VetteDude
Posts: 83
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 4:13 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:04 am

ncflyer wrote:
https://www.cleveland.com/opinion/2019/07/no-to-cuyahoga-county-bed-tax-increase-for-now-yes-to-a-less-piecemeal-approach-to-local-taxation-editorial.html

Nice to see the PD planting a seed regarding airport modernization. They seem to be the only ones. Best I can tell a master facility plan vendor hasn’t been selected yet that seems slow to me.


Pretty pitiful article though. The comments are overwhelmingly against any airport upgrades. The prevailing attitude is that it doesn't matter at all, you can tell most people that hang out there don't travel out of Cleveland. Ever.

Also, hilarious how the only reason the PD is against the tax increases is because they don't hit enough of us that don't live in Cuyahoga county. Since Ohio is one of the few states with municipal income tax, and since Cleveland takes 2.5% of everyone that works in the city's pay, they most certainly do not have a revenue problem.
 
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CLEguy
Posts: 246
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 03, 2019 11:58 am

VetteDude wrote:
ncflyer wrote:
https://www.cleveland.com/opinion/2019/07/no-to-cuyahoga-county-bed-tax-increase-for-now-yes-to-a-less-piecemeal-approach-to-local-taxation-editorial.html

Nice to see the PD planting a seed regarding airport modernization. They seem to be the only ones. Best I can tell a master facility plan vendor hasn’t been selected yet that seems slow to me.


Pretty pitiful article though. The comments are overwhelmingly against any airport upgrades. The prevailing attitude is that it doesn't matter at all, you can tell most people that hang out there don't travel out of Cleveland. Ever.

Also, hilarious how the only reason the PD is against the tax increases is because they don't hit enough of us that don't live in Cuyahoga county. Since Ohio is one of the few states with municipal income tax, and since Cleveland takes 2.5% of everyone that works in the city's pay, they most certainly do not have a revenue problem.


Just a minor correction, the income tax rate in Cleveland is 2.0%.
 
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CLEguy
Posts: 246
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:11 pm

737MAX7 wrote:
CLE saw it’s first 787-10 tonight as their TLV-EWR flight diverted. It was also joined by a UA 763 from TXL.


Crew timed out and they cleared customs in CLE. Local guy bought them Kosher food. Nice story!

https://www.cleveland.com/business/2019 ... f04UNzzlPY
 
VetteDude
Posts: 83
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 4:13 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:41 pm

CLEguy wrote:
VetteDude wrote:
ncflyer wrote:
https://www.cleveland.com/opinion/2019/07/no-to-cuyahoga-county-bed-tax-increase-for-now-yes-to-a-less-piecemeal-approach-to-local-taxation-editorial.html

Nice to see the PD planting a seed regarding airport modernization. They seem to be the only ones. Best I can tell a master facility plan vendor hasn’t been selected yet that seems slow to me.


Pretty pitiful article though. The comments are overwhelmingly against any airport upgrades. The prevailing attitude is that it doesn't matter at all, you can tell most people that hang out there don't travel out of Cleveland. Ever.

Also, hilarious how the only reason the PD is against the tax increases is because they don't hit enough of us that don't live in Cuyahoga county. Since Ohio is one of the few states with municipal income tax, and since Cleveland takes 2.5% of everyone that works in the city's pay, they most certainly do not have a revenue problem.


Just a minor correction, the income tax rate in Cleveland is 2.0%.


Nope. It used to be but in 2017 it raised to 2.5%. See the chart from CCA: http://ccatax.ci.cleveland.oh.us/?p=taxrates
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:31 pm

If they are talking about the hotel bed tax, I can see why they are against it. I used to coordinate travel for my employer and Cleveland hotel taxes (and car rental taxes) are too high already. We would purposely put travelers in the suburbs and rented cars from anywhere but the airport. I'm sure other companies don't want 20 to 30% added to each bill.
300 319 320 321 707 717 720 727 72S 737 73S 734 735 73G 738 739 747 757 762 ARJ B11 C212 CRJ CR2 CR7 CR9 CV5 D8S DC9 D9S D94 D95 D10 DH8 DTO EMB EM2 E135 E145 E190 FH7 F28 F100 FTRIMTR HRN L10 L15 M80 M90 SF3 SWM
 
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CLEguy
Posts: 246
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 03, 2019 6:47 pm

VetteDude wrote:
CLEguy wrote:
VetteDude wrote:

Pretty pitiful article though. The comments are overwhelmingly against any airport upgrades. The prevailing attitude is that it doesn't matter at all, you can tell most people that hang out there don't travel out of Cleveland. Ever.

