avtcle
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:38 pm

^agreed, very odd! DFW always pulls good loads... that’s a concerning sign more for AA than it is for CLE.
 
ncflyer
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:17 am

Great but depressing article in Crains current issue about how air service is Cleveland’s main weakness in retaining Sherwin Williams. I found the article depressing but spot on. We will see what happens with SW I’m hopeful but air hubs are driving bigger wedges between the haves and have not cities. Air service has to be our #1 weakness on whatever scoring system SW will be using.

https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-es ... ams-hq-bid
 
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flyPIT
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:03 am

ncflyer wrote:
Great but depressing article in Crains current issue about how air service is Cleveland’s main weakness in retaining Sherwin Williams. I found the article depressing but spot on. We will see what happens with SW I’m hopeful but air hubs are driving bigger wedges between the haves and have not cities. Air service has to be our #1 weakness on whatever scoring system SW will be using.

https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-es ... ams-hq-bid


Looks like SW will stay put. Also released today:
https://www.wkyc.com/article/news/local/cleveland/sherwin-williams-rumored-to-stay-in-cleveland/95-c8c6d62b-fb8b-478a-aa7e-829d607142d4

Great news for Cleveland.
FLYi
 
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CLEguy
Posts: 261
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:19 pm

flyPIT wrote:
ncflyer wrote:
Great but depressing article in Crains current issue about how air service is Cleveland’s main weakness in retaining Sherwin Williams. I found the article depressing but spot on. We will see what happens with SW I’m hopeful but air hubs are driving bigger wedges between the haves and have not cities. Air service has to be our #1 weakness on whatever scoring system SW will be using.

https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-es ... ams-hq-bid


Looks like SW will stay put. Also released today:
https://www.wkyc.com/article/news/local/cleveland/sherwin-williams-rumored-to-stay-in-cleveland/95-c8c6d62b-fb8b-478a-aa7e-829d607142d4

Great news for Cleveland.


Not sure how reliable this blogger is, but let's hope he's correct. I prefer the Public Square site myself. It would fill in that eyesore of barren parking lots created for the Ameritrust Center that never was built.
 
SgtBarone
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:26 pm

The writer is consistently reliable. He is very well-connected in the local business and real estate scene. SW’s CEO John Morikis also just put the finishing touches on his brand new Bay Village mansion earlier this year. The company isn’t going anywhere.
AGP ATL BCN BNA BOS CLE CLT DCA DEN FLG FLL FRA IAD IAH JAX LAX LGB MAD MCI MDW MKE MUC PHX RDU RSW SEA SJU SLC SNA TPA
 
pmanni1
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:27 pm

greenair727 wrote:
CleSyrRoc wrote:
A bit late, but looks like a mixed bag of news for CLE in the latest OAG updates:

AA CLE-CLT FEB 6>7[7] MAR 6>7[7] APR 6>7[7] MAY 6>7[7] JUN 6>7[6] JUL 6>7[6]
AA CLE-DFW JAN 4>2[3]
*AA CLE-JFK JAN 1.6>0[3] FEB 2>1.2[3

Gain one to CLT but losing two to DFW and possibly some frequencies to JFK. Not sure whether to believe the JFK cut in January or not, it looks like they are still scheduling in February.


Is AA in trouble or is this just a Cleveland thing? DFW is a major hub for them--dropping to two daily flights when they have a monopoly is sign that something is up. And zero to JFK? That's even crazier.

With WN only running one flight a week to DAL there is no competition for AA.
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:58 pm

Sherwin Williams has made no official commitment yet. A blogger is not a real source no matter how well connected the person is. I don't see any other Cleveland or National media outlets following up or corroborating this story either. Sounds like somebody was trying to eyeballs to the Channel 3 Sunday evening newscast. This can actually backfire for Cleveland if this guy is releasing proprietary information early and news sources are reporting it.

Not trying to put a wet blanket on this, just some reality.

If AA is pulling back DFW what are the odds F9 or NK starts it up again? Pretty good, IMHO. Not sure why AA wants to risk their yield on this route.

