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Groyd
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:02 pm

UO has an aviation news and CLE thread, and a-net is usually the best source to get CLE/av-related news. Would’ve loved to be at that concert (Animals is the best PF album imo) but I’m sure the low pass scared the shit out of the crowd of ~100K. Burke takeoff, I’d guess.
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Sep 14, 2019 4:44 pm

Another credit upgrade! Moody's upgrading CLE from A3 to A2.

"Moody’s Investors Service, one of the three major bond rating services, has announced it will upgrade Cleveland Hopkins International Airport’s bond rating for a second time in 13 months, according to the airport...."

https://www.cleveland.com/cityhall/2019 ... rport.html
 
uconn99
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:09 pm

Groyd wrote:
UO has an aviation news and CLE thread, and a-net is usually the best source to get CLE/av-related news. Would’ve loved to be at that concert (Animals is the best PF album imo) but I’m sure the low pass scared the shit out of the crowd of ~100K. Burke takeoff, I’d guess.


Animals is my favorite album! I have been lucky to see every member of Pink Floyd (Minus Syd and Nick Mason) live but never the entire band. Sorry to go off topic, but anyone who loves Pink Floyd needs to see the tribute band Brit Floyd. They are simply amazing. They began their career with the tribute band Aussie Floyd but are now the premier Floyd tribute band in the world IMO.
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:38 pm

Aren't we supposed to hear from EI around now if we are to hear from them at all? I remember hearing 'mid-September' as a date for new potential announcements.
 
avtcle
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:48 pm

Looking back at route announcements for 2016/2017, some were as late as mid October. There will have to be an announcement coming because they have yet to set a launch date for Montreal service.

In other news: United is adding a one-time nonstop flight to Las Vegas for CES 2020. It will depart January 6, 2020 with a return flight January 10, 2020.
 
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CLEguy
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:46 pm

I don't think this has been posted, but steady growth continued at CLE through July 2019 (up 4.66% YTD), other than international pax (understandably down 15.78% YTD). Looks like 10 million passengers are within reach.

https://www.clevelandairport.com/about-us/facts-figures
 
masseybrown
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:56 pm

greenair727 wrote:
Aren't we supposed to hear from EI around now if we are to hear from them at all? I remember hearing 'mid-September' as a date for new potential announcements.


It's easy to believe that IAG could be paralyzed by Brexit, wondering if this time the October 31 deadline is real. There have been reports in the financial press that IAG will not be treated post-Brexit as well as they had hoped. It seems reasonable that they (Aer Lingus, British, and Iberia) might hold route expansion in abeyance for as long as they can. 'As long as they can' is probably November, when the summer TATL slot conference results become public knowledge.

Edit: these slots aren't airport slots, they're navigation slots for the air controllers' use.
 
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mbm3
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:01 pm

avtcle wrote:
Looking back at route announcements for 2016/2017, some were as late as mid October. There will have to be an announcement coming because they have yet to set a launch date for Montreal service.

In other news: United is adding a one-time nonstop flight to Las Vegas for CES 2020. It will depart January 6, 2020 with a return flight January 10, 2020.


It's fun to see all of the point to point flights that the airlines add for CES, especially from Asia.
Let Me Tell You, Landing A 772ER Is Harder Than It Looks!
 
avtcle
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:46 pm

Air Canada Jazz will take over the CLE-YYZ route from November 4, 2019 onward.
The route stays on the CRJ100/200 but almost all Jazz CRJs are in the new livery!
 
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CLEguy
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:29 pm

Airlines to reap benefits from Cleveland Hopkins International Airport’s improved bond rating: https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2019/09 ... 3-headline
 
steeler83
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:41 pm

CLEguy wrote:
I don't think this has been posted, but steady growth continued at CLE through July 2019 (up 4.66% YTD), other than international pax (understandably down 15.78% YTD). Looks like 10 million passengers are within reach.

https://www.clevelandairport.com/about-us/facts-figures

It's looking like CLE will fare better than PIT. Due to the collapse of WW and the loss of DL's PIT-CDG service, passenger growth pretty much flat-lined - actually posted a loss (albeit a slight one) for July, which was the first time in many months that PIT posted a drop in YOY monthly passengers. YTD is still higher, but only by ~1%.

