fleet on all markets, including the longest routes. At that point, DL will consolidate the 777 into existing hubs such as ATL and DTW and make it a mostly 8-hour/Europe bird. That way, they can improve pilot reserve coverage and trip efficiency by flying the 777 out of fewer stations. The larger 339 and 359 fleets will eventually cover all of the Asia/Pacific flying. By 2025, Latin America and Europe will be mostly 777/333/764 flying, and Asia/Pacific will be 339/359.

Any chance of the A339 doing longer/higher-density TATL missions that the A333 has been doing, such as JFK-TLV or some of the AMS/CDG routes? I mean, they only truly need the A339 on West Coast TPAC routes. Other than that, the A359s and 777s will handle the rest.
 
FSDan
Posts: 2658
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:10 am

NateGreat wrote:
Any chance of the A339 doing longer/higher-density TATL missions that the A333 has been doing, such as JFK-TLV or some of the AMS/CDG routes? I mean, they only truly need the A339 on West Coast TPAC routes. Other than that, the A359s and 777s will handle the rest.


With 35 (37?) in the long term plans, they'll definitely be doing more than just TPAC...
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
NateGreat
Posts: 410
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:02 pm

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:14 am

FSDan wrote:
NateGreat wrote:
Any chance of the A339 doing longer/higher-density TATL missions that the A333 has been doing, such as JFK-TLV or some of the AMS/CDG routes? I mean, they only truly need the A339 on West Coast TPAC routes. Other than that, the A359s and 777s will handle the rest.


With 35 (37?) in the long term plans, they'll definitely be doing more than just TPAC...

That’s what I’ve been saying!
 
FSDan
Posts: 2658
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:27 am

777Mech wrote:
the 76Ts are getting the Suites, so they'll stick around for a little while longer.


Is that official?

777Mech wrote:
I'd assume those 4 extra frames will be used to South America, from MIA and DTW. The only downside is most SA flights require 2 frames due to the ground time scheduled, unless they run daytime flights.


I think the 359 in DL's configuration is much more capacity than what's needed on any DTW-South America route...

And I wouldn't expect DL to start many (if any) flights on their own metal from MIA to South America. IMO, a JV with LATAM is more likely to lead them to upgauge a few of their ATL-South America flights (e.g. ATL-LIM to A330) and fill in a few gaps like JFK-EZE or LAX/BOS-BOG.

As others have mentioned, it seems possible that DL will use the additional 350s to displace 772s from routes like LAX-HND and ATL-HND and reallocate them to shorter TATL/South America routes.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
NateGreat
Posts: 410
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:02 pm

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:07 am

FSDan wrote:
NateGreat wrote:
Any chance of the A339 doing longer/higher-density TATL missions that the A333 has been doing, such as JFK-TLV or some of the AMS/CDG routes? I mean, they only truly need the A339 on West Coast TPAC routes. Other than that, the A359s and 777s will handle the rest.


With 35 (37?) in the long term plans, they'll definitely be doing more than just TPAC...

What I see likely happening is this. Once TPAC missions out of SEA have all received A339s, they would either begin TPAC missions out of LAX or they would begin TATL missions (AMS/CDG) out of SEA. If SEA is (for now) to the A339s what DTW is to the A359s, I see the next batch of A339 routes either going SEA-AMS/CDG or continue the TPAC expansion with some LAX flights. This would likely be executed the same way most non-DTW A359 flights are executed. For example, an A359 will go DTW-ICN-ATL-ICN-DTW, so an A339 could go SEA-PVG-LAX-PVG-SEA. There was talk of either PEK or KIX from SEA, or MSP-ICN. Granted, I though MSP-ICN was supposed to be an A359 route. It would have to go SEA-ICN-MSP-ICN-SEA, so it’s not impossible.
 
Scotron12
Posts: 176
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:13 pm

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:27 am

We do not know the composition of the A350s DL will be getting as part of the LATAM deal. Is there routes on DLs network that would support an A350-1000??

Currently their A359s have a total configuration of 306. CX have a total of 292 on their A359s and a total of 334 on their A350-1000s...would that be too big for DL??
 
FSDan
Posts: 2658
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:14 pm

NateGreat wrote:
FSDan wrote:
NateGreat wrote:
Any chance of the A339 doing longer/higher-density TATL missions that the A333 has been doing, such as JFK-TLV or some of the AMS/CDG routes? I mean, they only truly need the A339 on West Coast TPAC routes. Other than that, the A359s and 777s will handle the rest.


With 35 (37?) in the long term plans, they'll definitely be doing more than just TPAC...

