ncflyer
Posts: 1133
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 7:03 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:17 pm

Wow-- harsh. I guess you prefer Crains' coverage, they have written nothing, which is really hard to believe, I keep hoping they'd come up with some new insights.

It is labelled as commentary I have absolutely no problem disagreeing with an industry consultant who is using-- commentary. Your expectations on industry proprietary information--- FF base, FF loyalty, yields, fees, etc. is awfully high, I can't ever remember an article in teh NYT or WSJ with that kind of detail, most readers' eyes would glaze over.

I am glad the PD is doing something to keep the airport in public view it sure doesn't seem like enough people are doing that.
 
User avatar
compensateme
Posts: 3280
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:17 am

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:17 pm

ncflyer wrote:
Wow-- harsh. I guess you prefer Crains' coverage, they have written nothing, which is really hard to believe, I keep hoping they'd come up with some new insights.


I prefer balanced, factual coverage.

It is labelled as commentary I have absolutely no problem disagreeing with an industry consultant who is using-- commentary. Your expectations on industry proprietary information--- FF base, FF loyalty, yields, fees, etc. is awfully high, I can't ever remember an article in teh NYT or WSJ with that kind of detail, most readers' eyes would glaze over.


First off, there's a certain forum participant within the DTW thread who ignores facts and experts to commentate his own narrative. What she's doing -- and the same level of thought used in the piece -- is no different. That poster, while showing passion, has done nothing other than to embarrass himself and his entire community, making it the mockery of a.net. Don't let her do the same to CLE.

Secondly, to prove her assertion, she could've researched or paid for data that showed the total trips from CLE across the Atlantic broken down by airline, and then compared it to the prior year. Minimal effort on her part, but good journalistic standards like Newhouse use to enforce.
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
User avatar
jetpixx
Posts: 883
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2004 3:22 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:04 am

Robert1010 wrote:
Unfortunately some part of me still feels the best chance for a TATL is still someone like Air Serbia who has been growing and used to fly here ( Yugoslav ) to Belgrade , but that wouldn’t be a connection type service , mostly local !


Was it to Belgrade? Or Ljubljana? I seem to remember the JAT DC-10 going to the latter, as that is why I know of that city. I love aviation, and I love geography...and that's how I learned of Ljubljana in the 80's.

Do you remember when Condor was actually in CLE with a DC-8 to Warsaw? It might have been once or twice per week, but it was there.
ABE, BIL, BOS, BUF, BWI, CAE, CAK, CHS, CLE, CLT, CVG, DAY, DFW, DTW, EWR, FLL, GSO, IAD, IAH, IND, ISP, JAX, JFK, LAS, LGA, M57, MDW, MEM, MHT, MIA, MKE, MLB, MSO, MSP, OMA, ORD, PBI, PHL, PIT, PVD, RDU, SEA, SFO, SLC, SJU, STL, SYR, TLH, TMB, TUL, YVR
 
User avatar
CLEguy
Posts: 228
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 10:49 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:39 am

jetpixx wrote:
Robert1010 wrote:
Unfortunately some part of me still feels the best chance for a TATL is still someone like Air Serbia who has been growing and used to fly here ( Yugoslav ) to Belgrade , but that wouldn’t be a connection type service , mostly local !


Was it to Belgrade? Or Ljubljana? I seem to remember the JAT DC-10 going to the latter, as that is why I know of that city. I love aviation, and I love geography...and that's how I learned of Ljubljana in the 80's.

Do you remember when Condor was actually in CLE with a DC-8 to Warsaw? It might have been once or twice per week, but it was there.


I don't think Condor ever flew to WAW. Perhaps it was a one-off charter flight. Condor routed CLE-DTW-FRA-CLE, once per week in summer, usually using DC-10's. JAT did fly to ZAG and LJU (and maybe BEG), but I can't recall the exact routing. Malev also offered charters to BUD. Those were the days!
 
kavok
Posts: 543
Joined: Wed May 11, 2016 10:12 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:35 pm

Regarding TATL flights, one aspect that hasn’t been brought up recently is the fact that WW, FI, and EI cater to different markets than say legacies like BA, DL, LH, etc., and that is particularly relevant in CLE’s case because of geography. I just mention it because some are putting all airlines into one TATL basket, and there are really two separate market cases to be had.