Odds also have to be increasing of CLE-JFK on B6 if AA keeps playing games with this route too.
 
fun2fly
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:21 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
Sherwin Williams has made no official commitment yet. A blogger is not a real source no matter how well connected the person is. I don't see any other Cleveland or National media outlets following up or corroborating this story either. Sounds like somebody was trying to eyeballs to the Channel 3 Sunday evening newscast. This can actually backfire for Cleveland if this guy is releasing proprietary information early and news sources are reporting it.

Not trying to put a wet blanket on this, just some reality.

If AA is pulling back DFW what are the odds F9 or NK starts it up again? Pretty good, IMHO. Not sure why AA wants to risk their yield on this route.

Odds also have to be increasing of CLE-JFK on B6 if AA keeps playing games with this route too.


He's in the know on this one and I'd say it's reliable. He also was in the know on the relo plan months ago. Hopefully, the City will get their heads out of their rears and note how quickly SW can pick and construct a new HQ...I hope they pick the CLE master plan consultant before SW moves into their new HQ. Seriously, I hope they had to offer some air service as part of the bid package such as TATL year round or something like that.
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:51 pm

fun2fly wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:
Sherwin Williams has made no official commitment yet. A blogger is not a real source no matter how well connected the person is. I don't see any other Cleveland or National media outlets following up or corroborating this story either. Sounds like somebody was trying to eyeballs to the Channel 3 Sunday evening newscast. This can actually backfire for Cleveland if this guy is releasing proprietary information early and news sources are reporting it.

Not trying to put a wet blanket on this, just some reality.

If AA is pulling back DFW what are the odds F9 or NK starts it up again? Pretty good, IMHO. Not sure why AA wants to risk their yield on this route.

Odds also have to be increasing of CLE-JFK on B6 if AA keeps playing games with this route too.


He's in the know on this one and I'd say it's reliable. He also was in the know on the relo plan months ago. Hopefully, the City will get their heads out of their rears and note how quickly SW can pick and construct a new HQ...I hope they pick the CLE master plan consultant before SW moves into their new HQ. Seriously, I hope they had to offer some air service as part of the bid package such as TATL year round or something like that.


I doesn't matter what our opinions are of him, the Channel 3 story was not picked up by other media outlets and SW staying in Cleveland is a HUGE story for the region. Tells me the source or the information the source has isn't all that solid. I want SW to stay, I'll feel better with an official announcement or something being reported from multiple outlets.
 
masseybrown
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:22 pm

I trust Prendergast; he's a former reporter and knows his business. His opinions sometimes turn out wrong, but the facts he bases them on are right. this is his blog:

http://neo-trans.blogspot.com/

Read it and draw your own conclusions.
Last edited by masseybrown on Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
csizmpl
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:22 pm

AA’s CLE-DFW schedule returns to a 4x Sun thru Fri 2x Sat on Feb 17th
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:26 pm

masseybrown wrote:
I trust Prendergast. His opinions sometimes turn out wrong, but the facts he bases them on are right. this is his blog:

http://neo-trans.blogspot.com/

Read it and draw your own conclusions.


Is airliners.net getting a royalty every time this guy's real estate blog is posted here? :D
 
masseybrown
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:39 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
Is airliners.net getting a royalty every time this guy's real estate blog is posted here? :D


I doubt it. He's a big fan of trains.

What I didn't like about the crainscleveland.com article was the story that SHW is so big internationally, implyng Europe and Asia. I'm not sure what Valspar may have done to their business mix, but prior to the merger 'international' meant mostly Latin American t SHW, and there are only two really well-connected US cities for that.
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:53 pm

Bisnow Atlanta has an article today stating Atlanta is a frontrunner for SWHQ. This is after the Channel 3 "SW is staying in Cleveland" article from earlier in the week.

https://www.bisnow.com/atlanta/news/off ... ion-101291

Mentions air travel as a factor but the source involved has no direct knowledge of the search proceedings. Another article from a single source who isn't directly involved.

It's also looking like the blogger and Channel 3 editors may jumped the gun which is why no other media outlet bothered to back it up.