What I see likely happening is this. Once TPAC missions out of SEA have all received A339s, they would either begin TPAC missions out of LAX or they would begin TATL missions (AMS/CDG) out of SEA. If SEA is (for now) to the A339s what DTW is to the A359s, I see the next batch of A339 routes either going SEA-AMS/CDG or continue the TPAC expansion with some LAX flights. This would likely be executed the same way most non-DTW A359 flights are executed. For example, an A359 will go DTW-ICN-ATL-ICN-DTW, so an A339 could go SEA-PVG-LAX-PVG-SEA. There was talk of either PEK or KIX from SEA, or MSP-ICN. Granted, I though MSP-ICN was supposed to be an A359 route. It would have to go SEA-ICN-MSP-ICN-SEA, so it’s not impossible.


Yep, that seems likely. I think SEA-CDG/AMS, SEA-PEK, PDX-AMS, LAX-CDG, and LAX-HND/PVG are definitely all candidates for the 339. If DL starts sending them on West Coast-CDG/AMS, we might well see a few East Coast-CDG/AMS flights mixed in for utilization purposes. Probably one or two expansion routes as well, such as SEA-TPE (when the new international arrivals facility at SEA opens up), or even something like LAX-GRU in cooperation with LA or LAX-AKL in cooperation with VA.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
User avatar
AECM
Posts: 234
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:52 am

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:18 pm

N404DX, DL 4# A339 is flying to ATL
 
FSDan
Posts: 2658
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:19 pm

Scotron12 wrote:
Is there routes on DLs network that would support an A350-1000??


Trunk hub-to-hub transatlantic routes would be the most likely to see that type, I'd think. MSP/DTW-AMS, ATL-CDG/AMS, JFK-CDG/AMS, etc. Also, look at the non-NRT routes DL used the 744s on at various points in time: DTW-AMS, ATL-AMS, ATL-HNL, JFK-TLV, etc.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
User avatar
AECM
Posts: 234
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:52 am

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:32 pm

FSDan wrote:
Scotron12 wrote:
Is there routes on DLs network that would support an A350-1000??


Trunk hub-to-hub transatlantic routes would be the most likely to see that type, I'd think. MSP/DTW-AMS, ATL-CDG/AMS, JFK-CDG/AMS, etc. Also, look at the non-NRT routes DL used the 744s on at various points in time: DTW-AMS, ATL-AMS, ATL-HNL, JFK-TLV, etc.


Maybe some A35K with a configuration similar to Virgin (C44W56Y235) could work...
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 6044
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:26 pm

FSDan wrote:
Scotron12 wrote:
Is there routes on DLs network that would support an A350-1000??


Trunk hub-to-hub transatlantic routes would be the most likely to see that type, I'd think. MSP/DTW-AMS, ATL-CDG/AMS, JFK-CDG/AMS, etc. Also, look at the non-NRT routes DL used the 744s on at various points in time: DTW-AMS, ATL-AMS, ATL-HNL, JFK-TLV, etc.


Frankly, I don't see it. DL used them on those routes because they had 744s that had to go somewhere - until they all got retired. That's wholly different from paying new-airplane-money for something you don't really want. DL's been complaining that the subfleets of 777/77L/A350 are too small. There's no reason to repeat that mistake with ten or fewer 350-1000s.
 
jagraham
Posts: 946
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:10 pm

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:42 pm

cessna2 wrote:
Oliver2020 wrote:
Do any of you guys in the know have any credible information on the RUMOR of an increase of the A339 order from 35AC to 37AC?

Yes. It was published to the pilot workgroup in this month's A330 newsletter. With the additional deliveries they also added 2 more AC for a total of 37.


There''s also a rumor on a used 77L. And the LATAM thing (DL takes LATAMs A359s and A359 orders). Any possible confirmations on those?
 
jagraham
Posts: 946
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:10 pm

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:44 pm

Scotron12 wrote:
We do not know the composition of the A350s DL will be getting as part of the LATAM deal. Is there routes on DLs network that would support an A350-1000??

Currently their A359s have a total configuration of 306. CX have a total of 292 on their A359s and a total of 334 on their A350-1000s...would that be too big for DL??


I'm sure DL will reconfigure the existing A359s to the current configuration. And have Airbus build the 359 orders to DL standard.
 
Scotron12
Posts: 176
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:13 pm

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:21 pm

jagraham wrote:
Scotron12 wrote:
We do not know the composition of the A350s DL will be getting as part of the LATAM deal. Is there routes on DLs network that would support an A350-1000??

Currently their A359s have a total configuration of 306. CX have a total of 292 on their A359s and a total of 334 on their A350-1000s...would that be too big for DL??


