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Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:17 pm
by jworks158
Roots1 wrote:
jworks158 wrote:
ROCDLFAN wrote:

The runway construction should be starting any day now. The 738 on ATL in the morning will be cool to see, but the 2X 717 turns are going to suck, in short. The MD’s aren’t being scheduled up here during the construction and that capacity cut will be felt.

It looks like the Seasonal TPA reduction is happening two months early this year, most likely due to the MAX cuts. BWI will be up to 4X frequency at the end of July as mentioned, and TPA will be back in the fall.


Runway Construction???


There is significant runway construction scheduled for this summer at ROC, including a period of time when 4/22 will be closed completely. But I was under the impression it was scheduled for later in the summer (e.g. August)


Can you elaborate more? What is involved in the runway construction? Is there a link which talks about this??

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:48 pm
by DCA-ROCguy
ROCDLFAN wrote:
The runway construction should be starting any day now. The 738 on ATL in the morning will be cool to see, but the 2X 717 turns are going to suck, in short. The MD’s aren’t being scheduled up here during the construction and that capacity cut will be felt.

It looks like the Seasonal TPA reduction is happening two months early this year, most likely due to the MAX cuts. BWI will be up to 4X frequency at the end of July as mentioned, and TPA will be back in the fall.


Terrific....runway construction at ROC. :( I remember when Delta *canceled service* to Atlanta for a month back in the early 2000's because they didn't want to waste the 727-200's taking a weight penalty using 10-28.

I didn't find anything about runway construction in the last couple of MCAA meetings. What's being done? Whatever it is, get it done quickly, please. Is FedEx being affected?

Jim

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:51 pm
by DCA-ROCguy
Roots1 wrote:
There is significant runway construction scheduled for this summer at ROC, including a period of time when 4/22 will be closed completely. This is likely at least partially driving Delta’s decision to pull the MD’s completely from ROC, given only the shorter 10/28 will be available during that time. But I was under the impression it was scheduled for later in the summer (e.g. August)


What the heck?? They just did construction that closed 4-22 completely in the early 2000's, and they're doing it again?? In summer?? What's going on?

Jim

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:19 pm
by cosyr
I just read that SYR won a $6.5 million grant to fix taxi ways.

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:44 pm
by United_fan
Well if 4/22 is closed,there is nowhere to spot. Guess i'll stay home. Hopefully it won't be too long.

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:41 pm
by WeatherPilot
Wasn’t there a proposal a couple years ago to extend 4/22 to 9,500ft? Is that what they’re doing?

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:22 pm
by ROCDLFAN
They started briefing the airlines about 6 months ago, this is all I could find on the MCAA website describing it-

Runway 4-22 and Taxiway Improvements

This project improves the existing runway pavement that was last improved in 2000. The design commenced in 2018 with construction proposed for 2019. This project improves approximately 6,000 feet of the runway from Taxiway E South to the Runway 4 threshold.

Project Funding: Proposed FAA Grant

Link: https://www2.monroecounty.gov/airport-plans.php

Also, word is that they’re going to be closing the runway between midnight and 5am every night to work on it. With several flights arriving after midnight I don’t quite have any idea how they plan to have this work.

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:26 pm
by ROCDLFAN
Supposedly it’s going to start at the end of RWY 4 and extend about 2,000 feet inward.

Also worth noting that the B2 jetbridge replacement is complete, and Delta has actually switched one of their primary gates from B1 to B7, leaving B1 as an overflow gate along with B4. The move was made not only for the gate space, but also because B7 is a swing jetbridge and they lost that feature with B1 with the terminal expansion last year.

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:27 pm
by WeatherPilot
ROCDLFAN wrote:
Also, word is that they’re going to be closing the runway between midnight and 5am every night to work on it. With several flights arriving after midnight I don’t quite have any idea how they plan to have this work.


That's kind of stupid. The construction crew will have to set everything up and tear it all down and check for FOD for just a few hours of work every night. Why not just close the runway for a couple weeks, use 10/28 in the meantime and get it all done in one run.

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:44 pm
by jworks158
United_fan wrote:
Well if 4/22 is closed,there is nowhere to spot. Guess i'll stay home. Hopefully it won't be too long.


