65 deliveries over the years, 465 in the backlog.

Speeding up deliveries towards 10+ a month must be on top of the agenda for the coming years.

Not reaching delivery goals holds back sales opportunities.

How is motivation at Maribel?

Does loss of independence depress the succes of the CSeries/A220 in terms of keeping in the good people?

Airbus can throw in money, resources, sales but is totally dependent on the Canadian teams to make the A220 a success, also for setting up the Mobile FAL.



Source: https://www.skiesmag.com/news/airbus-bombardier-advise-patience-for-supply-chain-on-a220-sales/

With 465 in the backlog, and deliveries of about 30-40 a year it will take at least 10 years to clear off the backlog. With the new US production facility opening up later this year, hopefully they will be able to increase production levels. Indeed, they would need to get production up to at least 10/month before they could ever receive more large orders for this jet....no one would want to wait 10 years before receiving their order. If they produce 10/month, it would still take 4 years to get rid of the backlog, assuming no new orders.

Jetsouth wrote:

With 465 in the backlog, and deliveries of about 30-40 a year it will take at least 10 years to clear off the backlog. With the new US production facility opening up later this year, hopefully they will be able to increase production levels. Indeed, they would need to get production up to at least 10/month before they could ever receive more large orders for this jet....no one would want to wait 10 years before receiving their order. If they produce 10/month, it would still take 4 years to get rid of the backlog, assuming no new orders.

Airbus is helping PIP the aircraft (improve reliability of components) as well as increase production.

I agree production must increase to sell. All indications are that is happening.

Lightsaber

For those interested, road transport Mirabel-Mobile is 1600NM / 3 days with a single driver.

But I assume it will be 2 crew, so 2 days. For delivery reliability, security. And a third driver, if they are in a hurry.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Airbus+Final+Assembly+Line,+320+Airbus+Way,+Mobile,+AL+36615,+Verenigde+Staten/BOMBARDIER+Aeropsace,+1800+Boulevard+Marcel-Laurin,+Saint-Laurent,+QC+H4R+1J9,+Canada/@37.7522562,-89.7568187,5z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x889a4eeca7cc8155:0xdd2e149d94f5af0b!2m2!1d-88.0709981!2d30.6344282!1m5!1m1!1s0x4cc91874eb6b0711:0x57499d75d546d979!2m2!1d-73.6972547!2d45.5151865!3e0

keesje wrote:

For those intrested, road transport Mirabel-Mobile is 1600NM / 3 days

I would have thought they would ship the large fuselage parts by ship from Québec? By train? Or by Beluga?

Transporting these large fuselage sections by road, at such a distance, with a lead car in front and after the truck to signal wide transport, seems strange to me.

reidar76 wrote:

keesje wrote:

For those intrested, road transport Mirabel-Mobile is 1600NM / 3 days

I would have thought they would ship the large fuselage parts by ship from Québec? By train? Or by Beluga?

Transporting these large fuselage sections by road, at such a distance, with a lead car in front and after the truck to signal wide transport, seems strange to me.

As production matures, a ship is wise.

Initial ramp up with inefficiency is typical. First, get up production rates for orders then get out costs. The standard aerospace pattern.

Lightsaber

Maybe the sixth Beluga XL could be used ? But road transportation doesn't looks so strange to me. Fuel cost will not be a problem.

keesje wrote:

How is motivation at Maribel?

Does loss of independence depress the succes of the CSeries/A220 in terms of keeping in the good people?

Airbus can throw in money, resources, sales but is totally dependent on the Canadian teams to make the A220 a success, also for setting up the Mobile FAL.

This might be telling.:
http://www.lesailesduquebec.com/?p=9576

Translated, it indicates the union is giving strike mandate against CSALP. This follows successful negotiations by the same union with Bombardier for workers at Mirabel. No links to a news release.

reidar76 wrote:

keesje wrote:

For those intrested, road transport Mirabel-Mobile is 1600NM / 3 days

I would have thought they would ship the large fuselage parts by ship from Québec? By train? Or by Beluga?

