ncflyer
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:02 am

If this rumor is true how many years, at best, are we talking here? Three maybe? A lot can happen between now and then especially with the economy.
 
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AirportRival
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:11 am

F9 already has some A321XLR on order. 18 if I'm not mistaken.
A319, A320, A321, B1900F, B737-300, B737-400, B737-400F, B737-700, B737-800, B757-200, B757-200F, B767-200F, B767-300F, CRJ-200, CRJ-700, ERJ-145, E-170, E-175, MD-80, SD3-60F
 
ncflyer
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:51 pm

That’s what Wikipedia says. Question is when?

Enough of all these unsubstantiated rumors I’d like to hear a peep from Icelandair about CLE future. Surely they have a max and a no max plan. MCI is loaded for next summer at present.
 
avtcle
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:25 pm

ncflyer wrote:
That’s what Wikipedia says. Question is when?

Enough of all these unsubstantiated rumors I’d like to hear a peep from Icelandair about CLE future. Surely they have a max and a no max plan. MCI is loaded for next summer at present.


As far as any airline is concerned, the MAX will certainly be back in service by next summer. I don’t expect to see Icelandair back in Cleveland. They’ve tarnished their reputation here far too much. Who wants to book with an airline and worry that 2 months before your flight they cancel not just the flight, but the whole city?
 
N766UA
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:43 pm

ncflyer wrote:
That’s what Wikipedia says. Question is when?

Enough of all these unsubstantiated rumors I’d like to hear a peep from Icelandair about CLE future. Surely they have a max and a no max plan. MCI is loaded for next summer at present.


You have heard a peep from Icelandair. They cancelled Cleveland. Cancelled is exactly what it sounds like.
 
masseybrown
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:41 pm

AirportRival wrote:
F9 already has some A321XLR on order. 18 if I'm not mistaken.


Correct. It seems like such an irresistable approach for Frontier and Wizz to link up somewhere. It doesn't mean CLE will be part of the link, but they probably have to try it somewhere. If Brexit happens, it won't be via the UK, however. So where else might a US-Central Europe link work. Ireland? Germany? Netherlands? France? 2022 is probably their target.
 
ncflyer
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:02 pm

N766UA wrote:

You have heard a peep from Icelandair. They cancelled Cleveland. Cancelled is exactly what it sounds like.


I re-read the articles posted when Icelandair suspended flights in summer of 2019, and while they did leave the door open to return, it was a tiny sliver of a crack, they basically said "a lot can happen between now and then."

And it is a good point that their service in CLE was so bungled, how could they return with a straight face? CLE has had such bad luck with transatlantic service-- timing of recessions, hub closure, and who knows if Icelandair would have stayed (like they seem to be doing in MCI) if it had the route to itself rather than sharing it with WOW from day one.
 
klm617
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:50 pm

I have heard from a pretty reliable source that as soon as the MAX is up and running they are returning to CLE.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
joeman
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:20 pm

klm617 wrote:
I have heard from a pretty reliable source that as soon as the MAX is up and running they are returning to CLE.

Thanks for giving us some encouragement on any TATL future :veryhappy:
 
ncflyer
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:13 pm

The rumors are plentiful.

Aer Lingus, Frontier, icelandair, BA. Anyone care to rank them or add to the rumor mill.
 
avtcle
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:28 pm

Aer Lingus seems like the most likely candidate in Cleveland at this point. They’ve expressed clear interest and have actually visited with airport officials and members of the business community. What they likely heard from business leaders is that the Cleveland business community would heartily welcome a reliable, full service transatlantic carrier — especially one with far more connecting options onwards into Europe/Asia than Icelandair did/could ever offer.
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:49 am

FI was about to return to CLE after 5x weekly last year in a market that was 9x weekly (with the four from Wow). It was confident in the CLE market and dropped it (and Halifax and TPA) because of the Max8 issue. They didn't really lose face to the public, but only to those who had tickets then didn't got screwed. On this forum, we are not really the general public as we pay far more attention to these topics than others do--so our memories are longer! So if FI were to return, they would be welcomed by the public. I don't think this affects their planning anymore than it would UA deciding not to add CLE-xxx because of what they did to CLE and they did far, far worse. So if the Max8 issue is resolved, I think they'd want to come back. But if the market changed, its a different story. If AerLingus announces service, then FI may not return. But if EI doesn't announce service, I could see FI returning--and hopefully operating daily. Regarding F9, any buildup is years out.
 
avtcle
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:46 am

Just saw a YouTube ad showing all of frontier’s nonstop destinations from Cleveland and Jacksonville was one of them
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:44 pm

^F9 flies JAX--CVG/Chicago/BUF---so CLE would fit right in. As they often change their minds, maybe they were going to add it, made the ad, then changed their minds, but didn't bother fixing the ad. or maybe its an announcement yet to be made....
 
