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Revelation
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Re: Republic Cancels A220 Order from 2010

Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:04 pm

Polot wrote:
Cancellation now is probably a mix of Airbus wanting to clear the dead orders out of the book and Republic potentially having an upcoming financial obligation in regards to the order (that BBD might have let slide, but Airbus won’t to get order off of books).

It's interesting how orders are good early in the program to give it a sense of momentum, but later in the program they are bad in the sense that a big backlog chases away new orders.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
wrongwayup
Posts: 372
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Re: Republic Cancels A220 Order from 2010

Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:45 pm

raylee67 wrote:
Should these orders be cleaned out from the book too?
PrivatAir
Odyssey Airlines

And what about the Russian leasing companies? Are those orders still solid?
GTLK State Transport Leasing Co.
Ilyushin Finance Co.


PrivatAir is already out of the backlog. I would bet you the others don't sit in the current production plan regardless of what their respective contracts say about delivery dates.
 
T4thH
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:36 pm

STLC as leasing company had ordered 6 A220-300 for Red Wings, but Red Wings had cancelled the contract this year. The two first have been already in production and have been completed (without outfitting) as white birds. Both have now gone to outfitting. According news, these have been sold to a customer, which prefers to stay unknown. (so to an UFO). 55056 will be delivered in few weeks, latest than we shall know it (just waiting of the first picture of the painted tail fin).
https://www.wingsoverquebec.com/?p=8776

55056 and 55057
The Russian leasing company STLC had leased six A220-300s to fellow Redwing. Then on March 21, we learned that Redwing had terminated its lease contract with STLC. Delivery of the first two aircraft with serial number 55056 and 55057 was scheduled for May. Airbus has stored the two aircraft outside until the first of August. Last Thursday, Airbus performed engine run up on the serial number 55056. Then the aircraft made its first flight on August 4. Airbus has confirmed us that this aircraft is sold to a customer and that it will be delivered in the coming weeks. (coming weeks means in 2 to 10 weeks). However, the client wants to remain discreet for the moment. On August 5, Airbus also pulled in serial number 55057 to complete its interior.



What I am now asking myself; STLC is the Russia state lessor, do they have leased the two birds or really sold them? And what is with the other 4 birds, ordered by STLC for Red Wings. The first parts shall be already in production.
 
rrbsztk
Posts: 125
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:51 pm

T4thH wrote:
STLC as leasing company had ordered 6 A220-300 for Red Wings, but Red Wings had cancelled the contract this year. The two first have been already in production and have been completed (without outfitting) as white birds. Both have now gone to outfitting. According news, these have been sold to a customer, which prefers to stay unknown. (so to an UFO). 55056 will be delivered in few weeks, latest than we shall know it (just waiting of the first picture of the painted tail fin).
https://www.wingsoverquebec.com/?p=8776

55056 and 55057
The Russian leasing company STLC had leased six A220-300s to fellow Redwing. Then on March 21, we learned that Redwing had terminated its lease contract with STLC. Delivery of the first two aircraft with serial number 55056 and 55057 was scheduled for May. Airbus has stored the two aircraft outside until the first of August. Last Thursday, Airbus performed engine run up on the serial number 55056. Then the aircraft made its first flight on August 4. Airbus has confirmed us that this aircraft is sold to a customer and that it will be delivered in the coming weeks. (coming weeks means in 2 to 10 weeks). However, the client wants to remain discreet for the moment. On August 5, Airbus also pulled in serial number 55057 to complete its interior.



What I am now asking myself; STLC is the Russia state lessor, do they have leased the two birds or really sold them? And what is with the other 4 birds, ordered by STLC for Red Wings. The first parts shall be already in production.


I'm wondering if they might be the 2 for Air Tanzania. Has that order been finalized?
 
T4thH
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:03 pm

rrbsztk wrote:
T4thH wrote:
STLC as leasing company had ordered 6 A220-300 for Red Wings, but Red Wings had cancelled the contract this year. The two first have been already in production and have been completed (without outfitting) as white birds. Both have now gone to outfitting. According news, these have been sold to a customer, which prefers to stay unknown. (so to an UFO). 55056 will be delivered in few weeks, latest than we shall know it (just waiting of the first picture of the painted tail fin).
https://www.wingsoverquebec.com/?p=8776

55056 and 55057
The Russian leasing company STLC had leased six A220-300s to fellow Redwing. Then on March 21, we learned that Redwing had terminated its lease contract with STLC. Delivery of the first two aircraft with serial number 55056 and 55057 was scheduled for May. Airbus has stored the two aircraft outside until the first of August. Last Thursday, Airbus performed engine run up on the serial number 55056. Then the aircraft made its first flight on August 4. Airbus has confirmed us that this aircraft is sold to a customer and that it will be delivered in the coming weeks. (coming weeks means in 2 to 10 weeks). However, the client wants to remain discreet for the moment. On August 5, Airbus also pulled in serial number 55057 to complete its interior.



