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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat May 11, 2019 4:18 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4AY63l6ttE

We will match Memphis in the next 5 years, and become the largest in 15 years (17 minute mark)

220 million dollar investment this year in infrastructure

Now we are looking at the drive markets (30 minute mark) 50 passenger aircraft, looking to regional airlines who will be able to serve that:
Here are some markets that could fit the bill IMO:
PVD
ORF
BDL
BNA
PIT
CLE
OMA
MEM
BUF
MKE
STL
BMH

Latin America(Mexico)-Mexico City-launching pad to handle connecting traffic- Mexico City is a closer in goal

Longer term goal
Asia-Pacific-working on a Tokyo route
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Bluegrass60
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat May 11, 2019 5:27 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4AY63l6ttE

We will match Memphis in the next 5 years, and become the largest in 15 years (17 minute mark)

220 million dollar investment this year in infrastructure

Now we are looking at the drive markets (30 minute mark) 50 passenger aircraft, looking to regional airlines who will be able to serve that:
Here are some markets that could fit the bill IMO:
PVD
ORF
BDL
BNA
PIT
CLE
OMA
MEM
BUF
MKE
STL
BMH

Latin America(Mexico)-Mexico City-launching pad to handle connecting traffic- Mexico City is a closer in goal

Longer term goal
Asia-Pacific-working on a Tokyo route


"IND Stats: March YTD PAX up 2.1% and Cargo down 3.1%. Would be great to see all those drive markets served by air...which carrier is changing their business model to do that? IND is not getting a Tokyo route anytime soon. It appears the CDG route will run out of subsidy money before it completes 2 full years....

April 2018 FX announced $1B MEM expansion: The Memphis hub will remain the company’s No. 1 hub in the U.S. and globally, Cunningham said. The company previously announced a $1.5 billion project at its No. 2 hub in Indianapolis. "The Indy hub is an important hub to us," Cunningham said. "It is a hub that’s much smaller than the Memphis hub. This will remain the largest, most complex, most capable hub that we have anywhere in the system.”."
 
Jshank83
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat May 11, 2019 9:26 pm

Midwestindy wrote:

Now we are looking at the drive markets (30 minute mark) 50 passenger aircraft, looking to regional airlines who will be able to serve that:
Here are some markets that could fit the bill IMO:
PVD
ORF
BDL
BNA
PIT
CLE
OMA
MEM
BUF
MKE
STL
BMH



What airline are we thinking? Contour? or someone else?
 
pmanni1
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat May 11, 2019 9:26 pm

Bluegrass60 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4AY63l6ttE

We will match Memphis in the next 5 years, and become the largest in 15 years (17 minute mark)

220 million dollar investment this year in infrastructure

Now we are looking at the drive markets (30 minute mark) 50 passenger aircraft, looking to regional airlines who will be able to serve that:
Here are some markets that could fit the bill IMO:
PVD
ORF
BDL
BNA
PIT
CLE
OMA
MEM
BUF
MKE
STL
BMH

Latin America(Mexico)-Mexico City-launching pad to handle connecting traffic- Mexico City is a closer in goal

Longer term goal
Asia-Pacific-working on a Tokyo route


"IND Stats: March YTD PAX up 2.1% and Cargo down 3.1%. Would be great to see all those drive markets served by air...which carrier is changing their business model to do that? IND is not getting a Tokyo route anytime soon. It appears the CDG route will run out of subsidy money before it completes 2 full years....

April 2018 FX announced $1B MEM expansion: The Memphis hub will remain the company’s No. 1 hub in the U.S. and globally, Cunningham said. The company previously announced a $1.5 billion project at its No. 2 hub in Indianapolis. "The Indy hub is an important hub to us," Cunningham said. "It is a hub that’s much smaller than the Memphis hub. This will remain the largest, most complex, most capable hub that we have anywhere in the system.”."


I don't know that any airlines would add service to many of the above cities if the airport is growing at 2.1%. Would need growth like AUS and BNA at 13% growth to get these adds.
 
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun May 12, 2019 1:49 am

Bluegrass60 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4AY63l6ttE

We will match Memphis in the next 5 years, and become the largest in 15 years (17 minute mark)

220 million dollar investment this year in infrastructure

Now we are looking at the drive markets (30 minute mark) 50 passenger aircraft, looking to regional airlines who will be able to serve that:
Here are some markets that could fit the bill IMO:
PVD
ORF
BDL
BNA
PIT
CLE
OMA
MEM
BUF
MKE
STL
BMH

Latin America(Mexico)-Mexico City-launching pad to handle connecting traffic- Mexico City is a closer in goal

Longer term goal
Asia-Pacific-working on a Tokyo route


"IND Stats: March YTD PAX up 2.1% and Cargo down 3.1%. Would be great to see all those drive markets served by air...which carrier is changing their business model to do that? IND is not getting a Tokyo route anytime soon. It appears the CDG route will run out of subsidy money before it completes 2 full years....

