SgtBarone
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:45 pm

Very cool. UA also used CLE as a test subject for its new boarding process about a year and a half ago.
AGP ATL BCN BNA BOS CLE CLT DCA DEN FLG FLL FRA IAD IAH JAX LAX LGB MAD MCI MDW MKE MUC PHX RDU RSW SEA SJU SLC SNA TPA
 
masseybrown
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:00 am

DoT posted March data. CLE domestic boardings were 411.6K up 5.4% over March, '18. a nice bump up over the very small increases shown in Jan and Feb. Firat quarter domestic boardings were 1043.0 million up from 1010.3 million and up 3.25%. 10 million total traffic for the year looks possible..
 
avtcle
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:03 pm

Icelandair is dropping Tampa from its network — looks like it’s due to the MAX grounding as well.

It’s crazy to think that the grounding of one aircraft type has forced Icelandair to drop 3 destinations.
(Halifax, Cleveland, and now Tampa)
 
masseybrown
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:27 pm

masseybrown wrote:
DoT posted March data. CLE domestic boardings were 411.6K up 5.4% over March, '18. a nice bump up over the very small increases shown in Jan and Feb. First quarter domestic boardings were 1043.0 million up from 1010.3 million and up 3.25%. 10 million total traffic for the year looks possible..


First quarter boardings have a misplaced decimal point and should read 1.043 million versus 1.010 million. :ashamed:
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:52 am

^Darn! I was certain we would break 4.2 billion pax boardings this year!
 
avtcle
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:01 pm

Frontier has extended their schedule out to March 2020. No new flights for Cleveland so far.

Here’s what is happening with Frontier in CLE:

-PBI service is set to resume on November 15, 2019 on a 4x weekly schedule

-PUJ goes on hiatus in August, and will return in December. The brief break is likely because of the unrest in the Dominican Republic.

-SAN will switch to seasonal, ending in September and resuming sometime next spring.

-SRQ will get 1 additional weekly frequency in November, and will run Sunday, Tuesday and Thursday.

-MSP, RDU, AUS, and CHS will go on hiatus in late November.

-SEA and SFO will go on hiatus in early September.
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:57 pm

^disappointing that there were no CLE adds plus a bunch stopping for the fall like SEA and SFO.....
 
SgtBarone
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:17 pm

Most of these were already scheduled to stop before winter, including SEA and SFO. The only route technically going from year-round to seasonal is SAN. But even SAN was never formally announced as year-round to begin with.
AGP ATL BCN BNA BOS CLE CLT DCA DEN FLG FLL FRA IAD IAH JAX LAX LGB MAD MCI MDW MKE MUC PHX RDU RSW SEA SJU SLC SNA TPA
 
avtcle
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:30 pm

It’s possible route additions by Frontier may come to Cleveland later on the in the summer — last year they didn’t announce PUJ, SRQ & PBI until late August.
 
Luckyleaf6
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:38 pm

FWIW

Flew MSP to CLE via F9, drove to Pittsburgh. Impossible to resist the low fares. My thoughts on my first Cleveland airport experience:

The good:

Convenient access to 480 and within driving distance to several big cities.
Nice small airport, clean, nice layout.

The bad:

The wait at security was very long and we got shuffled out of the east (or is it north?) security line because of a "shift change" in TSA agents. We were assured "There are no lines at the west checkpoint" only to find a very large wait at the west checkpoint.

The ugly:

You have to take a shuttle to the rental car area? C'mon man.
 
greenair727
Posts: 1210
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:41 pm

^That's crazy about changing lines because of a TSA shift change. Re a rental car shuttle, that's pretty standard all over the US. I don't think its such a big deal. Before the current set up there were shuttles for each company cruising around--Avis, Budget, Dollar, etc....
 
avtcle
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:28 pm

Omni Air International Boeing 767 is on the ground in Cleveland. Just arrived from Belgrade.
 
ncflyer
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:06 pm

Luckyleaf you’re too kind. You must have had your eyes closed when you approached the airport, when you faced the now long vacant concourse D, and you must not have used the undersized and non-ventilated restrooms. Plus you can’t exit directly from terminal A when you get back on F9, it’s a circuitous Walk.