What I am now asking myself; STLC is the Russia state lessor, do they have leased the two birds or really sold them? And what is with the other 4 birds, ordered by STLC for Red Wings. The first parts shall be already in production.


I'm wondering if they might be the 2 for Air Tanzania. Has that order been finalized?


That Tanzania will buy two additional birds, has been recently announced. There is nothing firmed, I think, they have recently just started the discussion and contracting with all partners.
 
yyztpa2
Posts: 30
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:25 pm

T4thH wrote:
STLC as leasing company had ordered 6 A220-300 for Red Wings, but Red Wings had cancelled the contract this year. The two first have been already in production and have been completed (without outfitting) as white birds. Both have now gone to outfitting. According news, these have been sold to a customer, which prefers to stay unknown. (so to an UFO). 55056 will be delivered in few weeks, latest than we shall know it (just waiting of the first picture of the painted tail fin).
https://www.wingsoverquebec.com/?p=8776

55056 and 55057
The Russian leasing company STLC had leased six A220-300s to fellow Redwing. Then on March 21, we learned that Redwing had terminated its lease contract with STLC. Delivery of the first two aircraft with serial number 55056 and 55057 was scheduled for May. Airbus has stored the two aircraft outside until the first of August. Last Thursday, Airbus performed engine run up on the serial number 55056. Then the aircraft made its first flight on August 4. Airbus has confirmed us that this aircraft is sold to a customer and that it will be delivered in the coming weeks. (coming weeks means in 2 to 10 weeks). However, the client wants to remain discreet for the moment. On August 5, Airbus also pulled in serial number 55057 to complete its interior.



What I am now asking myself; STLC is the Russia state lessor, do they have leased the two birds or really sold them? And what is with the other 4 birds, ordered by STLC for Red Wings. The first parts shall be already in production.

Fliegerfaust is reporting the first 55056 has acceptance flight today and will be turned over to STLC/GTLK today:
https://www.fliegerfaust.com/russia-new ... 94065.html
and supported by AIBFamily
https://aibfamily.flights/A220/55056
 
T4thH
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:46 pm

So still a "Withe Bird". But who cares, GLTK /STLC will take it, it is delivered and end of the story. So Airbus/Bombardier are paid. Not that it will end up as 55017.
https://www.abcdlist.nl/photo/cs/55017.html
https://www.abcdlist.nl/cseries/cseries.html
 
yyztpa2
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:47 pm

T4thH wrote:
So still a "Withe Bird". But who cares, GLTK /STLC will take it, it is delivered and end of the story. So Airbus/Bombardier are paid. Not that it will end up as 55017.
https://www.abcdlist.nl/photo/cs/55017.html
https://www.abcdlist.nl/cseries/cseries.html


...and why did not Korean take 55017? Was there discussion that it was to be allocated for one of the VIP?
 
T4thH
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:22 am

yyztpa2 wrote:
T4thH wrote:
So still a "Withe Bird". But who cares, GLTK /STLC will take it, it is delivered and end of the story. So Airbus/Bombardier are paid. Not that it will end up as 55017.
https://www.abcdlist.nl/photo/cs/55017.html
https://www.abcdlist.nl/cseries/cseries.html


...and why did not Korean take 55017? Was there discussion that it was to be allocated for one of the VIP?

KAL has traded this slot and took a later one . It was said, it shall be completed as business jet, but it was never done. It is still parked there outside since 2 years.
As recently seen for 50018 (and now for 50019), which have also been stored for two years; as the product is still upgraded and production optimized, it will be more and more difficult (and expensive) to complete and modify these first production frames to an up to date production status. The 55017 frame is starting to get old.
 
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SQ22
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:39 am

First flight of first A220-300 for MS with registration C-FPBE, to be SU-GEX.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ht-460447/
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:16 pm

Good news we will see more opperators.

