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fun2fly
Posts: 1472
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:49 pm

HPAEAA wrote:
fun2fly wrote:
HPAEAA wrote:
Honestly I don’t know why they would put them at A, Clear has to staff the machines so there would have to be a resonable number of people using it... as you mentioned, the LCCs may have more leisure travelers traveling a few time a year... at 179/year or 79/year for some medallion members it’s not a cheap solution...


I think we underestimate the avg. pax on F9, etc. If you have a house you bought in 2005 in RSW/TPA/PBI, etc, you were a UA loyalist flying them to RSW/TPA/PBI, etc. UA is gone...so, you going to connect or fly direct? Many people I talked to take F9 to save time so it's not all people w/o an extra $5 in their pocket.

I don't disagree about the customer type fun2fly, but how often are they doing a back and forth to really make it worth while? That was my point - if your traveling 5 times a year, that would be approx 23 bucks per person, per use to shorten the ID check portion of the line if a couple had purchased membership. Note clear is only in MCO, FLL & MIA currently.

The one other factor I forgot about is Precheck availability - are there plans to add Precheck to A? B & C make complete sense since I suspect the majority of CLEAR members are also in Precheck.


Who knows, but probably the guy with the house in FLA has/had a job that paid for all this stuff like you and me. Either way, good to have this offering for CLE pax and it surely doesn't hurt. Albeit little things, you can see the CLE gang trying.
 
masseybrown
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:50 pm

There is now a CLE-DAL line showing on WN's route map, but I don't see any flights in the schedule. I wonder if the route got pulled over the Max grounding, but the map wasn't corrected.
 
chrisjake
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:53 pm

Well look at that, you are correct. The new WN schedule extension comes out next Monday, maybe we'll find out then?
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:58 pm

chrisjake wrote:
Well look at that, you are correct. The new WN schedule extension comes out next Monday, maybe we'll find out then?


It's already out, it came out this morning CLE-DAL Sun only
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masseybrown
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:00 pm

^ Ah, that explains it. I checked Saturdays, but not Sundays. Sun only is pretty disappointing.
 
fun2fly
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:27 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
chrisjake wrote:
Well look at that, you are correct. The new WN schedule extension comes out next Monday, maybe we'll find out then?


It's already out, it came out this morning CLE-DAL Sun only


What the hell is the purpose of that route?
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:53 pm

On Sundays, AA is 5x (in Oct--not now) and NK is 1x. Granted all are to DFW, but still... not sure what WN hopes to accomplish with such limited service. jplatts--weigh in here!
 
masseybrown
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:11 pm

^ Mexican resort package tours? That's all I can think of.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:42 pm

fun2fly wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
chrisjake wrote:
Well look at that, you are correct. The new WN schedule extension comes out next Monday, maybe we'll find out then?


It's already out, it came out this morning CLE-DAL Sun only


What the hell is the purpose of that route?


WN doesn't have any space to add weekday flights to DAL, they run something crazy like 10-11 turns per gate(maybe more) during the week.

This allows them to put their foot into the market, and gauge interest
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:17 pm

I'll assume its targeted for the Dallas market more than the CLE market for people to spend a week-long vacations in Cleveland.
 
masseybrown
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:40 pm

masseybrown wrote:
^ Mexican resort package tours? That's all I can think of.


Just noticed the Mexican resorts are all served from HOU, nothing from DAL ...
 
Jshank83
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:46 pm

Sunday only is better than Saturday only, imo. I am not one to fly much on Saturdays but I fly Sundays a fair amount.
 
greenair727
Posts: 1231
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:03 pm

^agreed. But its certainly less useful than 3-4x daily. If you're going to enter an existing market where there are already two incumbent carriers---one of which is an LCCC and the other operates 4-5x daily, you have to be offering SOMETHING to the market. 1x weekly isn't anything. LUV vs DFW is not enough.
 
N766UA
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:04 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
chrisjake wrote:
Well look at that, you are correct. The new WN schedule extension comes out next Monday, maybe we'll find out then?


It's already out, it came out this morning CLE-DAL Sun only


I saw “CLE-DAL” and thought oh cool, finally! Big add! But Sunday only? I rescind my excitement. Who goes to Dallas for a whole week?? It’s a pretty useless add unless they go to at least 5x weekly at some point, preferably daily or better.
 
ncflyer
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:37 pm

In fairness it’s not like allegiant where literally the only way is— on Allegiant non stops a few times a week. Plenty of one stop connecting opportunities to DAL the other six days.

I’m gonna call this underhwelming add “at least WN notices CLE”, I think that’s the only thing to be said about it.
 
masseybrown
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:17 am

Jshank83 wrote:
Sunday only is better than Saturday only, imo. I am not one to fly much on Saturdays but I fly Sundays a fair amount.


