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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:21 pm
by southwest1675
Midwestindy wrote:
southwest1675 wrote:
Any word on Contour looking at IND?


Not sure on the timeline but it should be within the next month or so, IND has been behind on everything as of late.

The Airport Director said there were supposed to be some announcements early this year however nothing as of yet, the airport hasn't even released 2018 numbers yet!!!


In BNA, there’s rumblings that Contour will be starting IND service on the 135, so we’ll definitely see. I’ve flown them before. I was pretty impressed.

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:36 pm
by Midwestindy
August int’l
DL IND-CDG-56.4% cargo: 100,687; CDG-IND-71.1% cargo: 286,132
Not a good month for the CDG flight, silver lining is the CDG-IND leg carried more cargo than SLC, RDU, PIT, MCO, CVG, e.t.c

DL IND-CUN-41.4%; CUN-IND-92.7% (2 flights each way)

AC IND-YYZ-70.1%; YYZ-IND-75.1%

November Domestic
AA
IND-DFW-85.3%; DFW-IND-86.0%
IND-PHX-83.8%; PHX-IND-83.3%
IND-LAX-83.2%; LAX-IND-86.7%
IND-MIA-82.0%; MIA-IND-79.2%
IND-LGA-81.7%; LGA-IND-77.3%
IND-DCA-79.5%; DCA-IND-74.4%
IND-JFK-78.7%; JFK-IND-80.6%
IND-PHL-71.7%; PHL-IND-70.9%
IND-ORD-71.5%; ORD-IND-74.3% (Envoy/Mainline only)
Notes: AA is very good at managing their capacity, if you look at their LF data, it generally stays the same month/month

AS
IND-SEA-77.6%; SEA-IND-84.8%
Notes: From the naked eye, these look like average numbers. However, considering this flight is ran at the same time as the DL flight, and these numbers are from November, I’d say this is a pretty strong route for AS.

DL
IND-ATL-92.1%; ATL-IND-89.8% (Transported #26 most cargo on DL from ATL)
IND-RDU-88.2%; RDU-IND-92.0%
IND-SLC-87.8%; SLC-IND-90.3%
IND-BOS-86.6%; BOS-IND-91.3%
IND-MCO-81.1%; MCO-IND-81.4%
IND-MSP-80.8%; MSP-IND-79.5%
IND-JFK-80.1%; JFK-IND-79.3%
IND-LAX-79.8%; LAX-IND-76.6%
IND-LGA-79.7%; LGA-IND-79.2%
IND-DTW-78.1%; DTW-IND-80.0%
IND-SEA-69.3%; SEA-IND-78.1%
Notes: Not sure what contributed to the high LFs from ATL, RDU, BOS, and SLC. ATL was 10x daily, so an increase from all MD88s could be in order, all the other high LF routes will see more capacity this year.

F9
IND-AUS-92.2%; AUS-IND-82.2%
IND-DEN-91.7%; DEN-IND-92.6%
IND-LAS-91.7%; LAS-IND-85.8%
IND-SAN-88.7%; SAN-82.7% A321
IND-MCO-87.0%; MCO-IND-87.5% A321
IND-RSW-79.7%; RSW-IND-72.4%
Notes: Status Quo, LFs don’t mean much for F9’s model

G4
IND-LAS-91.5%; LAS-IND-92.5%
IND-FLL-88.5%; FLL-IND-89.4%
IND-PIE-88.4%; PIE-IND-89.5%
IND-SFB-87.7%; SFB-IND-89.2%
IND-SRQ-85.3%; SRQ-IND-87.7%
IND-PGD-82.0%; PGD-IND-86.9%
IND-AUS-79.7%; AUS-IND-76.1%
IND-CHS-73.7%; CHS-IND-76.1%
IND-JAX-73.3%; JAX-IND-75.0%
Notes: Probably wise that CHS is getting trimmed, everything else appears to be were it should

UA
IND-EWR-88.1%; EWR-IND-87.7%
IND-IAH-88.1%; IAH-IND-89.3%
IND-DEN-87.1%; DEN-IND-86.5%
IND-IAD-84.6%; IAD-IND-84.5%
IND-ORD-81.7%; ORD-IND-81.6%
IND-SFO-78.2%; SFO-IND-80.6%
Notes: Status Quo, watch the EWR LFs starting in January.