There are still quite a few places! Mainly for 28 arrivals the gravel driveway behind the 7/11. Also if you have a lens that is long enough on top of the parking garage especially from the corners. Lastly through the fence at US Airports


On a another note it appears we are getting our first A300 since march today.

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:14 pm
by Kindredmsg
BUF will receive 1.4 mil from the government for some snow related improvements:
https://www.wivb.com/news/local-news/bu ... 2059991734

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:31 pm
by MO11
ROCDLFAN wrote:
Supposedly it’s going to start at the end of RWY 4 and extend about 2,000 feet inward.


Reminds me of the runway 4/22 extension in the 1960s, when American had to pull the 707s off the schedule, and replaced the BAC 1-11s to NY with Electras.

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:07 am
by jworks158
ROC SPOTTER ALERT: NASA T-38A N909NA as of 7pm this evening 6/7/19 it was located at the US Airports 700 ramp. I do not know how long it will be in ROC.

On arrival from Portsmouth, NH it flew over runway 04 at over 300kts and did a loop around before coming in for a landing. It was a sight to see :bouncy: :checkeredflag:

I was able to take some fantastic shots of its arrival, taxiing into the ramp and parking, and some static shots. I am in the process of editing them and they should be available tommorow.

FOR ALL UPSTATE NY AIRPORTS: I highly recommend checking out [url]Jettip.net[/url] if you enjoy plane spotting, it alerts you when there is a rare gem coming in like todays NASA bird, or a special livery, or a weather diversion. But mainly whenever there is an aircraft type/airline which hasn't been there in the last month.

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:44 pm
by jworks158
jworks158 wrote:
ROC SPOTTER ALERT: NASA T-38A N909NA as of 7pm this evening 6/7/19 it was located at the US Airports 700 ramp. I do not know how long it will be in ROC.

On arrival from Portsmouth, NH it flew over runway 04 at over 300kts and did a loop around before coming in for a landing. It was a sight to see :bouncy: :checkeredflag:

I was able to take some fantastic shots of its arrival, taxiing into the ramp and parking, and some static shots. I am in the process of editing them and they should be available tommorow.

FOR ALL UPSTATE NY AIRPORTS: I highly recommend checking out Jettip.net if you enjoy plane spotting, it alerts you when there is a rare gem coming in like todays NASA bird, or a special livery, or a weather diversion. But mainly whenever there is an aircraft type/airline which hasn't been there in the last month.


Photos: https://twitter.com/theOrangetechie/sta ... 1687946240

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:10 pm
by ROCDLFAN
Flew in on DL1111 last night and was pleasantly surprised to have caught a ride on one of the SkyTeam 737-800’s up to ROC. I couldn’t get a lot of good pictures- it was raining and we didn’t land in ROC until after 1am, but it should be a frequent visitor up here for the summer.

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:13 pm
by jworks158
ROCDLFAN wrote:
Flew in on DL1111 last night and was pleasantly surprised to have caught a ride on one of the SkyTeam 737-800’s up to ROC. I couldn’t get a lot of good pictures- it was raining and we didn’t land in ROC until after 1am, but it should be a frequent visitor up here for the summer.


I got quite a few good pictures early the next morning! Guess what according to jettip it will be back tonight!

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:40 pm
by jworks158
jworks158 wrote:
ROCDLFAN wrote:
Flew in on DL1111 last night and was pleasantly surprised to have caught a ride on one of the SkyTeam 737-800’s up to ROC. I couldn’t get a lot of good pictures- it was raining and we didn’t land in ROC until after 1am, but it should be a frequent visitor up here for the summer.


I got quite a few good pictures early the next morning! Guess what according to jettip it will be back tonight!



Out of the first 6 days of DL 738 service the skyteam livery will operate 3 days
Starting monday it appears the DL739 replaces the DL738.

I have received a tip from an insider which confirms that the "04-22 shutdown will be for 11 days right after the air show". Also "The south end of of 04/22 will be closing in early july roughly south of A1".

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:59 pm
by United_fan
jworks158 wrote:
United_fan wrote:
Well if 4/22 is closed,there is nowhere to spot. Guess i'll stay home. Hopefully it won't be too long.


