airboss787
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 09, 2019 12:54 am

With VX/AS gone on the IND-SFO route and WN significantly downsizing IND-OAK, I can see there being demand for 2x daily year-round UA to SFO. Was on UA500 couple weeks ago and it was a completely full flight not knowing yield. Unless UA is aiming for a premium by having just 1x daily and charging more, I can see 2x daily filling up on a regular basis.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:32 pm

VTORD wrote:
SumChristianus wrote:
United returns mainline in Dec to IND-ORD, one daily 737-800.
However, IND-EWR goes almost all ERJs that month, with only one daily flight on any larger plane (E170)
SFO also is reduced to 1x daily YOY.
DEN sees 2x A320, 1x E70 that month

I thought SFO was 2 x daily only in the summer. Last year and during the winter the noon departure used to be the only non-stop option with the a/c parking overnight in IND and coming back in the morning. Even now it's particularly confusing as I can see the red eye departure from SFO but last week my evening non-stop from IND was cancelled well in advance and I was put on an ORD layover.


I think 2x daily from March through mid-late fall has been the norm, even when AS was in the market.

airboss787 wrote:
With VX/AS gone on the IND-SFO route and WN significantly downsizing IND-OAK, I can see there being demand for 2x daily year-round UA to SFO. Was on UA500 couple weeks ago and it was a completely full flight not knowing yield. Unless UA is aiming for a premium by having just 1x daily and charging more, I can see 2x daily filling up on a regular basis.

UA will probably not expand the route that much. I think your last sentence hits the main point, UA is going to keep as little capacity as possible
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:58 pm

SumChristianus wrote:
United returns mainline in Dec to IND-ORD, one daily 737-800.
However, IND-EWR goes almost all ERJs that month, with only one daily flight on any larger plane (E170)
SFO also is reduced to 1x daily YOY.
DEN sees 2x A320, 1x E70 that month

Yikes, 6x daily of 50 seaters on IND-NYC, that is laughable and I'm sure the pharma companies on that route are going to love it. UA really just gave the finger to its IND passengers.

Last weekend AA extended their schedule through September:
In that schedule release, IND-PHL gained 2x daily mainline service for the afternoon(appears to be targeted at TATL passengers) and IND-ORD retained mainline


T100 Domestic March, International December
DL IND-CDG-75.7%
DL CDG-IND-58.5%

For comparison:
BA BNA-LHR-72.5%
BA LHR-BNA-65.9%

DL IND-CUN-93.6%
AC IND-YYZ-65.1%


AS IND-SEA-84.0%

G4 IND-SRQ-96.0%
G4 IND-PIE-95.6%
G4 IND-SFB-95.5%
G4 IND-FLL-95.1%
G4 IND-LAS-94.7%
G4 IND-PGD-93.6%
G4 IND-JAX-88.8%
G4 IND-MSY-82.8%
G4 IND-SAV-76.7%
G4 IND-CHS-72.9%
AVG of 91.9%

AA IND-LAX-94.1% 2x daily
AA IND-MIA-92.3%
AA IND-ORD-90.1% Envoy Air only
AA IND-CLT-88.5%
AA IND-DFW-88.7%
AA IND-PHX-87.4%
AA IND-JFK-84.2%
AA IND-DCA-82.7%
AA IND-PHL 79.1%
AVG of 81.5% mainline only

DL IND-MIA-96.1%
DL IND-SLC-94.2%
DL IND-MCO 91.7%
DL IND-ATL-91.6%
DL IND-LAX-89.5%
DL IND-RDU-88.9%
DL IND-MSP-84.8%
DL IND-RSW-81.0%
DL IND-DTW-75.9%
DL IND-SEA-74.6%
DL IND-JFK-74.3%
DL IND-BOS-65.2%
AVG of 83.2% mainline only