klm617
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:38 pm

greenair727 wrote:
FI was about to return to CLE after 5x weekly last year in a market that was 9x weekly (with the four from Wow). It was confident in the CLE market and dropped it (and Halifax and TPA) because of the Max8 issue. They didn't really lose face to the public, but only to those who had tickets then didn't got screwed. On this forum, we are not really the general public as we pay far more attention to these topics than others do--so our memories are longer! So if FI were to return, they would be welcomed by the public. I don't think this affects their planning anymore than it would UA deciding not to add CLE-xxx because of what they did to CLE and they did far, far worse. So if the Max8 issue is resolved, I think they'd want to come back. But if the market changed, its a different story. If AerLingus announces service, then FI may not return. But if EI doesn't announce service, I could see FI returning--and hopefully operating daily. Regarding F9, any buildup is years out.


I still think that CLE's best chance of holding onto TATL is through the add of a BA flight to London. Let's face it London is a prime destination that will always have demand from CLE as well as onward connections to pretty much the rest of the world. CLE is a very diverse city that could easily fill a BA 787 let's say 5 times a week in the summer and 4 times in the winter. BA can offer CLE so much more than FI or EI can plus as I say chances of CLE-LHR sticking are better than CLE to DUB or KEF. As you say it will be interesting to see how this pans out for CLE if FI or EI announce CLE and what impact that will have on the other carrier. But if I were in charge in CLE my energy would be directed towards BA.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
Jshank83
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:41 pm

klm617 wrote:
greenair727 wrote:
FI was about to return to CLE after 5x weekly last year in a market that was 9x weekly (with the four from Wow). It was confident in the CLE market and dropped it (and Halifax and TPA) because of the Max8 issue. They didn't really lose face to the public, but only to those who had tickets then didn't got screwed. On this forum, we are not really the general public as we pay far more attention to these topics than others do--so our memories are longer! So if FI were to return, they would be welcomed by the public. I don't think this affects their planning anymore than it would UA deciding not to add CLE-xxx because of what they did to CLE and they did far, far worse. So if the Max8 issue is resolved, I think they'd want to come back. But if the market changed, its a different story. If AerLingus announces service, then FI may not return. But if EI doesn't announce service, I could see FI returning--and hopefully operating daily. Regarding F9, any buildup is years out.


I still think that CLE's best chance of holding onto TATL is through the add of a BA flight to London. Let's face it London is a prime destination that will always have demand from CLE as well as onward connections to pretty much the rest of the world. CLE is a very diverse city that could easily fill a BA 787 let's say 5 times a week in the summer and 4 times in the winter. BA can offer CLE so much more than FI or EI can plus as I say chances of CLE-LHR sticking are better than CLE to DUB or KEF. As you say it will be interesting to see how this pans out for CLE if FI or EI announce CLE and what impact that will have on the other carrier. But if I were in charge in CLE my energy would be directed towards BA.


Just have to show them the $$$
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:13 pm

klm617 wrote:
greenair727 wrote:
FI was about to return to CLE after 5x weekly last year in a market that was 9x weekly (with the four from Wow). It was confident in the CLE market and dropped it (and Halifax and TPA) because of the Max8 issue. They didn't really lose face to the public, but only to those who had tickets then didn't got screwed. On this forum, we are not really the general public as we pay far more attention to these topics than others do--so our memories are longer! So if FI were to return, they would be welcomed by the public. I don't think this affects their planning anymore than it would UA deciding not to add CLE-xxx because of what they did to CLE and they did far, far worse. So if the Max8 issue is resolved, I think they'd want to come back. But if the market changed, its a different story. If AerLingus announces service, then FI may not return. But if EI doesn't announce service, I could see FI returning--and hopefully operating daily. Regarding F9, any buildup is years out.


I still think that CLE's best chance of holding onto TATL is through the add of a BA flight to London. Let's face it London is a prime destination that will always have demand from CLE as well as onward connections to pretty much the rest of the world. CLE is a very diverse city that could easily fill a BA 787 let's say 5 times a week in the summer and 4 times in the winter. BA can offer CLE so much more than FI or EI can plus as I say chances of CLE-LHR sticking are better than CLE to DUB or KEF. As you say it will be interesting to see how this pans out for CLE if FI or EI announce CLE and what impact that will have on the other carrier. But if I were in charge in CLE my energy would be directed towards BA.


I agree-if I were in charge--my energy would be on BA to LHR, DL/KL to AMS, and lastly UA/LH to FRA. As any of those would be superior than the non-legacies. But I would add the service cannot be 4x or 5x---it must be daily--year round. Business travel isn't less than daily. While Saturday may not be a business day, a person after a week in Europe or the US may want an extra day or 2 and fly back on Sat or Sun. Or if you have to fly out on Thurs, you won't fly an extra day early and pay for a hotel and lose a full day in the office only because there is no flight that day. For CLE-Budapest or Warsaw or Aruba, fine, it can be less than daily. But for major business hubs in Europe, it must be daily.
 
