MIflyer12
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:38 pm

FWAERJ wrote:

True, FWA is a small market. But I wouldn’t exactly call it “very small” as it’s on track for a fourth year in a row of record traffic and could easily break 400,000 enplanements soon. Ditto for SBN, which has seen major traffic increases with the much-requested return of AA lifting the boat for all carriers.


Dude, that's the infamous 'growth from a small base' conceit. RITA BTS data show SBN ranking at #141 of U.S. airports in domestic departure passenger count, and FWA at #144. In the context of the national air network they are utterly trivial. IND has 12x the traffic and ranks #46 - far from big itself.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:52 pm

https://www.ind.com/about/media/media-r ... -j-d-power

"Indy Airport Named Best in North America According to J.D. Power"
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 3:01 pm

Bluegrass60 wrote:
Boyd Group is the originator of the idea of TATL to SDF - part of its' premise is 'drive-ability'[email protected] people are within 2 hours of SDF.

BA might decide SDF-LHR (or other EU carriers to their respective hub)). IND, CVG, DAY, LEX, EVV are easy drives to SDF....and BA would not have DL's CDG flights to compete with at IND or CVG. Whatever carrier might decide to do this "could" work out an arrangement with UPS for added cargo capacity between Worldport(SDF) and the EU....and that could ice the deal.

SDF is growing 11% ytd on top of 11% growth in 2018. There are multiple strategies to continue growing the economy and the population including: Healthcare, Logistics, Business Services and Tourism. Specific to Tourism...to grow from 16M to 25M by 2030.

SDF about to embark on $200M+ SDF Next....which includes FIS and an international gate(s).

Am sure will get flamed as some on this thread think SDF/Louisville to not be competitive. It's great for ya'll to keep thinking that!


SDF lacks service to JFK, BOS, YYZ, SFO, SEA, SAN, AUS, RDU, e.t.c

Until there is service to most of these, it's not even worth discussing
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Bluegrass60
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:14 pm

Midwestindy response is "predictable": "SDF lacks service to JFK, BOS, YYZ, SFO, SEA, SAN, AUS, RDU, e.t.c Until there is service to most of these, it's not even worth discussing"

#1. Boyd suggest SDF TATL in 3-5 yrs.
#2. SDF is working on BOS, YYZ, SFO, SEA and RDU. That said, it is old school thinking....and irrelevant to SDF-LHR potential.
#3. Not worth discussing is same as not considering SDF/Louisville a competitor to big ol IND. LOL!
 
SDFguy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:39 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
https://www.ind.com/about/media/media-releases/indy-airport-named-best-in-north-america-according-to-j-d-power

"Indy Airport Named Best in North America According to J.D. Power"


What an extremely misleading headline. Indy was named the best among MEDIUM sized airports. This excludes the airports with more than 10 million passengers.
 
SDFguy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:42 pm

Bluegrass60 wrote:
Midwestindy response is "predictable": "SDF lacks service to JFK, BOS, YYZ, SFO, SEA, SAN, AUS, RDU, e.t.c Until there is service to most of these, it's not even worth discussing"

#1. Boyd suggest SDF TATL in 3-5 yrs.
#2. SDF is working on BOS, YYZ, SFO, SEA and RDU. That said, it is old school thinking....and irrelevant to SDF-LHR potential.
#3. Not worth discussing is same as not considering SDF/Louisville a competitor to big ol IND. LOL!


BA seasonal service to SDF would not surprise me at all for all the reasons you mentioned.
 
flyguy89
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:53 pm

Bluegrass60 wrote:
Midwestindy response is "predictable": "SDF lacks service to JFK, BOS, YYZ, SFO, SEA, SAN, AUS, RDU, e.t.c Until there is service to most of these, it's not even worth discussing"

#1. Boyd suggest SDF TATL in 3-5 yrs.

So? You do realize Boyd has a terrible track record of predicting air service, right?
 
flyguy89
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:56 pm

Bluegrass60 wrote:
#3. Not worth discussing is same as not considering SDF/Louisville a competitor to big ol IND. LOL!

No one cares, dude. They're all serving their respective local service areas, and if SDF is a competitor to IND, then the reverse is also true and is thus a wash.
 
jplatts
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:22 pm

FWAERJ wrote:
And I will say this: the international arrivals facility may have been built a little too small. If MEX, LHR, and NRT (the last one is important because of the Japanese auto industry being an important part of Indiana manufacturing) are added, more international gates will be needed and fast.


DL is going to be pulling out of NRT and moving its NRT flights over to HND in March 2020.

JL is more likely to add IND-TYO than NH is since JL has nonstop service to more non-AA hub cities in the U.S. than NH does to non-UA hub cities in the U.S.

JL currently serves the following non-AA hub cities in the U.S. nonstop from TYO: BOS, GUM, HNL, KOA, SFO, SAN, SEA
NH currently serves the following non-UA hub cities in the U.S. nonstop from TYO: HNL, SEA

Eli Lilly also has its Japanese headquarters in Kobe, and it is currently difficult to connect to KIX, ITM, or UBE from IND as the current connecting options between IND and KIX/ITM/UBE involve either long layovers in at least one direction or at least 2 connections. JL adding IND-TYO nonstop service would allow easier connections to the Keihanshin (Kyoto/Osaka/Kobe) region from IND.

JL would also be able to offer 1-stop connecting service to NGO (which is near Toyota's world headquarters in Toyota City, Japan) from IND through TYO if JL adds IND-TYO nonstop service.

In addition to connections to Greater Nagoya (where Toyota's world headquarters is located) and Keihanshin (where Eli Lilly's Japanese headquarters is located), JL would also be able to offer 1-stop connecting service to other cities in East Asia and Southeast Asia from IND through TYO if JL adds IND-TYO nonstop service.
 
bobsmith99
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:34 pm

jplatts wrote:
FWAERJ wrote:
And I will say this: the international arrivals facility may have been built a little too small. If MEX, LHR, and NRT (the last one is important because of the Japanese auto industry being an important part of Indiana manufacturing) are added, more international gates will be needed and fast.


