Trk1 wrote:

If they average 5 people per day (which they will not) hardly justifies a non-stop flight.

I was figuring the UH-Oxford joint venture might, over the course of a year, add a couple of plane-loads to total traffic. Coupled with the Clinic's growing business as their London hospital gets going in 2020 (2021 opening), the market increase is starting to be a meaningful additive number. Plus the Clinic's AUH operation is expanding by 30% this year and could neatly push traffic through LHR. No, I'm not counting on any single event or organization to justify the flight; but in aggregate, there should be a good bit more CLE-LHR business demand in the near future than there was when the flight was cancelled.

BA, a likely candidate for the market, has numerous UK domestic flights using up LHR slots; so slots aren't a problem in that airline's case. Looking at their recent US adds, CLE has to be on their 2020 watch list.

Not directly Massey’s point but I was surprised to read Clinic in London is only 210 beds. That’s a tiny hospital. Now it may cater to people with big $$ to spend bit still a small hospital.

If I were BA I’d buy billboards in Cleveland and advertise in Playhouse Square program and leave it at that. The drive to PIT is easier than connecting, especially from east side, no reason they couldn’t draw twenty people per flight from Cleveland.

Consideration of new BA destinations a few years ago:

https://www.tennessean.com/story/money/ ... /15417177/

https://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/ ... t-for.html

https://www.dispatch.com/content/storie ... appen.html

The Columbus Dispatch on same as above

ncflyer wrote:

Not directly Massey’s point but I was surprised to read Clinic in London is only 210 beds. That’s a tiny hospital. Now it may cater to people with big $$ to spend bit still a small hospital.

Most people in the UK use the NHS. The Cleveland Clinic London is indeed for people with lots of cash. 210 beds will probably be fine. They could also expand somehow if its a big hit.

ncflyer wrote:

If I were BA I’d buy billboards in Cleveland and advertise in Playhouse Square program and leave it at that. The drive to PIT is easier than connecting, especially from east side, no reason they couldn’t draw twenty people per flight from Cleveland.

For years Cleveland was bombarded with ads from CAK to use that airport over Hopkins--and now you're suggesting the placement of BA ads pushing PIT in Downtown CLE? I certainly hope that never happens. CLE-LHR could readily stand on its own. Yes, BP is gone, but there is still a lot of demand---and the UH deal and CC hospital certainly add to it. And, of course, there is all that connecting traffic to Europe/Middle East/India/Africa that can't/won't use FI because the destination isn't served--and if it is--because FI's service is not daily and/or because it doesn't operate year-round.

Greenair you’re making great arguments for why CLE could support flights to Europe. I’m saying BA has PIT LHR flights to fill up year round right this second— why wouldn’t they look to underserved Cleveland for passengers— good use of their marketing subsidy from Allegheny County Airport Authority. I hope you don’t think I’m suggesting Cleveland Growth Association or Destination Cleveland pay for the ads.

I think it would be good business for BA. And if the ads are a success— BA uniquely would have some great intelligence on Cleveland market because they would know where their PIT LHR pax are coming from.

Here's an interesting article about the resurrection of Edmonton International Airport (YEG), long the underutilized, red-headed stepchild to Alberta's larger airport in Calgary (YYC). Could it offer some lessons for CLE?

https://edmontonsun.com/opinion/columni ... al-airport

A few key items:

-Courageous and visionary decisions about long-term goals were made in the 1990's and implemented in a multi-phase expansion and modernization
-Airport ownership was transferred from the federal government to a non-profit regional airport authority mandated to bring Edmonton’s air transport back from the dead.
-Social media campaigns overwhelmed the old guard status quo and rallied for change (including closing the older Municipal Airport)
-An Airport City "wealth generator" was built around YEG with businesses, entertainment venues, shopping, hotels, bringing with it $750 million of airport-related investment, along with 2,000 new jobs
-A small, but growing and right-sized international operation has been developed with nonstop service to AMS, KEF, and LGW (starting this summer), 11 transborder routes to the USA, along with an increasing number flights to sunny leisure destinations.