Jshank83
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:14 pm

greenair727 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
greenair727 wrote:
FI was about to return to CLE after 5x weekly last year in a market that was 9x weekly (with the four from Wow). It was confident in the CLE market and dropped it (and Halifax and TPA) because of the Max8 issue. They didn't really lose face to the public, but only to those who had tickets then didn't got screwed. On this forum, we are not really the general public as we pay far more attention to these topics than others do--so our memories are longer! So if FI were to return, they would be welcomed by the public. I don't think this affects their planning anymore than it would UA deciding not to add CLE-xxx because of what they did to CLE and they did far, far worse. So if the Max8 issue is resolved, I think they'd want to come back. But if the market changed, its a different story. If AerLingus announces service, then FI may not return. But if EI doesn't announce service, I could see FI returning--and hopefully operating daily. Regarding F9, any buildup is years out.


I still think that CLE's best chance of holding onto TATL is through the add of a BA flight to London. Let's face it London is a prime destination that will always have demand from CLE as well as onward connections to pretty much the rest of the world. CLE is a very diverse city that could easily fill a BA 787 let's say 5 times a week in the summer and 4 times in the winter. BA can offer CLE so much more than FI or EI can plus as I say chances of CLE-LHR sticking are better than CLE to DUB or KEF. As you say it will be interesting to see how this pans out for CLE if FI or EI announce CLE and what impact that will have on the other carrier. But if I were in charge in CLE my energy would be directed towards BA.


I agree-if I were in charge--my energy would be on BA to LHR, DL/KL to AMS, and lastly UA/LH to FRA. As any of those would be superior than the non-legacies. But I would add the service cannot be 4x or 5x---it must be daily--year round. Business travel isn't less than daily. While Saturday may not be a business day, a person after a week in Europe or the US may want an extra day or 2 and fly back on Sat or Sun. Or if you have to fly out on Thurs, you won't fly an extra day early and pay for a hotel and lose a full day in the office only because there is no flight that day. For CLE-Budapest or Warsaw or Aruba, fine, it can be less than daily. But for major business hubs in Europe, it must be daily.


Nothing will start daily. Legacy or non legacy. If that is a requirement then TATL will stay where it is in CLE, at nothing.
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:38 pm

^Non-daily will never give an airline an accurate metric for success. I was ready to make FI my main US-Europe airline---as I fly across the pond 6 to 8 times a year. But I couldn't because they didn't fly each day. If I flew FI eastbound, and then DL westbound--that's a one way on DL---so the overall cost would be higher. So I may as well fly DL both ways. So, instead, I never used FI for ANY of my trips to Europe and instead used legacies, even though I would have preferred to fly FI and support its CLE operations. Now if a new carrier is DL/KL and its 5x a week, it may work as there are route alternatives on the non-direct days, but not so on FI or WW, but I'd still not "commit" to the new carrier/route if it is not 7x.
 
ncflyer
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:37 pm

Let’s hope that BA in PIT is drawing a lot of NEO traffic. Nothing would make their decision to add cleveland easier. Personally I feel the two cities are too close together to both be successful for BA but I know not everyone agrees with my sentiment for that. Business class traffic won’t drive to PIT but leisure traffic surely will.
 
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flyPIT
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:50 pm

ncflyer wrote:
Let’s hope that BA in PIT is drawing a lot of NEO traffic. Nothing would make their decision to add cleveland easier. Personally I feel the two cities are too close together to both be successful for BA but I know not everyone agrees with my sentiment for that. Business class traffic won’t drive to PIT but leisure traffic surely will.

I disagree with your first point and agree with your second.

I too hope that BA in PIT is drawing strongly from NE OH, and I'm sure it is. But that would make their decision to add CLE harder, not easier. Why add CLE if they are already serving a good chunk of the market from PIT with people who are willing to drive? I wouldn't count out business traffic either. I'd much rather spend an extra hour and a half in my car instead of an hour and a half connecting in PHL or EWR. One of the reasons BA cited for withdrawing from PIT in 1999 was CO's newish CLE-LGW flight picked 1-2 business class passengers on average per day from BA's PIT flight, and that was enough to make the flight unprofitable.