Note: MS=Egypt Air.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
Skywatcher
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:47 pm

From what I can tell they delivered 2 this month (DL & STLC). Looks like 2 more (MS & DL) are post first flight and will hopefully be delivered before month end. The benchmark is 4/mo. this year so looks like they are back to "normal" after the vacation shutdown.
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:42 pm

SQ22 wrote:
First flight of first A220-300 for MS with registration C-FPBE, to be SU-GEX.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ht-460447/

Thanks, as anticipated that confirms the blue nacelle leading edge in the previous photo was just a protective coating, as was the orange on the leading edge and the yellow around the flight deck windows.

rrbsztk wrote:
AvroLanc wrote:
Has anyone seen the EgyptAir A220 or have any pics. Curious on your thoughts. Saw a pic on Instagram and thought it maybe the best looking bird yet. Only seen one image though.



Yes and i love love love it. Although i am fearing that the orange window trim and that orange line on the front of the wing are the airplane equivalent of painters tape. But i love garish orange trim so hopefully it stays :)

Link with pic
https://airlinegeeks.com/2019/07/09/egy ... paintshop/


V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
T4thH
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:43 pm

 
Someone83
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:12 am

Next for Delta delivered yesterday

Airbus Canada A220 -171 50041 N122DU Delta Air Lines delivery 29aug19 YMX-ATL
 
TObound
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:51 pm

They seem likely to break 40 this year. I wonder by how much.
 
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GlenP
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:46 am

VirginFlyer wrote:
SQ22 wrote:
First flight of first A220-300 for MS with registration C-FPBE, to be SU-GEX.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ht-460447/

Thanks, as anticipated that confirms the blue nacelle leading edge in the previous photo was just a protective coating, as was the orange on the leading edge and the yellow around the flight deck windows.

rrbsztk wrote:
AvroLanc wrote:
Has anyone seen the EgyptAir A220 or have any pics. Curious on your thoughts. Saw a pic on Instagram and thought it maybe the best looking bird yet. Only seen one image though.



Yes and i love love love it. Although i am fearing that the orange window trim and that orange line on the front of the wing are the airplane equivalent of painters tape. But i love garish orange trim so hopefully it stays :)

Link with pic
https://airlinegeeks.com/2019/07/09/egy ... paintshop/


V/F


I'll try to nab some photos when I do an LXR - CAI hop on it, last weekend of the month. Just depends on whether the sun is up enough at the, "Oh my God o'clock", departure time and whether the security staff enforce the no photos on the apron rule; LXR doubles as an air force base.
Ubique Quo Fas et Gloria Ducunt
 
gokmengs
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:56 pm

TObound wrote:
They seem likely to break 40 this year. I wonder by how much.

Lets all hope, its like watching water boil this thing:) can’t wait for Airbus level production numbers, the orders will follow increased delivery pace
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TObound
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:23 pm

gokmengs wrote:
TObound wrote:
They seem likely to break 40 this year. I wonder by how much.

Lets all hope, its like watching water boil this thing:) can’t wait for Airbus level production numbers, the orders will follow increased delivery pace


It would just be nice to see 43 delivered this year so they finally hit three digits of total delivered frames.
 
Skywatcher
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:10 pm

Just checked the Airbus site. Aug. deliveries ended up being 3 (2 x DL, 1 x Russia).
So far in Sep. there's been 1 delivery (Egypt) and 2 first flights (DL & Russia).
Hopefully at least 3 and possibly more will be delivered in Sep?
 
rrbsztk
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:35 pm

Skywatcher wrote:
Just checked the Airbus site. Aug. deliveries ended up being 3 (2 x DL, 1 x Russia).
So far in Sep. there's been 1 delivery (Egypt) and 2 first flights (DL & Russia).
Hopefully at least 3 and possibly more will be delivered in Sep?

Egyptair initially said a few flights starting sept 6th(ish) and 20th something. (Dates off the top of my head sorry). When i looked at what they were planning it seemed they need a second A220 when they add flights at the end of month.

Worth noting they did push back a few days the first flights so i could see the end of September becoming early October. But hopeful they'll get second A220 this month.
 
VV
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:40 pm

TObound wrote:
gokmengs wrote:
TObound wrote:
They seem likely to break 40 this year. I wonder by how much.

Lets all hope, its like watching water boil this thing:) can’t wait for Airbus level production numbers, the orders will follow increased delivery pace


It would just be nice to see 43 delivered this year so they finally hit three digits of total delivered frames.


Isn't the target 45?
 
T4thH
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:43 pm

VV wrote:
TObound wrote:
gokmengs wrote:
Lets all hope, its like watching water boil this thing:) can’t wait for Airbus level production numbers, the orders will follow increased delivery pace


It would just be nice to see 43 delivered this year so they finally hit three digits of total delivered frames.