Transporting these large fuselage sections by road, at such a distance, with a lead car in front and after the truck to signal wide transport, seems strange to me.

https://www.thestar.com/business/2015/03/23/ice-and-cold-delay-opening-of-st-lawrence-seaway.html

I wonder if the may extend the use of a couple of the existing Belugas. Surely the XL would be overkill.

Are the wings currently transported by ship? If so does winter weather delay these as well?

"All is peachy in the A220 World"....signed Delta PR Department

Does anyone know what is going to happen with the planes being built for Red Wings? The first couple must be near completion. However, Red Wings have decided not to take them and are converting their A220 order to other Airbus products instead.

keesje wrote:

For those interested, road transport Mirabel-Mobile is 1600NM / 3 days with a single driver.
But I assume it will be 2 crew, so 2 days. For delivery reliability, security. And a third driver, if they are in a hurry.

That's fascinating. The problem with the rig in the photo of course is not so much the width but the height. Smack that thing on an overpass because the driver is following Google maps instead of the approved truck routing system, and the damage would be astronomical. I wonder how circuitous the route would have to be to accommodate that height?

I realize that although it is possible pretty-easily to figure out rail, road and air routes on the internet, there doesn't seem to be an easy way to figure out a river route (if there is one) from wherever in Canada they would be shipping this stuff from to Mobile. Or would they just go out the St. Lawrence Seaway to the Atlantic and around Florida into the Gulf of Mexico? Obviously bigger ships that way.

Fortunately, a Canada to US water route would not have to be on a Jones Act vessel, and thus would be affordable. Floating stuff is generally the least-expensive way to get it somewhere, even with a longer route, but it is of course much slower, particularly with a circuitous route.

Rail would be the best all year transport method. Similar to Spirit and the 737 hulls, no escort costs and lower transit damage, but could be a few bullet holes as it passes thru Tennessee and Alabama - they make quite fun targets.

Can parts/components that are not manufactured by Airbus go directly to Moblie? Or must all parts go thru Mirabel first? Rail seems the most efficient way to move these parts.

INFINITI329 wrote:

Can parts/components that are not manufactured by Airbus go directly to Moblie? Or must all parts go thru Mirabel first? Rail seems the most efficient way to move these parts.

Hardly any "Airbus" parts on the A220. There are about 600 suppliers, mainly based in Canada, US.

I assume most parts / sub assemblies will come via Maribel, where inspections, checks and consolidation will take place.

Fuselage (3.5m wide) would certainly prefer water transport. But as said Maribel isn't the best location for that. Rail I don't know.

The older Beluga's would be perfect for the job, but I've heard nothing about that. Airbus even tries to sell them.

keesje wrote:

INFINITI329 wrote:

Can parts/components that are not manufactured by Airbus go directly to Moblie? Or must all parts go thru Mirabel first? Rail seems the most efficient way to move these parts.

Hardly any "Airbus" parts on the A220. There are about 600 suppliers, mainly based in Canada, US.

I assume most parts / sub assemblies will come via Maribel, where inspections, checks and consolidation will take place.

Fuselage (3.5m wide) would certainly prefer water transport. But as said Maribel isn't the best location for that. Rail I don't know.

The older Beluga's would be perfect for the job, but I've heard nothing about that. Airbus even tries to sell them.

Some of the big parts come from further away. For example, wings made in Belfast and some fuselage parts in China. I wonder how they get to Mirabel now? Could they not just be shipped to Mobile instead?

Rail could be the cheapest / most reliable year long.

By the way, Canadian National Rail (CNR) main US route happens to go all the way up to Mobile. So one single Rail Carrier from Montréal up to Mobile.

Keesje, two corrections, if you don't mind:
First, the place name is Mirabel, not Maribel, and
Second, the St Lawrence seaway is used by ships going beyond Montreal towards the Great Lakes (Toronto, Detroit, Chicago...); Montreal's harbour is almost always open.

Ok, back to the topic.

Aircellist wrote:

Keesje, two corrections, if you don't mind:
First, the place name is Mirabel, not Maribel, and
Second, the St Lawrence seaway is used by ships going beyond Montreal towards the Great Lakes (Toronto, Detroit, Chicago...); Montreal's harbour is almost always open.

Ok, back to the topic.

Hi, thnx. How would shippings go from Mirabel?