A second article documents plans for YEG to become major distribution hub for North American/Asian air cargo.

https://edmontonsun.com/opinion/columni ... ay-to-asia

Plus, it has a really cool looking control tower! http://www.dialogdesign.ca/projects/edm ... rol-tower/

Browsing on Icelandair's site, it appears the fares are substantially higher than last summer, ranging from $371 to just under $200 for the lowest one-way no-bags fare to KEF depending on the day of travel. There is one cheap day (which varies) per week. So it's fairly easy to find a $650 round trip; UK and the continent run at least a third higher. So, they won't be giving seats away, but it will be a reasonable deal; and with 4 weekly flights instead of 9 in the market last year, FI will probably make some money.

Fantastic article on Edmonton. One other point from the article, a downtown Edmonton airport was shut down to consolidate volumes and investment.

A contrast to CLE sounds like YEG has oodles of land.

Really impressed with how forward thinking Edmonton’s leaders were— not easy for a city to cede control to a regional airport authority

masseybrown wrote:

Browsing on Icelandair's site, it appears the fares are substantially higher than last summer, ranging from $371 to just under $200 for the lowest one-way no-bags fare to KEF depending on the day of travel. There is one cheap day (which varies) per week. So it's fairly easy to find a $650 round trip; UK and the continent run at least a third higher. So, they won't be giving seats away, but it will be a reasonable deal; and with 4 weekly flights instead of 9 in the market last year, FI will probably make some money.

Less than Daily on any service/route really bothers me, as it cannot be a suitable route for CLE-Europe business. So even if you want to support it and have to fly to mainland Europe for business, you'd have to match the exact dates of service in both directions, otherwise you're taking AA/DL/UA/AC and connecting somewhere other than KEF. If FI did 7x, they could probably fill the planes, but since they won't commit, they may difficultly filling 4x. Last year, they flew 5x.

greenair727 wrote:

masseybrown wrote:

Browsing on Icelandair's site, it appears the fares are substantially higher than last summer, ranging from $371 to just under $200 for the lowest one-way no-bags fare to KEF depending on the day of travel. There is one cheap day (which varies) per week. So it's fairly easy to find a $650 round trip; UK and the continent run at least a third higher. So, they won't be giving seats away, but it will be a reasonable deal; and with 4 weekly flights instead of 9 in the market last year, FI will probably make some money.

Less than Daily on any service/route really bothers me, as it cannot be a suitable route for CLE-Europe business. So even if you want to support it and have to fly to mainland Europe for business, you'd have to match the exact dates of service in both directions, otherwise you're taking AA/DL/UA/AC and connecting somewhere other than KEF. If FI did 7x, they could probably fill the planes, but since they won't commit, they may difficultly filling 4x. Last year, they flew 5x.

I 100% agree and voted with my $. If I wanted a Monday return from AMS on FI, the only option was 2 stops (KEF, BOS) and it was $200 more than the Tuesday flight with one stop. Although I wanted to try FI, I passed due to the 4x per week. I would have thought at least 5x based on the prior 9x in the marketplace.

Furthermore without being year round, good luck getting cleveland business travelers flying Icelandair enough to accumulate any loyalty types of benefits.

fun2fly wrote:

greenair727 wrote:

masseybrown wrote:

Browsing on Icelandair's site, it appears the fares are substantially higher than last summer, ranging from $371 to just under $200 for the lowest one-way no-bags fare to KEF depending on the day of travel. There is one cheap day (which varies) per week. So it's fairly easy to find a $650 round trip; UK and the continent run at least a third higher. So, they won't be giving seats away, but it will be a reasonable deal; and with 4 weekly flights instead of 9 in the market last year, FI will probably make some money.

Less than Daily on any service/route really bothers me, as it cannot be a suitable route for CLE-Europe business. So even if you want to support it and have to fly to mainland Europe for business, you'd have to match the exact dates of service in both directions, otherwise you're taking AA/DL/UA/AC and connecting somewhere other than KEF. If FI did 7x, they could probably fill the planes, but since they won't commit, they may difficultly filling 4x. Last year, they flew 5x.

I 100% agree and voted with my $. If I wanted a Monday return from AMS on FI, the only option was 2 stops (KEF, BOS) and it was $200 more than the Tuesday flight with one stop. Although I wanted to try FI, I passed due to the 4x per week. I would have thought at least 5x based on the prior 9x in the marketplace.