I'm sure DL will reconfigure the existing A359s to the current configuration. And have Airbus build the 359 orders to DL standard.


The remaining LATAM orders are for the.A350-1000, unless DL changes them to the A359.
 
User avatar
VS4ever
Posts: 2285
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:39 pm

Talking of retirement, N180DN (763ER) definitely is showing her age. Flew her last night back from AMS-BOS and even though i had a comfort+ bulkhead seat, it was not a particular pleasant experience. had all the new mod cons and stuff, but at 28 years old, there's just things you can't do, the 333 I had on the way out was so much better from a trip experience. Is there a date for her to leave the fleet, by looking at the above, it appears to be another couple of years yet.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
777Mech
Posts: 801
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:54 pm

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:02 am

VS4ever wrote:
Talking of retirement, N180DN (763ER) definitely is showing her age. Flew her last night back from AMS-BOS and even though i had a comfort+ bulkhead seat, it was not a particular pleasant experience. had all the new mod cons and stuff, but at 28 years old, there's just things you can't do, the 333 I had on the way out was so much better from a trip experience. Is there a date for her to leave the fleet, by looking at the above, it appears to be another couple of years yet.


This ship and most of the 763s are getting a refresh in a couple of years and will soldier on for a few years yet.
 
FSDan
Posts: 2658
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:08 am

777Mech wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
Talking of retirement, N180DN (763ER) definitely is showing her age. Flew her last night back from AMS-BOS and even though i had a comfort+ bulkhead seat, it was not a particular pleasant experience. had all the new mod cons and stuff, but at 28 years old, there's just things you can't do, the 333 I had on the way out was so much better from a trip experience. Is there a date for her to leave the fleet, by looking at the above, it appears to be another couple of years yet.


This ship and most of the 763s are getting a refresh in a couple of years and will soldier on for a few years yet.


How many of the 763s are supposed to get new interiors?
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
1989worstyear
Posts: 666
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2016 6:53 pm

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:17 am

FSDan wrote:
777Mech wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
Talking of retirement, N180DN (763ER) definitely is showing her age. Flew her last night back from AMS-BOS and even though i had a comfort+ bulkhead seat, it was not a particular pleasant experience. had all the new mod cons and stuff, but at 28 years old, there's just things you can't do, the 333 I had on the way out was so much better from a trip experience. Is there a date for her to leave the fleet, by looking at the above, it appears to be another couple of years yet.


This ship and most of the 763s are getting a refresh in a couple of years and will soldier on for a few years yet.


How many of the 763s are supposed to get new interiors?


I'm surprised, but it looks like some are around the same age as their 77E's.
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
NateGreat
Posts: 410
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:02 pm

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:58 am

[twoid][/twoid]
1989worstyear wrote:
FSDan wrote:
777Mech wrote:

This ship and most of the 763s are getting a refresh in a couple of years and will soldier on for a few years yet.


How many of the 763s are supposed to get new interiors?


I'm surprised, but it looks like some are around the same age as their 77E's.

Not sure how long they’re supposed to stay, but I guess the late 90’s-2001 763s can stay awhile for thin routes.
 
777Mech
Posts: 801
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:54 pm

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:33 am

FSDan wrote:
777Mech wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
Talking of retirement, N180DN (763ER) definitely is showing her age. Flew her last night back from AMS-BOS and even though i had a comfort+ bulkhead seat, it was not a particular pleasant experience. had all the new mod cons and stuff, but at 28 years old, there's just things you can't do, the 333 I had on the way out was so much better from a trip experience. Is there a date for her to leave the fleet, by looking at the above, it appears to be another couple of years yet.


This ship and most of the 763s are getting a refresh in a couple of years and will soldier on for a few years yet.


How many of the 763s are supposed to get new interiors?


There's no exact figure atm, they're still deciding on which of the older 763s will get heavy checks or get retired.

Only the 76Ts will get the suites, the rest will just get PY and a refresh. The A330s will get the same treatment only planned to get PY installed. No new suites planned.
 
NateGreat
Posts: 410
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:02 pm

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:14 am

777Mech wrote:
FSDan wrote:
777Mech wrote:

This ship and most of the 763s are getting a refresh in a couple of years and will soldier on for a few years yet.


How many of the 763s are supposed to get new interiors?


There's no exact figure atm, they're still deciding on which of the older 763s will get heavy checks or get retired.

Only the 76Ts will get the suites, the rest will just get PY and a refresh. The A330s will get the same treatment only planned to get PY installed. No new suites planned.