WN
IND-PHX-95.6%; PHX-IND-93.9% (738)
IND-LAX-91.9%; LAX-IND-89.3% (mostly 737)
IND-MCO-90.8%; MCO-IND-84.2% 737
IND-ATL-88.9%; ATL-IND-81.6% (mostly 737)
IND-TPA-88.6%; TPA-IND-84.3% (mostly 737)
IND-DAL-88.4%; DAL-IND-90.5% (mostly 737)
IND-HOU-87.8%; HOU-IND-88.5% (Half 737/738)
IND-DEN-87.2%; DEN-IND-88.9% (Half 737/738)
IND-LAS-86.5%; LAS-IND-91.0% (mostly 738)
IND-BOS-84.6%; BOS-IND-79.7% (mostly 737)
IND-BWI-83.2%; BWI-IND-89.3% (mostly 737)
IND-FLL-81.8%; FLL-IND-79.0% (Half 737/738)
IND-AUS-81.4%; AUS-IND-87.2% 737
IND-RSW-80.2%; RSW-IND-81.1% (mostly 737)
IND-MDW-77.4%; MDW-IND-71.7% 737
IND-MSY-71.1%; MSY-IND-94.4% 737
IND-MCI-70.7%; MCI-IND-74.8% 737
IND-OAK-70.1%; OAK-IND-82.2% (mostly 738)
IND-EWR-68.6%; EWR-IND-62.1% (Half 737/738)
Notes: Cuts to EWR/BOS should boost BWI Loads. PHX will likely see an extra frequency for the November extension, there is plenty of room to add more capacity if WN is willing to stop losing market share.

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:22 pm
by indygs
Yowzers. IND-CDG at 56% in August. I wonder if it'll climb back above that before year's end.

Interesting to see DL's performance being pretty strong elsewhere, too. Doesn't seem there's much bleed to the CDG route on other connecting traffic through DL hubs.

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:57 pm
by Midwestindy
indygs wrote:
Yowzers. IND-CDG at 56% in August. I wonder if it'll climb back above that before year's end.

Interesting to see DL's performance being pretty strong elsewhere, too. Doesn't seem there's much bleed to the CDG route on other connecting traffic through DL hubs.


I agree those numbers aren't good, I'll have to keep an eye out for Sep-Feb and numbers for the rest of this year, as that will determine whether DL will continue to keep it year-round.

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:09 pm
by stlgph
as I recall, IND/CDG airfares alone for Paris were hitting roughly $1300+ for coach, $2000+ for comfort plus, and $5000+ for business class.

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:29 pm
by Fargo
Does IND not have as much traffic to Paris as say, London or Amsterdam? Would BA or DL to LHR or AMS do better out of IND?

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:22 pm
by ncflyer
Do schools return in August in Indiana, or after Labor Day? The trend has been to go back to school earlier and earlier. Good for kids, bad for tourism, bad for filling the back of airplanes.

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:46 pm
by kavok
stlgph wrote:
as I recall, IND/CDG airfares alone for Paris were hitting roughly $1300+ for coach, $2000+ for comfort plus, and $5000+ for business class.


DL is known for not dropping their pricing to increase LF. As part of their long game, it seems they’d rather fly at “normal” TATL pricing (similar to what you described) at a 60% load factor, compared to offering bargain pricing in order to fill the plane.

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:38 pm
by Midwestindy
ncflyer wrote:
Do schools return in August in Indiana, or after Labor Day? The trend has been to go back to school earlier and earlier. Good for kids, bad for tourism, bad for filling the back of airplanes.