Simply put, the lower fare carriers like EI & FI that are simply offering a low ticket price to Europe create a situation where CLE is in direct competition with PIT, DTW, CMH, etc. Low fare travelers will make the 2-hour drive to PIT, 2.5-hours to DTW, etc. to get a cheap flight. It is all about ticket cost, and unlike MCI, there are plenty of larger size metros a few hours drive from CLE. And for FI/EI, it really is CLE vs. PIT/DTW/CMH/etc.

Conversely, DL/BA/LH would all be targeting the local CLE market, and particularly the CLE business market. Business pax aren’t going to usually make that same 2/2.5 hour drive to PIT/DTW that low fare seekers would, and will instead will opt to fly from CLE regardless even if it means paying for a RJ flight from CLE to DTW (as one example). This creates a different market dynamic.

For BA/DL/LH, the question is where does the CLE business pax want to connect? Because even if CLE got a LH flight for example, would a CLE business pax heading to London opt for CLE-FRA-LHR, or would they still want to fly say CLE-PHL-LHR instead? They are still making a connection, the only question is where and on which side of the Atlantic. Just because CLE gets a TATL flight to somewhere in Europe, it doesn’t man the business pax will automatically opt for that route... especially if the geography or timing is not good.
 
MohawkWeekend
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:06 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:48 pm

Actually at this stage I'd take a direct flight like Pan Am did in the 80'2 (A310 to Detroit and then to London) But I don't think airlines do that any more.
300 319 320 321 707 717 720 727 72S 737 73S 734 735 73G 738 739 747 757 762 ARJ B11 C212 CRJ CR2 CR7 CR9 CV5 D8S DC9 D9S D94 D95 D10 DH8 DTO EMB EM2 E135 E145 E190 FH7 F28 F100 FTRIMTR HRN L10 L15 M80 M90 SF3 SWM
 
steeler83
Posts: 7601
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:47 pm

I know there are a number of factors that come into play when booking international travel - even if there is a non-stop option available. In many cases, making a connection, whether it be domestically via ORD, PHL, JFK, etc, can still be a few hundred bucks cheaper than simply flying non-stop or connecting across the pond at CDG, FRA, etc. When my mom traveled to London from Pittsburgh for business, she went via AA through ORD instead of using the DL PIT-CDG flight. For starters, I don't think her company at the time knew of this option, and even if it did the timing wasn't as favorable as the option through ORD (weird, I know).

Still, coming back to connecting vs. nonstop. Suppose someone is traveling from Pittsburgh to London next month on a day when BA operates the route non-stop. I believe that's a late evening departure time. That said, suppose the people traveling have to be in London early the very next day. They may still opt for a flight to PHL for an earlier connection (066 departs at 6:40 pm)
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
klm617
Posts: 4339
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:21 pm

compensateme wrote:
ncflyer wrote:
Wow-- harsh. I guess you prefer Crains' coverage, they have written nothing, which is really hard to believe, I keep hoping they'd come up with some new insights.


I prefer balanced, factual coverage.

It is labelled as commentary I have absolutely no problem disagreeing with an industry consultant who is using-- commentary. Your expectations on industry proprietary information--- FF base, FF loyalty, yields, fees, etc. is awfully high, I can't ever remember an article in teh NYT or WSJ with that kind of detail, most readers' eyes would glaze over.


First off, there's a certain forum participant within the DTW thread who ignores facts and experts to commentate his own narrative. What she's doing -- and the same level of thought used in the piece -- is no different. That poster, while showing passion, has done nothing other than to embarrass himself and his entire community, making it the mockery of a.net. Don't let her do the same to CLE.

Secondly, to prove her assertion, she could've researched or paid for data that showed the total trips from CLE across the Atlantic broken down by airline, and then compared it to the prior year. Minimal effort on her part, but good journalistic standards like Newhouse use to enforce.


What experts, we've only heard from people who have a different agenda that don't paint the picture from all sides and produce data just to support their own assentations . We all see things from different angles but I will say this you are one of the very few who have and objective view of what's going on and for that I respect you and your comments even if you do wish for me to crawl back under the rock I came out of.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5331
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:35 pm

kavok wrote:
For BA/DL/LH, the question is where does the CLE business pax want to connect? Because even if CLE got a LH flight for example, would a CLE business pax heading to London opt for CLE-FRA-LHR, or would they still want to fly say CLE-PHL-LHR instead? They are still making a connection, the only question is where and on which side of the Atlantic.


I believe DL has done quite well with PDX-AMS flight connections even when they require a bit of backhaul (PDX-AMS-LHR). If you have to connect *anywhere*, the comparative times end up being pretty close. FRA would involve a bit more of a backhaul in the case of UK/IR but is still not too bad.
 