There are still quite a few places! Mainly for 28 arrivals the gravel driveway behind the 7/11. Also if you have a lens that is long enough on top of the parking garage especially from the corners. Lastly through the fence at US Airports


On a another note it appears we are getting our first A300 since march today.


No visits from overzealous Sheriffs there ?

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:22 pm
by WingsFan
United_fan wrote:
jworks158 wrote:
United_fan wrote:
Well if 4/22 is closed,there is nowhere to spot. Guess i'll stay home. Hopefully it won't be too long.


There are still quite a few places! Mainly for 28 arrivals the gravel driveway behind the 7/11. Also if you have a lens that is long enough on top of the parking garage especially from the corners. Lastly through the fence at US Airports


On a another note it appears we are getting our first A300 since march today.


No visits from overzealous Sheriffs there ?


That's the thing that keeps me from spotting at ROC, I am just not familiar with how overzealous LEOs are at ROC.
At BUF I am mostly left alone but occasionally a 'concerned' citizen makes a call to NFTA and then I get ID checked and some vague not so direct questioning about immigration status.

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:19 pm
by jworks158
United_fan wrote:
jworks158 wrote:
United_fan wrote:
Well if 4/22 is closed,there is nowhere to spot. Guess i'll stay home. Hopefully it won't be too long.


There are still quite a few places! Mainly for 28 arrivals the gravel driveway behind the 7/11. Also if you have a lens that is long enough on top of the parking garage especially from the corners. Lastly through the fence at US Airports


On a another note it appears we are getting our first A300 since march today.


No visits from overzealous Sheriffs there ?


While I have at times had visits from the sheriffs department, overall I am nice and professional to them and they are the same back. They have also only ever bothered me at that one location, they typically drive right by, sometimes even wave.

When I was approached by a deputy two times ago, he recommended contacting the airport authority, I am not going to disclose what they said do to the email being confidential. However If you spot at ROC I would write a nice professional and diplomatic email to them and include pictures of where you like to spot.

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:41 pm
by United_fan
I have written permission to take pictures from US Airports. Knock on wood,I haven't been rolled up on in 5 years.

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:11 pm
by jworks158
United_fan wrote:
I have written permission to take pictures from US Airports. Knock on wood,I haven't been rolled up on in 5 years.


How did you manage that I was told there would be no blanket permits issued.

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:33 pm
by United_fan
jworks158 wrote:
United_fan wrote:
I have written permission to take pictures from US Airports. Knock on wood,I haven't been rolled up on in 5 years.


How did you manage that I was told there would be no blanket permits issued.


My irrefutable charm,i guess.

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:38 pm
by ROCDLFAN
Tonight is the first evening that Delta will be bringing scheduled 737-900 service to ROC. From what I see, it will operate in as DL1111 Mon-Thurs nights for the next 3 weeks, then operate back out as DL2129 the following mornings.

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:04 pm
by jworks158
ROC Spotter Alert: N37267 United's New Livery is scheduled to make it's first appearance at ROC arriving as flight 2004 today!

If only the weather wasn't so dump.

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:05 pm
by WeatherPilot
According to Enilria's Sunday post it looks like B6 is doing away with SYR-MCO starting in November and giving the plane to BUF to do double daily BUF-MCO.

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:58 pm
by SyracuseAvGeek
WeatherPilot wrote:
According to Enilria's Sunday post it looks like B6 is doing away with SYR-MCO starting in November and giving the plane to BUF to do double daily BUF-MCO.


If you look closer at the post, you’ll see that the route comes back in January.

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:10 pm
by WeatherPilot
SyracuseAvGeek wrote:
WeatherPilot wrote:
According to Enilria's Sunday post it looks like B6 is doing away with SYR-MCO starting in November and giving the plane to BUF to do double daily BUF-MCO.


If you look closer at the post, you’ll see that the route comes back in January.


If you look at the flight times the extra BUF-MCO flight is basically the SYR-MCO flight just now flying to BUF instead. I think B6 is going to try and push everyone in SYR through either BOS or JFK and they moved this MCO flight to BUF to test it out. They already got rid of SYR-FLL. I don't think MCO is actually going to come back. Yes, it's listed as coming back but I think B6 is going to add another BOS or JFK frequency to SYR instead.