I too am rather anxious to find out if CLE will get any transatlantic service soon.
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swacle
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:10 pm

The Rams charter looks like it will be a UA 772 due in at 1535 tomorrow.
Aircraft Flown: SF3 DH8 DH4 328 ERJ CRJ CR7 CR9 E70 E75 D9S M80 712 72S 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 739ER 752 318 319 32
 
masseybrown
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:54 am

steeler83 wrote:
CLEguy wrote:
I don't think this has been posted, but steady growth continued at CLE through July 2019 (up 4.66% YTD), other than international pax (understandably down 15.78% YTD). Looks like 10 million passengers are within reach.

https://www.clevelandairport.com/about-us/facts-figures

It's looking like CLE will fare better than PIT.


Pittsburgh came out of the recession by 2013 - faster than Cleveland did. Now, especially in the last three years, Cleveland has been catching up.
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:48 am

I always look forward to Enilria's weekly OAG list to see changes for CLE. Unfortunately no changes for Cleveland listed today.
 
ncflyer
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:07 am

Same but it’s really been quiet lately for CLE. At some point it’ll get hard to keep up 4-5% growth, I don’t think up-gages alone are enough.
 
masseybrown
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:03 pm

ncflyer wrote:
Same but it’s really been quiet lately for CLE. At some point it’ll get hard to keep up 4-5% growth, I don’t think up-gages alone are enough.


Still, some of those upgages are eye-popping. In Oct, UA has three mainliners on CLE-IAD - 1 739 and 2 73Gs. They are 2.5 to 3 times bigger than the E145s they replaced. That's a LOT of capacity. On the downside it's only to a hub :mad: ; some new destinations would be more fun.
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:21 pm

^Much larger indeed. Is that just for Oct or all months, just beginning in Oct?
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:27 pm

masseybrown wrote:
ncflyer wrote:
Same but it’s really been quiet lately for CLE. At some point it’ll get hard to keep up 4-5% growth, I don’t think up-gages alone are enough.


Still, some of those upgages are eye-popping. In Oct, UA has three mainliners on CLE-IAD - 1 739 and 2 73Gs. They are 2.5 to 3 times bigger than the E145s they replaced. That's a LOT of capacity. On the downside it's only to a hub :mad: ; some new destinations would be more fun.


Image

UA had 3x daily mainline last October, 3 of which were B738s
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avtcle
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:36 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
masseybrown wrote:
ncflyer wrote:
Same but it’s really been quiet lately for CLE. At some point it’ll get hard to keep up 4-5% growth, I don’t think up-gages alone are enough.


Still, some of those upgages are eye-popping. In Oct, UA has three mainliners on CLE-IAD - 1 739 and 2 73Gs. They are 2.5 to 3 times bigger than the E145s they replaced. That's a LOT of capacity. On the downside it's only to a hub :mad: ; some new destinations would be more fun.


Image

UA had 3x daily mainline last October, 3 of which were B738s


UA is scheduling 3x daily 737s on its CLE-IAD route for the foreseeable future — that’s the significance of this upgrade. Typically the 3x daily would only operate in October, now those 2 additional mainline flights will operate year round. That’s over 500 additional seats on most days. United is also adding a 2nd Saturday flight to MCO beginning October 5th, a 2nd Saturday flight to RSW beginning November 2nd, and is expanding service to FLL to year round.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:39 pm

avtcle wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
masseybrown wrote:

Still, some of those upgages are eye-popping. In Oct, UA has three mainliners on CLE-IAD - 1 739 and 2 73Gs. They are 2.5 to 3 times bigger than the E145s they replaced. That's a LOT of capacity. On the downside it's only to a hub :mad: ; some new destinations would be more fun.