User avatar
CLEguy
Posts: 228
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 10:49 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:22 pm

Here's an article from the PD about the new Master Plan: https://www.cleveland.com/cityhall/2019 ... -plan.html

There's a lot of focus on the Ground Transportation Center, as well as parking situation, brought to light again this week due to all on-site parking lots being full because of heavy loads for spring break. I just love reading some of the comments!
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5331
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:03 pm

Trying to work out a timeline for a new terminal ...

Award Master Plan support contract awarded - October, 2019
Deliver Master Plan - January, 2021 (Airport debt: ~$500 million)
City determines how to procede - July, 2021
Construction contract solicitation - January, 2022 (Airport debt: ~$425 million)
Construction begins - Summer, 2022 (Airport debt ~$375 million)
Conctruction complete - Summer, 2024 (Airport debt: $1.25 billion)

Reasonable?
 
greenair727
Posts: 1210
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:27 am

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:27 pm

masseybrown wrote:
Trying to work out a timeline for a new terminal ...

Award Master Plan support contract awarded - October, 2019
Deliver Master Plan - January, 2021 (Airport debt: ~$500 million)
City determines how to procede - July, 2021
Construction contract solicitation - January, 2022 (Airport debt: ~$425 million)
Construction begins - Summer, 2022 (Airport debt ~$375 million)
Conctruction complete - Summer, 2024 (Airport debt: $1.25 billion)

Reasonable?


I think you're being VERY optimistic. Using the same milestones:

Award Master Plan support contract awarded - October, 2019
Deliver Master Plan - January, 2021 (Airport debt: ~$500 million)
City determines how to proceede - July, 2023 - I don't think the city can anything in six months. Even to replace Ricky Smith--ONE person--took a full year.
Construction contract solicitation - July, 2024
Construction begins - Summer, 2025
Conctruction complete - depends on what the work is...
 
VetteDude
Posts: 77
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 4:13 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:33 pm

The upcoming master plan is probably our one shot for the next decade+ to actually get some real major changes. I'm not so sure they will swing for the fences with it though. I can't even imagine the push back any major (expensive) project will have from various groups.
 
strangeplanes
Posts: 73
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:16 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:42 pm

masseybrown wrote:
Trying to work out a timeline for a new terminal ...

Award Master Plan support contract awarded - October, 2019
Deliver Master Plan - January, 2021 (Airport debt: ~$500 million)
City determines how to procede - July, 2021
Construction contract solicitation - January, 2022 (Airport debt: ~$425 million)
Construction begins - Summer, 2022 (Airport debt ~$375 million)
Conctruction complete - Summer, 2024 (Airport debt: $1.25 billion)

Reasonable?

If it goes the traditional design-bid-build Route, I would budget 1-2 years for design. Construction and ORAT itself should take 3-5 years. (More likely 5)
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5331
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:47 pm

Optimistic, yes. I think, however, the options for the master plan are radically fewer than a blank piece of paper would offer. I believe the contractor will be told not to consider major road work (relocation of 237 or 17) or demolition of the IX Center, leaving relatively few choices other than some phased reconstruction of the existing terminal. The big (and potentially expensive) question should probably be: do we build it to support a future hub operation or not?
 
strangeplanes
Posts: 73
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:16 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:54 pm

masseybrown wrote:
The big (and potentially expensive) question should probably be: do we build it to support a future hub operation or not?


This question is decided by the airlines during design/finance phase.
 
fun2fly
Posts: 1465
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:44 am

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:10 pm

masseybrown wrote:
Trying to work out a timeline for a new terminal ...

Award Master Plan support contract awarded - October, 2019
Deliver Master Plan - January, 2021 (Airport debt: ~$500 million)
City determines how to procede - July, 2021
Construction contract solicitation - January, 2022 (Airport debt: ~$425 million)
Construction begins - Summer, 2022 (Airport debt ~$375 million)
Conctruction complete - Summer, 2024 (Airport debt: $1.25 billion)

Reasonable?


Couple of thoughts...