I agree with you that the two cities are too close together. Then again that didn't stop WW..... but how did that work out for them? They were doing fine until they over expanded in the Midwest and added A330s to cities that already had dozens of nonstop flights to Europe.
FLYi
 
Jshank83
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:00 pm

greenair727 wrote:
^Non-daily will never give an airline an accurate metric for success. I was ready to make FI my main US-Europe airline---as I fly across the pond 6 to 8 times a year. But I couldn't because they didn't fly each day. If I flew FI eastbound, and then DL westbound--that's a one way on DL---so the overall cost would be higher. So I may as well fly DL both ways. So, instead, I never used FI for ANY of my trips to Europe and instead used legacies, even though I would have preferred to fly FI and support its CLE operations. Now if a new carrier is DL/KL and its 5x a week, it may work as there are route alternatives on the non-direct days, but not so on FI or WW, but I'd still not "commit" to the new carrier/route if it is not 7x.


Like you said BA can start less than daily and if people need to fly on a day it isn't running they can just fly with a connection like they already do. They never start anywhere, much less a midsized city, daily. BNA/PIT/MSY/AUS/etc. You start less than daily and if you prove you have demand it might work its way to daily. You already are using carriers that are zero times a day so 4x or 5x a week is better than that.
 
klm617
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:36 pm

greenair727 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
greenair727 wrote:
FI was about to return to CLE after 5x weekly last year in a market that was 9x weekly (with the four from Wow). It was confident in the CLE market and dropped it (and Halifax and TPA) because of the Max8 issue. They didn't really lose face to the public, but only to those who had tickets then didn't got screwed. On this forum, we are not really the general public as we pay far more attention to these topics than others do--so our memories are longer! So if FI were to return, they would be welcomed by the public. I don't think this affects their planning anymore than it would UA deciding not to add CLE-xxx because of what they did to CLE and they did far, far worse. So if the Max8 issue is resolved, I think they'd want to come back. But if the market changed, its a different story. If AerLingus announces service, then FI may not return. But if EI doesn't announce service, I could see FI returning--and hopefully operating daily. Regarding F9, any buildup is years out.


I still think that CLE's best chance of holding onto TATL is through the add of a BA flight to London. Let's face it London is a prime destination that will always have demand from CLE as well as onward connections to pretty much the rest of the world. CLE is a very diverse city that could easily fill a BA 787 let's say 5 times a week in the summer and 4 times in the winter. BA can offer CLE so much more than FI or EI can plus as I say chances of CLE-LHR sticking are better than CLE to DUB or KEF. As you say it will be interesting to see how this pans out for CLE if FI or EI announce CLE and what impact that will have on the other carrier. But if I were in charge in CLE my energy would be directed towards BA.


I agree-if I were in charge--my energy would be on BA to LHR, DL/KL to AMS, and lastly UA/LH to FRA. As any of those would be superior than the non-legacies. But I would add the service cannot be 4x or 5x---it must be daily--year round. Business travel isn't less than daily. While Saturday may not be a business day, a person after a week in Europe or the US may want an extra day or 2 and fly back on Sat or Sun. Or if you have to fly out on Thurs, you won't fly an extra day early and pay for a hotel and lose a full day in the office only because there is no flight that day. For CLE-Budapest or Warsaw or Aruba, fine, it can be less than daily. But for major business hubs in Europe, it must be daily.



You had options with FI. They have connections over BOS using JetBlue. With that being said even if I had to double connect over BOS I would 100% support FI. The only way I wouldn't support a new entrant is if there wasn't a significant savings to me like $200 to $300 a round trip. But if I am in charge of giving out incentives for new service the horse I would back is BA. People fail to realize that it's not just about the CLE-LHR traffic it's the beyond connections as the Cleveland area is very diverse ethnically so I don't think PIY would be impacted by a CLE-LHR flight plus you have access to the whole eastern part of OH and those people aren't driving to PIT to catch a BA flight they would likelier drive to Detroit or Chicago. The advantage to EI or FI is those flights would be on narrow bodies where they volume would be less to fill the aircraft. Delta and skyteam are way to fickle and would cut service without a second thought so I wouldn't waste energy or time there.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
avtcle
Posts: 109
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:49 pm

Loads from May of 2019 are out and here they are:

American Airlines
CLE-MIA: 95%
CLE-LGA: 81%
CLE-JFK: 91%
CLE-DFW: 81%
CLE-CLT: 89%
CLE-ORD: 84%
CLE-DCA: 75%
CLE-PHL: 82%

United Airlines
CLE-LGA: 85%
CLE-ORD: 87%
CLE-CUN: 94% (2019-02)
CLE-LAX: 90%
CLE-MCO: 90%
CLE-SFO: 84%
CLE-EWR: 73%
CLE-IAD: 81%
CLE-DCA: 75%

Delta Airlines
CLE-LGA: 75%
CLE-JFK: 88%
CLE-SLC: 92%
CLE-BDL: 70%
CLE-BOS: 86%
CLE-RDU: 62%
CLE-MSP: 88%
CLE-ATL: 89%

Spirit Airlines
CLE-DFW: 84%
CLE-MCO: 91%
CLE-TPA: 56% (Last flight out of the season)
CLE-RSW: 62% (Last flight out of the season)
CLE-LAX: 93%
CLE-LAS: 95%
CLE-ATL: 77%
CLE-MSY: 78%
CLE-BOS: 81%
CLE-FLL: 95%