DL is going to be pulling out of NRT and moving its NRT flights over to HND in March 2020.

JL is more likely to add IND-TYO than NH is since JL has nonstop service to more non-AA hub cities in the U.S. than NH does to non-UA hub cities in the U.S.

JL currently serves the following non-AA hub cities in the U.S. nonstop from TYO: BOS, GUM, HNL, KOA, SFO, SAN, SEA
NH currently serves the following non-UA hub cities in the U.S. nonstop from TYO: HNL, SEA

Eli Lilly also has its Japanese headquarters in Kobe, and it is currently difficult to connect to KIX, ITM, or UBE from IND as the current connecting options between IND and KIX/ITM/UBE involve either long layovers in at least one direction or at least 2 connections. JL adding IND-TYO nonstop service would allow easier connections to the Keihanshin (Kyoto/Osaka/Kobe) region from IND.

JL would also be able to offer 1-stop connecting service to NGO (which is near Toyota's world headquarters in Toyota City, Japan) from IND through TYO if JL adds IND-TYO nonstop service.

In addition to connections to Greater Nagoya (where Toyota's world headquarters is located) and Keihanshin (where Eli Lilly's Japanese headquarters is located), JL would also be able to offer 1-stop connecting service to other cities in East Asia and Southeast Asia from IND through TYO if JL adds IND-TYO nonstop service.


I get that there are some corporate connections to Japan but I think it is highly unlikely that JL will add a nonstop to Japan in the next few years. It would be unprecedented for them to serve a market Indy's size (and distance from Japan) in the U.S. (KOA and HNL are special exceptions). Indy will likely get another TATL flight before one to Asia.
 
Bluegrass60
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:50 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
Bluegrass60 wrote:
Midwestindy response is "predictable": "SDF lacks service to JFK, BOS, YYZ, SFO, SEA, SAN, AUS, RDU, e.t.c Until there is service to most of these, it's not even worth discussing"

#1. Boyd suggest SDF TATL in 3-5 yrs.

So? You do realize Boyd has a terrible track record of predicting air service, right?




Have no clue what Boyd's track record might be......what I do know is that airlines, airports, airframe manufacturers, etc. pay Boyd money for his services and have been doing so for 30 yrs. Do any of those entities pay you or anyone on this board for your "in-depth knowledge"......cough cough cough.....I didn't think so LOL
 
Bluegrass60
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:53 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
Bluegrass60 wrote:
#3. Not worth discussing is same as not considering SDF/Louisville a competitor to big ol IND. LOL!

No one cares, dude. They're all serving their respective local service areas, and if SDF is a competitor to IND, then the reverse is also true and is thus a wash.


Dude, Midwestindy does not believe IND is a peer airport to SDF. I beg to differ. End of story
 
ThaneC
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:07 pm

SDF and IND are definitely very similar. Both have big cargo operations (advantage to SDF with UPS); IND has a better passenger operation. Overall IND has it all over SDF as Louisville is much smaller market. SDF & MEM are actually the closest peers.
 
Jshank83
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:35 pm

I have no clue why SDF always works its way into the IND chat. Kentucky has their own thread. Maybe people can stay in their respective chats so others aren't having to always weed thru the post. No one is going to convince other side differently so you might as well drop it.
 
flyguy89
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:53 pm

Bluegrass60 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
Bluegrass60 wrote:
Midwestindy response is "predictable": "SDF lacks service to JFK, BOS, YYZ, SFO, SEA, SAN, AUS, RDU, e.t.c Until there is service to most of these, it's not even worth discussing"

#1. Boyd suggest SDF TATL in 3-5 yrs.

So? You do realize Boyd has a terrible track record of predicting air service, right?




Have no clue what Boyd's track record might be......what I do know is that airlines, airports, airframe manufacturers, etc. pay Boyd money for his services and have been doing so for 30 yrs. Do any of those entities pay you or anyone on this board for your "in-depth knowledge"......cough cough cough.....I didn't think so LOL

Boyd provides a lot of services and airlines employ their own route planning teams, so unless you have a seat at the table with these airlines, you might as well be shooting from the hip. So I wouldn't be throwing around a white paper from a consulting firm like it carries any significant weight.

Bluegrass60 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
Bluegrass60 wrote:
#3. Not worth discussing is same as not considering SDF/Louisville a competitor to big ol IND. LOL!

No one cares, dude. They're all serving their respective local service areas, and if SDF is a competitor to IND, then the reverse is also true and is thus a wash.


Dude, Midwestindy does not believe IND is a peer airport to SDF. I beg to differ. End of story

Ah, but peer and competitor are not the same things. They may be competitors with one another on the margins, but sorry, IND is not a "peer" airport to SDF...at least not on the passenger side. An airport that has more than double the amount of pax traffic as you is not a peer. By your logic, airports like CVG, IND and CMH would be peers to FLL, PHL MSP and DTW...which is obviously not the case.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:16 am

Jshank83 wrote:
I have no clue why SDF always works its way into the IND chat. Kentucky has their own thread. Maybe people can stay in their respective chats so others aren't having to always weed thru the post. No one is going to convince other side differently so you might as well drop it.


Amen

bobsmith99 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
FWAERJ wrote:
And I will say this: the international arrivals facility may have been built a little too small. If MEX, LHR, and NRT (the last one is important because of the Japanese auto industry being an important part of Indiana manufacturing) are added, more international gates will be needed and fast.


DL is going to be pulling out of NRT and moving its NRT flights over to HND in March 2020.

JL is more likely to add IND-TYO than NH is since JL has nonstop service to more non-AA hub cities in the U.S. than NH does to non-UA hub cities in the U.S.