F9 IND-LAS-96.4%
F9 IND-MCO 96.2%
F9 IND-RSW-96.1%
F9 IND-DEN-93.6%
AVG of 95.7%

WN IND-PHX-95.4%
WN IND-LAX-94.3%
WN IND-LAS-91.1%
WN IND-TPA-90.9%
WN IND-DEN-90.6%
WN IND-DAL-90.1%
WN IND-ATL-89.5%
WN IND-BWI-89.4%
WN IND-RSW-87.5%
WN IND-AUS-86.3%
WN IND-FLL-85.9%
WN IND-BOS-85.1%
WN IND-MSY-85.0%
WN IND-HOU-81.7%
WN IND-OAK-76.7%
WN IND-MCI-73.6%
WN IND-MDW-72.4%

NK IND-MCO 93.0%
NK IND-LAS-91.5%

UA IND-IAH-93.3%
UA IND-DEN-91.6%
UA IND-IAD-91.3%
UA IND-ORD 89.8% Air Wisconsin only
UA IND-EWR-86.0%
UA IND-SFO-82.0%
AVG of 82.5% mainline only

Florida Markets saw unusually high LFs for March:
Orlando: F9 IND-MCO 96.2%, G4 IND-SFB-95.5%, NK IND-MCO 93.0%, WN IND-MCO 92.8%, DL IND-MCO 91.7%
Tampa: G4 IND-PIE-95.6%, WN IND-TPA-90.9%
Fort Myers: F9 IND-RSW-96.1%, G4 IND-PGD-93.6%, WN IND-RSW-87.5%, DL IND-RSW-81.0%
Miami: DL IND-MIA-96.1%, AA IND-MIA-92.3%
Fort Lauderdale: G4 IND-FLL-95.1%, WN IND-FLL-85.9%
Sarasota: G4 IND-SRQ-96.0%
Jacksonville: G4 IND-JAX-88.8%

Makes me think Frontier and Allegiant are doing something horribly wrong or horribly right to have Average LFs that high. Overall though, demand is there for more Spring Break flights

Los Angeles, Denver, and Las Vegas also preformed way above what I expected.

Also work is coming together nicely for FedEx and Infosys, very interesting things expected in the near future for FX as well:
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airboss787
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:47 pm

As a Star Gold based currently at IND, it sucks to have such bad service on UA. It's surprising to see UA can't even send E175s to NYC year round whereas DL manages to send about 10-11 daily ATL flights all on mainline.

On a side note, it seems DL500 has turned around and diverting probably to Detroit.
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:21 am

airboss787 wrote:
On a side note, it seems DL500 has turned around and diverting probably to Detroit.


Seems it diverted due to an unruly passenger https://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/direct-flight-from-indy-to-paris-diverts-to-detroit-due-to-unruly-passenger
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:32 pm

airboss787 wrote:
As a Star Gold based currently at IND, it sucks to have such bad service on UA. It's surprising to see UA can't even send E175s to NYC year round whereas DL manages to send about 10-11 daily ATL flights all on mainline.

On a side note, it seems DL500 has turned around and diverting probably to Detroit.


Is there something that keeps you on UA, I recently stopped flying them altogether and am switching over to almost all AA this year.
kindeham wrote:
airboss787 wrote:
On a side note, it seems DL500 has turned around and diverting probably to Detroit.


Seems it diverted due to an unruly passenger https://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/direct-flight-from-indy-to-paris-diverts-to-detroit-due-to-unruly-passenger


“Unruly” might be an understatement:
https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/del ... icials-say

“ man acting erratically in his seat smacked a flight attendant, shoved other members of the crew and threw up on the plane”

“began throwing punches and trying to bite fellow passengers”
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airboss787
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:37 am

Midwestindy wrote:
airboss787 wrote:
As a Star Gold based currently at IND, it sucks to have such bad service on UA. It's surprising to see UA can't even send E175s to NYC year round whereas DL manages to send about 10-11 daily ATL flights all on mainline.

On a side note, it seems DL500 has turned around and diverting probably to Detroit.


Is there something that keeps you on UA, I recently stopped flying them altogether and am switching over to almost all AA this year.