Frontier Airlines:
CLE-SEA: 94%
CLE-MCO: 93%
CLE-TPA: 92%
CLE-RSW: 88%
CLE-SFO: 90%
CLE-SAN: 95%
CLE-AUS: 82%
CLE-CHS: 73%
CLE-PHX: 93%
CLE-LAS: 91%
CLE-RDU: 82%
CLE-MSP: 77% (This route is being terminated in October)
CLE-SRQ: 80%
CLE-PUJ: 81% (2019-02)
CLE-CUN: 78% (2019-02)

Southwest Airlines:
CLE-MCO: 92%
CLE-TPA: 71%
CLE-RSW: 90%
CLE-PHX: 88%
CLE-LAS: 89%
CLE-STL: 86%
CLE-MKE: 74% (Seeing steady improvement on this route!)
CLE-BNA: 86%
CLE-ATL: 72%
CLE-MDW:
CLE-BWI:

Allegiant Airlines
CLE-SRQ: 90%
CLE-PGD: 84%
CLE-PIE: 87%
CLE-JAX: 86%
CLE-SAV: 82%

Jetblue Airways:
CLE-BOS: 85%
CLE-FLL: 91%
 
klm617
Posts: 4379
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:39 pm

avtcle wrote:
Loads from May of 2019 are out and here they are:

American Airlines
CLE-MIA: 95%
CLE-LGA: 81%
CLE-JFK: 91%
CLE-DFW: 81%
CLE-CLT: 89%
CLE-ORD: 84%
CLE-DCA: 75%
CLE-PHL: 82%

United Airlines
CLE-LGA: 85%
CLE-ORD: 87%
CLE-CUN: 94% (2019-02)
CLE-LAX: 90%
CLE-MCO: 90%
CLE-SFO: 84%
CLE-EWR: 73%
CLE-IAD: 81%
CLE-DCA: 75%

Delta Airlines
CLE-LGA: 75%
CLE-JFK: 88%
CLE-SLC: 92%
CLE-BDL: 70%
CLE-BOS: 86%
CLE-RDU: 62%
CLE-MSP: 88%
CLE-ATL: 89%

Spirit Airlines
CLE-DFW: 84%
CLE-MCO: 91%
CLE-TPA: 56% (Last flight out of the season)
CLE-RSW: 62% (Last flight out of the season)
CLE-LAX: 93%
CLE-LAS: 95%
CLE-ATL: 77%
CLE-MSY: 78%
CLE-BOS: 81%
CLE-FLL: 95%


Frontier Airlines:
CLE-SEA: 94%
CLE-MCO: 93%
CLE-TPA: 92%
CLE-RSW: 88%
CLE-SFO: 90%
CLE-SAN: 95%
CLE-AUS: 82%
CLE-CHS: 73%
CLE-PHX: 93%
CLE-LAS: 91%
CLE-RDU: 82%
CLE-MSP: 77% (This route is being terminated in October)
CLE-SRQ: 80%
CLE-PUJ: 81% (2019-02)
CLE-CUN: 78% (2019-02)

Southwest Airlines:
CLE-MCO: 92%
CLE-TPA: 71%
CLE-RSW: 90%
CLE-PHX: 88%
CLE-LAS: 89%
CLE-STL: 86%
CLE-MKE: 74% (Seeing steady improvement on this route!)
CLE-BNA: 86%
CLE-ATL: 72%
CLE-MDW:
CLE-BWI:

Allegiant Airlines
CLE-SRQ: 90%
CLE-PGD: 84%
CLE-PIE: 87%
CLE-JAX: 86%
CLE-SAV: 82%

Jetblue Airways:
CLE-BOS: 85%
CLE-FLL: 91%



What about CLE-DTW on Delta ?
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
avtcle
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:46 pm

Hard to catch them all the first time — I’ll get MDW, BWI & DTW.
 
joeman
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:29 pm

Just curious if the BA talk is coming from some actual present day known interest or even growth team effort like the highly publicized CMH efforts not so long ago
 
masseybrown
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:39 pm

avtcle wrote:
Hard to catch them all the first time — I’ll get MDW, BWI & DTW.


I appreciate your effort.
 
ncflyer
Posts: 1181
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 7:03 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:24 pm

Thank you avtcle good stuff. Many observations but of note: lga and jfk much improved over the winter months. Guess those routes are more seasonal than I thought.

Delta’s doing very well to BOS in its first full month.

Is F9 ending MSP or is the route seasonal?
 
avtcle
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:21 am

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:34 pm

MSP/RDU are operated in tandom. Same frequency, same days, and same aircraft. RDU will return next year, MSP will not.
 