JL currently serves the following non-AA hub cities in the U.S. nonstop from TYO: BOS, GUM, HNL, KOA, SFO, SAN, SEA
NH currently serves the following non-UA hub cities in the U.S. nonstop from TYO: HNL, SEA

Eli Lilly also has its Japanese headquarters in Kobe, and it is currently difficult to connect to KIX, ITM, or UBE from IND as the current connecting options between IND and KIX/ITM/UBE involve either long layovers in at least one direction or at least 2 connections. JL adding IND-TYO nonstop service would allow easier connections to the Keihanshin (Kyoto/Osaka/Kobe) region from IND.

JL would also be able to offer 1-stop connecting service to NGO (which is near Toyota's world headquarters in Toyota City, Japan) from IND through TYO if JL adds IND-TYO nonstop service.

In addition to connections to Greater Nagoya (where Toyota's world headquarters is located) and Keihanshin (where Eli Lilly's Japanese headquarters is located), JL would also be able to offer 1-stop connecting service to other cities in East Asia and Southeast Asia from IND through TYO if JL adds IND-TYO nonstop service.


I get that there are some corporate connections to Japan but I think it is highly unlikely that JL will add a nonstop to Japan in the next few years. It would be unprecedented for them to serve a market Indy's size (and distance from Japan) in the U.S. (KOA and HNL are special exceptions). Indy will likely get another TATL flight before one to Asia.


Yeah it won't be easy, Asia is a tougher animal, accounting for stage length, gov't approvals, slots for certain routes, e.t.c

That being said, I don't think it is out of the realm of possibility.

I think AUS will get TPAC service first, probably within the next few years. Once AUS gets TPAC, then I believe RDU, IND, BNA, e.t.c will follow relatively soon after. I think IND's case is aided by the fact that the State gov't is willing to pony up serious cash, and the governor of the state is heavily invested in attracting foreign investment.
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Bluegrass60
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:21 pm

ThaneC: "SDF and IND are definitely very similar. Both have big cargo operations (advantage to SDF with UPS); IND has a better passenger operation. Overall IND has it all over SDF as Louisville is much smaller market. SDF & MEM are actually the closest peers."

IND has more passengers and more departures/routes than SDF

IND CSA = 2.4M. SDF CSA = 1.5M MEM CSA = 1.3M

FlyGuy89: "Ah, but peer and competitor are not the same things. They may be competitors with one another on the margins, but sorry, IND is not a "peer" airport to SDF...at least not on the passenger side. An airport that has more than double the amount of pax traffic as you is not a peer. By your logic, airports like CVG, IND and CMH would be peers to FLL, PHL MSP and DTW...which is obviously not the case."

Based on Annual PAX alone I agree that SDF's 4M+ PAX is not a peer to IND, CVG, CMH, PIT 7-8M PAX. Using same criteria...none of the cited airports are peers with BNA's 18M PAX
SDF and MEM are peer airports based on PAX

Using your "peer definition" for air cargo.... MEM handles 2x the Cargo of SDF. So MEM is a peer to ANC for cargo. SDF and ORD are peers for cargo. CVG and IND are peers for cargo.

Peer and Competitor are different things. SDF is a competitor to all the regional airports within a 2 hour radius....just as IND, CVG etc are. People will select an airport for a bunch of reasons including ease-of-access; fare; airline; type of aircraft; routing; parking; etc etc Specific to IND...the Indiana burbs of Louisville are most likely to select IND as an alternative airport; the northeastern burbs are most likely to select CVG as an alternative airport; the southern burbs are most likely to select BNA as an alternative airport. All of those are generalities and am sure there are exceptions. (LEX also attracts some Louisville catchment).

flyguy89: Boyd provides a lot of services and airlines employ their own route planning teams, so unless you have a seat at the table with these airlines, you might as well be shooting from the hip. So I wouldn't be throwing around a white paper from a consulting firm like it carries any significant weight.

- I am likely mistaken....but highly doubt that any of you posters have a seat at the table with an airline or an airline consultant. Boyd's whitepapers carry far more weight than the majority of posts on airliners.net

"Jshank83 wrote: I have no clue why SDF always works its way into the IND chat. Kentucky has their own thread. Maybe people can stay in their respective chats so others aren't having to always weed thru the post. No one is going to convince other side differently so you might as well drop it"

I was not aware of rules that restrict posters to their particular geography....especially a geography that has Major and not so major airports in close proximity AND that 4 of them have Major Air Cargo Operations. In my experience, out-of-geography posters sometimes can provide perspective and facts that in-geography cheerleaders forget or are ignorant of.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:50 pm

WN schedule extension came in today

Next March Weekdays appear to be status quo, with the exception of BOS & OAK not being in the schedule

Next March on Saturdays, WN will be operating 47 daily outbound flights (7,200 seats), I believe more than they have ever run at IND.
IND-MCO will be 9x daily on Saturdays, more than every other MCO route other than BNA/MDW/BWI-MCO
IND-PHX/FLL/BWI/DAL also each get an additional Saturday flight
Last March, on Saturdays they were at 42 daily outbounds with around (6,200 seats)

Next March on Sundays, WN will be operating 43 daily outbound flights, compared to 40 daily flights last March
IND-AUS/OAK are gone, and IND-HOU loses a frequency
IND-LAX goes 2x daily, and IND-MCI/BWI/RSW/MCO/TPA gain a frequency

Checking out Saturdays, it looks like there will be tons of options
IND-Orlando will have 13 flights (9xWN, 2xG4, 1xNK, 1xDL), about the same frequency as BOS/MSP/DTW-MCO
IND-Tampa/Sarasota 10 flights (6xWN, 3xG4, 1xNK)
IND-Fort Myers 10 flights (6xWN, 2xG4, 1xNK, 1xDL)
IND-FLL/MIA 9 flights (4xWN, 3xAA, 2xG4)
IND-Phoenix 6 flights (4xWN, 2xAA)
IND-Denver 6 flights (3xWN, 3xUA)
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flymco753
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:13 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
IND-Orlando will have 13 flights (9xWN, 2xG4, 1xNK, 1xDL), about the same frequency as BOS/MSP/DTW-MCO
While the frequencies are the same, the 3 stations mentioned have several high density aircraft flying on the route between all of the 753s and A321s.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:20 am