Hoping I'm wrong and SW makes an announcement about Cleveland soon.
 
ncflyer
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:51 pm

A blogger is one thing, as it is a free country and he can hold himself to his own standards, but for WKYC to pick up on this story is irresponsible, it could enable another city to swoop in and best NEO's offer somehow.
 
avtcle
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:56 pm

DeWine will give Sherwin whatever it wants to stay. I think they understand the importance of this. I think the state had already proved they will do whatever is necessary to keep the company here. If an incentive package has already been accepted, then Cleveland looks to be in good shape. No need to keep fighting about this in a Cleveland aviation thread.
 
avtcle
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:52 pm

Allegiant has extended their schedule through August 2020 — here’s the overview for CLE:

*asterisk indicates active route

*CLE-SAV: 3x weekly to daily in June
CLE-VPS: resumes in May at 2x weekly
CLE-ORF: resumes in May at 2x weekly
CLE-BNA: resumes in February at 2x weekly
*CLE-SRQ: no change
CLE-CHS: resumes in February at 2x weekly
*CLE-PGD: 2x weekly to 3x weekly in June
CLE-SFB: resumes in February at 2x weekly
*CLE-PIE: no change
CLE-JAX: resumes at 2x weekly in March
CLE-MYR: resumes in June at 2x weekly
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:26 am

^thanks for posting this. but for all the cities with

CLE-xxx: resumes in May at 2x weekly
CLE-xxx: resumes in May at 2x weekly

were they 2x before?--for others you say "no change" and others a clear change "2x to 3x" so its hard to tell what's what.
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:31 am

izbtmnhd wrote:
I doesn't matter what our opinions are of him, the Channel 3 story was not picked up by other media outlets and SW staying in Cleveland is a HUGE story for the region. Tells me the source or the information the source has isn't all that solid. I want SW to stay, I'll feel better with an official announcement or something being reported from multiple outlets.


I get the apprehension of trusting a blogger, but I wouldn't belittle Channel 3, as they just may have a better sniffer for news/leads than others. Remember Channel 3 broke the news the UA was dehubbing Cleveland before UA even told employees. Granted, that may be a reflection of how sh*&*tty of an airline UA is over how insightful Channel 3 is, but Channel 3 broke the news nonetheless.
 
Trk1
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:07 am

Why do we have to have the constant negative comments on United from Greenair727. United is the largest airline in Cleveland and has been for every year but 3 in the history of the airport. They provide good service to Cleveland. What does this have to do with Sherwin Williams??? and WKYC 3???
 
avtcle
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:47 am

^Not that they’re necessarily a poor airline, but they did cost the city of Cleveland 4 billion dollars worth of businesses. That’s enough to have some beef against them.
 
fun2fly
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:44 am

It's Oct 16....TATL announcements soon or "wait till next year?" When is too late? Thoughts?
 
avtcle
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:58 pm

Cleveland may honestly be stuck waiting another economic cycle to pick up at TATL route. Almost all of Europe is in a recession, and the US Economy is entering a slowdown.
 
steeler83
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:08 pm

Aer Lingus isn't announcing any TATL destinations - at least as far as any using the A321XLR due to delays with said aircraft. Not sure if BA will announce anything or not at this point. I know they were the most likely to announce transatlantic service to CLE. Not sure who else would express interest.
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
ncflyer
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:10 pm

fun2fly wrote:
It's Oct 16....TATL announcements soon or "wait till next year?" When is too late? Thoughts?


My reaction: October 16, at least we haven't run out of time for a daily year round SEA starting this summer. And SEA is close to Victoria, which kind of feels like England. . . .

I didn't realize that Sherwin did so little business in Europe (according to a Massey post from a few days back)-- they would be in a position to ask the state to spend money on CLE air service as part of their retention package.
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:04 pm

greenair727 wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:
I doesn't matter what our opinions are of him, the Channel 3 story was not picked up by other media outlets and SW staying in Cleveland is a HUGE story for the region. Tells me the source or the information the source has isn't all that solid. I want SW to stay, I'll feel better with an official announcement or something being reported from multiple outlets.


I get the apprehension of trusting a blogger, but I wouldn't belittle Channel 3, as they just may have a better sniffer for news/leads than others. Remember Channel 3 broke the news the UA was dehubbing Cleveland before UA even told employees. Granted, that may be a reflection of how sh*&*tty of an airline UA is over how insightful Channel 3 is, but Channel 3 broke the news nonetheless.