SteelChair wrote:

keesje wrote:

INFINITI329 wrote:

Can parts/components that are not manufactured by Airbus go directly to Moblie? Or must all parts go thru Mirabel first? Rail seems the most efficient way to move these parts.

Hardly any "Airbus" parts on the A220. There are about 600 suppliers, mainly based in Canada, US.

I assume most parts / sub assemblies will come via Maribel, where inspections, checks and consolidation will take place.

Fuselage (3.5m wide) would certainly prefer water transport. But as said Maribel isn't the best location for that. Rail I don't know.

The older Beluga's would be perfect for the job, but I've heard nothing about that. Airbus even tries to sell them.

Some of the big parts come from further away. For example, wings made in Belfast and some fuselage parts in China. I wonder how they get to Mirabel now? Could they not just be shipped to Mobile instead?

The flight compartment and the fuselage aft of the pressure bulkhead (not sure about the bulkhead itself) are produced by Bombardier Aerostructures and Engineering Services in St Laurent (Montreal suburb). PW1500G FAL is in Mirabel as well. But I think that's it. Very little on the A220 is actually produced in Mirabel. Instead of having subassemblies and components delivered there then forwarded, they would be sent directly to Mobile.

How is this plane even affordable to produce? Wow.

ODwyerPW wrote:

How is this plane even affordable to produce? Wow.

I think that's one of the major problems Airbus is dealing with now, and why BBD couldn't make a go of it themselves.

Every airplane in the world is built this way, so it’s not a surprise.

GF

Shipments could go by rail or truck to Halifax which is a year round ice free port. And then by boat from Halifax to Mobile. Or even much closer still ship to Boston and go by boat from there. Montreal - Boston isn't that far.

neromancer wrote:

Shipments could go by rail or truck to Halifax which is a year round ice free port. And then by boat from Halifax to Mobile. Or even much closer still ship to Boston and go by boat from there. Montreal - Boston isn't that far.

As mentioned in a comment above, from the port of Montreal to the Atlantic is open year round with only the occasional closing of the St. Lawrence for ice.

As where big bits are bulit (this is from memory 4 years ago, things might have changed since):

Cockpit: St. Laurent
Wings: Belfast
Fuselage: China (is designed as 3 sections)
Wingbox: Spain or Italy
Belly fairing: Spain or Italy

Just about everything else fits in containers or can be shipped as standard freight.

The only large item that would need to go from Montreal to Mobile would be the cockpit, and it fits on a truck or train easily (you could probably get two on a trailer). My guess would be trucks as it supports just in time more easily.

Macro logistics between feeding the Mirabel or Mobile FAL's are essentially the same. Some of the suppliers are going to be impacted as many opened facilities in and around Montreal to feed the FAL at Mirabel (there was supposed a just in time setup).

And compared to the A380 logistics, they don't need to wait for low tide!

Speaking of DL and the A220, there appear to be a couple of swaps over the past few days.

My DTW-DFW flight on Sunday morning (DL2143) was downgauged from an A220 to a 712. A few minutes ago, I spotted a 738 flying into DFW as DL2460 from LGA, a flight that is reportedly a 220. (It’s even more notable since we rarely see a DL 737 flying into DFW or DAL.)

Makes me wonder if there are issues with the 220 on DL’s end or if I’m reading too much into this.

About the factories, BBD will sell the Belfast one. The article states that BBD will no longer be making the CSeries, sorry, A220's wings.

https://www.lapresse.ca/affaires/entrep ... plonge.php

Aircellist wrote:

About the factories, BBD will sell the Belfast one. The article states that BBD will no longer be making the CSeries, sorry, A220's wings.

https://www.lapresse.ca/affaires/entrep ... plonge.php

BBD will no longer be making the A220 wings, because they sell the factory. The fact this facility is vital for the A220 production should rise the price for anyone buying it, GKN, Airbus, AVIC. Continuity of currently produced products will be part of any deal.


https://www.bombardier.com/en/media/new ... ercom.html?

Updated the table with the following:
Corrected a typo with Air Canada
Added Air Vanuatu Order
Updated Jet Blue and Delta Orders
Source Data for these changes is after the table. Previous source in post #59.