I travel a few times a year to India and back and will move away from IND sometime next year. So some years back, I found Lufthansa/SWISS/United/Air India seemed very convenient for me to travel. I am not a fan of Air France either. And I got miles for domestic India flights as well. Star Alliance from IND is pretty bad but since it is only one more year for me, I am sticking to it. Let's see what happens after that.
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:24 pm

This is a random aside, but after seeing the #s posted by MidwestFlyer and recalling my flight last Wednesday IND-BOS on WN, I'm surprised WN is ditching the route. 85% LF at that time of year isn't bad and my flight last week was completely sold out. Keeps me thinking WN has shot themselves in the foot at IND with their largely business-traveler unfriendly timings on their business-heavy routes.
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:18 pm

airboss787 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
airboss787 wrote:
As a Star Gold based currently at IND, it sucks to have such bad service on UA. It's surprising to see UA can't even send E175s to NYC year round whereas DL manages to send about 10-11 daily ATL flights all on mainline.

On a side note, it seems DL500 has turned around and diverting probably to Detroit.


Is there something that keeps you on UA, I recently stopped flying them altogether and am switching over to almost all AA this year.


I travel a few times a year to India and back and will move away from IND sometime next year. So some years back, I found Lufthansa/SWISS/United/Air India seemed very convenient for me to travel. I am not a fan of Air France either. And I got miles for domestic India flights as well. Star Alliance from IND is pretty bad but since it is only one more year for me, I am sticking to it. Let's see what happens after that.


Makes sense, it's interesting though because it wasn't always this bad. I remember 1-2 years ago, UA IND-ORD was usually 2x daily mainline + some large RJs and maybe 1-2 50 seaters. IND-IAH had mainline most of the year, and even IND-EWR had mainline. I think since DL ramped up, and AA added more mainline, UA has had to pull down some of its IND service.

indygs wrote:
This is a random aside, but after seeing the #s posted by MidwestFlyer and recalling my flight last Wednesday IND-BOS on WN, I'm surprised WN is ditching the route. 85% LF at that time of year isn't bad and my flight last week was completely sold out. Keeps me thinking WN has shot themselves in the foot at IND with their largely business-traveler unfriendly timings on their business-heavy routes.


I wonder if WN inorganically lowered their prices on this route to hurt DL, causing the higher than expected LF. For instance, last year they only had a 61.5% LF for March, and in terms of passengers they carried 3,494 pax in March '19 and 2,230 pax in March '18. Haven't flown WN in a while, but my last WN flight was IND-BOS which was also sold out.

I hadn't noticed yet, but IND-MDW is now a midday departure and MDW-IND is also a midday departure, meaning it is impossible to do day trips to Chicago on WN now. IND-OAK won't operate for the foreseeable future, so no option for IND-Bay Area on WN. Even service to RSW and TPA is paltry.

I think WN's success, or lack thereof, in IND is their own doing. They had a difficult choice when they cut IND-DCA 2 years ago, but if they didn't cut that route their IND network would look a lot different than it does today
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airboss787
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:53 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
airboss787 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

Is there something that keeps you on UA, I recently stopped flying them altogether and am switching over to almost all AA this year.


I travel a few times a year to India and back and will move away from IND sometime next year. So some years back, I found Lufthansa/SWISS/United/Air India seemed very convenient for me to travel. I am not a fan of Air France either. And I got miles for domestic India flights as well. Star Alliance from IND is pretty bad but since it is only one more year for me, I am sticking to it. Let's see what happens after that.


Makes sense, it's interesting though because it wasn't always this bad. I remember 1-2 years ago, UA IND-ORD was usually 2x daily mainline + some large RJs and maybe 1-2 50 seaters. IND-IAH had mainline most of the year, and even IND-EWR had mainline. I think since DL ramped up, and AA added more mainline, UA has had to pull down some of its IND service.