Image

UA had 3x daily mainline last October, 3 of which were B738s


UA is scheduling 3x daily 737s on its CLE-IAD route for the foreseeable future — that’s the significance of this upgrade. Typically the 3x daily would only operate in October, now those 2 additional mainline flights will operate year round. That’s over 500 additional seats on most days. United is also adding a 2nd Saturday flight to MCO beginning October 5th, a 2nd Saturday flight to RSW beginning November 2nd, and is expanding service to FLL to year round.


I was only responding to what they said about the B737s being replacements for E145s in the October schedule.
Nov shows no mainline on CLE-IAD, until Thanksgiving, then goes back 3x 737 in December, then no mainline in Jan, then 2x 737 in Feb. After February, UA's schedule is a place holder though, so nothing can really be gleaned from that.

I am sure there are upguages elsewhere, just pointing out the previous service on the route
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ncflyer
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:52 pm

UA is 8 of 9 mainline to ORD right now. I’m not able to look right now to see if that continues but it’s a higher % mainline than it has been, I remember 5 of 8 or 6 of 9. I wonder if more mainline aircraft are being put to use in the shoulder season between summer peak and winter Florida season.

On the other hand it’s a bummer that 2x daily to sfo is seasonal. Going double daily year round got some fanfare from UA sometime in the past year but it didn’t last long at all.
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:59 pm

yeah, i'm really disappointed that UA doesn't keep at least 2-3x daily for SFO. I've talked to colleagues and people who flew here and they had to connect somewhere as they couldn't get a nonstop. 1x is really crazy and certainly way below demand. If that one non-stop is full, people then fly AA or DL, and UA just lost the market as there's no reason to fly UA over other carriers--esp. if they are loyal to other carriers.
 
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CLEguy
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:06 am

Disappointed that there has been no transatlantic announcement for CLE yet. I have a feeling there will be nothing coming soon, although I sure hope I am wrong. By the way, KLM just announced AUS-AMS starting next summer. That will make 4 transatlantic routes for AUS (LHR, LGW, FRA, and AMS).
 
avtcle
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:12 am

CLE certainly wasn’t in the cards for KLM, so don’t be surprised by that! No airline that CLE has a shot of getting service from — (mainly Aer Lingus, Icelandair) — has yet to make an announcement yet. Patience is key!
 
Runway28L
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:29 am

Looks like AA had an A321neo sub in for an A319 on DFW-CLE-DFW this afternoon.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flight/AA1541
 
klm617
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:20 am

avtcle wrote:
CLE certainly wasn’t in the cards for KLM, so don’t be surprised by that! No airline that CLE has a shot of getting service from — (mainly Aer Lingus, Icelandair) — has yet to make an announcement yet. Patience is key!


Yes and there is still hope as EI still has not added the YUL flights for 2020 into their system. Was wondering today how practical a KEF-DTW-CLE-KEF routing would be for FI. Certainly seems viable to capture both markets plus it takes a bit of pressure of both markets to come up with enough customers.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:48 am

CLEguy wrote:
Disappointed that there has been no transatlantic announcement for CLE yet. I have a feeling there will be nothing coming soon, although I sure hope I am wrong. By the way, KLM just announced AUS-AMS starting next summer. That will make 4 transatlantic routes for AUS (LHR, LGW, FRA, and AMS).


This just underscores how Kennedy is failing in Cleveland. But Mayor Jackson doesn't give a crap about air service--and Kennedy already threatened to leave before and the mayor begged him to stay, as the story goes, as it was a month before the election--so there appears to be no job pressure on Kennedy to do his job.
 
Jshank83
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:57 am

klm617 wrote:
avtcle wrote:
CLE certainly wasn’t in the cards for KLM, so don’t be surprised by that! No airline that CLE has a shot of getting service from — (mainly Aer Lingus, Icelandair) — has yet to make an announcement yet. Patience is key!


Yes and there is still hope as EI still has not added the YUL flights for 2020 into their system. Was wondering today how practical a KEF-DTW-CLE-KEF routing would be for FI. Certainly seems viable to capture both markets plus it takes a bit of pressure of both markets to come up with enough customers.