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:35 pm
by SyracuseAvGeek
WeatherPilot wrote:
SyracuseAvGeek wrote:
WeatherPilot wrote:
According to Enilria's Sunday post it looks like B6 is doing away with SYR-MCO starting in November and giving the plane to BUF to do double daily BUF-MCO.


If you look closer at the post, you’ll see that the route comes back in January.


If you look at the flight times the extra BUF-MCO flight is basically the SYR-MCO flight just now flying to BUF instead. I think B6 is going to try and push everyone in SYR through either BOS or JFK and they moved this MCO flight to BUF to test it out. They already got rid of SYR-FLL. I don't think MCO is actually going to come back. Yes, it's listed as coming back but I think B6 is going to add another BOS or JFK frequency to SYR instead.



That would be unfortunate, a lot of people (including myself) would rather fly thru MCO than have to deal with JFk and BOS traffic, especially when weather hits that part of the country. I’ve used FLL as a connection and it was so much easier than JFK (which happened to be cancelled the day I was flying)

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:51 pm
by jworks158
I have heard from a reliable source that tonight Runway 04/22 closes south of taxiway Alpha 1.

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:36 pm
by Buffalomatt1027
WeatherPilot wrote:
According to Enilria's Sunday post it looks like B6 is doing away with SYR-MCO starting in November and giving the plane to BUF to do double daily BUF-MCO.


The demand for BUF - MCO must be insane with F9 321 and B6 during winter. ...... thank you canadian passengers

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:16 pm
by WeatherPilot
Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
WeatherPilot wrote:
According to Enilria's Sunday post it looks like B6 is doing away with SYR-MCO starting in November and giving the plane to BUF to do double daily BUF-MCO.


The demand for BUF - MCO must be insane with F9 321 and B6 during winter. ...... thank you canadian passengers


You've got WN doing BUF-MCO as well don't you? Plus there's G4 up at the Falls airport.

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:27 am
by Buffalomatt1027
WeatherPilot wrote:
Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
WeatherPilot wrote:
According to Enilria's Sunday post it looks like B6 is doing away with SYR-MCO starting in November and giving the plane to BUF to do double daily BUF-MCO.


The demand for BUF - MCO must be insane with F9 321 and B6 during winter. ...... thank you canadian passengers


You've got WN doing BUF-MCO as well don't you? Plus there's G4 up at the Falls airport.


Yes, WN too. BNIA needs to advertise in Canada to keep them coming!

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:43 am
by tphuang
2019 Q1 totals for BOS to upstate new york, also including MDT for reference
CityPair Dist Carrier Board AvgFare NSFare ConnFare % NS SeatPerFlight Flights LF Yield PRASM Vs B6
BOSBUF 395 B6 37337 99.64 99.06 174.72 99.23% 100.4 559 66.53% 65.90 0.1668 100.00%
BOSBUF 395 DL 16058 97.17 94.80 148.58 95.59% 75.2 396 53.92% 51.12 0.1294 77.56%
BOSSYR 265 AA 4928 130.32 119.95 184.30 83.89% 50.0 122 80.79% 96.91 0.3657 185.99%
BOSSYR 265 B6 11126 81.49 79.14 140.63 96.17% 100.0 169 65.83% 52.10 0.1966 100.00%
BOSROC 343 AA 16707 109.86 103.60 188.78 92.65% 50.1 403 82.81% 85.79 0.2501 125.63%
BOSROC 343 B6 12966 84.07 82.16 192.95 98.28% 100.0 156 83.12% 68.29 0.1991 100.00%
BOSMDT 335 AA 4022 260.17 248.19 292.10 72.71% 50.0 138 58.29% 144.67 0.4318 N/A

Keep in mind, AA's numbers on BOS-PIT when it quit that route was better than what it's getting now on ROC/SYR. I don't think they are going to stick around that much longer. ROC and MDT yield used to be about the same before B6 entered. Interesting that SYR does so much worse than ROC for B6. I think it has to be due to the timing of the route. All around very low yields in a low yielding quarter. That BUF DL number is really bad for a regional flight. Easily the worst in their entire network out of BOS.

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:47 am
by WeatherPilot
tphuang wrote:
2019 Q1 totals for BOS to upstate new york, also including MDT for reference
CityPair Dist Carrier Board AvgFare NSFare ConnFare % NS SeatPerFlight Flights LF Yield PRASM Vs B6
BOSBUF 395 B6 37337 99.64 99.06 174.72 99.23% 100.4 559 66.53% 65.90 0.1668 100.00%
BOSBUF 395 DL 16058 97.17 94.80 148.58 95.59% 75.2 396 53.92% 51.12 0.1294 77.56%
BOSSYR 265 AA 4928 130.32 119.95 184.30 83.89% 50.0 122 80.79% 96.91 0.3657 185.99%
BOSSYR 265 B6 11126 81.49 79.14 140.63 96.17% 100.0 169 65.83% 52.10 0.1966 100.00%
BOSROC 343 AA 16707 109.86 103.60 188.78 92.65% 50.1 403 82.81% 85.79 0.2501 125.63%
BOSROC 343 B6 12966 84.07 82.16 192.95 98.28% 100.0 156 83.12% 68.29 0.1991 100.00%
BOSMDT 335 AA 4022 260.17 248.19 292.10 72.71% 50.0 138 58.29% 144.67 0.4318 N/A

Keep in mind, AA's numbers on BOS-PIT when it quit that route was better than what it's getting now on ROC/SYR. I don't think they are going to stick around that much longer. ROC and MDT yield used to be about the same before B6 entered. Interesting that SYR does so much worse than ROC for B6. I think it has to be due to the timing of the route. All around very low yields in a low yielding quarter. That BUF DL number is really bad for a regional flight. Easily the worst in their entire network out of BOS.


These flights probably only stay now because of politics. AA and DL can take a hit on these little routes because their more profitable routes can subsidize them. I’m not too sure B6 is large enough of an airline yet to have that luxury.

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:45 am
by ROCDLFAN
tphuang wrote:
2019 Q1 totals for BOS to upstate new york, also including MDT for reference
CityPair Dist Carrier Board AvgFare NSFare ConnFare % NS SeatPerFlight Flights LF Yield PRASM Vs B6
BOSBUF 395 B6 37337 99.64 99.06 174.72 99.23% 100.4 559 66.53% 65.90 0.1668 100.00%
BOSBUF 395 DL 16058 97.17 94.80 148.58 95.59% 75.2 396 53.92% 51.12 0.1294 77.56%
BOSSYR 265 AA 4928 130.32 119.95 184.30 83.89% 50.0 122 80.79% 96.91 0.3657 185.99%
BOSSYR 265 B6 11126 81.49 79.14 140.63 96.17% 100.0 169 65.83% 52.10 0.1966 100.00%
BOSROC 343 AA 16707 109.86 103.60 188.78 92.65% 50.1 403 82.81% 85.79 0.2501 125.63%
BOSROC 343 B6 12966 84.07 82.16 192.95 98.28% 100.0 156 83.12% 68.29 0.1991 100.00%
BOSMDT 335 AA 4022 260.17 248.19 292.10 72.71% 50.0 138 58.29% 144.67 0.4318 N/A

Keep in mind, AA's numbers on BOS-PIT when it quit that route was better than what it's getting now on ROC/SYR. I don't think they are going to stick around that much longer. ROC and MDT yield used to be about the same before B6 entered. Interesting that SYR does so much worse than ROC for B6. I think it has to be due to the timing of the route. All around very low yields in a low yielding quarter. That BUF DL number is really bad for a regional flight. Easily the worst in their entire network out of BOS.


When AA finally folds on SYR/ROC-BOS, a couple things could happen.

As far as SYR goes, I don’t think much of anything would happen. The times for the B6 flight to BOS and the fact that it has stayed the same since it’s inception and can’t possibly be making money show they’re only running it for A, politics, and B, aircraft utilization (prevents them from having an E190 sit in BOS when at least this way it has the chance to make money.) If they really are ending FLL and MCO completely (FLL doesn’t surprise me, but that MCO flight has been a legacy route for that station) then SYR May have to have a separate conversation. I don’t know if we’d see DL jump on SYR, it doesn’t really appear to be that big of a market. Also, as far as MCO goes, could the F9 addition have potentially caused the route to become over-saturated and simply unsustainable?

For ROC, I definitely see them adding a second daily. Now, if that would come with the cost of a JFK flight or not, that would have to be seen. A lot of people predicted that after BOS started B6 would simply go down to 2X daily on JFK and it would be some what of an “even exchange” like they’ve done for SYR, but that never happened. Personally, the fact that AA is still running 3X daily BOS from ROC and B6 loads have been surprisingly consistently strong so far, I think a second flight could be added without anything else having to be cut in exchange. I think DL entering the market would be a surprise. Not impossible, but based on how BUF has performed, like everyone else has stated, it’s not worth the competition to lose that much on an insignificant addition.

What I want to know, is if anyone has the data for DL/B6 on BUF/ROC/SYR-JFK? I’m curious to know how profitable these routes appear to be and how they’re performing, specifically for B6 out of ROC/SYR.

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:28 am
by tphuang
ROCDLFAN wrote:
tphuang wrote:
2019 Q1 totals for BOS to upstate new york, also including MDT for reference
CityPair Dist Carrier Board AvgFare NSFare ConnFare % NS SeatPerFlight Flights LF Yield PRASM Vs B6
BOSBUF 395 B6 37337 99.64 99.06 174.72 99.23% 100.4 559 66.53% 65.90 0.1668 100.00%
BOSBUF 395 DL 16058 97.17 94.80 148.58 95.59% 75.2 396 53.92% 51.12 0.1294 77.56%
BOSSYR 265 AA 4928 130.32 119.95 184.30 83.89% 50.0 122 80.79% 96.91 0.3657 185.99%
BOSSYR 265 B6 11126 81.49 79.14 140.63 96.17% 100.0 169 65.83% 52.10 0.1966 100.00%
BOSROC 343 AA 16707 109.86 103.60 188.78 92.65% 50.1 403 82.81% 85.79 0.2501 125.63%
BOSROC 343 B6 12966 84.07 82.16 192.95 98.28% 100.0 156 83.12% 68.29 0.1991 100.00%
BOSMDT 335 AA 4022 260.17 248.19 292.10 72.71% 50.0 138 58.29% 144.67 0.4318 N/A

Keep in mind, AA's numbers on BOS-PIT when it quit that route was better than what it's getting now on ROC/SYR. I don't think they are going to stick around that much longer. ROC and MDT yield used to be about the same before B6 entered. Interesting that SYR does so much worse than ROC for B6. I think it has to be due to the timing of the route. All around very low yields in a low yielding quarter. That BUF DL number is really bad for a regional flight. Easily the worst in their entire network out of BOS.


When AA finally folds on SYR/ROC-BOS, a couple things could happen.

As far as SYR goes, I don’t think much of anything would happen. The times for the B6 flight to BOS and the fact that it has stayed the same since it’s inception and can’t possibly be making money show they’re only running it for A, politics, and B, aircraft utilization (prevents them from having an E190 sit in BOS when at least this way it has the chance to make money.) If they really are ending FLL and MCO completely (FLL doesn’t surprise me, but that MCO flight has been a legacy route for that station) then SYR May have to have a separate conversation. I don’t know if we’d see DL jump on SYR, it doesn’t really appear to be that big of a market. Also, as far as MCO goes, could the F9 addition have potentially caused the route to become over-saturated and simply unsustainable?

For ROC, I definitely see them adding a second daily. Now, if that would come with the cost of a JFK flight or not, that would have to be seen. A lot of people predicted that after BOS started B6 would simply go down to 2X daily on JFK and it would be some what of an “even exchange” like they’ve done for SYR, but that never happened. Personally, the fact that AA is still running 3X daily BOS from ROC and B6 loads have been surprisingly consistently strong so far, I think a second flight could be added without anything else having to be cut in exchange. I think DL entering the market would be a surprise. Not impossible, but based on how BUF has performed, like everyone else has stated, it’s not worth the competition to lose that much on an insignificant addition.

What I want to know, is if anyone has the data for DL/B6 on BUF/ROC/SYR-JFK? I’m curious to know how profitable these routes appear to be and how they’re performing, specifically for B6 out of ROC/SYR.

Generally speaking, the numbers are a lot higher out of JFK for b6. They make money. They are higher for delta also, but I think that is filled with a lot of connections. The Boston routes have too much capacity right now. If aa drops roc, I think b6 will go to 2 daily.

I think Syracuse may get retimed in the future if they want to route more connections through Boston.

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:49 pm
by Buffalomatt1027
tphuang wrote:
2019 Q1 totals for BOS to upstate new york, also including MDT for reference
CityPair Dist Carrier Board AvgFare NSFare ConnFare % NS SeatPerFlight Flights LF Yield PRASM Vs B6
BOSBUF 395 B6 37337 99.64 99.06 174.72 99.23% 100.4 559 66.53% 65.90 0.1668 100.00%
BOSBUF 395 DL 16058 97.17 94.80 148.58 95.59% 75.2 396 53.92% 51.12 0.1294 77.56%
BOSSYR 265 AA 4928 130.32 119.95 184.30 83.89% 50.0 122 80.79% 96.91 0.3657 185.99%
BOSSYR 265 B6 11126 81.49 79.14 140.63 96.17% 100.0 169 65.83% 52.10 0.1966 100.00%
BOSROC 343 AA 16707 109.86 103.60 188.78 92.65% 50.1 403 82.81% 85.79 0.2501 125.63%
BOSROC 343 B6 12966 84.07 82.16 192.95 98.28% 100.0 156 83.12% 68.29 0.1991 100.00%
BOSMDT 335 AA 4022 260.17 248.19 292.10 72.71% 50.0 138 58.29% 144.67 0.4318 N/A

Keep in mind, AA's numbers on BOS-PIT when it quit that route was better than what it's getting now on ROC/SYR. I don't think they are going to stick around that much longer. ROC and MDT yield used to be about the same before B6 entered. Interesting that SYR does so much worse than ROC for B6. I think it has to be due to the timing of the route. All around very low yields in a low yielding quarter. That BUF DL number is really bad for a regional flight. Easily the worst in their entire network out of BOS.


DL is most likely trying to compete with B6 with BUF - BOS. Also BOS is now a DL hub .... they need to filter people through. DL does that with other b6 flights too.

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:40 pm
by timh4000
Anyone know what the F- is going on with AA and ALB today. I was delayed multiple times, rerouted from reagan to phl. Then it it got too late to go to Norfolk so I had to rebook the whole damn thing for tomorrow, and there were other AA delays as well

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 2:04 am
by Roots1
Here's a quick summary of frequencies and aircraft types from the network carriers at ROC during the runway 4/22 closure in late August/early September. I just chose August 27 so these may vary day to day.

Delta definitely made the most adjustments, adding a mainline frequency to JFK, an extra mainline to DTW (though reduced frequency by one), and completely pulled all CRJ900 flying.

Delta:
ATL -- 3x 717
DTW -- 2x A319; 1x CRJ200
JFK -- 1x 717; 2x EMB170
LGA -- 1x CRJ200; 1x EMB170; 2x EMB175
MSP -- 1x A319

United:
EWR -- 4x ERJ-145
IAD -- 3x CRJ700
ORD -- 3x A319; 1x 737-800

American:
BOS -- 3x ERJ-145
CLT -- 4x CRJ900
DCA -- 2x CRJ200; 1x ERJ-145
ORD -- 4x CRJ700
PHL -- 4x ERJ-145; 1x EMB175

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:15 am
by WeatherPilot
Roots1 wrote:
Here's a quick summary of frequencies and aircraft types from the network carriers at ROC during the runway 4/22 closure in late August/early September. I just chose August 27 so these may vary day to day.

Delta definitely made the most adjustments, adding a mainline frequency to JFK, an extra mainline to DTW (though reduced frequency by one), and completely pulled all CRJ900 flying.

Delta:
ATL -- 3x 717
DTW -- 2x A319; 1x CRJ200
JFK -- 1x 717; 2x EMB170
LGA -- 1x CRJ200; 1x EMB170; 2x EMB175
MSP -- 1x A319

United:
EWR -- 4x ERJ-145
IAD -- 3x CRJ700
ORD -- 3x A319; 1x 737-800

American:
BOS -- 3x ERJ-145
CLT -- 4x CRJ900
DCA -- 2x CRJ200; 1x ERJ-145
ORD -- 4x CRJ700
PHL -- 4x ERJ-145; 1x EMB175


I didn't know DL flew the 717 into JFK still.

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:40 pm
by SyracuseAvGeek
Look like the SYR-MCO is back on the schedule for January...
B6 MCO-SYR JAN 0.7>1.0[1.0]

Appears that it’s only being cut for November and December.

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:58 pm
by WeatherPilot
SyracuseAvGeek wrote:
Look like the SYR-MCO is back on the schedule for January...
B6 MCO-SYR JAN 0.7>1.0[1.0]

Appears that it’s only being cut for November and December.


If you search their booking engine November and December are also back to normal. I mentioned the return of the route in Enilria's weekly post as well. So it's back like nothing ever happened. whatever. I did notice that BUF-MCO remains double daily still, which is where I thought B6 was shifting the plane for SYR-MCO to so they could achieve that. I guess B6 found an extra plane somewhere to make everyone happy. Now here's hoping they return SYR-FLL.

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:31 pm
by SyracuseAvGeek
WeatherPilot wrote:
SyracuseAvGeek wrote:
Look like the SYR-MCO is back on the schedule for January...
B6 MCO-SYR JAN 0.7>1.0[1.0]

Appears that it’s only being cut for November and December.


If you search their booking engine November and December are also back to normal. I mentioned the return of the route in Enilria's weekly post as well. So it's back like nothing ever happened. whatever. I did notice that BUF-MCO remains double daily still, which is where I thought B6 was shifting the plane for SYR-MCO to so they could achieve that. I guess B6 found an extra plane somewhere to make everyone happy. Now here's hoping they return SYR-FLL.


Yeah, hopefully the SYR-FLL route returns. If not this will be the second time B6 has started and stoped the route, maybe when they receive the A220 they’ll be more willing to serve it again (if it doesn’t return)

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:43 pm
by SyracuseAvGeek
I’ve noticed that JetBlue’s SYR-BOS departure is slowly creeping earlier and earlier. I used it last March and it was a 5:45am departure,
currently (July 7th) it's a 5:20am departure,
September 4th it becomes a 5:10am flight,
October 27th it becomes a 5:05am flight and it stays that way at least until January (which is the furthest out you can book right now)

Why do they keep pushing it earlier and earlier?

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:38 pm
by WeatherPilot
SyracuseAvGeek wrote:
I’ve noticed that JetBlue’s SYR-BOS departure is slowly creeping earlier and earlier. I used it last March and it was a 5:45am departure,
currently (July 7th) it's a 5:20am departure,
September 4th it becomes a 5:10am flight,
October 27th it becomes a 5:05am flight and it stays that way at least until January (which is the furthest out you can book right now)

Why do they keep pushing it earlier and earlier?


Because it's cheaper to park the plane in SYR than in BOS and the schedule is reworked to benefit BOS not SYR.

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:39 am
by Buffalomatt1027
https://www.buffalorising.com/2019/03/p ... july-2019/

LOT is interested in international flights out of bnia

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:58 am
by jworks158
I noticed today that AA has switched around it's ROC-PHL schedule. With Republic operating x2 E175, PSA operating a CRJ 200 & CRJ 700, and Piedmont operating x2 E145's. They need the E145's because they operate the BOS flights.

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:00 am
by SyracuseAvGeek
Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
https://www.buffalorising.com/2019/03/polish-summit-in-buffalo-july-2019/

LOT is interested in international flights out of bnia


I find that very interesting, but not totally out of the question. Would their 737Max have the range to do the flight (once they are flying again) or would a larger aircraft be necessary?

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:06 am
by cosyr
SyracuseAvGeek wrote:
Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
https://www.buffalorising.com/2019/03/polish-summit-in-buffalo-july-2019/

LOT is interested in international flights out of bnia


I find that very interesting, but not totally out of the question. Would their 737Max have the range to do the flight (once they are flying again) or would a larger aircraft be necessary?

CO/UA had some trouble with a 752 on EWR-TXL, which is 400 miles shorter. It could do it, but fuel stops were common in the winter.