Also, hilarious how the only reason the PD is against the tax increases is because they don't hit enough of us that don't live in Cuyahoga county. Since Ohio is one of the few states with municipal income tax, and since Cleveland takes 2.5% of everyone that works in the city's pay, they most certainly do not have a revenue problem.


Just a minor correction, the income tax rate in Cleveland is 2.0%.


Nope. It used to be but in 2017 it raised to 2.5%. See the chart from CCA: http://ccatax.ci.cleveland.oh.us/?p=taxrates


Thanks! I deal with RITA and my city has a "tax treaty" with Cleveland, so I don't pay too much attention.
 
joeman
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:19 pm

In the "Aer Lingus Commences A321LR Transatlantic Fllights" thread a post follows:

Vladex wrote:
A321 neo destinations Portland, Cleveland, Buffalo, Burlington, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Baltimore?

followed by a reply:
Cleveland is expected for Summer 2020

Wonder if it's speculation or expectation
 
avtcle
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:21 am

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:54 pm

joeman wrote:
In the "Aer Lingus Commences A321LR Transatlantic Fllights" thread a post follows:

Vladex wrote:
A321 neo destinations Portland, Cleveland, Buffalo, Burlington, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Baltimore?

followed by a reply:
Cleveland is expected for Summer 2020

Wonder if it's speculation or expectation



Cleveland makes a lot of sense for Aer Lingus.... Pittsburgh? Maybe... but you have to think that they already have 2 European carriers servicing their airport, and there’s limited demand to Europe from both Pittsburgh and Cleveland. Delta canceled PIT-CDG simply because they knew the market would be too saturated and prices would be too low — not because the route was doing bad. Cleveland is an untapped market with proven demand. They should take advantage of it!
 
Trk1
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:16 am

This is not good for Cleveland. Service to European mainland is what is an add. How is a connection in Dublin any better than Washington Dulles/Charlotte/Detroit/Toronto??
 
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CLEguy
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:35 am

Trk1 wrote:
This is not good for Cleveland. Service to European mainland is what is an add. How is a connection in Dublin any better than Washington Dulles/Charlotte/Detroit/Toronto??


For one thing, DUB is an easy to navigate hub with decent connections to mainland Europe. For another, it offers US Pre-Clearance, so flights would arrive at CLE as a domestic flight. It sure beats transiting one of the megahubs, in my opinion. Obviously, a nonstop to LHR, CDG, AMS, or FRA would offer significant connectivity to other parts of the world, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.
 
Robert1010
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:15 pm

If CLE were to hopefully land EI for summer 2020 you would think an announcement would be sooner than later !
 
plinth857
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:11 pm

Fiscal Year 2020 GSA City Pair contracts came out recently. A few more cities now have contracts out of CLE. American had the biggest drop in Cleveland contracts, whereas Delta had the largest growth. Probably doesn't result in a huge amount of revenue, but it's interesting to see the changes year after year.
 
Trk1
Posts: 85
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:13 pm

While Dublin has pre clearance--the airport is very crowded and has poor facilities. If you want Pre-clearance Toronto is much better and much better facilities including
a star lounge after preclearance. My last connection at IAD with Global entry and security took 10 min during the 3pm rush period on a Sunday.
 
Robert1010
Posts: 164
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:16 pm

plinth857 wrote:
Fiscal Year 2020 GSA City Pair contracts came out recently. A few more cities now have contracts out of CLE. American had the biggest drop in Cleveland contracts, whereas Delta had the largest growth. Probably doesn't result in a huge amount of revenue, but it's interesting to see the changes year after year.