Late July, or First week of August is when Indianapolis Public Schools go back. IU and Purdue go back Mid-August

Fargo wrote:
Does IND not have as much traffic to Paris as say, London or Amsterdam? Would BA or DL to LHR or AMS do better out of IND?


LHR-IND-LHR was 3x the O&D of CDG-IND-CDG from May 2017-May 2018, and the difference is even larger between LHR and AMS from/to IND.

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:32 pm
by Fargo
Midwestindy wrote:
LHR-IND-LHR was 3x the O&D of CDG-IND-CDG from May 2017-May 2018, and the difference is even larger between LHR and AMS from/to IND.


So in other words, BA should be doing IND-LHR instead of DL doing IND-CDG?

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:00 pm
by Midwestindy
Fargo wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
LHR-IND-LHR was 3x the O&D of CDG-IND-CDG from May 2017-May 2018, and the difference is even larger between LHR and AMS from/to IND.


So in other words, BA should be doing IND-LHR instead of DL doing IND-CDG?


Not saying all that, but there is a lot of O&D to LHR. DL makes sense since they have a sizable FF base in IND plus a Skyclub.

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:17 am
by Indy
The cargo is a big money maker and so is F and premium economy. As long as those seats are selling and the belly is full of cargo, the route is fine. I wish the route were IND-AMS instead. I know I'm not alone. I really have no interest in connecting in CDG. AMS is just so much more convenient. But then again the back of he plane doesn't keep the route operating so who cares what I think :-)

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:55 am
by flyboy80
With the VS JV perhaps it makes more sense for DL, with their local market presence, to serve LHR from IND as a seasonal supplement to CDG. I’m not sure how or with what availability of equipment. I’ve heard DLs IND-CDG’s largest connecting market is India. I know VS is increasing India flights from LHR but I’m out of the loop on that, thinking it was something to do with Jet Airways issues. Perhaps the issues will drive changes to the network. Also, CDG remains viable for the N. Africa connections and is an excellent stop for everything Intra Europe and to the Middle East.. Really the game seems to be about the balance of O&D with local demand to increase revenues. And obviously local LHR, or terminating LHR customers, from Indy would probably drive a good premium vs connecting opportunities on non DL flights with US and EU carriers via places like ORD, EWR, JFK, PHL, IAD, and even BOS. Then again, such an LHR flight would need a slot and an aircraft to operate and given demand daily is out of the question.

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:18 am
by stlgph
Of interest, while Delta was charging $1300+ and beyond for IND/CDG and more for IND/CDG-XXX ... United and American were chiming in with airfares to several destinations in the $700-$800 range and beyond. At least through the sale on OTAs, they were making efforts to get into the eurogame from the IND market.

Of course that summer seasonal add on American from IND to PHL times nicely into connecting to the eurobank out of PHL.

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:42 pm
by Midwestindy
Noticed some DL changes today:

May is up to 22 mainline flights
IND-MSP goes up to 4x mainline, compared to 2x in May
IND-DTW B757 extended from May-August
IND-RDU CR9 extended from May-August
IND-LGA 4/5 flights are E175 for June-End of Schedule

Meanwhile this summer UA is running
IND-IAH (1 E170, 4 E145)
IND-IAD (2 CR7, 1 CR2, E145)
IND-ORD (2 E175, 2 E170, 4 CR2)
IND-EWR (2 E175, 1 E170, 3 E145)

Indy 500 changes:
DL
IND-DTW up to 4 mainline (1 B757, 3 B717)
IND-MSP one frequency upguaged to A319
IND-ATL 3x 757

Previously mentioned Indy 500 changes:
AA
IND-DFW gains a A321 Thu-Sat
IND-DCA goes up to 7x daily for Fri
IND-CLT 4x mainline Fri, 5x mainline Sat, 3x mainline Sun, 4x mainline Mon, 3x mainline Tue
IND-PHX gains a 738
IND-PHX/DFW/LGA gain a frequency

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:16 pm
by VTORD
flyboy80 wrote:
With the VS JV perhaps it makes more sense for DL, with their local market presence, to serve LHR from IND as a seasonal supplement to CDG. I’m not sure how or with what availability of equipment. I’ve heard DLs IND-CDG’s largest connecting market is India. I know VS is increasing India flights from LHR but I’m out of the loop on that, thinking it was something to do with Jet Airways issues.