Fifteen years ago this wouldn't have been a story without a second source. That's my concern about what WKYC (and later Cleveland Scene) did here. The Atlanta Bisnow article has the same problem too.

Also, ncflyer is right. It's not really smart to release all this info (if it's correct) until the deal is done. It can be used to enhance a competing bid. The process is final when SW officially says so, not the blogger.

csizmpl wrote:
AA’s CLE-DFW schedule returns to a 4x Sun thru Fri 2x Sat on Feb 17th


Great! Now the OAG post makes sense.
Last edited by izbtmnhd on Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
jplatts
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:07 pm

pmanni1 wrote:
greenair727 wrote:
CleSyrRoc wrote:
A bit late, but looks like a mixed bag of news for CLE in the latest OAG updates:

AA CLE-CLT FEB 6>7[7] MAR 6>7[7] APR 6>7[7] MAY 6>7[7] JUN 6>7[6] JUL 6>7[6]
AA CLE-DFW JAN 4>2[3]
*AA CLE-JFK JAN 1.6>0[3] FEB 2>1.2[3

Gain one to CLT but losing two to DFW and possibly some frequencies to JFK. Not sure whether to believe the JFK cut in January or not, it looks like they are still scheduling in February.


Is AA in trouble or is this just a Cleveland thing? DFW is a major hub for them--dropping to two daily flights when they have a monopoly is sign that something is up. And zero to JFK? That's even crazier.

With WN only running one flight a week to DAL there is no competition for AA.


izbtmnhd wrote:
If AA is pulling back DFW what are the odds F9 or NK starts it up again? Pretty good, IMHO. Not sure why AA wants to risk their yield on this route.


WN could increase CLE-DAL nonstop service to daily nonstop service, and WN can likely make CLE-DAL daily nonstop service work since
(a) AA is currently the only airline with year-round nonstop service to DFW from CLE whereas most of the other major markets in the contiguous U.S. have year-round daily nonstop service out of DFW or DAL on airlines other than AA,
(b) WN is bigger in both DAL and CLE than F9 or NK are,
(c) WN already operates a few nonstop routes out of CLE such as CLE-BWI, CLE-MKE, and CLE-STL that aren't served nonstop by competitors,
and
(d) WN is able to make daily nonstop service to DAL work from most of the markets near CLE.

Here are the load factors for WN nonstop routes to DAL from nearby markets in July 2019:
BWI-DAL 86.81%
MDW-DAL 86.45%
CMH-DAL 87.00%
DTW-DAL 86.37%
IND-DAL 88.67%
SDF-DAL 79.15%
MKE-DAL 86.24%
PIT-DAL 87.98%
DCA-DAL 87.20%

I was actually expecting more competition on DFW/DAL-CLE 10 years ago, whereas most of the other major markets in the contiguous U.S. have more competition out of DFW/DAL than was expected 10 years ago.
 
masseybrown
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:06 pm

csizmpl wrote:
AA’s CLE-DFW schedule returns to a 4x Sun thru Fri 2x Sat on Feb 17th


If you look at monthly traffic stats, CLE has a VERY deep trough in January - deeper than the industry average. I figure AA, with MAX driven-constraints, has decided not to tolerate the usual January losses on the route.Frequencies go to 4 in the 2nd half of Feb and back to 5 in March.
 
jplatts
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:30 pm

masseybrown wrote:
csizmpl wrote:
AA’s CLE-DFW schedule returns to a 4x Sun thru Fri 2x Sat on Feb 17th


If you look at monthly traffic stats, CLE has a VERY deep trough in January - deeper than the industry average. I figure AA, with MAX driven-constraints, has decided not to tolerate the usual January losses on the route.Frequencies go to 4 in the 2nd half of Feb and back to 5 in March.