Yeah it kind of sucks to have such bad service. They don't seem to even show the intent of expanding anymore than they already have. Just having some token flights to hubs a few times a day on sucky 50 seater ERJ145s and CRJ200s is not going to get more flyers to them.

Do you think most of this is down to just United lacking mainline aircraft? Maybe even a 100 seater? I don't see a club happening anytime soon, but surely they can sustain mainline to the bigger cities?
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:24 am

airboss787 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
airboss787 wrote:

I travel a few times a year to India and back and will move away from IND sometime next year. So some years back, I found Lufthansa/SWISS/United/Air India seemed very convenient for me to travel. I am not a fan of Air France either. And I got miles for domestic India flights as well. Star Alliance from IND is pretty bad but since it is only one more year for me, I am sticking to it. Let's see what happens after that.


Makes sense, it's interesting though because it wasn't always this bad. I remember 1-2 years ago, UA IND-ORD was usually 2x daily mainline + some large RJs and maybe 1-2 50 seaters. IND-IAH had mainline most of the year, and even IND-EWR had mainline. I think since DL ramped up, and AA added more mainline, UA has had to pull down some of its IND service.


Yeah it kind of sucks to have such bad service. They don't seem to even show the intent of expanding anymore than they already have. Just having some token flights to hubs a few times a day on sucky 50 seater ERJ145s and CRJ200s is not going to get more flyers to them.

Do you think most of this is down to just United lacking mainline aircraft? Maybe even a 100 seater? I don't see a club happening anytime soon, but surely they can sustain mainline to the bigger cities?


Yes, it is a lack of mainline aircraft and their unwillingness to seriously commit to upgauging.

I've said this a fair amount of times before, but among the US3, UA is 95% of the time not competitive with AA/DL outside of their hub markets due to flying primarily RJ's to their biggest hubs, their lack of clubs in mid-sized airports (compared to Admirals/Sky Clubs) and the lack of a major megahub (a la ATL/DFW) not only to flow a ton of connections through, but to mint profit off of to fund expansion elsewhere.

Unfortunately for UA, all of their hubs face major competition, particularly from WN. Nonetheless, I feel they have the most potential if they just commit to seriously upgauging to mainline and reducing 50 seaters, expanding their JV with LH to cover more mid-sized cities to compete with AA/BA and DL/AF/KL, commit to building out ORD and DEN as their megahubs and putting new clubs in mid-sized markets.
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:53 pm

DL increased IND-JFK to 2x daily during Winter, quite surprising considering the IND-JFK LF was 58%, however it looks like the new frequency might have been added to feed the JFK-BOM flight


airboss787 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
airboss787 wrote:
I travel a few times a year to India and back and will move away from IND sometime next year. So some years back, I found Lufthansa/SWISS/United/Air India seemed very convenient for me to travel. I am not a fan of Air France either. And I got miles for domestic India flights as well. Star Alliance from IND is pretty bad but since it is only one more year for me, I am sticking to it. Let's see what happens after that.


Makes sense, it's interesting though because it wasn't always this bad. I remember 1-2 years ago, UA IND-ORD was usually 2x daily mainline + some large RJs and maybe 1-2 50 seaters. IND-IAH had mainline most of the year, and even IND-EWR had mainline. I think since DL ramped up, and AA added more mainline, UA has had to pull down some of its IND service.


Yeah it kind of sucks to have such bad service. They don't seem to even show the intent of expanding anymore than they already have. Just having some token flights to hubs a few times a day on sucky 50 seater ERJ145s and CRJ200s is not going to get more flyers to them.

Do you think most of this is down to just United lacking mainline aircraft? Maybe even a 100 seater? I don't see a club happening anytime soon, but surely they can sustain mainline to the bigger cities?