AIRLINE 2019 - 2020 - 2021 - 2022 - 2023 - 2024 - 2025
Air Baltic 8 - 12 - 12 - 4
Air Canada 3 - 12 - 15 - 15
Air Vanuatu 0 - 2 - 2
Delta Airlines 24 - 18 - 12 - 17 - 15
EgyptAir 6 - 6
Jet Blue 0 - 1 - 6 - 8 - 19 - 22 - 2
Korean Air 1
"Moxy" 0 - 6 - 12 - 12 - 15 - 15
Red Wings 6
Swiss 2
ORDER 2019 2020 2021 2022 2023 2024 2025
TOTAL 50 - 61 - 59 - 56 - 49 - 37

Data
Air Vanuatu - Flight Global 2.26.19
4 with deliveries starting in June 2020 so I went 2 in 2020 and 2 in 2021

Jet Blue - Flight Global 1.24.19
Decrease 2020 deliveries by 4 and increase 2021 and 2025 by 2 each

Delta
Per Cactusjuba's post #24 in Delta MD-88s
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1415919&p=21110839&hilit=cactusjuba+24+a220#p21110839
Aircraft Purchase Commitments

........................2019...2020...2021...After 2021....Total
A220-100.........24........12........—............—................36
A220-300..........—..........6........12...........32...............50

I've found that trying to understand where A220 production is at rate wise is impossible monthly. It's so low that minor changes make the numbers swing all over.

Quarterly, they production numbers (monthly in parentheses)
2016
Q1 - 0 (0.00)
Q2 - 1 (0.33)
Q3 - 1 (0.33)
Q4 - 5 (1.67)
2017
Q1 - 2 (0.67)
Q2 - 5 (1.67)
Q3 - 4 (1.33)
Q4 - 6 (2.00)
2018
Q1 - 5 (1.67)
Q2 - 7 (2.33)
Q3 - 9 (3.00)
Q4 - 12 (4.00)
2019
Q1 - 8 (2.67)
Q2 - so far 3 have been delivered, 50032 for Delta had a 2nd flight Monday May 6th and 55053 for Air Baltic had a 5th flight today May 7th

Even looking at it quarterly still gets confusing with the end of year push where Q4 is way ahead of Q1. I also found it helpful to look at last 4 quarters total (so year ending 2018Q3 would be October2017 to September 2018).

Year ending
2017
Q1 - 09 (0.75)
Q2 - 13 (1.08)
Q3 - 16 (1.33)
Q4 - 17 (1.42)
2018
Q1 - 20 (1.67)
Q2 - 22 (1.83)
Q3 - 27 (2.25)
Q4 - 33 (2.75)
2019
Q1 - 36 (3.00)

Full disclosure I am a bit of a C-Series/A220 fanboy so this could be me manipulating data to make myself happy.
However, I do thing the production ramp up is slowly but surely improving, especially given that the past year total has ALWAYS increased. Hopefully they keep this trend going.

rrbsztk wrote:

Updated the table with the following:
Red Wings 6

Red Wings has canceled, although at least two aircraft are in assembly now.
Air Canada will only get 1 aircraft this year.

rrbsztk wrote:

I also found it helpful to look at last 4 quarters total (so year ending 2018Q3 would be October2017 to September 2018).

A moving average is probably a pretty good way to look at it given it fluctuates quite a bit - even though it might mean you are slightly lagging real rate.

For instance, expected rate for 2019 might be ~ 8+10+12+14 => 44; not 36.

Where's Egyptair's first A220-300? I thought I read they'd receive their first near the beginning of this year.

With the red wings order, is STLC obligatedto accept delivery still? I left those on thinking that the one's already on theassembly line are being delivered still to the leasing company.

lostsound wrote:

Where's Egyptair's first A220-300? I thought I read they'd receive their first near the beginning of this year.

You can track everything here, but it doesn't show future delivery dates of course! It looks like the first delivery could be within a couple of months: .

https://aibfamily.flights/production-list/A220

Re Egyptair when i first did thetable a few months ago they were saying july for first delivery. Currently in assembly list they have a bunch of 100s for delta and for the 300s they have 3 air Baltic (one in test flight currently, one waiting for first flight) 2 STLC (red wings) and then 6 for Egyptair. So july as reported seems quite realistic

audidudi wrote:

lostsound wrote:

Where's Egyptair's first A220-300? I thought I read they'd receive their first near the beginning of this year.

