Upstate New York Thread - 2019

Buffalomatt1027 · Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:59 pm

maximairways wrote:
What's interesting to me about the newly opened The Club at BUF, they built it rather large and with showers. Having a good lounge is key to transatlantic service. So this may be preempting a potential service.

BDL for example opened the Escape Lounge around the time Aer Lingus began service. Though its not very big, and doesn't have showers.

Unfortunately, I do not see transatlantic service coming here anytime soon. Thomas Cook, WOW, and a couple other discount airlines seem to be struggling big time and falling into bankruptcy. Norwegian might be next. Those airlines seemed to be the type of airline that BUF would be targeting.

We know legacy carriers like Delta, Americans, United would drop dead before they would have any kind of Transatlantic service out of BNIA.

Maybe Jetblue but that seems like a stretch.

I definitely agree with you though, the way the club was designed, it was built for that type of service.

jworks158 · Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:45 pm

Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
maximairways wrote:
What's interesting to me about the newly opened The Club at BUF, they built it rather large and with showers. Having a good lounge is key to transatlantic service. So this may be preempting a potential service.

BDL for example opened the Escape Lounge around the time Aer Lingus began service. Though its not very big, and doesn't have showers.

Unfortunately, I do not see transatlantic service coming here anytime soon. Thomas Cook, WOW, and a couple other discount airlines seem to be struggling big time and falling into bankruptcy. Norwegian might be next. Those airlines seemed to be the type of airline that BUF would be targeting.

We know legacy carriers like Delta, Americans, United would drop dead before they would have any kind of Transatlantic service out of BNIA.

Maybe Jetblue but that seems like a stretch.

I definitely agree with you though, the way the club was designed, it was built for that type of service.

Is an Aer Lingus A321LR, or Icelandair 737MAX8 really that far of a stretch?

Buffalomatt1027 · Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:09 pm

jworks158 wrote:
Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
maximairways wrote:
What's interesting to me about the newly opened The Club at BUF, they built it rather large and with showers. Having a good lounge is key to transatlantic service. So this may be preempting a potential service.

BDL for example opened the Escape Lounge around the time Aer Lingus began service. Though its not very big, and doesn't have showers.

Unfortunately, I do not see transatlantic service coming here anytime soon. Thomas Cook, WOW, and a couple other discount airlines seem to be struggling big time and falling into bankruptcy. Norwegian might be next. Those airlines seemed to be the type of airline that BUF would be targeting.

We know legacy carriers like Delta, Americans, United would drop dead before they would have any kind of Transatlantic service out of BNIA.

Maybe Jetblue but that seems like a stretch.

I definitely agree with you though, the way the club was designed, it was built for that type of service.

Is an Aer Lingus A321LR, or Icelandair 737MAX8 really that far of a stretch?

Aer Lingus only flights to major US airports besides hartford. Maybe an outside chance?

Icelandair - I know they had major cutbacks to the US due to the MAX. I wonder what will happened when the MAX comes back But again, they only show Major airports they fly out of.

I think those planes can make a direct flight though.

And this might be one of the dumbest things I will say- I think BUF / NFTA should go after an Asian and Indian air carrier. Go to Niagara falls and see the visitors that come.

SyracuseAvGeek · Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:53 pm

Amazon might be opening a distribution center in Upstate NY (near Syracuse or Albany, hasn’t been decided yet). Anyone think this could open up the possibility of new nonstop routes to the region?

cosyr · Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:03 pm

SyracuseAvGeek wrote:
Amazon might be opening a distribution center in Upstate NY (near Syracuse or Albany, hasn’t been decided yet). Anyone think this could open up the possibility of new nonstop routes to the region?