El is having airframe delivery delays. Which is probably why YUL isn't loaded yet. They don't know a start date. Probably also means it will restrict their adds.
 
ncflyer
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:10 am

greenair727 wrote:
This just underscores how Kennedy is failing in Cleveland. But Mayor Jackson doesn't give a crap about air service--and Kennedy already threatened to leave before and the mayor begged him to stay, as the story goes, as it was a month before the election--so there appears to be no job pressure on Kennedy to do his job.


And— clearly there’s not a whole lot of pressure to pick a vendor for master facility planning. Quote in PD that selection would be made by end of 18, and another quote of same by end of August. Business community doesn’t seem to be applying any pressure.
 
joeman
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:35 am

Seems to me EI was maybe the now forgotten about and practical guarantee by Kennedy of a "mainland" Europe destination awhile back. Speculation at the time soon turned into typical a.netter debate of mainland vs. a hunk of close by island (like England) probably more so when our non-local friends needed to look down. Who knows, maybe I'd make condescending comments in other dedicated city threads if CLE had anything really unique to brag about, don't think so. Near lowest regional airfares by a couple bucks or an upgage in more seats to overcrowded hubs? It's interesting that 1 or 2 PIT based a.netters make occasional positive and realistic comments and comparisons to CLE both in their own thread and this one, just as I and a few of us CLE people have. I find most of the rest of non-CLE based input/comparison to be not so much, usually feigned positive contribution.

So for me, we ad both FI (year round, seasonal, later start, 737max issues, cancellation) and EI (can't find a plane and/or never really serious) to the list of CLE "was gonna but" service improvements. Hopefully not forever. Go Browns and hoping Sherwin Williams doesn't go somewhere there's a lot better air transportation. lol
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:31 am

joeman wrote:
Seems to me EI was maybe the now forgotten about and practical guarantee by Kennedy of a "mainland" Europe destination awhile back. Speculation at the time soon turned into typical a.netter debate of mainland vs. a hunk of close by island (like England) probably more so when our non-local friends needed to look down. Who knows, maybe I'd make condescending comments in other dedicated city threads if CLE had anything really unique to brag about, don't think so. Near lowest regional airfares by a couple bucks or an upgage in more seats to overcrowded hubs? It's interesting that 1 or 2 PIT based a.netters make occasional positive and realistic comments and comparisons to CLE both in their own thread and this one, just as I and a few of us CLE people have. I find most of the rest of non-CLE based input/comparison to be not so much, usually feigned positive contribution.


:D
 
avtcle
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:06 pm

Can’t just focus on the negative or else it’s never gonna seem like anything good is happening! They somehow pulled off getting both WOW and Icelandair so I wouldn’t count anything out.
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:19 pm

joeman wrote:
Seems to me EI was maybe the now forgotten about and practical guarantee by Kennedy of a "mainland" Europe destination awhile back. Speculation at the time soon turned into typical a.netter debate of mainland vs. a hunk of close by island (like England) probably more so when our non-local friends needed to look down. Who knows, maybe I'd make condescending comments in other dedicated city threads if CLE had anything really unique to brag about, don't think so. Near lowest regional airfares by a couple bucks or an upgage in more seats to overcrowded hubs? It's interesting that 1 or 2 PIT based a.netters make occasional positive and realistic comments and comparisons to CLE both in their own thread and this one, just as I and a few of us CLE people have. I find most of the rest of non-CLE based input/comparison to be not so much, usually feigned positive contribution.

So for me, we ad both FI (year round, seasonal, later start, 737max issues, cancellation) and EI (can't find a plane and/or never really serious) to the list of CLE "was gonna but" service improvements. Hopefully not forever. Go Browns and hoping Sherwin Williams doesn't go somewhere there's a lot better air transportation. lol


Nothing will beat when CLE landed WW/FI and some a.nutters (yes, plural) started arguing Iceland was not a part of Europe (it's only part of the EU, but whatever) and didn't count as TATL. Mind you, this subject was never brought up until CLE landed KEF service. What I've learned is this forum can wander into the very strange so I just let it go.