I couldn't agree more after 4x to 5x boost last season after the WW entry, an original intent of year round (reduced off season), and now a later start season. Glad FI came, better than nothing for leisure travelers, but it feels CLE is behind on many things like facilities to the likes of AS/SEA and MCO service (as examples) in comparison to neighboring/similar sized markets

I’m also not a fan of Icelandair and tried to book a short week trip to GLA to find out it was over 1700$ , no thanks , I’ll pay 700$ less and stop over somewhere! CLE might be in a bad loop with this if bookings are low forcing FI to end service , it won’t look good to others in the potential TATL market , I wonder what bookings to other cities in Europe with mega hubs would be like? FI operation at KEF isn’t all that impressive with really only a handful of connections offered . I think service to any of the 4 mega hubs would be better.


Also on a sidebar FI website I find difficult to navigate , I wish they would do what Allegiant does and only show days of actual flts

Robert1010 wrote:

I wish [FI] would do what Allegiant does and only show days of actual flts

I wish they ALL would do that.

Robert1010 wrote:

I wish [FI] would do what Allegiant does and only show days of actual flts

I wish they ALL would do that.

Last summer I thought WW underpriced their product; this year I think FI is overpricing theirs. I'm guessing they may have sales to fill seats as the summer gets closer.

masseybrown wrote:

Robert1010 wrote:

I wish [FI] would do what Allegiant does and only show days of actual flts

I wish they ALL would do that.

Last summer I thought WW underpriced their product; this year I think FI is overpricing theirs. I'm guessing they may have sales to fill seats as the summer gets closer.

Who knows! I see they still haven’t scheduled anything other than the 737 max ! Thought the 757 made a couple stops last year !!

Robert1010 wrote:

masseybrown wrote:

Robert1010 wrote:

I wish [FI] would do what Allegiant does and only show days of actual flts

I wish they ALL would do that.

Last summer I thought WW underpriced their product; this year I think FI is overpricing theirs. I'm guessing they may have sales to fill seats as the summer gets closer.

Who knows! I see they still haven’t scheduled anything other than the 737 max ! Thought the 757 made a couple stops last year !!

The 757's were here on 3 Fridays due to the 737Max's being rotated out for wi-fi installations.

Robert1010 wrote:

I think service to any of the 4 mega hubs would be better.

Also on a sidebar FI website I find difficult to navigate , I wish they would do what Allegiant does and only show days of actual flts

Agreed on all the above

Jist spotted an Aer Lingus billboard heading north on 237 just after you leave the airport advertising CLE-DUB service.....did I miss something?!?

I did some tinkering on Icelandair website. Flight to KEF and CDG/ORY are very cheap compared to before. Start at $500 or so to KEF $1100 or so to Paris, this is peak— mid July. Must have to do with competition and/or taxes.

swacle wrote:

Jist spotted an Aer Lingus billboard heading north on 237 just after you leave the airport advertising CLE-DUB service.....did I miss something?!?

Just saw it too. A depiction of Ohio in yellow/beige, the word Failte' (meaning welcome) enlarged in the middle, and a depiction of Ireland in Green. The only other words on the billboard are Cleveland and Aer Lingus that I could spot passing.

Can confirm. There is one northbound and one southbound. Here’s a picture of the northbound one:

https://mobile.twitter.com/Sgt_Barone/s ... 0158299138

joeman wrote:

swacle wrote:

Jist spotted an Aer Lingus billboard heading north on 237 just after you leave the airport advertising CLE-DUB service.....did I miss something?!?

Just saw it too. A depiction of Ohio in yellow/beige, the word Failte' (meaning welcome) enlarged in the middle, and a depiction of Ireland in Green. The only other words on the billboard are Cleveland and Aer Lingus that I could spot passing.