We might start seeing Prime Air in addition to FedEx and UPS.

aeroc · Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:21 pm

Anyone know why AA was flying a 737-800 from ROC to MSY today? Plane had ferry flight number from ORD.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL ... /KORD/KROC

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL ... /KROC/KMSY

CallmeJB · Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:08 pm

aeroc wrote:
Anyone know why AA was flying a 737-800 from ROC to MSY today? Plane had ferry flight number from ORD.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL ... /KORD/KROC

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL ... /KROC/KMSY

A veteran's flight to the WWII museum in MSY:

https://www.garysinisefoundation.org/ev ... he-public/

aeroc · Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:08 am

CallmeJB wrote:
aeroc wrote:
Anyone know why AA was flying a 737-800 from ROC to MSY today? Plane had ferry flight number from ORD.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL ... /KORD/KROC

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL ... /KROC/KMSY

A veteran's flight to the WWII museum in MSY:

https://www.garysinisefoundation.org/ev ... he-public/

This is wonderful to hear! I love seeing this. Thank you for the information.

WeatherPilot · Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:39 pm

According to a new study Syracuse Airport had the second largest decrease in average airfare costs in the country. Average airfare fell 11.1% compared to a year ago. The only other airport with a larger decrease was Long Island MacAthur where average airfare fell 18.2% over the past year. The airport with the largest increase in average airfare over the past year was Chicago-Midway at 6.6%.

Great news for SYR!!

teneriffe77 · Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:52 pm

Speaking of SYR I noticed a Metro on the ground at SYR that seems to be operating long flights involving flying back and forth cross northern NY and I can't figure out who really owns it?

WeatherPilot · Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:02 pm

teneriffe77 wrote:
Speaking of SYR I noticed a Metro on the ground at SYR that seems to be operating long flights involving flying back and forth cross northern NY and I can't figure out who really owns it?

It’s probably Wiggins Airways doing cargo runs between SYR and PBG. They usually use an EMB110 but maybe they had to borrow a Metroliner from their parent company Ameriflight.

Buffalomatt1027 · Sun Oct 13, 2019 1:12 am

SyracuseAvGeek wrote:
Amazon might be opening a distribution center in Upstate NY (near Syracuse or Albany, hasn’t been decided yet). Anyone think this could open up the possibility of new nonstop routes to the region?

The Buffalo area has an Amazon distribution center and we did not get any additional nonstops or anything even close. Prime does not fly here either.

Dalmd88 · Sun Oct 13, 2019 1:36 am

Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
SyracuseAvGeek wrote:
Amazon might be opening a distribution center in Upstate NY (near Syracuse or Albany, hasn’t been decided yet). Anyone think this could open up the possibility of new nonstop routes to the region?

The Buffalo area has an Amazon distribution center and we did not get any additional nonstops or anything even close. Prime does not fly here either.

The one proposed for Syracuse is massive.
https://www.syracuse.com/business/2019/ ... mazon.html

WeatherPilot · Sun Oct 13, 2019 1:37 am

Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
SyracuseAvGeek wrote:
Amazon might be opening a distribution center in Upstate NY (near Syracuse or Albany, hasn’t been decided yet). Anyone think this could open up the possibility of new nonstop routes to the region?

The Buffalo area has an Amazon distribution center and we did not get any additional nonstops or anything even close. Prime does not fly here either.

Except the one proposed for Syracuse would be the second largest warehouse in the world.

teneriffe77 · Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:09 am

If you look at flight aware the path that plane has been flying is a lot of back and forth over a long period of time so there's no way that plane is doing normal cargo flights

WeatherPilot · Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:34 am

teneriffe77 wrote:
If you look at flight aware the path that plane has been flying is a lot of back and forth over a long period of time so there's no way that plane is doing normal cargo flights

Oh, it’s doing new ‘satellite’ imagery for the area then. A lot of Google Maps, Bing Maps, Apple Maps and other private or government mapping programs actually use imagery from planes not satellites.

Buffalomatt1027 · Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:49 pm

Dalmd88 wrote:
Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
SyracuseAvGeek wrote:
Amazon might be opening a distribution center in Upstate NY (near Syracuse or Albany, hasn’t been decided yet). Anyone think this could open up the possibility of new nonstop routes to the region?