1) When is Frank's next election? Do you think that will have an impact on the timeline?
2) If Trump's president, does that play a role in the availability in Government funds? He touts himself as the infrastructure guy.
3) It took 5 years (seemed like it) to get a gas station by the rental car return, so everyone might be understating the completion date. Hell, nine months to pick a consultant?
4) Depending on what land is in scope, you may have to wait for those tenants to relocate which would affect the timeline. Could Concourse D be used as an interim solution if A or B or C were demolished?
5) I hope they don't go too crazy with wild concepts. I hope they are reasonable, implementable answers that will take us soundly through 2075-2100 (first time I've ever written that).
6) It will be interesting to see if the Port of Cleveland plays a major role in the next 24 months as nothing meaningful in this town happens w/o them.
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5331
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:13 pm

Couple of answers ... :smile:
1) 2021
2) The airport user fees will pay most costs.
3) Looking at the bidders' list only about 4 attended the bidders conference.
 
ncflyer
Posts: 1133
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 7:03 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:23 pm

I’m seeing zero evidence of political and business will to push for and undertake a major rebuild. As long as the airport is run by the city I fear that the public and city council will put forth the false narrative that airport improvements get in the way of myriad other city and regional priorities— even though all of us know the airport has to stand alone financially. Maybe a new mayor will get it on the agenda but I don’t see a new airport platform winning many votes.

Destination Cleveland seems a logica organization to push hard for a modernization but best I can tell they aren’t in a position to rock the boat.

Hope I’m wrong…
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5331
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:51 pm

Cleveland Scene says that of the $2 million in promised support to the now-departed Icelanders, only $238,000 was actually spent. The balance of the committment will be folded back into the airport's promotion budget.

https://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-he ... to-iceland
 
User avatar
CLEguy
Posts: 228
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 10:49 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:26 pm

masseybrown wrote:
Cleveland Scene says that of the $2 million in promised support to the now-departed Icelanders, only $238,000 was actually spent. The balance of the committment will be folded back into the airport's promotion budget.

https://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-he ... to-iceland


Thanks for sharing the link. This board had gone strangely silent. I guess Scene scooped the PeeDee on this one. Glad to see some accounting of the money. I guess that leaves $1.8 mil. to incentivize another airline-EI, DL, AA? One can only hope!
 
User avatar
CLEguy
Posts: 228
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 10:49 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:48 pm

Here's a pretty scathing report on what we now learned are multiple security breaches by former Airport Assistant Director and long-time CLE employee, Fred Szabo. TSA is not too happy with the delay in reporting the incident. Although it seems the airport management might have learned something from the incident by reporting the recent breach of the airfield fence immediately, and by requiring all future such notifications within 30 minutes.

https://www.cleveland.com/cityhall/2019 ... -show.html
 
ncflyer
Posts: 1133
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 7:03 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:29 pm

From a post in the Ohio thread— CAK traffic continues its free fall— half of peak of 1.8mm in 2012 and falling. Couple observations:
1). I’m sure pax are leaking to PIT and CMH also but it’s mainly good news for CLE. The bigger CLE gets the better for the region, as CLe has a prayer of attracting destinations unique to the region.
2). Hilarious in context of cleveland.com posters— you’d think CAK was growing like a weed the way so many people post about how they will flee CLE for CAK in light of the ground transportation fiasco et al. At the end of the day it’s pricing and convenience…


- 2018 total passengers: 920,002 (-27.3% YOY)
- January 2019 total passengers: 64,042 (-14.3% YOY)
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5331
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:28 pm

ncflyer wrote:
Hilarious in context of cleveland.com posters— you’d think CAK was growing like a weed the way so many people post about how they will flee CLE for CAK in light of the ground transportation fiasco et al.


I don't wish anything bad for CAK; but when CLE offers the only non-stop flight, it pulls almost all the Akron traffic away from one-stops via CAK, which is why so many Akron businesses are located in Fairlawn and Streetsboro on interstates that are an easy drive to CLE. CLE is closer to Akron than IAD is to Washington in driving time.

One of these days cleveland.com will admit that 80% of its negative posts are generated by three posters with multiple IDs.
 
greenair727
Posts: 1210
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:27 am

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:58 pm

Who knows what role Akron played in killing the feasibility of a CLE-FRA LH flight. They actively campaigned to take pax from CLE. UA may have closed the hub anyway, but with Akron actively working against the main airport in the region, it certainly didn't help things. Regarding their passenger losses, we shouldn't feel too bad.
 
greenair727
Posts: 1210
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:27 am

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:11 pm

Where can you get international pax number for CLE-xxxxxx, by month? T-100 looks like it is only direct passengers. I'm looking for passengers like CLE-EWR on UA to EWR-FRA on UA or LH, as most of int'l trips into or out of CLE will be connecting somewhere on the US side. Also, is the T-100 data on AC for CLE-LHR via YYZ captured at all? Or is it captured as CLE-YYZ, meaning the count for CLE-YYZ (O&D)is not an accurate count for the CLE-Toronto market? Here's what T-100 has for CLE----this compares July 2017 and July 2018. Did we lose MJB and NAS?