Isn't the target 45?

Yes, the half official target at begin of the year was stated as 45 (I had also heard of 44 else, but 45 seem to have been the Airbus target for this year).
 
rrbsztk
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:39 pm

VV wrote:
TObound wrote:
gokmengs wrote:
Lets all hope, its like watching water boil this thing:) can’t wait for Airbus level production numbers, the orders will follow increased delivery pace


It would just be nice to see 43 delivered this year so they finally hit three digits of total delivered frames.


Isn't the target 45?


Yes. The 43rd delivery this year would be the 100th overall.
 
gokmengs
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:09 am

Wonder how long it (would have rather) took C series to reach that milestone compared with other programs, pretty sure won’t be a good comparison for the C series:(
Yaşa Mustafa Kemal Paşa Yaşa, Adın Yazılacak Mücevher Taşa
 
VV
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:47 am

gokmengs wrote:
Wonder how long it (would have rather) took C series to reach that milestone compared with other programs, pretty sure won’t be a good comparison for the C series:(


It seems E2 deliveries have been even slower so far.
 
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mad99
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:43 am

First a220-300 in final assembly at Mobile now
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:34 pm

Airbus is launching an A220-300LR or XLR according to Jon Ostrower. I've just seen his tweets, but I don't have access to his website the Air Current. He's talking about not only a thrust bump, but increased fuel capacity. Maybe ACT.

"Neeleman’s Moxy will be launch operator for A220XLR. Yes, you read that right."

https://twitter.com/jonostrower/status/ ... 00096?s=20

Official word from Airbus on the new (previously undisclosed) A220-300 LR: “We are always working with our customers listening to their fleet needs. We don’t comment on the our confidential discussions”

https://twitter.com/jonostrower/status/ ... 67104?s=20

This is strictly a production / delivery thread. Either way, I think it is relevant to the topic to mention this news.

Continued discussion on A220LR / XLR:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1431221
 
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keesje
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:34 am

Will the A220 reach 45 deliveries for 2019 ?

:frown:

Double that rate would translate in a reasoable, commercially viable backlog (4-5 yrs).

(I know they are working their butts off to grow into that..)
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
SteelChair
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:37 am

keesje wrote:
Will the A220 reach 45 deliveries for 2019 ?

:frown:

Double that rate would translate in a reasoable, commercially viable backlog (4-5 yrs).

(I know they are working their butts off to grow into that..)


With 26 delivered YTD, I would say 45 is impossible.

35 would be a nice achievement at this point imho.

Another underwhelming year of deliveries by Bombardier/Airbus.
 
Jetsouth
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:15 pm

[twoid][/twoid]Actually, I count 20 A220-200's, and 10 A220-300's delivered so far this year. Currently, there are 3 A220-300's and 1 A220-200 in various stages of flight testing that will presumably be delivered this month. That makes 34. If they continue to produce 4 per month in October-December, they should easily meet the target of 45. And for some reason they seem to produce the most A220's in the last few months of each year.

SteelChair wrote:
keesje wrote:
Will the A220 reach 45 deliveries for 2019 ?

:frown:

Double that rate would translate in a reasoable, commercially viable backlog (4-5 yrs).

(I know they are working their butts off to grow into that..)


With 26 delivered YTD, I would say 45 is impossible.

35 would be a nice achievement at this point imho.

Another underwhelming year of deliveries by Bombardier/Airbus.
 
T4thH
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:21 pm

Also already stated in another Thread.
Seems the 2 A220-300 order by the Tanzanian government for Air Tanzania has been firmed.
https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-tanzania-aviation/tanzania-inks-deal-to-buy-two-passenger-planes-from-airbus-idUKKBN1W51A4

Interesting:
Airbus, he said, had told Tanzania the planes would be ready in about a year. He declined to say how much they would cost.
:
So delivery of both in 2020? The "Red Wing" slots?
Ndimila said the new Airbus planes would have a more luxurious interior than in the existing aircraft.

“The new planes will have an improved entertainment system including screens in each seat,” he said.
 
Jetsouth
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:34 pm

Possible, or trading AirBaltic production slots.

Seems the 2 A220-300 order by the Tanzanian government for Air Tanzania has been firmed.
https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-tanzania-aviation/tanzania-inks-deal-to-buy-two-passenger-planes-from-airbus-idUKKBN1W51A4

Interesting:
Airbus, he said, had told Tanzania the planes would be ready in about a year. He declined to say how much they would cost.
:
So delivery of both in 2020? The "Red Wing" slots?
Ndimila said the new Airbus planes would have a more luxurious interior than in the existing aircraft.