I can’t fault the airport for TSA shenanigans— what you experienced is very bush league. If CLE is ever rebuilt it’s small enough to have a single larger checkpoint.
 
avtcle
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:20 pm

I wouldn’t consider Concourse D, in a sense, an “eyesore” to the airport. The terminal has been kept in relatively good condition, and actually isn’t that old. It was only built in 1999. The airport wasn’t designed for the type of traffic we receive now, and the city has extremely limited space to work with. You can’t fault them for that. Any redesign of the airport would only inconvenience travelers further, being that there’s no room to build new. Any renevations would result in the shutdown of certain parts of the terminal. Getting a master plan in order and getting the billions in funding necessary isn’t an easy or quick process. I’m confident the airport will have a firm plan in place to expand and renevate the current facilities to help cater better to O&D traffic rather than connecting. It’s just the simple fact that Hopkins was never designed to serve 10 million origin and destinations passengers every year— that’s putting a lot more stress on their facilities than their once was.
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:34 am

ncflyer wrote:
... If CLE is ever rebuilt it’s small enough to have a single larger checkpoint.


You never want a single point of failure and should never design for one. 3 or more checkpoints is ideal.
 
ncflyer
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:36 am

Avtcle love your optimism for an airport with a history of patchwork— you’re 100% right patience is warranted. I really hope Kennedy outlasts the Jackson administration— continuity is absolutely critical and has been seriously lacking. Unfortunately with current airport governance it’s a political appointment and the next mayor may choose a different direction for whatever reason.

Greenair I don’t agree. Law of large numbers better to smooth demand across one large checkpoint not three smaller ones. It’s not like a single checkpoint only has one machine— there’s redundancy within a checkpoint. In cleveland it’s even odder due to space constraints I assume, the most central checkpoint is only precheck, A has no precheck (and no exit) C has both (I don’t fly C often enough to know if precheck is always open on C).
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:13 pm

^If you had to suddenly and quickly evacuate the terminal, other than letting people exit onto the airfield, would you rather then egress from the closest of three accessways or all travel to one location to exit? In large areas or volumes of people, distribution of access points is critical.
 
masseybrown
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:57 pm

Anecdotal evidence that Croatia and Ireland are Cleveland's "in" destinations for the summer. Maybe I should send this citation to Aer Lingus and Croatia Airlines.

https://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-he ... TopFeature
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:53 pm

^Please do!
 
masseybrown
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:37 pm

FAA throws CLE $20.3 million for runway/taxiway improvements and snow removal equipment.

https://www.faa.gov/airports/aip/granta ... ounced.pdf
 
avtcle
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:23 pm

CLE says they’re “announcing something” with Frontier Airlines at the airport today! Hopefully the new winter routes we’ve been waiting for!
 
HPAEAA
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:29 pm

For anyone interested it looks like CLE is one of the final AA MD80 stations, last CLE departure is the early morning flight on Sept 4th right before the final MD80 flight leaves DFW for ORD...
http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/20 ... fault.aspx
1.4mm and counting...
 
masseybrown
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:07 pm

avtcle wrote:
CLE says they’re “announcing something” with Frontier Airlines at the airport today! Hopefully the new winter routes we’ve been waiting for!



Starting 10/10/19
CLE-FLL on TuThSu
CLE-MIA on MoWeFrSa

https://news.flyfrontier.com/frontier-a ... las-vegas/

And from Susan Glaser's article:

Frontier also announced increased service to several popular existing routes, also starting in October:

* Service to both Fort Myers and Tampa will increase to twice daily, up from once-a-day.

* Service to Orlando will increase to twice daily, up from nine times per week.