City Pax July '17 Carrier July '17
BUD 0 n/a
CUN 6984 UA/F9
KEF 0 n/a
PUJ 3862 09Q/XP
YYZ 8415 UA/ZX
GDL 36 UA
MBJ 148 09Q
NAS 40 AA
POS 91 UA
YUL 9 YX


City Pax July '18 Carrier July '18
BUD 6 24Q
CUN 5487 UA/F9
KEF 11,434 1UQ/FI/WW
PUJ 2529 09Q/1BQ
YYZ 8902 ZX
GDL 0 n/a
MBJ 0 n/a
NAS 0 n/a
POS 0 n/a
YUL 0 n/a
 
greenair727
Posts: 1210
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:27 am

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:16 pm

^By that way, that number for KEF (after reducing it by 5 for the 5 pax on Gainjet Aviation, and not on FI or WW) for July 2018 means 369 pax/day or 184 each way per day....
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5331
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:09 pm

CLE finally put out some 2019 numbers:

Total traffic in thousands
Feb19 ...Jan19 ... Feb 18 ... 19toDate .. 18toDate
643.8 ... 655.9 ... 625.2 ....... 1299.8 ... 1266.1 ..... Domestic
13.7 ..... 13.7 ..... 14.0 ......... 27.4 ........27.4 ....... Intl
657.5 ... 669.6 ... 639.2 ........1327.1 ....1293.4 ..... Total - up 2.6%

Capacity was probably flat - we'll see when DoT puts out numbers on Thursday. CLE won't hit 10 million for the year at this rate of growth.

Nice growth in year to date cargo - up 6.14%
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5331
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:51 pm

There was minor comment last week in the Financial Times (sorry, can't find link) that said Icelandair's management (since January) is concentrating on profitability, not expansion. Since the interim CEO of last August was only made permanent in December, that may account for the on-again/off-again status of CLE until recently, I think the decision to cut CLE was very recent, which actually is kind of good news - they saw promise in continuing the route. The Max8 grounding was probably the deciding factor.
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5331
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:57 am

UA having second thought about its future in CLE?

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 30123.html
 
greenair727
Posts: 1210
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:27 am

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:39 pm

^I read the article. Why do you say that?
 
chrisjake
Posts: 987
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:19 am

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:30 pm

I believe its because they list CLE as one of their hubs in the city/destination grid.
 
ncflyer
Posts: 1133
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 7:03 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:55 pm

Some of those routes are amongst the very few nonhub routes UA even flies anymore— unlike Delta UA and AA don’t do a lot of it anymore. It is a little weird being at LGA or DCA (and BOS formerly) looking at at the UA board and seeing CLE still on there as a destination.
 
jplatts
Posts: 2514
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:12 pm

ncflyer wrote:
Some of those routes are amongst the very few nonhub routes UA even flies anymore— unlike Delta UA and AA don’t do a lot of it anymore. It is a little weird being at LGA or DCA (and BOS formerly) looking at at the UA board and seeing CLE still on there as a destination.


LGA is in the same market as UA's EWR hub, and DCA is in the same market as UA's IAD hub. UA also has a customer base in the NYC and DC markets to support CLE-LGA and CLE-DCA nonstop service.
 
ncflyer
Posts: 1133
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 7:03 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:50 pm

Another max casualty in Cleveland — on short notice UA cut the evening LAX departure in May (so I assume max is the reason, though I’m only guess8ng). I’m a little surprised LAX got cut over SFO, as loads to LA are superior, but NK on LAX could pressure fares.

Three daily UA LAX departures still surviving in June we will see if that lasts.
 
joeman
Posts: 805
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 11:55 am

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:12 pm

Remembering a UA announcement of 2 daily year round to both LAX and SFO
http://www.cleveland19.com/story/386535 ... or-cities/
 
LifetimeGS
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:29 am

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:56 pm

777 diversion today.
 
chrisjake
Posts: 987
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:19 am

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:01 pm

Looks like runway 6L/24R will be closed for the next 3 months:

!CLE 04/271 CLE RWY 06L/24R CLSD 1904151300-1907152359
CREATED: 14 Apr 2019 17:08:00
SOURCE: CLE
 
corn4ahead
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:29 am

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:29 pm

chrisjake wrote:
Looks like runway 6L/24R will be closed for the next 3 months:

!CLE 04/271 CLE RWY 06L/24R CLSD 1904151300-1907152359
CREATED: 14 Apr 2019 17:08:00
SOURCE: CLE


Yes and it sucks. This is year 2 of the construction. New taxiways and being created and eventually all renamed.
 