Phase 1 of new stores are up, walked by the TUMI store on Saturday

Airport is hiring a new Air Service Development Coordinator, I am assuming this means the current one is leaving or is being promoted?
https://indianapolisairport.csod.com/at ... e=1&id=269

"Air Service Development Coordinator

GENERAL SUMMARY/RESPONSIBILITES
The Air Service Development Coordinator will support the Air Service and Concessions team on the larger Commercial Enterprise department by supporting airline meeting preparation and follow up, creating and maintaining the airline microsite with Indianapolis and Indiana economic and airport updates, as outline by the Airline Communications Strategy, support internal and external airline data analysis, and support the Manager of Air Service Development to prepare for and execute on airline meetings at conferences and follow up. The Coordinator/Analyst will also be responsible for maintaining current airline incentive estimates and recommending credit allocations as allowed by the IAA Airline Incentive Plan.

ESSENTIAL FUNCTIONS
Event Identification & Facilitation
Support in market trips as outlined by Airline Communications Plan
Coordinate meetings with business and/or tourism community during visit
Confirm accommodations, transportation, gifts, and follow up
Support airline headquarter visits
Track, organize and plan inaugural and anniversary flights activations
Work with city pair airport to promote IND at destination from pair city

Develop Airline Communications Plan
Airline microsite including:
tailored route information, important Indy announcements, calendar of major upcoming Indy events, Indy articles relating to markets airlines serve, current business case data, demographics, IND traffic information, airline incentive plan, etc.
Microsite will allow IAA to track who is looking at the site, when and what info they pull from the site
Microsite will require up-front costs to establish and dedicated hours to upkeep and update each month

Community engagement strategy
Support internal and external data requests using Diio Mi and the IAA Monthly Airline Activity Report
Internal requests such as airline activity report summaries, quarterly air service reports, finance reporting requests, miscellaneous air service analysis, etc
External requests such from Visit Indy, IEDC, Indy Chamber, ASQ flight data, etc.
Identify and communicate impactful airline changes weekly to internal and external partners
EX: Max 8 aircraft groundings affect all airlines and how IND is individually affected
Conference Execution
Support high quality Hosted Airline Program at Routes Americas 2020 in Indy
Build individual presentations airline meetings including tailored market data and business case analysis
Organize key conference background information
Work with the Indy Chamber/IEDC to source the latest economic development news
Work with Visit Indy to update the calendar or events coming to Indy
Coordinate and execute thorough conference follow up

Incentive Upkeep
Track, calculate and message airline incentive credits and accruals
Verify airline landings quarterly
Notify billing team of incentive credits due
Work with airlines to implement marketing dollars to effectively support new route within the first few months "
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:22 pm

Looks like no frequency changes on IND-CDG for Jan-May, I was hoping for daily service throughout all of May, but it looks like that isn't going to happen

August-September IND-CDG flights have been going out much better than the year prior, so potentially daily IND-CDG could be extended to September next year
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IndyHoosier
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:35 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Looks like no frequency changes on IND-CDG for Jan-May, I was hoping for daily service throughout all of May, but it looks like that isn't going to happen

August-September IND-CDG flights have been going out much better than the year prior, so potentially daily IND-CDG could be extended to September next year


When does the subsidy end? Is it May of 2020?
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:45 pm

IndyHoosier wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Looks like no frequency changes on IND-CDG for Jan-May, I was hoping for daily service throughout all of May, but it looks like that isn't going to happen

August-September IND-CDG flights have been going out much better than the year prior, so potentially daily IND-CDG could be extended to September next year


When does the subsidy end? Is it May of 2020?


Contract ends May 31st, although DL will likely stop getting money some time in March or April, given that incentives increase if passenger counts are high and the incentives are capped at 2 million this year

https://secure.in.gov/apps/iedc/transpa ... 5056b34823
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:00 am

Lots of interesting information here:
http://prospectus.bondtraderpro.com/$IN0100BG2.PDF
Image
Image
Image
Signatory airlines (UA, WN, DL, AA, G4, F9) lease 24 of 39 available aircraft gates,

Talking about FedEx:
"The expansion will increase their total footprint to around 172 acres and add 47 new gate positions to accommodate a total of 110 aircraft"

2019-2024 Projects will cost $453 Million dollars:
Image
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:05 pm

Mario Rodriguez will be on Inside Indiana Business this weekend.

https://twitter.com/IIB/status/1179893933180178432
Indianapolis Airport Spotter

Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Instagram, Flickr
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:54 pm

Q2 2019 numbers are out:
Largest Unserved/Underserved Markets-Current Service:
IND-BOS-336 PDEW-All RJ
IND-SAN-207 PDEW-No service until mid-way through June
IND-AUS-166 PDEW-2x weekly from G4, or 1x weekly
IND-PDX-109 PDEW-No Service
IND-JAX-109 PDEW-2x weekly G4
IND-MSY-104 PDEW-2x weekly G4
IND-SAT-100 PDEW-No Service
IND-CHS-80 PDEW-2x weekly G4
IND-SAV-75 PDEW-2x weekly G4
IND-SNA-69 PDEW-No Service
IND-SMF-66 PDEW-No Service
IND-BDL-62 PDEW-No Service
IND-SJC-51 PDEW-No Service
IND-ORF-49 PDEW-No Service
IND-HNL-48 PDEW-No Service
IND-SJU-46 PDEW-No Service
IND-RIC-44 PDEW-No Service
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ATAIndy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:43 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Q2 2019 numbers are out:
Largest Unserved/Underserved Markets-Current Service:
IND-BOS-336 PDEW-All RJ
IND-SAN-207 PDEW-No service until mid-way through June
IND-AUS-166 PDEW-2x weekly from G4, or 1x weekly
IND-SAT-100 PDEW-No Service