April 2018 FX announced $1B MEM expansion: The Memphis hub will remain the company’s No. 1 hub in the U.S. and globally, Cunningham said. The company previously announced a $1.5 billion project at its No. 2 hub in Indianapolis. "The Indy hub is an important hub to us," Cunningham said. "It is a hub that’s much smaller than the Memphis hub. This will remain the largest, most complex, most capable hub that we have anywhere in the system.”."


What makes you think the CDG flight will run out of subsidy money before the 2 years ends????

In theory Contour could serve a couple of those routes. Allegiant could do PVD.
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southwest1675
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun May 12, 2019 2:02 am

BNA-IND will happen eventually. I’d prefer to see it on WN, but I wouldn’t rule out DL, G4, or LF.
Herb Kelleher 1931-2019
 
Delta28L
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun May 12, 2019 2:40 am

southwest1675 wrote:
BNA-IND will happen eventually. I’d prefer to see it on WN, but I wouldn’t rule out DL, G4, or LF.


Be quicker to drive down I-65
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun May 12, 2019 1:53 pm

Bluegrass60 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Longer term goal
Asia-Pacific-working on a Tokyo route

IND is not getting a Tokyo route anytime soon.


That's why they said longer term goal, and IND is around the 4th largest unserved US market from TYO, so it isn't a pipe dream
pmanni1 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
PVD
ORF
BDL
BNA
PIT
CLE
OMA
MEM
BUF
MKE
STL
BMH

I don't know that any airlines would add service to many of the above cities if the airport is growing at 2.1%. Would need growth like AUS and BNA at 13% growth to get these adds.

1. I don't understand the logic there, you don't need to have X % growth in order to add Y destination(s)
2. I never said all those routes should be served, I said those are some of the markets that could fit the description given.
3. BNA, CLE, MKE, MEM, and PIT have all been served in the past 10 or so years, but were cut mostly due to outside factors.
Jshank83 wrote:
What airline are we thinking? Contour? or someone else?

Hopefully Contour, I would not like to see Via come in with their terrible track record. Plus considering Contour is getting an interline agreement, that could be extremely beneficial

southwest1675 wrote:
BNA-IND will happen eventually. I’d prefer to see it on WN, but I wouldn’t rule out DL, G4, or LF.


I doubt G4, they don't usually deal with routes that are below a 6-7 hour drive
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun May 12, 2019 8:23 pm

Midwestindy wrote:

Plus considering Contour is getting an interline agreement, that could be extremely beneficial


Who are they planning to make an interline agreement with?
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jplatts
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun May 12, 2019 8:48 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
southwest1675 wrote:
BNA-IND will happen eventually. I’d prefer to see it on WN, but I wouldn’t rule out DL, G4, or LF.


I doubt G4, they don't usually deal with routes that are below a 6-7 hour drive


While G4 does operate AZA-LAS nonstop route, which is only 276 miles long, most of G4's nonstop routes are much longer than AZA-LAS. The BNA-IND is 249 miles long, which is slightly shorter than G4's AZA-LAS nonstop route.

WN already operates many nonstop routes similar in length to IND-BNA such as ATL-JAX, BWI-ISP, BWI-RDU, BUR-LAS, MDW-CVG, MDW-STL, DAL-HOU, DAL-SAT, DAL-TUL, DSM-STL, MCI-STL, LAS-LAX, LAS-PHX, LAS-SNA, LAS-SAN, and BNA-STL.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun May 12, 2019 11:17 pm

zackary747 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

Plus considering Contour is getting an interline agreement, that could be extremely beneficial


Who are they planning to make an interline agreement with?


Sounds like it will be AA, but no one seems to be sure yet since it hasn't been announced.
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Jshank83
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun May 12, 2019 11:22 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
zackary747 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

Plus considering Contour is getting an interline agreement, that could be extremely beneficial


Who are they planning to make an interline agreement with?


Sounds like it will be AA, but no one seems to be sure yet since it hasn't been announced.


I also will be curious if it will just be EAS contracts or everything. I could see regionals getting mad if they ran something like IND-BNA/STL/MEM on contour instead of american eagle. But I also don't know how those contracts work.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon May 13, 2019 12:06 am

Jshank83 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
zackary747 wrote:

Who are they planning to make an interline agreement with?


Sounds like it will be AA, but no one seems to be sure yet since it hasn't been announced.


I also will be curious if it will just be EAS contracts or everything. I could see regionals getting mad if they ran something like IND-BNA/STL/MEM on contour instead of american eagle. But I also don't know how those contracts work.


Good point, it will probably be EAS only, but I'm hoping it won't be. They would get away with it considering they run 30 seater aircraft as opposed to 40-50 seater aircraft.
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ATAIndy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon May 13, 2019 4:32 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
We will match Memphis in the next 5 years, and become the largest in 15 years (17 minute mark)


Realistically speaking this won't happen, let's think about it for a minute. MEM is FIVE TIMES as busy at IND in cargo. That means traffic has to double and then double again, and it still won't be as busy as MEM. I think what is more realistic is that IND will be about half the size of MEM in five years. Construction on the new sort building hasn't even started yet and when it is done peak packages per hour still won't be double what peak is today. So either a) FX will be doing three sorts a day in addition to increasing the size of day sort, or b) a third sort building is proposed somewhere at the airport, or c) the airport is a tad optimistic. All this without a third parallel.