Funny you mention Delta ! Was listening to 850am ESPN CLE this morning and heard the Delta commercial at least 5x , nice to see them advertising! It’s Always been UA in the past naturally!
 
avtcle
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:22 pm

Trk1 wrote:
While Dublin has pre clearance--the airport is very crowded and has poor facilities. If you want Pre-clearance Toronto is much better and much better facilities including
a star lounge after preclearance. My last connection at IAD with Global entry and security took 10 min during the 3pm rush period on a Sunday.


Toronto is wildly expensive to fly out of and certainly isn’t pulling a lot of traffic from Cleveland... Being able to fly directly into Europe from Cleveland is attractive for a number of reasons:

Cheaper, more efficient, shorter connecting flights and greater access beyond Europe + Asia. Dublin in itself would be a great nonstop from Cleveland for business travelers — especially those with manufacturing giant Eaton (who has their operational HQ in CLE), who have their corporate headquarters in Dublin. Reykjavik did well with comparatively minimal connection options, so Dublin would be bound to to better.
 
avtcle
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:27 pm

Robert1010 wrote:
If CLE were to hopefully land EI for summer 2020 you would think an announcement would be sooner than later !


Aer Lingus typically releases new summer routes for the upcoming year in late August/early September
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:57 pm

^If this is the case, we should hear something in about a month? That would be very welcome news.
 
Trk1
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:20 pm

Fares to Europe via Toronto are among the cheapest available. Dublin airport is not very nice and very crowded with very poor lounge facilities for business travelers
connecting. Eaton does not generate enough passengers from Cleveland to generate one flight every 2 weeks. Remember that the passengers that filled the connecting flights via Iceland last year did so on fares that did not produce a profit. Any new flights to Europe will be much higher so that they make a profit and that would include anything thru Dublin.
 
avtcle
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:42 pm

greenair727 wrote:
^If this is the case, we should hear something in about a month? That would be very welcome news.


If everything stays on schedule in regards to 321LR deliveries we should expect to hear something within a month... Last year they also released a “shortlist” of cities that were in the running about 2 weeks before they chose — so we should know sooner than later!
 
joeman
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:47 pm

Trk1 wrote:
Fares to Europe via Toronto are among the cheapest available....

But not CLE- YYZ. I have such a problem with roundtrip airfares between CLE and Toronto. I checked Google flights for lowest nonstop AC roundtrip airfares for a 9/6/19-9/13/19 time frame:
CLE $726
CMH $656
STL $577
SFO $539
PIT $406
CLT $387
LGA $360
LAX $360
ATL $310
ORD $266

So happy not to hear our hub gurus blessed with ample service drone on about the stimulating low air fares boosting CLE passenger levels after the UA hub dismantling lately.
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:55 pm

^That's crazy. I avoid AC altogether even when CLE-Europe via YYZ is the cheapest, I skip it to avoid AC. But those fare above are insane. Even CLE-YUL on those dates is cheaper on AA or AC though they require a connection. YUL used to be more expensive than YYZ (in days since CO/UA dropped CLE-YUL.)
 
Trk1
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:48 pm

Who cares about Cle to YYZ fares---the topic is Europe
 
joeman
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:03 pm

Trk1 wrote:
Who cares about Cle to YYZ fares---the topic is Europe

The title of this thread is "Cleveland Aviation Thread 2019", in my opinion the latest Aer Lingus/Dublin debate was well covered, but please continue the positive vs. negative Aer Lingus and Dublin discussion going if you like...or anything else Europe (only?)...
 
ncflyer
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:44 pm

Another big problem in connecting in YyZ as compared to so many other places like Dublin is the operating performance of the CLE YYZ leg. It is absolutely dreadful especially in the winter.

Great research JoeMan I’d love to know what’s behind it. Hard to imagine the flight is that much in demand when it’s such an easy drive.
 
