joeman
Posts: 833
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 11:55 am

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:24 pm

Survey scores samples: Cleveland........................ 755
Best peer- Indianapolis....833 - 755/833 = 90.6%
national average..............762 - 755/762 = 99%

I'm not getting too excited over that. There was a time an airport was only a point of departure and arrival for airline passengers complete with a snack bar and gift shop with newspapers, magazines, candy bars, local post cards and t-shirts for last minute loved one thoughts. Seems now facilities need to be be aesthetically captivating complete with fine dining and shopping, maybe a spa...why not throw in a concert hall and casino since gambling has broken out everywhere?

On CLE bathroom situation - as a close by local, I've rarely needed to use the facilities so can't really make an objective comment on cleanliness upkeep. I know I've come across slop in other unexpected venues of all kinds regardless of locale on occasion. Maybe the filthy pigs expecting their butts kissed and diapers changed on a regular basis should contribute to cleaning up a little after themselves. Doesn't matter, those kind pull the same "crap" in any restaurant, hotel or venue of any kind. So I'm all for tackling that apparently consistent problem if really true.

On the surface,there definitely seems to me some baffling to me customer service "improvements" over time. Personally, I hope the airport will focus on passenger convenience, cleanliness, and service development.
 
klm617
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:37 pm

avtcle wrote:
Geez everybody. If Cleveland was “the worst run airport in the country” (N766UA^^) then I could say with confidence that it wouldn’t be on a 5 year passenger growth streak of 5% YOY. I fly out of CLE at least 3x per year and these complaints and problems are blown WAY out of proportion. Yes, the airport leadership certainly has problems, but the airport is fine. There’s people to help you everywhere, it’s clean and I’ve never had a problem with the bathroom. Folks who want to trash CLE can make their own forum for that — we don’t need that here. Hopkins definitely needs improvements in infrastructure and leadership, yet theres people here acticing like it’s falling apart. Enough.


Could you imagine where CLE would be with proactive management. It is at 5% now. With the right amount of direction and a little bit of a critical thinking mind set lord only knows how much growth CLE could generate. Also how much of the 5% growth is tied to the draw down of service at CAK and folks now making the drive to CLE again to get better customer choice as far as convivence and price.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
masseybrown
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:51 pm

Getting away from bathrooms ... there's some interest in the "Irish 9/19" thread.

It appears the A321LR has some performance problems wind and weather related with DUB's relatively short 8650 ft runway on DUB-BDL at MTOW. They are apparently going to put a 757 back on the route for now. If they are having trouble westbound with BDL (2675 nm), CLE (3012 nm) would be worse. A runway extension in 2021 will solve the problem; but that would probably mean nothing for CLE before 2021, at the least.
 
masseybrown
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:51 pm

Getting away from bathrooms ... there's some interest in the "Irish 9/19" thread.

It appears the A321LR has some performance problems wind and weather related with DUB's relatively short 8650 ft runway on DUB-BDL at MTOW. They are apparently going to put a 757 back on the route for now. If they are having trouble westbound with BDL (2675 nm), CLE (3012 nm) would be worse. A runway extension in 2021 will solve the problem; but that would probably mean nothing for CLE before 2021, at the least.
 
joeman
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:30 pm

Don't know if EI has serious interest to enter CLE as soon as possible, at all, or precluding maybe/maybe FI competition, but looks like we can add the above to the "was gonna but" stack at least for now to temper enthusiast angst.
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:37 pm

Passenger growth and airport experience are two separate things. For example, eight years ago, Hopkins was mostly the same experience but pax volume was shrinking at 5-10% Y-O-Y due to UA downsizing the hub.

We can debate how JDPower ranks these airports but one consistent thing is places like CLE and LGA rank around the bottom half year-after-year. I don't think the passenger experience should be wholly dismissed here because some, personally, feel the facility is up-to-par.
 
ncflyer
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:17 pm

The issues with CLE bathrooms isn’t the cleanliness it is the design. Undersized and poorly ventilated. Compare a bathroom at Your local cineplex to a bathroom at Hopkins and tell me which one is more spacious and better ventilated. and it gets worse if you compare to a modern airport such as— heck CAK. I give the cleaning staff much credit considering what they have to work with.
 
ncflyer
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:41 pm

I often point this out maybe those of you interested know to check it but the comments on the Cleveland.com J.D. Powers ranking are as plentiful-- and divergent-- as a CLE airport article that I've seen. Over 250 comments last I checked. Worth a read if you're interested in some wider viewpoints. Some junk but some very thoughtful viewpoints too. I'm glad people care.