I can understand AA cutting back on DFW-CLE nonstop service in January as AA is currently facing a narrowbody fleet shortage due to AA having already retired its last MD-80 planes in addition to the 737 MAX not yet back in service.
 
masseybrown
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:43 pm

Spirit is adding Cancun four times a week starting St. Valentine's Day.

http://pdf.reuters.com/htmlnews/htmlnew ... nGNX3R3bgk
 
Robert1010
Posts: 173
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:59 pm

masseybrown wrote:
Spirit is adding Cancun four times a week starting St. Valentine's Day.

http://pdf.reuters.com/htmlnews/htmlnew ... nGNX3R3bgk

Wow , UA, F9 and now NK on CUN , surprised DL never came in seeing how they fly CUN from everywhere else in area !
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:17 pm

Trk1 wrote:
Why do we have to have the constant negative comments on United from Greenair727. United is the largest airline in Cleveland and has been for every year but 3 in the history of the airport. They provide good service to Cleveland. What does this have to do with Sherwin Williams??? and WKYC 3???


Constant? Read my last 50 posts, there's probably no mention of UA. Anyways, there was a question on the credibility of Channel 3, and this being an airline forum, I used an airline example. If you don't know or understand what UA did to Cleveland, do some reading. And your assertion that "United is the largest airline in Cleveland and has been for every year but 3 in the history of the airport" is simply not true and you certainly can't count Continental's hub here as United pre-merger. In fact, Continental was able to create a hub in Cleveland BECAUSE United pulled their hub in the early 80s. Your other point, "They provide good service to Cleveland" is also not true. Its true in the narrow sense if you're coming from Houston, or ORD or Florida, and a few other spots. Its NOT true if you're coming from SFO (where MOST people have to connect on UA), PDX, SEA, SAN, MCI, PVD, ALB, and long list of other cities that UA has cut from Cleveland.
 
avtcle
Posts: 191
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:21 am

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:25 pm

Get ready for even more go!
Spirit is launching year-round, 4x weekly flights (MON/WED/FRI/SAT) from Cleveland to Cancun beginning February 14, 2020!

http://www.globenewswire.com/news-relea ... ancun.html
 
User avatar
enilria
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:29 pm

masseybrown wrote:
avtcle wrote:
enilria wrote:
Doing the OAG thread I get a lot of PMs from airline management, and FI told me that CLE is suspended only as long as the MAX isn't flying and as of now they expect it to return for Summer 2020, but if the MAX still isn't flying that's a different story. It is not presently for sale probably because of the unsettled MAX situation.

EDIT: Regarding this thread, that makes me wonder if they are considering swapping MCI and CLE, so that MCI becomes the market that only flies if the MAX does and CLE is green-lighted?


Being that MCI just got the chop, I’m wondering if this comment by Enrila is actually coming to frutation. Perhaps they’re preparing to give CLE the “green light”? Enrila isn’t known to be wrong! One can only hope, right?


Looking back at the numbers, WW and FI carried a hair under 51,000 CLE-KEF pax both ways during the 4 1/2 months their flights operated. That's 188 boardings a day on average. Let's say without WW competition FI will charge a bit more, somewhat reducing demand. Even then, if FI should operate 4 or 5 departures a week next summer, they'd be looking at 100% loads using a 160 pax MAX8 (at least seasonally, assuming the novelty of Iceland hasn't worn off for area travelers). That sounds like a pretty good case for restoring the flight.

I am told that CLE is still planned to return with the MAX and MCI probably is not. So, I suppose that means it passed MCI on the priority list.
 
ncflyer
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:40 pm

if that's the case, it'd really be nice if FI came out and said that, even if it's done in guarded language because of aircraft availability uncertainty. To Clevelanders who don't read these forums (and even to those of us who do) it sure feels like FI fell off the face of the earth.
 
masseybrown
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:48 pm

enilria wrote:
I am told that CLE is still planned to return with the MAX and MCI probably is not. So, I suppose that means it passed MCI on the priority list.


Considering all the whining coming from Aer Lingus about A321 deliveries, FI is pretty much assured of being the only TATL game in town. They should do well.
 
masseybrown
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:49 pm

- double post - sorry
 
avtcle
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:16 pm

Promising notes about Icelandair. They did say they were evaluating new gateway cities for summer 2020 after they cut SFO & MCI. They certainly now have the extra equipment, and a surplus when the MAX is back.
 
avtcle
Posts: 191
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:49 pm

Cleveland to San Juan is the #1 (by demand) unserved route from the Eastern US to the Caribbean for 2019. 59,800 passengers flew from Cleveland to San Juan in the year to August 2019.