“The new planes will have an improved entertainment system including screens in each seat,” he said.
[/quote]
 
Skywatcher
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:46 pm

Looks like the production pace is picking up. I checked the Airbus site today. Here's the status for the month of September as of today;
2 delivered (DL & Egyptair)
1 has done 3rd test flight (Russia)
1 has done ground testing (Egyptair)
2 have done two test flights (Air Baltic & DL).

With any luck 6 could be delivered in September (10 more days).
 
JayinKitsap
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:00 pm

The A220 ramp up has been painfully slow, they really need to be building 100/year by 2021 and 200/year by 2025
 
rrbsztk
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:12 pm

I'm wondering if the recent slow down is partly due to red wings falling through. STLC is still taking them, but red wings had planned to start service in may, and STLC took their first one 3 months later in August.

Re long term, the preFAL in Mirabel that they are planning (is it 100% decided yet?) was reported as being ready in 2021 which would help them quickly get to 100 annually including the Mobile ramp up.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:19 pm

JayinKitsap wrote:
The A220 ramp up has been painfully slow, they really need to be building 100/year by 2021 and 200/year by 2025

Why 200/year? The current backlog is 428; 2 years of backlog is too small.
Also, Embraer produced 1,500 E-Jets in 18 years and Bombardier 800 CRJ700/900/1000s in 20 years.

200/year seem too much; maybe 100/year is the magic number.
 
TObound
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:28 pm

JayinKitsap wrote:
The A220 ramp up has been painfully slow, they really need to be building 100/year by 2021 and 200/year by 2025


At current back backlog, 200/yr is too much. And they will definitely be up to 100/yr by the end of 2021, with all the infrastructure work at both Mirabel and Mobile complete then.
 
lostsound
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:44 pm

When will AC's first A223 be underway? I believe they get one in December unless that's changed?
 
T4thH
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:46 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
JayinKitsap wrote:
The A220 ramp up has been painfully slow, they really need to be building 100/year by 2021 and 200/year by 2025

Why 200/year? The current backlog is 428; 2 years of backlog is too small.
Also, Embraer produced 1,500 E-Jets in 18 years and Bombardier 800 CRJ700/900/1000s in 20 years.

200/year seem too much; maybe 100/year is the magic number.

The max. capacity of the Montreal FAL is around 10/month, for the Mobile FAL around 4.
The maximum production/month will be reached in 2024 and there will be a sustained production of around 14/month in 2025. So there will be a production of around 155/year in 2025.
And if someone believes, there is a guy, to stupid to multiply few numbers...
A production year in Montreal is around 11 month, in Mobile around 11.5 or 12 month.

The Montreal FAL is far away to be completed. Bombardier just has had not the money any more, to complete it and the Canadian government was not willed to throw more money out of the window, than minimum needed, that the C100/C300 production did not collapse. Airbus is hard working, to identify all these bottlenecks and issues and to close them as fast as possible. When finally in 2021 or so the PRE-FAL assemble buildings have been completed than the real ramp up in Montreal can start. Additional the production line in Montreal is old fashion style, The assembling starts with 5 empty hull parts of the fuselage...lol. This is...old fashion and not Airbus mass production style. This will be changed. 3 parts, tail section, wing body with already attached wings and front part and all already pre-assembled with interior, floor plates, cables, pipes e.g.. These will be assembled and than pushed into the FAL building and the production will start. So the product is still not mass producible, this has till to be done.
 
JayinKitsap
Posts: 1438
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:55 am

Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:02 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
JayinKitsap wrote:
The A220 ramp up has been painfully slow, they really need to be building 100/year by 2021 and 200/year by 2025

Why 200/year? The current backlog is 428; 2 years of backlog is too small.
Also, Embraer produced 1,500 E-Jets in 18 years and Bombardier 800 CRJ700/900/1000s in 20 years.

200/year seem too much; maybe 100/year is the magic number.


In 2018 Airbus produced 626 A320 family planes and Boeing produced 580 737, roughly 1,200 in total with production increasing. To reach 10% of the market in deliveries that is 120 or so for the year. 200 is 15%, scale efficiencies will not let the A220 pricing get competitive if the production is too low. Here on A.net the A220 is taking over the whole market, challenging the A & B smaller NB's. Delta alone has nearly 200 MD's & 717, AA had nearly 400 of those at one time.