I think c) is most likely. No doubt FX is growing, but we won't match Memphis in the next 5 years.
Boiler up!
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon May 13, 2019 7:54 pm

The IND-CDG has been doing quite well for the past few weeks, and the rest of May appears to be quite full as well, very good sign entering year 2

ATAIndy wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
We will match Memphis in the next 5 years, and become the largest in 15 years (17 minute mark)


Realistically speaking this won't happen, let's think about it for a minute. MEM is FIVE TIMES as busy at IND in cargo. That means traffic has to double and then double again, and it still won't be as busy as MEM. I think what is more realistic is that IND will be about half the size of MEM in five years. Construction on the new sort building hasn't even started yet and when it is done peak packages per hour still won't be double what peak is today. So either a) FX will be doing three sorts a day in addition to increasing the size of day sort, or b) a third sort building is proposed somewhere at the airport, or c) the airport is a tad optimistic. All this without a third parallel.

I think c) is most likely. No doubt FX is growing, but we won't match Memphis in the next 5 years.


The airport sure has some lofty goals set for themselves, but I admire the forward thinking attitude
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fedex1
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon May 13, 2019 10:45 pm

Some one mentioned that their subsidy has almost been paid out in full? Or getting closer.. is that good? You people have a lot more knowledge than I do, I just read and then ask really dumb questions. Sorry.
 
fedex1
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon May 13, 2019 10:48 pm

I should say Delta ( CDG ) subsidy....
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue May 14, 2019 12:20 am

fedex1 wrote:
Some one mentioned that their subsidy has almost been paid out in full? Or getting closer.. is that good? You people have a lot more knowledge than I do, I just read and then ask really dumb questions. Sorry.


The more incentive paid to DL the better the route is doing, the incentive is paid per passenger enplaned.

More passengers=more incentive dollars given to DL

I believe max payout is 5.5 mil, 3.5 in the first year and 2 mil in the second.
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fedex1
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue May 14, 2019 1:07 am

Thanks for explaining!!
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu May 16, 2019 12:54 am

Interesting stuff in the board meeting packet, highlighted important pieces:
https://d1j6zi7czwjuok.cloudfront.net/i ... 0416143404

Lease Agreement with Air Express International USA, Inc. d/b/a DHL Global Forwarding
"Due to global increases in the air cargo forwarding business and the need for DHL to establish an additional
location in the Midwest, DHL has identified IND as a location to expand its air cargo business. As such,
Tenant requires warehouse space with airside access to establish a distribution location in Indiana. To this
end, DHL will be leasing 19,038 square feet of warehouse space located at the IMC. Tenant will install cold
storage and complete other minor improvements to the space."

"In order for Tenant to be permitted to exercise an option to extend the Term, at least one (1) regularly
scheduled new (i.e., not currently in effect as of the Effective Date) weekly cargo flight to or from the Airport
to or from the following international destination countries: Mexico, Europe, Asia, Africa, Central America
and/or South America, not served or being served by Airport or Option Term(s) may not be exercised
. Option
Term(s) are by mutual agreement based upon new International Service as stated above. Tenant will
commence operations with no flight activity
and will truck cargo to their Hub in Cincinnati."

"The AUA Agreement is structured as a five-year agreement with no extension periods. The lease
will govern the method by which Airline rates & charges are calculated through the term of the
lease (2019 – 2023).
Delta Air Lines, Inc., American Airlines, Inc., Allegiant Travel Company/Allegiant Air, LLC., and
Frontier Airlines, Inc. have communicated that they expect to execute the AUA Agreement and
return to the Authority by 5/31/2019.
The purpose of this Board Memo is to bring forward the individual AUA Agreements executed by
the signatory airlines. For the May 2019 Board Meeting the following signatory airlines are being
brought forward for document execution. They are: FedEx Express Corporation, Southwest
Airlines Co., United Airlines, Inc. and Cargolux Airlines International S.A."
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu May 16, 2019 1:13 am

Midwestindy wrote:
Interesting stuff in the board meeting packet, highlighted important pieces:
https://d1j6zi7czwjuok.cloudfront.net/i ... 0416143404

"In order for Tenant to be permitted to exercise an option to extend the Term, at least one (1) regularly
scheduled new (i.e., not currently in effect as of the Effective Date) weekly cargo flight to or from the Airport
to or from the following international destination countries: Mexico, Europe, Asia, Africa, Central America
and/or South America, not served or being served by Airport or Option Term(s) may not be exercised
. Option
Term(s) are by mutual agreement based upon new International Service as stated above. Tenant will
commence operations with no flight activity
and will truck cargo to their Hub in Cincinnati."