As for Kennedy, CLE is still growing at decent clip when places like CVG and PIT are definitely slowing down. While, I'd love to see CLE score a TATL flight again, I think getting butts into the airport and driving down CPE costs down are more important issues and are currently happening on both fronts.
 
masseybrown
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 3:21 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
As for Kennedy, CLE is still growing at decent clip when places like CVG and PIT are definitely slowing down.


CLE is growing, I think, because regional disposable income is growing. If you notice, Cleveland's receipts from its income tax are up 50% in two years. Yes, there was a tax rate hike, but it wasn't 50%, thank God. What this says is that, while Cleveland's population is stagnant, the new/young residents have MUCH higher incomes than the folks leaving/dying. $30K decrepit housing is being replaced with $300K and up housing in several parts of the city. The suburbs are doing as well or better, it's just not as obvious. This greater affluence definitely shows up in airline ticket sales, even if a very significant number are on discount airlines.

I am extremely optimistic for the city - of course I always have been - but lately there are more and more hard numbers to justify it.

Look at the company CLE is keeping with the added UA flights to Vegas for CES: "The additional flights to the CES will operate from key United hubs. United also is adding new point-to-point service from six non-hub cities, including, Orlando, Florida; Nashville, Tennessee; Fort Lauderdale, Florida; San Jose, California; Cleveland and Boston."

(I also like the fact that Cleveland does not require the addition of 'Ohio' to indicate which city they're talking about.)

https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/new ... yptr=yahoo
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:44 pm

^I agree. More LCC/ULCC pax is not really that impressive and they have nothing to do with any success of Kennedy--its the overall economy and airlines want to make money. So while other places get TATL service---a 4th to Austin!?--Cleveland can't even get LHR or AMS. A halfway decent airport director would have secured this, as CLE is like 3-4M people and with many employers and established demand of over 200pax PDEW to Europe. As I said before I think Kennedy has completely given up after he tried unsuccessfully to quit. Apparently, he couldn't manage that either. Do nothing, collect $200k/yr. Not a bad deal if you don't care about the community you're screwing.
 
joeman
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:24 pm

avtcle wrote:
Can’t just focus on the negative or else it’s never gonna seem like anything good is happening! They somehow pulled off getting both WOW and Icelandair so I wouldn’t count anything out.

I sincerely agree, am NOT a pessimistic person, and recognize lots of tremendous good at CLE and the region. Wish there wouldn't be occasional leaks of imminent service adds, like MCI a couple years ago and the "mainland" Europe thing if they aren't about to happen within a quarter of a decade or more...lol
 
Trk1
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:55 pm

The airport debt is going down. That will allow for $$$ for rehab. Forum members are a repeat record on European service. It it comes fine if not
we will get by just fine. One non-stop to Europe if it is not LHR is not really that helpful. If you have to connect anyway--not great advantage if it is in Europe or IAD.
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:53 pm

Trk1 wrote:
...Forum members are a repeat record on European service. It it comes fine if not we will get by just fine. One non-stop to Europe if it is not LHR is not really that helpful. If you have to connect anyway--not great advantage if it is in Europe or IAD.


"if not we will get by just fine."

No, we won't. Cities must compete or die. Pittsburgh is doing way better than us, and in part, because they have European service. And even now Indy has it. If we don't get TATL soon we'll become irrelevant. Columbus understands this---that's why they're trying so hard to get it. If we tried as hard, given that we're a bigger economy and population--we'd have it already. If Columbus gets a route before we do, we'll be completely screwed as that carrier would expect Clevelanders to drive 2 hours south instead Columbus people driving north. But City Hall doesn't give a crap and Kennedy either doesn't care either or is not competent. His air service manager is certainly not competent, but Kennedy doesn't replace him. And the business community doesn't hold Jackson or Kennedy accountable, nor do the flying public. If we don't get real TATL service soon, we will not be 'just fine.'
 
ncflyer
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:57 am

If Sherwin Williams moves to a city that has better air service that will say it all. I don’t think they’ll leave but Cleveland’s been stunned many times before.