Here's a link again so that it's in one place.

https://www.cleveland.com/business/2019 ... power.html
 
avtcle
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 29, 2019 2:33 pm

All good news for CLE in the weekly OAG thread!
Here's an overview:

-SWA is putting CLE-PHX back to daily beginning in March through the schedule extension. Will be interested to see if this remains or if they'll put it back to weekend only for the summer.

-SWA increasing frequency for flights to DEN, MKE, TPA, MCO and STL in March. (3 flights to MCO on Saturdays!)

-JetBlue is adding a 5th daily flight to BOS beginning in May, and much to my surprise, FLL is sticking around despite new Frontier service, and United now flying year-round.

-UA is keeping SFO at 2x daily for December as usual -- will return to 1x daily in January and 2x daily will return in March.
 
CleSyrRoc
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 29, 2019 2:40 pm

Per Enrila's weekly OAG update,

- B6 is adding a frequency on the BOS route in March
- WN's schedule extension assuming the MAX is available has some good news and bad news:
WN ATL-CLE MAR 0.4>1.7[1.8] APR 0>0.7[1.9]
WN BNA-CLE MAR 0.4>2[2] APR 0>0.9[3]
WN BWI-CLE MAR 0.6>3[3] APR 0>1.2[3]
WN CLE-DEN MAR 0.2>1.7[1.0] APR 0>0.8[1.0]
WN CLE-LAS MAR 0.0>0.3[1.0]
WN CLE-MCO MAR 0.0>0.5[0.3] APR 0>0.3[0.2]
WN CLE-MDW MAR 0.8>4[4] APR 0>1.9[4]
WN CLE-MKE MAR 0.4>1.6[1.5] APR 0>0.7[1.6]
WN CLE-PHX MAR 0.0>1.1[1.9] APR 0>0.6[1.4]
WN CLE-STL MAR 0.5>3[1.8] APR 0>1.1[2.0]
WN CLE-TPA MAR 0.0>0.3[0.1]
 
avtcle
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 29, 2019 2:43 pm

Keep in mind that April numbers will be skewed, because SWA only has flights bookable through April 13, 2020. The full month has not yet been loaded.

For Example: CLE-ATL, though showing (0.7) will run 2x daily through the current April schedule. However being that only half the month is loaded, it will appear to be at a lower frequency than it actually is.
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 29, 2019 2:49 pm

^Thanks for that. I was wondering why April was looking so bad compared to March and compared to April last year.
 
CleSyrRoc
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 29, 2019 2:55 pm

Good point, was mainly posting that for people to look at March. Probably should have taken the April out.
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 29, 2019 4:21 pm

CleSyrRoc wrote:
Per Enrila's weekly OAG update,

....B6 is adding a frequency on the BOS route in March....


I wish B6 would have added JFK and SFO.....at least SFO.
 
ncflyer
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:39 pm

Avtcle and all— B6 will have four daily in March, not five. I just did a dummy booking. That’s a return to what they had in early summer 2019.
 
avtcle
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:43 pm

JetBlue 5th daily CLE-BOS flight begins in May, as I wrote in my original post
 
CleSyrRoc
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 29, 2019 11:10 pm

The fifth frequency in May exists...at least according to a dummy booking on Monday May 11th. Five nonstop options CLE-BOS on B6.
 
ncflyer
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:18 am

Ahhh ok my bad on the 5th to BOS. Delta really brings out the competitive juices in B6, wonder if NK will return.
 
masseybrown
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 30, 2019 3:59 pm

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1430457&p=21694073#p21693191

Hmm ... Aer Lingus is *NOT* starting YUL-DUB as previously planned. I have no idea what this might mean for CLE-DUB prospects.
 
avtcle
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:29 pm

There’s been no official statement from Aer Lingus that this is actually accurate....

If it is true, perhaps bookings were weak for previous 2019 start and they used the A321LR partly as an excuse to exit the market. They must have seen opportunity arise elsewhere, because even with the delivery delays, they’ll have plenty of their 321LRs by next summer.
 
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CLEguy
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:18 pm

Looks like Icelandair is canceling MCI (eff. 9/15/19) and SFO (eff. 1/5/20) citing "commercial reasons." Neither of those routes use the 737 Max, so I'm not sure what if any implications there might be for CLE returning next summer.
 
avtcle
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:31 pm

Certainly an interesting development — I remember a few weeks ago Enrila had said that Icelandair would be in a sense “swapping” Kansas City and Cleveland — so next year Kansas City would be the one to get the green light if the MAX came back, and Cleveland would take its place regardless of the status of the MAX.