I'm not sure if I am fully comprehending the language in this correctly. Is DHL going to add a cargo flight out of here in the future?
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu May 16, 2019 1:57 am

zackary747 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Interesting stuff in the board meeting packet, highlighted important pieces:
https://d1j6zi7czwjuok.cloudfront.net/i ... 0416143404

"In order for Tenant to be permitted to exercise an option to extend the Term, at least one (1) regularly
scheduled new (i.e., not currently in effect as of the Effective Date) weekly cargo flight to or from the Airport
to or from the following international destination countries: Mexico, Europe, Asia, Africa, Central America
and/or South America, not served or being served by Airport or Option Term(s) may not be exercised
. Option
Term(s) are by mutual agreement based upon new International Service as stated above. Tenant will
commence operations with no flight activity
and will truck cargo to their Hub in Cincinnati."


I'm not sure if I am fully comprehending the language in this correctly. Is DHL going to add a cargo flight out of here in the future?


Yes, they would not be granted airside land otherwise
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu May 16, 2019 7:41 am

Midwestindy wrote:
zackary747 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Interesting stuff in the board meeting packet, highlighted important pieces:
https://d1j6zi7czwjuok.cloudfront.net/i ... 0416143404

"In order for Tenant to be permitted to exercise an option to extend the Term, at least one (1) regularly
scheduled new (i.e., not currently in effect as of the Effective Date) weekly cargo flight to or from the Airport
to or from the following international destination countries: Mexico, Europe, Asia, Africa, Central America
and/or South America, not served or being served by Airport or Option Term(s) may not be exercised
. Option
Term(s) are by mutual agreement based upon new International Service as stated above. Tenant will
commence operations with no flight activity
and will truck cargo to their Hub in Cincinnati."


I'm not sure if I am fully comprehending the language in this correctly. Is DHL going to add a cargo flight out of here in the future?


Yes, they would not be granted airside land otherwise


Thanks for the clarification. I just wanted to make sure I was reading that correctly. The statement that said "Tenant will
commence operations with no flight activity and will truck cargo to their Hub in Cincinnati" kind of threw me off the loop.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri May 17, 2019 1:46 am

Quick update on November:
IND-CDG was at 65.2% LF
CDG-IND was at 62.4% LF

for a quick data point comparison
BA BNA-LHR averaged 149 pax per flight, compared to IND-CDG at 145 pax per flight
and pretty similar numbers on LHR-BNA(143 pax per flight) and CDG-IND(141 pax per flight), so overall IND is keeping up from a load perspective with similar markets.

February Domestic Loads, keep in mind this is dead season
DL IND-SLC-91.9%
DL IND-MCO-89.2%
DL IND-ATL-88%
DL IND-LAX-86.7%
DL IND-SEA-55.9%


AA IND-MIA 88.4%
AA IND-LAX 85.3%

AS IND-SEA-72.5%

WN IND-BOS 54.3%
WN IND-MCI 54.1%
WN IND-OAK 71.2%
WN IND-MCO 87.8%
WN IND-RSW 91.4%
WN IND-PHX-92.7%

UA IND-DEN 88.8%
UA IND-SFO 74.6%
UA IND-EWR 73.2%

ULCC
Allegiant needs more capacity next February to these destinations
G4 IND-PGD 95.8%
G4 IND-PIE 93.0%
G4 IND-SFB 92.7%
G4 IND-FLL 92.2%
G4 IND-SRQ 91.2%

Frontier as well
F9 IND-MCO 94.2%
F9 IND-LAS 93.8%
F9 IND-DEN 90.5%
F9 IND-RSW 88.5%
F9 IND-SAN 78.6%

Fort Myers area seems quite underserved:
G4 IND-PGD 95.8%
WN IND-RSW 91.4%
F9 IND-RSW 88.5%

Interested to see March data with NK in play
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GSOtoIND
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri May 17, 2019 5:57 am

Midwestindy wrote:
February Domestic Loads, keep in mind this is dead season
DL IND-SLC-91.9%


Was January the only month where this route was under a 90% LF? It's impressive how strong this route is. It looks like the 738 is staying on it until at least late October. I bet it'll be extended even further. Remember when it was an RJ during fall/winter 2017?
IND. 2018: BOS/AUA/MIA/DEN Next: LAS/SLC/DEN
 
fedex1
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat May 18, 2019 12:20 am

So we are on par with BNA - LHR service and we don’t have LHR service... isn’t that a good sign for IND?!?
 
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flyPIT
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat May 18, 2019 12:32 am

zackary747 wrote:
The statement that said "Tenant will
commence operations with no flight activity and will truck cargo to their Hub in Cincinnati" kind of threw me off the loop.

That’s what it said and what I read as well.
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat May 18, 2019 3:43 am

zackary747 wrote:
The statement that said "Tenant willcommence operations with no flight activity and will truck cargo to their Hub in Cincinnati" kind of threw me off the loop.

The legalese is that contractual statement produces head spin.