Don’t underestimate the degree to which Columbus state government hurts cleveland again and again and again. Unlike Indy the state does nothing, not a thing, to help air service. It hurts Ohio cities that there are three big ones, rather than one that gets all the love like in GA MA IN IL and more.

I don’t necessarily agree that PIT air service is in a better place. The two airports are the same size, more or less only have Hub to hub flying, and PIT throws a lot of money down the toilet— Onejet being an egregious example.
 
klm617
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:05 am

greenair727 wrote:
Trk1 wrote:
...Forum members are a repeat record on European service. It it comes fine if not we will get by just fine. One non-stop to Europe if it is not LHR is not really that helpful. If you have to connect anyway--not great advantage if it is in Europe or IAD.


"if not we will get by just fine."

No, we won't. Cities must compete or die. Pittsburgh is doing way better than us, and in part, because they have European service. And even now Indy has it. If we don't get TATL soon we'll become irrelevant. Columbus understands this---that's why they're trying so hard to get it. If we tried as hard, given that we're a bigger economy and population--we'd have it already. If Columbus gets a route before we do, we'll be completely screwed as that carrier would expect Clevelanders to drive 2 hours south instead Columbus people driving north. But City Hall doesn't give a crap and Kennedy either doesn't care either or is not competent. His air service manager is certainly not competent, but Kennedy doesn't replace him. And the business community doesn't hold Jackson or Kennedy accountable, nor do the flying public. If we don't get real TATL service soon, we will not be 'just fine.'



But I have to agree the goal of CLE should be to land a London link. If the state is going to write a big check then go for what makes the most sense a London flight and not a band aid like EI and FI that has already shown us they will run.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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CLEguy
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:23 pm

 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:42 pm

If you look at the cities that got best and worst in each category, it seems better to be in the company of the worst cities---NYC, Chicago, Washington----than the 'best' ones. Also, its pretty meaningless. So LGA is "worst"---so what? Are people going to stop using it and go to Charlotte instead?
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:30 pm

ULCC/LCC or not, the best way improve airport finances and get CPE in line is to drive O&D growth. CLE management is doing an excellent job of this compared to non-hub regional peers. I'm not going to shortchange them from this because almost everyone on here wants TATL.

As for TATL, sure it can attract companies but Cleveland has additional issues which keeps it's economy sluggish. Detroit has tons of international service to Europe and Asia, yet their region has many of the same problems as Cleveland. For some reason leaders in both places struggle to make meaningful changes to attract business and drive provincial narratives ("Cleveland vs. the World") when the rest of the globe is becoming more interconnected. It's not a good look from someone looking to invest from somewhere else IMHO.

As for getting someone new, who would appoint them? Mayor-for-life Jackson? Do you really think he can select a 'game changer'?

The last thing CLE needs is someone like previous Director Mok, who was straight-up shaking down airport concessionaires during the CO hub days.

Also, I'm reserving judgment on FI until the MAX issue is sorted out. I have a feeling they may come back. This being said, 4x weekly service to KEF isn't going to drive business.
 
izbtmnhd
Posts: 875
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:54 pm

CLEguy wrote:


Looking at this list, I believe CLE would move up from Medium to Large with 2-3 more years of 5% growth. I'm thinking the transition is around 11 million pax served annually. Would not be second to the bottom of the list there.
 
greenair727
Posts: 1299
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:27 am

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:05 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
...The last thing CLE needs is someone like previous Director Mok, who was straight-up shaking down airport concessionaires during the CO hub days.....


Interesting. What was Mok doing--could you expand on this? I hadn't heard about this before.
 
izbtmnhd
Posts: 875
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:32 pm

greenair727 wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:
...The last thing CLE needs is someone like previous Director Mok, who was straight-up shaking down airport concessionaires during the CO hub days.....


Interesting. What was Mok doing--could you expand on this? I hadn't heard about this before.