The Buffalo area has an Amazon distribution center and we did not get any additional nonstops or anything even close. Prime does not fly here either.

The one proposed for Syracuse is massive.
https://www.syracuse.com/business/2019/ ... mazon.html

Okay, did not know that. That is really cool.

ROCDLFAN · Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:27 pm

With this weeks OAG thread, it looks like AA metal is finally returning to ROC. Starting in January 2X A319 on CLT and 1X CR9. Despite the cut to 3X daily from 4X daily, that’s actually still a capacity increase of about 30 seats, and more importantly, it just makes so much more sense.

WeatherPilot · Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:27 pm

United is going to be offering its’ new CRJ550 on SYR-EWR in March.

https://www.localsyr.com/news/local-new ... n-new-jet/

SyracuseAvGeek · Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:38 pm

WeatherPilot wrote:
United is going to be offering its’ new CRJ550 on SYR-EWR in March.

https://www.localsyr.com/news/local-new ... n-new-jet/

I don’t know where they are getting their information, airlineroute shows CRJ550 service into SYR from ORD starting mid-December.

Buffalomatt1027 · Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:51 am

WeatherPilot wrote:
Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
SyracuseAvGeek wrote:
Amazon might be opening a distribution center in Upstate NY (near Syracuse or Albany, hasn’t been decided yet). Anyone think this could open up the possibility of new nonstop routes to the region?

The Buffalo area has an Amazon distribution center and we did not get any additional nonstops or anything even close. Prime does not fly here either.

Except the one proposed for Syracuse would be the second largest warehouse in the world.

Amazon just bought 184.5 acres for a distribution center on top of another center they already have here ....... i guess Syracuse and Buffalo will see if they get nonstops out of it or prime cargo.

Buffalomatt1027 · Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:55 pm

The Buffalo Sabres crossed the pond to stockholm last night on a A321 NEO. So definitely very doable for BNIA if it ever received transatlantic service.

WeatherPilot · Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:16 am

Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
WeatherPilot wrote:
Buffalomatt1027 wrote:

The Buffalo area has an Amazon distribution center and we did not get any additional nonstops or anything even close. Prime does not fly here either.

Except the one proposed for Syracuse would be the second largest warehouse in the world.

Amazon just bought 184.5 acres for a distribution center on top of another center they already have here ....... i guess Syracuse and Buffalo will see if they get nonstops out of it or prime cargo.

I’ve heard rumors about DL starting BOS-SYR soon and has also been tossing around the idea of doing SEA to one or more airports upstate.

BatonOps · Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:19 am

Construction is really moving along at ITH...

https://flyithaca.com/construction-updates/

Dominion301 · Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:31 am

Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
jworks158 wrote:
Buffalomatt1027 wrote:

Unfortunately, I do not see transatlantic service coming here anytime soon. Thomas Cook, WOW, and a couple other discount airlines seem to be struggling big time and falling into bankruptcy. Norwegian might be next. Those airlines seemed to be the type of airline that BUF would be targeting.

We know legacy carriers like Delta, Americans, United would drop dead before they would have any kind of Transatlantic service out of BNIA.

Maybe Jetblue but that seems like a stretch.

I definitely agree with you though, the way the club was designed, it was built for that type of service.

Is an Aer Lingus A321LR, or Icelandair 737MAX8 really that far of a stretch?

Aer Lingus only flights to major US airports besides hartford. Maybe an outside chance?

Icelandair - I know they had major cutbacks to the US due to the MAX. I wonder what will happened when the MAX comes back But again, they only show Major airports they fly out of.

I think those planes can make a direct flight though.

And this might be one of the dumbest things I will say- I think BUF / NFTA should go after an Asian and Indian air carrier. Go to Niagara falls and see the visitors that come.

Not dumb if you’re talking about cargo. However, for passenger service, not a chance with the behemoth that is YYZ just up the road. Not to mention the fact that the overwhelming majority of visitors to the falls do so from the Canadian side.