BOS seems like a good candidate for at least 1x daily on DL mainline. BNA has 11x daily on a mix of B6, WN, and DL
The AUS and SAN numbers have been strong for... awhile now. Yet no one is stepping up to serve the market still and WN has been bearish on IND as of late. Never forget NW used to fly AUS on CRJs.
SAT I think would be another good candidate for 2x weekly from G4, after all they are trying Tucson.
Boiler up!
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:50 pm

ATAIndy wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Q2 2019 numbers are out:
Largest Unserved/Underserved Markets-Current Service:
IND-BOS-336 PDEW-All RJ
IND-SAN-207 PDEW-No service until mid-way through June
IND-AUS-166 PDEW-2x weekly from G4, or 1x weekly
IND-SAT-100 PDEW-No Service


BOS seems like a good candidate for at least 1x daily on DL mainline. BNA has 11x daily on a mix of B6, WN, and DL
The AUS and SAN numbers have been strong for... awhile now. Yet no one is stepping up to serve the market still and WN has been bearish on IND as of late. Never forget NW used to fly AUS on CRJs.
SAT I think would be another good candidate for 2x weekly from G4, after all they are trying Tucson.


If that Focus city expansion ever happens with AUS and DL, I am pretty confident that DL will add IND-AUS. PDEW numbers in 2018 went well above 200 when F9 added 2x weekly service, if an airline were to try daily service PDEW would likely be 250 PDEW.

IND just needs the "right" airline to serve SAN, AUS, MSY, PDX, SAT, and maybe even JAX year-round daily. I once thought it would be WN, maybe even DL, but it is looking more like it will be a mix of a lot of different airlines.

The Airlines just aren't getting pushed too hard to add more service outside of Florida, even WN is adding more capacity with up to nearly 50 departures in the spring, but most of it is going to Florida. And with demand growing without much additional capacity, fares are going up which is likely making PDEW numbers look lower than they probably should be:

DL's Q2 fares on IND-SLC/DTW/BOS/MSP/LAX/LGA all rose by at least $25-$30 in 2019
Same with AA to DCA/LGA/MIA/CLT/PHX/PHL

UA's Q2 fares on IND-SFO/EWR/ORD all rose by at least $50 (thank WN for that)

Heck even fares on IND-MCI rose by $26

It'll be interesting to see when the tipping point happens
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indygs
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:34 pm

With BOS at the top of that chart and WN gone, I wonder if B6 might think of launching ops between IND-BOS. The thing is, they'll need to have a bit more in store to counter what would be a heavy-handed DL trying to protect their turf, but I wonder if they could be successful coming to IND with AUS, SAN, BOS and JFK (and perhaps an FL market?)
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:27 pm

DL changes this morning
IND-BOS switching to all E175 Jan-Early March
IND-MSP will go 2x mainline on Sundays(sometimes Saturdays) and 1x mainline during the week, Jan-Early March, up from no mainline last year
IND-ATL out of 9 frequencies, 4 switch to B739 & 4 switch to B717s, leaving 1 daily MD88, Jan-Early March
IND-RDU gets a CR9, Mid-March-Early April, this will likely be extended as DL has said they don't want 50 seaters in IND
IND-LGA has the 6am flight pushed back until 7am, meaning only way to land in NYC before 9:15am is to take UA
A few swaps due to regional changes as well from Jan-Early March, Republic picks up a JFK flight, and Skywest pick up some of the MSP/DTW flights

On the UA front:
As mentioned before IND-IAH will be all E170/E175 in January
IND-DEN appears to be keeping mainline through January, last year January had no mainline
IND-ORD only has 3/9 flights on 50 seaters in January....progress
IND-EWR/IAH/ORD all gain a frequency YOY in January

On the F9 front:
For January and February IND-DEN/LAS gain a weekly frequency, and IND-DEN is slated to go daily a month earlier this year

NK will RON an aircraft in IND starting next year

AA info won't come in until late tonight

Should see nice growth to start off 2020

zackary747 wrote:
Mario Rodriguez will be on Inside Indiana Business this weekend.

https://twitter.com/IIB/status/1179893933180178432


He didn't end up saying much, just "We are looking into Europe and Latin America, we are trying to follow where the trends are headed"

indygs wrote:
With BOS at the top of that chart and WN gone, I wonder if B6 might think of launching ops between IND-BOS. The thing is, they'll need to have a bit more in store to counter what would be a heavy-handed DL trying to protect their turf, but I wonder if they could be successful coming to IND with AUS, SAN, BOS and JFK (and perhaps an FL market?)


It would be tight, IND is one of the most profitable routes DL has from BOS, so DL will defend it hard and will probably add mainline in the near future.

I was hoping that during the week or so after WN dropped IND-BOS, B6 was going to slide in and start 2-3x daily service, but it didn't end up happening.

There is a solid chance that B6 will add it once they start European flights, if they start it now they will have to really on mostly O&D. B6 is so conservative though that I doubt they would add anything else other than BOS...
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:03 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKffY2rmj2U

Link to interview on Inside Indiana Business:

According to the Director, there is over $2 billion worth of construction currently occurring at the airport

----------
Unrelated, AA is increasing IND-MIA to 4x daily from Dec 18th-Jan 5th, meanwhile DL's IND-MIA flight is currently M.I.A, missing in action
IND may have also missed out for S20 on AS or DL going 2x daily on IND-SEA, may have to wait for S21 or see if DL upguages to a B738 this summer
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ibthebigd
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:06 pm

I am still baffled IND hasn't found a Hotel to connect to the airport

It's embarrassing the hotel offering around the airport compared to similar sized airports. Embassy Suites is about the nicest option.

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COSPN
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:15 pm

The new Holiday inn Ameriplex is the closest about 2 miles... the ones at the old airport are ok and reasonably priced IND has about 900 rooms within 5 miles of the airport so I don’t see why anyone would want to add one on “overpriced” airport property ..