Air Express International USA (DHL) has executed an agreement with IAA to lease 19,038 square feet of warehouse space located at the IMC. The term of the agreement is for three years, beginning May 17, 2019, and ending May 16, 2022. The agreement allows for two, two-year extension options. Now, for DHL — i.e., the "Tenant" — to exercise an option to extend, it must establish at least one new weekly cargo flight to an international destination, excluding Canada and various other locations, and not served or being served by airport. So, if DHL decides to do, let's say, IND-DUB, but another company is already flying it, they need to find an additional or another destination not served by the airport, or the option terms to extend the contract may not be exercised. At first, DHL will commence operations at IND with no flight activity and will utilize ground transportation to move cargo to/from its Cincinnati facility.

Whew. I think I got that right.

It's possible DHL, initially, will be processing cargo at IND transported on commercial airline flights or other flights carrying cargo. For instance, the company might be utilizing DL's CDG-IND flight to bring cargo into the Midwest, but needs to truck it to its hub at Cincinnati for distribution, and vice versa. It appears the DHL contract has been written, to some extent, to protect the interests of FedEx, which has, as we know, a large and growing presence at IND.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat May 18, 2019 7:15 pm

GSOtoIND wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
February Domestic Loads, keep in mind this is dead season
DL IND-SLC-91.9%


Was January the only month where this route was under a 90% LF? It's impressive how strong this route is. It looks like the 738 is staying on it until at least late October. I bet it'll be extended even further. Remember when it was an RJ during fall/winter 2017?


Not too long ago it was summer seasonal only
2018 IND-SLC
Jan-91.1% E175
Feb-94.9% E175
Mar-85.6% A319
Apr-76.2% A319
May-89.5% A319
Jun-92.3% A319
Jul-90.1% B738
Aug-88.2% B738/A319
Sep-93.1% A319
Oct-90.6% A319
Nov-87.8% A319
Dec-88.0% A319

2019
Jan-83.2% A319
Feb-91.9% A319

It's been nice to see the route grow, really surprised that they didn't put a B739 on the route this summer, but maybe they were being conservative since LAX and MSP are getting upguages. I give it a 80% chance they add a B739/A321 next summer, unless they add an extra frequency to SLC, SEA, LAX, or MSP

ITB wrote:
zackary747 wrote:
The statement that said "Tenant willcommence operations with no flight activity and will truck cargo to their Hub in Cincinnati" kind of threw me off the loop.

The legalese is that contractual statement produces head spin.

Air Express International USA (DHL) has executed an agreement with IAA to lease 19,038 square feet of warehouse space located at the IMC. The term of the agreement is for three years, beginning May 17, 2019, and ending May 16, 2022. The agreement allows for two, two-year extension options. Now, for DHL — i.e., the "Tenant" — to exercise an option to extend, it must establish at least one new weekly cargo flight to an international destination, excluding Canada and various other locations, and not served or being served by airport. So, if DHL decides to do, let's say, IND-DUB, but another company is already flying it, they need to find an additional or another destination not served by the airport, or the option terms to extend the contract may not be exercised. At first, DHL will commence operations at IND with no flight activity and will utilize ground transportation to move cargo to/from its Cincinnati facility.

Whew. I think I got that right.

It's possible DHL, initially, will be processing cargo at IND transported on commercial airline flights or other flights carrying cargo. For instance, the company might be utilizing DL's CDG-IND flight to bring cargo into the Midwest, but needs to truck it to its hub at Cincinnati for distribution, and vice versa. It appears the DHL contract has been written, to some extent, to protect the interests of FedEx, which has, as we know, a large and growing presence at IND.


Seems like you got it down
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu May 23, 2019 2:17 am

Tomorrow marks the 1 year anniversary(considering it 1 year since the flight started on a Thursday) of the start of the CDG flight, I have noticed some higher pre-bookings yoy in addition to higher fares, both good indicators of future success moving into its second year
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fedex1
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu May 23, 2019 3:01 am

Good news for IND, love to see them do well with CDG!
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu May 23, 2019 5:03 am

Midwestindy wrote:
Bluegrass60 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Longer term goal
Asia-Pacific-working on a Tokyo route

IND is not getting a Tokyo route anytime soon.


That's why they said longer term goal, and IND is around the 4th largest unserved US market from TYO, so it isn't a pipe dream
pmanni1 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
PVD
ORF
BDL
BNA
PIT
CLE
OMA
MEM
BUF
MKE
STL
BMH

I don't know that any airlines would add service to many of the above cities if the airport is growing at 2.1%. Would need growth like AUS and BNA at 13% growth to get these adds.

1. I don't understand the logic there, you don't need to have X % growth in order to add Y destination(s)
2. I never said all those routes should be served, I said those are some of the markets that could fit the description given.
3. BNA, CLE, MKE, MEM, and PIT have all been served in the past 10 or so years, but were cut mostly due to outside factors.
Jshank83 wrote:
What airline are we thinking? Contour? or someone else?

Hopefully Contour, I would not like to see Via come in with their terrible track record. Plus considering Contour is getting an interline agreement, that could be extremely beneficial

southwest1675 wrote:
BNA-IND will happen eventually. I’d prefer to see it on WN, but I wouldn’t rule out DL, G4, or LF.