SyracuseAvGeek · Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:42 am

WeatherPilot wrote:
Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
WeatherPilot wrote:

Except the one proposed for Syracuse would be the second largest warehouse in the world.

Amazon just bought 184.5 acres for a distribution center on top of another center they already have here ....... i guess Syracuse and Buffalo will see if they get nonstops out of it or prime cargo.

I’ve heard rumors about DL starting BOS-SYR soon and has also been tossing around the idea of doing SEA to one or more airports upstate.

That would be great, if DL started BOS-SYR then that would be the end of AA regional routes out of BOS. No point in keeping the base for just ROC and MDT

I’d be surprised if they started SEA to any airport in upstate, although with the largest amazon distribution center being built 30mi north of SYR I could see it there more than anywhere else.

Would love to see SLC-upstate NY on the A220, they’ve done SYR-SLC nonstop a couple of times as one-offs

Where did you get the rumors?

Buffalomatt1027 · Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:33 am

SyracuseAvGeek wrote:
WeatherPilot wrote:
Buffalomatt1027 wrote:

Amazon just bought 184.5 acres for a distribution center on top of another center they already have here ....... i guess Syracuse and Buffalo will see if they get nonstops out of it or prime cargo.

I’ve heard rumors about DL starting BOS-SYR soon and has also been tossing around the idea of doing SEA to one or more airports upstate.

That would be great, if DL started BOS-SYR then that would be the end of AA regional routes out of BOS. No point in keeping the base for just ROC and MDT

I’d be surprised if they started SEA to any airport in upstate, although with the largest amazon distribution center being built 30mi north of SYR I could see it there more than anywhere else.

Would love to see SLC-upstate NY on the A220, they’ve done SYR-SLC nonstop a couple of times as one-offs

Where did you get the rumors?

Amazon is investing a lot of money in SYR and BUF. Direct flights to Seattle might definitely be in the future.

tphuang · Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:48 am

As I said before, DL would have to really love losing money to start Boston Syracuse. You have to really see some of these yields to believe it.

Buffalomatt1027 · Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:48 am

tphuang wrote:
As I said before, DL would have to really love losing money to start Boston Syracuse. You have to really see some of these yields to believe it.

The BUF - BOS route yields are brutal for both jetblue and DL. Both keep those routes alive to to feeding their hubs.

jworks158 · Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:26 pm

From the OAG thread:

**UA ELM-IAD JAN 2>0.3[0] FEB 2>0[0] MAR 2>0[0.1] APR 2>0[2] MAY 2>0[2] JUN 2>0[2] JUL 2>0[2] AUG 2>0[2]

Looks like UA is ending ELM-IAD service

jplatts · Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:01 pm

Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
Amazon is investing a lot of money in SYR and BUF. Direct flights to Seattle might definitely be in the future.

AS adding BUF-SEA nonstop service is also a possibility with (a) AS recently adding CMH-SEA and PIT-SEA nonstop service and (b) AS already serving most of the U.S. airports that currently have nonstop service out of SEA.

cosyr · Mon Nov 18, 2019 1:10 pm

jworks158 wrote:
From the OAG thread:

**UA ELM-IAD JAN 2>0.3[0] FEB 2>0[0] MAR 2>0[0.1] APR 2>0[2] MAY 2>0[2] JUN 2>0[2] JUL 2>0[2] AUG 2>0[2]

Looks like UA is ending ELM-IAD service

I'm not surprised. I wonder if they would consider restarting Binghamton instead. Similar market, but catch more of I81 traffic and eastern So Tier.

teneriffe77 · Sat Nov 23, 2019 3:52 am

There's a a DL 752 at SYR right now. It diverted here after developing an engine oil issue enroute BOS-LAX (https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL ... /KBOS/KSYR) (https://www.localsyr.com/news/local-new ... k-airport/). According to flightware DL is sending a replacement plane here soon from JFK