For you plane spotters LOT will run a one time 787 charter late tonite 10/7 0200 IND-NAP too bad it will be dark as the flight is after midnight
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:31 pm

ibthebigd wrote:
I am still baffled IND hasn't found a Hotel to connect to the airport

It's embarrassing the hotel offering around the airport compared to similar sized airports. Embassy Suites is about the nicest option.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Would the parking garage expansion delay a new hotel? Considering the plot of land for the hotel is connected to the parking garage

COSPN wrote:
For you plane spotters LOT will run a one time 787 charter late tonite 10/7 0200 IND-NAP too bad it will be dark as the flight is after midnight


What is the charter for?
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COSPN
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:38 pm

Something to do with swimming I will find out more when they show up
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:18 am

Midwestindy wrote:
indygs wrote:
With BOS at the top of that chart and WN gone, I wonder if B6 might think of launching ops between IND-BOS. The thing is, they'll need to have a bit more in store to counter what would be a heavy-handed DL trying to protect their turf, but I wonder if they could be successful coming to IND with AUS, SAN, BOS and JFK (and perhaps an FL market?)


It would be tight, IND is one of the most profitable routes DL has from BOS, so DL will defend it hard and will probably add mainline in the near future.

I was hoping that during the week or so after WN dropped IND-BOS, B6 was going to slide in and start 2-3x daily service, but it didn't end up happening.

There is a solid chance that B6 will add it once they start European flights, if they start it now they will have to really on mostly O&D. B6 is so conservative though that I doubt they would add anything else other than BOS...

I think there might be some overestimation of DL's point of sale at BOS here on a.net. If you look at DL's performance on BOS-RDU/BNA, both DL focus cities, there simply isn't any evidence that in the long run, B6 won't be able to capture the majority of BOS point of sale. Otherwise, there is simply no reason that B6 would get higher yield on E90 vs DL mainline on a route like BOS-RDU. DL defending hard is not the deterrent here.

B6 has had some serious delivery issues with A321NEO this year which has slowed down a lot of growth. They've opted so far to add 2 more Latin American station for 2020 (PTP, GEO) from JFK and have not added any new markets out of BOS since probably February. So it seems like a new middle of the country market out of BOS will be announced before the end of the year. Just not too clear who will that be.
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:17 pm

http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/st ... al-airport

"The airport Monday was named the Best Airport in the United States by readers of Condé Nast Traveler for the sixth consecutive year."

"The designation comes just weeks after J.D. Power named the airport the best medium-sized airport in North America."

tphuang wrote:
B6 has had some serious delivery issues with A321NEO this year which has slowed down a lot of growth. They've opted so far to add 2 more Latin American station for 2020 (PTP, GEO) from JFK and have not added any new markets out of BOS since probably February. So it seems like a new middle of the country market out of BOS will be announced before the end of the year. Just not too clear who will that be.


My gut tells me its not going to happen until 2021, although B6 usually announces markets in mid-October, so the wait shouldn't be too long if they do end up announcing IND.
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:06 am

https://www.businesstravelnews.com/Corp ... l-100/2019

BTN's 2019 Corporate Travel 100, a ranking of the corporate travel programs that spent the most on U.S.-booked air travel in 2018

Eli Lilly moved up to (#68) in the US
Roche (#24) NA HQ is in Indianapolis
FedEx (#26) Second largest operation in Indianapolis
DowDupont (#50) Global Business Center in Indianapolis
Salesforce (#61) Second largest office in Indianapolis

Amazon (#12), JP Morgan Chase (#19), UTC (#25), Raytheon (#31), UnitedHealth Group (#41), Pepsico (#63), Caterpillar (#85), & Boston Scientific (#97) all employee at least 1000+ in offices/production facilities in the Indianapolis Area
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fedex1
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:47 am

Wow, didn’t realize Indianapolis was Salesforce second largest location? Awesome! I love the tower downtown!
 
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:50 am

fedex1 wrote:
Wow, didn’t realize Indianapolis was Salesforce second largest location? Awesome! I love the tower downtown!


Yes, Salesforce Indy is the second largest Salesforce location in the world. Their largest one is in San Francisco.
Indianapolis Airport Spotter

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fedex1
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:51 am

I knew San Francisco for sure! Great !!! Thank you for the info as always !
 
Rocketman1972
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:30 am

Not to be a downer, but Salesforce is building a massive corporate center in Chicago (about 5000 planned, is what I read) so I fear that will mean some loss for Indy. Midwest HQ to Chicago?
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:47 am

Rocketman1972 wrote:
Not to be a downer, but Salesforce is building a massive corporate center in Chicago (about 5000 planned, is what I read) so I fear that will mean some loss for Indy. Midwest HQ to Chicago?


https://www.salesforce.com/blog/2018/11 ... icago.html

Only 1,000 new jobs over next 5 years for Chicago, I did see the 5,000 you were talking about, but I believe those were rumors. Given Salesforce's previous announcement of 800 jobs in Indy, Indianapolis will still be larger after Chicago expansion is complete: https://www.ibj.com/articles/70208-sale ... -5000-jobs

Either way Seattle will eventually become number 2 office for Salesforce with the acquisition of tableau: https://techcrunch.com/2019/06/10/sales ... quisition/
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Rocketman1972
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:48 am

Thanks Midwestindy. As usual you are a wealth of knowledge!
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:59 pm

August numbers: https://d1j6zi7czwjuok.cloudfront.net/i ... 1007160500

DL has become the largest carrier in IND (at least for August and likely September). Unlikely that DL will be able to fully surpass WN, due to WN's enormous schedules during Q1

Domestic: -1.5%
International: +7.7%
Total August change: -1.3%
YTD change: +1.2%

First month in 2 years that WN had under 100,000 enplanements
Meanwhile DL grew enplanements 35% over August 2017

Market Share for August - Change in passengers
DL: 28.4% (+9.4%)
WN: 26.0% (-8.4%)
AA: 21.6% (-2.4%)
UA: 12.4% (-9.2%)
G4: 4.3% (-18.1%)
F9: 2.5% (-12.6%)
NK: 2.5%
AS: 1.3% (-31.7%)
AC: 0.9% (+0.5%)