Robert1010
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:40 am

Safe to say if we do not hear from EI by Oct/Nov that this will be a dead topic !
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:59 am

joeman wrote:
So happy not to hear our hub gurus blessed with ample service drone on about the stimulating low air fares boosting CLE passenger levels after the UA hub dismantling lately.


To be fair CLE has low fares compared to its peers:
https://www.transtats.bts.gov/AverageFare/
Q1 2019
STL-$367.79
IND-$363.94
CMH-$357.69
PIT-$352.35
CVG-$342.10
CLE-$323.39

FY 2018
STL-$363.48
CMH-$357.79
PIT-$349.92
IND-$346.15
CVG-$320.78
CLE-$319.80
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
ncflyer
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:23 am

Gotta be the F9/NK effect in CLE. . . .both are thriving, and both are way, way cheaper than WN, it's not even close. On teh other hand, WN is relatively much stronger in the other cities on your list outside of CVG. No daily WN from CLE to anywhere in Florida for example.
 
swacle
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:26 pm

So I just searched for Tim Hortons near Cleveland (to see if they have announced any more locations in the area) and the 2nd result was Cleveland Hopkins. Now, I am at the airport 5 days a week and have not seen or heard anything about a Tim Hortons going in here, but anyone have a contact that may know more? There are a couple vacant spaces they could go down C.
Aircraft Flown: SF3 DH8 DH4 328 ERJ CRJ CR7 CR9 E70 E75 D9S M80 712 72S 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 739ER 752 318 319 32
 
cledaybuck
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:33 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
joeman wrote:
So happy not to hear our hub gurus blessed with ample service drone on about the stimulating low air fares boosting CLE passenger levels after the UA hub dismantling lately.


To be fair CLE has low fares compared to its peers:
https://www.transtats.bts.gov/AverageFare/
Q1 2019
STL-$367.79
IND-$363.94
CMH-$357.69
PIT-$352.35
CVG-$342.10
CLE-$323.39

FY 2018
STL-$363.48
CMH-$357.79
PIT-$349.92
IND-$346.15
CVG-$320.78
CLE-$319.80

Seeing CLE and CVG at the bottom of that list sure is a switch from a few years ago.
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
joeman
Posts: 820
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:12 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
joeman wrote:
So happy not to hear our hub gurus blessed with ample service drone on about the stimulating low air fares boosting CLE passenger levels after the UA hub dismantling lately.


To be fair CLE has low fares compared to its peers:
https://www.transtats.bts.gov/AverageFare/
Q1 2019
STL-$367.79
IND-$363.94
CMH-$357.69
PIT-$352.35
CVG-$342.10
CLE-$323.39

FY 2018
STL-$363.48
CMH-$357.79
PIT-$349.92
IND-$346.15
CVG-$320.78
CLE-$319.80

Seeing CLE and CVG at the bottom of that list sure is a switch from a few years ago.


I very much agree and of course concur lower airfares stimulated the market. Specifically looking at average airfares at current 'hub" locations (as I was originally kinda mocking) not so bad except for those maybe nearer to $400 and above. I'd be pleasantly surprised if CLE airfares were near the bottom during the UA days
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1487
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:32 pm

joeman wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

To be fair CLE has low fares compared to its peers:
https://www.transtats.bts.gov/AverageFare/
Q1 2019
STL-$367.79
IND-$363.94
CMH-$357.69
PIT-$352.35
CVG-$342.10
CLE-$323.39

FY 2018
STL-$363.48
CMH-$357.79
PIT-$349.92
IND-$346.15
CVG-$320.78
CLE-$319.80

Seeing CLE and CVG at the bottom of that list sure is a switch from a few years ago.


I very much agree and of course concur lower airfares stimulated the market. Specifically looking at average airfares at current 'hub" locations (as I was originally kinda mocking) not so bad except for those maybe nearer to $400 and above. I'd be pleasantly surprised if CLE airfares were near the bottom during the UA days


Here are those same airports in 2013, the last full year of the CLE hub.