When Ricky Smith took over from Mok in the mid-2000s he started investigating the finances of the airport and found a lot of irregularities which he fixed. I know Mok was overcharging concessionaries as well but I can't find the article. TBH, even with all the resources of the Web, pre-smartphone era news articles are getting harder and harder to find or maybe I just don't know the secret to find them.

Hopkins finds, but won't detail, more odd work
Tuesday, March 13, 2007

Michael O'Malley

Plain Dealer Reporter

An internal review at Cleveland Hopkins International Airport has found numerous cases of improper business practices and oversights relating to outside contractors, the airport reported Monday.

But after issuing a news release, airport officials refused to disclose details about the review. They even kept the details from Councilman Kevin Kelley, chairman of the City Council committee that oversees the airport.

"This is bizarre," Kelley said in a telephone interview. "I've got no information. I don't know what the big secret is."

Airport Director Ricky Smith's prepared media statement said a special airport review committee "uncovered numerous cases of improper procurement and business practices" at the airport. The statement said the problems spanned the "last few years."

The news release said contractors and consultants did work without authorization, expired leases continued under old rates and property taxes were "improperly billed." But the statement did not disclose the number of contractors or their names. It did not reveal the depth of the problems or say how much money was lost.

Smith did not return telephone calls Monday. Pat Smith, who was listed on the news release as a contact, said The Plain Dealer would need to file a records request with the city Law Department to obtain more details about the news release.

Kelley, following questions by The Plain Dealer, caught up with Smith during a council committee meeting Monday afternoon. Kelley said Smith told him there was no report on the findings.
 
steeler83
Posts: 7640
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:41 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
CLEguy wrote:


Looking at this list, I believe CLE would move up from Medium to Large with 2-3 more years of 5% growth. I'm thinking the transition is around 11 million pax served annually. Would not be second to the bottom of the list there.

I'd say PIT appears to be on that 2-3 year trajectory given how things hit a wall more or less due to WW folding and DL axing PIT-CDG. The criteria is actually 10 million annual passengers. Another 5% growth would put CLE at just over 10 million pax if not this coming year then next year for sure should this growth continue.
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
N766UA
Posts: 8228
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 1999 3:50 am

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:17 pm

CLEguy wrote:


As someone who visits multiple airports of all sizes across the country several times a day, I can confidently say CLE is the worst-run airport in the nation. Some places have worse facilities (none have worse bathrooms,) some are obviously worse for delays, but Cleveland seems to be the worst by far at making senseless, boneheaded decisions (i.e. ground transportation, parking) while simultaneously having absolutely zero foresight or plan. The customer experience is sorely lacking but nobody seems to care; they’re too busy touting their bond rating.
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5384
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:25 pm

CLEguy wrote:


Over the years my observation has been that organizations which hire JD Powers as a consultant fare better in their surveys than those that don't. I'm not trying to make an excuse for poor performance, just noting the subjectivity of the 'survey'.

As the last poster noted, the bathrooms have been a complaint for 20 years. Personally, I've never found a problem but many others have. I once asked somebody why CLE doesn't contract out the cleaning staff and got the answer that since the sewers shifted to county management, the airport is the last great patronage pool left for the city government to splash around in and they will NEVER give it up. If true, this limits what the CLE management can accomplish. Where does the root of the problem lie? In the CLE offices or in City Hall? Nobody wants to address it.
 
avtcle
Posts: 145
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:21 am

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:14 pm

Geez everybody. If Cleveland was “the worst run airport in the country” (N766UA^^) then I could say with confidence that it wouldn’t be on a 5 year passenger growth streak of 5% YOY. I fly out of CLE at least 3x per year and these complaints and problems are blown WAY out of proportion. Yes, the airport leadership certainly has problems, but the airport is fine. There’s people to help you everywhere, it’s clean and I’ve never had a problem with the bathroom. Folks who want to trash CLE can make their own forum for that — we don’t need that here. Hopkins definitely needs improvements in infrastructure and leadership, yet theres people here acticing like it’s falling apart. Enough.

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