Looking at Spirit's day of the week fares for CLE-DFW in June, Sunday is the highest by far. Maybe WN actually knows what they are doing. ;)
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:51 pm

From enilria's weekly list:

AA CLE-JFK MAY 1.9>1.0[2.0]


One flight a day? That's concerning. Is it because fewer OneWorld pax for int'l trips going instead to the other alliances or AA forcing those people to CLT instead? They still have 4x to LGA. Will this decease alert B6 to begin CLE-JFK service? I still think B6 CLE-JFK service would do very well--and local traffic would take JFK over LGA for B6 if it were frequent enough like 3x daily. Or is this related to the 737-Max-8 issue where they need the CLE plane to fill in for service they removed elsewhere?
 
ncflyer
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:00 pm

AA is reducing JFK pretty broadly, even to RDU and so many of their domestic routes, seems like they’re trying to make JFK o/d and Philly connections. Nothing for CLE to take personally.

With 4x on delta to JFK, I wouldn’t be holding my breath for B6 to enter the route. 4x is more frequency than other similar cities out of JFK on Delta including PIT CMH and IND.
 
HPAEAA
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:30 pm

greenair727 wrote:
From enilria's weekly list:

AA CLE-JFK MAY 1.9>1.0[2.0]


One flight a day? That's concerning. Is it because fewer OneWorld pax for int'l trips going instead to the other alliances or AA forcing those people to CLT instead? They still have 4x to LGA. Will this decease alert B6 to begin CLE-JFK service? I still think B6 CLE-JFK service would do very well--and local traffic would take JFK over LGA for B6 if it were frequent enough like 3x daily. Or is this related to the 737-Max-8 issue where they need the CLE plane to fill in for service they removed elsewhere?


More likely they’re forcing the OW/Euro connections over PHL, this will leave them with 4x NYC departures (3x lga & 1x jfk). Unfortunately (looking ahead to June) the earliest departure from NYC to CLE is 10 am and going from Cleveland to NYC only has 1 departure after 1:30 pm... curious if this will work for them....
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masseybrown
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:06 pm

HPAEAA wrote:
Unfortunately (looking ahead to June) the earliest departure from NYC to CLE is 10 am and going from Cleveland to NYC only has 1 departure after 1:30 pm... curious if this will work for them....


Same thing from DCA, although it's always been a 10 o'clock hour departure since the DCA-CLE flights began. Slot allocation is part of the problem.
 
tphuang
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:36 pm

Problem with B6 to JFK is that B6 is maxed out on slots and there are other routes that would be in consideration before CLE. Using JFK slots on a short route like CLE where O&D is heavily dominated by LGA is not really wise. If slot situation changes at JFK, either slot going away or AA leasing/selling slots to B6, CLE could work.
 
737MAX7
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:39 pm

masseybrown wrote:
masseybrown wrote:
^ Mexican resort package tours? That's all I can think of.


Just noticed the Mexican resorts are all served from HOU, nothing from DAL ...

Domestic only out of DAL, part of the agreement to pull back parts of the Wright Amendment.
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:20 pm

masseybrown wrote:
I guess the most visible CLE impact of the Max grounding may be the Icelandair flights to KEF. I suspect FI will end the Max8 routes rather than try to spread the 757s around, assuming the grounding lasts into May.


I just heard an ad for FI this morning on the radio--that said "returning this Spring" -- so hopefully FI has a contingency plan to maintain CLE service even if the Max8 grounding is still in effect.
 
SgtBarone
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:40 pm

I imagine a 752 would fit the route, especially with no competition from WW.
AGP ATL BCN BNA BOS CLE CLT DCA DEN FLG FLL FRA IAD IAH JAX LAX LGB MAD MCI MDW MKE MUC PHX RDU RSW SEA SJU SLC SNA TPA
 
ncflyer
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:18 pm

Right but extra 752s don’t fall from trees, they’d have to pull it from another flight. More likely they set the ad campaign in motion and are not pulling it back in the chance the max fixes are ready. Full size ads in the orchestra program too.

It’s bad luck for cleveland. Finally a carrier with European service and it happens to be a carrier that uses the max. Reminds me of how CO big expansions always seemed to coincide with bad economic news, then they were pulled back.
 