CVG-$520.06
CLE-$453.09
IND-$396.13
CMH-$395.07
PIT-$389.16
STL-$361.03
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
avtcle
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:43 pm

Midwest Express Airlines is planning to open their reservations system in the coming weeks with plans to begin initial service from Milwaukee by the end of the year... I wonder if they'll give Cleveland a shot even with SWA now controlling that market... A business oriented carrier may be more attractive for that route -- and of course it would be cool to see Midwest Express colors back in Cleveland. Just a thought!
 
masseybrown
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:00 pm

avtcle wrote:
... of course it would be cool to see Midwest Express colors back in Cleveland. Just a thought!


Especially if they bring back the chocolate chip cookies. Another thread says they will use CR2's or CR7's operated by Elite Air. I doubt they will take on WN to CLE first thing, but maybe after they get a little hublet going.
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:20 pm

Would like to see them back at BKL. And this way, it would be a different product in a way compared to what WN is offering. Their historic BKL service was BKL-Detroit-MKE, but BKL-MKE and a BKL-Detroit would be great to see. I think they served DET over DTW, but not sure.
 
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CLEguy
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:04 pm

greenair727 wrote:
Would like to see them back at BKL. And this way, it would be a different product in a way compared to what WN is offering. Their historic BKL service was BKL-Detroit-MKE, but BKL-MKE and a BKL-Detroit would be great to see. I think they served DET over DTW, but not sure.


Did Midwest Express ever fly to/from BKL? I don't remember that. The original Midway did fly BKL-MDW before switching service to CLE (due to operational concerns with poor visibility before BKL had an ILS).
 
joeman
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:43 pm

CLEguy wrote:
greenair727 wrote:
Would like to see them back at BKL. And this way, it would be a different product in a way compared to what WN is offering. Their historic BKL service was BKL-Detroit-MKE, but BKL-MKE and a BKL-Detroit would be great to see. I think they served DET over DTW, but not sure.


Did Midwest Express ever fly to/from BKL? I don't remember that. The original Midway did fly BKL-MDW before switching service to CLE (due to operational concerns with poor visibility before BKL had an ILS).

I believe greenair727 is right...a regional partner with Beechcrraft 1900?... for a while as opposed to their CLE ops, don't know the time frame
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:35 pm

I don't know the dates in which they served Burke using Skyway, but I dug up an old City Flight Guide--May 15, 1992--and they had five flights a day (M-F) from BKL to DET (Detroit City). They weren't the only ones at BKL---Cincy-based Air Alpha also flew from BKL to DET 2x daily (M-F). And USAir, Continental, and Northwest flew CLE-DTW. Total number of daily weekday flights between the two cities was 23 per direction.

I took a photo of the page--was going to upload it here as its pretty interesting, but I can't figure out how to upload an image---anyone know?
 
Robert1010
Posts: 164
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:46 pm

Looks like CLE got some diversions !

UA-SFO-IAD 777
UA-PEK-IAD 777
UA-FRA-IAD 777
DL-SLC-JFK 752
2x AA -? - PHL A321
 
avtcle
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:21 am

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:22 am

Robert1010 wrote:
Looks like CLE got some diversions !

UA-SFO-IAD 777
UA-PEK-IAD 777
UA-FRA-IAD 777
DL-SLC-JFK 752
2x AA -? - PHL A321


Looks like AA 321s were from Denver and San Diego
Delta 757 diverted to Cleveland as well after originally planning to divert to BUF... wonder what the reasoning behind that was. This certainly has set up an incredible few weeks for photographers! 787-X a few days back and now 3 777s
 
masseybrown
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:05 pm

Speaking of Delta, looking at the CLE site right now, the flight status window showed 7 Delta flights using 7 different gates within a two hour period. B2,3,4,and 6 (no surprise) and then also A9, A11, and A12. That's potentially got the ramp crew spread all over a lot of real estate. Or does Delta contract out the ramp in CLE?
 
HPAEAA
Posts: 1100
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 7:24 am

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:11 pm

masseybrown wrote:
Speaking of Delta, looking at the CLE site right now, the flight status window showed 7 Delta flights using 7 different gates within a two hour period. B2,3,4,and 6 (no surprise) and then also A9, A11, and A12. That's potentially got the ramp crew spread all over a lot of real estate. Or does Delta contract out the ramp in CLE?