In IND, in addition to what Fargo mentioned, it may also be that UA has never been strong in IND. AA has its history in IND with the old US airways hub, and DL had the old NWA focus city. Without ever having a significant history in IND like AA and DL had, they don't have many FFs, and in turn its harder to have substantial service from IND.
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airboss787
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:41 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
DL increased IND-JFK to 2x daily during Winter, quite surprising considering the IND-JFK LF was 58%, however it looks like the new frequency might have been added to feed the JFK-BOM flight


airboss787 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

Makes sense, it's interesting though because it wasn't always this bad. I remember 1-2 years ago, UA IND-ORD was usually 2x daily mainline + some large RJs and maybe 1-2 50 seaters. IND-IAH had mainline most of the year, and even IND-EWR had mainline. I think since DL ramped up, and AA added more mainline, UA has had to pull down some of its IND service.


Yeah it kind of sucks to have such bad service. They don't seem to even show the intent of expanding anymore than they already have. Just having some token flights to hubs a few times a day on sucky 50 seater ERJ145s and CRJ200s is not going to get more flyers to them.

Do you think most of this is down to just United lacking mainline aircraft? Maybe even a 100 seater? I don't see a club happening anytime soon, but surely they can sustain mainline to the bigger cities?


In IND, in addition to what Fargo mentioned, it may also be that UA has never been strong in IND. AA has its history in IND with the old US airways hub, and DL had the old NWA focus city. Without ever having a significant history in IND like AA and DL had, they don't have many FFs, and in turn its harder to have substantial service from IND.


Thanks to both of you. Makes sense, both AA and DL have some kind of history here which makes them a little stronger. UA doesn't and does not seem to be interested in creating that loyalty by giving some importance.
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ibthebigd
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:44 pm

Plus United had the bad PR from closing the Maintenance Facility.

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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:41 am

airboss787 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
DL increased IND-JFK to 2x daily during Winter, quite surprising considering the IND-JFK LF was 58%, however it looks like the new frequency might have been added to feed the JFK-BOM flight


airboss787 wrote:

Yeah it kind of sucks to have such bad service. They don't seem to even show the intent of expanding anymore than they already have. Just having some token flights to hubs a few times a day on sucky 50 seater ERJ145s and CRJ200s is not going to get more flyers to them.

Do you think most of this is down to just United lacking mainline aircraft? Maybe even a 100 seater? I don't see a club happening anytime soon, but surely they can sustain mainline to the bigger cities?


In IND, in addition to what Fargo mentioned, it may also be that UA has never been strong in IND. AA has its history in IND with the old US airways hub, and DL had the old NWA focus city. Without ever having a significant history in IND like AA and DL had, they don't have many FFs, and in turn its harder to have substantial service from IND.


Thanks to both of you. Makes sense, both AA and DL have some kind of history here which makes them a little stronger. UA doesn't and does not seem to be interested in creating that loyalty by giving some importance.


And that’s UA’s problem. Even pre-merger, they never really had a lot of historical ties to non-hub cities. IIRC, other than CLE, they never dehubbed cities to the same extent AA/DL did. Other than a brief 2006 experiment in SAT, they also never bothered to build focus cities like NW/AA did.

Though it is kind of odd airports like IND and MKE don’t have a larger UA presence due to their close proximity to ORD.

I’m not sure how they plan to address this, but sooner or later they will have to.
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:46 pm

I think there is a pretty good chance of a route announcement this week
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:59 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
I think there is a pretty good chance of a route announcement this week


Any guesses on what it might be?
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:07 pm

IndyHoosier wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
I think there is a pretty good chance of a route announcement this week


Any guesses on what it might be?


Lol, no idea, I'm waiting to see if anything materializes.
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kindeham
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:22 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
I think there is a pretty good chance of a route announcement this week


Hmmm seems like an odd time of the year for a route announcement. The one exception I could see to that would be MEX since a spring start would make sense. Hmmm.....
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:34 pm

kindeham wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
I think there is a pretty good chance of a route announcement this week


Hmmm seems like an odd time of the year for a route announcement. The one exception I could see to that would be MEX since a spring start would make sense. Hmmm.....