You can track everything here, but it doesn't show future delivery dates of course! It looks like the first delivery could be within a couple of months: .

https://aibfamily.flights/production-list/A220

Thank you for the link! A bit off topic but there's a sneak peak at JetBlue's new tail design on an A321NEO in the header image!
Quite pretty.

sirtoby wrote:

rrbsztk wrote:

Updated the table with the following:
Red Wings 6

Red Wings has canceled, although at least two aircraft are in assembly now.
Air Canada will only get 1 aircraft this year.

Thanks. I've switched Air Canada to 1-14-15-15. Leaving Red Wings in for now as ??STLC?? since I have no idea if they get delivered still.

YEAR......2019...2020...2021...2022...2023...2024...2025
Air Baltic.....8.......12.......12........4
Air Canada 1.......14........15......15
Air Vanuatu 0........2..........2
Delta..........24......18.......12.......17........15
EgyptAir.......6........6
Jet Blue.......0.........1.........6.........8........19.......22......2
Korean Air...1
"Moxy" ........0.........6.......12.......12........15.......15
Swiss.......... 2
??STLC??....6 (Red wings cancelled - is STLC still taking delivery)
YEAR......2019...2020...2021...2022...2023...2024...2025
TOTAL........48......59........59......56......49.......37........2

What about Iraqi Airways? even they had CS300/A220 on order.

Above order list by year seems to exclude the following firm orders: Braathens (10), Gulf Air (10), Macquarie (40), Lease Corporation International (20), Iraqi (5), Ilyshun (excluding Red Wings) (14), and Republic (40), although this latter order seems dead.

Ive only included in the table ones that have firmish delivery dates. Braathens has postponed i think sorta indefinitely. Gulf Air had reportedly gone another direction. Iraqi might come through - i think its a regulation thing? Lessors - the only placed order i know of is red wings.

So I just saw on another web site that Delta already had a 300 series that was delivered 4/26/19. I will go back and get the tail# and msn# . I didn’t think they had any 300 series for awhile yet. Can anyone confirm this?

Update....Msn# 50027 and reg# N108DQ

Tomsixty2 wrote:

Update....Msn# 50027 and reg# N108DQ

She's a 100.

Ok. Thanks. I thought the 300 s were out aways.

Delta is getting 6 A220-300 next year. On the 300 assembly list they are in the mid 55050s (#54 in test flight and #55 waiting for test flight).

Delta has numbers 55069, 70, 75 and 80 listed (list ends at 55083). IIRC correctly these delta A220-300s are going to be "finished" in Mobile. Not really sure what exactly that means, but they'll be delivered later than similar line numbered aircraft with having to go to Mobile to be done fully. That's got to add a couple month's at least to assembly i would think.

Airfleets .net showed #50027 as a -300. Thanks for the info.

Interesting that airfleets got it wrong. For reference 50### is a 100 and 55### is a 300.

rrbsztk wrote:

Interesting that airfleets got it wrong. For reference 50### is a 100 and 55### is a 300.

I allow mistakes in free.

Overall, airfleets is good. With a time lag, that is.

I haven't found anything free that is better.
I heavily use it to track A220 in service as well as MD-80/90. You now know my opinion.

Hey, any rumors of A220 increase in validity of service? My opinion is that it is designed for far more than 60,000 FC and 90,000 FH. However, it will take far more sales to expand. In my dream world, I see growth to first:
80,000 FC, 120,000 FH. This is A320 level flight hours.

A CFRP wing should have no issue with 100,000 FC and basically unlimited flight hours. (See 787 with 200,000 FH certified, I bet the structure could take much more). AFAIK, the A220 should be able to match 737/MD-80 cycles and exceed on FH. But since testing is expensive, I doubt there is a business case for more than 160,000 FH and the 100k cycles. I only propose 160k FH as a nice multiple for maintenance. I know of details in the design I think would have issues at 120k FC.

Note:. Airbus will want to go to 120k FH. Until the A320 is certified for more, we won't see more on the A220 IMHO. Cest la vie.

Lightsaber