ROCDLFAN · Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:32 am

teneriffe77 wrote:
There's a a DL 752 at SYR right now. It diverted here after developing an engine oil issue enroute BOS-LAX (https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL ... /KBOS/KSYR) (https://www.localsyr.com/news/local-new ... k-airport/). According to flightware DL is sending a replacement plane here soon from JFK

Well, there’s the non stop SYR-BOS on DL everyone wanted.

teneriffe77 · Sun Nov 24, 2019 2:17 am

I noticed last night at SYR that as a result of that DL 752 mess some other DL flights like the MD-90 from ATL were being held on the taxiway (BTW it finally left for LA around 2:30am). Also AA sent an A319 from ORD and E-175 which both overnighted and I was surprised that the 319 was being used out of ORD as I thought those weren't operated out of ORD by AA.

Buffalomatt1027 · Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:34 pm

https://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/new ... ml?ana=maz

NFTA said their is demand for direct flights to Paris, Dublin, and London!!! Which is awesome news! The NFTA has never mentioned exact cities before. Just generalized saying they were looking into flights to Europe.

Also, they have adjust the plans the construction plans and adding more gates on the east wing? Which side is that?

jworks158 · Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:09 pm

from VS forever in the Boston thread

ROC - two way fight between Piedmont and B6 here, Piedmont has the upper hand with a 55/45 split in passengers, but both are seeming to co-exist happily here.

B6 BOS-ROC 460 46059 37708 81.9%
PT BOS-ROC 1198 59900 47883 79.9%

Buffalomatt1027 · Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:54 am

jworks158 wrote:
from VS forever in the Boston thread

ROC - two way fight between Piedmont and B6 here, Piedmont has the upper hand with a 55/45 split in passengers, but both are seeming to co-exist happily here.

B6 BOS-ROC 460 46059 37708 81.9%
PT BOS-ROC 1198 59900 47883 79.9%

Much better load% than BUF-BOS

tphuang · Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:25 am

Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
jworks158 wrote:
from VS forever in the Boston thread

ROC - two way fight between Piedmont and B6 here, Piedmont has the upper hand with a 55/45 split in passengers, but both are seeming to co-exist happily here.

B6 BOS-ROC 460 46059 37708 81.9%
PT BOS-ROC 1198 59900 47883 79.9%

Much better load% than BUF-BOS

unfortunately the yield for B6 is about the same on BOS-BUF/ROC. PT is a little bit higher but those 44 seaters have really high costs.

BUFJACK10 · Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:15 pm

Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
https://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/news/2019/11/23/why-a-fourth-luggage-carousel-matters-at-buffalo.html?ana=maz

NFTA said their is demand for direct flights to Paris, Dublin, and London!!! Which is awesome news! The NFTA has never mentioned exact cities before. Just generalized saying they were looking into flights to Europe.

Also, they have adjust the plans the construction plans and adding more gates on the east wing? Which side is that?

The East wing is the larger of the two without international gates. If you go to the BNIA website and look at the sustainable master plan dated 2013 (it probably changed since then) it gives illustrations of where they intended to add gates south of the east wing. Odd that they want to add gates at this stage when there are 5 or 6 unused gates now. Time and economic conditions will tell I imagine.

Buffalomatt1027 · Mon Nov 25, 2019 7:39 pm

BUFJACK10 wrote:
Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
https://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/news/2019/11/23/why-a-fourth-luggage-carousel-matters-at-buffalo.html?ana=maz

NFTA said their is demand for direct flights to Paris, Dublin, and London!!! Which is awesome news! The NFTA has never mentioned exact cities before. Just generalized saying they were looking into flights to Europe.

Also, they have adjust the plans the construction plans and adding more gates on the east wing? Which side is that?

The East wing is the larger of the two without international gates. If you go to the BNIA website and look at the sustainable master plan dated 2013 (it probably changed since then) it gives illustrations of where they intended to add gates south of the east wing. Odd that they want to add gates at this stage when there are 5 or 6 unused gates now. Time and economic conditions will tell I imagine.