The market changing orders will not happen if the backlog gets past 6 year, it has been slowed substantially of late as the backlog is over 5 times the delivered to date.

At 100 per year it will remain a nice but not game changing airplanes, like the CRJ and Q400 have been. Similar market penetration as the Mad Dogs, great but insufficient to change the market.
 
T4thH
Posts: 298
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:30 am

JayinKitsap wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
JayinKitsap wrote:
The A220 ramp up has been painfully slow, they really need to be building 100/year by 2021 and 200/year by 2025

Why 200/year? The current backlog is 428; 2 years of backlog is too small.
Also, Embraer produced 1,500 E-Jets in 18 years and Bombardier 800 CRJ700/900/1000s in 20 years.

200/year seem too much; maybe 100/year is the magic number.


In 2018 Airbus produced 626 A320 family planes and Boeing produced 580 737, roughly 1,200 in total with production increasing. To reach 10% of the market in deliveries that is 120 or so for the year. 200 is 15%, scale efficiencies will not let the A220 pricing get competitive if the production is too low. Here on A.net the A220 is taking over the whole market, challenging the A & B smaller NB's. Delta alone has nearly 200 MD's & 717, AA had nearly 400 of those at one time.

The market changing orders will not happen if the backlog gets past 6 year, it has been slowed substantially of late as the backlog is over 5 times the delivered to date.

At 100 per year it will remain a nice but not game changing airplanes, like the CRJ and Q400 have been. Similar market penetration as the Mad Dogs, great but insufficient to change the market.

Sorry, but perhaps we shall first discuss about the market. The A220 is part of the narrow-body market, so starting with 100 PAX (everything lower is regional). So these are according Airbus 29.000 birds in next 20 years.
The A220 is part of the 150 PAX market. For these I have seen numbers of around 4000 (smallest), around 6000 and a maximum of 8000 in next 20 years.
I believe a number of 6000 is legible. Airbus want to win half of them, so 3000. I believe, they will get a higher part of the market, so up to 4000 in 20 years can be possible (also 3500 will be fine) and this will be up to 15% of the whole narrow body market and up to 10% of the whole number of produced jets (exclusive the regional jets).
But I also believe, that this market will slowly develop, a production of 160 at 2025 is fine, a raise to 200 around 2030 is legible and perhaps we will see the maximum production of around 250 jets at 2035.

And one point to remind: how many commercial passenger jet types world wide have had production numbers of more than 3000?
 
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lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 17928
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:54 am

T4thH wrote:
JayinKitsap wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
Why 200/year? The current backlog is 428; 2 years of backlog is too small.
Also, Embraer produced 1,500 E-Jets in 18 years and Bombardier 800 CRJ700/900/1000s in 20 years.

200/year seem too much; maybe 100/year is the magic number.


In 2018 Airbus produced 626 A320 family planes and Boeing produced 580 737, roughly 1,200 in total with production increasing. To reach 10% of the market in deliveries that is 120 or so for the year. 200 is 15%, scale efficiencies will not let the A220 pricing get competitive if the production is too low. Here on A.net the A220 is taking over the whole market, challenging the A & B smaller NB's. Delta alone has nearly 200 MD's & 717, AA had nearly 400 of those at one time.

The market changing orders will not happen if the backlog gets past 6 year, it has been slowed substantially of late as the backlog is over 5 times the delivered to date.

At 100 per year it will remain a nice but not game changing airplanes, like the CRJ and Q400 have been. Similar market penetration as the Mad Dogs, great but insufficient to change the market.

Sorry, but perhaps we shall first discuss about the market. The A220 is part of the narrow-body market, so starting with 100 PAX (everything lower is regional). So these are according Airbus 29.000 birds in next 20 years.
The A220 is part of the 150 PAX market. For these I have seen numbers of around 4000 (smallest), around 6000 and a maximum of 8000 in next 20 years.
I believe a number of 6000 is legible. Airbus want to win half of them, so 3000. I believe, they will get a higher part of the market, so up to 4000 in 20 years can be possible (also 3500 will be fine) and this will be up to 15% of the whole narrow body market and up to 10% of the whole number of produced jets (exclusive the regional jets).
But I also believe, that this market will slowly develop, a production of 160 at 2025 is fine, a raise to 200 around 2030 is legible and perhaps we will see the maximum production of around 250 jets at 2035.

And one point to remind: how many commercial passenger jet types world wide have had production numbers of more than 3000?

You make excellent points, I just hope the market develops quicker. The limit will depend on when a stretch is developed. 4,000 to 6,000 is reasonable.

Lightsaber
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