User avatar
CLEguy
Posts: 250
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 10:49 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:26 pm

Did I miss it, but is AA canceling all CLE-JFK services, at least seasonally? I had flights booked to Europe in November and December via JFK and the scheduled changed to flights via LGA (with an airport change at my expense, of course) and and a double connect via JFK & CLT on the return. I was able to change both flights to better routings via CLT with no problem, but I was shocked not to have find a nonstop flight to JFK.
 
liveupthere
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:38 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:38 pm

avtcle wrote:
Loads from May of 2019 are out and here they are:

American Airlines
CLE-MIA: 95%
CLE-LGA: 81%
CLE-JFK: 91%
CLE-DFW: 81%
CLE-CLT: 89%
CLE-ORD: 84%
CLE-DCA: 75%
CLE-PHL: 82%

United Airlines
CLE-LGA: 85%
CLE-ORD: 87%
CLE-CUN: 94% (2019-02)
CLE-LAX: 90%
CLE-MCO: 90%
CLE-SFO: 84%
CLE-EWR: 73%
CLE-IAD: 81%
CLE-DCA: 75%

Delta Airlines
CLE-LGA: 75%
CLE-JFK: 88%
CLE-SLC: 92%
CLE-BDL: 70%
CLE-BOS: 86%
CLE-RDU: 62%
CLE-MSP: 88%
CLE-ATL: 89%

Spirit Airlines
CLE-DFW: 84%
CLE-MCO: 91%
CLE-TPA: 56% (Last flight out of the season)
CLE-RSW: 62% (Last flight out of the season)
CLE-LAX: 93%
CLE-LAS: 95%
CLE-ATL: 77%
CLE-MSY: 78%
CLE-BOS: 81%
CLE-FLL: 95%


Frontier Airlines:
CLE-SEA: 94%
CLE-MCO: 93%
CLE-TPA: 92%
CLE-RSW: 88%
CLE-SFO: 90%
CLE-SAN: 95%
CLE-AUS: 82%
CLE-CHS: 73%
CLE-PHX: 93%
CLE-LAS: 91%
CLE-RDU: 82%
CLE-MSP: 77% (This route is being terminated in October)
CLE-SRQ: 80%
CLE-PUJ: 81% (2019-02)
CLE-CUN: 78% (2019-02)

Southwest Airlines:
CLE-MCO: 92%
CLE-TPA: 71%
CLE-RSW: 90%
CLE-PHX: 88%
CLE-LAS: 89%
CLE-STL: 86%
CLE-MKE: 74% (Seeing steady improvement on this route!)
CLE-BNA: 86%
CLE-ATL: 72%
CLE-MDW:
CLE-BWI:

Allegiant Airlines
CLE-SRQ: 90%
CLE-PGD: 84%
CLE-PIE: 87%
CLE-JAX: 86%
CLE-SAV: 82%

Jetblue Airways:
CLE-BOS: 85%
CLE-FLL: 91%




CLE-DEN?
 
fun2fly
Posts: 1483
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:44 am

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:48 am

Update on parking/hotel shuttle drop off. The most disappointing part of the article is the CLE has still NOT picked a consultant yet. How long can it really take?

https://www.cleveland.com/business/2019 ... anned.html
 
HPAEAA
Posts: 1104
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 7:24 am

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:37 pm

CLEguy wrote:
Did I miss it, but is AA canceling all CLE-JFK services, at least seasonally? I had flights booked to Europe in November and December via JFK and the scheduled changed to flights via LGA (with an airport change at my expense, of course) and and a double connect via JFK & CLT on the return. I was able to change both flights to better routings via CLT with no problem, but I was shocked not to have find a nonstop flight to JFK.

Looks like AA is making some adjustments to the NYC services, I did some random searches on dates in November and December; JFK was still there but only a few days a week in November, LGA seems to swing between 2-4 flights a day (mostly morning departures) during both months. Seems odd that the route is operating with such limited frequency and no evening departure.. January seems to be back to a more normal schedule.
1.4mm and counting...
 
Robert1010
Posts: 167
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:23 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:14 pm

Oh boy ! Hope Cleveland doesn’t mess this up ! Or should I say “When” they mess this up! Sherwin-Williams looking for new headquarters, company confirms
 
SgtBarone
Posts: 234
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:20 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:32 pm

Robert1010 wrote:
Oh boy ! Hope Cleveland doesn’t mess this up ! Or should I say “When” they mess this up! Sherwin-Williams looking for new headquarters, company confirms