Cleveland to Montego Bay is the #9 (by demand) unserved route from the Eastern US to the Caribbean for 2019. 30,300 passengers flew from Cleveland to Montego Bay in the year to August 2019.

Both look like very viable options for a 2-3x weekly flight for Frontier. With the success on their CLE-PUJ route, these seem like inevitable adds in the future.

https://www.anna.aero/2019/10/11/top-20 ... caribbean/
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:45 pm

^Re CLE-SJU---that demand is really high. That's roughly 90k/yr, 45k each way, which equals demand for 5.2x/week per direction, so it could probably do daily with stimulated demand. After Maria, CLE's Puerto Rican population expanded from the days before Maria. Any chance DL would come in and serve this route? Second choice, could UA do it? I heard CLE-SJU is still on their route map, though they ended their Sat-only service a while ago (around Maria).
 
jplatts
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:05 pm

greenair727 wrote:
^Re CLE-SJU---that demand is really high. That's roughly 90k/yr, 45k each way, which equals demand for 5.2x/week per direction, so it could probably do daily with stimulated demand. After Maria, CLE's Puerto Rican population expanded from the days before Maria. Any chance DL would come in and serve this route? Second choice, could UA do it? I heard CLE-SJU is still on their route map, though they ended their Sat-only service a while ago (around Maria).


WN or B6 adding CLE-SJU nonstop service are also possibilities as both carriers already serve SJU.
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:40 pm

^Good point--Actually it would make a nice bump for B6 to simultaneously add JFK and SJU. Didn't even think of AA---they once had a very strong hub there.
 
avtcle
Posts: 191
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:58 pm

A firm to develop the master plan has been hired.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.clevel ... utType=amp
 
Robert1010
Posts: 173
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:09 pm

The only plan should involve C4 explosives and a collapse zone , hopefully this company sees that, but doubtful, they will take there money and run as the city keeps putting bandaids in this place !
 
avtcle
Posts: 191
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:21 am

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:55 pm

This company seems experienced... worked at IND and LAX recently so I doubt they’re going to make subpar suggestionsz
 
fun2fly
Posts: 1507
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:44 am

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:41 pm

avtcle wrote:
This company seems experienced... worked at IND and LAX recently so I doubt they’re going to make subpar suggestionsz


The IND experience is a good reference point for CLE. I hope that they do a great job and CLE ends up with a first class facility. I just hope it doesn't take 20 more years.
 
737MAX7
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:26 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:17 pm

fun2fly wrote:
avtcle wrote:
This company seems experienced... worked at IND and LAX recently so I doubt they’re going to make subpar suggestionsz


The IND experience is a good reference point for CLE. I hope that they do a great job and CLE ends up with a first class facility. I just hope it doesn't take 20 more years.

Well it’s CLE so it will
 
ncflyer
Posts: 1239
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 7:03 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:35 pm

There seemed to be some objection on here to discussing Sherwin Williams on an airline chat board. I don't share that objection, as S-W has a far bigger impact on air travel in CLE than 2 bit flight schedules from Allegiant. . . .

In any case, the four cities rumored to be under consideration outside of Ohio are all mega hubs (ATL, DFW, IAH, CLT), and furthermore the site selection expert mentions international air service as something that may be driving SW to consider other cities.

https://www.wkyc.com/article/news/local ... 364f2b6012

If CLE loses all or part of S-W, it will be a classic case of the rich getting richer-- the rich being those cities in our country that have airline hubs (plus a few areas like Austin and RDU whose airports are really moving in a nice direction).
 
VetteDude
Posts: 94
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 4:13 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:19 pm

I don't think we need to panic about S-W. If I were a betting man I'd bet on a mid-rise off public square.
 
avtcle
Posts: 191
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:21 am

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:25 pm

Norwegian says it’s emerging strongly from it’s poor financial position after renegotiating loans and restructuring its network. They just had their most profitable quarter in the carrier’s history for Q3 2019.

Today they announced AUS-CDG service... Could Norwegian find a niche in CLE? 787 service, or perhaps wait until the 737 MAX is back? Just some thoughts because it seems we’ll once again be without TATL service for summer 2020 — Unless the MAX is garunteed to return before summer by European regulators, in which Icelandair could be back. Enilria noted a few days ago that he was told CLE would be back if the MAX was back.

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