Do you mean that the 76Ts will get the exact same interior as the new 764s? The 764s don’t have actual Delta One Suites, but a modified Delta One seat.

Also, is there any reason why the A330s are getting a half-ashed retrofit, like what AA did with their LUS A332s? I mean, the A330s are better than the pre-retrofit 767s, but you’d think a plane that will be one of the primary backbones of Delta’s international fleet for years to come, as the 767s begin retirement, deserves better than to receive nothing more than Premium Economy. Yes, the A330s are a bit more updated than the 767s (pre-retrofit), but the cabin (especially up front) looks very plain and boring IMO. The whole seat looks plain and the IFE looks dated in comparison to the Suites and the new 764 seat. No Suites, no new Wireless IFE, and no mood lighting? To me, this is a disappointment, and I would take a 20 year old refurbished 767-400 over a Suite-less, mood lighting-less 2 year old A330-300 242 tonne anyday. Sorry about my little rant (not aimed at you in any way, shape, or form), but Delta’s A330 fleet deserves better.
 
User avatar
AECM
Posts: 234
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:52 am

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:31 am

777Mech wrote:
FSDan wrote:
777Mech wrote:

This ship and most of the 763s are getting a refresh in a couple of years and will soldier on for a few years yet.


How many of the 763s are supposed to get new interiors?


There's no exact figure atm, they're still deciding on which of the older 763s will get heavy checks or get retired.

Only the 76Ts will get the suites, the rest will just get PY and a refresh. The A330s will get the same treatment only planned to get PY installed. No new suites planned.


All the A330CEO on the fleet or only the PW birds?
 
hkcanadaexpat
Posts: 3917
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:33 am

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:57 pm

09/23-09/29 Period
Total Fleet: 153
Scheduled Service: 137/153
Spares: 9/153 (4x76T; 1x76L; 1x764; 1x764(DS); 1x77L; 1x333)
Conversion: 4/153 (3x [email protected]; 1x [email protected])
Maintenance: 3/153 ([email protected], [email protected]; [email protected])
Induction/Storage: 0/153

Highlights
> The next 764 (N835MH) in for mods is on its way to CAN via LAX-HNL commercial segments before ferrying HNL-CAN on 10/01
> The next 339 (N404DX) scheduled for delivery on 09/30

Flight/Route Changes
> ATL-CDG (82/83) from 77L to 7HD effective 9/24
> ATL-EZE (101/110) from Daily to x2 effective 9/24
> DTW-CDG (96/97) from 76Z to 76L effective 9/29
> HNL-NGO (611/612) from Daily to x25 effective 9/24
> JFK-CDG (262/263) from 332 to 333 effective 9/26
> JFK-LAX (2346/468) from 764 to 76Z effective 9/24
> JFK-VCE (474/475) from 76L to 76Z effective 9/29
> NRT-SIN (169/168) discontinued effective 9/22

Upgrades from narrowbody fleet
9/23: ATL-MCO; ATL-JFK; MCO-ATL-SLC-HNL
9/24: MCO-ATL; HNL-SLC-ATL-FLL-ATL
9/25: ATL-SLC-HNL
9/26: JFK-ATL; HNL-SLC-ATL-FLL-ATL-MCO; LAS-ATL; JFK-ATL; ATL-MSP
9/27: MCO-ATL-SLC-HNL
9/28: ATL-LAX; LAX-ATL; ATL-DTW-ATL; HNL-SLC-ATL-TPA-ATL
9/29: JFK-DTW; DTW-JFK; ATL-SLC-HNL; JFK-ATL

Charters
9/24-26: ATL-HHN-KWI-HHN-SVN-ATL (military)
9/25: ATL-SAN-LAS (???)
9/27-29: ATL-GRK-MSP-POZ-ADW-PDX-ELP-SEA (military)

Noteworthy Diversions
9/26: ATL-BRU -> JFK (tech)
9/28: ATL-GIG -> ATL (tech)

Flight Cancellations
9/23: MUC-ATL; CDG-DTW
9/26: MNL-NRT; LAX-PVG
 
777Mech
Posts: 801
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:54 pm

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:29 pm

NateGreat wrote:
777Mech wrote:
FSDan wrote:

How many of the 763s are supposed to get new interiors?


There's no exact figure atm, they're still deciding on which of the older 763s will get heavy checks or get retired.

Only the 76Ts will get the suites, the rest will just get PY and a refresh. The A330s will get the same treatment only planned to get PY installed. No new suites planned.

Do you mean that the 76Ts will get the exact same interior as the new 764s? The 764s don’t have actual Delta One Suites, but a modified Delta One seat.