Nevertheless, Icelandair is going to have a lot of extra metal when the 737 MAX is back in service, after axing San Francisco, Tampa, Baltimore, Kansas City, Cleveland and Halifax.
 
Jshank83
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:07 am

CLEguy wrote:
Looks like Icelandair is canceling MCI (eff. 9/15/19) and SFO (eff. 1/5/20) citing "commercial reasons." Neither of those routes use the 737 Max, so I'm not sure what if any implications there might be for CLE returning next summer.


MCI was supposed to be on the MAX but
wasn’t since the MAX is grounded.
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:58 pm

And MCI was only 3x/week---so probably not hard to fill the plane. Perhaps FI is having other issues? The Max grounding certainly hurt their revenue stream. Were Max8 pilots and flight attendants laid off /furloughed or are they only paid when they fly anyway (like US airlines) so there's no personnel cost hit? Is Boeing making some kind of monthly payment to airlines affected by the grounding?
 
avtcle
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:39 pm

MCI loads were poor — worse than Cleveland’s. And remember, Icelandair was competing with WOW in Cleveland, who was at 4x weekly through October — they had a monopoly at MCI and still preformed poorly at a lower frequency. Icelandair says they are currently evaluating new, more profitable “gateway cities” for summer 2020. Perhaps we will be one of them.

To compare both 2018 seasons:

Kansas City (2x weekly Boeing 757)
May: 50%
June: 71%
July: 72%
August: 64%
September: 68% (only 4 flights in September)

Cleveland (5x weekly Boeing 737 MAX)
May: 82%
June: 85%
July: 71%
August: 66%
September: 59%
October: 45% (to be fair, it’s Iceland and it’s fall...WOW also offered $69.00 flights from CLE to KEF for the entirety of October.)
 
fun2fly
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:08 pm

A chance to be heard? cleveland.com poll on CLE airport.

https://www.cleveland.com/business/2019 ... aders.html
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:16 pm

^or not. The article says, "Please take my 2-minute survey." yet give no link for such.
 
Jshank83
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:17 pm

avtcle wrote:
MCI loads were poor — worse than Cleveland’s. And remember, Icelandair was competing with WOW in Cleveland, who was at 4x weekly through October — they had a monopoly at MCI and still preformed poorly at a lower frequency. Icelandair says they are currently evaluating new, more profitable “gateway cities” for summer 2020. Perhaps we will be one of them.

To compare both 2018 seasons:

Kansas City (2x weekly Boeing 757)
May: 50%
June: 71%
July: 72%
August: 64%
September: 68% (only 4 flights in September)

Cleveland (5x weekly Boeing 737 MAX)
May: 82%
June: 85%
July: 71%
August: 66%
September: 59%
October: 45% (to be fair, it’s Iceland and it’s fall...WOW also offered $69.00 flights from CLE to KEF for the entirety of October.)


MCI was 3 times a week in 2018.
 
avtcle
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:57 pm

greenair727 wrote:
^or not. The article says, "Please take my 2-minute survey." yet give no link for such.


I had same problem. I had to reopen page a couple times and it popped up within the article.
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:45 am

^Finally got it---had to try 3 different browsers. Was curious to see what questions would be asked. Was severely disappointed in what i found---two questions. the second asked people to rank terminal priorities (bathrooms, parking, etc.). And the 1st question was open ended--'Need a new terminal or should we update the existing one? with a text box for the reply. That's it. At least they didn't ask about the silly tile floor like they usually do--they or the city used to ask about that over anything about air service. This PD survey didn't mention air service or destinations at all.
 
avtcle
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:46 am

enilria wrote:
ncflyer wrote:
CLEguy wrote:

Is this just speculation or has this been confirmed?


I’m taking this as a no. Second time it’s been asked with no response.

Doing the OAG thread I get a lot of PMs from airline management, and FI told me that CLE is suspended only as long as the MAX isn't flying and as of now they expect it to return for Summer 2020, but if the MAX still isn't flying that's a different story. It is not presently for sale probably because of the unsettled MAX situation.

EDIT: Regarding this thread, that makes me wonder if they are considering swapping MCI and CLE, so that MCI becomes the market that only flies if the MAX does and CLE is green-lighted?


Being that MCI just got the chop, I’m wondering if this comment by Enrila is actually coming to frutation. Perhaps they’re preparing to give CLE the “green light”? Enrila isn’t known to be wrong! One can only hope, right?
 
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CLEguy
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:54 am

greenair727 wrote:
^Finally got it---had to try 3 different browsers. Was curious to see what questions would be asked. Was severely disappointed in what i found---two questions. the second asked people to rank terminal priorities (bathrooms, parking, etc.). And the 1st question was open ended--'Need a new terminal or should we update the existing one? with a text box for the reply. That's it. At least they didn't ask about the silly tile floor like they usually do--they or the city used to ask about that over anything about air service. This PD survey didn't mention air service or destinations at all.