YTD Market Share:
WN: 29.5%
DL: 25.0%
AA: 21.6%
UA: 11.4%
G4: 6.0%
F9: 2.6%
NK: 1.8%
AS: 1.2%
AC: 0.6%

DL growth still going strong
2019
Aug +9.4%
July +11.7%
June + 7.2%
May +13.0%
Apr +10.9%
Mar +14.6%
Feb +10.7%
Jan +13.3%
Dec +11.5%
Nov +15.2%
Oct +11.3%
Sep +14.8%
Aug +19.5%
Jul +14.9%
Jun +13.1%
May +5.8%
Apr +10.5%
2018

Drop largely due to drop in seats
Image
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Peeklogic
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:47 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Rocketman1972 wrote:
Not to be a downer, but Salesforce is building a massive corporate center in Chicago (about 5000 planned, is what I read) so I fear that will mean some loss for Indy. Midwest HQ to Chicago?


https://www.salesforce.com/blog/2018/11 ... icago.html

Only 1,000 new jobs over next 5 years for Chicago, I did see the 5,000 you were talking about, but I believe those were rumors. Given Salesforce's previous announcement of 800 jobs in Indy, Indianapolis will still be larger after Chicago expansion is complete: https://www.ibj.com/articles/70208-sale ... -5000-jobs

Either way Seattle will eventually become number 2 office for Salesforce with the acquisition of tableau: https://techcrunch.com/2019/06/10/sales ... quisition/


hopefully will be bigger than in SF
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:22 pm

Going to try something out for this data release, in brackets I will put the Load factors for 2018 for some routes of interest to provide a bit more color to any changes YOY. Might look a bit more confusing, but I think it will be more insightful.

2019 April International Load Factors
AC IND-YYZ-65.7%; YYZ-IND-73.7%
DL IND-CDG-56.8%; CDG-IND-68.2%
DL IND-CUN-59.9%; CUN-IND-73.3%
WN IND-CUN-58.9%; CUN-IND-63.8%
Insight: Tough LF month for April, driven heavily by earlier spring break in 2019. Should see the numbers adjust back to normal in 2020.

2019 July Load Factors
AS IND-SEA-95.7%; SEA-IND-95.9% {2018 AS IND-SEA-91.3%; SEA-IND-91.8%}

G4 IND-LAS-96.5%; LAS-IND-96.9% {2018 G4 IND-LAS-91.6%; LAS-IND-91.0%}
G4 IND-FLL-94.6%; FLL-IND-96.6% {2018 G4 IND-FLL-89.9%; FLL-IND-91.6%}
G4 IND-PGD-92.4%; PGD-IND-95.4% {2018 G4 IND-PGD-86.5%; PGD-IND-93.0%}
G4 IND-PIE-93.7%; PIE-IND-95.4%
G4 IND-SFB-91.7%; SFB-IND-94.9%
G4 IND-SRQ-91.9%; SRQ-IND-94.2%
G4 IND-JAX-86.8%; JAX-IND-92.7% {2018 G4 IND-JAX-80.6%; JAX-IND-78.0%}
G4 IND-AUS-88.8%; AUS-IND-89.7% {2018 G4 IND-AUS-70.4%; AUS-IND-78.1%}
G4 IND-CHS-84.9%; CHS-IND-87.4%
G4 IND-SAV-86.2%; SAV-IND-85.5% {2018 G4 IND-SAV-71.5%; SAV-IND-73.8%}
G4 IND-MYR-85.8%; MYR-IND-75.5%
G4 IND-VPS-79.4%; VPS-IND-71.5% {2018 G4 IND-VPS-86.3%; VPS-IND-87.7%}

AA IND-PHX-95.9%; PHX-IND-96.9%
AA IND-LAX-96.0%; LAX-IND-95.4%
AA IND-DFW-94.2%; DFW-IND-94.1% {2018 AA IND-DFW-89.3%; DFW-IND-91.9%}
AA IND-LGA-79.5%; LGA-IND-91.4% (Envoy only)
AA IND-CLT-87.6%; CLT-IND-89.8%
AA IND-JFK-81.6%; JFK-IND-88.4%
AA IND-MIA-81.9%; MIA-IND-88.0%
AA IND-PHL-77.7%; PHL-IND-84.9%
AA IND-ORD-83.1%; ORD-IND-84.8% (Envoy/AA mainline only)
AA IND-DCA-79.6%; DCA-IND-81.7%

DL IND-SEA-96.9%; SEA-IND-96.5% {2018 DL IND-SEA-85.5%; SEA-IND-95.6%}
DL IND-SLC-93.6%; SLC-IND-95.3% {2018 DL IND-SLC-90.1%; SLC-IND-91.0%}
DL IND-LAX-94.8%; LAX-IND-95.1%(B738) {2018 DL IND-LAX-90.1%; LAX-IND-90.2% (A319)}
DL IND-MSP-92.0%; MSP-IND-94.0% {2018 DL IND-MSP-85.7%; MSP-IND-86.5%}
DL IND-ATL-91.0%; ATL-IND-92.9% {2018 DL IND-ATL-83.6%; ATL-IND-84.6%}
DL IND-MCO-91.1%; MCO-IND-92.8% {2018 DL IND-MCO-77.2%; MCO-IND-81.9%}
DL IND-JFK-74.9%; JFK-IND-88.7%
DL IND-RDU-83.6%; RDU-IND-86.4%
DL IND-DTW-80.4%; DTW-IND-85.0% {2018 DL IND-DTW-73.8%; DTW-IND-77.7%}
DL IND-BOS-76.9%; BOS-IND-79.0% {2018 DL IND-BOS-85.9%; BOS-IND-89.8%}
DL IND-RSW-86.0%; RSW-IND-77.3%