Just looked this up, Aer Lingus is partnered with these airlines that fly to CLE:
Air Canada
jetBlue
United

And then of course, other IAG carriers, British Airways (at PIT) for example

I look at this and I wonder if jetBlue is a prime suspect, maybe trying to advertise and get passengers to use jetBlue to connect in Boston and then onto Ireland/Europe?
It would be awesome (but also weird at the same time) to see Aer Lingus at CLE, although I'm curious about the the product and connections difference. BA vs EI? London vs Dublin?
How easy/ideal would connecting in DUB be? Although as it is, and by the looks of the latests posts, any "mainland" connecting point in better than what FI is offering at KEF...

Thanks for photo. Doesn’t look like an official Aer Lingus billboard that’s for sure. I wonder if Aer Lingus route planners are scouting in Cleveland, and billboards are meant for courting.

That's pretty wild...and certainly not a mistake. I did take a look at EI this past month when planning a trip. They partner with UA on mileage redemption and BA/B6 on flights so it was a bit odd. Either way, an EI321 should be able to make CLE work as their onward network is decent. I remember the airport director saying we'd get TATL service when the airline got the right sized plane so it could be EI. Either way, that's really an odd billboard.

Playing with the language, it sounds like EI is welcoming Cleveland, not Cleveland welcoming Aer Lingus which would be "Failte go Cleveland". Nice mystery.

fun2fly wrote:

That's pretty wild...and certainly not a mistake. I did take a look at EI this past month when planning a trip. They partner with UA on mileage redemption and BA/B6 on flights so it was a bit odd. Either way, an EI321 should be able to make CLE work as their onward network is decent. I remember the airport director saying we'd get TATL service when the airline got the right sized plane so it could be EI. Either way, that's really an odd billboard.

Agreed. I also think of why Aer Lingus would advertise for you to fly on another airline without mentioning that airline...It's clearly a (weird) ad for EI. Makes me think something is in the works. If WOW could fly a 321 from KEF, surely EI could fly one of the 14 new 321LRs they are receiving starting this year.

Side note: if BDL can make EI work, surely CLE could. But maybe that's just wishful thinking...

Eaton would certainly be pleased with this addition as it would connect their North American headquarters in Beachwood with their world headquarters in Dublin.

Forbes article from Jan 2019 talking about Aer Lingus rebrand and push for new Transatlantic flights, mentioning the 321LRs. They are using similar language KEF uses as the "best alternative" to a hub like LHR for example to promote Dublin and Shannon...and I do actually believe this option is better. They hope to be a more affordable "budget" carrier across the atlantic.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sarahturne ... 700df25bf9

Wouldn’t surprise me , possibly a flt to SNN to get all the CLE descendants back home to Co Mayo , both my cousins sides are from Mayo and go back often !

I can’t see an airline putting this up using a code share ! I know B6 is going 4x BOS but don’t think it’s related or just a hoax !

Spotted a third billboard on 71 north before downtown. I’m guessing these wouldn’t be plastered all over the city if it wasn’t real. My guess is that these are teasers and we will see a formal announcement in the next week or two.

Wow with three billboards my view has changed. I think this is one of those ad campaigns intended to peak curiosity and generate buzz (as all of us are exhibit A of that), and with an announcement will come the real Aer Lingus logo on the billboard. The billboards could be sponsored by destination Clevleland, the airport, or Aer Lingus.

Robert1010 wrote:

Wouldn’t surprise me , possibly a flt to SNN to get all the CLE descendants back home to Co Mayo , both my cousins sides are from Mayo and go back often !

If you look at the list of largest US cities with the largest Irish-ancestry populations, CLE is right up there at 9.4%. Not that that means much, but it's a fun fact i guess...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U ... opulations

This is nice surprise. I just hope it is daily and not less, otherwise we'll still need a daily carrier only it will be much much harder to land.

If EI claims it is evaluating upwards of 15 North American destinations right now, I wonder if there aren't more billboards like these in other cities. Like NCFlyer said, maybe it's a test for each of these routes to see with ones generate the most excitement?

ncflyer wrote:

Wow with three billboards my view has changed. I think this is one of those ad campaigns intended to peak curiosity and generate buzz (as all of us are exhibit A of that), and with an announcement will come the real Aer Lingus logo on the billboard. The billboards could be sponsored by destination Clevleland, the airport, or Aer Lingus.