The survey was clearly billed a a quick 2-minute survey to get the conversation started about the airport's capital needs: "Keep in mind, the master plan will focus on capital needs, not air service. That’s a conversation for another day." See the accompanying article by Susan Glaser here: https://www.cleveland.com/business/2019 ... rport.html. As usual, there are already hundreds of comments. At least the conversation about significant changes to CLE's infrastructure has started!
 
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enilria
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:12 pm

avtcle wrote:
enilria wrote:
ncflyer wrote:

I’m taking this as a no. Second time it’s been asked with no response.

Doing the OAG thread I get a lot of PMs from airline management, and FI told me that CLE is suspended only as long as the MAX isn't flying and as of now they expect it to return for Summer 2020, but if the MAX still isn't flying that's a different story. It is not presently for sale probably because of the unsettled MAX situation.

EDIT: Regarding this thread, that makes me wonder if they are considering swapping MCI and CLE, so that MCI becomes the market that only flies if the MAX does and CLE is green-lighted?


Being that MCI just got the chop, I’m wondering if this comment by Enrila is actually coming to frutation. Perhaps they’re preparing to give CLE the “green light”? Enrila isn’t known to be wrong! One can only hope, right?

Could be, or the fleet situation is worsening at FI. They probably have 757s due for heavy maintenance that must be parked.
 
masseybrown
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:09 pm

avtcle wrote:
enilria wrote:
ncflyer wrote:

I’m taking this as a no. Second time it’s been asked with no response.

Doing the OAG thread I get a lot of PMs from airline management, and FI told me that CLE is suspended only as long as the MAX isn't flying and as of now they expect it to return for Summer 2020, but if the MAX still isn't flying that's a different story. It is not presently for sale probably because of the unsettled MAX situation.

EDIT: Regarding this thread, that makes me wonder if they are considering swapping MCI and CLE, so that MCI becomes the market that only flies if the MAX does and CLE is green-lighted?


Being that MCI just got the chop, I’m wondering if this comment by Enrila is actually coming to frutation. Perhaps they’re preparing to give CLE the “green light”? Enrila isn’t known to be wrong! One can only hope, right?


Looking back at the numbers, WW and FI carried a hair under 51,000 CLE-KEF pax both ways during the 4 1/2 months their flights operated. That's 188 boardings a day on average. Let's say without WW competition FI will charge a bit more, somewhat reducing demand. Even then, if FI should operate 4 or 5 departures a week next summer, they'd be looking at 100% loads using a 160 pax MAX8 (at least seasonally, assuming the novelty of Iceland hasn't worn off for area travelers). That sounds like a pretty good case for restoring the flight.
 
avtcle
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:23 pm

My thoughts exactly — not only did these flights stimulate some great demand for folks fly to Iceland but they managed to get a sizable connecting base as well ^
 
fun2fly
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:39 pm

avtcle wrote:
My thoughts exactly — not only did these flights stimulate some great demand for folks fly to Iceland but they managed to get a sizable connecting base as well ^


If you think about it, that type of demand to a more desirable business or leisure location surely points out that a daily x 6 mos and 4-5 weekly x 6 mos route is feasible. It will be interesting to see how BA does in PIT. Fingers crossed for 2020 for CLE.

Separately, I still have a hard time believing that the master plan consultant is not picked. Any ideas what's the hold up at CLE or City Hall? It's an amazing amount of bureaucracy. Holding this up 3-4 months surely highlights CLE's real challenge, the City itself. You'd think that the Greater Cleveland Partnership or something could speed this along.
 
ncflyer
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:16 pm

Excellent points on KEF-- makes me a feel optimistic, even if the Iceland tourism bubble has popped a bit.

I have no insights on the delay in picking the consultant but I'm bummed that Crain's or PD hasn't picked up on this story-- especially since there are quotes in the PD that a vendor would be picked by end of 2018, and again by end of August.

To me a major underlying cause is a business community that is not putting any visible pressure on the city/airport to improve the facility. Granted Cleveland has bigger problems but I'd like to hope the region can walk and chew gum at the same time.
 
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CLEguy
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:52 pm

Looks like UA is swapping IAD for EWR from CAK: https://www.cleveland.com/business/2019 ... route.html. There will be only 1 flight to the NYC area (on AA) from CAK after the swap.
 