I saw a tweet somewhere about VS going double daily on LHR-DEL (slots coming from AF/KLM so I am assuming they are the LHR slots we are talking of here). But I believe it was more to do with JV being approved than the problems at 9W which are still far from being over. Their current schedule (in addition to the daily 9W) doesn't really work for onward connections to NA so an overnight departure from DEL would remedy that. They are well-covered from BOM with 9W running 3 x daily 77W to LHR. But haven't seen anything official yet.

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:54 pm
by indygs
Speaking with SkyClub folks in IND yesterday they said this week IND-CDG went out with a full Delta One cabin, which is certainly good news. But, also wonder how many of those are paid seats or just non-revs repositioning to IND for a good seat to hop the pond. I'm hopeful it'll continue to fill--at least for now there are still RTs for $500 or so IND-CDG but they're charging in some cases the equivalent of your first-born for flights over the summer, in both miles and dollars.

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:44 pm
by fedex1
Damn IND -CDG isn’t as good as everyone said, with that data. Will IND end up like PIT did summer seasonal?

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:22 pm
by FlyingElvii
southwest1675 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
southwest1675 wrote:
Any word on Contour looking at IND?


Not sure on the timeline but it should be within the next month or so, IND has been behind on everything as of late.

The Airport Director said there were supposed to be some announcements early this year however nothing as of yet, the airport hasn't even released 2018 numbers yet!!!


In BNA, there’s rumblings that Contour will be starting IND service on the 135, so we’ll definitely see. I’ve flown them before. I was pretty impressed.


IND-BNA is a route that has needed new service for a long time.

Can't support much, but it was the most profitable O+D on the Saab for old CQ.

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:53 am
by Midwestindy
FlyingElvii wrote:
southwest1675 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

Not sure on the timeline but it should be within the next month or so, IND has been behind on everything as of late.

The Airport Director said there were supposed to be some announcements early this year however nothing as of yet, the airport hasn't even released 2018 numbers yet!!!


In BNA, there’s rumblings that Contour will be starting IND service on the 135, so we’ll definitely see. I’ve flown them before. I was pretty impressed.


IND-BNA is a route that has needed new service for a long time.

Can't support much, but it was the most profitable O+D on the Saab for old CQ.


I think it is a matter of time, hopefully if Contour does end up trying it, they will stimulate/test the market for WN to come in and try it. I think the IND and BNA are too close for a ULCC like G4, so it would have to be a legacy/WN for the route to work.

Considering how long J1 operated IND-PIT, I think there is a market for these types of routes between mid-sized cities, you just need the right airline trying it.

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:35 am
by ibthebigd
I think routes like:
PIT
MEM
MKE
CLE
All could be doable by the right airline



Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:49 pm
by Midwestindy
cvgComair wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
I just came across 3 SY jets that flew IND-MBJ flights all on the same day (last Thursday):

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/SCX ... /KIND/MKJS
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/SCX ... /KIND/MKJS
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/SCX ... /KIND/MKJS

And looking at the history of these flights on flightaware, it looks like SY runs these flights quite often. I didn't know IND had any scheduled SY flights at all. Are they just regularly scheduled charter flights, and who uses them?

I don't know who they are being operated for, but SY has been running a bunch of charter flights in the midwest recently. CVG even setup check-in counters for SY.


Likely this: https://www.beckshybrids.com/Programs/Travel-Programs
https://www.beckshybrids.com/Portals/0/ ... de-Web.pdf

Beck's (seed company based in Indiana) has a rewards program for customers who buy X dollars worth of seeds, which includes trips to Jamaica.