They've been looking for a new site since 2014, before the Valspar acquisition. SW is bursting at the seams in the Landmark Building. I'll point you to the below thread on Urban Ohio for the most up to date info:

https://forum.urbanohio.com/topic/5088- ... dquarters/

Right now it looks like the front-runner location for the new HQ/R&D site is the Jacobs'-owned lot on Public Square. An RFP has apparently gone out within the last month. If the new HQ is built in Cleveland, it will likely grow downtown employment to ~6,000. I'm guessing this public announcement mentioning that they're looking at "several other states" is either to misdirect or to entice the state to award some incentives to stay put. Either way, 2020 will be interesting.
AGP ATL BCN BNA BOS CLE CLT DCA DEN FLG FLL FRA IAD IAH JAX LAX LGB MAD MCI MDW MKE MUC PHX RDU RSW SEA SJU SLC SNA TPA
 
fun2fly
Posts: 1483
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:44 am

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:48 pm

SgtBarone wrote:
Robert1010 wrote:
Oh boy ! Hope Cleveland doesn’t mess this up ! Or should I say “When” they mess this up! Sherwin-Williams looking for new headquarters, company confirms

They've been looking for a new site since 2014, before the Valspar acquisition. SW is bursting at the seams in the Landmark Building. I'll point you to the below thread on Urban Ohio for the most up to date info:

https://forum.urbanohio.com/topic/5088- ... dquarters/

Right now it looks like the front-runner location for the new HQ/R&D site is the Jacobs'-owned lot on Public Square. An RFP has apparently gone out within the last month. If the new HQ is built in Cleveland, it will likely grow downtown employment to ~6,000. I'm guessing this public announcement mentioning that they're looking at "several other states" is either to misdirect or to entice the state to award some incentives to stay put. Either way, 2020 will be interesting.


SW certainly has the financial backing to make this happen. CLE/OH should cut to the chase and give them the incentives needed so they are not the next Eaton and clean up the last corner of Public Sq. That will cement at tier one player at CLE for a long time for air travel (decades) with a lot of corporate travel, suppliers, customers, etc.
 
highflier92660
Posts: 692
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 2:16 am

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:22 pm

fun2fly wrote:
SW certainly has the financial backing to make this happen. CLE/OH should cut to the chase and give them the incentives needed so they are not the next Eaton and clean up the last corner of Public Sq. That will cement at tier one player at CLE for a long time for air travel (decades) with a lot of corporate travel, suppliers, customers, etc.


I agree. For the foreseeable future this is Cleveland's best chance to boldly alter the skyline of the central business district and to continue to put corporate fannies in the seats at CLE. If this were any other town (e.g. Chicago, Dallas, Boise Idaho) everyone from the mayor on down would be huddling to see what kind of hail Mary package of incentives they could offer SW to enable them to break-ground on Public Square in the next few years.

Through the decades what might have been has often been the motto of Cleveland. In 1990 there were plans for Ameritrust to construct a magnificent 63-story, 1,200-foot skyscraper on that plot of land. Artist depictions show a gracefully tapering structure unlike some more contemporary, bizzaro-like asymmetrical skyscrapers that seem to flaunt the laws of physics.
 
Geowizical
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:49 am

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:28 pm

Shameless plug: See Sherwin WIlliams HQ on the UrbanOhio Forum for more info about this riveting topic!
https://forum.urbanohio.com/topic/5088- ... /#comments
 
Robert1010
Posts: 167
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:23 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:14 pm

Geowizical wrote:
Shameless plug: See Sherwin WIlliams HQ on the UrbanOhio Forum for more info about this riveting topic!
https://forum.urbanohio.com/topic/5088- ... /#comments

Sorry!but this does affect aviation business and possible attraction of future routes and new airline decisions based off top company’s , I’m on this forum and don’t want to be on another forum !
 
greenair727
Posts: 1269
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:27 am

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:16 pm

Fitch Ratings assigns A- rating to Cleveland, OH's series 2019A-C airport revenue refunding bonds

https://centreforaviation.com/news/fitc ... nds-936722
 
greenair727
Posts: 1269
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:27 am

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:19 pm

Regarding SW---their HQ and R&D are already in Cleveland. With this new building, would they have more employees in CLE? WIll they move people here from Minnesota/Valspar? If so, we should see increased demand and a stronger argument for TATL and elsewhere.
 
SgtBarone
Posts: 234
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:20 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:41 pm

greenair727 wrote:
Regarding SW---their HQ and R&D are already in Cleveland. With this new building, would they have more employees in CLE? WIll they move people here from Minnesota/Valspar? If so, we should see increased demand and a stronger argument for TATL and elsewhere.


Yes, it would likely consolidate the employees from the multiple NEO facilities and the R&D folks in Minneapolis under one roof (or perhaps a separate R&D building).
AGP ATL BCN BNA BOS CLE CLT DCA DEN FLG FLL FRA IAD IAH JAX LAX LGB MAD MCI MDW MKE MUC PHX RDU RSW SEA SJU SLC SNA TPA
 
Geowizical
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:49 am

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:54 pm

greenair727 wrote:
Regarding SW---their HQ and R&D are already in Cleveland. With this new building, would they have more employees in CLE? WIll they move people here from Minnesota/Valspar? If so, we should see increased demand and a stronger argument for TATL and elsewhere.