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CLEguy
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 05, 2019 1:06 pm

fun2fly wrote:
A chance to be heard? cleveland.com poll on CLE airport.

https://www.cleveland.com/business/2019 ... aders.html


Looks like wider concourses and bigger bathrooms are in the lead on this informal survey: https://www.cleveland.com/business/2019 ... aders.html
 
avtcle
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:02 pm

I’m interested to see if United will do another round of spring break expansion in Cleveland this coming season. Would be great to see some increased frequencies to TPA, FLL, RSW, MCO again. Perhaps a route add as well? UA still has SJU listed as a nonstop route from CLE on their map, which they pretty religiously update, so I’d imagine they’re planning a return for that at some point.
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 05, 2019 9:31 pm

CLEguy wrote:
fun2fly wrote:
A chance to be heard? cleveland.com poll on CLE airport.

https://www.cleveland.com/business/2019 ... aders.html


Looks like wider concourses and bigger bathrooms are in the lead on this informal survey: https://www.cleveland.com/business/2019 ... aders.html


I truly hope this survey has no bearing on any actual plans, as it would mean an improved FIS is much less important than bigger bathrooms...
 
corn4ahead
Posts: 43
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:05 pm

I'm not sure if you guys can see this, but this is probably of interest to you folks in this forum. https://m.facebook.com/NATCAfamily/photos/a.215149848060/10156624491808061/?type=3&source=48
 
CleSyrRoc
Posts: 26
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:41 pm

I'm not sure what the switch to IAD from EWR means for CAK, if anything, in the context of the publicly-known strategy to shift connecting traffic to IAD.

Will be interesting to see what AA does with the sole remaining CAK-LGA frequency. Hard to imagine that LGA slot couldn't be used elsewhere with greater profit, but who knows. I haven't seen the numbers.
 
CleSyrRoc
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:44 pm

Unrelated to CAK, the CLE Wikipedia page (I know, not the most reliable source) now lists Miami as seasonally being on AA mainline equipment. Is this true? If so, what equipment is used and what time of the year is mainline deployed on the route?
 
HPAEAA
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:58 pm

CleSyrRoc wrote:
Unrelated to CAK, the CLE Wikipedia page (I know, not the most reliable source) now lists Miami as seasonally being on AA mainline equipment. Is this true? If so, what equipment is used and what time of the year is mainline deployed on the route?

Did some random searches out to July 2020 and it’s showing all republic/Envoy... if they are finally upgrading service (I think it was 2004 the last time mainline flew the route), it’s not loaded yet.
1.4mm and counting...
 
avtcle
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Oct 06, 2019 3:15 pm

No changes for CLE in the OAG thread this week... probably a good thing because a majority of changes this week are downgrades/cuts!
 
masseybrown
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Oct 06, 2019 3:39 pm

corn4ahead wrote:
I'm not sure if you guys can see this, but this is probably of interest to you folks in this forum. https://m.facebook.com/NATCAfamily/photos/a.215149848060/10156624491808061/?type=3&source=48


This was initially proposed YEARS ago as one of the first TRACON mergers. Local opposition delayed it. CLE and CMH were supposed to be the two surviving TRACONs in Ohio. It was initially supposed to include TOL as well, but I guess TOL will survive for now. It probably means only a dozen or so new jobs at CLE, but they're high-paying ones.
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:08 pm

TOL was supposed to be considered for consolidation into D21 (Detroit), CLE, or AZO; and YNG was for CLE and PIT, but both survived--as massey says--at least for now.
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:11 pm

CLEguy wrote:
Looks like UA is swapping IAD for EWR from CAK: https://www.cleveland.com/business/2019 ... route.html. There will be only 1 flight to the NYC area (on AA) from CAK after the swap.


Depending on how convenient AA's flights times are, this may test the level of loyalty of those to UA. Certainly its not worth it to connect for a 400-mile flight, so if the pax don't jump AA, if they're UA loyalists, they're driving to Hopkins now.
 
masseybrown
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:46 pm

greenair727 wrote:
CLEguy wrote:
Looks like UA is swapping IAD for EWR from CAK: https://www.cleveland.com/business/2019 ... route.html. There will be only 1 flight to the NYC area (on AA) from CAK after the swap.


Depending on how convenient AA's flights times are, this may test the level of loyalty of those to UA. Certainly its not worth it to connect for a 400-mile flight, so if the pax don't jump AA, if they're UA loyalists, they're driving to Hopkins now.


I guess AA could add a NYC flight if the yields are high enough, but their presence in the NYC market seems to be shrinking ... which may account for the hinted-at turmoil in their executive suite. AA's strict hubs-only routing policy doesn't seem to be helping their bottom line.
Last edited by masseybrown on Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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