F9 IND-LAS-95.6%; LAS-IND-96.7%
F9 IND-MCO-93.6%; MCO-IND-93.0%
F9 IND-DEN-91.8%; DEN-IND-90.1%

WN IND-BOS-94.4%; BOS-IND-95.8% (Sat only)
WN IND-PHX-93.1%; PHX-IND-94.7%
WN IND-LAX-95.3%; LAX-IND-94.7%
WN IND-DEN-92.2%; DEN-IND-93.1%
WN IND-MDW-88.2%; MDW-IND-91.7% {2018 WN IND-MDW-74.0%; MDW-IND-80.1%} (Stronger than usual)
WN IND-SAN-91.5%; SAN-IND-91.5% {2018 WN IND-SAN-89.1%; SAN-IND-89.2%}
WN IND-AUS-97.0%; AUS-IND-90.9% (Sun only)
WN IND-LAS-92.9%; LAS-IND-90.7%
WN IND-OAK-82.6%; OAK-IND-90.2% (2 departures)
WN IND-HOU-88.7%; HOU-IND-90.0%
WN IND-RSW-92.5%; RSW-IND-89.9%
WN IND-FLL-88.4%; FLL-IND-86.9%
WN IND-TPA-76.3%; TPA-IND-86.2%
WN IND-MCO-86.0%; MCO-IND-85.2%
WN IND-DAL-91.9%; DAL-IND-85.7%
WN IND-MSY-86.7%; MSY-IND-82.0% (Sun only)
WN IND-BWI-83.6%; BWI-IND-81.0%
WN IND-ATL-84.1%; ATL-IND-81.0% {2018 WN IND-ATL-76.8%; ATL-IND-74.5%}
WN IND-MCI-62.8%; MCI-IND-62.6% {2018 WN IND-MCI-71.5%, MCI-IND-70.0%} (Fascinating route)

NK IND-MCO-89.1%; MCO-IND-87.8%
NK IND-LAS-81.0%; LAS-IND-85.3%
NK IND-MYR-51.4%; MYR-IND-77.9% (fully expect this to be gone next summer)

UA IND-DEN-95.2%; DEN-IND-94.9%
UA IND-EWR-85.6%; EWR-IND-92.4% {2018 UA IND-EWR-75.5%; EWR-IND-88.4%}
UA IND-IAH-93.9%; IAH-IND-91.8%
UA IND-ORD-91.1%; ORD-IND-91.4%
UA IND-SFO-90.6%; SFO-IND-91.0% {UA IND-SFO-81.7%; SFO-IND-83.3%} (WN’s absense on IND-OAK likely played into this)
UA IND-IAD-86.8%; IAD-IND-90.3%

As I have mentioned before IND-SEA is a strong candidate for increased summer service, either on DL or AS

DL teased IND-MCO turning to an A320 last May, but I think it still has a good chance of happening next summer. Even with NK entering the market yields rose and so did LFs. With IND-SLC/LAX already on the B738, a second frequency or B739 could very likely happen next summer. Whatever happens with the MAX will determine what DL does with IND-LAX, if that MAX returns by Summer 2020, WN or AA will be double daily in the market which will likely stop DL from adding more capacity.

In my head I could see DL running this schedule next summer: (1xLAX (B739), 1xSLC (B739), 1xSEA (B738), 5xMSP (2B738/2A319/B717), 7xDTW (B739/B717/5CR9), 1xMCO (A320), 2xRDU (CR9/CR7), and everything else status quo)

IND-PHX, is heavily dependent on the MAX as both carriers serving the route are impacted. Until the MAX issues are lifted, LFs on that route will stay sky high.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:15 am

CRJ 550 flights go on sale starting Saturday, October 12 for travel beginning Sunday, October 27 from IND to ORD, potentially IAD & EWR will be added in the near future as well.


https://hub.united.com/2019-10-10-unite ... 19638.html
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GSOtoIND
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 11, 2019 1:17 am

Midwestindy wrote:

DL teased IND-MCO turning to an A320 last May, but I think it still has a good chance of happening next summer. Even with NK entering the market yields rose and so did LFs.


If I remember correctly, our MCO flight goes RDU-MCO-IND (RON) INC-MCO-RDU, so we're tied to whatever equipment they put on that one RDU-MCO frequency. As far as SLC goes, didn't RDU get a second daily flight recently? I know CVG has one, so it wouldn't be a stretch to see us eventually get one for summer. All those western flights we get once daily are good candidates for the CS300 at higher frequencies once that type enters the fleet.
IND. 2018: BOS/AUA/MIA/DEN Next: LAS/SLC/DEN
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 11, 2019 1:14 pm

GSOtoIND wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

DL teased IND-MCO turning to an A320 last May, but I think it still has a good chance of happening next summer. Even with NK entering the market yields rose and so did LFs.


If I remember correctly, our MCO flight goes RDU-MCO-IND (RON) INC-MCO-RDU, so we're tied to whatever equipment they put on that one RDU-MCO frequency. As far as SLC goes, didn't RDU get a second daily flight recently? I know CVG has one, so it wouldn't be a stretch to see us eventually get one for summer. All those western flights we get once daily are good candidates for the CS300 at higher frequencies once that type enters the fleet.


The MCO part is true, the RDU flight is tied to IND, as those are the only two routes from MCO that see anything less than a B738. Currently however, IND-MCO & RDU-MCO are experiencing LFs above 90% for sustained periods, and this could perhaps convince DL to make a change.

The current routing allows them to serve the market quite well with a morning departure and evening return. However, if they wanted to upguage to a larger aircraft without upguaging RDU, they could run the flight IND-MCO-IND-MSP/DTW/ATL-XXX-ATL/DTW/MSP-IND (would ultimately lead to the disappearance of the evening MCO-IND). More likely though is seeing all RDU-MCO & IND-MCO flights upguagued, which I believe is warranted.

I don't think IND will have to wait until the CS300 for double daily outwest. Demand and yields are there now to justify it, and with CVG/RDU/BNA all having double to some of the west coast hubs, I think it makes sense. They are already firmly the number 1 US3, but this would solidify them as #1 at IND.
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