I doubt G4, they don't usually deal with routes that are below a 6-7 hour drive

Contour could easily do a BNA-IND-MKE twice a day without any big operational effort, but it would still require subsidy. Both are a 5+ hour drive. The issue is traffic, of course. MKE and BNA were big moneymakers on the turboprops, but MKE turned into a loser on the CRJ. (At various times there 6-8 turboprop trips a day MKE-IND).
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri May 24, 2019 11:23 am

"A year later, the flight’s attraction is fully meeting our expectations, with more than 1,000 passengers on average flying between Indianapolis and Paris weekly"

"In fact, Delta has added a Monday flight to Paris in September, bringing the total flights per week to six in the early fall. In September, flights from Indy to Paris are scheduled to fly Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Overall, the route's frequency increases during the spring, summer and fall months, reaching peak daily service throughout the summer season"

"And, Bishop said, Delta has indicated that it plans to increase the frequency of the Paris route this September. Frequency fluctuates depending on time of year, but last year Delta offered the route five days a week in September. This year, Bishop said, that will increase to six days."

"More international and domestic travel opportunities lie ahead as the Indy airport and its city, state and tourism partners prepare to host the 2020 Routes Americas convention next year."

"It can take years to bring new routes and new airlines to our market,” said Marsha Stone, IAA senior director of commercial enterprise. “But Routes Americas, which is like an aviation industry business incubator, will position Indianapolis right at the center of crucial relationships with airline decision makers that can help expedite and compress that timeline"

“These are not bad figures for a ramp-up period,” said Madhu Unnikrishnan, editor of the aviation industry publication Skift Airline Weekly.

"That is “definitely encouraging” for Indianapolis, Unnikrishnan said. “Any time an airline adds more service, it means they think the route’s going well.”

"Another sign of the route’s strong showing: It took less than a year for Delta to earn the full $3.5 million in first-year economic incentives allowed under its contract with the Indiana Economic Development Corp."

"Delta hit its incentives cap by the end of the first quarter of this year, said IEDC spokeswoman Abby Gras."

She said in an email that state officials are “really encouraged by the performance of this route—it’s clear that there is a need and a want for increased connectivity between Indiana and global markets like Europe.”

“The route has performed as well as other established markets with similar service, which is a promising sign, and we look forward to continuing the momentum heading into year two,” Gras said.

*(Incorrect)Indianapolis is one of 17 U.S. cities from which Delta offers nonstop service to Paris. And since the route launched here, it has drawn plenty of attention from other airlines.

“Every airline we have talked to since we’ve launched Paris is interested in the success of that flight,” Bishop said. “It has certainly elevated the conversation and piqued the interest.”

For Indianapolis passengers who use the Paris flight as a connector, the Indian cities of Delhi, Mumbai and Bangalore and the Italian cities of Florence and Rome are top destinations, Bishop said.

The tech and pharmaceutical industries are big in India, as they are in Indianapolis. And providing easier access to India is significant in and of itself, Skift Airline Weekly’s Unnikrishnan said.

Delta declined to answer questions about the route’s performance or how it compares with international routes the airline has launched in other midsize markets.

But an airline representative said in an email that many customers have told Delta the route “is meaningful to them.”

“We look forward to flying more customers to more places—and also welcoming back many of the same customers—in our second year of Indianapolis-Paris service,” spokeswoman Morgan Durrant said.

International flights from midsize U.S. markets don’t always succeed, Unnikrishnan said.
Indianapolis is in a different position, Unnikrishnan said.

Its economy is stronger than many of its peers, and the presence of several multinational companies here helps strengthen demand for international flights. Also, Indianapolis was a mini hub for Northwest Airlines, which has since been acquired by Delta. This gives Indianapolis a core of loyal Delta customers, he said.

“I think Indianapolis has a lot of things going for it that a lot of other midsize cities don’t have.”•

https://www.ibj.com/articles/73896-one- ... lying-high

http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/st ... s-one-year

https://www.ind.com/about/media/media-r ... ing-strong
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fedex1
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri May 24, 2019 1:43 pm

So adding a additional flight during the fall? How long does CDG stay 6x weekly, until it drops to 3x weekly?

I would say that’s a win for Indianapolis!?
 
kindeham
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri May 24, 2019 2:26 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
"A year later, the flight’s attraction is fully meeting our expectations, with more than 1,000 passengers on average flying between Indianapolis and Paris weekly"

"In fact, Delta has added a Monday flight to Paris in September, bringing the total flights per week to six in the early fall. In September, flights from Indy to Paris are scheduled to fly Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Overall, the route's frequency increases during the spring, summer and fall months, reaching peak daily service throughout the summer season"


This puts to bed any concern about Indy losing the flight or it going seasonal I do believe. You don't add service to something you're going to cut, that's for sure!
 