All the gates are technically in use ...... but they dont have an airline that owns it or rents it. They actually have a lot of RON aircraft that park overnight too.

BatonOps · Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:11 pm

jworks158 wrote:
From the OAG thread:

**UA ELM-IAD JAN 2>0.3[0] FEB 2>0[0] MAR 2>0[0.1] APR 2>0[2] MAY 2>0[2] JUN 2>0[2] JUL 2>0[2] AUG 2>0[2]

Looks like UA is ending ELM-IAD service

UA has tried three different routes from ELM with no success. I doubt we will see them back there again.

It is good news for ITH as they near the opening of the expanded terminal.

Buffalomatt1027 · Thu Nov 28, 2019 2:36 pm

https://www.anna.aero/2019/10/11/top-20 ... caribbean/

Found this link interesting for BUF / ROC - San Juan and top unreserved routes. Both made the list. B6 would be smart to add a direct seasonal route to ATLEAST BUF based on this information. But as we all know, politicians basically begged B6 for BUF - LA route. The NFTA would have do to the same for San Juan.

WeatherPilot · Thu Nov 28, 2019 2:51 pm

Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
https://www.anna.aero/2019/10/11/top-20-unserved-routes-eastern-usa-to-the-caribbean/

Found this link interesting for BUF / ROC - San Juan and top unreserved routes. Both made the list. B6 would be smart to add a direct seasonal route to ATLEAST BUF based on this information. But as we all know, politicians basically begged B6 for BUF - LA route. The NFTA would have do to the same for San Juan.

How much would a direct BUF-SJU cannibalize B6's BUF-MCO/FLL routes though?

tphuang · Thu Nov 28, 2019 3:05 pm

WeatherPilot wrote:
Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
https://www.anna.aero/2019/10/11/top-20-unserved-routes-eastern-usa-to-the-caribbean/

Found this link interesting for BUF / ROC - San Juan and top unreserved routes. Both made the list. B6 would be smart to add a direct seasonal route to ATLEAST BUF based on this information. But as we all know, politicians basically begged B6 for BUF - LA route. The NFTA would have do to the same for San Juan.

How much would a direct BUF-SJU cannibalize B6's BUF-MCO/FLL routes though?

It will take a little from that, but they would also capture a lot of BUF-JFK/EWR/BOS/PHL/CLT/ATL/MIA-SJU. I seriously doubt B6 is winning all of that traffic right now.

jworks158 · Sat Dec 07, 2019 4:55 pm

I see the daily Kalitta Charters II to CVG-ROC-BDL-ROC-CVG is now 727-200 instead of the normal 737-400.

DCA-ROCguy · Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:43 pm

ROC is having issues getting its facial-recognition security camera system online. Airport director says he expects it to be ready in the first quarter of 2020.

Jim

https://www.democratandchronicle.com/st ... 619020001/

BUFJACK10 · Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:08 am

Interesting article in the Buffalo News today about the efforts of the NFTA to secure trans atlantic service form BUF.

it'll be interesting to see if their efforts pay off.

https://buffalonews.com/2019/12/22/effo ... ial-phase/

Buffalomatt1027 · Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:46 pm

BUFJACK10 wrote:
Interesting article in the Buffalo News today about the efforts of the NFTA to secure trans atlantic service form BUF.

it'll be interesting to see if their efforts pay off.

https://buffalonews.com/2019/12/22/effo ... ial-phase/

I am sure the 388,000 is an educated guess ..... that go to Toronto or JFK to fly over to Europe. But overall it definitely seems like they want trans Atlantic service by the time the new updates are completed. But if that amount of people is anywhere close, they could definitely get a flight every couple days to Europe. Probly not daily.

very interesting to see what airline they lure over here. I mean we do have Niagara Falls. That helps.

SQ22 · Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:20 pm

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