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:45 pm
by fedex1
They ( Becks ) take off Friday, and return Friday... take off Monday return Monday to Jamaica.... leaving from Indianapolis Executive Airport..

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:31 am
by Midwestindy
fedex1 wrote:
They ( Becks ) take off Friday, and return Friday... take off Monday return Monday to Jamaica.... leaving from Indianapolis Executive Airport..


Not the ones mentioned, as I have seen Becks signage at the airport at one of the far check-in counters

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:35 am
by fedex1
Sorry!

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:02 pm
by FlyingElvii
ibthebigd wrote:
I think routes like:
PIT
MEM
MKE
CLE
All could be doable by the right airline



Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Mke and CLE were always good runs, supporting 4x service easily in 30-seaters. Mem was kinda marginal, even in the Britt day’s. The huge loss of manufacturing has really affected the demand, I believe.

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:22 pm
by Midwestindy
What is going on at the airport? No December numbers, No 2018 numbers, No Concessions Refresh updates, No announcements of any kind........odd, just odd considering we are approaching the end of February.

FlyingElvii wrote:
ibthebigd wrote:
I think routes like:
PIT
MEM
MKE
CLE
All could be doable by the right airline



Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Mke and CLE were always good runs, supporting 4x service easily in 30-seaters. Mem was kinda marginal, even in the Britt day’s. The huge loss of manufacturing has really affected the demand, I believe.


Ultimate was looking into service Cleveland-Indy a while back

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:26 pm
by zackary747
Midwestindy wrote:
What is going on at the airport? No December numbers, No 2018 numbers, No Concessions Refresh updates, No announcements of any kind........odd, just odd considering we are approaching the end of February.


Yeah, it just seems like they're way behind schedule or something. Still wondering what the status of Contour is. Maybe they're waiting for the airport to get their crap together.

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:46 pm
by Midwestindy
zackary747 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
What is going on at the airport? No December numbers, No 2018 numbers, No Concessions Refresh updates, No announcements of any kind........odd, just odd considering we are approaching the end of February.


Yeah, it just seems like they're way behind schedule or something. Still wondering what the status of Contour is. Maybe they're waiting for the airport to get their crap together.


Could be because a lot of the IAA staff was in Quebec for Routes Americas, but the fact that they haven't even released 2018 numbers at this point is just weird. All their social media appears to be behind as well too

IAA must be missing in action, considering G4/NK/SY/F9/AC/e.t.c have announced new/expanded routes and IND missed out on all of those recent announcements

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:03 pm
by stlgph
As far as routes and services go - there's nothing for them to announce.

As far as numbers and other terminal services go - could be because they are without a General Counsel. The position was posted on Indeed and LinkedIn a few weeks ago.

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:56 pm
by Midwestindy
stlgph wrote:
As far as routes and services go - there's nothing for them to announce.


The airport director said otherwise a few months ago....

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/201 ... 987328002/

"But Mario Rodriguez, executive director of the Indianapolis Airport Authority, said airport leaders don't intend to rest on the laurels of a second quarter that added three new nonstop destinations, including the first nonstop transatlantic flight to Paris.

Instead, he urged passengers to be on the lookout for new flight announcements and an ongoing effort to the make the Indianapolis airport the best place to have a layover.

"We just announced a new nonstop to San Diego. We are also looking at points down south to Mexico, and we’re also looking overseas into Europe a little bit more, so you probably will see a little bit more coming either towards the end of the year or the beginning of next year," he told IndyStar. "I am very confident that we’re going to have new, upcoming announcements pretty soon that will be very, very intriguing."

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:11 pm
by stlgph
Mario is 10 percent eyebrows and 90 percent air.