Probably not MEX, I’m think along the lines of an ULCC
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:36 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
kindeham wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
I think there is a pretty good chance of a route announcement this week


Hmmm seems like an odd time of the year for a route announcement. The one exception I could see to that would be MEX since a spring start would make sense. Hmmm.....


Probably not MEX, I’m think along the lines of an ULCC


Seems kind of early since Spirit the yellow school bus just started but Sun Country? If so, please let IND-PDX be part of that.
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ibthebigd
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:46 pm

G4 to CUN?

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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:02 pm

ibthebigd wrote:
G4 to CUN?

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I wouldn't rule out G4s Mexico plans but I think it is a bit early for that. They said the end of the year (assuming no delay) and we're only half way.

EDIT: I completely forgot about Contour. Could be them.
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Jshank83
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:08 am

Grand Rapids as an announcement tomorrow (2 routes). So that probably means Allegiant or Frontier is doing announcements.
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:22 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
Grand Rapids as an announcement tomorrow (2 routes). So that probably means Allegiant or Frontier is doing announcements.


Allegiant added New Orleans and Jacksonville from GRR yesterday.

https://centreforaviation.com/analysis/reports/delta-air-lines-shifts-its-non-hub-flights-serving-paris-476712

Interesting article about Delta's Paris flights from non-hub cities. Goes into why PIT lost Paris - and why IND/RDU will keep it.
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:28 pm

https://airlinegeeks.com/2019/06/16/st-louis-welcomes-avgeeks-to-inaugrual-stlavday/
Welcoming all airlines to grow St. Louis service, she vows that the airfield will not go down another dehubbing road as it did with American and TWA. Besides that, she also says that Europe remains a high priority and that they are still in talks with airlines about 2020 service following the collapse of WOW air. Domestically, the director specifically listed off Indianapolis, Louisville and Albuquerque as places she would like to see return to the airport’s nonstop route map.


Seems the director of St Louis airport see Indianapolis as a top market they want back.
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:32 pm

Frontier has ordered 18 A321XLR's.

Also speaking at the conference was Barry Biffle, CEO of Frontier Airlines who said serving the U.S. coast-to-coast route during winter with a full payload, had previously been a challenge but the XLR would solve that problem.

He said the airline was also looking at various Hawaii and Alaska routes and hinted that trips to Europe were not out of the question in future.



https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/19/us-private-equity-titan-bill-franke-becomes-latest-airbus-xlr-customer.html
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:51 am

kindeham wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Grand Rapids as an announcement tomorrow (2 routes). So that probably means Allegiant or Frontier is doing announcements.


Allegiant added New Orleans and Jacksonville from GRR yesterday.

https://centreforaviation.com/analysis/reports/delta-air-lines-shifts-its-non-hub-flights-serving-paris-476712

Interesting article about Delta's Paris flights from non-hub cities. Goes into why PIT lost Paris - and why IND/RDU will keep it.


Very interesting read, the article didn't explicitly say whether DL was larger than WN yet in terms of ASMs, but I assume DL is number one now with the west coast service + CDG. I think DL was very deliberate in why they added the flight, and reading through the article furthers my believe that DL will keep it going long-term.

kindeham wrote:
https://airlinegeeks.com/2019/06/16/st-louis-welcomes-avgeeks-to-inaugrual-stlavday/
Welcoming all airlines to grow St. Louis service, she vows that the airfield will not go down another dehubbing road as it did with American and TWA. Besides that, she also says that Europe remains a high priority and that they are still in talks with airlines about 2020 service following the collapse of WOW air. Domestically, the director specifically listed off Indianapolis, Louisville and Albuquerque as places she would like to see return to the airport’s nonstop route map.


Seems the director of St Louis airport see Indianapolis as a top market they want back.


STL is also a top market for IND 8-)
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:26 pm

http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/st ... -passenger

"Frontier says the airline has grown at IND by nearly 15 percent in the past year." :lol: :lol: :lol:

Good one
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:29 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/story/40687567/frontier-airlines-celebrates-4-millionth-passenger

"Frontier says the airline has grown at IND by nearly 15 percent in the past year." :lol: :lol: :lol:

Good one


Yeah, maybe 15 percent and then a massive dump afterward. After all, Frontier loves to do that everywhere. So unstable of an airline network wise.