* And service to Las Vegas will increase to 10 times per week, up from once daily.

https://www.cleveland.com/business/2019 ... pkins.html
Last edited by masseybrown on Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
masseybrown
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:18 pm

HPAEAA wrote:
For anyone interested it looks like CLE is one of the final AA MD80 stations, last CLE departure is the early morning flight on Sept 4th right before the final MD80 flight leaves DFW for ORD...
http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/20 ... fault.aspx


Looks as if AA is also upgauging twice-daily CLE-MIA from E-140s to E-175s that day also. That should make a lot of people happy.
 
ncflyer
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:55 pm

https://www.cleveland.com/business/2019 ... pkins.html

Nice pickups including double daily to MCO and finally some decent capacity to MIA. But FLL— hope that doesn’t chase B6 away from the route like how they left DTW and PIT. B6 has good connections.
 
avtcle
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:55 pm

masseybrown wrote:
HPAEAA wrote:
For anyone interested it looks like CLE is one of the final AA MD80 stations, last CLE departure is the early morning flight on Sept 4th right before the final MD80 flight leaves DFW for ORD...
http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/20 ... fault.aspx


Looks as if AA is also upgauging twice-daily CLE-MIA from E-140s to E-175s that day also. That should make a lot of people happy.


I recall they did the same thing when Frontier hopped into the MIA market in 2017. This past winter AA didn’t operate the E175s from CLE to MIA.
 
ncflyer
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:00 pm

Wonder where CLE ranks for F9 stations. Behind Den MCO and LAS but maybe that’s it?? Never thought there’d be a day where they fly mostly A321s and more destinations than UA (albeit not daily).
 
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Runway28L
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:23 pm

masseybrown wrote:
HPAEAA wrote:
For anyone interested it looks like CLE is one of the final AA MD80 stations, last CLE departure is the early morning flight on Sept 4th right before the final MD80 flight leaves DFW for ORD...
http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/20 ... fault.aspx


Looks as if AA is also upgauging twice-daily CLE-MIA from E-140s to E-175s that day also. That should make a lot of people happy.

AA has some brutally long flights out of MIA that are on E145s. I believe MIA-CLE is the longest ERJ route in the entire AA network, so this is definitely a nice upgrade.

ncflyer wrote:
https://www.cleveland.com/business/2019/06/frontier-airlines-to-restart-service-to-fort-lauderdale-miami-from-cleveland-hopkins.html

Nice pickups including double daily to MCO and finally some decent capacity to MIA. But FLL— hope that doesn’t chase B6 away from the route like how they left DTW and PIT. B6 has good connections.

And given what happened with B6 on FLL-PIT when NK went daily, I wouldn’t be surprised if B6 bails out on this route soon.
Greetings from KPIT! Check out my photos here: https://www.airliners.net/search?user=45 ... teAccepted
 
Geowizical
Posts: 41
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:27 pm

ncflyer wrote:
Wonder where CLE ranks for F9 stations. Behind Den MCO and LAS but maybe that’s it?? Never thought there’d be a day where they fly mostly A321s and more destinations than UA (albeit not daily).


If I’ve done this correctly, the order of Hubs/Focus cities by number of destinations for F9 is as follows (not taking into account A319 vs 20 vs 21, or flights per week):
DEN - 101 (68 year round)
MCO - 56 (47 year round)
LAS - 35 (34 year round)
PHL - 31 (17 year round)
RDU - 30 (8 year round)
CVG - 23 (9 year round)
ORD - 21 (14 year round)
CLE - 19 (9 year round)*
AUS - 19 (11 year round)
ATL - 17 (11 year round)
TTN - 15 (8 year round)

*I’m confused where Cleveland.com is getting 21 destinations from. F9 cut SAT and PDX, which puts us at 19. Unless they’re bringing those back for some reason...

Hope this helps for anyone’s assessment
 
avtcle
Posts: 56
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:36 pm

For 2019 it appears Cleveland will surpass ORD, CVG, and AUS in available seats and number of flights. Frontiers CVG network still has a lot of 3-4x weekly routes with majority A320 aircraft.
 
ncflyer
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:38 pm

Good stuff geowizical. I think CLE gains in the rankings on flights and certainly seats but it appears that we are farther from #4 than I thought.
 
avtcle
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:39 pm

I love JetBlue — such a unique carrier. Would be a shame if they dropped the route but let’s not jump to conclusions. They have a significant following in Cleveland and the route consistently performs well even with the existing competition.
 
Robert1010
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:23 pm

Hopefully EI makes a announcement, then maybe Jet blue or Frontier can bank some FL flts after its arrival to help loads ! I think Jet Blue and EI have a codeshare !
 