Not sure if this is exactly what you are getting at, but I don’t think these were put up by Aer Lingus. They are just normal block letters. Not the official logo, which seems weird. I would like the local news look into seeing what’s behind them.

I would also guess the airline is more concerned about incentives they would get than billboard excitement.

Geowizical wrote:

If EI claims it is evaluating upwards of 15 North American destinations right now, I wonder if there aren't more billboards like these in other cities. Like NCFlyer said, maybe it's a test for each of these routes to see with ones generate the most excitement?

A billboard with the largest word being one the average person doesn't even understand, care, or will check into. They will recognize the Ohio outline, might recognize Aer Lingus as an Irish airline, and then associate the green blob as Ireland, but not a lot a time to study billboards at freeway speed

The airport didn’t pay for them.

Quoted a.net members. Lol.

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2019/03/ ... ility.html

Jshank83 wrote:

The airport didn’t pay for them.

Quoted a.net members. Lol.

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2019/03/ ... ility.html

A.net made it!!!!

Midwestindy wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

The airport didn’t pay for them.

Quoted a.net members. Lol.

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2019/03/ ... ility.html

A.net made it!!!!

Does this make a.net a credible source? Ha.

The quote from Hopkins was "We can’t speak for anyone else. I can just tell you we didn’t buy them,” That leads me to be believe they know who did, and I suspect it was the chamber of commerce Greater Cleveland Partnership. Now, that's something cleveland.com should look into.

Billboards having their intended effect. Picked up by another media outlet. I’d expect TV stations by end of the day.

Geowizical wrote:

fun2fly wrote:

That's pretty wild...and certainly not a mistake. I did take a look at EI this past month when planning a trip. They partner with UA on mileage redemption and BA/B6 on flights so it was a bit odd. Either way, an EI321 should be able to make CLE work as their onward network is decent. I remember the airport director saying we'd get TATL service when the airline got the right sized plane so it could be EI. Either way, that's really an odd billboard.

Agreed. I also think of why Aer Lingus would advertise for you to fly on another airline without mentioning that airline...It's clearly a (weird) ad for EI. Makes me think something is in the works. If WOW could fly a 321 from KEF, surely EI could fly one of the 14 new 321LRs they are receiving starting this year.

Side note: if BDL can make EI work, surely CLE could. But maybe that's just wishful thinking...

Yes but the state of Connecticut is basically underwriting that route.

corn4ahead wrote:

UA Ramp tower is officially closed as of Monday (1/14).

What was the role of the ramp tower--was this the command center for ramp operations?

ncflyer wrote:

I wonder if Aer Lingus route planners are scouting in Cleveland, and billboards are meant for courting.

In the clear light of morning, I'll go with this explanation for the billboards.Besides, the Google rumors on another board are even more fun.

When I posted that speculation,I didn’t realize there were three spotted billboards. If you’re welcoming a visitor,one or maybe two billboards that you know the visitors will drive by is enough, three would be overkill. I think those three billboards will be converted to something with a logo and more official looking after an announcement is made, that’s my prediction.

greenair727 wrote:

corn4ahead wrote:

UA Ramp tower is officially closed as of Monday (1/14).

What was the role of the ramp tower--was this the command center for ramp operations?

They controlled all the pushbacks for the C gates and B3, B5, B7. Also, when D was active, all the D gates.

You onced pushed, they assigned the aircraft one of the spots. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, or 6. Spots 7, 8, 9 were not assigned by the ramp tower. Once at the spots, the aircraft would call ATC and would be taxiied from the spots instead of off the gates.

Also, UAL ops were located in the tower so they would take care of operational things as well.

Well, now this is an thing...
"Delayed Delivery of Aer Lingus Aircraft"
https://www.independent.ie/life/travel/ ... 76736.html

All the billboards confirm to me is that Cleveland’s a joke. If EI really is coming, then whoever paid for the billboards has absolutely JV timing. If they aren’t, then whoeever paid for them is an idiot for conveying the wrong message and getting everyone riled up. It’s such an amateur move either way that of COURSE it would happen in CLE.

Best bet right now is, I think, that Aer Lingus is scouting Cleveland and the billboards are supposed to be meant for them.