Oh, and I flew them this month for the first time. Their seats are so hard it makes Allegiant's seats feel like high society.
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SumChristianus
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:56 pm

Fort Myers was the funny one for me when they announced it as something they serve. Not sure if this was even anywhere close to the actual 4,000,000th but a least they made some people happy. Everyone on the flight got a $50 travel voucher - which if "you spend just two bucks more can get you on a flight" as their marketing person, Zach, said.

No chance it (RSW) comes back is there, now with Spirit also on it?
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:06 pm

SumChristianus wrote:
Fort Myers was the funny one for me when they announced it as something they serve. Not sure if this was even anywhere close to the actual 4,000,000th but a least they made some people happy. Everyone on the flight got a $50 travel voucher - which if "you spend just two bucks more can get you on a flight" as their marketing person, Zach, said.

No chance it (RSW) comes back is there, now with Spirit also on it?


They have been running RSW seasonally without interruption for the past couple of years. I don't see Spirit's daily service affecting that especially when Southwest downgraded that route. If Southwest ramps up there again then maybe they would cut it.
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F9LASDEN
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:45 pm

zackary747 wrote:
SumChristianus wrote:
Fort Myers was the funny one for me when they announced it as something they serve. Not sure if this was even anywhere close to the actual 4,000,000th but a least they made some people happy. Everyone on the flight got a $50 travel voucher - which if "you spend just two bucks more can get you on a flight" as their marketing person, Zach, said.

No chance it (RSW) comes back is there, now with Spirit also on it?


They have been running RSW seasonally without interruption for the past couple of years. I don't see Spirit's daily service affecting that especially when Southwest downgraded that route. If Southwest ramps up there again then maybe they would cut it.


F9 loaded their winter schedule earlier this week, and IND-RSW is scheduled to fly again next winter, 3x weekly with an A320

Also on the winter schedule is DEN (4x weekly, A320), LAS (4x weekly, A320) and MCO (4x weekly, A320)
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:52 am

zackary747 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/story/40687567/frontier-airlines-celebrates-4-millionth-passenger

"Frontier says the airline has grown at IND by nearly 15 percent in the past year." :lol: :lol: :lol:

Good one


Yeah, maybe 15 percent and then a massive dump afterward. After all, Frontier loves to do that everywhere. So unstable of an airline network wise.

Oh, and I flew them this month for the first time. Their seats are so hard it makes Allegiant's seats feel like high society.


Convenient that they left out how PHL, TPA, and AUS were all dropped...
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:09 am

Midwestindy wrote:
zackary747 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/story/40687567/frontier-airlines-celebrates-4-millionth-passenger

"Frontier says the airline has grown at IND by nearly 15 percent in the past year." :lol: :lol: :lol:

Good one


Yeah, maybe 15 percent and then a massive dump afterward. After all, Frontier loves to do that everywhere. So unstable of an airline network wise.

Oh, and I flew them this month for the first time. Their seats are so hard it makes Allegiant's seats feel like high society.


Convenient that they left out how PHL, TPA, and AUS were all dropped...


SAN too.
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fedex1
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:36 pm

How many years until the 767’s are retired from Delta’s fleet? Thoughts.

Would that hurt midsized markets like IND, and others when the 767 is retired? Replacement? 757? IND-CDG? Asking, I know nothing about how far a particular plane can go. . . pax load, cargo load..
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:56 pm

fedex1 wrote:
How many years until the 767’s are retired from Delta’s fleet? Thoughts.

Would that hurt midsized markets like IND, and others when the 767 is retired? Replacement? 757? IND-CDG? Asking, I know nothing about how far a particular plane can go. . . pax load, cargo load..


Probably close to a decade before they’re totally gone at Delta.
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:54 pm

fedex1 wrote:
How many years until the 767’s are retired from Delta’s fleet? Thoughts.