Jshank83
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri May 24, 2019 2:54 pm

kindeham wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
"A year later, the flight’s attraction is fully meeting our expectations, with more than 1,000 passengers on average flying between Indianapolis and Paris weekly"

"In fact, Delta has added a Monday flight to Paris in September, bringing the total flights per week to six in the early fall. In September, flights from Indy to Paris are scheduled to fly Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Overall, the route's frequency increases during the spring, summer and fall months, reaching peak daily service throughout the summer season"


This puts to bed any concern about Indy losing the flight or it going seasonal I do believe. You don't add service to something you're going to cut, that's for sure!


Unless you are WOW.
 
kindeham
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri May 24, 2019 3:06 pm

Jshank83 wrote:

Unless you are WOW.


I think we can all agree WOW was a "special" airline.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat May 25, 2019 1:33 pm

kindeham wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
"A year later, the flight’s attraction is fully meeting our expectations, with more than 1,000 passengers on average flying between Indianapolis and Paris weekly"

"In fact, Delta has added a Monday flight to Paris in September, bringing the total flights per week to six in the early fall. In September, flights from Indy to Paris are scheduled to fly Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Overall, the route's frequency increases during the spring, summer and fall months, reaching peak daily service throughout the summer season"


This puts to bed any concern about Indy losing the flight or it going seasonal I do believe. You don't add service to something you're going to cut, that's for sure!


This might be the most important quote in the article: "An airline representative said in an email that many customers have told Delta the route “is meaningful to them.”
If you have important customers(corporations) who want a route to stay, there is a good chance the route won't go anywhere.

However there is some degree of exposure with so many of the passengers on IND-CDG connecting to India, and DL opening a JFK-BOM flight later this year. If they can keep Cummins, Infosys, e.t.c flying through CDG it should be fine.


“Every airline we have talked to since we’ve launched Paris is interested in the success of that flight,” Bishop said. “It has certainly elevated the conversation and piqued the interest.”
^This sounds interesting as well
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fedex1
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun May 26, 2019 6:34 pm

So the JFK - BOM flight on Delta might actually hurt the IND - CDG flight?
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun May 26, 2019 11:14 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
However there is some degree of exposure with so many of the passengers on IND-CDG connecting to India, and DL opening a JFK-BOM flight later this year. If they can keep Cummins, Infosys, e.t.c flying through CDG it should be fine.


fedex1 wrote:
So the JFK - BOM flight on Delta might actually hurt the IND - CDG flight?


I think DL will aim the JFK flight quite heavily at the local O&D market to go head-to-head with UA and steal some of the ME3 traffic back. With AI exiting the route, DL has more piece of the pie. IMHO, IND-JFK-BOM for e.g., doesn't really offer a big advantage over IND-CDG-BOM schedule/time-wise. So the negative exposure should really be minimal. I think.
 
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Runway28L
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon May 27, 2019 1:55 am

Did Jet Airways code share on IND-CDG last summer, or at all for that matter?
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Fargo
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon May 27, 2019 4:11 am

fedex1 wrote:
So the JFK - BOM flight on Delta might actually hurt the IND - CDG flight?


I doubt it.

Who in their right mind would want to connect in JFK vs Europe? Especially if one wishes to connect to a secondary city in India like BLR, MAA, HYD, etc. Two stops instead of one, including going through JFK customs on the inbound? No thanks.....

CDG isn’t great for connections, but if one has the option to bypass the stateside hubs, one should take advantage of that.
 
stlgph
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon May 27, 2019 5:11 am

Delta @ JFK = same terminal connections, in english.
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stl07
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon May 27, 2019 6:22 am

stlgph wrote:
Delta @ JFK = same terminal connections, in english.

Yup. CDG is a pain. JFK, not so much.
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stl07
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon May 27, 2019 6:27 am

Fargo wrote:
fedex1 wrote:
So the JFK - BOM flight on Delta might actually hurt the IND - CDG flight?


I doubt it.

Who in their right mind would want to connect in JFK vs Europe?

CDG isn’t great for connections, but if one has the option to bypass the stateside hubs, one should take advantage of that.

Why? Unless I have enough time to go out and see the city in Europe (highly recommend btw), I always connect stateside. If my connecting flight is delayed or cancelled, I hop on Amtrak or drive back home. Also, it is a whole lot easier to understand the process of an airport in this country as I am used to it unlike say Paris, and the customer service stateside is able to understand what I want better as an American traveler when I'm stateside.
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kavok
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon May 27, 2019 11:06 am

fedex1 wrote:
So the JFK - BOM flight on Delta might actually hurt the IND - CDG flight?



Think about this for a second... Obviously a good percentage of the JFK-BOM flight will likely be made up of connecting pax, but that connecting pax base is going to be made up of connections from the entire DL network... not just from IND.

So how many of the say 200 hundred connecting pax on JFK-BOM will have originated from IND? 10% seems way too high, given the flight is pulling from the entire DL network. Even 5% seems high, but for argument sake let’s just say 5% of the JFK-BOM flight’s connecting passengers originated in IND. 5% of 200 is 10 people.