SgtBarone
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:25 pm

Nice announcement. Just goes to show how much winter demand there is to Florida.
AGP ATL BCN BNA BOS CLE CLT DCA DEN FLG FLL FRA IAD IAH JAX LAX LGB MAD MCI MDW MKE MUC PHX RDU RSW SEA SJU SLC SNA TPA
 
ncflyer
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:12 pm

it would sure help if B6 operated decently. According to flightstats the fll to CLE flight, which is already scheduled for a midnight arrival, is only on time 50% and is excessively late 30% over the last 60 days— not a way to win repeat business on such a competitive route.

avtcle wrote:
I love JetBlue — such a unique carrier. Would be a shame if they dropped the route but let’s not jump to conclusions. They have a significant following in Cleveland and the route consistently performs well even with the existing competition.
 
tphuang
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:29 pm

B6 is not exiting cle FLL. The performance is decent.
 
ncflyer
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:57 am

tphuang wrote:
B6 is not exiting cle FLL. The performance is decent.


At some point the market is over saturated. F9 Must be pleased with their CLE following and confident they can take market share. B6 absolutely atrocious operationally on this route, 80 minutes late tonight which is so typical, I haven’t figured out if this plane is routed through JFK each day and that’s why it has 30% excessive delay rate. When FLL yield and load performance has been posted in the B6 thread I didn’t see that much difference between CLE DTW PIT.
 
tphuang
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:24 am

ncflyer wrote:
tphuang wrote:
B6 is not exiting cle FLL. The performance is decent.


At some point the market is over saturated. F9 Must be pleased with their CLE following and confident they can take market share. B6 absolutely atrocious operationally on this route, 80 minutes late tonight which is so typical, I haven’t figured out if this plane is routed through JFK each day and that’s why it has 30% excessive delay rate. When FLL yield and load performance has been posted in the B6 thread I didn’t see that much difference between CLE DTW PIT.

Based on my xls sheet, this is not imo a route to worry about. Most importantly at dtw and pit, they were sandwiched by nk and wn or delta. No such problems here.

I don't see why otp issue would matter now. It's not as if they are getting any worse.
 
avtcle
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:01 pm

Seeing frontier re-enter these markets gives me some hope for summer 2020 expansion. They’re showing that they’re willing to try out old routes with existing competition again. Perhaps we could see the return of Frontier service from Cleveland to Atlanta, Los Angeles, Chicago, New York (LGA), and Philly.
 
ncflyer
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:52 pm

And to your list 3x or 4x weekly to PDX would be a nice return. This is a market with very high fares right now.
 
avtcle
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:24 pm

IMO Frontier’s decision to shift their PDX flight to SFO was a bad move. They had control of the PDX market and they had generally high fares there — but we’re still able to undercut the competition. Loads were good but I guess they thought they could make more money at SFO... I have a feeling they’ll shift it back to PDX next summer.
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:16 pm

Just curious, did CLE pay the ransomware for the hacking a few months ago or resolve it otherwise? I hope they didn't pay them, but was curious. I know the city is not good about being transparent/honest about this topic....

https://www.msspalert.com/cybersecurity ... s-hackers/
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:46 pm

from the PD: "The single biggest grant, one for more than $14.9 million, will pay for improvements to taxiways at Hopkins. It is part of a four-phase project to replace taxiways that angle between runways with taxiways that meet the runways at right angles. The sharper turns are preferred by the FAA because they force planes to move slowly and more carefully, said airport chief Robert Kennedy."

Bad writing and editing (as is usual nowadays from the PD) or per Kennedy, Cleveland is doing the opposite of what FAA prefers? A runway turnoff at 150 degrees is only 30 degrees if landing in the opposite direction. 30 degrees is a much harder turn than 90 degrees.

https://www.cleveland.com/cityhall/2019 ... rport.html
 
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CLEguy
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:39 pm

greenair727 wrote:
from the PD: "The single biggest grant, one for more than $14.9 million, will pay for improvements to taxiways at Hopkins. It is part of a four-phase project to replace taxiways that angle between runways with taxiways that meet the runways at right angles. The sharper turns are preferred by the FAA because they force planes to move slowly and more carefully, said airport chief Robert Kennedy."