I believe it’s handled by DGS. I’ve noticed the congestion as well arriving in on DL Rons, I wonder if they’ll eventually reshuffle gates and either move to another concourse or pay WN to move..
1.4mm and counting...
 
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CLEguy
Posts: 246
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:16 pm

HPAEAA wrote:
masseybrown wrote:
Speaking of Delta, looking at the CLE site right now, the flight status window showed 7 Delta flights using 7 different gates within a two hour period. B2,3,4,and 6 (no surprise) and then also A9, A11, and A12. That's potentially got the ramp crew spread all over a lot of real estate. Or does Delta contract out the ramp in CLE?

I believe it’s handled by DGS. I’ve noticed the congestion as well arriving in on DL Rons, I wonder if they’ll eventually reshuffle gates and either move to another concourse or pay WN to move..


Where would WN move to? They currently have 5 gates (B7-B11) and have recently needed as many as 6 (B3). There are not 5-6 contiguous gates in one concourse open at CLE, other than on the mothballed D.
 
greenair727
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Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:27 am

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:36 am

^WN needs more space. DL needs more space. Other than a full re-do of Concourse D, would it make sense for either WN or DL to move to BKL? Either airline would have almost the entire terminal, with the exception of Utlimate Air. When WN first came to Cleveland, they were initially planning to go to Burke and not Hopkins.
 
CleSyrRoc
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue May 21, 2019 2:47 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:47 am

If growth at Hopkins continues, It will be interesting to see if speculation on the possibility of re-opening concourse D becomes more legitimate.

In other news, new video on youtube (not my own) that appears to show 6L-24R has re-opened. In the video, there are also departures off of 6L-24R, which might indicate 6R-24L has closed for some construction. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-svS-rH7phY

Also great footage of a 787-10 diversion into CLE.
 
Gulfstream500
Posts: 304
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:30 am

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:57 am

greenair727 wrote:
^WN needs more space. DL needs more space. Other than a full re-do of Concourse D, would it make sense for either WN or DL to move to BKL? Either airline would have almost the entire terminal, with the exception of Utlimate Air. When WN first came to Cleveland, they were initially planning to go to Burke and not Hopkins.


Neither airline will move to Lakefront. WN has already made efforts to consolidate to CLE by cutting CAK, and DL simply does not use secondary airports in primary destinations. Not to mention that there probably is no TSA at BKL...

There's a massive shortage of gates at CLE, so once UA's lease on concourse D is up, I think that it will be dedicated to WN's operations (especially given that the concourse can handle all of the Boeing 737s and nothing larger).

Had UA given up concourse D from the start (before all of the ULCCs came in), WN probably would have set up an operation in CLE, similar to what they have in MKE, resulting in them carrying 1/3 of the CLE passengers instead of 1/5 of the passengers. We'll just have to see what happens after UA is forced to stop hoarding gates to keep fares high.
Can someone please start a wikipedia list of failed startup airlines? I am interested in seeing just how long it would be...
 
greenair727
Posts: 1235
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:27 am

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Aug 11, 2019 3:09 am

Gulfstream500 wrote:
greenair727 wrote:
^WN needs more space. DL needs more space. Other than a full re-do of Concourse D, would it make sense for either WN or DL to move to BKL? Either airline would have almost the entire terminal, with the exception of Utlimate Air. When WN first came to Cleveland, they were initially planning to go to Burke and not Hopkins.


Neither airline will move to Lakefront. WN has already made efforts to consolidate to CLE by cutting CAK, and DL simply does not use secondary airports in primary destinations. Not to mention that there probably is no TSA at BKL....


I agree the DL is less likely than WN, but for WN it makes sense.