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:14 pm
by Midwestindy
City pair-Avg Fare-Largest Carrier/Market Share
IND-NYC-726 PDEW-$193-DL/39%
IND-DC-557 PDEW-$182-AA/45%
IND-DEN-504 PDEW-$187-WN/61%
IND-LA-466 PDEW-$274-WN/38%
IND-MCO-441 PDEW-$150-WN/64%
IND-DEN-421 PDEW-$199-WN/45%
IND-LAS-407 PDEW-$173-WN/56%
IND-SF-404 PDEW-$254-UA/38%
IND-ATL-381 PDEW-$186-DL/72%
IND-DAL-343 PDEW-$238-AA/69%
IND-TPA/PIE-332 PDEW-$147-WN/61%
IND-MIA/FLL-297 PDEW-$169-WN/35%
IND-SEA-261 PDEW-$247-AS/39%
IND-PHX-231 PDEW-$262-WN/47%
IND-HOU-220 PDEW-$250-UA/48%
IND-MSP-216 PDEW-$252-DL/84%
IND-PHL-180 PDEW-$287-AA/81%
IND-SAN-166 PDEW-$227-WN/51%
IND-CHI-149 PDEW-$172-AA/53%
IND-RSW-148 PDEW-$168-WN/78%
IND-CLT-139 PDEW-$271-AA/84%
IND-AUS-128 PDEW-$180-WN/41%
IND-MCI-119 PDEW-$197-WN/82%
IND-RDU-111 PDEW-$211-DL/57%
IND-PDX-109 PDEW-$261-WN/31%
IND-SLC-102 PDEW-$254-DL/50%
IND-MSY-85 PDEW-$191-WN/47%
IND-SAT-76 PDEW-$206-WN/43%
IND-PGD-72 PDEW-$80-G4/100%
IND-JAX-65 PDEW-$191-G4/31%
IND-DTW-63 PDEW-$317-DL/91%
IND-SMF-61 PDEW-$291-WN/49%
IND-BDL-50 PDEW-$258-AA/35%

IND-SFO grew from (297 PDEW to 404 PDEW)

Some Regional routes
IND-ORF-47 PDEW
IND-OMA-32 PDEW
IND-RIC-31 PDEW
IND-PWM-29 PDEW
IND-GSO-27 PDEW
IND-MEM-25 PDEW
IND-ALB-25 PDEW
IND-PIT-22 PDEW
IND-ROC-20 PDEW
IND-BHM-20 PDEW
IND-DSM-20 PDEW
IND-CLE-16 PDEW

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:12 am
by Midwestindy

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:58 pm
by Midwestindy
https://d1j6zi7czwjuok.cloudfront.net/i ... _FINAL.pdf

2018 YE numbers

9,413,962 7.1%

DEC
AS -30.4%
AC +6.4%
G4 +20.1%
AA +6.1%
DL +11.5%
F9 -15.8%
WN -1.6%
UA +3.2%

Total Passengers
WN-2,920,055
DL-2,191,905
AA-2,059,249
UA-1,186,743
G4-532,086
F9-276,636
AS-158,866
AC-60,688





https://d1j6zi7czwjuok.cloudfront.net/i ... _FINAL.pdf

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:20 am
by Indy
It would take a 6.4% traffic increase in 2019 to hit 10 million passengers.

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 2:46 pm
by Midwestindy
Indy wrote:
It would take a 6.4% traffic increase in 2019 to hit 10 million passengers.


That’s going to be hard to do, G4 growth will slow down this year, and WN/AS/UA numbers will shrink as well. I expect some marginal growth from AA, plus growth from DL and NK could potentially get IND to 9.8

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:35 pm
by flyboy80
And CVG is still behind IND in terms of pax? I know CVG has grown recently too, but I guess thats not saying much as many airports have seen some good growth in recent years. I've always expected CVG to out perform IND with Delta's former hub there, and the fact Delta still offers much more service from CVG vs IND. Outside of a DL CVG vs DL IND comparison and directly comparing all carriers between the two airports- It seems WN is relatively smaller in CVG vs IND and same for AA. Perhaps DL is filling a certain niche, for now, in CVG while also still benefitting from connecting traffic from its larger P2P network.