Also, is there any reason why the A330s are getting a half-ashed retrofit, like what AA did with their LUS A332s? I mean, the A330s are better than the pre-retrofit 767s, but you’d think a plane that will be one of the primary backbones of Delta’s international fleet for years to come, as the 767s begin retirement, deserves better than to receive nothing more than Premium Economy. Yes, the A330s are a bit more updated than the 767s (pre-retrofit), but the cabin (especially up front) looks very plain and boring IMO. The whole seat looks plain and the IFE looks dated in comparison to the Suites and the new 764 seat. No Suites, no new Wireless IFE, and no mood lighting? To me, this is a disappointment, and I would take a 20 year old refurbished 767-400 over a Suite-less, mood lighting-less 2 year old A330-300 242 tonne anyday. Sorry about my little rant (not aimed at you in any way, shape, or form), but Delta’s A330 fleet deserves better.


My apologizes, I do mean that the 76Ts will get the modified version of the suite.

For the A330s, I whole heartedly agree. I'm not sure if it's a cost issue, or a seat supplier issue, but I do agree they need to at least get the modified version. If that's the case, I'd assume they'll go back and install the new J cabin.
 
NateGreat
Posts: 410
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:02 pm

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:33 pm

777Mech wrote:
NateGreat wrote:
777Mech wrote:

There's no exact figure atm, they're still deciding on which of the older 763s will get heavy checks or get retired.

Only the 76Ts will get the suites, the rest will just get PY and a refresh. The A330s will get the same treatment only planned to get PY installed. No new suites planned.

Do you mean that the 76Ts will get the exact same interior as the new 764s? The 764s don’t have actual Delta One Suites, but a modified Delta One seat.

Also, is there any reason why the A330s are getting a half-ashed retrofit, like what AA did with their LUS A332s? I mean, the A330s are better than the pre-retrofit 767s, but you’d think a plane that will be one of the primary backbones of Delta’s international fleet for years to come, as the 767s begin retirement, deserves better than to receive nothing more than Premium Economy. Yes, the A330s are a bit more updated than the 767s (pre-retrofit), but the cabin (especially up front) looks very plain and boring IMO. The whole seat looks plain and the IFE looks dated in comparison to the Suites and the new 764 seat. No Suites, no new Wireless IFE, and no mood lighting? To me, this is a disappointment, and I would take a 20 year old refurbished 767-400 over a Suite-less, mood lighting-less 2 year old A330-300 242 tonne anyday. Sorry about my little rant (not aimed at you in any way, shape, or form), but Delta’s A330 fleet deserves better.


My apologizes, I do mean that the 76Ts will get the modified version of the suite.

For the A330s, I whole heartedly agree. I'm not sure if it's a cost issue, or a seat supplier issue, but I do agree they need to at least get the modified version. If that's the case, I'd assume they'll go back and install the new J cabin.

What do you predict the new seat count for the refurbished 76Ts will be?

Hopefully, they’ll at least start with Premium Select and LED mood lighting, then at a later date come back and add Suites and possibly Wireless IFE.
 
User avatar
seabosdca
Posts: 6542
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:33 am

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:09 pm

I suspect it's a sign that the A330 is the aircraft of the future for low-yield TATL leisure routes that have previously been flown by the low-J 767 fleet.
 
777Mech
Posts: 801
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:54 pm

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:50 pm

seabosdca wrote:
I suspect it's a sign that the A330 is the aircraft of the future for low-yield TATL leisure routes that have previously been flown by the low-J 767 fleet.


I do agree with that logic as well. Hopefully TLV will at least get the 339 soon. I can't imagine DL leaving that tired cabin on that route.
 
FSDan
Posts: 2658
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:56 am

hkcanadaexpat wrote:
Upgrades from narrowbody fleet
9/23: ATL-MCO; ATL-JFK; MCO-ATL-SLC-HNL
9/24: MCO-ATL; HNL-SLC-ATL-FLL-ATL
9/25: ATL-SLC-HNL
9/26: JFK-ATL; HNL-SLC-ATL-FLL-ATL-MCO; LAS-ATL; JFK-ATL; ATL-MSP
9/27: MCO-ATL-SLC-HNL
9/28: ATL-LAX; LAX-ATL; ATL-DTW-ATL; HNL-SLC-ATL-TPA-ATL
9/29: JFK-DTW; DTW-JFK; ATL-SLC-HNL; JFK-ATL


With ATL-SLC-HNL-SLC-ATL getting upgauged so regularly (looks like basically every other day), it's surprising DL doesn't find a way to more permanently upgauge this route.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos