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basspaul
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:18 pm

Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:08 pm

runway23 wrote:
T4thH wrote:
sergegva wrote:
Any news of the last Swiss A220-100 that should have been delivered in June?


The 50018 has been already delivered on 02-Jul-2019.
The last left is, if I remember correctly, the 50019. Produced already more than 2 years ago. They will do the same, they have already done with the 50018, to modify and upgrade them to the up to date production status, so Swiss will get a brand new up to date bird. To upgrade them has been shown for the 018 to be much more than expected work and will spent much more time than thought.


What are the differences between a 2 year old build and now ?

The real reason as to why these 2 planes weren't delivered back when they were built isn't very clear either.


The first 20 or so CS100's were in production before certification. I believe Swiss asked to start with later builds to get as much change management incorporated into baseline design. I'm guessing the earlier birds are being delivered as per contract order, but there's obviously still some reworking left to do to get it to production spec's.
 
rrbsztk
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:48 am

Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:23 pm

TObound wrote:
When does the Mobile FAL come on stream and what's their delivery projection for 2020?

And is Mirabel supposed to hit 5/mo by the end of the year?


I don't know when exactly next year but sometime "mid 2020".
With 13 announced deliveries for 2020 from Mobile I am guessing it'll be an earlier mid year than later mid year.

Re Mirabel, I am thinking they might plateau at a little over 4 a month.

For the rest of 2019 they have 5 months to deliver 22 planes to reach goal of 45. They can do 4 a month with a December push of 6 to hit that.

For 2020 and 2021 based on announced orders/deliveries they are in the mid 40s (including my best guess of 8 for AF in 2021). There are 62 options btwn EgyptAir, Korean, and Swiss, 150 orders with lessors, plus the shaky backlog orders that could also add to 2020 and 2021 deliveries. With nothing announced yet though I don't think there will be a lot if any in 2020, although Deltas top up order of 5 could be 2020 instead of 2021. As it is, if you combine 2020 and 2021 Mirabel is looking at 90, and move 3 from 2020 to 2019 so they can hit the goal of 45, so 87 announced deliveries for 2020-21. They need to at least announce, if not assign, about 10 slots just to keep at 4/month. If they were to reach 5/month by end of 2019 that means about 30 slots.

Keep in mind, the supply chain is ramping up with Mobile even if Mirabel plateaus for a couple years. I've seen reports the Mirabel preFAL will come online 2021, so I'm wondering if getting the preFAL is required for Mirabel to increase beyond a little over 4 per month.
 
rrbsztk
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:48 am

Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:35 pm

rrbsztk wrote:
Delivery Schedule of Reported/Announced A220 Deliveries
Update: Added Air France and Air Tanzania recent orders.
???Anyone have better info on the Air France delivery schedule. I went off deliveries starting in September 2021 and spread it out over 5 years

BOLD is reported in news/press release/filings
underline is reported by A.net user
italics is when i evened deliveries out based on known data as best able

Mobile (presuming all A223 for Delta, JetBlue, and Moxy)
YEAR......2019...2020...2021...2022...2023...2024...2025
Delta A223s..........6.......12........17.......15
JetBlue..................1........6..........8........19.......22.......14..
Moxy......................6.......12.......12.......15.......15
MOBILE TOTAL....13......30.......37.......49.......37.......14

Mirabel (all others)
YEAR......2019...2020...2021...2022...2023...2024...2025
Air Baltic.....8.......12.......12........4
Air Canada 1.......14........15......15
Air France........................8........13.......13.......13........13
Air Tanzania.........2
Air Vanuatu ..........2.........2
Delta A221s..24....12.......5 (their top up order from Paris Air Show, could be sooner)
EgyptAir.......6........6
Korean Air...1
Swiss.......... 2
YEAR......2019...2020...2021...2022...2023...2024...2025
MIRABEL...42......48........42......32.......13.......13........13

Mirabel and Mobile Combined
YEAR......2019...2020...2021...2022...2023...2024...2025
TOTAL........42......61.......72......69........62......50......27
For 2019 Airbus has reported a goal of 45. My best guess is EgyptAir will receive one or two more and Delta as well. I didn't switch it in table because that's only a slightly informed guess.

Possible Orders to be added (not included are lessor options or shaky orders like Iraqi airways)
YEAR......2019...2020...2021...2022...2023...2024...2025
Lessors....150 ---> ---> ---> ---> ---> ---> --->
Possible Options to be added
YEAR......2019...2020...2021...2022...2023...2024...2025
EqyptAir...............12...---> ---> .---> --->
Swiss...................30 .---> ---> ---> --->
Korean..................20 .---> ---> .---> --->
Air Baltic.....................................30 .---> ---> .---> --->
Air Canada.................................30 .---> ---> .---> --->
Delta......................................................50 .---> ---> .--->
JetBlue........................................................................50 .--->
Air France...................................................................60 .--->

Data in previous posts, primarily #s 59, 130, and 263 in this thread.


Air Canada should be italic 15s for 2021 and 22, not underlined.
 
T4thH
Posts: 293
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:40 pm

basspaul wrote:
runway23 wrote:
T4thH wrote:

The 50018 has been already delivered on 02-Jul-2019.
The last left is, if I remember correctly, the 50019. Produced already more than 2 years ago. They will do the same, they have already done with the 50018, to modify and upgrade them to the up to date production status, so Swiss will get a brand new up to date bird. To upgrade them has been shown for the 018 to be much more than expected work and will spent much more time than thought.


What are the differences between a 2 year old build and now ?

The real reason as to why these 2 planes weren't delivered back when they were built isn't very clear either.


The first 20 or so CS100's were in production before certification. I believe Swiss asked to start with later builds to get as much change management incorporated into baseline design. I'm guessing the earlier birds are being delivered as per contract order, but there's obviously still some reworking left to do to get it to production spec's.


Why these two birds have been parked for two years; it is not really known. I have heard also the story of the preferred delivery of the A220-300 but...
The first produced birds of a new product are always sold with a big discount, These are regular less or more pre-serial/first serial products with several disadvantages, like they were heavier, limited certifications (and will never get all certifications later on, in this case it is unlikely, that they will ever get an ETOPS 180 min certification as example or the MTOW increase). They lack of the "terrible teen syndrome", will spent more fuel e.g. will regular have a shortened live time of only 10 to 20 years (instead of regular up to 30). As they are sold with a really big discount to the first customers, it is still fine.

50.018 and 50.019 will be rebuild and upgraded to the up to date delivery status, so Swiss will get 2 birds which are not any more terrible teens, so they will likely have a full live of up to 30 years. 018 was for more than one year in upgrade and fit out, it just shows how difficult it is, to upgrade these terrible teen birds.

Regarding serial production numbers of the A220-100 version: 001 to 005 were test birds. Brathens should have been the first customer, but after production already started, delayed the order and later has cancelled it. 006 was the first serial produced bird, it was fully completed but never delivered and is stored somewhere in Witchita. 007, 008 and 009 were never completed/fit out, stored in Montreal on the Bombardier/Airbus area and will be scrapped (if not already?) or are still stored....Seems they will never be completed and are write offs,
Swiss agreed with Bombardier to start with 010. So 018 and 019 were really early numbers.
 
DALCE
Posts: 1909
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:45 pm

Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:39 am

LX also gave priority to the CS300 due to the ending of some 319 & 320 lease contracts.
The Avro's could soldier on more easily. Seatwise it made more sense for the network with the limited engines available.
flown: F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,CS3,E75,E90,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,
753,763,744,77W,788,319,320,321,333,AB6.
 
T4thH
Posts: 293
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:40 am

rrbsztk wrote:
Delivery Schedule of Reported/Announced A220 Deliveries
Update: Added Air France and Air Tanzania recent orders.
???Anyone have better info on the Air France delivery schedule. I went off deliveries starting in September 2021 and spread it out over 5 years

BOLD is reported in news/press release/filings
underline is reported by A.net user
italics is when i evened deliveries out based on known data as best able

Mobile (presuming all A223 for Delta, JetBlue, and Moxy)
YEAR......2019...2020...2021...2022...2023...2024...2025
Delta A223s..........6.......12........17.......15
JetBlue..................1........6..........8........19.......22.......14..
Moxy......................6.......12.......12.......15.......15
MOBILE TOTAL....13......30.......37.......49.......37.......14

Mirabel (all others)
YEAR......2019...2020...2021...2022...2023...2024...2025
Air Baltic.....8.......12.......12........4
Air Canada 1.......14........15......15
Air France........................8........13.......13.......13........13
Air Tanzania.........2
Air Vanuatu ..........2.........2
Delta A221s..24....12.......5 (their top up order from Paris Air Show, could be sooner)
EgyptAir.......6........6
Korean Air...1
Swiss.......... 2
YEAR......2019...2020...2021...2022...2023...2024...2025
MIRABEL...42......48........42......32.......13.......13........13

Mirabel and Mobile Combined
YEAR......2019...2020...2021...2022...2023...2024...2025
TOTAL........42......61.......72......69........62......50......27
For 2019 Airbus has reported a goal of 45. My best guess is EgyptAir will receive one or two more and Delta as well. I didn't switch it in table because that's only a slightly informed guess.

Possible Orders to be added (not included are lessor options or shaky orders like Iraqi airways)
YEAR......2019...2020...2021...2022...2023...2024...2025
Lessors....150 ---> ---> ---> ---> ---> ---> --->
Possible Options to be added
YEAR......2019...2020...2021...2022...2023...2024...2025
EqyptAir...............12...---> ---> .---> --->
Swiss...................30 .---> ---> ---> --->
Korean..................20 .---> ---> .---> --->
Air Baltic.....................................30 .---> ---> .---> --->
Air Canada.................................30 .---> ---> .---> --->
Delta......................................................50 .---> ---> .--->
JetBlue........................................................................50 .--->
Air France...................................................................60 .--->

Data in previous posts, primarily #s 59, 130, and 263 in this thread.

The 10 options for the Korean Airlines have scheduled delivery dates starting in 2022. The 10 x options will be taken by KAL (as "confirmed" by KAL Ceo) bur firmed on last possible date (24 to (18 in best case) month prior scheduled delivery date), so in 2020, latest 2021. The other 10 are purchase rights, seems KAL is waiting for the A220-500. Source was part of an interview (German or English aviation news) with KAL Ceo around the IATA meeting in May/Jun-2019 in Korea, I have searched, but am not any more able to find it (or a comparable).
As just seen, delivery start day for the jet blue options is or was 2025.
https://www.sfgate.com/travel/article/Airbus-A220-airline-favorite-13520812.php
JetBlue is expected to start receiving its first new A220s in 2020 to replace its 100-passenger Embraer 190s. Besides its initial order for 60, the carrier has an option for 60 more starting in 2025.

As they have now taken 10 of the options, we do not know, when the delivery dates for the other 50 are.

Regarding Mobile total production numbers; these are to high. The maximum capacity is 4/month for the Mobile FAL; a production year will be something around 11 month. So maximum will be something around 44 per year in Mobile.
First delivery will be mid of 2020, they will start with around 1 per month, they will reach 2/month during year 2021, 3 during 2023 and reach maximum capacity of 4 around 2024. To expect 13 in 2020 is silly. With luck (my estimation) we will see something around 6 in 2020, 20 in 2021, 30 in 2023, 40 in 2024 and 45 in 2025. I will be happy to be wrong and to see more/higher numbers earlier. Expected production numbers in Mobile have been announced during this year Jan/Feb-2019 Airbus US/Canada advertisement tour with around 50 reporters through all US and Canada Airbus facilities regarding start of the A220 Mobile FAL construction.
I have posted all these sources month ago somewhere else in this boards, I do not find the sources any more.
 
rrbsztk
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:48 am

Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:12 am

T4thH wrote:
rrbsztk wrote:
Delivery Schedule of Reported/Announced A220 Deliveries
Update: Added Air France and Air Tanzania recent orders.
???Anyone have better info on the Air France delivery schedule. I went off deliveries starting in September 2021 and spread it out over 5 years

BOLD is reported in news/press release/filings
underline is reported by A.net user
italics is when i evened deliveries out based on known data as best able

Mobile (presuming all A223 for Delta, JetBlue, and Moxy)
YEAR......2019...2020...2021...2022...2023...2024...2025
Delta A223s..........6.......12........17.......15
JetBlue..................1........6..........8........19.......22.......14..
Moxy......................6.......12.......12.......15.......15
MOBILE TOTAL....13......30.......37.......49.......37.......14

Mirabel (all others)
YEAR......2019...2020...2021...2022...2023...2024...2025
Air Baltic.....8.......12.......12........4
Air Canada 1.......14........15......15
Air France........................8........13.......13.......13........13
Air Tanzania.........2
Air Vanuatu ..........2.........2
Delta A221s..24....12.......5 (their top up order from Paris Air Show, could be sooner)
EgyptAir.......6........6
Korean Air...1
Swiss.......... 2
YEAR......2019...2020...2021...2022...2023...2024...2025
MIRABEL...42......48........42......32.......13.......13........13

Mirabel and Mobile Combined
YEAR......2019...2020...2021...2022...2023...2024...2025
TOTAL........42......61.......72......69........62......50......27
For 2019 Airbus has reported a goal of 45. My best guess is EgyptAir will receive one or two more and Delta as well. I didn't switch it in table because that's only a slightly informed guess.

Possible Orders to be added (not included are lessor options or shaky orders like Iraqi airways)
YEAR......2019...2020...2021...2022...2023...2024...2025
Lessors....150 ---> ---> ---> ---> ---> ---> --->
Possible Options to be added
YEAR......2019...2020...2021...2022...2023...2024...2025
EqyptAir...............12...---> ---> .---> --->
Swiss...................30 .---> ---> ---> --->
Korean..................20 .---> ---> .---> --->
Air Baltic.....................................30 .---> ---> .---> --->
Air Canada.................................30 .---> ---> .---> --->
Delta......................................................50 .---> ---> .--->
JetBlue........................................................................50 .--->
Air France...................................................................60 .--->

Data in previous posts, primarily #s 59, 130, and 263 in this thread.

The 10 options for the Korean Airlines have scheduled delivery dates starting in 2022. The 10 x options will be taken by KAL (as "confirmed" by KAL Ceo) bur firmed on last possible date (24 to (18 in best case) month prior scheduled delivery date), so in 2020, latest 2021. The other 10 are purchase rights, seems KAL is waiting for the A220-500. Source was part of an interview (German or English aviation news) with KAL Ceo around the IATA meeting in May/Jun-2019 in Korea, I have searched, but am not any more able to find it (or a comparable).
As just seen, delivery start day for the jet blue options is or was 2025.
https://www.sfgate.com/travel/article/Airbus-A220-airline-favorite-13520812.php
JetBlue is expected to start receiving its first new A220s in 2020 to replace its 100-passenger Embraer 190s. Besides its initial order for 60, the carrier has an option for 60 more starting in 2025.

As they have now taken 10 of the options, we do not know, when the delivery dates for the other 50 are.

Regarding Mobile total production numbers; these are to high. The maximum capacity is 4/month for the Mobile FAL; a production year will be something around 11 month. So maximum will be something around 44 per year in Mobile.
First delivery will be mid of 2020, they will start with around 1 per month, they will reach 2/month during year 2021, 3 during 2023 and reach maximum capacity of 4 around 2024. To expect 13 in 2020 is silly. With luck (my estimation) we will see something around 6 in 2020, 20 in 2021, 30 in 2023, 40 in 2024 and 45 in 2025. I will be happy to be wrong and to see more/higher numbers earlier. Expected production numbers in Mobile have been announced during this year Jan/Feb-2019 Airbus US/Canada advertisement tour with around 50 reporters through all US and Canada Airbus facilities regarding start of the A220 Mobile FAL construction.
I have posted all these sources month ago somewhere else in this boards, I do not find the sources any more.


When i first added options to the table i included an explanation on putting them in all based on year of last scheduled delivery. I'll add a briefer version of that next time i update it. I've looked for detailed info on options dates and there's a lot less info out there than delivery dates.

I've looked and can't find anything in an English source about Korean options yet.

Re Mobile #s, just over a year ago Leeham posted those numbers (and then JetBlue shuffled a little so table got updated accordingly). They also indicated a slightly faster ramp up:
"Production ramp-up of the Mobile FAL will begin at 2/mo. The current plan is to ramp up to 3/mo in 2021 and 4/mo in 2022. A rate of 4/mo is currently the top production rate planned, although LNC was told the FAL will have higher capacity.

https://leehamnews.com/2018/07/11/futur ... -capacity/

Re max capacity, airbus's latest press release says "By the middle of next decade, the facility will produce between 40 and 50 A220 aircraft per year" so I'm optimistic when they've been saying 4/month they don't mean only 44/year.

Note I'm not saying I think you're wrong about the actual rate production will ramp up in Mobile. I definitely have wondered if they were over optimistic and it'll be slower. Certainly 40-50 by mid next decade is not as optimistic. However, based on the latest reports of detailed information out there to the best of my knowledge these numbers are accurate.

Please share if you find any of the sources you referred to, and I'll update it.
 
gokmengs
Posts: 1188
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:48 am

Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:32 am

bspc wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
Has anyone noticed that production seems to be slowing? There is only one plane that has made a flight that has not delivered yet.

This is according to the aibfamily and abcdlist websites. One would think that there would be 2-4 undergoing pre-delivery flights at all times by this point.


I believe it's Summer vacation Time. It's also calmer than usual in Toulouse and Hamburg.

If there is one company that shouldn’t be taking a summer vacation thats BBD aircraft, I mean here we are how many years into production and the only thing even after Airbus buyout thats holding this aircraft model to be a slam dunk success is its delivery rate, its borderline pathetic and I think it will the biggest catalyst for E2 sales, who would like to order an aircraft that they can’t get for 4-5 years. I understand the lead times in commercial aircraft is long and companies plan ahead, but this delivery issue is the number 1 disadvantage that A220 has right now, hoping Airbus will right the ship soon.
Yaşa Mustafa Kemal Paşa Yaşa, Adın Yazılacak Mücevher Taşa
 
Amiga500
Posts: 2298
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:22 am

Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:32 am

gokmengs wrote:
If there is one company that shouldn’t be taking a summer vacation thats BBD aircraft,


No point flogging the worker bees - if the line isn't wide enough to work more aircraft, then its not their fault.

Continually pushing them to do more faster only results in good people leaving and mistakes. Both of which leave you in even worse shape.
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 1171
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:27 pm

gokmengs wrote:
bspc wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
Has anyone noticed that production seems to be slowing? There is only one plane that has made a flight that has not delivered yet.

This is according to the aibfamily and abcdlist websites. One would think that there would be 2-4 undergoing pre-delivery flights at all times by this point.


I believe it's Summer vacation Time. It's also calmer than usual in Toulouse and Hamburg.

If there is one company that shouldn’t be taking a summer vacation thats BBD aircraft, I mean here we are how many years into production and the only thing even after Airbus buyout thats holding this aircraft model to be a slam dunk success is its delivery rate, its borderline pathetic and I think it will the biggest catalyst for E2 sales, who would like to order an aircraft that they can’t get for 4-5 years. I understand the lead times in commercial aircraft is long and companies plan ahead, but this delivery issue is the number 1 disadvantage that A220 has right now, hoping Airbus will right the ship soon.

Tell that to the airlines who bought the A320neo or 737MAX...
 
southsky
Posts: 115
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2005 4:07 am

Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:58 pm

Video of the first "USA" A220 starting assembly at BFM:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6hJ23uhV10
 
9252fly
Posts: 948
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:19 am

Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:45 pm

southsky wrote:
Video of the first "USA" A220 starting assembly at BFM:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6hJ23uhV10


Very cool video,thank you! With all the posts commenting on the issue of production rates,it's nice to see something positve.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 17920
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:50 pm

rrbsztk wrote:
T4thH wrote:
rrbsztk wrote:
Delivery Schedule of Reported/Announced A220 Deliveries
Update: Added Air France and Air Tanzania recent orders.
???Anyone have better info on the Air France delivery schedule. I went off deliveries starting in September 2021 and spread it out over 5 years

BOLD is reported in news/press release/filings
underline is reported by A.net user
italics is when i evened deliveries out based on known data as best able

Mobile (presuming all A223 for Delta, JetBlue, and Moxy)
YEAR......2019...2020...2021...2022...2023...2024...2025
Delta A223s..........6.......12........17.......15
JetBlue..................1........6..........8........19.......22.......14..
Moxy......................6.......12.......12.......15.......15
MOBILE TOTAL....13......30.......37.......49.......37.......14

Mirabel (all others)
YEAR......2019...2020...2021...2022...2023...2024...2025
Air Baltic.....8.......12.......12........4
Air Canada 1.......14........15......15
Air France........................8........13.......13.......13........13
Air Tanzania.........2
Air Vanuatu ..........2.........2
Delta A221s..24....12.......5 (their top up order from Paris Air Show, could be sooner)
EgyptAir.......6........6
Korean Air...1
Swiss.......... 2
YEAR......2019...2020...2021...2022...2023...2024...2025
MIRABEL...42......48........42......32.......13.......13........13

Mirabel and Mobile Combined
YEAR......2019...2020...2021...2022...2023...2024...2025
TOTAL........42......61.......72......69........62......50......27
For 2019 Airbus has reported a goal of 45. My best guess is EgyptAir will receive one or two more and Delta as well. I didn't switch it in table because that's only a slightly informed guess.

Possible Orders to be added (not included are lessor options or shaky orders like Iraqi airways)
YEAR......2019...2020...2021...2022...2023...2024...2025
Lessors....150 ---> ---> ---> ---> ---> ---> --->
Possible Options to be added
YEAR......2019...2020...2021...2022...2023...2024...2025
EqyptAir...............12...---> ---> .---> --->
Swiss...................30 .---> ---> ---> --->
Korean..................20 .---> ---> .---> --->
Air Baltic.....................................30 .---> ---> .---> --->
Air Canada.................................30 .---> ---> .---> --->
Delta......................................................50 .---> ---> .--->
JetBlue........................................................................50 .--->
Air France...................................................................60 .--->

Data in previous posts, primarily #s 59, 130, and 263 in this thread.

The 10 options for the Korean Airlines have scheduled delivery dates starting in 2022. The 10 x options will be taken by KAL (as "confirmed" by KAL Ceo) bur firmed on last possible date (24 to (18 in best case) month prior scheduled delivery date), so in 2020, latest 2021. The other 10 are purchase rights, seems KAL is waiting for the A220-500. Source was part of an interview (German or English aviation news) with KAL Ceo around the IATA meeting in May/Jun-2019 in Korea, I have searched, but am not any more able to find it (or a comparable).
As just seen, delivery start day for the jet blue options is or was 2025.
https://www.sfgate.com/travel/article/Airbus-A220-airline-favorite-13520812.php
JetBlue is expected to start receiving its first new A220s in 2020 to replace its 100-passenger Embraer 190s. Besides its initial order for 60, the carrier has an option for 60 more starting in 2025.

As they have now taken 10 of the options, we do not know, when the delivery dates for the other 50 are.

Regarding Mobile total production numbers; these are to high. The maximum capacity is 4/month for the Mobile FAL; a production year will be something around 11 month. So maximum will be something around 44 per year in Mobile.
First delivery will be mid of 2020, they will start with around 1 per month, they will reach 2/month during year 2021, 3 during 2023 and reach maximum capacity of 4 around 2024. To expect 13 in 2020 is silly. With luck (my estimation) we will see something around 6 in 2020, 20 in 2021, 30 in 2023, 40 in 2024 and 45 in 2025. I will be happy to be wrong and to see more/higher numbers earlier. Expected production numbers in Mobile have been announced during this year Jan/Feb-2019 Airbus US/Canada advertisement tour with around 50 reporters through all US and Canada Airbus facilities regarding start of the A220 Mobile FAL construction.
I have posted all these sources month ago somewhere else in this boards, I do not find the sources any more.


When i first added options to the table i included an explanation on putting them in all based on year of last scheduled delivery. I'll add a briefer version of that next time i update it. I've looked for detailed info on options dates and there's a lot less info out there than delivery dates.

I've looked and can't find anything in an English source about Korean options yet.

Re Mobile #s, just over a year ago Leeham posted those numbers (and then JetBlue shuffled a little so table got updated accordingly). They also indicated a slightly faster ramp up:
"Production ramp-up of the Mobile FAL will begin at 2/mo. The current plan is to ramp up to 3/mo in 2021 and 4/mo in 2022. A rate of 4/mo is currently the top production rate planned, although LNC was told the FAL will have higher capacity.

https://leehamnews.com/2018/07/11/futur ... -capacity/

Re max capacity, airbus's latest press release says "By the middle of next decade, the facility will produce between 40 and 50 A220 aircraft per year" so I'm optimistic when they've been saying 4/month they don't mean only 44/year.

Note I'm not saying I think you're wrong about the actual rate production will ramp up in Mobile. I definitely have wondered if they were over optimistic and it'll be slower. Certainly 40-50 by mid next decade is not as optimistic. However, based on the latest reports of detailed information out there to the best of my knowledge these numbers are accurate.

Please share if you find any of the sources you referred to, and I'll update it.

Thank you for the links/summary.

To further add to that detail, I believe there is enough land to split the work between multiple buildings. 3 years to build, 18 months to ramp.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
audidudi
Posts: 2096
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:35 pm

Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:21 pm

southsky wrote:
Video of the first "USA" A220 starting assembly at BFM:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6hJ23uhV10

And, somewhat appropriately, this MSN 55069 will be DL's first A220-300!
 
T4thH
Posts: 293
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:25 pm

lightsaber wrote:
rrbsztk wrote:
T4thH wrote:
The 10 options for the Korean Airlines have scheduled delivery dates starting in 2022. The 10 x options will be taken by KAL (as "confirmed" by KAL Ceo) bur firmed on last possible date (24 to (18 in best case) month prior scheduled delivery date), so in 2020, latest 2021. The other 10 are purchase rights, seems KAL is waiting for the A220-500. Source was part of an interview (German or English aviation news) with KAL Ceo around the IATA meeting in May/Jun-2019 in Korea, I have searched, but am not any more able to find it (or a comparable).
As just seen, delivery start day for the jet blue options is or was 2025.
https://www.sfgate.com/travel/article/Airbus-A220-airline-favorite-13520812.php

As they have now taken 10 of the options, we do not know, when the delivery dates for the other 50 are.

Regarding Mobile total production numbers; these are to high. The maximum capacity is 4/month for the Mobile FAL; a production year will be something around 11 month. So maximum will be something around 44 per year in Mobile.
First delivery will be mid of 2020, they will start with around 1 per month, they will reach 2/month during year 2021, 3 during 2023 and reach maximum capacity of 4 around 2024. To expect 13 in 2020 is silly. With luck (my estimation) we will see something around 6 in 2020, 20 in 2021, 30 in 2023, 40 in 2024 and 45 in 2025. I will be happy to be wrong and to see more/higher numbers earlier. Expected production numbers in Mobile have been announced during this year Jan/Feb-2019 Airbus US/Canada advertisement tour with around 50 reporters through all US and Canada Airbus facilities regarding start of the A220 Mobile FAL construction.
I have posted all these sources month ago somewhere else in this boards, I do not find the sources any more.


When i first added options to the table i included an explanation on putting them in all based on year of last scheduled delivery. I'll add a briefer version of that next time i update it. I've looked for detailed info on options dates and there's a lot less info out there than delivery dates.

I've looked and can't find anything in an English source about Korean options yet.

Re Mobile #s, just over a year ago Leeham posted those numbers (and then JetBlue shuffled a little so table got updated accordingly). They also indicated a slightly faster ramp up:
"Production ramp-up of the Mobile FAL will begin at 2/mo. The current plan is to ramp up to 3/mo in 2021 and 4/mo in 2022. A rate of 4/mo is currently the top production rate planned, although LNC was told the FAL will have higher capacity.

https://leehamnews.com/2018/07/11/futur ... -capacity/

Re max capacity, airbus's latest press release says "By the middle of next decade, the facility will produce between 40 and 50 A220 aircraft per year" so I'm optimistic when they've been saying 4/month they don't mean only 44/year.

Note I'm not saying I think you're wrong about the actual rate production will ramp up in Mobile. I definitely have wondered if they were over optimistic and it'll be slower. Certainly 40-50 by mid next decade is not as optimistic. However, based on the latest reports of detailed information out there to the best of my knowledge these numbers are accurate.

Please share if you find any of the sources you referred to, and I'll update it.

Thank you for the links/summary.

To further add to that detail, I believe there is enough land to split the work between multiple buildings. 3 years to build, 18 months to ramp.

Lightsaber

I really starting to get crazy, I do not find the links any more. I have now searched for 2 days and tried to find the Korean air ceo interview, I have read dozens of news e.g.; It is just one sentence in one of the dozens of interview around the IATA meeting and I have not found the right one.

Regarding Mobile production numbers, I also do not find the right one any more: What I have found (while I was searching for the KAL statement (so unexpected): It is from 05-May-2019, interview with Rob Dewar. He is still the primary sales manager for the A220 -program, so pretty sure, he is well enough informed. His career stated at Canada air, Bombardier and now Airbus and reguzlar stated as the man behind the whole CS program at Bombardier.
https://www.aero.de/news-31572/Airbus-positioniert-A220-fuer-Langstrecken.html
Während in Mirabel derzeit vier Flugzeuge im Monat gebaut werden und Kapazitäten für zehn pro Monat reichen wird es in Mobile zunächst nur eine A220 im Monat sein und bis 2024/2025 dann vier monatlich.


While in Mirabel production is now at 4/month and capacity (of the FAL) is good for up to ten, in Mobile, first one per month will be produced and in 2024/2025 4 per month.
 
yyztpa2
Posts: 30
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:33 pm

T4thH wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
rrbsztk wrote:

When i first added options to the table i included an explanation on putting them in all based on year of last scheduled delivery. I'll add a briefer version of that next time i update it. I've looked for detailed info on options dates and there's a lot less info out there than delivery dates.

I've looked and can't find anything in an English source about Korean options yet.

Re Mobile #s, just over a year ago Leeham posted those numbers (and then JetBlue shuffled a little so table got updated accordingly). They also indicated a slightly faster ramp up:
"Production ramp-up of the Mobile FAL will begin at 2/mo. The current plan is to ramp up to 3/mo in 2021 and 4/mo in 2022. A rate of 4/mo is currently the top production rate planned, although LNC was told the FAL will have higher capacity.

https://leehamnews.com/2018/07/11/futur ... -capacity/

Re max capacity, airbus's latest press release says "By the middle of next decade, the facility will produce between 40 and 50 A220 aircraft per year" so I'm optimistic when they've been saying 4/month they don't mean only 44/year.

Note I'm not saying I think you're wrong about the actual rate production will ramp up in Mobile. I definitely have wondered if they were over optimistic and it'll be slower. Certainly 40-50 by mid next decade is not as optimistic. However, based on the latest reports of detailed information out there to the best of my knowledge these numbers are accurate.

Please share if you find any of the sources you referred to, and I'll update it.

Thank you for the links/summary.

To further add to that detail, I believe there is enough land to split the work between multiple buildings. 3 years to build, 18 months to ramp.

Lightsaber

I really starting to get crazy, I do not find the links any more. I have now searched for 2 days and tried to find the Korean air ceo interview, I have read dozens of news e.g.; It is just one sentence in one of the dozens of interview around the IATA meeting and I have not found the right one.

Regarding Mobile production numbers, I also do not find the right one any more: What I have found (while I was searching for the KAL statement (so unexpected): It is from 05-May-2019, interview with Rob Dewar. He is still the primary sales manager for the A220 -program, so pretty sure, he is well enough informed. His career stated at Canada air, Bombardier and now Airbus and reguzlar stated as the man behind the whole CS program at Bombardier.
https://www.aero.de/news-31572/Airbus-positioniert-A220-fuer-Langstrecken.html
Während in Mirabel derzeit vier Flugzeuge im Monat gebaut werden und Kapazitäten für zehn pro Monat reichen wird es in Mobile zunächst nur eine A220 im Monat sein und bis 2024/2025 dann vier monatlich.


While in Mirabel production is now at 4/month and capacity (of the FAL) is good for up to ten, in Mobile, first one per month will be produced and in 2024/2025 4 per month.


Was it this?;
https://airlinerwatch.com/korean-air-is ... rbus-a220/
 
T4thH
Posts: 293
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:44 pm

No, I have read this one already...5 times?
It was around this IATA meeting in Korea and it is one of these (around 20) with Korean Air ceo Cho Won-tae.
Perhaps I have already posted the link here, I will search my own posts.
 
rrbsztk
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:48 am

Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:10 am

T4thH wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
rrbsztk wrote:

When i first added options to the table i included an explanation on putting them in all based on year of last scheduled delivery. I'll add a briefer version of that next time i update it. I've looked for detailed info on options dates and there's a lot less info out there than delivery dates.

I've looked and can't find anything in an English source about Korean options yet.

Re Mobile #s, just over a year ago Leeham posted those numbers (and then JetBlue shuffled a little so table got updated accordingly). They also indicated a slightly faster ramp up:
"Production ramp-up of the Mobile FAL will begin at 2/mo. The current plan is to ramp up to 3/mo in 2021 and 4/mo in 2022. A rate of 4/mo is currently the top production rate planned, although LNC was told the FAL will have higher capacity.

https://leehamnews.com/2018/07/11/futur ... -capacity/

Re max capacity, airbus's latest press release says "By the middle of next decade, the facility will produce between 40 and 50 A220 aircraft per year" so I'm optimistic when they've been saying 4/month they don't mean only 44/year.

Note I'm not saying I think you're wrong about the actual rate production will ramp up in Mobile. I definitely have wondered if they were over optimistic and it'll be slower. Certainly 40-50 by mid next decade is not as optimistic. However, based on the latest reports of detailed information out there to the best of my knowledge these numbers are accurate.

Please share if you find any of the sources you referred to, and I'll update it.

Thank you for the links/summary.

To further add to that detail, I believe there is enough land to split the work between multiple buildings. 3 years to build, 18 months to ramp.

Lightsaber

I really starting to get crazy, I do not find the links any more. I have now searched for 2 days and tried to find the Korean air ceo interview, I have read dozens of news e.g.; It is just one sentence in one of the dozens of interview around the IATA meeting and I have not found the right one.

Regarding Mobile production numbers, I also do not find the right one any more: What I have found (while I was searching for the KAL statement (so unexpected): It is from 05-May-2019, interview with Rob Dewar. He is still the primary sales manager for the A220 -program, so pretty sure, he is well enough informed. His career stated at Canada air, Bombardier and now Airbus and reguzlar stated as the man behind the whole CS program at Bombardier.
https://www.aero.de/news-31572/Airbus-positioniert-A220-fuer-Langstrecken.html
Während in Mirabel derzeit vier Flugzeuge im Monat gebaut werden und Kapazitäten für zehn pro Monat reichen wird es in Mobile zunächst nur eine A220 im Monat sein und bis 2024/2025 dann vier monatlich.


While in Mirabel production is now at 4/month and capacity (of the FAL) is good for up to ten, in Mobile, first one per month will be produced and in 2024/2025 4 per month.

Thanks. I'm going to do some digging on the Mobile numbers (since i found the article a year ago i haven't actually actively looked for any information on the mobile deliveries expected so hopefully i find something) and will either share that or add a disclaimer to the mobile part of the table that more recent news reports indicate this will likely be slower.
 
rrbsztk
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:48 am

Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:37 am

rrbsztk wrote:
T4thH wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Thank you for the links/summary.

To further add to that detail, I believe there is enough land to split the work between multiple buildings. 3 years to build, 18 months to ramp.

Lightsaber

I really starting to get crazy, I do not find the links any more. I have now searched for 2 days and tried to find the Korean air ceo interview, I have read dozens of news e.g.; It is just one sentence in one of the dozens of interview around the IATA meeting and I have not found the right one.

Regarding Mobile production numbers, I also do not find the right one any more: What I have found (while I was searching for the KAL statement (so unexpected): It is from 05-May-2019, interview with Rob Dewar. He is still the primary sales manager for the A220 -program, so pretty sure, he is well enough informed. His career stated at Canada air, Bombardier and now Airbus and reguzlar stated as the man behind the whole CS program at Bombardier.
https://www.aero.de/news-31572/Airbus-positioniert-A220-fuer-Langstrecken.html
Während in Mirabel derzeit vier Flugzeuge im Monat gebaut werden und Kapazitäten für zehn pro Monat reichen wird es in Mobile zunächst nur eine A220 im Monat sein und bis 2024/2025 dann vier monatlich.


While in Mirabel production is now at 4/month and capacity (of the FAL) is good for up to ten, in Mobile, first one per month will be produced and in 2024/2025 4 per month.

Thanks. I'm going to do some digging on the Mobile numbers (since i found the article a year ago i haven't actually actively looked for any information on the mobile deliveries expected so hopefully i find something) and will either share that or add a disclaimer to the mobile part of the table that more recent news reports indicate this will likely be slower.


I somehow missed Moxy last month sharing dates. They are starting April 2021 so that will bring Mobile #s to better match the latest news. I'll update table sometime tomorrow.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/worldairli ... -2021/amp/
 
Naincompetent
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:20 am

Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:37 pm

Republic's order for 40 has been removed from airbus backlog

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... -a-460186/
 
T4thH
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:47 pm

Naincompetent wrote:
Republic's order for 40 has been removed from airbus backlog

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... -a-460186/

It was long time dead. Republic had ordered them for Frontier, prior Frontier was sold to IndiGo Partners (and Republic went bankrupt). Republic can not fly A220 as they are a regional airline and bound by scope clauses. Already when Republic was rescued they would have been able to cancel the order without penalty. It was said, it has been agreed to not cancel it, instead to let it (without penalty, timeline e.g.).
As the scope clauses are still there/have not been changed with the unions...
It is a good time, the clean now the order book.
 
ExMilitaryEng
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:07 pm

FWIW, while it had been kept on the order book, it had been removed from the delivery scheduling a long time ago. So this removal is not having a big impact.

Republic probably attempted to resell those with a profit. But without comfirmed delivery slots, I'm not sure what kind of bargaining position you can have.
 
Skywatcher
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:30 am

I noticed on the Airbus site that an "unidentified customer" A220 had a first flight on Aug.04. Does anybody know which customer it is destined for?
 
rrbsztk
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:35 am

Skywatcher wrote:
I noticed on the Airbus site that an "unidentified customer" A220 had a first flight on Aug.04. Does anybody know which customer it is destined for?


It was supposed to be Red Wings. Not sure if they have a new customer lined up or just test flights to getthem done.
 
TObound
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:29 am

With Republic's cancellation, is there any room opening up? With the options taken up by the majors, I expect they'll be sold out till 2024.
 
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Polot
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:32 am

TObound wrote:
With Republic's cancellation, is there any room opening up? With the options taken up by the majors, I expect they'll be sold out till 2024.

Republic’s order was probably removed from the production schedule a long time ago. I doubt any slots were freed up from the cancellation.

ExMilitaryEng wrote:
FWIW, while it had been kept on the order book, it had been removed from the delivery scheduling a long time ago. So this removal is not having a big impact.

Republic probably attempted to resell those with a profit. But without comfirmed delivery slots, I'm not sure what kind of bargaining position you can have.

I also doubt Republic’s order terms were as favorable as you could get directly from BBD in the past couple of years, making reselling for a profit difficult. IIRC Republic ordered when gas prices were still very high, and before BBD was in full desperation to get customers mode. Early customers who were not full on launch customers overpaid for the aircraft. Granted not many of the solid current orders fall in that category.
 
smartplane
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:58 pm

ExMilitaryEng wrote:
Republic probably attempted to resell those with a profit. But without comfirmed delivery slots, I'm not sure what kind of bargaining position you can have.

The days of the customer being able to sell slots, undelivered and even just delivered aircraft are gone, though where smaller, less streetwise OEM's are concerned..............

The usual way to ensure compliance, other than including in the contract, is for re-sold aircraft to be excluded from earning retrospective credits, which detrimentally affects the ultimate, effective unit price paid for aircraft the original customer retains and sells.
 
yyztpa2
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:31 pm

rrbsztk wrote:
Skywatcher wrote:
I noticed on the Airbus site that an "unidentified customer" A220 had a first flight on Aug.04. Does anybody know which customer it is destined for?


It was supposed to be Red Wings. Not sure if they have a new customer lined up or just test flights to getthem done.

These are ordered by a Russian leasing company, STLC. They are likely pending Russian certification anticipated this summer before delivering with another Russian carrier.

When Red Wind cancelled, STLC indicated they didn't expect difficulty placing with another carrier. If test flights are occurring, certification must be near.
 
wrongwayup
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:58 pm

yyztpa2 wrote:
...STLC indicated they didn't expect difficulty placing with another carrier....


I hadn't heard this, do you have more info?
 
yyztpa2
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:47 am

wrongwayup wrote:
yyztpa2 wrote:
...STLC indicated they didn't expect difficulty placing with another carrier....


I hadn't heard this, do you have more info?

http://www.rusaviainsider.com/red-wings ... s-tu-204s/
Though article refers to GTLK

"Meanwhile, GTLK has confirmed to Russian Aviation Insider that Red Wings has indeed backed out of the deal because of the A220 price increase and, subsequently, the inflated leasing rates. “The price of the aircraft increased, which led to the escalation of the leasing rate. [Therefore] the contract with GTLK was annulled. The aircraft will be remarketed, as there’s demand for this type on the market,” insists Tamara Sudakova, representative for Russia’s largest leasing company.

The Airbus A220 still lacks a Russian type certificate."

Page 10 of this PDF shows the A223 included in their portfolio of 42 Airbus aircraft.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 5438428298
 
UA947
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:25 pm

yyztpa2 wrote:
wrongwayup wrote:
yyztpa2 wrote:
...STLC indicated they didn't expect difficulty placing with another carrier....


Though article refers to GTLK

State Transport Leasing Company (STLC) translates to Gosudarstvennaya Transportnaya Lizingovaya Kompaniya (GTLK)
 
SteelChair
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:32 pm

It seems like the number of new aircraft first flights has fallen precipitously. Production seems to be slowing down.
 
queb
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:06 pm

SteelChair wrote:
It seems like the number of new aircraft first flights has fallen precipitously. Production seems to be slowing down.


A220 workers just come back from a 3 weeks shutdown.
 
T4thH
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:39 pm

queb wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
It seems like the number of new aircraft first flights has fallen precipitously. Production seems to be slowing down.


A220 workers just come back from a 3 weeks shutdown.

It is called summer leave, with few exception, the Montreal FAL was down.
 
SteelChair
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:34 pm

T4thH wrote:
queb wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
It seems like the number of new aircraft first flights has fallen precipitously. Production seems to be slowing down.


A220 workers just come back from a 3 weeks shutdown.

It is called summer leave, with few exception, the Montreal FAL was down.


Wow, can't imagine that they just shut down the whole line instead of staggerig vacation. Mobile workers are gonna shame them.
 
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Slug71
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:42 pm

SteelChair wrote:
T4thH wrote:
queb wrote:

A220 workers just come back from a 3 weeks shutdown.

It is called summer leave, with few exception, the Montreal FAL was down.


Wow, can't imagine that they just shut down the whole line instead of staggerig vacation. Mobile workers are gonna shame them.


About every other country in the world except the US get mandatory paid leave. A lot of companies will shutdown for breaks. Most do it over the Xmas period.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:49 pm

Slug71 wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
T4thH wrote:
It is called summer leave, with few exception, the Montreal FAL was down.


Wow, can't imagine that they just shut down the whole line instead of staggerig vacation. Mobile workers are gonna shame them.


About every other country in the world except the US get mandatory paid leave. A lot of companies will shutdown for breaks. Most do it over the Xmas period.

I don't know about Mobile, but our factory has a two week shutdown in August. You cannot make an airplane without skill sets. It allows vendors to come in and perform maintenance on kilns, furnaces, machine tools. It gives a natural time for factory optimization too. E.g., put in a different line layout.

One cannot force hourly to take vacation, so a once a year contractual paid time off, in Liu of 2 weeks of vacation, works well.

Lightsaber
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StTim
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:33 pm

It also gives the opportunity for line upgrades as well as maintenance- without disrupting line operations.

Plus you get line staff who are properly refreshed as well. I know that in an anathema to many people in the USA but most of the world looks after their staff.
 
SteelChair
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:27 am

From a personnel point of view, I'm not saying no vacation. I'm saying don't shut the whole plant down at once. Don't give everyone vacation at once.

I can see the argument for upgrading plant and equipment during that time.

As far as the other snarky comments, yeah, that's why so many people want to come to the USA, people are treated so bad here.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:47 am

StTim wrote:
It also gives the opportunity for line upgrades as well as maintenance- without disrupting line operations.

Plus you get line staff who are properly refreshed as well. I know that in an anathema to many people in the USA but most of the world looks after their staff.

Please see my above post. A plant in the US! Shutdowns are common. Each industry is offset a little from other industries to maximize vendor availability for work on factories.