Bad writing and editing (as is usual nowadays from the PD) or per Kennedy, Cleveland is doing the opposite of what FAA prefers? A runway turnoff at 150 degrees is only 30 degrees if landing in the opposite direction. 30 degrees is a much harder turn than 90 degrees.

https://www.cleveland.com/cityhall/2019 ... rport.html


My reading is that they are replacing more sharply angled taxiways with taxiways at right angles. Isn't that what the article says? Now I'm not exactly sure about the premise or what the FAA actually recommends. Any pilots out there?
 
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Groyd
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:44 am

CLEguy wrote:
greenair727 wrote:
from the PD: "The single biggest grant, one for more than $14.9 million, will pay for improvements to taxiways at Hopkins. It is part of a four-phase project to replace taxiways that angle between runways with taxiways that meet the runways at right angles. The sharper turns are preferred by the FAA because they force planes to move slowly and more carefully, said airport chief Robert Kennedy."

Bad writing and editing (as is usual nowadays from the PD) or per Kennedy, Cleveland is doing the opposite of what FAA prefers? A runway turnoff at 150 degrees is only 30 degrees if landing in the opposite direction. 30 degrees is a much harder turn than 90 degrees.

https://www.cleveland.com/cityhall/2019 ... rport.html


My reading is that they are replacing more sharply angled taxiways with taxiways at right angles. Isn't that what the article says? Now I'm not exactly sure about the premise or what the FAA actually recommends. Any pilots out there?


And then it goes on to contradict that and mention Robert Kennedy saying that the FAA recommends angled taxiways because they help pilots stay cautious and not speed while taxiing?
 
goCOgo
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:11 pm

Well, if anyone wants to see FAA's guidelines, they are in chapter 4 here: https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/med ... 201804.pdf

Definitely some issues are easy to see. Some intersections violate the "three node principle" (i.e. intersections should only offer a choice of right, left, or straight), and several apron taxiways lead directly to runways if a turn is missed. And it is made clear that 90 degree taxiways are preferred, except in the case 30 degree high-speed exits.
"Why you fly is your business, how you fly is ours"
 
avtcle
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:57 pm

https://www.united.com/ual/en/us/fly/tr ... ation.html

Looks like CLE is once again the test subject for some new gate innovations that United is introducing!
 
masseybrown
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:03 pm

CLE's CATS report was filed two days early. (I take this as a good sign.) Highlights:

Category .........2017 ...2018
Pax revenue ..75.8 .....76.15 million
Non-pax rev ....12.1 .....12.8 million
Total revenue ..145.7 ,.. 146.5 million
Operating exp .138.9 ... 138.7 million
Oper. Income ...6.7 ....... 7.8 million
Non-op rev. .....22.8 ..... 19.9 million
Debt ..............684.6 .... 675.2 million
Landing fee ..... 5.74 .... 6.15
CPE ...............17.13 ... 14.97
Mkting/promo.....854 .....800 thousand

Debt didn't fall as much as I expected, but that may reflect timing of redemptions and rollovers. The drop in CPE is a nice indicator. I'm assuming the marketing/promo amount includes cash outlay incentives to the Icelanders.
 
CleSyrRoc
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:01 pm

Flew CLE-IAD-ZRH last week on united. Very good experience overall. Some observations:

I took UA 667 on a 739 CLE IAD on tuesday afternoon. The flight was completely full. Of the 179 passengers on board, 141 were connecting to another flight! Couldn't help but to think this was more anecdotal evidence that UA is trying to push more connections over IAD instead of EWR.

I got back in on Sunday night on UA 939. Yet another 739 that was nearly full, and couldn't believe how busy the airport was. The terminals were flush with people, the restaurants were full of customers, and the baggage claim was busy as well. The UA ramp was full and bustling. An arriving RJ actually had to wait for a gate to open up. It really is nice to see, it wasn't too long ago I expected CLE to be pretty quiet when I arrived at a similar time.

Lots of adds up for the Alstar Game.

An AA ERJ looked like it was going to RON at concourse D.

Lots of construction clearly going on in the area of runway 6L-24R. Would be interesting to see a map/drawing of the final layout.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:54 pm

With these one-stops I wonder if they will make CLE-PIT bookable:

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