Again, I think 10 is still way on the high end, but worst case that is 10 pax are opting to not take IND-CDG, or IND-DTW-CDG, or IND-ATL-CDG, etc. and taking JFK-BOM. So even then, it is probably not even pulling 10 pax off the IND-CDG flight, as some of that exaggerated figure of 10 pax would have be taking a connection in DTW, ATL, iot elsewhere.

Point being, JFK-BOM should have virtually no impact on IND-CDG.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon May 27, 2019 11:41 am

Runway28L wrote:
Did Jet Airways code share on IND-CDG last summer, or at all for that matter?


Yes, I believe so

VTORD wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
However there is some degree of exposure with so many of the passengers on IND-CDG connecting to India, and DL opening a JFK-BOM flight later this year. If they can keep Cummins, Infosys, e.t.c flying through CDG it should be fine.


fedex1 wrote:
So the JFK - BOM flight on Delta might actually hurt the IND - CDG flight?


I think DL will aim the JFK flight quite heavily at the local O&D market to go head-to-head with UA and steal some of the ME3 traffic back. With AI exiting the route, DL has more piece of the pie. IMHO, IND-JFK-BOM for e.g., doesn't really offer a big advantage over IND-CDG-BOM schedule/time-wise. So the negative exposure should really be minimal. I think.


If you are buying one-way(which I know fewer people do), IND-JFK-BOM is significantly cheaper than IND-CDG-BOM. I have noticed a few days where IND-JFK-BOM is also cheaper, but generally they are the same price. If that begins to change it would have some negative impacts on the CDG flight

stl07 wrote:
stlgph wrote:
Delta @ JFK = same terminal connections, in english.

Yup. CDG is a pain. JFK, not so much.


Fargo wrote:
CDG isn’t great for connections, but if one has the option to bypass the stateside hubs, one should take advantage of that.


Okay now, CDG gets a really bad rap, it is a perfectly fine airport. You sometimes have to take a bus which is not that bad. I remember last year I flew IND-CDG-TXL, with a 50 minute-1 hour connection, the IND-CDG flight landed late and I still reached the connecting gate before boarding started.

Obviously, not everyone is going to have that same experience, but for the most part people overhype how bad CDG is.

kavok wrote:
fedex1 wrote:
So the JFK - BOM flight on Delta might actually hurt the IND - CDG flight?


Think about this for a second... Obviously a good percentage of the JFK-BOM flight will likely be made up of connecting pax, but that connecting pax base is going to be made up of connections from the entire DL network... not just from IND.

So how many of the say 200 hundred connecting pax on JFK-BOM will have originated from IND? 10% seems way too high, given the flight is pulling from the entire DL network. Even 5% seems high, but for argument sake let’s just say 5% of the JFK-BOM flight’s connecting passengers originated in IND. 5% of 200 is 10 people.

Again, I think 10 is still way on the high end, but worst case that is 10 pax are opting to not take IND-CDG, or IND-DTW-CDG, or IND-ATL-CDG, etc. and taking JFK-BOM. So even then, it is probably not even pulling 10 pax off the IND-CDG flight, as some of that exaggerated figure of 10 pax would have be taking a connection in DTW, ATL, iot elsewhere.

Point being, JFK-BOM should have virtually no impact on IND-CDG.


Fair enough, but it also depends on what type of passenger is choosing to connect in JFK: are those F pax, Y+ pax, or Y pax? If 8 or 10 F pax chose to connect in JFK rather than CDG that would be much worse than 8-10 Y passengers

"For Indianapolis passengers who use the Paris flight as a connector, the Indian cities of Delhi, Mumbai and Bangalore and the Italian cities of Florence and Rome are top destinations, Bishop said."

Just to be clear though, as you see in the quote above BOM is one of the most important connection cities for the IND-CDG flight
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon May 27, 2019 5:08 pm

Good news, UA IND-SFO is going 2x B739 in June, while it doesn't cancel out WN's trim of IND-OAK it should help.

Now if DL would do these things during the summer I think they would be set: Go 2x to SLC or upguage to a B739/A321, upguage IND-SEA to a B738, add in IND-MIA during the summer, and IND-MCO upguaged to A320
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Jake1993P
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon May 27, 2019 6:06 pm

Booked on the IND-CDG flight in July! Was cheaper to drive to IND and fly out then fly out of ATL, plus gives me a few days with family on either side of the trip.
 
VTORD
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon May 27, 2019 8:32 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
If you are buying one-way(which I know fewer people do), IND-JFK-BOM is significantly cheaper than IND-CDG-BOM. I have noticed a few days where IND-JFK-BOM is also cheaper, but generally they are the same price. If that begins to change it would have some negative impacts on the CDG flight

Fair point but.....I am willing to bet 1-way travel is more in the BOM-IND direction than IND-BOM direction. Much more. You seem to have access to the numbers out of IND so if you have something that is contrary, please do share. Also I tried to price out some itineraries IND-BOM (12/22 - 3rd week Jan), it seems on Sundays, there is no morning flight JFK-IND (at least doesn't show up on DL booking engine). Another reason why someone would stick to IND-CDG over JFK?

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