WN made efforts to consolidate in Cleveland by cutting CAK---it just happened to be at Hopkins because that is where they were in Cleveland. Whether BKL or CLE, its the same market and Burke is where they were originally intended (under the original strategy of serving secondary airports in major cities). There is no more space at Hopkins and WN wants to grow---and operating costs for WN could be a lot lower at BKL and they'd have the entire airport to themselves--imagine the branding opportunity. Putting in some jetways and other improvements would be cheaper than spending money on reconfiguring "D" at Hopkins. Regarding TSA, they can set up shop there, just as US Customs/Agriculture goes there when needed, but TSA would be permanent shop. The upstairs at BKL could serve as gates as well, and the restaurant would need to reopen.
 
HPAEAA
Posts: 1100
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 7:24 am

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Aug 11, 2019 3:27 am

Gulfstream500 wrote:
There's a massive shortage of gates at CLE, so once UA's lease on concourse D is up, I think that it will be dedicated to WN's operations (especially given that the concourse can handle all of the Boeing 737s and nothing larger).

Had UA given up concourse D from the start (before all of the ULCCs came in), WN probably would have set up an operation in CLE, similar to what they have in MKE, resulting in them carrying 1/3 of the CLE passengers instead of 1/5 of the passengers. We'll just have to see what happens after UA is forced to stop hoarding gates to keep fares high.

Are they short gates? I thought A Concourse was pretty much all common use at this point.

Regarding D- I though that the reason UAL kept it on the lease was driven by the fact that they’re still paying off the construction debt - if they were to Give it up, the city would have to assume responsibility for it thus increasing overall expenses.
1.4mm and counting...
 
greenair727
Posts: 1235
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:27 am

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:13 am

CleSyrRoc wrote:
If growth at Hopkins continues, It will be interesting to see if speculation on the possibility of re-opening concourse D becomes more legitimate.

In other news, new video on youtube (not my own) that appears to show 6L-24R has re-opened. In the video, there are also departures off of 6L-24R, which might indicate 6R-24L has closed for some construction. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-svS-rH7phY

Also great footage of a 787-10 diversion into CLE.


Thanks for the link and RWY update. Where was that video shot from?
 
User avatar
CLEguy
Posts: 246
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 10:49 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:33 pm

HPAEAA wrote:
Gulfstream500 wrote:
There's a massive shortage of gates at CLE, so once UA's lease on concourse D is up, I think that it will be dedicated to WN's operations (especially given that the concourse can handle all of the Boeing 737s and nothing larger).

Had UA given up concourse D from the start (before all of the ULCCs came in), WN probably would have set up an operation in CLE, similar to what they have in MKE, resulting in them carrying 1/3 of the CLE passengers instead of 1/5 of the passengers. We'll just have to see what happens after UA is forced to stop hoarding gates to keep fares high.

Are they short gates? I thought A Concourse was pretty much all common use at this point.

Regarding D- I though that the reason UAL kept it on the lease was driven by the fact that they’re still paying off the construction debt - if they were to Give it up, the city would have to assume responsibility for it thus increasing overall expenses.


Most of A is common use, with certain airlines using specific gates first, then overflowing to the unassigned ones: Spirit (A2), Allegiant (A3), Frontier (A8, A10). I have not seen A1 or A6 used at all lately and A4 is gone. So that leaves A5, A7, A9, A11, A12, A14, all of which are used by a variety of carriers, including DL. A9, A11, A12, A14 can also be used for international arrivals. On B, Delta and Southwest share B3, in addition to their dedicated gates. On C, American uses most of the common use gates at the lower end of the concourse, with jetBlue using C4. UA and AC use all the rest. At times, particularly with RON's, virtually every gate is in use. I don't foresee any of the major airlines moving to BKL, but you never know. All this will have to be addressed in the upcoming airport master plan.
 
corn4ahead
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:29 am

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:07 pm

Yes, 6L/24R is open. They were initially planning to open 6L/24R and subsequently close the other parallel. That plan is on hold until Spring 2020 most likely. That being said, 6R/24L is still closing on an almost daily basis for a few hours to catch up on maintenance that was put off when the other runway was closed.

Also, all the turn offs from 6L/24R have been renamed expect for N and P. And the entire West side of the airfield has renamed taxiways as well.


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