You do know the planned annual shutdown of factories came from Chevrolet, right?

Lightsaber
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rrbsztk
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:05 am

Delivery Schedule of Reported/Announced A220 Deliveries
BOLD is reported in news/press release/filings
underline is reported by A.net user
italics is when i evened deliveries out based on known data as best able
*#* is grains of salt, at best its a guess on year by year breakdown

Mobile (presuming all A223 for Delta, JetBlue, and Moxy)
YEAR......2019...2020...2021...2022...2023...2024...2025
Delta A223s..........6.......12......17.......15
JetBlue................1........6........8........19.......22.......14..
Moxy............ .......0........6......*12*....*12*.....*15*....*15*
MOBILE TOTAL....7......24.......37.......46.......37.......29
Mirabel (all others)
YEAR......2019...2020...2021...2022...2023...2024...2025
Air Baltic.....8.......12.......12.......4
Air Canada .1.......14.......15......15
Air France.....................*8*......*13*....*13*.....*13*.....*13*
Air Tanzania.........2
Air Vanuatu ..........2.........2
Delta A221s..24....12.......5
EgyptAir.......8........4
Korean Air...1
Swiss.......... 2
YEAR......2019...2020...2021...2022...2023...2024...2025
MIRABEL...44......46........42......32.......13......13.......13
COMBINED.44......53.......66......69........59......50......42
For 2019 Airbus has reported a goal of 45.

Possible Orders to be added
Not included are shaky orders like Iraqi or lessor options.
YEAR......2019...2020...2021...2022...2023...2024...2025
Lessors....150 ---> ---> ---> ---> ---> ---> --->---> --->---> --->
Possible Options/Purchase Rights/etc. to be added
YEAR......2019...2020...2021...2022...2023...2024...2025
EqyptAir...............12...---> ---> .---> --->
Swiss...................30 .---> ---> ---> --->
Korean..................20 .---> ---> .---> --->
Air Vanuatu.....................4 .---> ---> .---> --->
Air Baltic..................................30 .---> ---> .---> --->
Air Canada...............................30 .---> ---> .---> --->
Delta....................................................50 .---> ---> .--->
JetBlue......................................................................50 .--->
Air France..................................................................60 .--->
Lessors, with STLC theoretically could be as early as this year. Options are based on year of last scheduled delivery.
These dates are approximate, included to help visualize where A220 slots could be assigned.

Data in previous posts, primarily #s 59, 130, and 263 in this thread.
Updates in this post:
Added grain of salt format. For Air France, I know starting in 2021, and since the table ended in 2025 I decided to even 60 out from 2021 to 2025 keeping in mind it starts late in the year.
Moxy https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... -a220-300s They will get 9 leased from GECAS in 2021 and 2022. I took Leeham numbers, and pushed them all back 1 year.
Added Air Vanuatu purchase rights https://www.airvanuatu.com/home/contact ... -expansion
Looking at ABCDlist serial numbers, other expected deliveries announced, and Airbus's goal of 45 I switched Egyptair from 6 and 6 to 8 and 4.
 
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Slug71
Posts: 1385
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:08 am

Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:30 pm

SteelChair wrote:
From a personnel point of view, I'm not saying no vacation. I'm saying don't shut the whole plant down at once. Don't give everyone vacation at once.

I can see the argument for upgrading plant and equipment during that time.

As far as the other snarky comments, yeah, that's why so many people want to come to the USA, people are treated so bad here.


I hope you didn't take my comment as snarky. I certainly didn't intend for it to come across that way.
I love living in the US. But the US is a little behind when it comes to paid time off IMO.
 
Amiga500
Posts: 2298
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:22 am

Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:40 pm

SteelChair wrote:
I can see the argument for upgrading plant and equipment during that time.


The shutdowns are actually pretty pivotal to running the lines.

If you don't have uninterrupted time to do maintenance on the machines, you will inevitably end up in a failure and the line stopping unexpectedly.

Not hard to see which is (by far) the most disruptive!
 
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enilria
Posts: 9579
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

Republic Cancels A220 Order from 2010

Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:25 am

While this was expected since the order was made in 2010, I had not seen it officially cancelled till now. Originally the planes were for F9, but when the companies separated the order did not transfer.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... c-a-460186
 
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ssteve
Posts: 1360
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:32 am

Re: Republic Cancels A220 Order from 2010

Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:19 pm

Probably would have happened sooner if the program looked more stable. What was the order book looking like in 2017 when Airbus took over? 75 planes for Delta at low low cost?
 
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mercure1
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Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

Re: Republic Cancels A220 Order from 2010

Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:53 pm

This was posted a bit back in the A220 order/production thread when Airbus updated its order book.
mercure f-wtcc
 
drdisque
Posts: 1089
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:57 am

Re: Republic Cancels A220 Order from 2010

Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:59 pm

They probably held onto it with a slim sliver of hope that the production slots would hold some value. Alas, they don't. Their production build dates were probably coming up and they had to cancel.
 
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Polot
Posts: 9422
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Republic Cancels A220 Order from 2010

Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:05 pm

drdisque wrote:
They probably held onto it with a slim sliver of hope that the production slots would hold some value. Alas, they don't. Their production build dates were probably coming up and they had to cancel.

Production dates/slots were long since cancelled and new ones probably never reassigned.

Cancellation now is probably a mix of Airbus wanting to clear the dead orders out of the book and Republic potentially having an upcoming financial obligation in regards to the order (that BBD might have let slide, but Airbus won’t to get order off of books).
 
raylee67
Posts: 687
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:06 pm

Re: Republic Cancels A220 Order from 2010

Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:23 pm

Should these orders be cleaned out from the book too?
PrivatAir
Odyssey Airlines

And what about the Russian leasing companies? Are those orders still solid?
GTLK State Transport Leasing Co.
Ilyushin Finance Co.
319/20/21 332/33 342/43/45 351 388 707 717 732/36/3G/38/39 74R/42/43/44/4E/48 757 762/63 772/7L/73/7W 788/89 D10 M80 135/40/45 175/90 DH1/4 CRJ/R7 L10
AY LH OU SR BA FI
AA DL UA NW AC CP WS FL NK PD
CI NH SQ KA CX JL BR OZ TG KE CA CZ NZ JQ RS
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 5620
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Republic Cancels A220 Order from 2010

Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:24 pm

Most predictable outcome ever. Orders without carriers and profitable routes to fly them don't last. The VS A380 order. The utterly ridiculous Doric/Amedeo A380 order for twenty frames. Skywest's E2 order failing against DL/UA/AA scope.
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