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:17 am
by Midwestindy
flyboy80 wrote:
And CVG is still behind IND in terms of pax? I know CVG has grown recently too, but I guess thats not saying much as many airports have seen some good growth in recent years. I've always expected CVG to out perform IND with Delta's former hub there, and the fact Delta still offers much more service from CVG vs IND. Outside of a DL CVG vs DL IND comparison and directly comparing all carriers between the two airports- It seems WN is relatively smaller in CVG vs IND and same for AA. Perhaps DL is filling a certain niche, for now, in CVG while also still benefitting from connecting traffic from its larger P2P network.


The major difference between the two is the sizable presence of AA/WN in IND. CVG's growth is leveling off however, so I expect IND to be slightly larger for the meantime. CVG also benefits from the abundance of ULCC service there, once NK enters IND it will begin to even itself out on the ULCC front

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:08 pm
by flyboy80
But in terms of overall passengers, IND is still ahead of CVG correct? I knlw the numbers are presented in different formats, but I’m interested in local traffic statistics- not connecting. I believe Indianapolis has a slightly larger economic footprint than the cvg area, but that means little when comparing this metric. IND’s catchment area competes with ORD.

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:09 pm
by flyboy80
Does anyone have a former timetable or recall Delta’s pre 2000s operations at IND. including regular daily scheduled services and aircraft types.?

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:11 pm
by SumChristianus
flyboy80 wrote:
Does anyone have a former timetable or recall Delta’s pre 2000s operations at IND. including regular daily scheduled services and aircraft types.?

Try http://departedflights.com
DL in June of 1999 flew the MD80 to ATL (6x daily) and CVG (2x daily), CRJ200s (4x daily) and E120s (2x daily) to CVG and Delta Express flew 4x daily 737-200s to MCO and daily to TPA.
In total: 19 daily flights, 8x MD80, 5x 732, 4x CR2, 2x EM2 (one less EM2 on Saturday)

Full schedules avaialble here: http://www.departedflights.com/IND99p1.html

They've definitely grwon a lot since!

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:12 pm
by Midwestindy
flyboy80 wrote:
But in terms of overall passengers, IND is still ahead of CVG correct? I know the numbers are presented in different formats, but I’m interested in local traffic statistics- not connecting. I believe Indianapolis has a slightly larger economic footprint than the cvg area, but that means little when comparing this metric. IND’s catchment area competes with ORD.


IND is ahead of CVG in terms of overall travelers, and O&D.

CVG had 93% local traffic (which excludes connections), which led to 8.3 million local passengers. source(https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/ ... ntier.html)

IND is 95% local traffic which led to ~8.9 million local passengers.

IND and CVG have around the same number of connecting passengers at this point

flyboy80 wrote:
Does anyone have a former timetable or recall Delta’s pre 2000s operations at IND. including regular daily scheduled services and aircraft types.?

1983
http://www.departedflights.com/DL121583p52.html

1991
http://www.departedflights.com/IND91intro.html

1995
http://www.departedflights.com/IND95intro.html

1999
http://www.departedflights.com/IND99intro.html

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:20 pm
by Midwestindy
Noticed something interesting today, it looks like DL is adding trucking routes into IND from non-hub stations.

For example it looks like they are sending cargo from ORD-IND 6 days a week, and there are only a handful of other routes like that, that don't touch a hub/focus city. This will probably ramp up again after March considering IND-CDG is only 3 weekly currently.

https://www.deltacargo.com/content/dam/ ... hedule.pdf

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:43 pm
by flyguy89
flyboy80 wrote:
And CVG is still behind IND in terms of pax? I know CVG has grown recently too, but I guess thats not saying much as many airports have seen some good growth in recent years. I've always expected CVG to out perform IND with Delta's former hub there, and the fact Delta still offers much more service from CVG vs IND. Outside of a DL CVG vs DL IND comparison and directly comparing all carriers between the two airports- It seems WN is relatively smaller in CVG vs IND and same for AA. Perhaps DL is filling a certain niche, for now, in CVG while also still benefitting from connecting traffic from its larger P2P network.