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flymco753
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:24 pm

The 737MAX8 is a great type of aircraft to fly CLE-KEF, it stinks that the aircraft had to endure this kind of issue. I'm crunching some numbers on excel and I think it would be a little difficult for EI & FI to coincide. Considering CLE isn't one of FI's best performers (due to schedule adjustments, seasonality, etc.), it would be hard to think that an airline with nearly the same price model with different aircraft of nearly the same size would be able to coincide. What I'd like to see CLE do is go year round with something to Europe before gaining another carrier. It's almost like a slow cooker on a timer for 6 hours on low, it's a matter of time until CLE can support a year round flight.
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
avtcle
Posts: 83
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:05 pm

Icelandair stated that no routes would be canceled due to the 737 MAX grounding. If anything they’ll simply stop the additional frequencies that the MAX provided for routes like BOS, ORD, ORY, LGW and AMS. Then they’ll deploy their 757s & 767s on effected routes. It’s likely there may be frequency cuts on existing routes that have more-than-daily service on the days they will need aircraft for MCI & CLE service. Icelandair would risk a lot of business if they went cutting their summer schedule that’s already booked up generously.
 
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CLEguy
Posts: 245
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:02 am

ncflyer wrote:
Right but extra 752s don’t fall from trees, they’d have to pull it from another flight. More likely they set the ad campaign in motion and are not pulling it back in the chance the max fixes are ready. Full size ads in the orchestra program too.

It’s bad luck for cleveland. Finally a carrier with European service and it happens to be a carrier that uses the max. Reminds me of how CO big expansions always seemed to coincide with bad economic news, then they were pulled back.


As noted above, Icelandair will likely sub 737 Max flights with 757's.

    "Passengers that are booked on an Icelandair flight that was scheduled on a 737 MAX 8 do not need to contact Icelandair in order to be rebooked on a flight. We will be changing the aircraft on affected routes to either a 757 or 767 aircraft."

    https://www.icelandair.com/blog/stateme ... perations/
     
    greenair727
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    Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

    Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:55 am

    ^That's nice that FI issued such an official statement. Classy move.
     
    avtcle
    Posts: 83
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    Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

    Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:15 pm

    HPAEAA wrote:
    greenair727 wrote:
    From enilria's weekly list:

    AA CLE-JFK MAY 1.9>1.0[2.0]


    One flight a day? That's concerning. Is it because fewer OneWorld pax for int'l trips going instead to the other alliances or AA forcing those people to CLT instead? They still have 4x to LGA. Will this decease alert B6 to begin CLE-JFK service? I still think B6 CLE-JFK service would do very well--and local traffic would take JFK over LGA for B6 if it were frequent enough like 3x daily. Or is this related to the 737-Max-8 issue where they need the CLE plane to fill in for service they removed elsewhere?


    More likely they’re forcing the OW/Euro connections over PHL, this will leave them with 4x NYC departures (3x lga & 1x jfk). Unfortunately (looking ahead to June) the earliest departure from NYC to CLE is 10 am and going from Cleveland to NYC only has 1 departure after 1:30 pm... curious if this will work for them....


    Actually looking to July, CLE-JFK is back to 2x daily.
     
    greenair727
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    Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

    Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:41 pm

    AA1590 CLE-DFW departed CLE, had pressurization issues, and returned safely to CLE.

    http://www.cleveland19.com/2019/03/20/f ... -problems/
     
    greenair727
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    Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

    Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:53 am

    HPAEAA wrote:
    Got an email from CLEAR today they they’re live in Cleveland and the central & south checkpoints.


    Does anyone here use Clear? Is like pre-check or does it just get you to the front of the security line, pre-check or otherwise?
     
    HPAEAA
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    Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

    Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:09 am

    greenair727 wrote:
    HPAEAA wrote:
    Got an email from CLEAR today they they’re live in Cleveland and the central & south checkpoints.


    Does anyone here use Clear? Is like pre-check or does it just get you to the front of the security line, pre-check or otherwise?

    I do and also have precheck, the Clear portion allows you to bypass the Id check in the security line.
    1.4mm and counting...
     
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    CLEguy
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    Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

    Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:31 pm

    HPAEAA wrote:
    greenair727 wrote:
    HPAEAA wrote:
    Got an email from CLEAR today they they’re live in Cleveland and the central & south checkpoints.


    Does anyone here use Clear? Is like pre-check or does it just get you to the front of the security line, pre-check or otherwise?

    I do and also have precheck, the Clear portion allows you to bypass the Id check in the security line.


    It also gets you to the head of the regular security screening line if you don't have pre-check. You still go through the regular screening. I can't see the value for myself who has Global Entry (with pre-check), but if you travel very frequently, or travel to airports with very busy pre-check lines, it might be worth it.
     
    ncflyer
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    Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

    Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:57 pm

    Per the UA app, tonight’s 3/22 evening flight to SFO is a 757-200. a substitution related to Max that are out of service right now?Probably been many years since anything but a 737 flew in to town on to carry commercial passengers on United main line.
     
    deltadart106
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    Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

    Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:13 am

    [photoid][/photoid]
    ncflyer wrote:
    Per the UA app, tonight’s 3/22 evening flight to SFO is a 757-200. a substitution related to Max that are out of service right now?Probably been many years since anything but a 737 flew in to town on to carry commercial passengers on United main line.