Stronger demand for TATL? Probably not...
Stronger demand for more flights in general? Possible...
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5363
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:54 pm

greenair727 wrote:
Fitch Ratings assigns A- rating to Cleveland, OH's series 2019A-C airport revenue refunding bonds

https://centreforaviation.com/news/fitc ... nds-936722


Good news. The A from Fitch (A+, A, or A-) means the airport is sound, solvent, and competently managed and that only the "economic situation can affect finance" as Fitch defines it. A recession would ground a lot of CLE's leisure travelers and reduce debt coverage; but to endanger the bonds it would need to be a BIG recession.
 
izbtmnhd
Posts: 858
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:06 pm

Robert1010 wrote:
Geowizical wrote:
Shameless plug: See Sherwin WIlliams HQ on the UrbanOhio Forum for more info about this riveting topic!
https://forum.urbanohio.com/topic/5088- ... /#comments

Sorry!but this does affect aviation business and possible attraction of future routes and new airline decisions based off top company’s , I’m on this forum and don’t want to be on another forum !


There are plenty of legit news sources covering this. No need to plug another forum or some guy's blog here. Also, when UrbanOhio or the blog is brought up here the thread subject moves away from aviation into skyscraper/real estate development and other total non-av issues. Feel free to go post stuff like that over there.
 
Geowizical
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:49 am

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:40 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
Robert1010 wrote:
Geowizical wrote:
Shameless plug: See Sherwin WIlliams HQ on the UrbanOhio Forum for more info about this riveting topic!
https://forum.urbanohio.com/topic/5088- ... /#comments

Sorry!but this does affect aviation business and possible attraction of future routes and new airline decisions based off top company’s , I’m on this forum and don’t want to be on another forum !


There are plenty of legit news sources covering this. No need to plug another forum or some guy's blog here. Also, when UrbanOhio or the blog is brought up here the thread subject moves away from aviation into skyscraper/real estate development and other total non-av issues. Feel free to go post stuff like that over there.


Didn't mean to continue the conversation here, it was to get people who were talking about it here to go look somewhere else for this news! Sorry if that came off in the wrong way.
 
Aspen71
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:22 am

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:27 am

And now for something completely different:

June 1977 (the Animals tour) Pink Floyd played at Cleveland Municipal Stadium. I was lucky enough to be there. No opening act, Pink Floyd was the only band. 80,000 people milling about in the stadium tossing Frisbees, etc-waiting for the show to begin.

Gradually around dusk, we all began to hear a gradually increasing noise. People started looking around for the source of the noise which kept getting louder, and louder. Just about the time the noise became a roar, a large commercial jet appeared at the east end of the stadium, and seemed to fly right over the center of the stadium extremely low. This caused a sensation to rush through the crowd.

Then just as the sound of the jet began to dissipate, we all realized that the band had entered the stage, and were playing the opening notes of their first song. (Sheep)

For years I have wondered about how this happened. Was it a departure from BKL, or CLE? Were they orbiting off the lakeshore for timing? Was it a coincidence, a freight hauler heading out that just happened to roll out over the stadium? Was it the band’s charter, and the band arraigned for the flyby? Did the FAA investigate what I assume was a violation of the FARs covering flying over populated areas?

Anyway this post is a shot in the dark. Anybody around here that has any inside knowledge of this event? I’m hoping someone that reads the CLE forum thread was in the industry at that time, and can fill in some details.
 
greenair727
Posts: 1269
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:27 am

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:51 pm

"Did the FAA investigate what I assume was a violation of the FARs covering flying over populated areas?"

Flying over Municipal Stadium in 1977, as far as I know, during an event or not, did not violate any FAA rules. I believe such restrictions were put into place after 9/11.

Sounds like a great concert--would have loved to have been there!
 
izbtmnhd
Posts: 858
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:32 pm

Geowizical wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:
Robert1010 wrote:
Sorry!but this does affect aviation business and possible attraction of future routes and new airline decisions based off top company’s , I’m on this forum and don’t want to be on another forum !


There are plenty of legit news sources covering this. No need to plug another forum or some guy's blog here. Also, when UrbanOhio or the blog is brought up here the thread subject moves away from aviation into skyscraper/real estate development and other total non-av issues. Feel free to go post stuff like that over there.


Didn't mean to continue the conversation here, it was to get people who were talking about it here to go look somewhere else for this news! Sorry if that came off in the wrong way.


No need to apologize, it's not you. This other site has been brought up before. I have no issues with the other site, just think when a subject from there is brought over here this thread wanders into the non-av area quickly.

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