CVG has had a much deeper hole to climb out of from years of local O&D suppression from high fares. As recently as 2013 the airport saw only 5.7 million pax. In 2018 they've now reported 8.9 million pax. Given a year or two, the two airports will pretty much reach parity.

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 4:18 pm
by Midwestindy
flyguy89 wrote:
flyboy80 wrote:
And CVG is still behind IND in terms of pax? I know CVG has grown recently too, but I guess thats not saying much as many airports have seen some good growth in recent years. I've always expected CVG to out perform IND with Delta's former hub there, and the fact Delta still offers much more service from CVG vs IND. Outside of a DL CVG vs DL IND comparison and directly comparing all carriers between the two airports- It seems WN is relatively smaller in CVG vs IND and same for AA. Perhaps DL is filling a certain niche, for now, in CVG while also still benefitting from connecting traffic from its larger P2P network.


CVG has had a much deeper hole to climb out of from years of local O&D suppression from high fares. As recently as 2013 the airport saw only 5.7 million pax. In 2018 they've now reported 8.9 million pax. Given a year or two, the two airports will pretty much reach parity.


CVG has the cheapest fares in the region which is boosting O&D numbers, even with significantly cheaper prices, IND is still larger. I think the difference between the two will be around 500k-1 million.

Objectively IND serves a larger population, and the IND CSA is growing much faster, in addition to having a larger GDP and a higher per capita income

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:09 pm
by flyboy80
I never knew US had a small Express operation in IND with Do328 and SF340s. I guess this must be a remanent of the US Air hub days in IND. Us Air was sure concentrated in this quadrant of the country with hubs in BOS, DCA, CLT, PHL, PIT, IND, and even DAY I think at one point?

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:08 pm
by stlgph
flyboy80 wrote:
I never knew US had a small Express operation in IND with Do328 and SF340s. I guess this must be a remanent of the US Air hub days in IND. Us Air was sure concentrated in this quadrant of the country with hubs in BOS, DCA, CLT, PHL, PIT, IND, and even DAY I think at one point?


oh yes, Concourse D was quite a busy place and lots of US Air Express props running around.

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:48 pm
by flyguy89
Midwestindy wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
flyboy80 wrote:
And CVG is still behind IND in terms of pax? I know CVG has grown recently too, but I guess thats not saying much as many airports have seen some good growth in recent years. I've always expected CVG to out perform IND with Delta's former hub there, and the fact Delta still offers much more service from CVG vs IND. Outside of a DL CVG vs DL IND comparison and directly comparing all carriers between the two airports- It seems WN is relatively smaller in CVG vs IND and same for AA. Perhaps DL is filling a certain niche, for now, in CVG while also still benefitting from connecting traffic from its larger P2P network.


CVG has had a much deeper hole to climb out of from years of local O&D suppression from high fares. As recently as 2013 the airport saw only 5.7 million pax. In 2018 they've now reported 8.9 million pax. Given a year or two, the two airports will pretty much reach parity.


CVG has the cheapest fares in the region which is boosting O&D numbers, even with significantly cheaper prices, IND is still larger. I think the difference between the two will be around 500k-1 million.

Objectively IND serves a larger population, and the IND CSA is growing much faster, in addition to having a larger GDP and a higher per capita income

Eh doubtful. Cincy and Indy are pretty much the same size with regard to population, GDP and per capita income...nothing that would translate into a 500k-1 million pax difference. Given another year or so to catch up, IND and CVG will essentially be serving near-same pax volumes. The Cincinnati market has only had 2-3 years of exposure to affordable airfare verses decades-worth for IND, so market dynamics are still adjusting.

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:39 pm
by flyPIT
The topic of how Fed Ex's expansion will look like comes up from time to time. I'm not sure if these diagrams are new but I have never seen them posted. The expansion seems to follow what I expected - substantial ramp space between the new runway and I-70. Looks like they can roughly triple ramp space.

Image

Other aspects of the master plan:
Image
Image

https://www.rsandh.com/projects/indianapolis-international-airport/