    United had a nightly 753 flight (DEN I think, could be wrong) and a few 752s up until like 2012-13 when the de-hubbing began. That's the last time I remember them being regularly scheduled here.
     
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    CLEguy
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    Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

    Sat Mar 23, 2019 3:08 am

    PD article about the 737 Max grounding's impact on Icelandair's CLE service. Not really much new, however.

    https://www.cleveland.com/business/2019 ... ights.html
     
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    CLEguy
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    Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

    Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:51 pm

    Just tried to book a flight on Icelandair for July and there was no nonstop flights offered. On another site, a poster mentioned all availability on FI836/FI837 has been zeroed out. That's certainly not a good sign for the CLE-KEF route's return. CLE is still listed as a destination on the Icelandair website, however. I wonder if it's the uncertainty of the 737 Max or just poor bookings? I haven't heard anything official yet.
     
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    CLEguy
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    Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

    Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:19 pm

    Duplicate post. Sorry.
     
    ncflyer
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    Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

    Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:46 pm

    Not a good sign. I didn’t check real carefully but MCI is still bookable with nonstops in July. I just reread the PD article closely and there’s definitely some cautious word choice by the folks quoted.
     
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    CLEguy
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    Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

    Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:31 am

    ncflyer wrote:
    Not a good sign. I didn’t check real carefully but MCI is still bookable with nonstops in July. I just reread the PD article closely and there’s definitely some cautious word choice by the folks quoted.


    For what it's worth, I just asked on Icelandair's Facebook page and got the following answer: "We will be resuming the flights from Cleveland on May 17th. They should be available on our website in the coming days."
     
    strangeplanes
    Posts: 73
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    Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

    Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:58 am

    CLEguy wrote:
    ncflyer wrote:
    Not a good sign. I didn’t check real carefully but MCI is still bookable with nonstops in July. I just reread the PD article closely and there’s definitely some cautious word choice by the folks quoted.


    For what it's worth, I just asked on Icelandair's Facebook page and got the following answer: "We will be resuming the flights from Cleveland on May 17th. They should be available on our website in the coming days."

    I can’t imagine ticket sales will be good if it’s just now being added to the website.
     
    maps4ltd
    Posts: 284
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    Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

    Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:04 am

    This kind of smacked of what happened to WW with us in STL before STL-KEF was cut...until I saw post 339.
    Delta Gold Medallion and Southwest A-List
     
    ncflyer
    Posts: 1154
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    Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

    Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:22 am

    Maybe they pulled the flight to work through aircraft changes but it’s sure odd. Why not MCI? What about folks who previously purchased seats when the flights were listed? According to Wikipedia page Max are five out of a fleet of 41, that’s significant %.
     
    greenair727
    Posts: 1231
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    Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

    Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:38 pm

    FI says the max represents 3 out of 33 aircraft --- so 9%---a tiny bit less dire than 5 out of 41, but notable nonetheless.

    "In the short term, this decision will not have a material impact on the Company’s operations since it only affects 3 passenger aircraft of a total fleet of 33, which creates flexibility to respond in the coming weeks." https://www.icelandair.com/blog/stateme ... perations/
     
    N766UA
    Posts: 8212
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    Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

    Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:28 pm

    Went through the “new” “Ground Transportation Center” the other day. Everyone on the bus was complaining about it quite loudly. Only CLE could somehow make it worse and more convoluted...
     
    greenair727
    Posts: 1231
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    Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

    Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:25 pm

    ^I got picked up by Lyft the other day---and it so nice to be picked up at the exit door for a change. CLE is finally like every other airport in the US I've been to (either at the door or across the street/roadway from the door). Did they again move Uber/Lyft to this new "Ground Transportation Center" or is that only for the shuttle buses?
     
    swacle
    Posts: 488
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    Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

    Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:28 pm

    FI has pulled the plug on CLE for 2019.
    Aircraft Flown: SF3 DH8 DH4 328 ERJ CRJ CR7 CR9 E70 E75 D9S M80 712 72S 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 739ER 752 318 319 32
     
    fun2fly
    Posts: 1472
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    Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

    Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:42 pm

    swacle wrote:
    FI has pulled the plug on CLE for 2019.


    Wow. If that's true, it's a shame. So, back to the norm for CLE, no TATL service. Sure wish I went to KEF last year.
     
    goCOgo
    Posts: 706
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    Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

    Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:48 pm

    Yep. https://www.cleveland.com/news/2019/03/ ... -woes.html

    The situation with the Max played a role in that [the cited "commercial reasons"]. We have to maximize the fleet we have going into the summer season. Unfortunately, Cleveland was one of the routes we decided to cancel at this time.
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