Would that hurt midsized markets like IND, and others when the 767 is retired? Replacement? 757? IND-CDG? Asking, I know nothing about how far a particular plane can go. . . pax load, cargo load..


I would have to guess that the replacement would either be the A321XLR (wouldn't really work for the cargo on board) or the Boeing NMA. Really depends what Delta orders. Delta hasn't ordered a 757/767 replacement yet so all we can do is speculate and wait.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:47 pm

Good news, it looks like May/June '19 IND-CDG should surpass May/June '18, haven't seen CDG-IND yet.
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fedex1
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:34 am

Awesome have stated, MidWest?!!?
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:46 am

Stats*
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:50 pm

fedex1 wrote:
Awesome have stated, MidWest?!!?


Probably shouldn't share exact values, considering the month is not over and I don't want to look crazy when the T100 comes out.

I will say that my numbers show May '19 IND-CDG as sizably higher than May '18, but June '19 vs. June '18 looks like it will be closer
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:22 am

Midwestindy wrote:

I will say that my numbers show May '19 IND-CDG as sizably higher than May '18, but June '19 vs. June '18 looks like it will be closer


Eyeballing the future it looks like July '19 will blow July '18 out of the water IND-CDG. There are still some pretty sad days, like last year, but many more that are already 75% or more booked, unlike last year. CDG-IND is lagging behind last year a little bit, but that's really not a bad thing since the whole month of July last year went almost fully booked, which is insane (load factor was something like 93% if I recall correctly?)
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:10 am

kindeham wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

I will say that my numbers show May '19 IND-CDG as sizably higher than May '18, but June '19 vs. June '18 looks like it will be closer


Eyeballing the future it looks like July '19 will blow July '18 out of the water IND-CDG. There are still some pretty sad days, like last year, but many more that are already 75% or more booked, unlike last year. CDG-IND is lagging behind last year a little bit, but that's really not a bad thing since the whole month of July last year went almost fully booked, which is insane (load factor was something like 93% if I recall correctly?)


Interesting, I think IND-CDG growth for July (even with a subsequent drop in CDG-IND) is good for the route. Last July there was a huge gap IND-CDG-50.3% vs. CDG-IND-92.4%, so leveling out the difference will be big.

Late summer/fall looks like it should be a focus though, Aug-Nov were upper 50s to lower 70s, which makes the increase during September interesting as well as the increases to JFK.
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fedex1
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:24 pm

Not being a smarta** but shouldn’t 19’ May pass 18’ May?? They didn’t operate a full month last year...
 
kindeham
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:45 pm

fedex1 wrote:
Not being a smarta** but shouldn’t 19’ May pass 18’ May?? They didn’t operate a full month last year...


I am assuming this was about load factor average for the month. Assuming that's the case then it's just an average per day it operated so how many days it operated is irrelevant.
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:07 pm

Gotcha!
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:19 pm

kindeham wrote:
fedex1 wrote:
Not being a smarta** but shouldn’t 19’ May pass 18’ May?? They didn’t operate a full month last year...


I am assuming this was about load factor average for the month. Assuming that's the case then it's just an average per day it operated so how many days it operated is irrelevant.


Bingo
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:36 pm

Southwest extended Max cuts thru Oct 1, and IND loses OAK and 1x PHX for that period.

What this means is that during September, DL and AA will be running more seats/depatures than WN, and UA will be operating more departures per day than WN as well....

Saturday's will be especially bad, with only 21 departures: 1xATL/PHX/TPA/RSW, 2xBWI, no OAK, no LAX, very surprising that even with MAX issues and it being slow season that they can only muster up 1 daily flight to ATL, PHX, TPA, and RSW on a Saturday
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:15 pm

DL has extended the B738 on IND-SLC through Dec 1, added the CR9 to RDU in November. Hopefully the west coast performance this year, could lead to a second frequency next summer to LAX/SLC
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