User avatar
Groyd
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:15 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:37 pm

chrisjake wrote:
Looks like runway 6L/24R will be closed for the next 3 months:

!CLE 04/271 CLE RWY 06L/24R CLSD 1904151300-1907152359
CREATED: 14 Apr 2019 17:08:00
SOURCE: CLE


Guess spotting from 100th Bomb Group won’t be worthwhile until mid-July...
 
User avatar
CLEguy
Posts: 228
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 10:49 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:16 am

For what it’s worth, news on an Instagram account I follow notes that Aer Lingus officials were back in town this week looking at airport facilities at CLE and talking to management about incentives similar to what were offered to WOW and Icelandair for marketing support. At least EI wouldn’t have to use the substandard FIS facilities at CLE, as DUB has CPB Pre-Clearance. No source was listed.
 
greenair727
Posts: 1210
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:27 am

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:21 pm

Does EI have the equipment already for the route? And if they did launch the route, what's the earliest it could begin? Is Summer 2019 too ambitious?
 
User avatar
mbm3
Posts: 758
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 10:54 am

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:50 pm

[list=][/list]
greenair727 wrote:
Does EI have the equipment already for the route? And if they did launch the route, what's the earliest it could begin? Is Summer 2019 too ambitious?


They have 757s but I do not know if any are available for use.
Let Me Tell You, Landing A 772ER Is Harder Than It Looks!
 
Geowizical
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:49 am

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:15 pm

greenair727 wrote:
Does EI have the equipment already for the route? And if they did launch the route, what's the earliest it could begin? Is Summer 2019 too ambitious?


I think Summer 2019 is out of the question at this point, for the reason that EI's A321LR delivieries were delayed and they had to push back service to Montreal into 2020 as a result. They're still getting 4 A321LR's in the second-half of 2019 with another 4 on order for later (eight total), so Summer/Fall 2020 would be the extreme earliest if this all pans out the way we hope.
If I'm not mistaken, they are using A321LR on DUB-MSP, DUB-YUL, and replacing the B757 with an A321LR on DUB-BDL. That leaves at least one plane left with more to be received in 2020. Hopefully they decide to use one on DUB-CLE.
 
User avatar
CLEguy
Posts: 228
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 10:49 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:47 pm

In enilria's weekly post here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1420873, he writes:

Why is this still loaded at all? They announced it wouldn't operate.
*FI CLE-KEF JUN 0.6>0.2[0.7]

CLE is also still listed as a destination on Icelandair's website: https://www.icelandair.com/flights/

Are they just that bad at IT, that they didn't update the website nor clear out the flight from the OAG? Strange.
 
ncflyer
Posts: 1133
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 7:03 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:51 pm

Three flight on UA to LAX in the post hub era we hardly knew ya. Cut in June.
 
User avatar
CLEguy
Posts: 228
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 10:49 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:57 pm

ncflyer wrote:
Three flight on UA to LAX in the post hub era we hardly knew ya. Cut in June.


I read somewhere that this is just a temporary cut, perhaps due to the Max9 grounding? A random check in July and other dates show 3 daily flights.

https://www.united.com/web/en-us/apps/t ... ight=&FLN=
 
klm617
Posts: 4339
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Apr 21, 2019 3:17 pm

CLEguy wrote:
In enilria's weekly post here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1420873, he writes:

Why is this still loaded at all? They announced it wouldn't operate.
*FI CLE-KEF JUN 0.6>0.2[0.7]

CLE is also still listed as a destination on Icelandair's website: https://www.icelandair.com/flights/

Are they just that bad at IT, that they didn't update the website nor clear out the flight from the OAG? Strange.


I think even DFW is still on their route map too if I'm not mistaken.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
ncflyer
Posts: 1133
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 7:03 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:35 pm

My guess is UA will cut the third LAX flight one month at a time, and eventually the short summer period will be over. No end in sight to the Max groundings.
 
greenair727
Posts: 1210
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:27 am

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:16 pm

Something going on with the flight status and baggage claim monitors at Hopkins:

https://fox8.com/2019/04/22/i-team-offi ... -displays/

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos